For those of you who care about real science and not some "Afrocentric" delusion, take the time to read the genetic study below

The "white" Berbers are very related to Saharan people and people from East Africa

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947357/?tool=pubmed


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947357/figure/F5/

I mean this one is my last:

@ Kilode:

Yes, I'm Berber, Kabyl more precisely which is the biggest "sub-tribe" of Berbers in Algeria.
About Islam, as you can imagine, I totally disagree with what you said : A religion is much more of a serious matter than a mere choice or a trend. That's another debate but for the records keep in mind that North Africa has almost never been under the rule of central Islamic state and the Islamic local states were almost always berber or "Black" (The almighty Almoravide state that ruled on West, North Africa and  Andalusia started in Senegal by locals. It's the preacher/founder of this particular state who made part of Nigerians muslims).

By white I mean that I have a reddish/blond beard and green brown eyes.

The traditional Berber culture is a tribal culture where the guy of the next tribe is a total stranger even if he looked like you and spoke your language, so black people were no exception even if the "adoption" mechanisms were a lot easier than nowadays. Now if it's about racism in the modern sense, I think (I'm not sure) that it is more present now than before, unfortunately (black people were associated in the popular mind of many to the brutal French Legionaire).

My mother speaks berber, arabic and french (the last two since she went to school) but some special type of arabic and french lol

Voilà!

Algerian:

I mean this one is my last:

@ Kilode:

Yes, I'm Berber, Kabyl more precisely which is the biggest "sub-tribe" of Berbers in Algeria.
About Islam, as you can imagine, I totally disagree with what you said : A religion is much more of a serious matter than a mere choice or a trend. That's another debate but for the records keep in mind that North Africa has almost never been under the rule of central Islamic state and the Islamic local states were almost always berber or "Black" (The almighty Almoravide state that ruled on West, North Africa and Andalusia started in Senegal by locals. It's the preacher/founder of this particular state who made part of Nigerians muslims).

By white I mean that I have a reddish/blond beard and green brown eyes.

The traditional Berber culture is a tribal culture where the guy of the next tribe is a total stranger even if he looked like you and spoke your language, so black people were no exception even if the "adoption" mechanisms were a lot easier than nowadays. Now if it's about racism in the modern sense, I think (I'm not sure) that it is more present now than before, unfortunately (black people were associated in the popular mind of many to the brutal French Legionaire).

My mother speaks berber, arabic and french (the last two since she went to school) but some special type of arabic and french lol

Voilà!

In ancient times in all of Africa you could find something similar. If you are from a different tribe/ethnic group then you are a stranger regardless of what the person looked like. White, Black or otherwise

sage:

The Barbary slave trade took place a few hundred years ago during the same time as the Trans-Atlantic slave thread up until the 1800's. It is a very recent event and does not have much to do with what we are talking about.

The "white" berbers are African and this is proven by science. their attitude towards "black" Africans is of no relevance to science

Ok, I asked for the time-period clarification because you mentioned it.

Now, I personally don't care what Berbers, Touregs or any group call themselves. I don't own Africa and I don't own culture. But my dignity, respect and personal liberty is mine to protect. So if someone, group of people, race, or whatever sees my skin color as inferior and acts towards me based on that feeling of superiority, then I'll have an issue regardless what science, politics or geography calls them. I don't even care if we share the same mother. It's all the same to me.

That was the basis of my worry from my first post on this thread.

I was worried that using Dark skinned mercenaries(from the pics and comments on the report) might lead to race/color based attacks or discrimination as it often occurs in the Arab world where dark skinned people are historically and culturally seen and treated as inferior.

I don't care if Berbers are from Fernando po or my mothers village. Do they see dark skinned folks as inferior? If they do? Then I'm on their case everywhere and watching out for them. That's all

Kilode?!:

Ok, I asked for the time-period clarification because you mentioned it.

Now, I personally don't care what Berbers, Touregs or any group call themselves. I don't own Africa and I don't own culture. But my dignity, respect and personal liberty is mine to protect. So if someone, group of people, race, or whatever sees my skin color as inferior and acts towards me based on that feeling of superiority, then I'll have an issue regardless what science, politics or geography calls them. I don't even care if we share the same mother. It's all the same to me.

That was the basis of my worry from my first post on this thread.

I was worried that using Dark skinned mercenaries(from the pics and comments on the report) might lead to race/color based attacks or discrimination as it often occurs in the Arab world where dark skinned people are historically and culturally seen and treated as inferior.

I don't care if Berbers are from Fernando po or my mothers village. Do they see dark skinned folks as inferior? If they do? Then I'm on their case everywhere and watching out for them. That's all

I understand what you are saying but it looks like two different convesations are going on at the same time. The attitudes of Berbers towards others is the topic you are asking about which a Berber is probably in the best position to answer but my replies were directed towards another discussion which is the history of Berbers which some afrocentric americans are trying to revise

By the way, Ghadaffi is using Mercenaries from Egypt, Algeria, Chad and even Asian countries to fight against his own people

Kilode?!:

I was worried that using Dark skinned mercenaries(from the pics and comments on the report) might lead to race/color based attacks or discrimination as it often occurs in the Arab world where dark skinned people are historically and culturally seen and treated as inferior.

Yeah, like you can do anything about that one NOW, since it has been happening for well over a thousand years.

Black people seem to be the ones fooling themselves with this dna genetic marker crap. I dont see other races carrying carrying it on their heads like nigerians. An algerian even came on here to tell you he is white and you`ve still asking if he`s european white or berber white. Smh at the situation.

You`re still asking i meant to say.

tpiah!:

Black people seem to be the ones fooling themselves with this dna genetic marker crap. I dont see other races carrying carrying it on their heads like nigerians. An algerian even came on here to tell you he is white and you`ve still asking if he`s european white or berber white. Smh at the situation.

Your lack of exposure beyond Nairaland might be responsible for such ignorant statement, perhaps!

tpiah!:

Black people seem to be the ones fooling themselves with this dna genetic marker crap. I dont see other races carrying carrying it on their heads like nigerians. An algerian even came on here to tell you he is white and you`ve still asking if he`s european white or berber white. Smh at the situation.

What has that got to do with what we are talking about?

He is a Berber white so are we supposed to jump into an ocean, clap our hands or perform gymnastics lol

Acknowledging that he is a Berber does not mean anybody is fooling himself. I dont care if he calls himself "white" or not. He can call himself blue for all I care

Fooling yourself can de defined as adopting crazy American "Afrocentric" ideas from people who dont know what they are talking about

tpiah!:

Black people seem to be the ones fooling themselves with this dna genetic marker crap. I dont see other races carrying carrying it on their heads like nigerians. An algerian even came on here to tell you he is white and you`ve still asking if he`s european white or berber white. Smh at the situation.

You dont see an Algerian or a Morroccan claiming that because people in Norway are white and because he is white also, the accomplishment of Norweigians are his own?

You dont see people in Japan claim Chinese history as their own and you dont see Japanese people claiming Chinese history because they look similar


its mainly Afrocentric morons that go around doing insanely silly stuff like that

Algerian:

I mean this one is my last:

@ Kilode:

Yes, I'm Berber, Kabyl more precisely which is the biggest "sub-tribe" of Berbers in Algeria.
About Islam, as you can imagine, I totally disagree with what you said : A religion is much more of a serious matter than a mere choice or a trend. That's another debate but for the records keep in mind that North Africa has almost never been under the rule of central Islamic state and the Islamic local states were almost always berber or "Black" (The almighty Almoravide state that ruled on West, North Africa and  Andalusia started in Senegal by locals. It's the preacher/founder of this particular state who made part of Nigerians muslims).

By white I mean that I have a reddish/blond beard and green brown eyes.

The traditional Berber culture is a tribal culture where the guy of the next tribe is a total stranger even if he looked like you and spoke your language, so black people were no exception even if the "adoption" mechanisms were a lot easier than nowadays. Now if it's about racism in the modern sense, I think (I'm not sure) that it is more present now than before, unfortunately (black people were associated in the popular mind of many to the brutal French Legionaire).

My mother speaks berber, arabic and french (the last two since she went to school) but some special type of arabic and french lol

Voilà!

Thanks for responding bro.

First, maybe you misspoke earlier, you spoke about faith and religion and said "you are what you choose to be" you explained why you are now with your brothers in faith. I agreed when I responded.

So I don't understand where we disagree again. I have your full quote below (bolded) I don't care about your religion bro. I bet you don't care about mine. Except you want to worship Sango and serve Ifa and the Orisas, Then I'll welcome you.

glad you responded on the color thing, ok so you are North Africa "white", I get the picture now.

Als to Uthman Dan fodio,( im sure hes the one you were trying to refer to as a founder in Northern Nigeria, no? ) I'll leave that to the Hausas and Kanuris that were subdued by him and his Empire to speak about that.

Ok I have an idea of how your people view darker skinned people now. I'll continue the conversation elsewhere, when i meet another Algerian. Thank you.

Algerian:


Personnally, I don't care about the 3rd term issue. I think that a good leader should be able to stay as long as he's the best in the place (which Bouteflika isn't, but well can't blame him for that).
Before Islam and "arabization" (the last being very recent in our national history), I wasn't there   Well, more seriousely, I'd say that Islam brought a wonderful idea : You're what you chooe to be not what you happen to be, so I keep respect for my forefather but I feel closer to my brothers in faith in the first place.

Fstranger let me be, sheesh. Go stalk someone else.

Kobojunkie:

Yeah, like you can do anything about that one NOW, since it has been happening for well over a thousand years.

No lady Kobo, I can't do anything about it. I'm totally inferior to white and lighter skinned people, also I readily submit myself to their attacks and discrimination. It gives me a high when they mistreat and abuse me to my face. I very much enjoy their condescension and I'm always willing to cower in their presence and ensure my children do the same.

Well, if you went to meet them in their villages, in this case, northern africa, what do you expect.

Kilode?!:

No lady Kobo, I can't do anything about it. I'm totally inferior to white and lighter skinned people, also I readily submit myself to their attacks and discrimination. It gives me a high when they mistreat and abuse me to my face. I very much enjoy their condescension and I'm always willing to cower in their presence and ensure my children do the same.

Well . . . good for you!

P.S -- I am not a lady!

Kobojunkie:

Well . . . good for you!

P.S  -- I am not a lady!

Fine. Thank you Madam.

^^ Why do you need to inject GENDER into your posts? Why not simply address the point made? That you see an 'f' right next to a person's name does not mean you know the person or what the person is. I am only telling you since i think you are relatively new still . . . 

Anyways, back to the issue  . . .  Again, your outrage is over 1000 years late.  If you have a problem with some North Africans thinking you an inferior being, maybe you ought to go confront them for not thinking of your person the way you want them to instead.

tpiah!:

Black people seem to be the ones fooling themselves with this dna genetic marker crap. I dont see other races carrying carrying it on their heads like nigerians. An algerian even came on here to tell you he is white and you`ve still asking if he`s european white or berber white. Smh at the situation.

Hahaha!! I was thinking the same thing.

@Kobo, Sorry, I thought "f" meant female on NL

Also my questions were already answered, so i'm satisfied for now. And I believe I already responded to your post up there.

Kilode?!:

No lady Kobo, I can't do anything about it. I'm totally inferior to white and lighter skinned people, also I readily submit myself to their attacks and discrimination. It gives me a high when they mistreat and abuse me to my face. I very much enjoy their condescension and I'm always willing to cower in their presence and ensure my children do the same.

You should have known Kobo by now.

She is a blind hater of everything Black!

tpiah!:

Fstranger let me be, sheesh.  Go stalk someone else.

When next you try to start something you cannot handle, I hope you always remember the last few weeks and how I have made life unbearable for you, that you had to go back to delete some of your posts. When next you try to put your mouth into things of no concern to you, always think about the long term repercussion.


Always remember that, for every Tpiah , there is an Fstranger. 

fstranger3:

You should have known Kobo by now.

She is a blind hater of everything Black!

Haha onijongbon! I don hear.

Fstranger your grandiosity is getting worrisome. I did not delete my posts on your account, ok. I deleted them because you people are trying to play childish games and i do not like sneakiness. In any case, the world doesnt revolve around you, so stop preening yourself little boy. Lmao. Go find someone else to amuse with your immature antics jare. Idioto.

tpiah!:

Fstranger your grandiosity is getting worrisome. I did not delete my posts on your account, ok. I deleted them because you people are trying to play childish games and i do not like sneakiness. In any case, the world doesnt revolve around you, so stop preening yourself little boy. Lmao. Go find someone else to amuse with your immature antics jare. Idioto.

Is this all you could do. After 24 hrs, this is all you could come up with? Next time just be careful jumping into something that has not to do with you.

When next you want to use the word grandiosity, make sure it applies, failure to understand the context and usage of certain words,like grandiosity in this case, you risk coming off as stupidd.

Hi!

[quote="Kilode?!"]Thanks for responding bro.

First, maybe you misspoke earlier, you spoke about faith and religion and said "you are what you choose to be" you explained why you are now with your brothers in faith. I agreed when I responded.

So I don't understand where we disagree again. I have your full quote below (bolded) I don't care about your religion bro. I bet you don't care about mine. Except you want to worship Sango and serve Ifa and the Orisas, Then I'll welcome you. Cheesy

glad you responded on the color thing, ok so you are North Africa "white", I get the picture now.

Als to Uthman Dan fodio,( im sure hes the one you were trying to refer to as a founder in Northern Nigeria, no? ) I'll leave that to the Hausas and Kanuris that were subdued by him and his Empire to speak about that.

Ok I have an idea of how your people view darker skinned people now. I'll continue the conversation elsewhere, when i meet another Algerian. Thank you.
[/quote]

You're welcome!

What I disagreed with is when you said that religion is a choice "rooted in the close affinity they (people) have for what they believe is theirs, just like you have for Islam so I respect that.", clearing from the way any spiritual progress that transcends the individual conditions. To say it differently, being this or that to seek some glory or to stand against some imaginary or real oppressors (ego) is nothing like being it because it resolves the questions : why are we here and where are we heading to?, questions that can't be answered without leaving aside that individual ego.

I wasn't talking about Uthman Dan Fodio but about someone earlier than that, about Abu Bakr ibn Umar Lamtuni, one of the founders of the Almoravid dynasty (1040-1147) that made it to Nigeria according to some records.

Finally, I don't know if I was somehow clumsy talking about how my people view darker skin people, but to show you how it's really difficult to tell I remember that I argued once with a friend (Algerian "white" too, who lived in a town 30km distant from mine) about  if there's actually any racism in Algeria against black people, and we totally disagreed on that! I think that the best answer that I should gave is that's unfortunately a non-issue for most people there even for the black Algerians and I'm pretty sure that you'll never find any Algerian saying that he will be glad to kill black people as it was said right here about Arabs/North Africans,

Hey!

Algerian:

Hi!

You're welcome!

What I disagreed with is when you said that religion is a choice "rooted in the close affinity they (people) have for what they believe is theirs, just like you have for Islam so I respect that.", clearing from the way any spiritual progress that transcends the individual conditions. To say it differently, being this or that to seek some glory or to stand against some imaginary or real oppressors (ego) is nothing like being it because it resolves the questions : why are we here and where are we heading to?, questions that can't be answered without leaving aside that individual ego.

I wasn't talking about Uthman Dan Fodio but about someone earlier than that, about Abu Bakr ibn Umar Lamtuni, one of the founders of the Almoravid dynasty (1040-1147) that made it to Nigeria according to some records.

Finally, I don't know if I was somehow clumsy talking about how my people view darker skin people, but to show you how it's really difficult to tell I remember that I argued once with a friend (Algerian "white" too, who lived in a town 30km distant from mine) about  if there's actually any racism in Algeria against black people, and we totally disagreed on that! I think that the best answer that I should gave is that's unfortunately a non-issue for most people there even for the black Algerians and I'm pretty sure that you'll never find any Algerian saying that he will be glad to kill black people as it was said right here about Arabs/North Africans, 

Great!

First, I do not recollect anyone saying they will be glad to kill Arabs/North Africans. I must have missed it. So many conversations going on here earlier. I do not support that kind of racial violence talk. Not at all, except in self defense. Sorry if you read that here bro, you know how silly people get on the Internet sometimes.

Thanks for the added info on Abu Bakr Lamtuni. Ive actually read a bit about him, the early Islamic incursion into the southern Sahara and of course Nigeria and their influence on Present day Nothern Nigeria. Intriguing history. But ultimately I'll prefer to listen or read a conversation between an indigenous Hausa/Kanuri and yourself about the impact of that Early Jihad and the effects on their culture, language, Social norms and religion.

As per Religion. I understand you. Not everyone picks a religion by choice, yes, but at some point we all make a choice to believe in whatever faith we want. The practice of it may now be viewed as a progression of faith in the spiritual sense with little consideration for personal earthly choices.

In essence, some of my people were born into the religion of their ancestors, they have their own God and their own belief, different from Christianity or Islam. While I don't think majority of those who pursue the vocation of their faith do so in protest against some perceived "oppressors" based on "ego" I'm sure there may be a few who do that. Especially those born outside the continent with no prior knowledge about Our religion. But it's their choice and I wish them well in their faith.

It's like a man converting back to Islam after studying about it, that happens also. So on the philosophical point about choice, I get your point. I believe choice is still a factor though, especially for converts and adults, we can agree to disagree on that little point.

Interesting insight about the conversation with your Algerian friend. Hopefully I will get an opportunity to learn more about the different cultural attitudes.

I'm sure the first light skinned explorers in my part of Africa were viewed as different and maybe inferior at some point, I'm certain there are still people who hold that view as wrong and ignorant as it is, It's still an human reaction. acting on it to limit peoples access to basic fairness and dignity is where sensible people disagree.

Can we go back to the Libyan revolt for a second. I heard eastern city of Benghazi has been liberated, but Gadaffi and his sons are mauling peaceful protesters down with fighter jets, gathering the corpses, and burning everything to hide evidence.
I know Gadaffi is psychiatric, but his sons

is anyone else watching aljazeera now this man is delusional

This man is justifying his actions !!!

Well, did anyone expect him to go down quietly like mubarak? I didnt.

He has been rambling for about one hour now.

He says instability in Libya will give Al Quaeda a foothold.