belgiumiron:
Well... I will like to drop my little input.

The truth is, right from time, there has always been light and darkness. And if we are to follow the Christian teachings, which is what we are doing here, then Jehovah God is the Head of both sectors (light and darkness).

However, i will treat "Lucifer" here as an existing entity.

And for those in these thread that are trying to influence others by saying that "Lucifer" is not real but just some name the king james version coined some 400 years ago, i just laugh at you guys because you don't know what you are saying. "Lucifer" is real!

Back to the topic, ofcourse, there is a force that is far more darker than Lucifer. These dark force is so ancient and powerful that it has the power and ability to sniff out negative thoughts even from spiritual beings and use these same thoughts found in these beings, to corrupt and convert these beings to the dark side or forces.

It was these ancient dark force that sought out Lucifer through Lucifer's hunger thoughts of the ambition to rule and to be worshipped by both spirit and man.

But what he never realized, was that the Holy God/Universal Being/Supreme Being/etc, is the only supreme being that can put such a powerful force into check and as well use such dark force at his will.

These same dark force is still in Lucifer and other dark beings and some fraction of her power is what the left hand part followers do tap into from time to time, to use for empowering some of their works.

I will end here and say no more.

Peace...

Deep

Dtruthspeaker:

Next time when you experience that sensation of jumping out of your skin, do try to remember who is bailing out and who is being left behind!

would that be Lucifer jumping out of me?

delkuf:
Christian and islam have no unique historical similarities. There is no connection between light and darkness

They both told the stories of Adam and Eve that's one unique historical similarities!
Your hatred is just against yourself...
I see an embittered personality...

qwertyboss:

They both told the stories of Adam and Eve that's one unique historical similarities!
Your hatred is just against yourself...
I see an embittered personality...

Let me jump in here. They both tell the story but so does the Book of Jasher, but you didn't quote that book.

I believe in this, one had to consider the many differences in the claims recorded from each source.
On Satan, the Bible, particularly the old testament does not record him as the evil being that many today have taken to believing him to be. Then yo mix that with the claim that He was some powerful jinn who won power, and you have the entire story bouncing on one finger - it no longer holds.

Kobojunkie:
Let me jump in here. They both tell the story but so does the Book of Jasher, but you didn't quote that book.

I believe in this, one had to consider the many differences in the claims recorded from each source. On Satan, the Bible, particularly the old testament does not record him as the evil being that many today have taken to believing him to be.

He wasn't evil before but when God striped him of all his honours by casting him out he became a sworn enemy of Adam and his descendants.
He swore right in the presence of God after asking God to spare him till the end time which he was granted, so he swore with the sovereignty of God that he will mislead all the descendants except those whom God had protected and God said both the mislead and he Satan shall dwell in hell

qwertyboss:

He wasn't evil before but when God striped him of all his honours by casting him out he became a sworn enemy of Adam and his descendants.
He swore right in the presence of God after asking God to spare him till the end time which he was granted, so he swore with the sovereignty of God that he will mislead all the descendants except those whom God had protected and God said both the mislead and he Satan shall dwell in hell

I asked you for a source earlier. And even now, I still require one. I watch "Supernatural" too. Sam and Dean Winchester have had me as a fan since the very beginning of the show(2005), but I would never quote anything I hear on that show as fact because I know it is all fiction.

You have to please provide the source for all the claims you keep making of the character on question.

Kobojunkie:

I asked you for a source earlier. And even now, I still require one. I watch "Supernatural" too. Sam and Dean Winchester have had me as a fan since the very beginning of the show(2005), but I would never quote anything I hear on that show as fact because I know it is all fiction.

You have to please provide the source for all the claims you keep making of the character on question.

I haven't watch any supernatural, am neither quoting but digressing facts from religious scriptures.
What you are perceiving as quotation was a quranic verse describing the conversation that took place between God and satan.
The Quran and bible are what am conversant with to a certain extent

sonmvayina:

Please don't,. You are not making any sense..

if you say so..

qwertyboss:

I haven't watch any supernatural, am neither quoting but digressing facts from religious scriptures.
What you are perceiving as quotation was a quranic verse describing the conversation that took place between God and Satan.
The Quran and bible are what am conversant with to a certain extent

the information on the subject from these sources at obviously not compatible.
The old testament account of Satan has him as a servant of God. Your story of him as a powerful jinn does not work with what the old testament says about him.

ThreeEyedRaven:
Hello everyone.

I had a WhatsApp group call with three of my friends. James, Wale and Goke (In case any of you is reading this, hi guys, you guys are smart I enjoyed the conversation ) where we discussed the origin of sin.

My position was that there's a greater or darker power that corrupted Lucifer. I mean looking at a logical analysis of Ezekiel 28:15
which I'll quote "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

It is important to put in mind that angels were created before the earth and man subsequently. They were perfect beings created to serve God.

About Lucifer. He was one of the most admirable angels in heaven.

My questions were/still are:
Where was sin before it was found in Lucifer ?
Lucifer was created perfect meaning imperfections came to him due to an interaction with an/some external factor(s)

Also, God created the angels perfect but however didn't confine them to worshipping him like some robots but rather gave them choices to worship him out of their freewill. Now it's important to establish that God is a God of righteousness of which while creating the angels he did that by installing all the righteous features in them by default meaning sin was an external and uninvited guests to the party. So doesn't these all mean that there's always been another end to the righteousness spectrum before Lucifer got tempted and defected to the other side?

They weren't able to convince me maybe you can

once there is a law there is either obedience or transgression. it may not be sin to take your dad's car keys until he makes it a law that no one should do it without his conscent. As for God, righteousness and Justice are the foundations of His throne.
Then, if your lust( passion) and desire to have what you shouldn't have is greater to you than the commandment, you become a transgressor.
you are tempted by your lusts, and this brings about sin and then death.
Satan uses this strategy; that's why he appeals to people's lusts as a way of deceiving them to sin: he has been there before.

Kobojunkie:
the information on the subject from these sources at obviously not compatible.
The old testament account of Satan has him as a servant of God. Your story of him as a powerful jinn does not work with what the old testament says about him.

Only if you could lay your hands on the original manuscript

qwertyboss:

Only if you could lay your hands on the original manuscript

what original manuscript?

qwertyboss:

They both told the stories of Adam and Eve that's one unique historical similarities!
Your hatred is just against yourself...
I see an embittered personality...

You guys copy and paste the story of the Bible but twisted it a little bit. Christianity and islam have no unique historical similarities. light and darkness cannot coexist

Kobojunkie:
what original manuscript?

No no
You need to expand your horizons regarding the chronological evolution of what you are reading today " the new testment "

qwertyboss:

No no
You need to expand your horizons regarding the chronological evolution of what you are reading today " the new testment "

Chronological evolution of the new testament? We are talking of the Old testament, not even the new at all.

And according to the Old, Satan was created by God as well and since God is ALL-Powerful, meaning every power is subject to Him .i.e. He controls all power, it could never make sense that somehow Satan was able to rise up against God is any way or form.

delkuf:
You guys copy and paste the story of the Bible but twisted it a little bit. Christianity and islam have no unique historical similarities. light and darkness cannot coexist

Oh I see

That's what you are brainwashed into to believe...
Little do you wonder why there's intermittent release of new version of the Bible,,,
To further interpolate to suit your desires.
Even the entire bible apart from the red letter parts are not the word of Jesus.
Learn without prejudice and but pure intents and you will be guided.
Case study: you are seeing the pictures of the virgin marry in your church every Sunday, please did your women in any manner look like her in terms of dressing?
But how about those Muslim women wearing hijab?
Read between the lines and think.

qwertyboss:

Oh I see

That's what you are brainwashed into to believe...
Little do you wonder why there's intermittent release of new version of the Bible,,,
To further interpolate to suit your desires.
Even the entire bible apart from the red letter parts are not the word of Jesus.
Learn without prejudice and but pure intents and you will be guided.
Case study: you are seeing the pictures of the virgin marry in your church every Sunday, please did your women in any manner look like her in terms of dressing?
But how about those Muslim women wearing hijab?
Read between the lines and think.

If they like let muslim woman wear anything they like, one thing I know is quran is the book of darkness, from the pit of hell, so the Bible does not share the same historical similarities with it

Kobojunkie:
Chronological evolution of the new testament? We are talking of the Old testament, not even the new at all.

And according to the Old, Satan was created by God as well and since God is ALL-Powerful, meaning every power is subject to Him .i.e. He controls all power, it could never make sense that somehow Satan was able to rise up against God is any way or form.

Satan didn't rise up against God!
He was outcasted because of his arrogance, and he knowing fully that he's done sought after the cause of his downfall. That's where the apple saga begins in Eden and till date, till end time he will continue seeking to destroy the children of Adam.
He know more than anyone his place in hell and the irreversible word of God against him. So he is

delkuf:
If they like let muslim woman wear anything they like, one thing I know is quran is the book of darkness, from the pit of hell, so the Bible does not share the same historical similarities with it

You are right!

qwertyboss:

Satan didn't rise up against God!
He was outcasted because of his arrogance, and he knowing fully that he's done sought after the cause of his downfall. That's where the apple saga begins in Eden and till date, till end time he will continue seeking to destroy the children of Adam.
He know more than anyone his place in hell and the irreversible word of God against him. So he is

The apple saga?

You are still telling me a story that is not recorded anywhere in the old testament about the Satan character.
The one who will continue to see to destroy Children of Adam, according to the Bible, is the serpent.

Kobojunkie:
would that be Lucifer jumping out of me?

funny man! Nope.

But if you are looking to see Satan, this is the most common way you get to discover him.

Next time you get into trouble, serious trouble and you were so motivated to get into it, which you did and it blows up in your face, then you wondered how and why you are the only one bearing the trouble?

That's when you know he was inside of you, for he will put you in trouble and Accurately Abandon JUST IMMEDIATELY before your judgement comes on you.

qwertyboss:

Satan wasn't an angel but from amongst the angels.
He was a jinn who attained a higher position amongst the angels.
Angels have no power to commit sins, they only act according to the command of God.
But the jinn and humans have conscience...
Satan was jealous of Adam because he thought he was greater that Adam due to the status he attained and when God commanded all the angels to postrate to Adam, he Satan Did not postrate.
When God asked Satan "why didn't you postrate " he said " because I am better than him (arrogance)...
I was created from fire while he was created from mud "

I thought we were being serious here!

Dtruthspeaker:
funny man! Nope.
But if you are looking to see Satan, this is the most common way you get to discover him..

I have no business with Satan and he has no business with me.

Dtruthspeaker:
Next time you get into trouble, serious trouble and you were so motivated to get into it, which you did and it blows up in your face, then you wondered how and why you are the only one bearing the trouble?

This does not happen to me at all.

Dtruthspeaker:
That's when you know he was inside of you, for he will put you in trouble and Accurately Abandon JUST IMMEDIATELY before your judgement comes on you.

I don't believe your description in any way fits the description given of Satan in the Bible, particularly in the Old Testament though. Satan, as described in the Old Testament, is a Servant of God... sort of like a quality control manager of sorts.

qwertyboss:

Satan didn't rise up against God!
He was outcasted because of his arrogance, and he knowing fully that he's done sought after the cause of his downfall. That's where the apple saga begins in Eden and till date, till end time he will continue seeking to destroy the children of Adam.
He know more than anyone his place in hell and the irreversible word of God against him. So he is

There's no Apple saga on any records bro. As a matter of fact some people believe that the tree in middle of the garden refers to what Davido called Sweet in the middle. It exposes you to good (pleasure and procreation when rightly done and lust, when not done wrongly ) yes I mean sex. Though this theory is not verified

HedwigesMaduro:


I thought we were being serious here!

Omo me ma confuse

Lalasticlala, Mynd44, Seun we need more lights

Kobojunkie:
I have no business with Satan and he has no business with me.
This does not happen to me at all.

Ah! I have forgotten for a while that you are A Liar and even against Nature, you would still Like! And you have still not changed. Ok, I'll try and remember.

You can Lie with your lips but you can not deceive me, the Truth of your much predicaments is even in your comments, yet You Lie!

I am not your judge, your Lying is useless to me for it is seen and known that every man born into this world suffers much travail until he learns and Walks in the way of the Lord!

Kobojunkie:

I don't believe your description in any way fits the description given of Satan in the Bible, particularly in the Old Testament though. Satan, as described in the Old Testament, is a Servant of God... sort of like a quality control manager of sorts.

We've had this argument before and you could not rebut and your problem is that you do not know how to use your spirit.

Therefore, if it is not explicitly written, you will never see it.

The Destroyer in Exodus was sent to do his job, he did it and there is no talk anywhere of his being condemned, So also the Angel sent against David and Isreal.

God has never condemned anyone for obeying him, not even once BUT HE HAS ALWAYS CONDEMNED THE DISOBEDIENT, WHICH IS WHY REVELATIONS CLEARLY TELLS YOU THAT IN THE END SATAN IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE together with those humans who disobeyed the Lord.

But you would not listen, you even called Revelation "a dream that that never happens and the events there will never happen.

Well, like Somvayina, the Bible is a Novel, not to be lived by, so there is no need to argue with you and I am beginning to think that like Somvayina, you do not believe in the Bible.

Csonice1:


once there is a law there is either obedience or transgression. it may not be sin to take your dad's car keys until he makes it a law that no one should do it without his conscent. As for God, righteousness and Justice are the foundations of His throne.
Then, if your lust( passion) and desire to have what you shouldn't have is greater to you than the commandment, you become a transgressor.
you are tempted by your lusts, and this brings about sin and then death.
Satan uses this strategy; that's why he appeals to people's lusts as a way of deceiving them to sin: he has been there before.

Tell them, tell them!

delkuf:
Christian and islam have no unique historical similarities. There is no connection between light and darkness

They are the two sides of life, one can't exist without the other...

FYI.. God created both.

Kobojunkie:
Chronological evolution of the new testament? We are talking of the Old testament, not even the new at all.

And according to the Old, Satan was created by God as well and since God is ALL-Powerful, meaning every power is subject to Him .i.e. He controls all power, it could never make sense that somehow Satan was able to rise up against God is any way or form.

You Don dey get sense small small..

sonmvayina:


They are the two sides of life, one can't exist without the other...

FYI.. God created both.

Your opinion. I can never agree that both are the same

delkuf:
Your opinion. I can never agree that both are the same

it is not a function of what you believe...god created both
Isaiah 45:7

sonmvayina:


it is not a function of what you believe...god created both
Isaiah 45:7

So because the Lord says he created evil that means the Bible and quran are the same. like I said your opinion but I will never agree that the Bible and the quran are the same