MistadeRegal:


Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

No, which prophet prophesied that?

Read Amos3 :7..you will understand my query.

sonmvayina:


No, which prophet prophesied that?

Read Amos3 :7..you will understand my query.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

WizzyVine:




Freewill means they had a choice. They could do whatever they wanted. When I said they could only do good, I meant, they preferred only one choice - to do good.

The thought of doing evil never crossed their minds, they only wanted to do good. However, after eating the fruit, they started having thoughts of doing evil as well.

They disobeyed because they chose to. They had the free will to disobey or to obey. They chose to disobey. [quote] That disobedience now brought them the will to do good and evil. Whereas, before now, they were only willing to do good, and thought of doing good always.

You keep contradicting yourself my friend.
Where do you belong na?
First they were only willing to do good, later they were willing to do good and bad.

How can they be willing to do good when it is stated clearly that it is the fruit that contains the knowledge of good and evil?

And if they had always thought of doing good (according to you), where did the knowledge of disobeying God now come from?

Note: The knowledge of good and evil here means, the knowledge of being nice and being wicked.

Why do you want to change the meaning na?
Being nice and wicked ko.
So disobedience isn't Wickedness in the sight of God?

MistadeRegal:


Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Virgin?.. Really but Isaiah was talking about his wife that he impregnated.. The son in question is Isaiah’s...
Start reading from verse 1, you will get the context of the story..
The son was an assurance for king Ahaz, that the two king plotting against him will not succeed. The Oracle from Isaiah was for king Ahaz.. Before the child know how to choose the good and reject evil the two kingdoms will be no more.. So my friend how does it refer to Jesus.??

You know how I know the son belongs to Isaiah? Read 8:18..."i and the sons the lord has given me, we are for signs and potent for the.... "

MistadeRegal:


There is already a word spoken to the tree to bring death upon them. Though beguiled by the serpent, but their decision brought the evil that came with the disobedience.

I asked a question.

So they knew good and bad after eating the fruit? Yes or no?

OtemAtum:
I am not even in support of the freewill and tales by moonlight fruit of the bible. I am just trying to express Jehovah's excuses for sending fictitious Adam Sapiens and Eve Sapiens as inconsequential and unreasonable excuses. There is no fruit we eat to make us have knowledge, no, not in this homosapiens era. It's just a fable. We are born to gain knowledge by experience, or in rare occasions by revelations. Not by eating one fruit or the other.

True.. It is just a recast of an earlier Babylonian epic about Adapa.. How he lost or forfeited the chance to live indefinitely on earth... Adam means man and Eve means woman..

In the original tale, it was Enki who told him not to eat the food, not knowing it is the food that will grant him immortality... The Serpent of the good tree was ninghishzda and the serpent of the evil tree was dimuzi..

kingxsamz:

You can choose what you believe.

You can choose your interpretations.

If they couldn't disobey, then they had no freewill...but we all know that, the reverse is the case.

Disobedience is wickedness in God's sight... but in the context of the Eden events, the knowledge of good and evil follows only after eating the fruit. Not before. Mind you, this not not mean they do not know about the existence or the tendency to do evil before eating the fruit.

There are no contradictions, only if you allow your interpretations to get in the way.

I reiterate: Before eating the fruit, they had the power of choice. That's freewill. They chose to do good only, also by their freewill. They were in a state of mind where they only thought good and had a distaste for evil. They knew evil exists but had no taste for it because they didn't entertain evil thoughts in their minds.

The forbidden fruit opened them up to evil thoughts and a taste for it. It weakened their ability to do good, while empowering them to do wickedness.

Now, all actions are products of thought. There are many things you could do but you wouldn't do them if you never thought of them. Not thinking about those things does not imply that you are unaware of their existence.

When you become born again and begin to grow in Christ, you'll notice a gradual departure from the norm. You'll start loving to do good while hating to do evil.

You'll begin to have distaste for immorality, drunkenness, smoking, partying which you enjoyed before. Though, in the fallen state, you could still find yourself doing things that you don't love doing anymore. Your body wants them but your spirit hates them. Each time you do it, you feel very bad about it, whereas before now, you boast and rejoice in them.

You still have a choice to do either good or evil, but you will only do what your thoughts dwell on. The forbidden fruit inundated man with much evil thoughts and created the wicked world we now live in.

WizzyVine:


You can choose what you believe.

You can choose your interpretations.

If they couldn't disobey, then they had no freewill...but we all know that, the reverse is the case.

Disobedience is wickedness in God's sight... but in the context of the Eden events, the knowledge of good and evil follows only after eating the fruit. Not before. Mind you, this not not mean they do not know about the existence or the tendency to do evil before eating the fruit.

There are no contradictions, only if you allow your interpretations to get in the way.

I reiterate: Before eating the fruit, they had the power of choice. That's freewill. They chose to do good only, also by their freewill. They were in a state of mind where they only thought good and had a distaste for evil. They knew evil exists but had no taste for it because they didn't entertain evil thoughts in their minds.

Oga, you're beginning to go out of context from what was written in that book. You're coming up with your own meaning and contradicting yourself on top of it.
You said they were in a state to do only good.
So how did they disobey?
You said the knowledge of good and evil comes only after eating the fruit, and at the same time you're saying they knew evil existed? Why are you contradicting yourself? Do I have to tell you what knowledge means?

Abeg, no need to defend it if you keep contradicting yourself.

MistadeRegal:
Since the time man sinned against GOD in disobeying GOD by eating the fruit of the forbidden tree of knowledge of good and evil, sin entered into the fountain of man because all these descendants came from Adam.

Observing closely, when Eve first ate the fruit, her eyes were not yet opened, but as soon as Adam ate it, the eyes of both of them were opened, cleared, understanding came to them and they knew they were naked instantly. Why? Because Eve was made out of Adam. Immediately the fountain was corrupted, they both became corrupt.

And before that, GOD had spoken upon that tree that if they should eat the tree, they will surely die. But they have never experienced nor witnessed death or dying before, so they just kept to it till Eve was beguiled.

Now, since man disobeyed GOD and sin came upon man, the word that GOD had spoken upon the tree that they will die, instantly came up activated. Preparing to kill them but not instantly. So, sin got into man and death followed. (Though from the beginning, GOD made man perfect)

Now, sin and the consequence of disobeying GOD is upon man. And to remove this sin and its consequence, blood was required as blood is life.
In those days, GOD commanded them to use the blood of rams, goats, bulls etc. But this does not last as it is required to carry a continuous process of sacrificing.

These goes on for a period of time. They sacrificed several animals and it was a continuous process. It came to a time that GOD told them He is not interested in their sacrifices. But that He will send his BRANCH who will come and they will be taught of the LORD.

Now, they believed the prophecy and waited for long for the Messiah to come. Indeed, they were expecting the Messiah but when the Messiah came, they never knew.
But since they never repented of their sins still, GOD decided to remove this world and create another one and that when the time comes, He will terminate this current world and make another replace it forever.

To stop these animal sacrificing for atonement, blood is still required. And since all men have been defiled by sins they committed, none of them was pure and holy enough to be used as the ultimate sacrifice.
**1
This is why GOD had to send His Word, a personality in GOD Himself like when you say something should be done and that what you said got it done.

Now, the Word came into the world, clothed in flesh but no man knew him because instead of descending as a mighty man, He came as someone not recognizable. They saw Him as a nobody because they couldn't understand who He really was at that time.

Now, before JESUS CHRIST died, He had told His disciples that He will be going to Jerusalem to be delivered to the hands of sinners that they might kill Him and He will rise again on the third day. He went indeed, even the Word of GOD went to Jerusalem where He was taken and eventually killed.

They killed Him thinking they did for envy and hatred but never knew the prophecy has been fulfilled.
They no longer need to offer any animal as sacrifices anymore because the blood of who had been shed, a blood most precious.

**2)
Since no man was qualified, neither by holiness...nor any virtue, GOD sent His Word, a personality in GOD. Who was humiliated and later killed.
Now, the Word had done that sacrifice using the body provided for Him as a human instead of rams, bulls, goats etc because GOD will not use any human as sacrifice.

Now, the warning is that since GOD is going to terminate this world, He laid it down that whosoever shall believe on the Word whom He the FATHER has sent will not be added to the things He will not be needing in the new earth but will burn such up with eternal fire.

This is why we have been telling you to believe and accept Him that you might not get added to those things He will not be needing in the new earth. Which is the Kingdom of Heaven.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John:1:1-5,9-12,14
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
John:1:17

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John:3:15-19,33-36

*1)
Joh17:17, your (God's) Word is NOT "the Word" of Joh1:1
Jesus is NOT a speech, or command spoken by God.(CONTRARY to Trinitarians FALSE claims)

Hebrews 1:1-2, John 15:15. John 7:16 The Word is his Father's spokesman, teaching, preaching what his Father taught him (Jesus) in heaven.

Bros, Shine your eyes , know the difference and RECEIVE SENSE.


(**2)
Matthew 27:46, your Triune Gods sacrificed himself and lamented to himself "my God,my God, why have both of you forsaken me?

Bros, you are indirectly claiming on this public forum that John 3:16 and Romans 8:3 is not correct
Bros, issorite!!

Janosky:

*1)
Joh17:17, your (God's) Word is NOT "the Word" of Joh1:1
Jesus is NOT a speech, or command spoken by God.(CONTRARY to Trinitarians FALSE claims)

Hebrews 1:1-2, John 15:15. John 7:16 The Word is his Father's spokesman, teaching, preaching what his Father taught him (Jesus) in heaven.

Bros, Shine your eyes , know the difference and RECEIVE SENSE.


(**2)
Matthew 27:46, your Triune Gods sacrificed himself and lamented to himself "my God,my God, why have both of you forsaken me?

Bros, you are indirectly claiming on this public forum that John 3:16 and Romans 8:3 is not correct
Bros, issorite!!

John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Revelation 19:11-16 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

kingxsamz:




Oga, you're beginning to go out of context from what was written in that book. You're coming up with your own meaning and contradicting yourself on top of it.
You said they were in a state to do only good.
So how did they disobey?
You said the knowledge of good and evil comes only after eating the fruit, and at the same time you're saying they knew evil existed? Why are you contradicting yourself? Do I have to tell you what knowledge means?

Abeg, no need to defend it if you keep contradicting yourself.

The knowledge that something exists is still different from the knowledge of what you can do with it.

WizzyVine:


The knowledge that something exists is still different from the knowledge of what you can do with it.

Abeg go jor
Shey you want to come up with your own bible?
Simple knowledge of good and evil you're changing the meaning.
No need to drag this further abeg, you can't defend it.

kingxsamz:


Abeg go jor
Shey you want to come up with your own bible?
Simple knowledge of good and evil you're changing the meaning.
No need to drag this further abeg, you can't defend it.

Whatever you think the Bible says does not change what the Bible really says. Everyone can interpret the Bible the way he or she likes, but what the word says still stands, no matter the interpretation given to it by the majority.

Do you know the difference between knowledge and revelation?

kingxsamz:
Wait o...
If Adam and Eve did bad by eating the fruit, why did god now punish them since they never had the knowledge of good and bad?
How would they have known that disobeying God by eating the fruit would be bad since they can't tell good from bad?

One doesn't need to know or have a previous experience of the full consequences of their action before obeying an instruction.

All they had to do was obey since they knew no better.

WizzyVine:


Whatever you think the Bible says does not change what the Bible really says. Everyone can interpret the Bible the way he or she likes, but what the word says still stands, no matter the interpretation given to it by the majority.

Do you know the difference between knowledge and revelation?

You're confusing yourself and only yourself.
So anyone can interpret the bible the way they like right? I thought God is not an author of confusion. so why is everyone giving different meaning to the one that suits them?

Simple logic will let you know that this book was written by men, inspired by men and only men. I mean, I just showed you a contradiction in the story, and you're changing the meaning of the entire verse.

missjo:

One doesn't need to know or have a previous experience of the full consequences of their action before obeying an instruction.

All they had to do was obey since they knew no better.

so did they know that eating the apple was bad?

kingxsamz:


You're confusing yourself and only yourself.
So anyone can interpret the bible the way they like right? I thought God is not an author of confusion. so why is everyone giving different meaning to the one that suits them?

Simple logic will let you know that this book was written by men, inspired by men and only men. I mean, I just showed you a contradiction in the story, and you're changing the meaning of the entire verse.

Since you are obstinately determined to subscribe only to your own views, I leave you to your thoughts.

No need arguing on matters that have a clear end. At the end of time, when we shall all stand to give accounts of our lives to the One who created the universe, everyone's fate shall be well-deserved.

Keep riding in your couch while I ride mine, we shall all meet someday on the shores before the throne. We aren't sent to force the truth on anyone.

WizzyVine:


Since you are obstinately determined to subscribe only to your own views, I leave you to your thoughts.

No need arguing on matters that have a clear end. At the end of time, when we shall all stand to give accounts of our lives to the One who created the universe, everyone's fate shall be well-deserved.

Keep riding in your couch while I ride mine, we shall all meet someday on the shores before the throne. We aren't sent to force the truth on anyone.

Speak for yourself please.
We are not meeting anywhere.
I'm not expecting to see some bearded white man dressed in white robe, seated on a throne.
That story is like Santa Claus, but for adults.

kingxsamz:


Speak for yourself please.
We are not meeting anywhere.
I'm not expecting to see some bearded white man dressed in white robe, seated on a throne.
That story is like Santa Claus, but for adults.

Okay. My apologies. Time will tell.

WizzyVine:


Permit me to answer you question even though it was not directed to me.

Man was created with a freewill. Freewill in simple terms is ability to make a choice. So, from the beginning Adam and Eve could choose what they wanted to do.

They were created with the ability live in obedience and so they initially chose to do so until Eve made a choice to reject God's commands and embrace the advice of the serpent.

Obeying God was a choice within their capacity, likewise, disobeying God was also something they could do. In the long run, they fell for the wrong choice.

Before eating the fruit, they could only do good and only good. After eating it, they could now do good and evil. The result was that Cain killed Abel, and today, man loves to do evil than to do good- an adverse effect of the fruit that Adam ate.

So they could only do good before eating the fruit abi. Do you mean posing nude is good, because according to the tales, it was after they ate the fruit that they started feeling the need not to pose nude

OtemAtum:
So they could only do good before eating the fruit abi. Do you mean posing nude is good, because according to the tales, it was after they ate the fruit that they started feeling the need not to pose nude

The Bible made us understand that they were clothed with God's Glory. Their nudity was not exposed. The Glory departed when they are the fruit.

They afterwards sowed themselves leaves as aprons, God in His mercy eventually clothed them with animal skin.

WizzyVine:


The Bible made us understand that they were clothed with God's Glory. Their nudity was not exposed. The Glory departed when they are the fruit.

They afterwards sowed themselves leaves as aprons, God in His mercy eventually clothed them with animal skin.

lol at posed with glory

The question is why is that vile fruit there in the first place

kingxsamz:
Whether what it did was good or bad, whatever happens, the creator is to blame. To even top that, the Christian god is omniscient.
So?

Again, the creator already determined the system in great shape, and the system was able to properly respond and earned a quality rating of "GOOD" after the tests were completed. Only the system, later on, decided to disobey remembering that you operate in a reality where error is the norm for you now. But remember, the original man came from a reality where error is not the norm.

OtemAtum:
I am not even in support of the freewill and tales by moonlight fruit of the bible. I am just trying to express Jehovah's excuses for sending fictitious Adam Sapiens and Eve Sapiens as inconsequential and unreasonable excuses. There is no fruit we eat to make us have knowledge, no, not in this homosapiens era. It's just a fable. We are born to gain knowledge by experience, or in rare occasions by revelations. Not by eating one fruit or the other.

It does not matter what you believe here. You pretended you had answers to the question posed, and that is what matters here.