Blabbermouth:
With the Old testament only, proof that Jesus was "Divinity become Humanity"


If you are a witness, proof (with the old testament only) that Jesus was " Angel become Human"

DrLiveLogic:



Blabbermouth, I don't know what more you want me to do. Questions #3 -#9 are clearly outlined in my last post. #1 & #2 are in my second to last post on your thread.

If you don't wanna answer the questions #1-#9, cause you can't for now, it's fine. My aim is to show you the loopholes in your theology. So just go on and give it a further thought. Maybe when I open a thread on the subject, we would look at some blind spots.

Blabbermouth:
With the Old testament only, proof that Jesus was "Divinity become Humanity"


If you are a witness, proof (with the old testament only) that Jesus was " Angel become Human"

butterfly777:


You are even wrong from your question.

Jesus Christ was not angel become human. He was God, who took human form.

Emusan:


Lying liar! He didn't even know his own demonic translation has the word MYSELF

"This is what Jehovah says, your Repurchaser, Who formed you since you were in the womb: “I am Jehovah, who made everything. I (Yahweh) stretched out the heavens BY MYSELF, And I (Yahweh) spread out the earth. Who was with me?"



BEFORE HIS WORKS OF OLD....wo the speaker can't be the first created when he's already exists before the first work begins.



You're still drowning in your delusions.

Was God lying in Isaiah that He did it ALONE and BY HIMSELF and also in Job that "when I"?

Why will God say such when in reality someone was there helping Him?



Isn't your WISDOM the master worker of whatever you do?

Can you do anything without your wisdom?

bloodofthelamb:

Jehovah witness are hell bent on believing their own lies or they simply have comprehension issue. The person who was speaking was before Gods earlier creation which means he cannot be a created being.

Maximus69:


Just go and read only Proverbs 8:22 alone using different versions of the Bible then come back and tell us if the person speaking wasn't part of the creation!

bloodofthelamb:


You are simply saying that there was a time in the existence of God that He was without wisdom. This is the implication of your theology. Jehovah witness is simply saying that wisdom which is one of God is not eternal as He is.

You are simply saying that God was simply foolish and without wisdom until he created and produce it. You are saying that God's wisdom is not eternal as God is. We all can agree that wisdom is the one speaking in Proverb 8 or do you disagree? If this is so, then God is not self sufficient.

Maximus69:


Your PERSONAL opinion Sir!

Jesus (Michael) in his prehuman existence is the one speaking not some imaginary wisdom Sir!

There was never a time God began possessing WISDOM as an attributes, it has always been his own, just like all other attributes like POWER, JUSTICE, LOVE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS and many more.

The person speaking @ Proverbs 8:22-31 is a separate entity telling us the part he played during creation that's all! John 1:1-5

It was Trinitarians who misinterpreted John 1:1 where they rendered it "and the word was God" instead of "and the word was a god"

But all these is just paperwork arguement Sir, go and make use of the wisdom your God possessed to unite all of you just as Michael (Jesus) prayed for his followers saying "they should be one" as in having the same line of thought! John 17:21-23

Jehovah's Witnesses who claims that Jesus is angel Michael have succeeded in forming one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers, whereas LOOK! Politics and Racism is devastating all other religions! Luke 11:23

Maximus69:

So the phrase "By myself" appeared in that Bible book we are discussing shey?
Well Jehovah always say so because he's the master brain behind creation but as regards all his works Jehovah always make use of his intelligent creatures giving them the privilege to participate. When he wanted to deliver Israel from slavery he first of all trained Moses (a violent man) to become the meekest man before using him, he made him like a God!
Today God is bringing all people together as one but he is using humans to achieve this, the same way he used Michael during creation!

Of course Jesus (Michael) is his first creature so Michael could say "before everything else i was born" {Proverbs 8:24-25} so the same person explained what he meant by "before his works of old"

This is what Blabbermouth keep saying, you're now imputing your own interpretation here, the person speaking is not some imaginary wisdom but an entity on his own otherwise he couldn't have been asked to sit at God's right hand if he's not a separate person! Psalms 110:1

Maximus69:
Your PERSONAL opinion Sir!

Jesus (Michael) in his prehuman existence is the one speaking not some imaginary wisdom Sir!

There was never a time God began possessing WISDOM as an attributes, it has always been his own, just like all other attributes like POWER, JUSTICE, LOVE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS and many more.

The person speaking @ Proverbs 8:22-31 is a separate entity telling us the part he played during creation that's all! John 1:1-5

It was Trinitarians who misinterpreted John 1:1 where they rendered it "and the word was God" instead of "and the word was a god"

But all these is just paperwork arguement Sir, go and make use of the wisdom your God possessed to unite all of you just as Michael (Jesus) prayed for his followers saying "they should be one" as in having the same line of thought! John 17:21-23

Jehovah's Witnesses who claims that Jesus is angel Michael have succeeded in forming one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers, whereas LOOK! Politics and Racism is devastating all other religions! Luke 11:23

bloodofthelamb:
Well detailed.

bloodofthelamb:


You are simply saying that there was a time in the existence of God that He was without wisdom. This is the implication of your theology. Jehovah witness is simply saying that wisdom which is one of God is not eternal as He is.

You are simply saying that God was simply foolish and without wisdom until he created and produce it. You are saying that God's wisdom is not eternal as God is. We all can agree that wisdom is the one speaking in Proverb 8 or do you disagree? If this is so, then God is not self sufficient.

Emusan:


Which one is your own opinion?



This is good since you boldly say it's Jesus speaking, now let's look into the text of that Prov 8 and see if it's not YAHWEH Himself speaking.

ANALYSIS OF PROV 8

10 Receive my (Wisdom/Jesus) instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

Where was Jesus ever issue instruction in the OT? No where we only know about Yahweh instructions.

13 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I (wisdom/Jesus) hate.

We all know only Yahweh ever said to hate evil, pride and arrogant people.

15 By me (wisdom/Jesus) kings reign, and princes decree justice.

16 By me (Wisdom/Jesus) princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.

This is what only YAHWEH know for not any created being.

17 I love them that love me (Wisdom/Jesus); and those that seek me (Jesus) early shall find me.


This even nailed your dull brain because it's only YAHWEH people have been SEEKING not a created being, doing so will amount to idolatry.

18 Riches and honour are with me (Jesus); yea, durable riches and righteousness.

Whereas it's only YAHWEH who possesses RICHES and Honor.

21 That I may cause those that love me (Jesus) to inherit substance; and I (Jesus) will fill/bless their treasures.

This is your Jesus claiming to be the one blessing people the only prerogative known about Yahweh throughout the OT.



That's why we've been telling you that it was the ETERNAL WISDOM of Yahweh speaking there not a created being, that was the time YAHWEH BROUGHT FORTH His own wisdom to create heavens and earth which is the reason Yahweh can authoritative says He created heavens ALONE and BY HIMSELF.



But the same person speaking said

"26 While as yet he(Yahweh) had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he( Yahweh) prepared the heavens, I was there: when he(Yahweh) set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he(Yahweh) established the clouds above: when he(Yahweh) strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he(Yahweh) gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he(Yahweh) appointed the foundations of the earth:

When the speaker can simply say, "When I was commanded to establish the clouds above or I was commanded to appoint the foundations of the earth."



How does this relate to John 1:1?

All these verses in the scripture that confirmed Jesus deity always hitting you people hard.



Another Mumbo jumbo!

No wonder, divorce is rampage in your midst and even parent can prevent their daughter from marrying another witness.



The same family that hates each other but only pretending to love each other in the Hall.

At least you agreed it's your demonic organization who CLAIMED JESUS is Michael and not the Holy Scripture.

DrLiveLogic:

Thanks.

LMAO. Only JWs like Maximus69 and Janosky with all the wisdom they have believe that God had wisdom from time immemorial to create but he had to first create Wisdom(Jesus) to help him create. Confused lots. Their god was either lacking wisdom and hence a foolish god who despite his foolishness was still able to create wisdom that he didn't have or their god is jobless and creating wisdom he already had to help him create. Despicable!


Thank you guys for saving me stress. I wanted to do exactly this later. These people's beliefs are so irrational and they call those who really believe the bible, irrational. What a commendation from them. LMAO!

bloodofthelamb:

Jehovah witness are hell bent on believing their own lies or they simply have comprehension issue. The person who was speaking was before Gods earlier creation which means he cannot be a created being.

Janosky:


Proverbs8:22

"Lord Jehovah created* me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works". *


Bros, what is the meaning of Hebrew Qanah in Psalms 139:13, Proverbs 8:22 and Genesis 14:19,22 ?

Triune pagan deity devotees, Continue deceiving yourselves

butterfly777:


You are even wrong from your question.

Jesus Christ was not angel become human. He was God, who took human form.

bloodofthelamb:


So you are saying there was a time in the existence of your Jehovah that he was foolish and unwise until he produce and created wisdom for himself.

Maximus69:

This shows you've been deceiving yourself for so long!

Once you are aware that people can quote out of context, it means you too need to know the correct application of what you're quoting in the Bible Sir!

DrLiveLogic:

Thanks.

LMAO. Only JWs like Maximus69 and Janosky with all the wisdom they have believe that God had wisdom from time immemorial to create but he had to first create Wisdom(Jesus) to help him create. Confused lots. Their god was either lacking wisdom and hence a foolish god who despite his foolishness was still able to create wisdom that he didn't have or their god is jobless and creating wisdom he already had to help him create. Despicable!


Thank you guys for saving me stress. I wanted to do exactly this later. These people's beliefs are so irrational and they call those who really believe the bible, irrational. What a commendation from them. LMAO!

bloodofthelamb:


So you are saying there was a time in the existence of your Jehovah that he was foolish and unwise until he produce and created wisdom for himself.

bloodofthelamb:

They're foolish, irrational and blind. There only line of defense is to claim that the one speaking or is portrayed speaking isn't wisdom which is fraudulent because from the beginning of Proverb 8 it is clear who is speaking.

Proverbs 8:3 , is Wisdom is personified as woman?

Proverbs 8:22-30, Wisdom is a master craftsman.
Bros, woman dey do master craftsman?
Una, Trinitarians, know say Jesus Christ is the wisdom personified in Proverbs8:22-30, but una pride no let una confess Jesus is a creature, the Son of Hebrews1:2.
("Firstborn of every creature",so says the New Testament).

Dubiously fraudulent Triune pagan deity devotees

Image123:


Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Blabbermouth:

The scripture says
1. Unto us a child is born.
That child is a human child (I.e. baby Jesus)
Then it continues and says
2."The government SHALL be upon his shoulder. His name SHALL be called "
Commentary:The same Human child will

Blabbermouth:

The scripture says
1. Unto us a child is born.
Commentary: That child is a human child (I.e. baby Jesus)
Then it continues and says
2."The government SHALL be upon his shoulder. His name SHALL be called "
Commentary:The same Human child will then become
3. Wondeful counsellor, Mighty God.....
[b]Commentary: The Human child shall become a God
Your scripture proves the opposite I.E. Humanity become Divinity.[/b]
That's not what we want, we need Divinity(I.e God) become humanity(human).

Only Yahweh could have revealed that Truth to you

DappaD:


Noo noo don't try to twist everything to make JWs look bad biko.
The above is what you and your trinity cohorts have been insinuating ever since the start of this thread—except you're not bright enough to realise this.

Jehovah's Witnesses from their in-depth study of the Bible, together with other Scriptures such as John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:15-17 and Revelation 3:14, have come to understand that the writer of Proverbs 8 had somebody in mind when he was inspired by Jehovah to put his thoughts in writing—that person being the first creature that God created—Jesus Christ(archangel Michael).
We know that Jehovah God has always existed from eternity and He has always been wise (Psalm 93:2, 104:24)—that's why we can't classify the wisdom at Proverbs 8 to be an abstract form of wisdom—rather that chapter is referring to a person by the name of Jesus Christ(the archangel Michael)


It is you and your trinity friends who've been saying that God hasn't always been wise. Don't try to twist it.

bloodofthelamb:

All those scriptures you put up there didn't prove that God created Jesus Christ. It's highly impossible that God created Jesus through Jesus because the same Colossians 1:16 says, For by(through) Him(Jesus) all(all means all with no exception) things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth visible and invisible (nothing was exempted here) whether thrones or dominion or principalities or power. All(again "all" is being reemphasized) things were created through Him and for Him.

It is either you guys have comprehension issues or you guys are playing the devils advocate. If God really created Jesus at the beginning as you people believe then, it will be He created Him through Him.

bloodofthelamb:

They're foolish, irrational and blind. There only line of defense is to claim that the one speaking or is portrayed speaking isn't wisdom which is fraudulent because from the beginning of Proverb 8 it is clear who is speaking.

bloodofthelamb:

All those scriptures you put up there didn't prove that God created Jesus Christ. It's highly impossible that God created Jesus through Jesus because the same Colossians 1:16 says, For by(through) Him(Jesus) all(all means all with no exception) things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth visible and invisible (nothing was exempted here) whether thrones or dominion or principalities or power. All(again "all" is being reemphasized) things were created through Him and for Him.

It is either you guys have comprehension issues or you guys are playing the devils advocate. If God really created Jesus at the beginning as you people believe then, it will be He created Him through Him.

Bros, what's the meaning of Greek 1223 @ Colossians 1:16, @ John 1:3, @ Hebrews1:2?
("A proposition denoting a channel ,Agent for an act". For instance, You bought house through your Lawyer.
Who owns the house?
Trinitarians say na Lawyer

Emusan:


Lying liar! He didn't even know his own demonic translation has the word MYSELF

"This is what Jehovah says, your Repurchaser, Who formed you since you were in the womb: “I am Jehovah, who made everything. I (Yahweh) stretched out the heavens BY MYSELF, And I (Yahweh) spread out the earth. Who was with me?"



BEFORE HIS WORKS OF OLD....wo the speaker can't be the first created when he's already exists before the first work begins.

Proverbs 8:29-30 "The master craftsman" was created before Yahweh's work of heaven and earth

Isaiah 44:22 ,Job38:1-7, Ephesians 4:6 and Romans 11:35-36,
WAYO man who is the Creator?

Greek 1223 @ John 1:3, @ Hebrew 1:2 , @ Col1:16, go remove am from your Bible
.

Did Yahweh rescued Israel Through someone?
Yes.

Did Yahweh save the world through someone?
Yes

Did Yahweh give the tablet of Laws through someone?
Yes

Did Yahweh created the Universe THROUGH someone?
Yes.

Greek 1223 @ John 1:3, @ Hebrew 1:2 , @ Col1:16,
WAYO man, go remove am from your Bible
.

DappaD:


Can you speak on behalf of the beliefs/tenets of DrLiveLogic? Or does he have his own definition of your trinity god?


What's up with the other thread—seems you ran away

Blabbermouth:
With the Old testament only, proof that Jesus was "Divinity become Humanity"


If you are a witness, proof (with the old testament only) that Jesus was " Angel become Human"

AntiChristian:



Which should I know? Is the Jw.org meaning or the other 1001 denominational meanings?