Daum:
If you notice I am only talking about the Ogiso Ere issue you brought up. You believe everyone here has time to argue on this forum like you. There is nothing to gain from it. Yes I have read several books. I spent my undergraduate holidays at the Benin Institute just behind the Oba Palace in Benin reading books. I have read history books at the University Library in Uniben and the one in Sapele road. I have read so many online materials also. I have been to Villages and I have sat down and listened to old people with no formal education tell stories about Ikaladehran way back as far as 2008 even before I entered this forum.

I have nothing to gain arguing with you.
Enjoy yourself

Did you read only Izoduwa fiction coined in the 1970s by strange elements who aren’t even historians to begin with; or did you expanded your horizons to what historians have to say about that fiction?

Etinosa1234:


Bro help ur self

Search the book on google books

U can’t be able to download it tho but u can search keywords from the quote she put out as coming from Dmitri bodarenko
Try searching "the third ogiso"

I just did and I didn’t find anything as the third ogiso came from ife as she put it

She’s just dishing out lies

What she quoted is not in the book

Etinosa u are noted tu gha tu to mwen a saka

the book she is talking about is what I have known very well with time but u see the third ogiso is "Orire"

weather she quotes lies that is not my concern but I know my history and where am from and with God's grace am a half descendant of the great "Ogierunmwanbo N Oka" from my maternal angle and am a descendant of the Enogie of Ute in Orhionmwon LGA whose son was Udugbamen
and my morning greeting is Lagite I.e "Egite no rhien mwen vbe gbe hia".
so every body should know their history and stop claiming seniority over another although it's undeniable that in the 16 century Benin empire was unstoppable but we still respect the dignity of various tribes that was in the empire during it glory days by still appointing various person from various tribes into office in the palace till date.
for me the problem we have in Nigeria is tribalism and it has eaten deep into the nation fabric.

it is time historians start to study not for tribal benefit but to harness the cultural potential of the various tribes in Nigeria and see the country to a greater height because this nation is really blessed culturally.

love live FRN

SIGN OUT AND PEN DOWN .

see u when I come back ����

TAO11:
I know, just as everyone else knows, that you’re lying to yourself just to pat him and yourself.

But here’s a link to Bondarenko’s paper (p.54) which I cited.

https://www.socionauki.ru/journal/files/seh/2015_2/046-076.pdf

I normally don’t like doing this link thing because others take advantage of that to post links through which they may access ones devices.

I actually expect that adults will be able to use their computers/phones efficiently to find references by themselves.

Probably wonderful
The link u posted says that the Ogiso was not really a dynasty
The remaining 20 ogisos were in no way related to the other...
And it didn't attribute the Ada and eben to Ogiso ere
It also posted that there were not historical evidence

Apparently ur proof isn't proof enough

Etinosa1234:


Probably wonderful
The link u posted says that the Ogiso was not really a dynasty
The remaining 20 ogisos were in no way related to the other...
And it didn't attribute the Ada and eben to Ogiso ere
It also posted that there were not historical evidence

Apparently ur proof isn't proof enough

I really decided to come back because of this

this part is absolutely right that most of the ogiso were not related but the were chosen in form of odionwere in some case and they were also selected base on the strangest.

so majority of the ogiso were not related please take note please.

Etinosa1234:
Probably wonderful

Benin people and the word “probably“. Is that the latest in Edo state?

The link u posted says that the Ogiso was not really a dynasty

You probably think you have an argument because you have no clue what a dynasty is.

A dynasty is one in which the rulers are from the same line of [patriarchal] descent.

So they aren’t descended from one another — And so fu**ing what!?

How does this help the argument you should be defending.

You probably want to be seen by your people as saying something — whether reasonable or unreasonable.

The remaining 20 ogisos were in no way related to the other...

And so fu**ing what again!?

Again, how does this help the argument you should be defending and how does this take from mine ??

Moreover, how did you fail to see the difference between the phrase first 3 Ogisos and the phrase last 20 Ogisos which you’ve irrelevantly brought up ??

Wait, do Binis really have a genuine problem with numbers ??

And it didn't attribute the Ada and eben to Ogiso ere.

Apparently ur proof isn't proof enough

You must have been following the comments from the back of your phone.

Nowhere did I quote that paper to have even mentioned the word “Ada”. I never did.

So, stop pretending that the paper attributed “Ada” to someone else. It never even mentioned the word “Ada” anywhere let alone attribute its origin in Benin to someone else.

The beginning and end of my quotation of this paper is as seen in the screenshot attached below. See link if you want to be sure:

https://www.nairaland.com/6013716/why-does-ooni-ife-make#93935979

The issue of “Ada” came up because your brother maintains that Ogiso Ere introduced the “Ada” to ‘Benin’.

And I cited this paper as seen attached below to show that even if that’s the case Ogiso Ere is an emissary from Ife.

Sighs! One really have to break it down for these Bini dullards.


But I’m glad that you ate back your lie that Bondarenko didn’t mention Ife as the origin of the first three Ogisos.

Etrusen:



let me ask you but I don't know if you understand edo language but u should think it through yourself by trying with this

ovbi _child
Ada _ the curved sword
Ovbi _ child
Eben _ the pointed one

please where is owner there ? I don't know where u got owner from because owner in Benin is "na rhien" but i can't see it there or any other added words there

personally I know that praise you are talking about because I have been to the palace more than 4 times especially during coronation I was also at Usama palace where the Oba was crown

Usama palace was the first palace built in oronmiyans period and oronmiyan administration was done there up till Oba Ewedo ascended the throne

when it come to Benin words and meaning or history and even adage, it is in my blood and devotion. I personally have carried Edo study from almost all my life. most of the interpretation u give I just look at it and laugh and sometimes I don't feel like replying because I know u are not Benin

so madam let just leave Benin because it's more than what the ordinary person out there think it is ��

and respect for your time.

Stop saying rubbish which oromiyan, oga stop this nonsens

Leave TAO11 and face me

Stop adding oromiyan to our history


Face me lets debate on the validity of oromiyan, if indeed he existed

If he existed and you win i go leave culture thread for you


Nonsense oromiyan which oromiyan


You be yoruba man

Hahaha! Clash of Benin maggots, interesting!

TAO11:
Hahaha! Clash of Benin maggots, interesting!

���
this gregyboy is not a Benin guy I ask him question using Benin but he could not reply but areafada and happen to be that areafada is a product from Oba loins "Lamogun"

I bet to ask gregyboy 10 questions face to face and he will fail.

TAO11:
Tinubu laughed because you made a claim but you insisted that it isn’t you who must prove it.

Anyways, the ancient Ada is called Ada Eledishi, and there is an ancient granite monument immortalizing it in Ife.

The attached is a reference to it from Professor S.P. Blier’s “Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife, History, Power and Identity, c.1300”, 2012, p.407.

TAO11 And proves are 5&6

TAO11:
Did you read only Izoduwa fiction coined in the 1970s by strange elements who aren’t even historians to begin with; or did you expanded your horizons to what historians have to say about that fiction?

The old man who told me about Izoduwa is dead now. He barely spoke pidgin. He was not formally educated. He told me this story in a village called Evboesi in Ohrionmwon. Evboesi is more closer to Abraka in Delta state than it is to Benin city. So this old man never read any history books and there was no press conference way back in 70s. These were folklores that were passed down from father to children.


Whatever Europeans wrote about us was what they heard from us or observed when they came to us. But it doesn't change the fact that they still can't know the history of our people better than us.

Etrusen:



���
this gregyboy is not a Benin guy I ask him question using Benin but he could not reply but areafada and happen to be that areafada is a product from Oba loins "Lamogun"

I bet to ask gregyboy 10 questions face to face and he will fail.

U need not to ask me, face to face ask me here

Daum:
The old man who told me about Izoduwa is dead now. He barely spoke pidgin. He was not formally educated. He told me this story in a village called Evboesi in Ohrionmwon. Evboesi is more closer to Abraka in Delta state than it is to Benin city. So this old man never read any history books and there was no press conference way back in 70s. These were folklores that were passed down from father to children.

Lol. The Izoduwa fiction was published in the early 1970s in four different Benin newspaper publications.

And I’m certain that the so-called illiterate Old man (who may be another product of fiction) doesn’t live in isolation from humans.

Moreover, the fictional Izoduwa story was officially pronounced to the Edo public during the coronation of the incoming Omo n’Oba Erediauwa.

Whatever Europeans wrote about us was what they heard from us or observed when they came to us. But it doesn't change the fact that they still can't know the history of our people better than us.

But at least the ones they’ve collected already before your old man was born can not be uncollected or erased by any modern-day fiction.

The fictional Izoduwa story is a modern day fraudulent extension of the genuine ancient Benin account of Ekaladerhan.

The Benin account of Ekaladerhan was already frozen in writing since the year 1903 or earlier — see H.L. Roth 1903, p.53-54.

And the story makes it clear that Ekaladerhan fled Benin as a result of a scandal. He eventually founded a kingdom in Ughoton.

He defeated the Benin army sent against him. And was eventually allowed to have his independent sovereignty in his new kingdom. The only clause, however, was that he wasn’t allowed to step foot in Benin again.

This is the ancient story as documented from early times. Egharevba came on board in the 1930s and independently collected exactly the same accounts, about Ekalderhan, from the Binis — and he named his sources and informants whom Bradbury said have all grown to maturity before 1897.

So, why should the world remain silent if some fraudulent and insecure nincompoop come on board in the 70s to tell us that Ekalderhan became a certain Izoduwa (or Idoduwa or Imadoduwa, etc.) and then fled Ughoton to Ife ??

Hello!! We have read the actual story already since some 70 years ago, and now over 100 years ago.

The funny part of the whole fraud is that when these amateurs were asked to name their informants — they simply scratched their heads.

Don’t even get me started with your simplistic thinking.

SaintBeehot:
TAO11 And proves are 5&6

It’s not my fault.

I wish I could see blatant lies being fed to the people and I should just look away.

But my body won’t allow me.

This is an excerpt from Robert Smith's Kingdom of the Yoruba
_{While northern and western Yorubaland contended with invasion from the Fulani and Dahomeans, the kingdoms of the East were suffering from the renewal of Benin Westward expansion. this apparently began in the early years of the 19th century during the reign of Oba obanosa. First part of Owo kingdom was brought under the obedience of Benin.Then in the reign of Oba osemwede, Akure was reconquered and Ekiti overrun. The Benin forces at a time established a base at Otun and installed a new Deji to watch over the interest of the ekiti colony}
Sources Oguntuyi pp36-41, S.Johnson(1921)pp 390-1, S. Johnson(1921) pp455, R. L and J. Lander(1832)p315

Also do ur research on Deji osupa be4 coming online to be blatantly lieing Tao11
Etrusen
Gregyboy
Areafada2
Coded2

For some reason.. bots keep banning me if I quote Tao11

Well abt ur feeble minded claims that Benin never conquered Akure

See the pics below...
. It was Posted by u

Coded2

Etrusen:



���
this gregyboy is not a Benin guy I ask him question using Benin but he could not reply but areafada and happen to be that areafada is a product from Oba loins "Lamogun"

I bet to ask gregyboy 10 questions face to face and he will fail.

And you are not benin

TAO11.. this are the reports of the first invasion

Etinosa123456:
BH

Etinosa123456:
This is an excerpt from Robert Smith's Kingdom of the Yoruba
_{While northern and western Yorubaland contended with invasion from the Fulani and Dahomeans, the kingdoms of the East were suffering from the renewal of Benin Westward expansion. this apparently began in the early years of the 19th century during the reign of Oba obanosa. First part of Owo kingdom was brought under the obedience of Benin.Then in the reign of Oba osemwede, Akure was reconquered and Ekiti overrun. The Benin forces at a time established a base at Otun and installed a new Deji to watch over the interest of the ekiti colony}
Sources Oguntuyi pp36-41, S.Johnson(1921)pp 390-1, S. Johnson(1921) pp455, R. L and J. Lander(1832)p315

Also do ur research on Deji osupa be4 coming online to be blatantly lieing Tao11
Etrusen
Gregyboy
Areafada2

You keep running away from one flogging to another flogging. You’ve left Ada after the disgrace and cling to Ekiti, etc. Na still flogging go end am.

Now to this, I never claimed there wasn’t any such account in circulation.

My argument, if you haven’t been reading from the back of your phone, was clearly that:

These accounts emanate originally from Benin itself; became popularized by early European writers starting from Dapper, 1600s; but are never corroborated by the accounts from these particular kingdoms themselves, viz. Owo, Akure or Ekiti, etc.

Every bit of your comment shows that you’ve been following this thread from the back of your phone.

Desperate sad kid, aka Etinosa.

Daum:


The old man who told me about Izoduwa is dead now. He barely spoke pidgin. He was not formally educated. He told me this story in a village called Evboesi in Ohrionmwon. Evboesi is more closer to Abraka in Delta state than it is to Benin city. So this old man never read any history books and there was no press conference way back in 70s. These were folklores that were passed down from father to children.


Whatever Europeans wrote about us was what they heard from us or observed when they came to us. But it doesn't change the fact that they still can't know the history of our people better than us.

And how did he narrate izoduwa history, repeat it the way he said it, dont add you own explanation

Dont put ife were he said uhe just narrate exactly how he told it,

Our history needs to be put on research

TAO11:


You keep running away from one flogging to another flogging.

You’ve left the Ada after the disgrace.

Now to this, I never claimed there wasn’t any such account in circulation.

My argument was clearly that these accounts emanate originally from Benin itself; became popularized by early European writers starting from Dapper, 1600s; but are never corroborated by the accounts from these particular kingdoms themselves, viz. Owo, Akure or Ekiti, etc.

Every bit of your comment shows that you’ve been following this thread from the back of your phone.

Desperate sad kid, aka Etinosa.

U talk at times like someone without brain... Do u want to tell me that the history of yoruba wasn't popularised by Yoruba pple...

The Benin pple told them what happened at that time.. and u are saying it's False but u still believe Eweka came directly from Ife because the same Benin people said it.. is foolishness not worrying u like this?

And if perhaps, the reports were false,.. Is Oguntuyi a Benin man?
Or does Samuel Johnson come from Benin.. why didn't they counter it...

Once I catch u , u'll jump to the next goalposts

gregyboy:
And how did he narrate izoduwa history, repeat it the way he said it, dont add you own explanation

Dont put ife were he said uhe just narrate exactly how he told it,

Our history needs to be put on research

Hahaha “Don’t put Ife where he said Uhe” he said.


@gregyboy is it true that your lineage is a fake Edo lineage after all??

Someone said that — cc: Etrusen

TAO11:


You keep running away from one flogging to another flogging.

You’ve left the Ada after the disgrace.

Now to this, I never claimed there wasn’t any such account in circulation.

My argument was clearly that these accounts emanate originally from Benin itself; became popularized by early European writers starting from Dapper, 1600s; but are never corroborated by the accounts from these particular kingdoms themselves, viz. Owo, Akure or Ekiti, etc.

Every bit of your comment shows that you’ve been following this thread from the back of your phone.

Desperate sad kid, aka Etinosa.

TAO11 am still waiting for your evidence

I hope you havnt forgetting

My benins brothers are disturbing you from my assignment, but find spare time to reply me,


Am currently reading the debate i promise not to interfere

TAO11:
Hahaha Don’t put Ife where he said Uhe.


@gregyboy is it true that your lineage is even a fake Rdo lineage after all??

Someone said that — cc: Etrusen

You really want to do this,


Am asking do you want me to interfere.... Watch your mouth i i didnt come for you i came for my edo brothers


I have wasted you enough.....

Anyway i am still waiting for my evidence

My edo brother would not let you be with their ogiso moonlight tales

Etinosa123456:
U talk at times like someone without brain... Do u want to tell me that the history of yoruba wasn't popularised by Yoruba pple...

If it has to do with conquest for example, historians examine such statements in the light of the account of the specific people that are said to have been conquered.

Historians won’t just accept the statement just because the Yorubas said it.

Oyo accounts claim to have conquered and controlled Dahomey. Historians won’t merely accept it as historical fact just because Oyo said that — especially when their are some element of inconsistencies.

No, the Europeans would examine the accounts of the Dahomey people themselves — and in this case an early written eyewitness account from Dahomey confirms the independent traditional account of Oyo.

In the case of Benin and the Eastern Yoruba kingdoms on the other hand, there is no such corroboration — hence the Benin traditional is just jonxing as usual.

The Benin pple told them what happened at that time.. and u are saying it's False but u still believe Eweka came directly from Ife because the same Benin people said it.. is foolishness not worrying u like this?

First of all, point out where I believed Eweka came from Ife. Like I always flog you on this, that is your problem and your fathers’ problems.

Similarly in this case, your Benin claim of conquest of eastern Yoruba kingdom is null and void because it is not corroborated from the actual kingdoms you all claim to rule.

I can’t even remember any Ogie, Ogiamien, Ogiame, Orodje, Ovie, Onojie, etc. as ruler of any of the eastern Yoruba territories.

I guess the Benin king actually owns the land from Benin to Europe because the Binis said that.

And if perhaps, the reports were false,.. Is Oguntuyi a Benin man?
Or does Samuel Johnson come from Benin.. why didn't they counter it...

Once I catch u , u'll jump to the next goalposts

Oguntuyi, Johnson, Lander documented popular accounts which they never claimed to have collected from Owo, Ekiti, etc.

If you’ve been following my comment from the from the front of your phone, you would have noticed that I stated clearly that the earliest sources for this account was Dapper, 1600 — obviously earlier than the earliest of your references.

Dapper was relating accounts collected from Benin. Sighs are you that slow.

gregyboy:
[s]You really want to do this,

Am asking do you want me to interfere.... Watch your mouth i i didnt come for you i came for my edo brothers

I have wasted you enough.....

Anyway i am still waiting for my evidence

My edo brother would not let you be with their ogiso moonlight tales[/s]

This boy just makes me laugh hard. I think I have not only rendered you a Nairaland nuisance. I have also gotten you deluded.

I wrote the following to you yesterday in the hope that something up there would reset. Nothing happened unfortunately:

“You appear very disturbed by my refutations.

Listen up dingbat, stop making your regular face-saving dullard requests to me.

I’ve cited you a reference to a peer-review journal by Robin Horton (1979:86) where the finds were clearly acknowledged. And he also referenced works wherein the images were published.

So, why must any sane person need a picture of your brain in order to realize that you have some lump of fat up there — even when the doctor’s report clearly said so ??

Wait, are you planning to mastur6ate to the pictures and cvm for them or something ??

Stop disgracing your family I warned”.

Etinosa123456:
This is an excerpt from Robert Smith's Kingdom of the Yoruba
_{While northern and western Yorubaland contended with invasion from the Fulani and Dahomeans, the kingdoms of the East were suffering from the renewal of Benin Westward expansion. this apparently began in the early years of the 19th century during the reign of Oba obanosa. First part of Owo kingdom was brought under the obedience of Benin.Then in the reign of Oba osemwede, Akure was reconquered and Ekiti overrun. The Benin forces at a time established a base at Otun and installed a new Deji to watch over the interest of the ekiti colony}
Sources Oguntuyi pp36-41, S.Johnson(1921)pp 390-1, S. Johnson(1921) pp455, R. L and J. Lander(1832)p315

Also do ur research on Deji osupa be4 coming online to be blatantly lieing Tao11
Etrusen
Gregyboy
Areafada2
Coded2

Tao Tao ... Always lieing... Goan read abt the deji osupa....
My excerpt above stated that Benin installed a new Deji but u are blind as usual to see it...not surprising tho

TAO12:
If it has to do with conquest for example, historians examine such statements in the light of the account of the specific people that are said to have been conquered.

Historians won’t just accept the statement just because the Yorubas said it.

Oyo accounts claim to have conquered and controlled Dahomey. Historians won’t merely accept it as historical fact just because Oyo said that — especially when their are some element of inconsistencies.

No, the Europeans would examine the accounts of the Dahomey people themselves — and in this case an early written eyewitness account from Dahomey confirms the independent traditional account of Oyo.

In the case of Benin and the Eastern Yoruba kingdoms on the other hand, there is no such corroboration — hence the Benin traditional is just jonxing as usual.

First of all, point out where I believed Eweka came from Ife. Like I always flog you on this, that is your problem and your fathers’ problems.

Similarly in this case, your Benin claim of conquest of eastern Yoruba kingdom is null and void because it is not corroborated from the actual kingdoms you all claim to rule.

I can’t even remember any Ogie, Ogiamien, Ogiame, Orodje, Ovie, Onojie, etc. as ruler of any of the eastern Yoruba territories.

I guess the Benin king actually owns the land from Benin to Europe because the Binis said that.

Oguntuyi, Johnson, Lander documented popular accounts which they never claimed to have collected from Owo, Ekiti, etc.

If you’ve been following my comment from the from the front of your phone, you would have noticed that I stated clearly that the earliest sources for this account was Dapper, 1600 — obviously earlier than the earliest of your references.

Dapper was relating accounts collected from Benin. Sighs are you that slow.

Mumu...I should poi

Etinosa123456:

Tao Tao ... Always lieing... Goan read abt the deji osupa....
My excerpt above stated that Benin installed a new Deji but u are blind as usual to see it...not surprising tho

Mumu...I should poi

When the debate is lost, just call the interlocutor a lair, and say you don’t have to present your evidence unless the interlocutor goes to find your evidence for you. Is this the technique you’ve resorted to in shame??


My argument is that, your references are based on early one-sided account which emanate originally from Benin via Olfert Dapper in the 1600s.

The actual kingdoms being discussed do not corroborate such one-sided grandiose account.

If anything of such nature was true, they would gladly embrace the Benin part of their heritage just as the Itsekiri-Yorubas do.

Lol... The fact that your Yoruba historians were to document them, that shows that they were true...

The second pic was posted by u... Obviously the books u post, u don't believe them

Ur Claims that because it emanated from Dapper is not true because according to what u posted it states that Dapper was an eyewitness ... This therefore trashes the cry of wanting to hear from the other party

The fact that u posted this means that u believed it as true..... Despite the contradicting reports eso from Yoruba history that oranmiyan came instead of ife

Tao11