gregyboy:



Again total rubbish from you, i dont get the mention when you quote me, so i endup searching for it myself Before i can see it


Lol, olokun is a male and female deity they are both two individual male and female living together probably husband and wife, i have served in olokun court as a boy, i know this fact, Oduduwa is a diety and some yorubas still refer him as a diety who never existed he wasnt defied as you claim..... The ketu people knows this that he was a mere diety who never breathed if he existed his gender wouldn't be mistaken by them


The Wyndham guy gave is own false list, probably because is a white guy his list became accepted and was posted on wiki....i have read through that article nowere did they equate Obalufon as ogun, in the article they even



I have argued on ife kinglist before now, and even checked the Wikipedia kinglist few years back nothing was including ogun at the list.... Lol


Your mouth is running like tap, that very moment you get so emotional because am bursting your bubbles, but at thesame time you're trying not to show it......

You still didnt prove how ogun belongs to the ife or yoruba people nether have i proven too ogun is indegenious to benin, but i believe our ventures into yorubas might have taken it there or brought it, it is still not yet proven by me, but claiming oromiyan brought it, makes you a dummie and a desperado, oromiyan coming to benin was a lie, you posted a quote dating from 1903, supporting the fact it was eweka that came from ife not oromiyan here you are going against your quote... Lol TAO11, or should i call you taolesbian maybe taoles will do

Note: ife is a staged political compilation to unite yorubas under one political umbrella, all yorubas know this, but wouldn't want to agree not to cause disunity

I have showed all proves ewuare existed an even early towns he conqured at this point i drop my pen

You served in Olokun court but you are not Olokun Priest.

What is Okun in Edo language?

TAO11:
The post was longer than typical, so here is the response to the concluding part of your comment

They did at the very instant they sent to Ife requesting an Ife-Yoruba king to come over and help direct their local affairs after their prior monarchy had plunged into some profound disorder.

cc: BabaRamota1980

Gregboy done enter your wahala.


The reason why I like you is that you are always focused and you don’t subject to distractions.

That’s a nice thing so keep it up.

OfoIgbo:


Nri people have never been under Abam or any of the Aro towns. Even up till today, Eze Aro will always defer to Eze Nri on cultural matters.
Forget about these people that write nonsense. Some days ago I was even reading an Awka writer that insinuated that Nri people were under Awka, all because of the modern trend of making ones people appear almighty.

Till tomorrow, Eze Aro will never challenge Eze Nri on cultural matters.

Aro is relatively recent, compared to Nri. There are more than 200 towns and villages in Igbo land today, of Nri ancestry. All these happened hundreds of years ago, way before Aro came to the scene.

Eze Aro cannot really be said to be greater than Benin Oba, or the Ooni of Ife, but Eze Nri title is about the only title that can be said to be greater than the Benin Oba or the Ooni of Ife. Portuguese records back this up

Hello bro, here's a link where Nri kingdom was stated as one of the earliest in West Africa. It was mentioned alongside other civilizations like Egypt, Harrapa of southern Asia,Erlitou of central China,and was put at around 900 CE. I am really grateful to all the people that contributed one way or the other to this thread. From collective efforts, the truth about the Igbos is beginning to surface. kindly go through the link and tell me your thoughts.
https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/whp-origins/era-3-cities-societies-and-empires-6000-bce-to-700-c-e/34-what-is-a-state-betaa/a/read-first-states-beta?modal=1

LegendHero:
Gregboy done enter your wahala.

The reason why I like you is that you are always focused and you don’t subject to distractions.

That’s a nice thing so keep it up.

Hahaha He has always been my dullest Edo student though.

I will reply his latest straw-clutching comment with a final blow in due course after the day’s work.

He is still battling for life in coma at the moment.

You Yoruba guys must be bad. Ibos cant win your argument, they are using different tactic, reporting you for ban and their kins are acting on it for things that are not even legit for ban.

Is yanminri a violation of rule?
If it is why is afonja allowed?
Why is almajiri allowed?

Kudos to Yorubas on this thread!

BabaRamota1980:


You served in Olokun court but you are not Olokun Priest.

What is Okun in Edo language?

Large body of water, sea is called okun

BabaRamota1980:


You served in Olokun court but you are not Olokun Priest.

What is Okun in Edo language?

Please don't ask me any foolish questions again i wont reply you.... Visit my profile and go through the olokun thread please don't cry when you see prove

TAO11:
The post was longer than typical, so here is the response to the concluding parts of your comment

No it is your ignorance that is actually so assorted.

The traditions are extremely clear that Oduduwa was deified after his reign in Ife.

While virtually all the Yoruba kingdoms deified Oduduwa as a male deity, the western Yoruba kingdom of Ketu (according to this specific tradition) deified Oduduwa as a female deity.

In fact, the Edo kingdom of Benin deified Oduduwa as both a male deity and a female deity.

Having said that, you have once been caught falsely claiming that Olokun is deified in Benin worship as both a male deity and a female deity.

It took my intervention to clarify to you that while the Yorubas introduced only the male deification of Olokun to the Edos, the Yorubas themselves continue to venerate both a male deification and a female deification of Olokun.

Now just as is the case with Olokun, it is absurd then to conclude from the foregoing instances of Oduduwa‘s deification variety that the original bearer of the name must have been both a male and a female personage; or that there is some confusion about which he really was while he lived.

No! Deification may obviously take any gender form regardless of the actual gender of the deified individual during their lifetime.
.
.
.
Having clarified the distinction between a deity and the actual human whose name it bears; what seems most likely to have originally precipitated the deification of Oduduwa as a female deity in some Yoruba liturgies and traditions is the existence of an actual Yoruba goddess by a similar name — the goddess named ”Odudu” who is regarded as the mother of the deities Eye Umole.

In relation to the Yoruba goddess “Odudu”, Professor Akintoye writes citing A.B. Ellis (1894:40):

“A goddess named Odudu was regarded as the wife of of Orisanla and mother of the gods (Eye umole or Iya imole). In certain liturgies and localities, the name of this goddess later became confused with the name Oduduwa, the name of an important male personage in later Yoruba history. (Oduduwa was later deified as a male god.) Odudu is still worshipped in some places in Yorubaland as Odudu, not Oduduwa; Odudu’s shrine and rituals still exist in Ado (in Ekiti), where she is worshipped as mother of all mothers and their little children*”

S.A. Akintoye, “A History of the Yoruba People”, Amalion Publishing, 2010, p.32.

They did at the very instant they sent to Ife requesting an Ife-Yoruba king to come over and help direct their local affairs after their prior monarchy had plunged into some profound disorder.

cc: BabaRamota1980, macof, LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, googi.

Lol � please no one should take this lady serious, i finshed her on olokun thread she and her brother... Lol dont mind her likes, is not showing true reality, if you know you know, the people giving her the likes are bunch of yoruba loosers who are full of tearful behind the screen because am bursting are bubbles... Lol
Yorubas are cowards

Anyway dont twist my words, and don't try to confuse people too by telling lies


Olokun is an edo worship anyone who got the time should visit my profile for the thread,warning, it will too graphical for any yorubas who visit

Olokun is two people male and female, living together, husband and wife, the male olokun poses only males, while the female olokun posses only the female,

The screenshot below shows a benin man on chalk describing how he was poses by a female olokun diety making him behave like a lady

He specifically said a female olokun deity and and not a male olokun deity

So oduduwa na big time, or a pure diety that never existed and worship by ife people

Lol the bolded makes me laugh did oduduwa even exist in the first place mad woman

You think we are your fellow yorubas that one useless myth would unite them



Please i want my yoruba wanna be cousins to follow me in my next thread i want to further burst you guys bubbles



gomojam
DonCandido
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun
Lawani
Mraphel

It must be reminded too that the Igbo People had existed for 1,450yrs before the birth of Jesus Christ around 001BC/001AD; and 3, 436yrs after his glorious death around 33AD. The Yoruba Nation, on the other hand, was founded in Nigeria about 1,099yrs after the birth of Jesus Christ and 1,066yrs after his death.

TAO11:
Wearing clothes is better than roaming about na.ked.

You must first accept this statement in order to earn my attention.

Those that lives in a glass house should not throw stones, so much for the unclothedness/ rags / the original TARZAN below is Yoruba land before they introduce the new dressing to the Yoruba's inwhich the Yoruba's now tags/ calls it Agbada .

letu:
Those that lives in a glass house should not throw stones, so much for the unclothedness/ rags / the original TARZAN below is Yoruba land before they introduce the new dressing to the Yoruba's inwhich the Yoruba's now tags/ calls it Agbada .

Lol. You are a true Igbo man in case some of your kinsmen were doubting you. Your shot at fraud here has indeed vindicated you to be truly ndi-Igbo.

But the next time you give fraud a shot like this, make sure that the editing (done by yourself or by your random internet source) at least incorporates a real Yoruba name — at least.

Everything about your images screams NON-Yoruba, perhaps Southern Africa.

Yorubas didn’t wear hide/skin — at least not at the time suggested by your fake images. Abeokuta was founded sometimes in the 1800s.

Whereas if you check out my profile picture, you will find an Ife bronze cast (which is dated to circa 1200) incorporating the use of textile/beads not hide/skin.

Cheers!

cc: BabaRamota1980, LegendHero.

gregyboy:




Lol � please no one should take this lady serious, i finshed her on olokun thread she and her brother... Lol dont mind her likes, is not showing true reality, if you know you know, the people giving her the likes are bunch of yoruba loosers who are full of tearful behind the screen because am bursting are bubbles... Lol
Yorubas are cowards

Anyway dont twist my words, and don't try to confuse people too by telling lies


Olokun is an edo worship anyone who got the time should visit my profile for the thread,warning, it will too graphical for any yorubas who visit

Olokun is two people male and female, living together, husband and wife, the male olokun poses only males, while the female olokun posses only the female,

The screenshot below shows a benin man on chalk describing how he was poses by a female olokun diety making him behave like a lady

He specifically said a female olokun deity and and not a male olokun deity

So oduduwa na big time, or a pure diety that never existed and worship by ife people

Lol the bolded makes me laugh did oduduwa even exist in the first place mad woman

You think we are your fellow yorubas that one useless myth would unite them



Please i want my yoruba wanna be cousins to follow me in my next thread i want to further burst you guys bubbles



gomojam
DonCandido
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun
Lawani
Mraphel

Be like sey you dey stupid Abi?

I have warned you many times never to tag me to your rubbish posts again. You fool.

gregyboy:
Again total rubbish from you,

To think this is coming from my slave who must seek my permission before he wears clothes.

i dont get the mention when you quote me, so i endup searching for it myself Before i can see it

Really!? And what makes you think telling me this will help any of the moronic 'arguments' you should be defending?

Lol, olokun is a male and female deity they are both two individual male and female living together probably husband and wife,

You’re a Janus-faced fatuous little Edo liar for telling this outright lie. No wonder you didn’t bother pretending to have any supporting evidence for it.

For the sake of the sane reader who cares for nothing but the truth, please note that the deification of Olokun among the Edos is only as a male deity.

The Edos simply do not worship Olokun as a female deity, but as a male deity. It is the Yorubas (and not the Edos) who worship Olokun as a female deity and also as a male deity.

The male deification of Olokun is apparently what was introduced to the Edos by the Yorubas.

The following reference is to a peer-reviewed academic journal article dedicated exclusively to the deity “Olokun” among the Edos:

Norma Rosen, “Chalk Iconography in Olokun Worship”, African Arts Vol. 22. No. 3 (May 1989), pp. 44-88.

In this above-referenced journal article, Norma Rosen (who is not only a scholar but also an Olokun initiate) clearly identifies Olokun to be a male deity among the Edos.

Not once did he mince words in this regard throughout this article dedicated solely to the subject of Olokun among the Edos.

For example, the opening statements of this article from which Olokun’s gender in the context of Edo worship is clearly identified reads as follows:

“The Edo people of Nigeria believe that Olokun, god of the sea, is a powerful and benevolent deity who can bring children, health, riches, and other blessings to those who worship him. One of his praise names is Oba n’ Ame No Se No Rre Oke (The King of the Sea is Greater Than the King of the Land). Olokun has a place of cowries in his kingdom beneath the sea, but the oba (King) of the lad does not. A popular worship song praises his omnipotence: Ai ghi gbe oba n’ ame/ I vba oba n’ ame mwen (You do not fight the king of the water/ I come to meet the king of the water for help).”

i have served in olokun court as a boy, i know this fact,

If the bolded is in anyway true, then you have just publicly announced one of the sources of your PTSD.

In other words, you simply became traumatized when you later found out that your childhood was dedicated to serving a Yoruba deity. Now I’m beginning to understand why you’re always frustrated. I advise that you spend more time with a therapist than on Nairaland.

Having said that, it is important to remind you again that you simply lied as usual when you remarked that you “know this [for a] fact” that Olokun is worshipped by the Edos both as a male deity and as a female deity.

The evidence from the above-cited work of Norma Rosen (a scholar and Olokun initiate) has already exposed you as a liar.

Also, your expression of doubt in your foregoing block of comment where you said: “probably husband and wife” clearly contradicts your expression of certainty here where you said: “I … served … I know this fact”.

Oduduwa is a diety and some yorubas still refer him as a diety who never existed he wasnt defied as you claim......

Of course, Oduduwa is a deity – because he was deified. Name me one academic source which supports your moronic joke that Oduduwa never existed.

Moreover, it isn’t merely my personal claim that Oduduwa was deified. Instead, this is the obvious age-long and widely-known Yoruba (and Bini) reality. Lol.

For example, the historian B.A. Agiri quoted a declaration of an Ijebu man in the year 1901 in response to the then emerging modern Oyo hegemonic tendencies to shift the Yoruba capital (not cradle – Oyo never at any point thought of itself as the Yoruba cradle) from Ife towards itself. B.A. Agiri writes:

“In 1901 an Ijebu man found it necessary to make an emphatic declaration on Yoruba history:

I deny that Oyo is the capital city of Yoruba land. Ife, the cradle home of the whole Yorubas and the land of the deified Oduduwa, has been recognised by every interior tribe (including Benin and Ketu) for all intents and purposes as the capital city.*“

B.A. Agiri, “Early Oyo History Reconsidered”, History in Africa, 1975, Vol. 2 (1975), p.1.

It is clear from the foregoing 1901 declaration of the Ijebu man (eight years before Obafemi Awolowo’s birth) that Oduduwa was admitted into the Yoruba pantheon after his life – this is the precise significance of the word deify as used here.

I really hope it wasn’t Obafemi Awolowo who (while still a 'baby in heaven') forced this poor Ijebu man to make this declaration.

Now that your regular AwOlOwO-straw has been shattered, would you now begin a fresh search for another modern Yoruba leader to clutch at as the ‘brain’ behind the prevalence of Oduduwa and Ife in general Yoruba thought?

May be Tinubu would be your new song, who knows!? Anyways, good-luck to you on your new search.

The ketu people knows this that he was a mere diety who never breathed if he existed his gender wouldn't be mistaken by them

Firstly, I have demonstrated in the foregoing section that Oduduwa is a deified entity. In otherr words, he is an historical personage that was admitted into the Yoruba pantheon after his life.

Secondly, nowhere does the Yoruba people of Ketu (in today’s Republic of Benin) claim that Oduduwa’s gender was mistaken.

I have provided a detailed explanation specifically on this (see: [url=]HERE[/url]) where I differentiated between a deity on one hand, and the actual person whose name the deity came to bear on the other hand.

Your comprehension level must be very base to still be getting these two conflated despite the obvious distinction. Or are you simply pretending to be dumb?

The Yorubas in general deified Oduduwa as a male deity. The Yorubas of Ketu deified Oduduwa as a female deity. The Yorubas of Benin kingdom (i.e. the Oba’s family, et al.) deified Oduduwa as both a male deity and a female deity.

The deification of Oduduwa (just like the deification of Olokun, et al.) has no definite bearing on the actual gender of the persons whose names these deities came to bear.

The Wyndham guy gave is own false list, probably because is a white guy his list became accepted and was posted on wiki....

If a moronic dunce like yourself feel the need to make baseless assertions of course without any supporting evidence, then an efficient thinker like myself can justifiably dismiss such assertions also without having to provide any evidence.

Reference: Christopher Hitchens: “Hitchens’s Razor”.

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980, macof

Continuation 1:

gregyboy:
i have read through that article nowere did they equate Obalufon as ogun, in the article they even

They even what?

First of all, I know for sure you didn’t read all of the thirty-five-page article because you’ve made it clear more than once on many threads that you are dead-scared of reading.

But guess what, you didn’t even have to read all the pages in order to arrive — from same article — at the conclusion now reached by historians’ that Obalufon-Ogbgbodirin was one and the same personage as Ogun.

All you need do was apply yourself to “TABLE II” of your attachment which I have dumbed down for you to the simplest level of understanding possible.

To avoid being repetitive, refer [url=]HERE[/url] again to my detailed comment on this. Refer specifically to my fourth (4th) and fifth (5th) blocks of comments there for the relevant points.

I have argued on ife kinglist before now, and even checked the Wikipedia kinglist few years back nothing was including ogun at the list.... Lol

Really!?

Let me adopt this same line of your 'argument' to see if it works in refuting your ‘argument’ here. Here you go:

I have argued on the Ife king-list before now. I even checked Wikipedia a few years back and Ogun was included on the list …. Lol

I guess it worked in debunking your ‘argument’, right? Nonsense and Obaseki!

Your mouth is running like tap, that very moment you get so emotional because am bursting your bubbles, but at thesame time you're trying not to show it......

You are one joke of a dullard who thinks he knows better than his teacher. I hope the Oba of Benin has now final granted you permission to wear clothes.

You still didnt prove how ogun belongs to the ife or yoruba people nether have i proven too ogun is indegenious to benin,

First of all, notice that you’ve now had a shift of position from when you first started off some days ago.

HERE you were found saying, and I quote, that: “Ogun nor fit kill benin person na we get am”; but now you obviously have dumped that position.

My job of schooling you seems to be yielding some fruit after all.

But despite now abandoning your initial position, you still appear to be hard-gripped by insecurity and inferiority to the extent of adopting the idea of we’re going down together.

Having said that, I have demonstrated without a shred of doubt that Ogun originated from the Yorubas. Refer [url=]HERE[/url] for a gentle reminder on that.

Refer specifically to my fifteenth (15th) and seventeenth (17th) blocks of comments there for the relevant points.

For the umpteenth time, the following are the decisive questions (and their respective answers) which you must genuinely ponder in order to arrive at a logical and definite conclusion regarding the indigenous origin of Ogun:

(1) Q: Is there any traditional Benin account about a Bini whose name is Ogun?

A: Yes, there is probably one such account to the effect that Ewuare I’s pre-coronation name was “Ogun”.

And Ewuare I is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1400s.

(2) Q: Is there any traditional Yoruba account about a Yoruba whose name is Ogun?

A: Yes there is certainly more than one such account about different Yoruba personages by the name “Ogun”.

Refer specifically to my fifth (5th) block of comment found at [url=]THIS LINK[/url] for one of such accounts.

And the Ogun of this specific account is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1000s.

(3) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Edo language?

A: Absolutely no! I’m glad you’ve also conceded this more than once on this same thread.

(4) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Yoruba language?

A: Absolutely yes! The word “ogun” breaks down into its two syllables, viz. “ò” and “gún”.

“Gún” is the Yoruba equivalent of the verb: “even”, “level”, “balance”, “stabilize”, etc.

The preceding “ò” describes the subject who performs the “gún” action.

An everyday example of this is seen in the Yoruba word “òkpùró” which literally means “one who lies” (i.e. “liar”) — where “kpuro” is the verb: “lie”.

“Ògún” then, as has just been demonstrated, is purely a Yoruba word which literally means “the one who evens”, “the one who stabilizes”, etc..

This meaning, moreover, is in perfect harmony with Ogun’s cosmogonical/liturgical attribute as the one who clears pathways, as well as the one who set the earth into a habitable mode prior to (and in preparation for) human habitation.

In sum:
The deity Ogun is indigenous to the Yorubas and not the Binis for (at least) two valid reasons:

(1) Per Yoruba accounts (in relation to Benin accounts) the original bearer(s) of the name “Ogun” among the Yorubas flourished at least four (4) centuries prior to the emergence of a supposed bearer of the same name among the Binis.

(2) The word “ogun” is literally meaningless in the Edo language.

However, not only is it literally meaningful in the Yoruba language, its meaning is also consistent with the cosmogonical/liturgical attribute of the deity who bears the name.

but i believe our ventures into yorubas might have taken it there or brought it, it is still not yet proven by me,

Per the bolded, I am glad you’ve lately began to sound less reckless. This shows that my effort at educating you is not wasted after all.

But to respond quickly to your remark on “ventures into yorubas”, it appears you refer here to your usual ignorant remark to the effect that Benin ruled certain Yoruba territories.

A quick refutation to this lies in the fact that all the accounts which discuss this are based on one-sided traditions emanating originally from the Binis.

The only exception where such accounts is unambiguously two-sided is among the Itsekiri-Yoruba subgroup who in the late-1400s accepted the Benin prince Iginuwa to be their king.

Among the reasons cited by historians for this smooth transition is that the Itsekiri stock and the royal party from Benin considered each other as belonging to the same ethno-lingustic group — the Yoruba group.

In relation to this, the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime noted that “The Benin court may have been bilingual for some time after the coming of the Ife prince (that is Oranmiyan) and … therefore the royal party from Benin may have spoken Yoruba as well as Edo.”*

* Obaro Ikime: “The Peoples and Kingdoms of the Delta Province,” in Ikime, ed.: Groundwork of Nigerian History, 89 – 108.

In actual fact, the eyewitness written testimony of the visiting French Father Columbin of Nantes states that the lingua-franca of Benin kingdom (in the 1600s when he visited) was the language of the Lukumi (i.e. Yoruba) people.

Moreover, the royal title in foreign kingdoms whose affairs are truly ruled by the Benin kingdom is always one of the following: “Ogie”, “Ogiame”, “Enogie”, “Onojie”, “Ovie”, “Orodje”, etc.

None of these royal titles was ever used in any of the Yoruba kingdoms often irrationally claimed by the Binis today, with the exception of course of the Ode-Itsekiri Yoruba kingdom.

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980, macof

[s]

TAO11:
Lol. You are a true Igbo man in case some of your kinsmen were doubting you. Your shot at fraud here has indeed vindicated you to be truly ndi-Igbo.

But the next time you give fraud a shot like this, make sure that the editing (done by yourself or by your random internet source) at least incorporates a real Yoruba name — at least.

Everything about your images screams NON-Yoruba, perhaps Southern Africa.

Yorubas didn’t wear hide/skin — at least not at the time suggested by your fake images. Abeokuta was founded sometimes in the 1800s.

Whereas if you check out my profile picture, you will find an Ife bronze cast (which is dated to circa 1200) incorporating the use of textile/beads not hide/skin.

Cheers!

cc: BabaRamota1980, LegendHero.

[/s] Tao11 you are still on this thread spreading your Falsehood here with your oversabi attitude

Below is your ijebu-yoruba ancestors and how they dressed.....come and deny them as usual

Continuation 2:

cc: gregyboy
but claiming oromiyan brought it, makes you a dummie and a desperado, oromiyan coming to benin was a lie,

First of all, it isn’t merely my personal claim to say that Oranmiyan came to Benin for the purpose of establishing a dynastic monarchy there.

Instead, this is the standard traditional Yoruba account and also the standard and “official” traditional Benin account.

So, are you really standing by your statement that the current Oba of Benin, Omo n’Oba Ewuare II, is a dummy? Because he also admits this same historical fact just as his ancestors.

Moreover, this is the standard narrative in historical scholarship just as you have seen in my above reference to the work of the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime.

If you must hold a view contrary to this standard Yoruba traditional account, standard Benin traditional account, and established position of historical scholarship; then you must be wiling to present an extraordinary, redoubtable, and firmly established body of evidence in order to be regarded as sane.

you posted a quote dating from 1903, supporting the fact it was eweka that came from ife not oromiyan here you are going against your quote...

Just as I have once schooled two of your brothers on this before, an account collected from Benin is not binding on me unless it agrees with other vast independent corroborating accounts.

If this account quoted in H.L. Roth, 1903 (but collected from Benin in 1897) must be binding on anyone, then it is a Bini whom it must be binding on, not a Yoruba. I hope this is clear.

What is binding on me, instead, is the standard Yoruba account (which interestingly is also corroborated independently by the standard and “official” Benin account) which states that Oranmiyan came to Benin for the purpose of establishing a dynastic monarchy.

So, if this account which states that Eweka is the Yoruba man who came from Ife to rule the Binis is what you subscribe to and not the standard and “official” Benin account, then you’ve just simply transitioned from frypan to fire.

In other words, all you did is simply to identify a different Ife source through which “Ogun” worship found its way into the Edo nation.
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.
.
Having said that however, if one is to be fair to the overwhelming vast majority of the extant Benin traditional accounts on this subject, it becomes obvious then to realize that the 1897 account simply conflated the father (Oranmiyan) with his son (Eweka), especially as Eweka (and not Oranmiyan) eventually became the first Oba according to standard extant Yoruba and Benin accounts.

Lol TAO11, or should i call you taolesbian maybe taoles will do

Is this supposed to be an angry reaction to the fact that I exposed you to be a closet gay?

Note: ife is a staged political compilation to unite yorubas under one political umbrella, all yorubas know this, but wouldn't want to agree not to cause disunity

. Staged by Tinubu or who? Remember that your AwOlOwO-straw has already been shattered. So, hurry up in your search for a new candidate.

Ewuare ancestral alter is still in the palace you don't believe ewaure but you making reference to the idol brought by ewuare himself

First of all, Ewuare 1 did not bring any “idol” from anywhere. You have to stop deluding yourself and yet believing it.

Secondly, my whole point about Ewuare 1 is that your inane criterion of proof by non-oral accounts is simply dumb and self-contradictory.

This is because you agree that Ewuare 1 lived despite the fact that the only historical proof of his existence is the body oral traditional accounts about him. I hope you now see my whole point about your dumbness and double standard.

Moreover, if the dedication of an ancestral altar to a certain Ewuare 1 is the needed proof that the said Ewuare 1 existed, then what does this same criterion tell you about the dedication of ancestral altars to Oduduwa and Ogun in Ife?

Even you yourself must have perceived the stench of your own double-standard and dumbness at this point.

But for emphasis though, the dedication of ancestral altars is obviously by itself not a proof that the dedicatee really lived.

How do we know for certain that the altar was not simply dedicated originally to a fictional entity? To clarify this would obviously require resort to oral narrations again. So you're back to square one.

In sum then, the actual historical proof of existence for such entities as Oduduwa, Ogun, Ewuare 1, et al. (in the obvious absence of any eyewitness written account about them) is the vast body of (exaggerated or unexaggerated) oral accounts which identifies them as historical personages.

Picture one showing ogun as one of the 16 elders, and not as a king TAO11 desperado

It is interesting how you often get carried away by my lectures to the point that you forget the argument you were originally defending.

Your original argument was that “Ogun” is not indigenous to Ife. However, you’ve just been caught now affirming that Ogun was one of the aboriginal “sixteen elders” of Ife – the very argument you had initially set out to reject.

You seem to have been focused desperately and irrationally on rejecting the notion that Ogun ruled as King in Ife to the detriment of your own original argument that Ogun is not indigenous to Ife.

Having highlighted your fundamental contradiction here, it is important that I make the following clarifications in respect of Ogun as King in Ife as seen in “TABLE II” of your own attachment, and as seen in my quotation of Professor Akintoye’s reference to the relevant Yoruba traditional accounts:

(1) The reference to Ogun as King in Ife is in clear relation to Ogun as a human and historical personage. Refer again to “TABLE II” of your attachment, as well as to my quotation of Professor Akintoye’s reference to the relevant traditional account.

(2) The reference to Ogun as one of the aboriginal elders of Ife as shown in your attachment here, on the other hand, is in clear relation to Ogun as one of the aboriginal deities “who descended with Oduduwa” in the earliest beginnings. Refer to the same page of your attachment here for this context.

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980

Tao11 come and identify your mother here!!

Should I guess?

We are now Conjuring up fake likes to massage and pet our battered Ego

Yoruba will always be inferior when placed side by side with anything igbo

Continuation 3:

gregyboy

Picture 2 shows the author saying the arrangement and names of the various ife kings are not accurate and shouldn't be taking seriously

Another misrepresentation and outright falsehood! The attachment doesn’t say any of the nonsense you’ve attributed to it here.

I wonder what you take your fellow Edos for to the extent of feeling so emboldened to lie blatantly to their faces (and to yourself) even in the presence of contrary evidence available to all and sundry.

First of all, your attachment refers specifically to post-1800 kings and not all the kings from the beginning. This therefore excludes the era of King Ogun.

Secondly, nowhere does the author of your attachment say anything to the effect that these four lists of post-1800 kings “shouldn’t be taken seriously”. This is simply your Edo lying nature kicking in.

On the contrary however, the author of your attachment finds it “impressive” that these independent lists coming originally from a semi-literate context shows “an absolute consistency” in general.

Picture 3 tells that the ogiso dynasty was a myth that keeps the yoruba masturbating... Lol if ogiso dynasty was not real like i and scholars believe then which monarchy did the yoruba or oromiyan take power from and what was the title of the benin king then.....

This is again another falsehood which could be due to you little dull mind.

The attachment speaks simply of the difficulty of confirming the “time frame”, “period”, or “chronological context” of the Ogisos’ reigns because of the obvious exaggerated parlance in which the period was couched.

However, nowhere does the attachment mention that the Binis were never ruled by the Ogisos. Nowhere does it say that. I challenge you to point it out. Liar!

Yoruba are benin wanna be funny but true

Nope! It is neither funny nor true that any master would want to be like his own slave

Pic 4 is helping me tell TAO11 that Roupell's benin king list was incomplete because he didn't ask the right people but instead commoners in benin, so stop masturbating in Roupell's kinglist... Lol

First of all, nowhere does Roupell mention or indicate that his Benin king-list was incomplete.

In fact, your own attachment says the direct opposite of the statement you're falsely attributing to it here. It describes Roupell’s account with the word “comprehensive”.

Secondly, you lied blatantly again by asserting that Roupell did not compile his list from the right informants. I wonder who the right informants on Benin traditions are if not the court historians, the priests, et al.

And your attachment says exactly that where it states and I quote here: “Roupell’s informants were the “court historians, three jujumen, a master smith, a master wood carver, a master ivory carver”.

I really wonder why you ironically attach the very screenshots that 'rubbishes' what you stand for.

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980

[s]

TAO12:
Continuation 3:

Another misrepresentation and outright falsehood! The attachment doesn’t say any of the nonsense you’ve attributed to it here.

I wonder what you take your fellow Edos for to the extent of feeling so emboldened to lie blatantly to their faces (and to yourself) even in the presence of contrary evidence available to all and sundry.

First of all, your attachment refers specifically to post-1800 kings and not all the kings from the beginning. This therefore excludes the era of King Ogun.

Secondly, nowhere does the author of your attachment say anything to the effect that these four lists of post-1800 kings “shouldn’t be taken seriously”. This is simply your Edo lying nature kicking in.

On the contrary however, the author of your attachment finds it “impressive” that these independent lists coming originally from a semi-literate context shows “an absolute consistency” in general.

This is again another falsehood which could be due to you little dull mind.

The attachment speaks simply of the difficulty of confirming the “time frame”, “period”, or “chronological context” of the Ogisos’ reigns because of the obvious exaggerated parlance in which the period was couched.

However, nowhere does the attachment mention that the Binis were never ruled by the Ogisos. Nowhere does it say that. I challenge you to point it out. Liar!

Nope! It is neither funny nor true that any master would want to be like his own slave

First of all, nowhere does Roupell mention or indicate that his Benin king-list was incomplete.

In fact, your own attachment says the direct opposite of the statement you're falsely attributing to it here. It describes Roupell’s account with the word “comprehensive”.

Secondly, you lied blatantly again by asserting that Roupell did not compile his list from the right informants. I wonder who the right informants on Benin traditions are if not the court historians, the priests, et al.

And your attachment says exactly that where it states and I quote here: “Roupell’s informants were the “court historians, three jujumen, a master smith, a master wood carver, a master ivory carver”.

I really wonder why you ironically attach the very screenshots that 'rubbishes' what you stand for.

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980

[/s] Tao12 is scared to shits now to even mention me

I don suffer this beach!! ....Tao12 is this not your ijebu women flying their breasts?

Tao12 is an unrepentant fraud that spends his entire pathetic existence scouring the internet space for articles to Misinterpret and bend to fit his Inferiority complex induced sense of importance

Whoever is behind this Tao handle needs psychiatric help

TAO12:
Continuation 2:

First of all, it isn’t merely my personal claim to say that Oranmiyan came to Benin for the purpose of establishing a dynastic monarchy there.

Instead, this is the standard traditional Yoruba account and also the standard no “official” traditional Benin account.

So, are you really standing by your statement that the current Oba of Benin, Omo n’Oba Ewuare II, is a dummy? Because he also admits this same historical fact just as his ancestors.

Moreover, this is the standard narrative in historical scholarship just as you have seen in my above reference to the work of the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime.

If you must hold a view contrary to this standard Yoruba traditional account, standard Benin traditional account, and established position of historical scholarship; then you must be wiling to present an extraordinary, redoubtable, and firmly established body of evidence in order to be regarded as sane.

Just as I have once schooled two of your brothers on this before, an account collected from Benin is not binding on me unless it agrees with other vast independent corroborating accounts.

If this account quoted in H.L. Roth, 1903 (but collected from Benin in 1897) must be binding on anyone, then it is a Bini whom it must be binding on, not a Yoruba. I hope this is clear.

What is binding on me, instead, is the standard Yoruba account (which interestingly is also corroborated independently by the standard and “official” Benin account) which states that Oranmiyan came to Benin for the purpose of establishing a dynastic monarchy.

So, if this account which states that Eweka is the Yoruba man who came from Ife to rule the Binis is what you subscribe to and not the standard and “official” Benin account, then you’ve just simply transitioned from frypan to fire.

In other words, all you did is simply to identify a different Ife source through which “Ogun” worship found its way into the Edo nation.
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Having said that however, if one is to be fair to the overwhelming vast majority of the extant Benin traditional accounts on this subject, it becomes obvious then to realize that the 1897 account simply conflated the father (Oranmiyan) with his son (Eweka), especially as Eweka (and not Oranmiyan) eventually became the first Oba according to standard extant Yoruba and Benin accounts.

Is this supposed to be an angry reaction to the fact that I exposed you to be a closet gay?

. Staged by Tinubu or who? Remember that your AwOlOwO-straw has already been shattered. So, hurry up in your search for a new candidate.

First of all, Ewuare 1 did not bring any “idol” from anywhere. You have to stop deluding yourself and yet believing it.

Secondly, my whole point about Ewuare 1 is that your inane criterion of proof by non-oral accounts is simply dumb and self-contradictory.

This is because you agree that Ewuare 1 lived despite the fact that the only historical proof of his existence is the body oral traditional accounts about him. I hope you now see my whole point about your dumbness and double standard.

Moreover, if the dedication of an ancestral altar to a certain Ewuare 1 is the needed proof that the said Ewuare 1 existed, then what does this same criterion tell you about the dedication of ancestral altars to Oduduwa and Ogun in Ife?

Even you yourself must have perceived the stench of your own double-standard and dumbness at this point.

But for emphasis though, the dedication of ancestral altars is obviously by itself not a proof that the dedicatee really lived.

How do we know for certain that the altar was not simply dedicated originally to a fictional entity? To clarify this would obviously require resort to oral narrations again. So you're back to square one.

In sum then, the actual historical proof of existence for such entities as Oduduwa, Ogun, Ewuare 1, et al. (in the obvious absence of any eyewitness written account about them) is the vast body of (exaggerated or unexaggerated) oral accounts which identifies them as historical personages.

It is interesting how you often get carried away by my lectures to the point that you forget the argument you were originally defending.

Your original argument was that “Ogun” is not indigenous to Ife. However, you’ve just been caught now affirming that Ogun was one of the aboriginal “sixteen elders” of Ife – the very argument you had initially set out to reject.

You seem to have been focused desperately and irrationally on rejecting the notion that Ogun ruled as King in Ife to the detriment of your own original argument that Ogun is not indigenous to Ife.

Having highlighted your fundamental contradiction here, it is important that I make the following clarifications in respect of Ogun as King in Ife as seen in “TABLE II” of your own attachment, and as seen in my quotation of Professor Akintoye’s reference to the relevant Yoruba traditional accounts:

(1) The reference to Ogun as King in Ife is in clear relation to Ogun as a human and historical personage. Refer again to “TABLE II” of your attachment, as well as to my quotation of Professor Akintoye’s reference to the relevant traditional account.

(2) The reference to Ogun as one of the aboriginal elders of Ife as shown in your attachment here, on the other hand, is in clear relation to Ogun as one of the aboriginal deities “who descended with Oduduwa” in the earliest beginnings. Refer to the same page of your attachment here for this context.

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980

I never said the benin-ife was bind on ife or yoruba people, i have always been making it known that the benins were the ones who took the steps to destroy their own history by bringing the yorubas into it, in a bid to get cultural and political favour, during the creation of nigeria

Taoles, are you now saying if the myth binds with the other various account then the myth becomes truthful..... Lol desperado

You dummy, neither did i call my precious monarch unprintable names, like i said the oba benin knows the truth but they decided hide it, from their people not to spoil their little game they playing


Post me the 1897 article which says oba of benin came from ife


TAO11 if you want to debate on the ife benin connections please telll me, i have a past thread i made solely for that purpose so stop distracting me..... If you need to argue on that tell me i will pull out the thread and we have it there


You foolish lady, that cant get a hold of herself because we benins ransacked her people to the bush and ruled over them cry me tears because i will keep telling everybody i meet yorubas were benin slaves



I hate it when i feel you drawing me out to kill Boredom or debating with males to achieve your festish desires, because they are some topics we shouldnt be discussing anymore, one is the benin-ife myth, so you keep bringing it up makes me wonder if you're psycho or something


Come out straight and let's digout once and for all, on the benin-validity, if you wont then shut your trap for ever and stop equating anything we share in common with the mumu ife myth of oromiyan

TAO11:
To think this is coming from my slave who must seek my permission before he wears clothes.

Really!? And what makes you think telling me this will help any of the moronic 'arguments' you should be defending?

You’re a Janus-faced fatuous little Edo liar for telling this outright lie. No wonder you didn’t bother pretending to have any supporting evidence for it.

For the sake of the sane reader who cares for nothing but the truth, please note that the deification of Olokun among the Edos is only as a male deity. The Edos simply do not worship Olokun as a female deity.

The following reference is to a peer-reviewed academic journal article dedicated exclusively to the deity “Olokun” among the Edos:

Norma Rosen, “Chalk Iconography in Olokun Worship”, African Arts Vol. 22. No. 3 (May 1989), pp. 44-88.

In this above-referenced journal article, Norma Rosen (who is not only a scholar but also an Olokun initiate) clearly identifies Olokun to be a male deity among the Edos.

Not once did he mince words in this regard throughout this article dedicated solely to the subject of Olokun among the Edos. For example, the opening statements of this article from which Olokun’s gender in the context of Edo worship is clearly identified reads as follows:

“The Edo people of Nigeria believe that Olokun, god of the sea, is a powerful and benevolent deity who can bring children, health, riches, and other blessings to those who worship him. One of his praise names is Oba n’ Ame No Se No Rre Oke (The King of the Sea is Greater Than the King of the Land). Olokun has a place of cowries in his kingdom beneath the sea, but the oba (King) of the lad does not. A popular worship song praises his omnipotence: Ai ghi gbe oba n’ ame/ I vba oba n’ ame mwen (You do not fight the king of the water/ I come to meet the king of the water for help).”

If the bolded is in anyway true, then you have just publicly announced one of the sources of your PTSD.

In other words, you simply became traumatized when you later found out that your childhood was dedicated to serving a Yoruba deity. Now I’m beginning to understand why you’re always frustrated. I advise that you spend more time with a therapist than on Nairaland.

Having said that, it is important to remind you again that you simply lied as usual when you remarked that you “know this [for a] fact” that Olokun is worshipped by the Edos both as a male deity and as a female deity.

The evidence from the above-cited work of Norma Rosen (a scholar and Olokun initiate) has already exposed you as a liar.

Also, your expression of doubt in your foregoing block of comment where you said: “probably husband and wife” clearly contradicts your expression of certainty here where you said: “I … served … I know this fact”.

Of course, Oduduwa is a deity – because he was deified. Name me one academic source which supports your moronic joke that Oduduwa never existed.

Moreover, it isn’t merely my personal claim that Oduduwa was deified. Instead, this is the obvious age-long and widely-known Yoruba (and Bini) reality. Lol.

For example, the historian B.A. Agiri quoted a declaration of an Ijebu man in the year 1901 in response to the then emerging modern Oyo hegemonic tendencies to shift the Yoruba capital (not cradle – Oyo never at any point thought of itself as the Yoruba cradle) from Ife towards itself. B.A. Agiri writes:

“In 1901 an Ijebu man found it necessary to make an emphatic declaration on Yoruba history:

I deny that Oyo is the capital city of Yoruba land. Ife, the cradle home of the whole Yorubas and the land of the deified Oduduwa, has been recognised by every interior tribe (including Benin and Ketu) for all intents and purposes as the capital city.*“

B.A. Agiri, “Early Yoruba History Reconsidered”, History in Africa, 1975, Vol. 2 (1975), p.1.

It is clear from the foregoing 1901 declaration of the Ijebu man (eight years before Obafemi Awolowo’s birth) that Oduduwa was admitted into the Yoruba pantheon after his life – this is the precise significance of the word deify as used here.

I really hope it wasn’t Obafemi Awolowo who (while still a 'baby in heaven') forced this poor Ijebu man to make this declaration.

Now that your regular AwOlOwO-straw has been shattered, would you now begin a fresh search for another modern Yoruba leader to clutch at as the ‘brain’ behind the prevalence of Oduduwa and Ife in general Yoruba thought?

May be Tinubu would be your new song, who knows!? Anyways, good-luck to you on your new search.

Firstly, I have demonstrated in the foregoing section that Oduduwa is a deified entity. In otherr words, he is an historical personage that was admitted into the Yoruba pantheon after his life.

Secondly, nowhere does the Yoruba people of Ketu (in today’s Republic of Benin) claim that Oduduwa’s gender was mistaken.

I have provided a detailed explanation specifically on this (see: [url=]HERE[/url]) where I differentiated between a deity on one hand, and the actual person whose name the deity came to bear on the other hand.

Your comprehension level must be very base to still be getting these two conflated despite the obvious distinction. Or are you simply pretending to be dumb?

The Yorubas in general deified Oduduwa as a male deity. The Yorubas of Ketu deified Oduduwa as a female deity. The Yorubas of Benin kingdom (i.e. the Oba’s family, et al.) deified Oduduwa as both a male deity and a female deity.

The deification of Oduduwa (just like the deification of Olokun, et al.) has no definite bearing on the actual gender of the persons whose names these deities came to bear.

If a moronic dunce like yourself feel the need to make baseless assertions of course without any supporting evidence, then an efficient thinker like myself can justifiably dismiss such assertions also without having to provide any evidence.

Reference: Christopher Hitchens: “Hitchens’s Razor”[/I].

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980

Not to loose any point because of your useless meaningless lengtgi writeups i will have to answer all this your jargon systematically


I never said the benin-ife was bind on ife or yoruba people, i have always been making it known that the benins were the ones who took the steps to destroy their own history by bringing the yorubas into it, in a bid to get cultural and political favour, during the creation of nigeria

[i]Taoles, are you now saying if the myth binds with the other various account then the myth becomes truthful..... Lol desperado

You dummy, neither did i call my precious monarch unprintable names, like i said the oba benin knows the truth but they decided hide it, from their people not to spoil their little game they playing

gregyboy:
Lol � please no one should take this lady serious,

Wow! I guess I gave you a bloody nose that you are now forced to beg the readers not to listen to me.

What about you present an argument to counter mine (if you have any) rather than resorting to begging??

i finshed her on olokun thread she and her brother...

Except if the a new meaning has just been updated for the word "finish".

Here are the links to your topic which you created on Olokun, et al. You created the first one using your @gregyboy moniker, and I wiped the floor with your face thereon. https://www.nairaland.com/5846195/benins-owners-ogboni-confraternity-olokun

You then rushed to create a similar thread again using your @Edeyoung moniker, and still didn't pity you. I messed you up there too.

https://www.nairaland.com/5910322/olokun-worship-indigenous-2-benins/2#90662198

I basically chase you away from your own threads using nothing but evidence, proof, and superior ratiocination.

Lol don't mind her likes, is not showing true reality, if you know you know, the people giving her the likes are bunch of yoruba loosers who are full of tearful behind the screen because am bursting are bubbles... Lol

I wish there is a way I to gift you those likes I received. perhaps that would boost your low self-esteem a bit.

Yorubas are cowards

According to Captain H.L. Gallwey (1893), it is in fact the Binis who can not possibly be described by the word "brave". See page 128.

Anyway dont twist my words, and don't try to confuse people too by telling lies. Olokun is an edo worship anyone who got the time should visit my profile for the thread,warning, it will too graphical for any yorubas who visit

I am not surprised that you dared not post the links to the supposed Olokun threads. Anyways, I have exposed you by posting it.

And the killer question which knocked off all your lies is as follow: If Olokun is indigenous to the Edos, can you then break down the word "Olokun" into its component parts, and give the Edo meaning of each part?

After sometime of running around and desperately avoiding the question, you finally mustered the courage to lie. You said "Olo" means "goddess" in Edo. What!?

While there is no such Edo word as "olo", let alone signifying "goddess"; the worship of "Olokun" among the Edos is as a male deity (and not a female deity) as I have shown from Norma Rosen's, “Chalk Iconography in Olokun Worship”.

Moreover, the video below shows one of your own -- a curator of one of your Museums admitting in unmistaking terms (without the usual Edo insecurity and inferiority) that Benin deities are originally from Yorubaland. Refer specifically to timestamp 1:26


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqso2h2gRDw

Olokun is two people male and female, living together, husband and wife, the male olokun poses only males, while the female olokun posses only the female,

This is a grossly false and unfounded statement as Norma Rosen's article, dedicated exclusively to the worship of Olokun among the Edos, have shown.

The screenshot below shows a benin man on chalk describing how he was poses by a female olokun diety making him behave like a lady

He specifically said a female olokun deity and and not a male olokun deity

No screenshot below. Moreover, any identification female deification of Olokun is certainly not in the context of Edo worship. The Yorubas (and not the Edos) deify Olokun as both a male deity and a female deity.

So oduduwa na big time, or a pure diety that never existed and worship by ife people

This has devastatingly shattered in one of my foregoing replies.

Lol the bolded makes me laugh did oduduwa even exist in the first place mad woman

More like asking me if through a Nairaland comment if Nairaland exists. In any case I have replied this in detail in one of my earlier replies.

You think we are your fellow yorubas that one useless myth would unite them

Having shattered your AwOlOwo-straw, I wish you good luck in your search for a new candidate.

Please i want my yoruba wanna be cousins to follow me in my next thread i want to further burst you guys bubbles

Yoruba want be cousins Wait ... your cousins who are Yoruba wanna-be.

Somebody just admitted that Edos are truly and indeed Yoruba wannabe!

Cheers!

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980

gregyboy:
[s]I never said the benin-ife was bind on ife or yoruba people, i have always been making it known that the benins were the ones who took the steps to destroy their own history by bringing the yorubas into it, in a bid to get cultural and political favour, during the creation of nigeria

Taoles, are you now saying if the myth binds with the other various account then the myth becomes truthful..... Lol desperado

You dummy, neither did i call my precious monarch unprintable names, like i said the oba benin knows the truth but they decided hide it, from their people not to spoil their little game they playing

Post me the 1897 article which says oba of benin came from ife

TAO11 if you want to debate on the ife benin connections please telll me, i have a past thread i made solely for that purpose so stop distracting me..... If you need to argue on that tell me i will pull out the thread and we have it there

You foolish lady, that cant get a hold of herself because we benins ransacked her people to the bush and ruled over them cry me tears because i will keep telling everybody i meet yorubas were benin slaves

I hate it when i feel you drawing me out to kill Boredom or debating with males to achieve your festish desires, because they are some topics we shouldnt be discussing anymore, one is the benin-ife myth, so you keep bringing it up makes me wonder if you're psycho or something

Come out straight and let's digout once and for all, on the benin-validity, if you wont then shut your trap for ever and stop equating anything we share in common with the mumu ife myth of oromiyan[/s]

Rants of a dying slave.

Anyways, I’m glad you couldn’t address a single thing from all my comments here.

Moreover, stop asking for the very things I’ve already made available to you on this same thread and from which you’ve fled till date.

Find another means of saving face from the heavy disgrace I’m blessing you with.

Also, there is not one single thread you’ve created that I did not disgrace you from. I literally chase you away from your own threads.

I dare you to post any link to any of your thread where I didn’t chase you away with evidence, proof, and reason.

gregyboy:
[s]Not to loose any point because of your useless meaningless lengtgi writeups i will have to answer all this your jargon systematically


I never said the benin-ife was bind on ife or yoruba people, i have always been making it known that the benins were the ones who took the steps to destroy their own history by bringing the yorubas into it, in a bid to get cultural and political favour, during the creation of nigeria

Taoles, are you now saying if the myth binds with the other various account then the myth becomes truthful..... Lol desperado

You dummy, neither did i call my precious monarch unprintable names, like i said the oba benin knows the truth but they decided hide it, from their people not to spoil their little game they playing[/s]

Another Reminder:

Your replies reeks simply of sorrows, tears and misery.

It is my pleasure to have wiped the floor with your face. Next time you know your class.

Moreover, I’m glad you couldn’t address a single thing from all my comments here.

Also, stop asking for the very things I’ve already made available to you on this same thread and from which you’re on the run till date.

Find another means of saving face from this disgrace which I’m forcing you and your 2by2 kingdom to go through publicly.

Moreover, there isn’t one single thread that you’ve created which I did not disgrace you from. I literally chase you away from your own threads.

I dare you to post any link to any of your thread where I didn’t disgrace you and chase you away with evidence, proof, and reason.

TAO12:
Continuation 2:

First of all, it isn’t merely my personal claim to say that Oranmiyan came to Benin for the purpose of establishing a dynastic monarchy there.

Instead, this is the standard traditional Yoruba account and also the standard and “official” traditional Benin account.

So, are you really standing by your statement that the current Oba of Benin, Omo n’Oba Ewuare II, is a dummy? Because he also admits this same historical fact just as his ancestors.

Moreover, this is the standard narrative in historical scholarship just as you have seen in my above reference to the work of the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime.

If you must hold a view contrary to this standard Yoruba traditional account, standard Benin traditional account, and established position of historical scholarship; then you must be wiling to present an extraordinary, redoubtable, and firmly established body of evidence in order to be regarded as sane.

Just as I have once schooled two of your brothers on this before, an account collected from Benin is not binding on me unless it agrees with other vast independent corroborating accounts.

If this account quoted in H.L. Roth, 1903 (but collected from Benin in 1897) must be binding on anyone, then it is a Bini whom it must be binding on, not a Yoruba. I hope this is clear.

What is binding on me, instead, is the standard Yoruba account (which interestingly is also corroborated independently by the standard and “official” Benin account) which states that Oranmiyan came to Benin for the purpose of establishing a dynastic monarchy.

So, if this account which states that Eweka is the Yoruba man who came from Ife to rule the Binis is what you subscribe to and not the standard and “official” Benin account, then you’ve just simply transitioned from frypan to fire.

In other words, all you did is simply to identify a different Ife source through which “Ogun” worship found its way into the Edo nation.
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Having said that however, if one is to be fair to the overwhelming vast majority of the extant Benin traditional accounts on this subject, it becomes obvious then to realize that the 1897 account simply conflated the father (Oranmiyan) with his son (Eweka), especially as Eweka (and not Oranmiyan) eventually became the first Oba according to standard extant Yoruba and Benin accounts.

Is this supposed to be an angry reaction to the fact that I exposed you to be a closet gay?

. Staged by Tinubu or who? Remember that your AwOlOwO-straw has already been shattered. So, hurry up in your search for a new candidate.

First of all, Ewuare 1 did not bring any “idol” from anywhere. You have to stop deluding yourself and yet believing it.

Secondly, my whole point about Ewuare 1 is that your inane criterion of proof by non-oral accounts is simply dumb and self-contradictory.

This is because you agree that Ewuare 1 lived despite the fact that the only historical proof of his existence is the body oral traditional accounts about him. I hope you now see my whole point about your dumbness and double standard.

Moreover, if the dedication of an ancestral altar to a certain Ewuare 1 is the needed proof that the said Ewuare 1 existed, then what does this same criterion tell you about the dedication of ancestral altars to Oduduwa and Ogun in Ife?

Even you yourself must have perceived the stench of your own double-standard and dumbness at this point.

But for emphasis though, the dedication of ancestral altars is obviously by itself not a proof that the dedicatee really lived.

How do we know for certain that the altar was not simply dedicated originally to a fictional entity? To clarify this would obviously require resort to oral narrations again. So you're back to square one.

In sum then, the actual historical proof of existence for such entities as Oduduwa, Ogun, Ewuare 1, et al. (in the obvious absence of any eyewitness written account about them) is the vast body of (exaggerated or unexaggerated) oral accounts which identifies them as historical personages.

It is interesting how you often get carried away by my lectures to the point that you forget the argument you were originally defending.

Your original argument was that “Ogun” is not indigenous to Ife. However, you’ve just been caught now affirming that Ogun was one of the aboriginal “sixteen elders” of Ife – the very argument you had initially set out to reject.

You seem to have been focused desperately and irrationally on rejecting the notion that Ogun ruled as King in Ife to the detriment of your own original argument that Ogun is not indigenous to Ife.

Having highlighted your fundamental contradiction here, it is important that I make the following clarifications in respect of Ogun as King in Ife as seen in “TABLE II” of your own attachment, and as seen in my quotation of Professor Akintoye’s reference to the relevant Yoruba traditional accounts:

(1) The reference to Ogun as King in Ife is in clear relation to Ogun as a human and historical personage. Refer again to “TABLE II” of your attachment, as well as to my quotation of Professor Akintoye’s reference to the relevant traditional account.

(2) The reference to Ogun as one of the aboriginal elders of Ife as shown in your attachment here, on the other hand, is in clear relation to Ogun as one of the aboriginal deities “who descended with Oduduwa” in the earliest beginnings. Refer to the same page of your attachment here for this context.

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980

Lol , samuel johson untied yorubas with the mythical ife, when he wrote the history of the yorubas in 1897, but that couldn't hold them because most of the yorubas couldn't read his book or have access to it, awolowo who read the book, finally achieved samuel johson aim.... To frictional unite the yoruba into one ancestory in a bid to stop the yoruba civil war and the enemity it created,
Samuel johson saw that all yorubas spoke a similar language tho not from the same ancestory
All he did was to unite them under some mythical history of a diety from ife, Oduduwa was a diety at ife he was worshiped as a god, and not the newly invented eledumare guy, the eledumare was brought in recently to accompany
That oduduwa existed as a king on earth


TAO11 clap for me i be guru

[s]

TAO12:
Another Reminder:

Your replies reeks simply of sorrows, tears and misery.

It is my pleasure to have wiped the floor with your face. Next time you know your class.

Moreover, I’m glad you couldn’t address a single thing from all my comments here.

Also, stop asking for the very things I’ve already made available to you on this same thread and from which you’re on the run till date.

Find another means of saving face from this disgrace which I’m forcing you and your 2by2 kingdom to go through publicly.

Moreover, there isn’t one single thread that you’ve created which I did not disgrace you from. I literally chase you away from your own threads.

I dare you to post any link to any of your thread where I didn’t disgrace you and chase you away with evidence, proof, and reason.

[/s] Tao12 is an unrepentant fraud that spends his entire pathetic existence scouring the internet space for articles to Misinterpret and bend to fit his Inferiority complex induced sense of importance

Whoever is behind this Tao handle needs psychiatric help

[s]

TAO12:
Another Reminder:

Your replies reeks simply of sorrows, tears and misery.

It is my pleasure to have wiped the floor with your face. Next time you know your class.

Moreover, I’m glad you couldn’t address a single thing from all my comments here.

Also, stop asking for the very things I’ve already made available to you on this same thread and from which you’re on the run till date.

Find another means of saving face from this disgrace which I’m forcing you and your 2by2 kingdom to go through publicly.

Moreover, there isn’t one single thread that you’ve created which I did not disgrace you from. I literally chase you away from your own threads.

I dare you to post any link to any of your thread where I didn’t disgrace you and chase you away with evidence, proof, and reason.

[/s] Tao12 is scared to shits now to even mention me

I don suffer this beach!! ....Tao12 is this not your ijebu women flying their breasts?