MinorityOpinion:


Read it finish before conclusion. Point out where ogane is igbo King. Bring it here bro

What happen to Nri kingdom? Why is it not relevant today? Why did Benin disconnect from the Nri?

Do you know the relationship between Ooni and oba Benin? These are the things that will solidify that igbo have superiority over Benin. You have to prove it

Going to Ife from Bini is the other way, No Ogane there.. only Oduduwa a run away prince from Bini

Hellraiser77:
Going to Ife from Bini is the other way, No Ogane there.. only Oduduwa a run away prince from Bini

Please only quote me when you have evidence I'm tired of you repeating the same thing. I won't reply if u continue doing that.

Hellraiser77:
I had to simplify this geographic headache for you, this is what you will get from Bini if you go east, Now you know where Ogane ruled from

Bring the proof with evidence, last time imma tell ya

Hellraiser77:
You present Lies and half truths as facts , Fraud historian,

Ogane had nothing to do with IFE

Ogane ruled from the east of Bini.....The Europeans summarily dismissed the Ooni as a possible candidate

Lol. You keep trying hard to magnify your ignorance.

I have already pointed out Ryder’s 1965 hypothesis which differed from the consensus of historical scholarship at the time.

However, I also pointed out how he traced back his steps in 1969 to the realistic conclusion of historical scholarship.

What you obviously could not have known in this regard is that even Ryder himself never looked in the direction of Igboland in his 1965 article, rather he was looking in the direction of the Niger-Benue confluence.

In other words, the scholars of precolonial Nigeria history who engaged with this identification all understand the word “east” of this account to be non-literal.

Moreover, the historian Elizabeth Allo Isichei confirmed how Ryder dropped his 1965 solitary and radical view in his 1969 work. Isichei writes:

“It is noteworthy that Ryder, who questioned the Ife connection and argued the case for the linkages with a NORTHERN KINGDOM, abandoned the line of argument in his later book, Benin and the European.” — Elizabeth A. Isichei, “A History of Nigeria”, Longman (1983), Volume 2, p.137.


Regarding Lawal (1977) on the other hand, he took off from where Ryder 1965 left and added his personal details — all hypothetical, but nothing in the direction of Igboland. The following are Lawal’s precise words:

“None the less, if it is true that this fifteenth century ‘Ogane’ refereed to a Yoruba kingdom further north of Benin or near the middle Niger area, then the only Yoruba kingdom that would seem to have been strong enough during this period to rule Benin would be Old .”

— Babatunde Lawal, “The Present State of Art Historical Research in Nigeria: Problems and Possibilities”, Journal of African History, Vol. 18, No. (2). p.211.

It is obvious at this point that you’re caught between a hard rock and a hard place. Lol. But in any case, no scholar identified the Ogane to be an Igbo king — not one scholar. Even your attachment shows Ryder (1965) and Lawal (1977) to be putting forward an hypothetical suggestion — it says: “probably not” modern Ife.

However, what has already been established till date by the body of historical scholarship, on the other hand, is the fact that the Ogane who is described in this account as the most powerful monarch is none other than the Ooni of Ife.

See: Stoll 1902:161-166; Roth 1903:6n1; Marquart 1913:52; Talbot 1926:1:155-156, 281-282, 3:573; Schurhammer 1928:28-30; Bradbury 1964:151, Paula Marti 1960:63, Mauny 1961:182; Akinjogbin 1967:41-43; Ryder 1969: 31; Law 1973:17-19; Willett 1973:137-138; Obayemi 1976:247; Horton 1979; Bondarenko 2003; Akintoye 2010:141-142.

Adam Knobler in as recent as 2016 simply echoed the conclusion reached by all of the above galaxy of scholars in historical scholarship as seen attached below.

cc: LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, BabaRamota1980.

MinorityOpinion:

Please only quote me when you have evidence I'm tired of you repeating the same thing. I won't reply if u continue doing that.

What other evidence do you need, Bini monarchs told of a king that reigned supreme from the east called Ogane, it is clear to this day that Nri priests and emissaries journeyed to Bini Through modern day delta state, just look at the hundreds of Igbo towns littered between the two all the way to modern day Edo state......This is an open truth

Hellraiser77:
[s][/s] Cc Etinosa come see, this clown has Brought up their Dubious IFE claim on Bini lands again

Anyway tell me again how IFE lies to the East of bini because the sun rises from the west in your own weird little world , You are especially skilled in concorting lies, I like your stories

I’m glad you openly admitted (unknowingly) to having no true critique or intelligent response in the light of the evidence, fact and proof which I have submitted.

That shows some growth on your path. Good boy. Cheers.

cc: LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, BabaRamota1980

TAO11:
Lol. You keep trying hard to magnify your ignorance.

I have already pointed out Ryder’s 1965 hypothesis which differed from the consensus of historical scholarship at the time. But I also pointed out how he traced his step back in 1969 to the realistic conclusion of historical scholarship.

What you obviously could not have known in this regard is that even Ryder himself never looked in the direction of Igboland for in his 1965 article, rather he was looking in the Niger-Benue confluence region.

In other words, all the scholars understand the word “east” as used in the European accounts to be non-literal.

Moreover, the historian Elizabeth Allo Isichei confirmed how Ryder dropped his 1965 solitary and radical view in his 1969 work. Isichei writes:

“It is noteworthy that Ryder, who questioned the Ife connection and argued the case for the linkages with a NORTHERN KINGDOM, abandoned the line of argument in his later book, Benin and the European.” — Elizabeth A. Isichei, “A Historical of Nigeria”, Longman (1983), Volume 2, p.137.


Regarding Lawal (1977) on the other hand, he took off from where Ryder 1965 left and added his own details — all hypothetical, but nothing in the direction of . The following are his precise words:

“None the less, if it is true that this fifteenth century ‘Ogane’ refereed to a Yoruba kingdom further north of Benin or near the middle Niger area, then the only Yoruba kingdom that would seem to have been strong enough during this period to rule Benin would be Old .” — Babatunde Lawal, “The Present State of Art Historical Research in Nigeria: Problems and Possibilities”, Journal of African History, Vol. 18, No. (2). p.211.

It is obvious at this point that you’re caught between a hard rock and a hard place. Lol. But in any case no scholar identified the Ogane to be an Igbo king — not one scholar. Even your attachment shows Ryder (1965) and Lawal (1977) to be putting forward an hypothetical suggestion.

However, what has already been established till date by historical scholarship, on the other hand, is the fact that the Ogane who is describes as the most powerful monarch is none other than the Ooni of Ife.

See: Stoll 1902:161-166; Roth 1903:6n1; Marquart 1913:52; Talbot 1926:1:155-156, 281-282, 3:573; Schurhammer 1928:28-30; Bradbury 1964:151, Paula Marti 1960:63, Mauny 1961:182; Akinjogbin 1967:41-43; Ryder 1969: 31; Law 1973:17-19; Willett 1973:137-138; Obayemi 1976:247; Horton 1979; Bondarenko 2003; Akintoye 2010:141-142.

Adam Knobler in as recent as 2016 simply echoed this conclusion reached all the above galaxy of scholars in historical scholarship as see attached below.

cc: LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, BabaRamota1980.

You are fake, Dubious, And a Con artist , That majority of Igbos lost interest in their Ancient complicated history does not mean all of us have forgotten, Ogane ruled from east across the Niger which the Bini knew as orhimwili while Igbos call it orimili or oshimili......Ife is too young

Hellraiser77:
You are fake, Dubious, And a Con artist , That majority of Igbos lost interest in their Ancient complicated history does not mean all of us have forgotten, Ogane ruled from east across the Niger which the Bini knew as orhimwili while Igbos call it orimili or oshimili......Ife is too young

Yes, several innumerable kingdoms lie to the east of Benin up to Cameroon and beyond. But guess what not one scholar (Igbo or non-Igbo) identify the Ogane as an Igbo king. Name me one.

On the contrary, all scholars identify the Ogane as the Ooni of Ife because (1)All the received details from that account matches only the Ooni of Ife; (2)Ife is known among the ancient cultures of the Gulf of Guinea as the place from where the sun rises — “Dawn””” and “East” thus being an important religious symbolism of Ife.

TAO11:
I’m glad you openly admitted (unknowingly) to having no true critique or intelligent response in the light of the evidence, fact and proof which I have submitted.

That shows some growth on your path. Good boy. Cheers.

cc: LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, BabaRamota1980

Your plan is to concort revisionist fables that suit your narrative without providing any links , You are a History G guy Con artist, Ogane was an early forgotten Igbo priest king #fact

Hellraiser77:
You lies are brazen , Slow down with contortions, Ogane was eastward from Bini ,there was no mention of Sunrise anywhere bros, IFE is clearly the opposite way to the west why y'all lying through your teeth without shame? , The Europeans clearly discarded the idea of Ooni as the Ogane

Ok so if we are to assume this ogane is in the Niger-Benue region, in that age Yoruba was the occupier at Niger-Benue confluence in Lokoja, not Ibo.
But we know this is only a theory in that article and not the fact.

On both fact & theory, nothing links ogane to Ibo.

TAO11:
Name in scholar Igbo or non-Igbo who identified Ogane is an Igbo king.

Yes, several kingdoms lie on the east of Benin up to Cameroon and beyond.

All your so called scholars are uninformed and frequently contradicted themselves ....If you want to clear your self go to Anioma or Delta Igbo.....They will clear you on NRI connections to Bini with impeccable facts...they are direct descendants of those that took the long soujourns from Nri to bini

This picture is a tribal group in Cameroon. Not Ibo.
You people have stolen arts and culture from everybody to claim it as Ibo. Stop that nonsense!

Cc
Tao11

BabaRamota1980:


Ok so if we are to assume this ogane is in the Niger-Benue region, in that age Yoruba was the occupier at Niger-Benue confluence in Lokoja, not Ibo.
But we know this is only a theory in that article and not the fact.

On both fact & theory, nothing links ogane to Ibo.

Which age exactly did yeroba occupy lokoja? ....Mr clown

Hellraiser77:
Your plan is to concort revisionist fables that suit your narrative without providing any links , You are a History G guy Con artist, Ogane was an early forgotten Igbo priest king #fact

Name me one (just one) identification (by an Igbo or non-Igbo scholar) of the Ogane as an Igbo king. Not even one exist.

On the contrary, all scholars identify the Ogane as the Ooni of Ife because (1)All the received details from that account matches only the Ooni of Ife; (2)Ife is known among the ancient cultures of the Gulf of Guinea as the place from where the sun rises — “Dawn” and “East” being well-know important religious symbolisms of Ife.

BabaRamota1980:
This picture is a tribal group in Cameroon. Not Ibo.
You people have stolen arts and culture from everybody to claim it as Ibo. Stop that nonsense!

Cc
Tao11

It’s actually not a picture to begin with. Someone was simply drawing by being very imaginative and creative.

Hellraiser77:
Your plan is to concort revisionist fables that suit your narrative without providing any links , You are a History G guy Con artist, Ogane was an early forgotten Igbo priest king #fact

Why is there no history innBini of this Nri or Aro? Why is there no history of it in Igala? You want us to ask Anioma. Was Anioma a kingdom? When you need your history corroborated you go to another peer or a greater kingdom.

BabaRamota1980:
This picture is a tribal group in Cameroon. Not Ibo.
You people have stolen arts and culture from everybody to claim it as Ibo. Stop that nonsense!

Cc
Tao11

You wish ....Read up the Igbo ukwu burial chambers, or Igbo Richard excavations......This early ancient kings where the ultimate bad asses and Bini payed their homage.......None of you have provided any tangible reason why the Bini army never matched East .....they were always doing their conquering towards Yoruba land

Hellraiser77:
Which age exactly did yeroba occupy lokoja? ....Mr clown

Yoruba was the first occupant civilization in Lokoja. Hausa got to Lokoja as result of war that pushed them down South. They are settlers.

Focus on the theory presented in your article on Niger/Benue confluence. Ibo is not known there.

Moreover, as I said, is Mohammed an Iboman because muslims in Bini pray facing East?

TAO11:
Name me one (just one) identification (by an Igbo or non-Igbo scholar) of the Ogane as an Igbo king. Not even one exist.

On the contrary, all scholars identify the Ogane as the Ooni of Ife because (1)All the received details from that account matches only the Ooni of Ife; (2)Ife is known among the ancient cultures of the Gulf of Guinea as the place from where the sun rises — “Dawn” and “East” being well-know important religious symbolisms of Ife.

You simply introduced religious symbolism to turn East into west , Mr scammer..... Ife is to the west of Bini while Ogane ruled from the East, I'm sure your Waec geography result was F9

Hellraiser77:
You wish ....Read up the Igbo ukwu burial chambers, or Igbo Richard excavations......This early ancient kings where the ultimate bad asses and Bini payed their homage.......None of you have provided any tangible reason why the Bini army never matched East .....they were always doing their conquering towards Yoruba land

Kingdoms march on Kingdoms, not on villages.

Hellraiser77:
You simply introduced religious symbolism to turn East into west , Mr scammer..... Ife is to the west of Bini while Ogane ruled from the East, I'm sure your Waec geography result was F9

I didn’t introduce. Instead, scholars found. And I already adduced the evidence here.

All you have to do is read up the very comment you spend time responding to. It makes you appear less dumb.

Nonetheless, I understand how all these make you feel. Lol.

TAO11:
I didn’t introduce. Instead, scholars found. And I adduced the evidence .

I understand how all these make you feel though. Lol.

Post a link to your scholarly article so we can read them ourselves , You copy what suits your false IFE narrative to edit paste for us here. To the east of Bini ruled the NRI priest-kings, Ogane being a member of this line of kings

Hellraiser77:
You simply introduced religious symbolism to turn East into west , Mr scammer..... Ife is to the west of Bini while Ogane ruled from the East, I'm sure your Waec geography result was F9

The act the Oba was observed performing was religious. He faced East to give veneration to his ancestors in Ife.

Not that his ancestors were from East, but ancient customs of Sun worahipping is embedded in all religions.

Like I said, if Muslims in Benin prayed facing East, as they do, does it mean Mohammed is an Iboman?

Hellraiser77:
Post a link to your scholarly article so we can read them ourselves , You copy what suits your false IFE narrative to edit paste for us here. To the east of Bini ruled the NRI priest-kings, Ogane being a member of this line of kings

Your colonizer Igala does not even know anything called Nri.

Igbo remains enwe eze till kingdom come!

BabaRamota1980:

Kingdoms march on Kingdoms, not on villages.

They knew NRI and it's Superior JuJu and mysticism was to the east so they didn't dare

BabaRamota1980:

Your colonizer Igala does not even know anything called Nri.

Igbo remains enwe eze till kingdom come!

Igala business was just a recent history of 18th century, it was never a colonisation but a cultural blending and exchange.....What the Fulanis did in Ilorin is what is called the ultimate Colonisation .....Ilorin will have fulani emirs till thy kingdom come

BabaRamota1980:


The act the Oba was observed performing was religious. He faced East to give veneration to his ancestors in Ife.

Not that his ancestors were from East, but ancient customs of Sun worahipping is embedded in all religions.

Like I said, if Muslims in Benin prayed facing East, as they do, does it mean Mohammed is an Iboman?

Bia Olajide stop shifting our goal post, which Kain scatter scatter arguement be this?

Hellraiser77:
Igala business was just a recent history of 18th century, it was never a colonisation but a cultural blending and exchange.....Why the Fulanis did in Ilorin is what is called the ultimate Colonisation .....Ilorin will have emirs till thy kingdom come

Fulani ackwnoeldges that Yoruba had kingdoms.

Who in Africa acknowledges Ibo kingdom? Nobody beside Ibo.

BabaRamota1980:

Fulani ackwnoeldges that Yoruba had kingdoms.

Who in Africa acknowledges Ibo kingdom? Nobody beside Ibo.

Fulani acknowledged that Yerobas had kingdom by snatching Ilorin?....they could only attempt that cos they knew it was a p***ssy ass kingdom