Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,194,280 members, 7,954,108 topics. Date: Friday, 20 September 2024 at 12:28 PM

Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions - Islam for Muslims (6) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions (9252 Views)

Questions For The Sunni/salafi And Shia / Vedaxcool Please Answer:Who Is The Sunni 'Imam Of The Time'? / Is It Safe To Call Yoruba Muslims Shite Muslim While Hausa Muslims The Sunni Mus (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (Reply) (Go Down)

Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by Sweetnecta: 10:15pm On Mar 23, 2011
@LAgosshia;Thanks for your insight.

did you notice that Allah says in the bold [100], that garden has been prepared for them?

if almost all the sahabahs are excluded by just a sin or two after the passing of the messenger [as], which of the sahabah will enter paradise, thereafter;

more hardly to believe, which people after that generation [ra to the true mujahiruun and the ansar] will enter paradise, when no one is a masoom except the prophets [as] who Allah protected for their work as bringer of His Messages?

show me a shia or a sunni that is sinless, if there is any? i will love to read about his or her life, including all published on public materials.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 10:44pm On Mar 23, 2011
Sweetnecta:

@LAgosshia;Thanks for your insight.

did you notice that Allah says in the bold [100], that garden has been prepared for them?

if almost all the sahabahs are excluded by just a sin or two after the passing of the messenger [as], which of the sahabah will enter paradise, thereafter;

more hardly to believe, which people after that generation [ra to the true mujahiruun and the ansar] will enter paradise, when no one is a masoom except the prophets [as] who Allah protected for their work as bringer of His Messages?

show me a shia or a sunni that is sinless, if there is any? i will love to read about his or her life, including all published on public materials.

you're welcome!

and also read the following verse 9in sequence) about those whom a "painful doom" was prepared.

9:101 And (however) among the ARABS AROUND YOU ARE HYPOCRITES, and
       also among the people of Madina (there are some who) persist
       in hypocrisy whom you (O Muhammad) DO NOT KNOW. We, We know
       them, and We shall punish them twice; then they will be sent to
       a painful doom.

the issue here is the fact that whoever changes for good,that is taken as repentance and Allah will reward him well.and those who change for bad Allah will punish.

asking me who will enter paradise and who will enter hell is not for me to say.i am not Allah.one thing is for sure.you asked for it and i provided you with a sunni hadith from bukhari where the Prophet himself foretold how some of his companions would be dragged away from paradise because of the things they did after him.so since this hadith is from your own hadith book,do you know who those are?

i believe you cant say or you will not say.whatever the case,i as a good muslim can only identify the grave sins and bad actions of those companions and the evil committed after the Prophet.when we are talking about that,i am not simply talking about personal sins and how no one shia or sunni is free from sin.i am talking about heinous crimes committed against others and not actions like lying,stealing or not praying and fasting.we are talking here of heinous crimes.these crimes particularly include the crimes committed against the Prophet's Family and innocent muslims.for example,the Prophet said Fatima is from me and I am from Fatima, may Allah be pleased with those who please her and may Allah be angry with those who anger her.this is a serious swear by the Prophet.it is unanimously recorded and agreed that Sayyida Fatima died in a state of anger against abu bakr.She even ordered her husband to bury her at night and not to inform anyone so that those who hurt her would not carry her corpse or pray on her burial.this was at a time when abu bakr had assumed the office of caliph.

how do you think when you're told that the "1st caliph and successor of the Prophet" was unaware of the burial of the Prophet's only surviving daughter because she was angry with him?what do you say?

whether abu bakr will end up in hell or heaven is totally another discussion that we need to examine the Quran and various hadiths and ofcourse everything depends on Allah firstly and on the wish of those he offended whether or not to forgive him or for Allah to reward him with punishment.as for us muslims,i cannot be expected to like or love someone who hurt the daughter of Allah's messenger.i cannot love such a person or show any sympathy for him because i am aware of his injustice and i fear that if i pity for such a person i will displease Allah because i am directly or indirectly supporting oppression against the Messenger of Allah himself.from all indications,Fatima is Muhammad and Muhammad is Fatima!if you love him you will love her.i cannot ask Allah to be "pleased" with someone who hurt the Messenger.i cannot defend someone like that.infact to show my dissatisfaction and to free myself and vindicate my conscience,i send the curse of Allah upon anyone who has displeased Sayyida Fatima and ofcourse through pain caused to her hurt the Prophet himself.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by Sweetnecta: 11:54pm On Mar 23, 2011
^^^^^^ Thanks lagosshia;

i read all that you wrote. may Allah open our eyes and give each one of us great idayah. Amin.

Allah has stated that the sin He will not forgive if one dies on it is Shirk, alone.

other sins are forgivable if Allah wills.

there is only one last prophet, just as there is Only One God the Judge Who chose the sahabah for the messenger [as].

there is a known fact that the messenger [as] gave the good news of paradise to many of his companions [as] while he was alive.

it is also known that he gave ten names of hypocrites to a specific trusted sahabah.

all of these 10 hypocrites died after the messenger [as] who instructed that each of the hypocrites will be known because this very trusted companion will not come to the funeral of any of them.

we also know that while Abu Bakr [ra] did not pray in the masjid of the hypocrite and did not take the zakat of that wealthy hypocrite, when he died, the trusted sahabah [ra] did not stay away from his funeral.

Umar, Uthman, Ali were all murdered. how can we say that the good news of paradise that the messenger [as] gave to these people [ra] except for Ali [ra] is wasted? Worse, that the statement of Allah in Taubah verse 100, is now incorrect? I read 101 and from my ability to reason, and your explanation, i did not find any of these people to be destined for hell fire because their 'disagreements' with Fatima and or Ali {ra}.

Allah is the Only Knower and he is the Only One that determines who will end up in Hell. I find it impossible to accept that the prophet [as] will be a husband of a woman who will end up in Hell and his closest companions are destined for hell, too, while Allah does not give us a clear indication of that in the Quran, as in the case of the earlier prophets who say the evil people from their family destroyed.

We in Islam say the awariyun of prophet isa bin Maryam [as] were believers. How is it that we say the closest companions of the last prophet [as] are 'hypocrites", considering that the leader deserves those he leads? and the followers deserve the leader that leads them? what are we saying of the prophet then, in this case?

May Allah forgive each of our shortcomings. Amin. For me i say Allah chose the best leader [as] for the best companions [ra]. Thanks for the dialogue.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by illusion2: 6:31am On Mar 24, 2011
LagosShia:

the population still remains 70:30 in favor of shia when you disregard the foreigners and the illegal settlers.if you add the numbers,you will get the figures the monarchy use to justify having a higher percentage of sunni representation in the bahrain parliament.they will shamelessly tell you the population is 50:50.the parliament has 40 members and only 18 are shia!

as for the exact figures,i do not have the exact statistics at the moment.but the reality remains that sectarian discrimination is present in bahrain and politically motivated naturalizations have taken place and are the pace setters.do you want to deny that?
This just conforms what I have been saying. You have absolutely no idea of what you are saying.

You just come on NL & post hearsay on NL. Confirming you have no figures to back up your claim ,just shows how obtuse your reasoning is.

The Shia : Sunni ratio has remained constant for over 30 years (if not increased in favour of Shia),the gerrymandering of voting districts by the govt is wrong , but is based on geography & not population ! We have the not so similar unfair & mind boggling system in Nigeria ,where the House of Reps members from OLD KANO STATE are more than all the House of Reps members from the entire South-South. Should we start killing hausa people. 

A review of the Bahraini map will confirm this. Shias are concentrated in mainly in the Northern Governorates,while the Southern (the largest geographically is Sunni) the others are shared,so your asking people to be killed on a false premise is based on rumours and I will ask the moderators for your IP so you can be traced and charged for inciting racial hatred & genocide in Kingdom of Bahrain.

On migration, official statistics show that more than 90% of recently naturalised(IN LAST 30 YEARS) are Shia - mainly women from Iran married to Iranian  Bahrainis.

I'll get back to you with a police charge sheet for your crimes against humanity,
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by Lagosboy: 8:15am On Mar 24, 2011
illusion2:

This just conforms what I have been saying. You have absolutely no idea of what you are saying.

You just come on NL & post hearsay on NL. Confirming you have no figures to back up your claim ,just shows how obtuse your reasoning is.

The Shia : Sunni ratio has remained constant for over 30 years (if not increased in favour of Shia),the gerrymandering of voting districts by the govt is wrong , but is based on geography & not population ! We have the not so similar unfair & mind boggling system in Nigeria ,where the House of Reps members from OLD KANO STATE are more than all the House of Reps members from the entire South-South. Should we start killing hausa people.

A review of the Bahraini map will confirm this. Shias are concentrated in mainly in the Northern Governorates,while the Southern (the largest geographically is Sunni) the others are shared,so your asking people to be killed on a false premise is based on rumours and I will ask the moderators for your IP so you can be traced and charged for inciting racial hatred & genocide in Kingdom of Bahrain,where I was a proud resident until 2 years ago.
[b]
On migration, official statistics show that more than 90% of recently naturalised(IN LAST 30 YEARS) are Shia - mainly women from Iran married to Iranian Bahrainis.[/b]I'll get back to you with a police charge sheet for your crimes against humanity,

I was never aware of this and this is thought provoking. I asked lagoshia if he had ever visited Bahrain and he tactically ignored my question. I have also briefly visited the country and I know all he bases his arguements on are shia vs sunni war, he wants a war between sects he is never for unity , in his mind life is black or white. He says in islam you are iether wrong or right but he has forgotten that in the fiqh of islam we have wajib, haram, mandub, makru.

Thanks illusion for this information
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by Lagosboy: 8:28am On Mar 24, 2011
LagosShia:

its amazing how some people who lack logic and facts have turned in to rhetoric to counter back.i only asked her a question and it would be more appropriate for her to reply.you dont need to do that for her.i just hope "vedaxcool" would use the same yardstick and accuse you of defending a "kaffir against a muslim".or maybe the kaffir is "more islamic" than the shia so am not a "muslim brother"?!!!

in islam and i know (hope you have not forgotten),there is wrong and right.you're either right or wrong.there is no middle path to thread on.you got to make your choice.so please we are not talking here about opinions and freedom of this or that.if you dont have facts about islam,no one is interested in your personal fatwas which would definitely lack intellectuallity.we are talking islam and muslims here.not opinions.i am not interested in that.

and as for your presumption that i have not travelled around the world,that is the same attitude of assumptiob you apply to religious discussions.i do not owe anything to you to prove about myself .

i am only curious to wonder why madam "hymen" is so anxious and bold to defend the tyrant and his regime when that same tyrant is oppressing the majority of bahrainis.you should ask those defending the tyrant whether or not they are pleasing Allah and what they stand to gain or lose.

There is a middle path in life and we are discussing a political issue here albeit politics is part if islam. We are dscussing a social issue, the demand of the protesters initially was for mor economic liberty, social justice and for the prime minister to go. Then all of a sudden it was for the king to go which is still alright in my opinion but what you cannot get is that protester killing other protesters whom are largely citizens of the kingdom in the name of race is racism and tanatamount to genocide.

Islam does not sanction us to go kill innocents and if you hate the king , you face the king an dnot soft targets who have no political value.

Hymen is bold to defend the king because she is a stakeholder in the kingdom, a person who has lived her life and born in a kingdom is part and parcel of the society. She has 100% more right to talk about it than you who is far away from the reality on ground. Islam tells us to always understand the fiqh ul waqi of the environment befor emaking jujdgements.

I repeat your question to her is tasteless , unislamic and absurd. A non muslim right should never be trampled upon under the guise of a kafir. We muslims are meant to be tolerant people and respect other peoples opinion in as much as it doesnt trample on our rights. We are having an intellectual discussion but you do not have the tenacity to carry on without personalising issue which is a weakness and pray to Allah to make you overcome such weakness.

One of the greatest sins is to accusse a chaste woman of lewdness and your question is a malicious question which is subtly accusing her of lewdness. A muslim woman or a non muslim woman should never be accused of such especially when you have never seen this person, you dont know her but all you have against her is because she opposses your view.

Arrogance is when you are confronted with the truth and you fail to accept it. Correct yourself , apologise to her and move on.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 9:26am On Mar 24, 2011
Sweetnecta:

^^^^^^ Thanks lagosshia;

i read all that you wrote. may Allah open our eyes and give each one of us great idayah. Amin.

Allah has stated that the sin He will not forgive if one dies on it is Shirk, alone.

other sins are forgivable if Allah wills.

would those who attempt to kill prophets and those who actually killed prophets be forgiven?what is their punishment?and if they will be forgiven on what basis?what is your view on forgiving or punishing them?do you pray for their forgiveness?do you endorse their actions?please answer each question.


there is only one last prophet, just as there is Only One God the Judge Who chose the sahabah for the messenger [as].

your statement is equal to calling the sahabas "prophets" or chosen men.there is nowhere Allah chose the contemporaries of the Prophet Muhammad.if Allah chose the contemporaries of the Prophet Muhammad,then did He also do similarly for other prophets?then what happens to the sahaba of Issa who sold him and thus betrayed not only Prophet Jesus but the trust of Allah given to humanity in the form of a prophet.


there is a known fact that the messenger [as] gave the good news of paradise to many of his companions [as] while he was alive.

it is also known that he gave ten names of hypocrites to a specific trusted sahabah.

all of these 10 hypocrites died after the messenger [as] who instructed that each of the hypocrites will be known because this very trusted companion will not come to the funeral of any of them.
even yazeed could have fabricated a few hadiths to say that he was promised paradise.


we also know that while Abu Bakr [ra] did not pray in the masjid of the hypocrite and did not take the zakat of that wealthy hypocrite, when he died, the trusted sahabah [ra] did not stay away from his funeral.

Umar, Uthman, Ali were all murdered. how can we say that the good news of paradise that the messenger [as] gave to these people [ra] except for Ali [ra] is wasted? Worse, that the statement of Allah in Taubah verse 100, is now incorrect? I read 101 and from my ability to reason, and your explanation, i did not find any of these people to be destined for hell fire because their 'disagreements' with Fatima and or Ali {ra}.

the problem is you do not know the rank (maqam) of the Ahlul-Bayt.secondly you're trying to diminish what happened to them and the attrocities committed against them by viewing what happened as simply "disagreement".that is not the case.the members of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) who Allah has cleansed and chosen and especially the ones chosen divinely as "imams" (leaders of the ummah and successors of the Prophet) were murdered.the daughter of the Prophet herself was threatened that her house would be burnt down.when people informed umar that the daughter of Muhammad is inside,he said he doesnt care.Hussain,the grandson of the Prophet was beheaded.if you view all the attrocities and calamities that befell the Holy Household as mere "disagreements",then you really got to question your heart.something is missing somewhere.

to us Hassan and Hussain are of no less importance than Isaac and Ishmael.to us saying "Allahuma salli ala Muhammad wa Alli Muhammad kama sallaita ala Ibrahim wa Alli Ibrahim" is very important and has deep meanings.if you claim that the sahabas who were fallible men and far from being angelic or prophetic were chosen by Allah,then how much more the family of the Messenger of Allah?but your claim anyways is wrong.


Allah is the Only Knower and he is the Only One that determines who will end up in Hell. I find it impossible to accept that the prophet [as] will be a husband of a woman who will end up in Hell and his closest companions are destined for hell, too, while Allah does not give us a clear indication of that in the Quran, as in the case of the earlier prophets who say the evil people from their family destroyed.

do you also find it impossible that the wives of Noah and Lot who are cursed in the Quran will end up in hell?do you find it impossible that the Prophet Muhammad's uncle and his wife will end up in hell according to the Quran?these are things we must look into objectively and not what we feel about them with our soft hearts.


We in Islam say the awariyun of prophet isa bin Maryam [as] were believers. How is it that we say the closest companions of the last prophet [as] are 'hypocrites", considering that the leader deserves those he leads? and the followers deserve the leader that leads them? what are we saying of the prophet then, in this case?

that is not islamic at all to say that the followers must always be like the leaders.so what happens to the one that betrayed Jesus from among his own companions?


May Allah forgive each of our shortcomings. Amin. For me i say Allah chose the best leader [as] for the best companions [ra]. Thanks for the dialogue.

ameen!
you're welcome!!
wrong concept again!!!
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 9:44am On Mar 24, 2011
illusion2:

This just conforms what I have been saying. You have absolutely no idea of what you are saying.

let me tell you this:

i refrained from posting figures here because first of all each side in bahrain would have its own figures.the opposition has its figures to show that the government is naturalizing foreigners based on sectarianism and based on a politically motivated agenda.while the government also invents its figures to deceive you that it is not doing so,while in reality and on the ground they are.


You just come on NL & post hearsay on NL. Confirming you have no figures to back up your claim ,just shows how obtuse your reasoning is.

you got over 300,000 people out of about 600,000 original bahrainis protesting in a square.among their demands was stopping the politically motivated naturalizations and the discrimination against the majority shia population.and here you are accusing me of hearsay.its either you have decided to be deaf or blind.


The Shia : Sunni ratio has remained constant for over 30 years (if not increased in favour of Shia),the gerrymandering of voting districts by the govt is wrong , but is based on geography & not population ! We have the not so similar unfair & mind boggling system in Nigeria ,where the House of Reps members from OLD KANO STATE are more than all the House of Reps members from the entire South-South. Should we start killing hausa people.

now you're trying hard to be dumb with no offense intended.

you cannot tell me that 70% of bahrainis who are shia live on the same area in size as 30% or less who are sunnis.what are you saying?

and even if i am to accept your deception again,i must ask:in democracy,is it the rule of the majority or the rule of the size of the land?

what stops the majority of people in changing their electoral law if it exists as you're claiming?


A review of the Bahraini map will confirm this. Shias are concentrated in mainly in the Northern Governorates,while the Southern (the largest geographically is Sunni) the others are shared,so your asking people to be killed on a false premise is based on rumours and I will ask the moderators for your IP so you can be traced and charged for inciting racial hatred & genocide in Kingdom of Bahrain,where I was a proud resident until 2 years ago.

you dont need to ask the moderators.you can ask me and i will give you not my IP address but my location and name and everything you need to know about me.you can even send me yours and i will come to you.

you need to be charged because you have lied thrice.first you're denying the rights of a majority telling about north and south as if you're talking about nigeria where no clear majority is present.democracy is about numbers and not land space.and even your assertion is wrong.the government is sunni,so its natural that most of the empty land in bahrain were turned into real estates and developed by sunnis who got all the cash.that does not mean their numbers can actually occupy those areas and fill them up.and since when did bahrain become shia north and sunni south?another orchestrated plan by the tyrant and you here to deceive us with that.your second lie is accusing me of inciting people to kill.your third lie is denying the reality that something is wrong in bahrain and the majority and discriminated against and their rights stolen and pretending as if bahrainis are not already killing themselves.was i the one that told them to fight?or was i the one that adviced the king to kill protesters?


On migration, official statistics show that more than 90% of recently naturalised(IN LAST 30 YEARS) are Shia - mainly women from Iran married to Iranian Bahrainis.

I'll get back to you with a police charge sheet for your crimes against humanity,

the above is the most ridiculous.bahraini men married iranian women and got bahraini citizenship.and you want to impress us with that?in the arab world when men marry foreigners the women get the citizenship of their husbands.but when arab women marry foreign men,they cannot give the citizenship to their husbands or even children from a foreign man.

you're talking as if it was the bahraini govt. that went to give iranian women to bahraini men because the govt. so loves giving iranians bahraini citizenship.

and finally can you provide us with the source of your figures??

you just cant come here and feed us trash and expect us to digest it without questioning the source.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 9:51am On Mar 24, 2011
Lagosboy:

I was never aware of this and this is thought provoking. I asked lagoshia if he had ever visited Bahrain and he tactically ignored my question. I have also briefly visited the country and I know all he bases his arguements on are shia vs sunni war, he wants a war between sects he is never for unity , in his mind life is black or white. He says in islam you are iether wrong or right but he has forgotten that in the fiqh of islam we have wajib, haram, mandub, makru.

Thanks illusion for this information




i didnt ignore your question.i must have skipped it unknowingly.

my question to you:

are you saying there is no discrimination in bahrain by the tyrannical king against the majority shia and those protesting have no claims?what is the solution

why are the majority shia protesting?we had over 300,000 out of 600,000 bahrainis protesting.in egypt we had 3 million out of 80 million who succeeded in changing the regime.

when it comes to sunni countries like egypt and tunisia,it was the people against the tyrants.the tyrants in egypt and tunisia were never thought of as "sunnis".when it comes to shia majority bahrain,everyone starts to view its as shia v/s the sunni king or shia v/s sunnis.why dont you see it as the majority of bahraini people against a tyrannical king and not a sunni king?

in islam,there is right and wrong i repeat again.anything not haram is not wrong and not sinful.you can call it in fiqh whatever name you like but it is not wrong or sinful.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 9:53am On Mar 24, 2011
to all the defenders of tyranny and oppression:

1.) can you tell us what is wrong in bahrain?

2.) who is to blame?

3.) what is the solution?
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by Lagosboy: 10:09am On Mar 24, 2011
LagosShia:

i didnt ignore your question.i must have skipped it unknowingly.
You still have not answered it

my question to you:

are you saying there is no discrimination in bahrain by the tyrannical king against the majority shia and those protesting have no claims?what is the solution

If you read my post from the begining of this thread you will realise i stated my 100% support for the protesters for reform. Descrimination exists no doubt and there are other issues as well that needs reform.

Solutiton is to keep up the proetsts and never protest along sectarian line but protest as one Bahrain. The moment they identify themselves as shia fighting for the shia cause  the passive sunnis will have no option than not to join the protest but allign with their own as well. The protest was successfull in the begining but will never be successful IMO now that it is sectarian.



why are the majority shia protesting?we had over 300,000 out of 600,000 bahrainis protesting.in egypt we had 3 million out of 80 million who succeeded in changing the regime.

Numbers can never be verified by anyone but the truth is it was not just the shias protesting at the begining, even thousands of sunnis joined the protest as they wanted genuine constitional monarchy where the will of the people prevails.

I told you in my first post on this thread that this parochial thinking of your from the pin hole of shi-sunni divide will never serve any purpose except dissent. I once agin call you to join those that seek to bridge the divide , unite on what we agree upon and let our differences fizzle out. We all have a common goal which is salvation in the hereafter and our purpose in life is to worship our creator.

Some of shia leaders are doing just that an di respect them for it and even appreciate their efforts but people like you should learn from Nasrallah and Ahmedinjad on how to be steadfast, foster unity and not further sow the seeds of dissent.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by Lagosboy: 10:14am On Mar 24, 2011
LagosShia:

[b]to all the defenders of tyranny and oppression:[/b]1.) can you tell us what is wrong in bahrain?

2.) who is to blame?

3.) what is the solution?

Buddie , labelling people with bad names for opposing your views is disgusting and i will keep telling you. No one here has defended the King under any instance but all we have done is diagree with your notion of killing civilians for protesting in favour of the king.

Syrian leadership is worse in terms of dictatorship and freedom restriction than the Bahraini king but Ï dont see you criticise him. I criticise the saudi royals and all dictators regardless of the sect or creed.

Anyway i give up on this coversation as i know you never listen, accept and always right in your view. I have been saying the same thing 20 times and over. Have a good day.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by vedaxcool(m): 11:14am On Mar 24, 2011
LagosShia:

to all the defenders of tyranny and oppression:

1.) can you tell us what is wrong in bahrain?

Lagosshia: Sunni

LagosShia:

2.) who is to blame?

Lagoshia: Sunni

LagosShia:

3.) what is the solution?

Lagoshia: Destroy all Sunnis

Believe me, that is how Lagoshia Brain produce "High Grade Intellectualism".

But to answer your question, the Problem in Bahrain, is Injustice, perpetuated by a Family that wantsto retain power by all means: that is the Monarchy, who is to blame, I think all Bahrains should take the blame for accepting injustice for too long. The solution, the Bahrains need to come together - not kill each other as Oga Karbala is suggesting- and fight a common enemy called Injustice, if the Egyptians could remove strong Mubarak peacefully, then I think the Bahrains could remove their enemies quite easily using the power of Unity.

uplawal:

@vedaxcool,if you think i do read all your posts too,you must be a joker,and i dnt expect you to feel anyhow too,so dnt expect me to feel bad if no one is replying me,its always ok by me if my intention is made when i post,i dnt have to make a big deal out of it.

I was just trying to point out to you that your method of engaging with your muslim brothers and sisters and even your fellow human being is quite distastful. You seem spoiling for a war. that is not the spirit we need in having a discourse.

LagosShia:

you tried wahhabi style to spin and twist the words of others but you failed as usual.

i never called for attacks on innocent civilians who simply went to protest and go back home.even so,i am yet to receive a reply from any of the wahhabi wannabes.those indians and pakistanis seen protesting,are those legal bahraini citizens or are they migrant workers poking their noses in the affairs of other people as "political mercenaries"?

what are they?

i keep stressing how this monrachy propaganda is working in the cockroach brains of some people.the protesters from both sides,regardless of what i think of the pro-government protesters who are not bahrainis,were peaceful.why do people keep forgetting the fact that while pro-government protesters were safe and free to protest,the anti-government protesters were brutally cracked down? i am yet to be convinced by anyone that pro-government protesters who were peaceful were attacked by the shia anti-government protesters.that is not true.

i also emphasized that arguing the morality behind attacking protesters from opposing camps is not a reality on the ground in bahrain.this is only a scope within our own NL discussions.i have also insisted that peaceful protesters are not to be attacked but that depends on conditions surrounding the word "peaceful".were they really peaceful?

all said and done,it is time for the monarchy to give peace a chance and go away.if the king has not used his militiamen to attack anti-govt. protesters no violence would have occurred.even if for argument sake i am to accept that pro-government protesters were attacked,then again the government is to blame because the violence came thanks to them.

you can call me as you wish.the fact remains that in bahrain,there is a majority fighting for their survival.it is not the majority that is threatening the lives or existence of the minority nor are they the ones endangering the lives of foreigners.you're just inventing your story here.the problem is not retaliation by the shia or offence.the issue is the shia want to live free and safe and that is not too much to ask for.if you view that as extremist,then what would you describe the king's attitude or the sunnis' whose aim is to eliminate an entire population simply because the others have different sectarian beliefs?dont be one-eyed.that is of the dajjal!!!you can vomit disgustingly how you view your so called "radical shiism" but you cannot give me an instance of radicalism by shias or even an endorsement of it by our scholars.radicalism only exists in wahhabism aka salafism.it does not exist in shia islam.i previously challenged anyone to give me just one instance where a shia carried out a suicide bombing to kill civilians in market place or hotels as wahhabis do.you can also try.you will never find a shia killing innocent civilians talkless of carrying out suicide bombings against civilians.the islam taught by the Prophet Muhammad ensures that fighting is conducted between opposing combatants.it is the wahhabi cowards that target civilians just like their zionist friends also do.

Look at how he confuses his own extremist view, of calling for the annihilation of Foreigners in Bahrain with the struggle for Bahrain, no where did I say that the Bahrain Shias are extremist, but I said they are too intelligent to engage in your form of extremism. Again it was actually you shias that raise the issue of suicide bombings to Islamic fame . Now to claim shias do not kill civillians during conflict is very laughable, Oga Karbala, is this how in the know you actually are?

Lebanon, Palestine, Iraq

While suicide martyrdom did not win the Iran–Iraq War for Iran, it did spread to Lebanon, where it won victories for Hezbollah, Shia allies of the Islamic Revolution there. Hebollah's 1983 bombings against U.S. and French peacekeeping troops killed over 600 and drove them from Lebanon. Another longer bombing campaign did likewise to the Israeli army. Khomeini is credited by some with inspiring these Hezbollah "suicide bombers".[75]

The power of shaheed operations as a military tactic has been described by Shia Lebanese as an equalizer where faith and piety are used to counter superior military power of the Western unbeliever:

You look at it with a Western mentality. You regard it as barbaric and unjustified. We, on the other hand, see it as another means of war, but one which is also harmonious with our religion and beliefs. Take for example, an Israeli warplane or, better still, the American and British air power in the Gulf War. , The goal of their mission and the outcome of their deeds was to kill and damage enemy positions just like us , The only difference is that they had at their disposal state-of-the-art and top-of-the-range means and weaponry to achieve their aims. We have the minimum basics , We , do not seek material rewards, but heavenly one in the hereafter.[76]

The victory of Hezbollah is known to have inspired Hamas in Palestine,[77] al-Qaeda in its worldwide bombing campaign.[78] In the years after Khomeini's death, "Martyrdom operations" or "suicide bombing" have spread beyond Shia Islam and beyond attacks on military and are now a major force in the Muslim world.[79] According to one estimate, as of early 2008, 1,121 Muslim suicide bombers have blown themselves up in Iraq alone.[80]

Ironically and tragically, in the last few years, thousands of Muslims, particularly Shia, have been victims, not just initiators, of martyrdom operations, with many civilians and even mosques and shrines being targeted, particularly in Iraq.[81] Wahhabi extremist Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi has quoted Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab urging his followers to kill Shi'a of Iraq.[82] In 2007 some of the Shia ulema have responded by declared suicide bombing haram:

"حتي كساني كه با انتحار مي‌‏آيند و مي‌‏زنند عده‌‏اي را مي‌‏كشند، آن هم به عنوان عمليات انتحاري، اينها در قعر جهنم هستند"
"Even those who kill people with suicide bombing, these shall meet the flames of hell."[83]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_thought_and_legacy_of_Khomeini

You see this evil method of figting was actually brought by u shias, I just dey laugh at the way you reason, pls Read! don't Just follow.

LagosShia:

as for what you saw as "complimenting' a kaffir,you can again be free to see it as you like.when a muslim does wrong and as the wahhabis do,other muslims who identify the wrong should not try to justify that wrong.if you do,others who are not muslims will recognize what is wrong and before you know it the entire religion would be blackmailed and its image tarnished.if one muslim does wrong,identify and correct the wrong and even condemn what is wrong.what is wrong is wrong regardless whether it is a muslim or christian that commits it.if you feel bad that i expose the wrongs of the wahhabis which they have committed and are being used to blacklist islam as a religion,then i dont care what you think.i am only bothered to make sure my religion is intact and pure and no one tries to use anything against islam with success even if that means condemning the actions of a black sheep among muslims.islam teaches us justice and virtue.if we cannot practice that among ourselves and be exemplary and tell the kafir that we are a just nation,then how do you wish to impliment justice upon the kafir?if we are not just among ourselves and we are practicing favoritism and discrimination then dont bother to impliment justice on others.sharia law is for muslims first before the kafir.there are laws within the sharia which even do not oblige the kafir.

You are very funny, maybe you did not really understand what I was saying, but you were in a haste to reply, as anybody that follows the link I gave will notice that the replies you made, had no place in the discussion under place, this Kafir that you supprted even denies God, yet you Juilantly followed his article without even refuting the falseness in which he wrote, Lagoshia, the so called Wahabi scholars you keep yapping about, were correct in most of the assertions they made, that is they rejected mixing Islamic beliefs with that of other Faiths, what wrong is there in that? they said they do not support placing the Qur'an, the Bible, and the Torah in one Book, what is wrong in that? You are being wiser by half - I am sorry to use this Language- as you were not refuting their views in that article, but you were Just interested in attacking them, none of what you wrote in your initial reply had any bearing to that article, but again Oga Karbala only wants to attack the Wahabis at any Junction. The Funny thing is the Op of that thread simply gave a misleading Thread name only to defame Islam yet Oga Karbala felt that is small compared to what the Wahabis have done to him,pls take am easy. shocked shocked shocked

LagosShia:

justice is when the Prophet Muhammad told people that if his own very daughter who is beloved to him is to commit theft,he will cut off her hands.but if you want to cover up for a muslim when theft is committed in order not to embarass him and make the kafir feel whatever,then you're unjust.may Allah judge you for that.

Your smartness should have allowed you reliase what I was saying, but the Karbala spirit is intoxicating you too much. An article that was written to deface Islam and the Wahabis what do u think is the greater Theft? Oh, I forgot the Wahabis callled Yazeed a caliph that really hurts you that ws why a Godless Kafir attack on Islam meant nothing to you. shocked

Shia militia' behind Iraq blast
The Ghazil pet market bombing in Baghdad on 23 November 2007
At least 13 people were killed and dozens hurt in the blast
A US military spokesman in Iraq has blamed Iranian-backed Shia militants for a bomb attack on a pet market in Baghdad that killed at least 13 people.

The bomb, hidden in a box of birds at the popular Ghazil market, also injured dozens on Friday.

Rear Adm Gregory Smith said four people had been arrested overnight and that confessions pointed to an Iranian-backed special groups cell.

He said the cell wanted the blame to fall on Sunni al-Qaeda militants.

Rogue elements

Adm Smith said the overnight raids and detentions were carried out by Iraqi and coalition forces.


The group's purpose was to make it appear al-Qaeda was responsible for this attack
Rear Admiral Gregory Smith

In pictures: Market blast

"Based on subsequent confessions, forensics and other intelligence, the bombing was the work of an Iranian-backed special groups cell operating here in Baghdad."

The BBC's Jim Muir in the capital says this is the name generally given by the Americans to rogue elements of the Mehdi Army militia who have ignored the call by their supposed leader, Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, to halt all military activities.

Bomb attacks such as Friday's are generally linked to Sunni al-Qaeda militants.

Adm Smith said: "The group's purpose was to make it appear al-Qaeda was responsible for this attack."

He said this was to frighten the Shia community into supporting the militias as protectors

your challenge has been met we can even go to Parkistan or Lebanon, there are many examples abound.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by Nobody: 2:59pm On Mar 24, 2011
@Vedaxcool,is disagreeing with fellow non&muslims on wrong issues haram?

@All nairaland muslims and Lagosshia,why did they use" is" instead of "was" in that verse,could that be to cover actrocities of some people
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by Nobody: 5:26pm On Mar 24, 2011
vedaxcool:

Lagosshia: Sunni

Lagoshia: Sunni

Lagoshia: Destroy all Sunnis

Believe me, that is how Lagoshia Brain produce "High Grade Intellectualism".

But to answer your question, the Problem in Bahrain, is Injustice, perpetuated by a Family that wantsto retain power by all means: that is the Monarchy, who is to blame, I think all Bahrains should take the blame for accepting injustice for too long. The solution, the Bahrains need to come together - not kill each other as Oga Karbala is suggesting- and fight a common enemy called Injustice, if the Egyptians could remove strong Mubarak peacefully, then I think the Bahrains could remove their enemies quite easily using the power of Unity.

I was just trying to point out to you that your method of engaging with your muslim brothers and sisters and even your fellow human being is quite distastful. You seem spoiling for a war. that is not the spirit we need in having a discourse.

Look at how he confuses his own extremist view, of calling for the annihilation of Foreigners in Bahrain with the struggle for Bahrain, no where did I say that the Bahrain Shias are extremist, but I said they are too intelligent to engage in your form of extremism. Again it was actually you shias that raise the issue of suicide bombings to Islamic fame . Now to claim shias do not kill civillians during conflict is very laughable, Oga Karbala, is this how in the know you actually are?

Lebanon, Palestine, Iraq

While suicide martyrdom did not win the Iran–Iraq War for Iran, it did spread to Lebanon, where it won victories for Hezbollah, Shia allies of the Islamic Revolution there. Hebollah's 1983 bombings against U.S. and French peacekeeping troops killed over 600 and drove them from Lebanon. Another longer bombing campaign did likewise to the Israeli army. Khomeini is credited by some with inspiring these Hezbollah "suicide bombers".[75]

The power of shaheed operations as a military tactic has been described by Shia Lebanese as an equalizer where faith and piety are used to counter superior military power of the Western unbeliever:

You look at it with a Western mentality. You regard it as barbaric and unjustified. We, on the other hand, see it as another means of war, but one which is also harmonious with our religion and beliefs. Take for example, an Israeli warplane or, better still, the American and British air power in the Gulf War. , The goal of their mission and the outcome of their deeds was to kill and damage enemy positions just like us , The only difference is that they had at their disposal state-of-the-art and top-of-the-range means and weaponry to achieve their aims. We have the minimum basics , We , do not seek material rewards, but heavenly one in the hereafter.[76]

The victory of Hezbollah is known to have inspired Hamas in Palestine,[77] al-Qaeda in its worldwide bombing campaign.[78] In the years after Khomeini's death, "Martyrdom operations" or "suicide bombing" have spread beyond Shia Islam and beyond attacks on military and are now a major force in the Muslim world.[79] According to one estimate, as of early 2008, 1,121 Muslim suicide bombers have blown themselves up in Iraq alone.[80]

Ironically and tragically, in the last few years, thousands of Muslims, particularly Shia, have been victims, not just initiators, of martyrdom operations, with many civilians and even mosques and shrines being targeted, particularly in Iraq.[81] Wahhabi extremist Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi has quoted Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab urging his followers to kill Shi'a of Iraq.[82] In 2007 some of the Shia ulema have responded by declared suicide bombing haram:

"حتي كساني كه با انتحار مي‌‏آيند و مي‌‏زنند عده‌‏اي را مي‌‏كشند، آن هم به عنوان عمليات انتحاري، اينها در قعر جهنم هستند"
"Even those who kill people with suicide bombing, these shall meet the flames of hell."[83]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_thought_and_legacy_of_Khomeini

You see this evil method of figting was actually brought by u shias, I just dey laugh at the way you reason, pls Read! don't Just follow.

You are very funny, maybe you did not really understand what I was saying, but you were in a haste to reply, as anybody that follows the link I gave will notice that the replies you made, had no place in the discussion under place, this Kafir that you supprted even denies God, yet you Juilantly followed his article without even refuting the fals[flash=eness in which he wrote, Lagoshia, the so called Wahabi scholars you keep yapping about, were correct in most of the assertions they made, that is they rejected mixing Islamic beliefs with that of other Faiths, what wrong is there in that? they said they do not support placing the Qur'an, the Bible, and the Torah in one Book, what is wrong in that? You are being wiser by half - I am sorry to use this Language- as you were not refuting their views in that article, but you were Just interested in attacking them, none of what you wrote in your initial reply had any bearing to that article, but again Oga Karbala only wants to attack the Wahabis at any Junction. The Funny thing is the Op of that thread simply gave a misleading Thread name only to defame Islam yet Oga Karbala felt that is small compared to what the Wahabis have done to him,pls take am easy. shocked shocked shocked

Your smartness should have allowed you reliase what I was saying ,but the Karbala spirit is intoxicating you too much[b][/b]. An article that was written to deface Islam and the Wahabis what do u think is the greater Theft? Oh, I forgot the Wahabis callled Yazeed a caliph that really hurts you that ws why a Godless Kafir attack on Islam meant nothing to you. shocked

Shia militia' behind Iraq blast
The Ghazil pet market bombing in Baghdad on 23 November 2007
At least 13 people were killed and dozens hurt in the blast
A US military spokesman in Iraq has blamed Iranian-backed Shia militants for a bomb attack on a pet market in Baghdad that killed at least 13 people.

The bomb, hidden in a box of birds at the popular Ghazil market, also injured dozens on Friday.

Rear Adm Gregory Smith said four people had been arrested overnight and that confessions pointed to an Iranian-backed special groups cell.

He said the cell wanted the blame to fall on Sunni al-Qaeda militants.

Rogue elements

Adm Smith said the overnight raids and detentions were carried out by Iraqi and coalition forces.


The group's purpose was to make it appear al-Qaeda was responsible for this attack
Rear Admiral Gregory Smith

In pictures: Market blast

"Based on subsequent confessions, forensics and other intelligence, the bombing was the work of an Iranian-backed special groups cell operating here in Baghdad."

The BBC's Jim Muir in the capital says this is the name generally given by the Americans to rogue elements of the Mehdi Army militia who have ignored the call by their supposed leader, Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, to halt all military activities.

Bomb attacks such as Friday's are generally linked to Sunni al-Qaeda militants.

Adm Smith said: "The group's purpose was to make it appear al-Qaeda was responsible for this attack."

He said this was to frighten the Shia community into supporting the militias as protectors

your challenge has been met we can even go to Parkistan or Lebanon, there are many examples aboun
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by Nobody: 5:57pm On Mar 24, 2011
@vedaxcool,and your very word "KABALA SPIRIT IS INTOXICATING YOU" is not only distasteful but very sickening.Pluck out yours before others.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by illusion2: 7:00pm On Mar 24, 2011
LagosShia:

let me tell you this:
i refrained from posting figures here because first of all each side in bahrain would have its own figures.the opposition has its figures to show that the government is naturalizing foreigners based on sectarianism and based on a politically motivated agenda.while the government also invents its figures to deceive you that it is not doing so,while in reality and on the ground they are.
you got over 300,000 people out of about 600,000 original bahrainis protesting in a square.among their demands was stopping the politically motivated naturalizations and the discrimination against the majority shia population.and here you are accusing me of hearsay.its either you have decided to be deaf or blind.

Inasmuch as I try to avoid arguments that have no end , you have shown yourself to be less of the cerebral human being I initially thought you were, but actually an intellectual paperweight or maybe you’re studying to be an Ayatollah- I advise you should steer clear of politics.

I make bold to say ,you have never being to Bahrain before, all your information is gleaned from Shia websites ,which by themselves have an agenda.You come to a ‘neutral’ site like NL & spew absolute nonsense !

If you are arguing the merits of Shia over Sunni Islam or the role of Imam Hussain in Islamic jurisprudence, I certainly can’t argue with you, but we are talking POLITICS here ! FUNDAMENTAL ,BASIC & DIRTY POLITICS . I’m sorry your religious point of view is not relevant !
What percentage of Sunnis are struggling ? Are they (Sunnis) also concerned with the way things are?
What percentage of Shia support the recent protests? Do you know??
How many Shias hold senior positions in private & public organisations??
How many Shias are in the Bahraini Upper House (Shura council)
Where did you come up with your 300,000 out of 600,000 figure ??

Because I gave you some facts & figures ,you decided to come up with your voodoo maths .

LagosShia:

now you're trying hard to be dumb with no offense intended.
you cannot tell me that 70% of bahrainis who are shia live on the same area in size as 30% or less who are sunnis.what are you saying?
You are a bigoted rascal no offense intended . cheesy

If you weren’t a scoundrel(no offense intended) , you would have referred to the Bahraini map as advised and seen that large swathes of the south are UNINHABITED !
There are Shias not only in the Northern Gvernorates but in all, its just that the North is almost exclusively Shia while the ssouthern is almost exclusively Sunni. There are 3 other Governorates – Capital ,Muharraq & Central – facts - not religious ideology ! Are there more Shia in bahrain-absolutely , are they proportionally represented no ! Is there a need for reform certainly .

REFORMS NOT MATYRS !!

LagosShia:

and even if i am to accept your deception again,i must ask:in democracy,is it the rule of the majority or the rule of the size of the land?
what stops the majority of people in changing their electoral law if it exists as you're claiming?


If you weren’t so blinded by your religion ,you would have read that I said –IT IS WRONG FOR THE GOVT TO CREATE VOTING DISTRICTS LIKE THAT !!! I went further to give another unfair example in Nigeria which MUST be corrected ,but the question is should we kill Hausa people like you have asked the Bahraini Shias to kill PAKISTANIS & INDIANS because we do not agree with the political situation ??

LagosShia:

you dont need to ask the moderators.you can ask me and i will give you not my IP address but my location and name and everything you need to know about me.you can even send me yours and i will come to you.
you need to be charged because you have lied thrice.first you're denying the rights of a majority telling about north and south as if you're talking about nigeria where no clear majority is present.democracy is about numbers and not land space.and even your assertion is wrong.the government is sunni,so its natural that most of the empty land in bahrain were turned into real estates and developed by sunnis who got all the cash.that does not mean their numbers can actually occupy those areas and fill them up.and since when did bahrain become shia north and sunni south?another orchestrated plan by the tyrant and you here to deceive us with that.your second lie is accusing me of inciting people to kill.your third lie is denying the reality that something is wrong in bahrain and the majority and discriminated against and their rights stolen and pretending as if bahrainis are not already killing themselves.was i the one that told them to fight?or was i the one that adviced the king to kill protesters?
the above is the most ridiculous.bahraini men married iranian women and got bahraini citizenship.and you want to impress us with that?in the arab world when men marry foreigners the women get the citizenship of their husbands.but when arab women marry foreign men,they cannot give the citizenship to their husbands or even children from a foreign man.

you're talking as if it was the bahraini govt. that went to give iranian women to bahraini men because the govt. so loves giving iranians bahraini citizenship.

Complete & utter nonsense – everything you have asked has been answered in previous posts. I cannot continue in never ending diatribe, I’m sorry I have work to do.

No offense but you seem to be a rascal & I can’t continue exchanging words with rascals especially genocidal & religiously blinded ones.
Case dismissed !!
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 8:32pm On Mar 24, 2011
Lagosboy:

You still have not answered it
If you read my post from the begining of this thread you will realise i stated my 100% support for the protesters for reform. Descrimination exists no doubt and there are other issues as well that needs reform.

how will reform ever take place when you have a brutal govt. in place that is ready to invite foreign armies to quell those prostests?


Solutiton is to keep up the proetsts and never protest along sectarian line but protest as one Bahrain. The moment they identify themselves as shia fighting for the shia cause the passive sunnis will have no option than not to join the protest but allign with their own as well. The protest was successfull in the begining but will never be successful IMO now that it is sectarian.

the protests never started along sectarian lines.the people in whose interest it is to turn the issue sectarian is the govt.both sunnis and shia were protesting.

the government turned it sectarian first of all.secondly,the govt. anti-shia stance and policies is obvious for all to see.in a majority shia country with over 70% who are shia,it is only normal that the shia take more interest in protesting.thirdly,the shia are the ones that have suffered the most from the regime.forthly,the intervention of the saudis was mainly channeled at fuelling sectarianism.why didnt saudi arabia send its troops to egypt?or even libya?rather the arab league opposed western intervention aimed at stopping qaddafi's madness against his own people.


Numbers can never be verified by anyone but the truth is it was not just the shias protesting at the begining, even thousands of sunnis joined the protest as they wanted genuine constitional monarchy where the will of the people prevails.

with saudi tanks rolling the streets of bahrain,you can never have that.any call for reform is immediately viewed and deliberately made to be seen as a shia plan to change the regime.everyone suddenly forgets that the problem is tyranny and oppression.


I told you in my first post on this thread that this parochial thinking of your from the pin hole of shi-sunni divide will never serve any purpose except dissent. I once agin call you to join those that seek to bridge the divide , unite on what we agree upon and let our differences fizzle out. We all have a common goal which is salvation in the hereafter and our purpose in life is to worship our creator.

Some of shia leaders are doing just that an di respect them for it and even appreciate their efforts but people like you should learn from Nasrallah and Ahmedinjad on how to be steadfast, foster unity and not further sow the seeds of dissent.

unity is good.but that should not be at the expense of an entire community.the same yusuf al-qaradawi the famous sunni sheikh who supported the removal of mubarak and called for qaddafi's assasination said the bahraini protests was sectarian.what makes it sectarian?the king is sunni!in egypt mubarak was not viewed as sunni but a tyrant.

shia leaders do call for unity.but tell me today what nasrallah and ahmadinejad's unity and appeasing sunnis done to help the bahrainis?saudi arabia is interefering in bahrain militarily while iran is watching.i know iran is single handedly capable of destroying all the gulf arab armies combined.but the fact is those gulf arabs are counting on israel and the west for support if iran interferes to counter the saudi forces.where are the sincere sunnis to stand up and support the oppressed people of bahrain?why dont they condemn saudi arabia?
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 8:40pm On Mar 24, 2011
Lagosboy:

Buddie , labelling people with bad names for opposing your views is disgusting and i will keep telling you. No one here has defended the King under any instance but all we have done is diagree with your notion of killing civilians for protesting in favour of the king.

Syrian leadership is worse in terms of dictatorship and freedom restriction than the Bahraini king but Ï dont see you criticise him. I criticise the saudi royals and all dictators regardless of the sect or creed.

Anyway i give up on this coversation as i know you never listen, accept and always right in your view. I have been saying the same thing 20 times and over. Have a good day.

this is what Christian Amanpour had to say about the war in Bosnia:

"Some people accused me of being pro-Muslim in Bosnia, but I realised that our job is to give all sides an equal hearing, but in cases of genocide you can't just be neutral. You can't just say, 'Well, this little boy was shot in the head and killed in besieged Sarajevo and that guy over there did it, but maybe he was upset because he had an argument with his wife.' No, there is no equality there, and we had to tell the truth."

to me the bahraini tyrant is worse than bashar al-assad and saddam.both assad and saddam dont kill or target people based on sectarianism.they are secular rulers who simply care about power.the case in bahrain is by far different and worse.and who says i dont criticise all dictators?dictators and tyrants have no faith.it is only the misguided that give them an identity.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 9:00pm On Mar 24, 2011
vedaxcool:

Lagosshia: Sunni

Lagoshia: Sunni

Lagoshia: Destroy all Sunnis


Believe me, that is how Lagoshia Brain produce "High Grade Intellectualism".

i wouldnt expect something more intelligent from you anyways.


But to answer your question, the Problem in Bahrain, is Injustice, perpetuated by a Family that wantsto retain power by all means: that is the Monarchy, who is to blame, I think all Bahrains should take the blame for accepting injustice for too long. The solution, the Bahrains need to come together - not kill each other as Oga Karbala is suggesting- and fight a common enemy called Injustice, if the Egyptians could remove strong Mubarak peacefully, then I think the Bahrains could remove their enemies quite easily using the power of Unity.

a few hundred died in egypt.is that what you call peaceful?and the bahraini king is ready to kill even more to stay on power.where in the world have we ever witnessed a head of state getting support from a neigboring country to kill his own people?


I was just trying to point out to you that your method of engaging with your muslim brothers and sisters and even your fellow human being is quite distastful. You seem spoiling for a war. that is not the spirit we need in having a discourse.

i never called for a war."hymen" came here in support of the king and tried to justify his massacres by saying that the anti-govt. protesters attacked other protesters who are pro-govt and the security forces.i simply responded that the shia protesters have a right to defend themselves.but i kept denying that the anti-govt. protesters killed anyone who was peaceful or civilians from the opposing camp.from there on,you guys keep repeating the same nonsense that i am caling for attacks on peaceful protesters.you all forgot that the anti-govt. protesters are the ones on the defensive and it was the govt. that turned everything violent.why do you ignore that?


Look at how he confuses his own extremist view, of calling for the annihilation of Foreigners in Bahrain with the struggle for Bahrain, no where did I say that the Bahrain Shias are extremist, but I said they are too intelligent to engage in your form of extremism. Again it was actually you shias that raise the issue of suicide bombings to Islamic fame . Now to claim shias do not kill civillians during conflict is very laughable, Oga Karbala, is this how in the know you actually are?

let me repeat again lest you distort my words:

whether it was shia that started or justified suicide bombings based on islamic jurisprudence is another topic entirely.

the issue i pointed out is the fact that nowhere have we witnessed shia suicide bombers in market place either sent or endorsed by our religious institutions-meaning our grand scholars of jurisprudence.


Lebanon, Palestine, Iraq

While suicide martyrdom did not win the Iran–Iraq War for Iran, it did spread to Lebanon, where it won victories for Hezbollah, Shia allies of the Islamic Revolution there. Hebollah's 1983 bombings against U.S. and French peacekeeping troops killed over 600 and drove them from Lebanon. Another longer bombing campaign did likewise to the Israeli army. Khomeini is credited by some with inspiring these Hezbollah "suicide bombers".[75]

The power of shaheed operations as a military tactic has been described by Shia Lebanese as an equalizer where faith and piety are used to counter superior military power of the Western unbeliever:

You look at it with a Western mentality. You regard it as barbaric and unjustified. We, on the other hand, see it as another means of war, but one which is also harmonious with our religion and beliefs. Take for example, an Israeli warplane or, better still, the American and British air power in the Gulf War. , The goal of their mission and the outcome of their deeds was to kill and damage enemy positions just like us , The only difference is that they had at their disposal state-of-the-art and top-of-the-range means and weaponry to achieve their aims. We have the minimum basics , We , do not seek material rewards, but heavenly one in the hereafter.[76]

The victory of Hezbollah is known to have inspired Hamas in Palestine,[77] al-Qaeda in its worldwide bombing campaign.[78] In the years after Khomeini's death, "Martyrdom operations" or "suicide bombing" have spread beyond Shia Islam and beyond attacks on military and are now a major force in the Muslim world.[79] According to one estimate, as of early 2008, 1,121 Muslim suicide bombers have blown themselves up in Iraq alone.[80]

Ironically and tragically, in the last few years, thousands of Muslims, particularly Shia, have been victims, not just initiators, of martyrdom operations, with many civilians and even mosques and shrines being targeted, particularly in Iraq.[81] Wahhabi extremist Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi has quoted Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab urging his followers to kill Shi'a of Iraq.[82] In 2007 some of the Shia ulema have responded by declared suicide bombing haram:

"حتي كساني كه با انتحار مي‌‏آيند و مي‌‏زنند عده‌‏اي را مي‌‏كشند، آن هم به عنوان عمليات انتحاري، اينها در قعر جهنم هستند"
"Even those who kill people with suicide bombing, these shall meet the flames of hell."[83]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_thought_and_legacy_of_Khomeini

You see this evil method of figting was actually brought by u shias, I just dey laugh at the way you reason, pls Read! don't Just follow.

you presented what actually justifies my words.the above you presented,whether suicide bombers or nuclear weapons were used,they were used against military targets and that was endorsed by Ayatollah Khomeini.


You are very funny, maybe you did not really understand what I was saying, but you were in a haste to reply, as anybody that follows the link I gave will notice that the replies you made, had no place in the discussion under place, this Kafir that you supprted even denies God, yet you Juilantly followed his article without even refuting the falseness in which he wrote, Lagoshia, the so called Wahabi scholars you keep yapping about, were correct in most of the assertions they made, that is they rejected mixing Islamic beliefs with that of other Faiths, what wrong is there in that? they said they do not support placing the Qur'an, the Bible, and the Torah in one Book, what is wrong in that? You are being wiser by half - I am sorry to use this Language- as you were not refuting their views in that article, but you were Just interested in attacking them, none of what you wrote in your initial reply had any bearing to that article, but again Oga Karbala only wants to attack the Wahabis at any Junction. The Funny thing is the Op of that thread simply gave a misleading Thread name only to defame Islam yet Oga Karbala felt that is small compared to what the Wahabis have done to him,pls take am easy. shocked shocked shocked

i am not ready to go there again.if you go through the thread you will see that the wahhabis were extreme.


Your smartness should have allowed you reliase what I was saying, but the Karbala spirit is intoxicating you too much. An article that was written to deface Islam and the Wahabis what do u think is the greater Theft? Oh, I forgot the Wahabis callled Yazeed a caliph that really hurts you that ws why a Godless Kafir attack on Islam meant nothing to you. shocked

are you really a muslim?

what would be the Prophet's reaction if he could read the above?


Shia militia' behind Iraq blast
The Ghazil pet market bombing in Baghdad on 23 November 2007
At least 13 people were killed and dozens hurt in the blast
A US military spokesman in Iraq has blamed Iranian-backed Shia militants for a bomb attack on a pet market in Baghdad that killed at least 13 people.

The bomb, hidden in a box of birds at the popular Ghazil market, also injured dozens on Friday.

Rear Adm Gregory Smith said four people had been arrested overnight and that confessions pointed to an Iranian-backed special groups cell.

He said the cell wanted the blame to fall on Sunni al-Qaeda militants.

Rogue elements

Adm Smith said the overnight raids and detentions were carried out by Iraqi and coalition forces.


The group's purpose was to make it appear al-Qaeda was responsible for this attack
Rear Admiral Gregory Smith

In pictures: Market blast

"Based on subsequent confessions, forensics and other intelligence, the bombing was the work of an Iranian-backed special groups cell operating here in Baghdad."

The BBC's Jim Muir in the capital says this is the name generally given by the Americans to rogue elements of the Mehdi Army militia who have ignored the call by their supposed leader, Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, to halt all military activities.

Bomb attacks such as Friday's are generally linked to Sunni al-Qaeda militants.

Adm Smith said: "The group's purpose was to make it appear al-Qaeda was responsible for this attack."

He said this was to frighten the Shia community into supporting the militias as protectors

your challenge has been met we can even go to Parkistan or Lebanon, there are many examples abound.

do you know why i will reject the above?

there was a plan in those days to ensure that a sunni-shia war erupts in iraq.the same people who would bomb shia mosques and civilians were the ones who will plan again to bomb sunni mosques and civilians.

when the Holy Mosque in Samarra which houses the tombs of the 10th and 11th Imams (as) was bombed,the shia street was boiling for revenge.but iraq'a highest shia religious authority,Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani issued a fatwa which forbids revenge on innocent sunnis.the difference is quite clear.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 9:48pm On Mar 24, 2011
illusion2:

Inasmuch as I try to avoid arguments that have no end , you have shown yourself to be less of the cerebral human being I initially thought you were, but actually an intellectual paperweight or maybe you’re studying to be an Ayatollah- I advise you should steer clear of politics.

thanks.


I make bold to say ,you have never being to Bahrain before, all your information is gleaned from Shia websites ,which by themselves have an agenda.You come to a ‘neutral’ site like NL & spew absolute nonsense !
i have never visited bahrain before.have you visited palestine or elsewhere to know what is happening there?we are not living in the stoneage.we got satellite news channels and the internet.nontheless i dont visit shia websites exclusively for my info.the world media and the majority shia of bahrain cannot be wrong in their opposition to the king.and so what if i go to a shia or buddhist wesbite?you accuse me of this and that while you're the one that is narrow-minded.

Imam Ali (as) said: follow the truth and you will know those who follow it.

in other words dont identify truth or falsehood based on people's identity.identify people's identity based on truth.


If you are arguing the merits of Shia over Sunni Islam or the role of Imam Hussain in Islamic jurisprudence, I certainly can’t argue with you, but we are talking POLITICS here ! FUNDAMENTAL ,BASIC & DIRTY POLITICS . I’m sorry your religious point of view is not relevant !
What percentage of Sunnis are struggling ? Are they (Sunnis) also concerned with the way things are?
What percentage of Shia support the recent protests? Do you know??
How many Shias hold senior positions in private & public organisations??
How many Shias are in the Bahraini Upper House (Shura council)
Where did you come up with your 300,000 out of 600,000 figure ??

you have most likely being following government websites and coming here to play the devil's advocate.from all indications,based on the ordinary man and based on the factions and parties that represent the shia,it is right to say that the overhwhelming majority of the shia and some sunnis do support the protests.

based on figures released from the pearl roundabout,over 300,000 people protested in the early days of the protests.the upper house of parliament in bahrain is made up mostly of men selected by the king himself to balance the voice of the people and quell it.


Because I gave you some facts & figures ,you decided to come up with your voodoo maths .
You are a bigoted rascal no offense intended . cheesy

suit yourself.


If you weren’t a scoundrel(no offense intended) , you would have referred to the Bahraini map as advised and seen that large swathes of the south are UNINHABITED !

so 50% of sunni representation were voted for by the "uninhabited swathes of the south"?!!!

how can parliamentarians represent empty lands?lol


There are Shias not only in the Northern Gvernorates but in all, its just that the North is almost exclusively Shia while the ssouthern is almost exclusively Sunni. There are 3 other Governorates – Capital ,Muharraq & Central – facts - not religious ideology ! Are there more Shia in bahrain-absolutely , are they proportionally represented no ! Is there a need for reform certainly .

REFORMS NOT MATYRS !!

so if you agree there is need for reform and the shia are under-represented and the king is undemocratic,then what are you arguing about??


If you weren’t so blinded by your religion ,you would have read that I said –IT IS WRONG FOR THE GOVT TO CREATE VOTING DISTRICTS LIKE THAT !!! I went further to give another unfair example in Nigeria which MUST be corrected ,but the question is should we kill Hausa people like you have asked the Bahraini Shias to kill PAKISTANIS & INDIANS because we do not agree with the political situation ??

you're again lying.i never called for attacks on civilians.also,you cant compare bahrain and nigeria.the entire bahrain is not up to the size of half of lagos.

i keep insisting that foreigners should not interefer in the affairs of their host countries.if those foreigners are recognized as citizens and they clashed with fellow citizens,then that is a communal clash.make up your mind.


Complete & utter nonsense – everything you have asked has been answered in previous posts. I cannot continue in never ending diatribe, I’m sorry I have work to do.

No offense but you seem to be a rascal & I can’t continue exchanging words with rascals especially genocidal & religiously blinded ones.
Case dismissed !!



suit yourself.

just be aware you're the one playing as the advocate for the genocidal tyrant of bahrain.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 10:15pm On Mar 24, 2011
(Holy Quran 11:117)

Allah knows who exactly the reformer is and who brings about corruption on earth. So great in Allah's eyes is the person who does reform (mosleh) that He has promised not to waste the reward of the reformer. Even if there is a city filled with corruptive people, He will not punish its people if there are those who promote good in it

The Indivisible Divine Package :

http://islamicinsights.com/religion/religion/the-indivisible-divine-package.html
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by Sweetnecta: 3:59am On Mar 25, 2011
@Lagosshia; « #166 on: Yesterday at 09:26:28 AM »
[Quote]would those who attempt to kill prophets and those who actually killed prophets be forgiven?what is their punishment?and if they will be forgiven on what basis?what is your view on forgiving or punishing them?do you pray for their forgiveness?do you endorse their actions?please answer each question.[/Quote]The former enemy of Islam who killed HAmza [ra] finally became Muslim, a companion of the prophet in the lifetime of the Messenger [As]. This same man [Washi] and Ali bin Abi Talib [ra] both killed an enemy of Islam in one of the later battles, in the lifetime of the Messenger. Those who are evildoers from the house of the prophets [Noah an Lut [as]] were punished in the lifetime of each prophet. When it came to prophet Muhammad [as], his uncle Abi Lahab and his wife were declared to be doom and died as indicated in the Quran in the lifetime of the noblest of all messengers[as].
we cant say that Aisha [ra] his wife who say him not only as a husband, but as a mate/husband and he died in her presence is the same as the doomed wives of Noah and Lut. She was not punished at all in the presence of the messenger [as], instead was supported by Allah when the slander slandered her with rumor of infidelity. I do not pray for the killers of prophets. No one of the following is the killer of any prophet [AS]]; Abi Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Aisha, Hafsa [ra]. Tell me which prophet any killed, if you know.



[Quote]your statement is equal to calling the sahabas "prophets" or chosen men.there is nowhere Allah chose the contemporaries of the Prophet Muhammad.if Allah chose the contemporaries of the Prophet Muhammad,then did He also do similarly for other prophets?then what happens to the sahaba of Issa who sold him and thus betrayed not only Prophet Jesus but the trust of Allah given to humanity in the form of a prophet.[/Quote]While my does not by any stretch of imagination amount to calling Sahaba [ra] prophet [as], Allah chose which soul that must live in a particular time, unless you do say we occur without Allah's firm design of when we arrive on earth. Further, some have argued that ahadith can be found where the messenger [as] said if there were not that no prophet will come after me, a companion would have been a prophet. I remember reading a piece from you where you said the messenger said Ali bin Abi Talib [ra] to me is like what Harun was to Musa{as]. Incidentally both were prophets.
The second blod is not known from the Quran. Allah did not say that a companion of Issa bin Maryam[as] betrayed him. If you know the verse in the Quran that indicates such an event, let me know. Maybe you have ahadith that you can share with me. Please do, since I am just a toddler in Islam.



[Quote]even yazeed could have fabricated a few hadiths to say that he was promised paradise.[/QUote]Are you saying that there is no good news of paradise to any companion of our beloved messenger [as]?



[Quote][b]the problem is you do not know the rank (maqam) of the Ahlul-Bayt.secondly you're trying to diminish what happened to them and the attrocities committed against them by viewing what happened as simply "disagreement".that is not the case.the members of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) who Allah has cleansed and chosen and especially the ones chosen divinely as "imams" (leaders of the ummah and successors of the Prophet) were murdered.the daughter of the Prophet herself was threatened that her house would be burnt down.when people informed umar that the daughter of Muhammad is inside,he said he doesnt care.Hussain,the grandson of the Prophet was beheaded.if you view all the attrocities and calamities that befell the Holy Household as mere "disagreements",then you really got to question your heart.something is missing somewhere.

to us Hassan and Hussain are of no less importance than Isaac and Ishmael.to us saying "Allahuma salli ala Muhammad wa Alli Muhammad kama sallaita ala Ibrahim wa Alli Ibrahim" is very important and has deep meanings.if you claim that the sahabas who were fallible men and far from being angelic or prophetic were chosen by Allah,then how much more the family of the Messenger of Allah?but your claim anyways is wrong.
[/b][/Quote]While i do not think that the shia has a leg up in love of the messenger and his believing household than others in Islam, there is no way you can read my mind and know where i lean in all my posts. No one has exclusivity based on what club or group they belong to. Prophets are [AS] while others at best [RA]. The Christians think that they truly love Jesus son of Mary as they exaggerate his praise. Yet it is the Muslims who give him his full measure of love and leadership that is due him [as].



[Quote]do you also find it impossible that the wives of Noah and Lot who are cursed in the Quran will end up in hell?do you find it impossible that the Prophet Muhammad's uncle and his wife will end up in hell according to the Quran?these are things we must look into objectively and not what we feel about them with our soft hearts.[/Quote]Tell me where any of the following is put in the category as above; Abi Bakr, Umar Khattab, Uthma Affan, Aisha bint Abi Bakr [Zaujat Muhammad [AS]], Hafsa bint Umar Khattab [Zaujat Muhammad [AS]].



[Quote]that is not islamic at all to say that the followers must always be like the leaders.so what happens to the one that betrayed Jesus from among his own companions?[/Quote]Apart from the fact that my statement above is something of deep thinking, I believe there is a hadith towards that idea. I do not know any verse of the Quran that says that a companion of Issa bin Maryam [as] betrayed him. maybe you need to show me, since I am not dealing with the Bible in our brotherly conversation. Those who accepted Nuh [as] as their true leader went into the ship with him. Those who accepted Lut [as] as their leader were saved with him. The followers of Tyrannical Firawn perished with him.



[Quote]ameen!
you're welcome!!
wrong concept again!!![/Quote]from the sahaba of Muhammad [as] we had Ali who slept on his spot not fearing for his life in the hands of the makkans. from the same sahaba, we had Uthman who entered Makka and didnt make Umrah because others were not even allowed in. From the same Sahaba we had Umar who did not make his migration a secret, daring the makkans to go against him. from the same sahaba we had Abu Bakr who the prophet chose to be his companion during the greatest of the migrations.
in the companion of Jesus, using your statement, we have a betrayer. the bible says that peter denied him 3 times before dawn. no one of them was present at the alleged hanging.
Please tell me which set of companion is more  noble? Which is the more noble leader, since you are a muslim? Who did Allah complete Islam upon, stopping revelation on him and making him the only messenger to all mankind; Isaa bin Maryam or Muhammad bin Abdullah? Alhamdulillah. Thanks for your efforts.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by vedaxcool(m): 9:04am On Mar 25, 2011
LagosShia:

i wouldnt expect something more intelligent from you anyways.

Good, because that is how your response is "intelligently" given.

LagosShia:

a few hundred died in egypt.is that what you call peaceful?and the bahraini king is ready to kill even more to stay on power.where in the world have we ever witnessed a head of state getting support from a neigboring country to kill his own people?

Keep whining, reminds donkey in Shriek. You sound like a stakeholder in Bahrain, I almost taught you were in the wifaq party. Keep answering questions that were not asked. I maintain that Bahrains need to stick together instead of killing each other it only serves the oppressor's plan, and Oga Karbala sectarian conjectures

LagosShia:

i never called for a war."hymen" came here in support of the king and tried to justify his massacres by saying that the anti-govt. protesters attacked other protesters who are pro-govt and the security forces.i simply responded that the shia protesters have a right to defend themselves.but i kept denying that the anti-govt. protesters killed anyone who was peaceful or civilians from the opposing camp.from there on,you guys keep repeating the same nonsense that i am caling for attacks on peaceful protesters.you all forgot that the anti-govt. protesters are the ones on the defensive and it was the govt. that turned everything violent.why do you ignore that?

The question was directed to uplawal, yet you are just in misanswering mode, that is why you keep giving answers to questions that were not asked or directed at you.

LagosShia:

let me repeat again lest you distort my words:

whether it was shia that started or justified suicide bombings based on islamic jurisprudence is another topic entirely.

It's very much the issue, Khomini erred in supporting such a thing. This i negative influence has spread beyound military targets and is now considered a legitimate way of fighting. Distorting your words of whimsical value to me, Clearly this evil way of fighting which apparently shias has stopped using, was brought to Islam by Shias.

LagosShia:

the issue i pointed out is the fact that nowhere have we witnessed shia suicide bombers in market place either sent or endorsed by our religious institutions-meaning our grand scholars of jurisprudence.

Hezbollah and its proto-organization Islamic Jihad initiated the suicide terror campaign in
Lebanon in the early 1980s. The Ayatollah Khomeini sent 1,000 troops of the Iranian
Revolutionary guard to Lebanon to establish a base to export the Islamic Revolution.16
Subsequently, the first suicide bombing of the modern era occurred in 1981, when the Iraniansupported
Shiite group al-Dawa detonated a car bomb at the Iraqi Embassy, causing 61
fatalities.17 After the Israeli incursion into Lebanon in 1982, Iranian-influenced Shiite groups
coalesced into Hezbollah. Its first suicide attack occurred on 11 November 1982, when a suicide
truck bomb detonated outside the Israeli army headquarters in Tyre.18 In 1983, Hezbollah stepped
up its attacks against Western targets.
· In April 1983, suicide bombs against the American embassy in Beirut killed 63 civilians.
· In October 1983, suicide bombs against the American Marine barracks and French
Military living quarters killed 300 soldiers and civilians.
· The synchronization of the October attacks would become a tactic emulated by Al
Qaeda.19
UNCLASSIFIED - 4

I thought they only target the Milliatry, it seems you have forgot that an explosion cannot differentiate between a soldier and a civilian or are all civillians from the west Great Satans? . if your concern is only about market, then you are clearly being myopic.

LagosShia:

you presented what actually justifies my words.the above you presented,whether suicide bombers or nuclear weapons were used,they were used against military targets and that was endorsed by Ayatollah Khomeini.

Did u asked how often civilians died beside the military.


LagosShia:

i am not ready to go there again.if you go through the thread you will see that the wahhabis were extreme.


LagosShia:

are you really a muslim?

man are you well at all? if questions are too tough for you to answer, at lest say pass grin

LagosShia:

what would be the Prophet's reaction if he could read the above?

what would be the prophet reaction to this:

LagosShia:



under your beloved king,bahrain has being turned into a brothel for saudi prostitution and immoral activities.foreigners who are benefitting from the status quo would no doubt feel bad if the immoral system is to be uprooted.

i want to ask out of curiosity.maybe you're "dating" one/some of those gulf princes/men who travel to bahrain for their sexual and immoral escapades.are you sure you have no interest at risk at the prospect of regime change in bahrain??
?

LagosShia:

there was a plan in those days to ensure that a sunni-shia war erupts in iraq.the same people who would bomb shia mosques and civilians were the ones who will plan again to bomb sunni mosques and civilians.

Selective amnesia in play

LagosShia:

when the Holy Mosque in Samarra which houses the tombs of the 10th and 11th Imams (as) was bombed,the shia street was boiling for revenge.but iraq'a highest shia religious authority,Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani issued a fatwa which forbids revenge on innocent sunnis.the difference is quite clear.

Also on June 20, 2007, according to police, a Sunni mosque suffered minor damage from a bomb attack in the town of Iskandariyah, and another Sunni mosque was badly damaged by a bomb attack in the town of Jbela, south of Baghdad

On June 20, 2007, suspected members of a Shi'a militia reportedly detonated a bomb inside a Sunni mosque in Haswa, south of Baghdad. Hours later, attackers struck a mosque near Hillah and targeted the imam's house near the mosque, but the cleric fled when he saw them coming, according to the police

On June 16, 2007, witnesses and security officials stated hooded gunmen in black blew up the Sunni Ashrah al-Mubashra mosque in Basra after ordering police officers at the mosque to flee.

On June 15, 2007, an explosion destroyed the Sunni Talha Bin al-Zubair mosque in Basra, apparently in retaliation for the June 13, 2007, destruction of the two minarets of the Askariya Shrine in Samarra, one of the holiest Shi'a shrines. The attack was similar to the February 22, 2006, destruction of the shrine's golden dome that sparked a wave of retaliatory sectarian violence throughout the country.

on August 27, 2007, a suicide bomber blew himself up in a Sunni mosque in Fallujah during the evening prayers. The explosion killed ten worshippers, including the imam of the mosque

But I guess lagoshia is only interested in Suicide bombers in market place.

Again look at how your shia cleric overuled Khomini:

Wahhabi extremist Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi has quoted Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab urging his followers to kill Shi'a of Iraq.[82] In 2007 some of the Shia ulema have responded by declared suicide bombing haram:

"حتي كساني كه با انتحار مي‌‏آيند و مي‌‏زنند عده‌‏اي را مي‌‏كشند، آن هم به عنوان عمليات انتحاري، اينها در قعر جهنم هستند"
"Even those who kill people with suicide bombing, these shall meet the flames of hell."[83]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_thought_and_legacy_of_Khomeini
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 7:01pm On Mar 25, 2011
Sweetnecta:

@Lagosshia; « #166 on: Yesterday at 09:26:28 AM »The former enemy of Islam who killed HAmza [ra] finally became Muslim, a companion of the prophet in the lifetime of the Messenger [As]. This same man [Washi] and Ali bin Abi Talib [ra] both killed an enemy of Islam in one of the later battles, in the lifetime of the Messenger. Those who are evildoers from the house of the prophets [Noah an Lut [as]] were punished in the lifetime of each prophet. When it came to prophet Muhammad [as], his uncle Abi Lahab and his wife were declared to be doom and died as indicated in the Quran in the lifetime of the noblest of all messengers[as].
we cant say that Aisha [ra] his wife who say him not only as a husband, but as a mate/husband and he died in her presence is the same as the doomed wives of Noah and Lut. She was not punished at all in the presence of the messenger [as], instead was supported by Allah when the slander slandered her with rumor of infidelity. I do not pray for the killers of prophets. No one of the following is the killer of any prophet [AS]]; Abi Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Aisha, Hafsa [ra]. Tell me which prophet any killed, if you know.

do not drift from the point.you said that the only sin that cannot be forgiven is shirk.i then asked what about those who attempted to kill prophets (and ofcourse died in the sinful state of disbelief like abu lahab) and those that actually killed prophets like the companion of Issa?

do you agree that those too have punishments that amount to shirk and kufr?

apart from that to reply the allegations you made in the above:

Hur was a commander in the army of Yazeed.he was responsible for besieging Imam Hussain and cutting off water from reaching him.but Hur repented even at the last moment and joined the side of Imam Hussain.Hur was the first to be matyred in Karbala.this is the extent how much (shia) islam emphasizes on repentance.

but what about those who died in a state of no repentance? when Fatima died she died with anger and swearing against Abu Bakr and those who usurped the right of the Prophet's Family.are you saying the Prophet never informed Fatima of what would happen after him? if Abu Bakr died in a state of repentance Allah would not have taken the life of Fatima until she had forgiven Abu Bakr.but that was not the case.when you speak of Fatima,you should know that we are talking of Muhammad.the Prophet said:Fatima is from me and I am from her.whoever angers her angers me and whoever angers me angers Allah.

when talking about the families of prophets and their companions,the thesis you presented was that the Prophet Muhammad's companions were chosen by Allah.and I am yet to see that proved.however i am happy you have come to realize that prophets are not responsible for the actions of those who are around them.and the example of that were the wives of Noah and Lot.

you said both the wives of Noah and Lut were punished in this life.true.but also they will be punished in the next and here is what the Quran says:

Allah sets forth, for an example to the Unbelievers, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lut: they were (respectively) under two of Our righteous servants but they were false to their (husbands), and they profited nothing before Allah on their account, but were told: "Enter ye the Fire along with (others) that enter!"(66:10)

as for Aisha,the Prophet had foretold about the battle of jamal she fought against Imam Ali and that she should not partake in it.but the rest is history.she didnt kill any prophet but she acted irresponsibly and disobeyed the Prophet's vision to her after his death and that resulted in a civil war which costed the ummah thousands of lives.

Umar is responsible for the assault against Sayyida Fatima's house.

there was nothing wrong with usthman at all.his main fault was accepting the caliphate which never belonged to him or to those who dressed him with it.when he got it,he was corrupt and misused the treasury to favor his near ones.

infact the usurpation of the caliphate starting from abu bakr,is the first attrocity against the Prophet's Family Members whom Allah had chosen to lead the ummah.the crimes committed against them reached its peak when yazeed got hold of the caliphate and the tragedy of Karbala occurred.


While my does not by any stretch of imagination amount to calling Sahaba [ra] prophet [as], Allah chose which soul that must live in a particular time, unless you do say we occur without Allah's firm design of when we arrive on earth. Further, some have argued that ahadith can be found where the messenger [as] said if there were not that no prophet will come after me, a companion would have been a prophet. I remember reading a piece from you where you said the messenger said Ali bin Abi Talib [ra] to me is like what Harun was to Musa{as]. Incidentally both were prophets.
The second blod is not known from the Quran. Allah did not say that a companion of Issa bin Maryam[as] betrayed him. If you know the verse in the Quran that indicates such an event, let me know. Maybe you have ahadith that you can share with me. Please do, since I am just a toddler in Islam.

Allah chose all souls when they should live.and at every period,the souls created by Allah in every time of mankind's stay on earth,there were good and bad ones.for you to tell me that Allah chose which souls live on earth at what time,is like telling me that that makes it impossible for there to be bad ones among the contemporaries of the Prophet Muhammad.according to you Muhammad (sa) is the best Messenger so his companions must also be the best.i told you there is no place for that in islam.i even pointed out that one of the sahaba of Issa betrayed him.was it not also Allah that chose him to live in that time?when Allah chooses for us to live,we were all sinless.there is no concept of "original sin" in islam for instance.so when we live on earth,each is responsible for his or her actions.some stay good while others turn bad.one thing is for sure,for every Moses there is a Pharoah.and for every Muhammad there is an Abu Lahab.and for every Ali there is the likes of Abu Bakr and Muawiya.and finally,for every Hussain there is a yazeed.that is the world and people for you.we cant change that.


Are you saying that there is no good news of paradise to any companion of our beloved messenger [as]?
not at all.there are many good companions,we love so much who even sunnis ignore.great deal is placed on the likes of abu bakr and co. not simply because they were ordinary sahabas but because of politics and power and corruption.


While i do not think that the shia has a leg up in love of the messenger and his believing household than others in Islam, there is no way you can read my mind and know where i lean in all my posts. No one has exclusivity based on what club or group they belong to. Prophets are [AS] while others at best [RA]. The Christians think that they truly love Jesus son of Mary as they exaggerate his praise. Yet it is the Muslims who give him his full measure of love and leadership that is due him [as].

the issue of Issa is one.the issues of the Household of Muhammad are two.how? Issa was not killed by the christians.we know the difference on the issue of who love him more has to do with who has the correct beliefs about him.but the Household,i should exclaim Allahu Akbar!!!

aside,the issue of correct belief regarding the Household of Muhammad,there is the issue of crimes committed against them.the Family members were killed by those who claimed to be "muslims" and part of the ummah of Muhammad (sa).so on the second issue,you should at least realize that you cannot love Muhammad and then also at the same time love those who hated and massacred his Family members.the situation is so bad that a man like Zakir Naik,a famous indian sunni preacher says "radiallahu anhu" ("may Allah be please with him"wink after mentioning the name of the accursed tyrant and satan,Yazeed son of Muawiya son of Abu Sufyan (the arch-foe of the Prophet who embraced islam out of disgrace,shame and humialition he felt and not for the belief in Allah).


Tell me where any of the following is put in the category as above; Abi Bakr, Umar Khattab, Uthma Affan, Aisha bint Abi Bakr [Zaujat Muhammad [AS]], Hafsa bint Umar Khattab [Zaujat Muhammad [AS]].

you still miss the point.the problem occurred after the Prophet passed away.nontheless we have verses in the Quran which warn the believers generally that if they change for the worse it would be to their own loss.


Apart from the fact that my statement above is something of deep thinking, I believe there is a hadith towards that idea. I do not know any verse of the Quran that says that a companion of Issa bin Maryam [as] betrayed him. maybe you need to show me, since I am not dealing with the Bible in our brotherly conversation. Those who accepted Nuh [as] as their true leader went into the ship with him. Those who accepted Lut [as] as their leader were saved with him. The followers of Tyrannical Firawn perished with him.

you should provide the hadith and you will see the falsehood in it.if all followers must be like their prophet leaders,then why did the companions of Musa and Haroon start worshipping a calf?were Musa and Haroon,two great prophets of Allah,worshippers of "calf" for you to be able to say that the followers followed the path of their leaders? if any such hadith exist,then it is in clear contradiction to the Quran and that hadith is worthless.

there is no verse from the Quran on Issa's companion,but you'd no doubt find in the hadith.but for the sake not to drift from the topic into yet another,the Quran talks about the companions/followers of Musa who worshipped a calf.i hope that serves the purpose.


from the sahaba of Muhammad [as] we had Ali who slept on his spot not fearing for his life in the hands of the makkans. from the same sahaba, we had Uthman who entered Makka and didnt make Umrah because others were not even allowed in. From the same Sahaba we had Umar who did not make his migration a secret, daring the makkans to go against him. from the same sahaba we had Abu Bakr who the prophet chose to be his companion during the greatest of the migrations.
in the companion of Jesus, using your statement, we have a betrayer. the bible says that peter denied him 3 times before dawn. no one of them was present at the alleged hanging.
Please tell me which set of companion is more noble? Which is the more noble leader, since you are a muslim? Who did Allah complete Islam upon, stopping revelation on him and making him the only messenger to all mankind; Isaa bin Maryam or Muhammad bin Abdullah? Alhamdulillah. Thanks for your efforts.

it is not the sincerity or goodness of the companions of any prophet that makes the prophet great.it is Allah who had chosen and made His prophet great.

from the companions of Muhammad you have one who ran from the battle-field and thought everything is done and over because rumor was spreading like wild-fire that Muhammad had being killed.then this was revealed:

Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many were the messengers that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.(3:144)

the same man insulted the Prophet and denied him writing materials when the Prophet was on his death bed breaching his last seconds.you should guess who was that?that is your homework.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 9:14pm On Mar 25, 2011
British MP George Galloway speaks against the oppression in Bahrain:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0YRPjfHUJw&feature=related
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 9:15pm On Mar 25, 2011
please a mod should kindly fix my post in response to "sweetnecta".
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 9:16pm On Mar 25, 2011
vedaxcool:


I maintain that Bahrains need to stick together instead of killing each other it only serves the oppressor's plan, and Oga Karbala sectarian conjectures

bahrainis cannot stick together because the oppressor's plan clearly is sectarian.the bahrainis can stick togther when you have sunnis both in and outside of bahrain supporting their shia brothers.if not,the oppressor's plan is aimed at alienating the shia and favoring the sunnis.the sunnis must rise up against the oppression done against the shia for us to stick together as one and part of the same body called islam.i wish for that to happen.you can start by exposing the oppression and brutality of the oppressor and not forming baseless arguments against the oppressed or the victims of oppression and brutality.


It's very much the issue, Khomini erred in supporting such a thing. This i negative influence has spread beyound military targets and is now considered a legitimate way of fighting. Distorting your words of whimsical value to me, Clearly this evil way of fighting which apparently shias has stopped using, was brought to Islam by Shias.

your logic is like saying (and may Allah forgive me) that because Allah started the act of sending prophets to mankind,that is the reason we have so many false prophets around.

Khomeini started it to target superior militaries and to create a balance of fear.not to use it to kill civilians.


Hezbollah and its proto-organization Islamic Jihad initiated the suicide terror campaign in
Lebanon in the early 1980s. The Ayatollah Khomeini sent 1,000 troops of the Iranian
Revolutionary guard to Lebanon to establish a base to export the Islamic Revolution.16
Subsequently, the first suicide bombing of the modern era occurred in 1981, when the Iraniansupported
Shiite group al-Dawa detonated a car bomb at the Iraqi Embassy, causing 61
fatalities.17 After the Israeli incursion into Lebanon in 1982, Iranian-influenced Shiite groups
coalesced into Hezbollah. Its first suicide attack occurred on 11 November 1982, when a suicide
truck bomb detonated outside the Israeli army headquarters in Tyre.18 In 1983, Hezbollah stepped
up its attacks against Western targets.
• In April 1983, suicide bombs against the American embassy in Beirut killed 63 civilians.
• In October 1983, suicide bombs against the American Marine barracks and French
Military living quarters killed 300 soldiers and civilians.
• The synchronization of the October attacks would become a tactic emulated by Al
Qaeda.19
UNCLASSIFIED - 4

I thought they only target the Milliatry, it seems you have forgot that an explosion cannot differentiate between a soldier and a civilian or are all civillians from the west Great Satans? . if your concern is only about market, then you are clearly being myopic.

hezbollah and palestinian group have never used suicide bombings to target their fellow lebanese and palestinians.all the instances you mentioned were justified and military targets.if your issue about the explosion mistakenly affecting civilians,then the risk always exists in whatever form you may use to defend yourself.my point remains that never has any shia scholar or any shia used suicide bombing or even any other means of fighting to attack civilians.


Did u asked how often civilians died beside the military.



that is why even here in Nigeria,you are always warned to "keep off" from those areas.that warning is even more serious when a country is at war.


man are you well at all? if questions are too tough for you to answer, at lest say pass grin

no muslim would use the phrase "the karbala spirit is intoxicating you" and still shamelessly claim to be muslim.in your sight Karbala is likened to intoxicants.what a great "muslim" you're!!!ask Allah for forgiveness.


what would be the prophet reaction to this:
?

Selective amnesia in play

you will get the chance to know.inshaAllah.


Also on June 20, 2007, according to police, a Sunni mosque suffered minor damage from a bomb attack in the town of Iskandariyah, and another Sunni mosque was badly damaged by a bomb attack in the town of Jbela, south of Baghdad

On June 20, 2007, suspected members of a Shi'a militia reportedly detonated a bomb inside a Sunni mosque in Haswa, south of Baghdad. Hours later, attackers struck a mosque near Hillah and targeted the imam's house near the mosque, but the cleric fled when he saw them coming, according to the police

On June 16, 2007, witnesses and security officials stated hooded gunmen in black blew up the Sunni Ashrah al-Mubashra mosque in Basra after ordering police officers at the mosque to flee.

On June 15, 2007, an explosion destroyed the Sunni Talha Bin al-Zubair mosque in Basra, apparently in retaliation for the June 13, 2007, destruction of the two minarets of the Askariya Shrine in Samarra, one of the holiest Shi'a shrines. The attack was similar to the February 22, 2006, destruction of the shrine's golden dome that sparked a wave of retaliatory sectarian violence throughout the country.

on August 27, 2007, a suicide bomber blew himself up in a Sunni mosque in Fallujah during the evening prayers. The explosion killed ten worshippers, including the imam of the mosque

But I guess lagoshia is only interested in Suicide bombers in market place.

i have explained to you the issue in iraq.i thank God in the instances you presented i read "suspected members of a shia militia".that means,they are not sure of them being shia.

secondly,i explained that there was a deliberate plan in iraq to make sure a sunni-shia war erupt.the same people who would attack shia mosques and the same ones who will plan again to attack sunni mosques.in that case,the layman would think two muslim groups are attacking themselves.the layman then will also join the attack.

i also mentioned that when the shia Holy Mosque which houses the tombs of the 10th and 11 th Imams (as) were attacked,there was shia anger and a drive for revenge.in order to stop any possible attack on sunni mosques,Ayatollah Sistani forbade any such attackes against our sunni brothers.


Again look at how your shia cleric overuled Khomini:

Wahhabi extremist Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi has quoted Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab urging his followers to kill Shi'a of Iraq.[82] In 2007 some of the Shia ulema have responded by declared suicide bombing haram:

"حتي كساني كه با انتحار مي‌‏آيند و مي‌‏زنند عده‌‏اي را مي‌‏كشند، آن هم به عنوان عمليات انتحاري، اينها در قعر جهنم هستند"
"Even those who kill people with suicide bombing, these shall meet the flames of hell."[83]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_thought_and_legacy_of_Khomeini

ignorance is bad.

suicide bombings in the case of iraq targets civilians and is therefore haram.suicide bombings used as a last resort to defend oneself against superior militaries that destroy your country and people is allowed as a last resort.that is islamic fiqh.even sunnis have accepted that including their scholars.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 10:28am On Mar 26, 2011
Bahrain's Foreign Police Add to Tensions

Bahrain's ruling family is moving to shore up its security forces with more recruits from Pakistan, in a move that risks further stoking nationalist and sectarian tensions in the Persian Gulf state.

The Al Khalifa family, Sunni Muslims who rule over a Shiite-majority population, have long relied on recruits from Sunni-majority countries such as Pakistan, Jordan and Yemen to fill the ranks of their police forces. As antigovernment protests have flared in Bahrain, culminating in a violent crackdown last week, the monarchy has turned again to Pakistan military-linked foundations to find recruits for its security forces.

This month, Bahrani recruiters for the National Guard, a paramilitary body, signed up 1,000 new security personnel during road shows in Pakistan, according to officials with military foundations in Pakistan that organized the recruitment.

A spokeswoman for the Bahraini government declined to comment on its policy of recruiting foreigners to its security forces.

Bahrain's dependency on foreign workers to fill security and other jobs has vexed Bahraini Shiites, who see it as an attempt to tilt the religious balance in the country and exclude them from jobs. Many are angered by the role of Pakistani policemen in suppressing the antigovernment protests.

Two Pakistani-born policemen and three other Pakistanis have been killed in recent weeks and about 40 others injured, according to the Pakistan Embassy in Bahrain. There are concerns that others in the 65,000-strong Pakistani community in Bahrain—most of them guest workers doing jobs that have nothing to do with the police, such as construction—could be vulnerable.

Bahrain's opposition groups deny they are targeting the wider Pakistani community. They say Pakistani police have been injured because they are often on the front lines of clashes with antigovernment protesters.

But some Pakistani workers say they're afraid. A 30-year-old Pakistani salesman who gave his name only as Arsalan, said protesters attacked his home in the suburbs of Manama with stones and Molotov cocktails. "They were saying all Pakistanis should leave Bahrain," Mr. Arsalan said.

The killings of policemen and attacks on Pakistani workers are front-page news in Pakistan, where the government has faced questions about the wisdom of helping staff Bahrain's police force as violence there has escalated.

There are also worries that Pakistanis are being drawn into a sectarian conflict. Shiite heavyweight Iran has strongly criticized the crackdown on protesters by Bahrain and its Sunni-ruled allies, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates; the Saudis have sent troops to the island, and the U.A.E. sent police.

Tehmina Janjua, a spokeswoman for Pakistan's Foreign Ministry, said the danger to Pakistanis, many of whom have lived for years in Bahrain and become Bahraini citizens, is being overplayed by Pakistan's media and the government has no plans to repatriate workers.

"I don't think we should paint it in a sectarian color," Ms. Janjua said. The government, she added, played no role in sending police to Bahrain.

Still, Pakistan's powerful military is involved through organizations that recruit police for Bahrain.

These recruits are increasingly "seen as the repressive arm of the state" by Bahraini protesters, said Tariq Fatemi, a security analyst and former Pakistani ambassador to the U.S. and to Middle Eastern countries.

"The royal family of Bahrain feels much more comfortable having foreigners to guard them than locals," said Jean-François Seznec, a professor at Georgetown University who studies Bahrain. "They are mercenaries and they are reliable to whoever hires them."

In Pakistan, some of the new recruits waiting to ship to Bahrain later this month say they are willing to face the dangers to benefit from pay scales they could never attain at home. "The situation is not very good there but I'm willing to work anywhere if I get good pay," said S. Khan, a 29-year-old university graduate from the northwestern city of Peshawar. Mr. Khan said he has been offered almost $400 a month to work for Bahrain's security forces, seven times what he got in a Peshawar factory making matches.

Others have gotten cold feet. In Gujranwala, a scrubby city in Pakistan's Punjab province where some families have more than 40 relatives serving in Bahrain's government and police, people are worried about their kin. Muhammad Siddique, who runs a small grocery shop in Gujranwala, recently forbade his son to join Bahrain's navy. "I don't want to send my son to such a horrible situation," he said.

Mahmood Ahmed Khan, a retired Pakistani navy admiral who heads the Bahria Foundation, a navy-linked foundation involved in the latest recruitment for Bahrain's National Guard, said it began looking for workers in September, well before the start of the recent protests.

But he acknowledges the risks to Pakistani police and is running courses in etiquette to make sure they put forward a good face. "We'd like our people to work as ambassadors for Pakistan," he said.

Officials for the Fauji Foundation, a Pakistan army-linked organization involved in the latest recruitment, didn't respond to repeated requests to comment.

The roots of emigration from the Indian subcontinent to Persian Gulf nations goes back to the British colonial era, when locals who retired from the army would go to work as security officers in the newly oil-enriched Gulf states.

Pakistani emigration to Bahrain jumped to almost 6,000 people in 2010, a sixfold increase from 2001, official Pakistan government figures show. A breakdown of how many Pakistanis go into security-force jobs wasn't available, but Police of Pakistani origin in Bahrain say as many as 7,000 people from a police force of 25,000 come from Pakistan.

Khalil Almarzooq, a senior member of Al-Wefaq, Bahrain's largest opposition party, claims the government has used foreign Sunni Muslims in the security services to keep control of the population of 1.2 million, two-thirds of whom are Shiites. "The reason for the security apparatus is to protect the regime, not the people," he says.

Akhtar Mahmood, a 38-year-old Pakistani who has worked for 14 years in the police and hopes to soon become a full citizen, says the government can count on his support. "We are supporting the government and standing in front of the government against those who spoil Bahrain," he said.

Wall Street Journal

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703784004576220762563363574.html
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by vedaxcool(m): 12:45pm On Mar 26, 2011
LagosShia:

bahrainis cannot stick together because the oppressor's plan clearly is sectarian.the bahrainis can stick togther when you have sunnis both in and outside of bahrain supporting their shia brothers.if not,the oppressor's plan is aimed at alienating the shia and favoring the sunnis.the sunnis must rise up against the oppression done against the shia [size=18pt]for us[/size] to stick together as one and part of the same body called islam.i wish for that to happen.you can start by exposing the oppression and brutality of the oppressor and not forming baseless arguments against the oppressed or the victims of oppression and brutality.

sorry cry, I did not know you were from Bahrain, I would have understand you passionate defense and call for killing Foreigners shocked.
grin

LagosShia:

your logic is like saying (and may Allah forgive me) that because Allah started the act of sending prophets to mankind,that is the reason we have so many false prophets around.

Khomeini started it to target superior militaries and to create a balance of fear.not to use it to kill civilians.


what a Logical Fallacy!, how does sending prophet and Suicide bombing compare? I truly pity people like this, Now, you have the gut to compare Khomini - a mere mortal - with ALLAH, may ALLAh truly forgive you, as suicide is clearly prohibited in the Qur'an, so Khomini had no moral or scriptural justification for suicide bombings. Suicide is generally taken as Cowardice. ALLAH warned in the Qur'an, that believers should not go to the extreme because of the hatred of their enemy. Again Khomini was dead wrong, that is why shia scholars today overruled such practice. I restate what they wrote:

in 2007 some of the Shia ulema have responded by declared suicide bombing haram:

"حتي كساني كه با انتحار مي‌‏آيند و مي‌‏زنند عده‌‏اي را مي‌‏كشند، آن هم به عنوان عمليات انتحاري، اينها در قعر جهنم هستند"
"Even those who kill people with suicide bombing, these shall meet the flames of hell."[83]

LagosShia:

hezbollah and palestinian group have never used suicide bombings to target their fellow lebanese and palestinians.all the instances you mentioned were justified and military targets.if your issue about the explosion mistakenly affecting civilians,then the risk always exists in whatever form you may use to defend yourself.my point remains that never has any shia scholar or any shia used suicide bombing or even any other means of fighting to attack civilians.

Pathetic Hiss, it seem you were reading with your eyes closed, cause i just showed you an instance of Hezbollah killing civillians it seem Human life has no value to you, In Islam I understand you are not suppose to even destroy vegetation of your enemies or even kill animals during war, They are rules of war, but I know you shia claim to be wiser, did you say suicide bombing is not a sin despite ALLAH rejection of suicide? yet to you killing citizens of other country is a joke, you lack the deep reflection to know that, Hezbollah tomorrow can claim the sunnis in their country are traitors and attack them, in 2007 Hezbollah militants fought with their sunni counter - part and in the process both sides ended up killing civillians, now may be you do not watch cable news or you are simply unaware of this happenings, For any sane individual to claim that Shia militant groups have not targeted civilians during conflict is very troubling undecided and very much a displeasing lie. angry Now your concern has shifted from Market to fellow citizens,atleast we are making progress, may be you might shift ftom fellow citizens to fellow conutryman grin Have you heard of the word Civil war before? In a civil war you are either on one side or the other, trying to use dubious argument to defend suicide bomber that is so long as it is not use against your fellow citizens, again I asked have you heard of Civil war? Suicide bombing is used to fight enemies, even in Iraq Alqaeda used it against fellow Sunnis they looked upon as traitors, but i guess that eloped your ears. Again Sir, how does an explosion distinguish between an enemy and a fellow citizen?

LagosShia:

that is why even here in Nigeria,you are always warned to "keep off" from those areas.that warning is even more serious when a country is at war.

I laugh grin, imagine Hezbollah warning the Americans that they were going to bomb their embassy and civillians should keep off. Again Imagine red cross going to war torn places in Nigeria or else where to help the injured and displaced, so according to oga Karbala since they were warned to keep off, they are Halal target shocked . please i believe you can think better than that. cool

LagosShia:

no muslim would use the phrase "the karbala spirit is intoxicating you" and still shamelessly claim to be muslim.in your sight Karbala is likened to intoxicants.what a great "muslim" you're!!!ask Allah for forgiveness.

It must have really hurt you badly grin , I only yopu did not cry , if I may asked what did you understand by the phrase Karbala Spirit is intoxicating you? the deeply entrenched Hypocrisy you have been showing through out this thread is enough reason for us to to label you the chief of Munaffiqun, and I repeat the spirit of Karbala is Intoxicating you three times over, ALLAH reads my mind more than you Karbala antics for me to be swayed by your violent Hypocrisy, I am not going to indulge you at all in explaining what is meant by it, let you thoughts cause you more trauma tongue, cool This same individual that had the effrontery to compare ALLAh sending Prophets to the world with a a mere mortal who made suicide Bombing halal when ALLAH rejected suicide as a grave sin, yet you write gibberish after gibberish parading yourself as a Bahrain, I even doubt whether you might ever smell the air of Bahrain as even the shia will run away from you for your evil love for violence against anything contra. grin


LagosShia:

you will get the chance to know.inshaAllah.

Hypocrite! you could not bring yourself to answer the question? Ignoramus of Hypocritical proportions. If I may ask would you ever participate in suicide bombing if perharps, Ayatollah Khaminaei orders you to, I even heard that nasrallah - I have nothing against him, he is one of the most Charismatic Muslim figures in the world - was alledged to have stated that he is willing to divorce his wfe if the Ayatollah Khaminaei orders him to, because I am begining to doubt you Shianess grin.

LagosShia:

i have explained to you the issue in iraq.i thank God in the instances you presented i read "suspected members of a shia militia".that means,they are not sure of them being shia.

Please Humbly accept this title ' Master in the ART of BLIND ARGUMENT'. mR. kARBALA. you truly deserve it and have worked hard for it.

LagosShia:

secondly,i explained that there was a deliberate plan in iraq to make sure a sunni-shia war erupt.the same people who would attack shia mosques and the same ones who will plan again to attack sunni mosques.in that case,the layman would think two muslim groups are attacking themselves.the layman then will also join the attack.

so, Layman, do you knowwho was trying to perpetuating this dastardly acts?

LagosShia:

i also mentioned that when the shia Holy Mosque which houses the tombs of the 10th and 11 th Imams (as) were attacked,there was shia anger and a drive for revenge.in order to stop any possible attack on sunni mosques,Ayatollah Sistani forbade any such attackes against our sunni brothers.

But Shia militants still attacked. Keep living in utter delusions.

LagosShia:

ignorance is bad.

Spot on, especially when you are arguing with a Hypocritical Shia with Fanatical Tendencies, who compares things that do not have the same value.

LagosShia:

suicide bombings in the case of iraq targets civilians and is therefore haram.suicide bombings used as a last resort to defend oneself against superior militaries that destroy your country and people is allowed as a last resort.that is islamic fiqh.even sunnis have accepted that including their scholars.

it ra=target both civillians and military. Why the lies?
I taught according to you all sunni scholars were Ignorant? I showed you that Your shia scholars forbade Suicide Bombings but your fanatiscm has not let you explain why? instead he turns to sunnis for solace Again we have to ask why u insult reason and common sense? Can an explosion differentiate between a fellow citizen and an enemy?. The bolded part of statement again shows how utterly Ignorant you are, suicide Bombings is attacking not defending, even when I have showed how this suicide Bombing can result to dangerous results. And in all the case it has been used, it was never the last resort, it was more of the first line of attack. but I guess you have fallen in love with suicide bombings, that no amount of civilians it kills in the process can disuade you of how foolish the tactic is, it even depletes the number of fighters you have. Clearly it is an unwise tactics in the long run, unless, speaking hypothetically of cause, an entire country decides it is ready to use everything it got.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 2:38pm On Mar 26, 2011
vedaxcool:

what a Logical Fallacy!, how does sending prophet and Suicide bombing compare? I truly pity people like this, Now, you have the gut to compare Khomini - a mere mortal - with ALLAH, may ALLAh truly forgive you, as suicide is clearly prohibited in the Qur'an, so Khomini had no moral or scriptural justification for suicide bombings. Suicide is generally taken as Cowardice. ALLAH warned in the Qur'an, that believers should not go to the extreme because of the hatred of their enemy. Again Khomini was dead wrong, that is why shia scholars today overruled such practice. I restate what they wrote:

in 2007 some of the Shia ulema have responded by declared suicide bombing haram:

"حتي كساني كه با انتحار مي‌‏آيند و مي‌‏زنند عده‌‏اي را مي‌‏كشند، آن هم به عنوان عمليات انتحاري، اينها در قعر جهنم هستند"
"Even those who kill people with suicide bombing, these shall meet the flames of hell."[83]

there was no comparison in my words between Imam Khomeini and Almighty Allah (astaghfirullah).what i presented was an analogy between two silly comparisons that blind people are capable of making.

i have explained to you again that suicide bombing or even stone throwing aimed at civilians is forbidden and that is the reason why the scholars forbade it.when suicide bombing however ugly it is is used as a last resort as is the case with hopeless palestinians who are overpowered and outnumbered,then it is no longer "suicide bombing".the right term is "matrydom operation" as it is refered to in arabic.those weak people would be killed anyways.so in order to fight back their enemies,they die all the same but also inflict pain on the enemy.


Pathetic Hiss, it seem you were reading with your eyes closed, cause i just showed you an instance of Hezbollah killing civillians it seem Human life has no value to you, In Islam I understand you are not suppose to even destroy vegetation of your enemies or even kill animals during war, They are rules of war, but I know you shia claim to be wiser, did you say suicide bombing is not a sin despite ALLAH rejection of suicide? yet to you killing citizens of other country is a joke, you lack the deep reflection to know that, Hezbollah tomorrow can claim the sunnis in their country are traitors and attack them, in 2007 Hezbollah militants fought with their sunni counter - part and in the process both sides ended up killing civillians, now may be you do not watch cable news or you are simply unaware of this happenings, For any sane individual to claim that Shia militant groups have not targeted civilians during conflict is very troubling undecided and very much a displeasing lie. angry Now your concern has shifted from Market to fellow citizens,atleast we are making progress, may be you might shift ftom fellow citizens to fellow conutryman grin Have you heard of the word Civil war before? In a civil war you are either on one side or the other, trying to use dubious argument to defend suicide bomber that is so long as it is not use against your fellow citizens, again I asked have you heard of Civil war? Suicide bombing is used to fight enemies, even in Iraq Alqaeda used it against fellow Sunnis they looked upon as traitors, but i guess that eloped your ears. Again Sir, how does an explosion distinguish between an enemy and a fellow citizen?

i have told you that in shia islam there is no authority that legitimizes attacking civlians or using "suicide bombings" to do that.

i have also denied and i still maintain that there was no time hezbollah used "suicide bombing" to target civilians or their fellow lebanese.give me one instance where hezbollah did.you cant.you gave me an instance where the american marines base was attacked in beirut.there were american civilians there.to justify your point you said civilians could have being in or around the base.are you for real?

the fighting between hezbollah and the future movement a sunni-led party secular party was not between civilians.the future movement had trained a militia in neighboring countries to fight hezbollah.both sides clashed on the streets of beirut and hezbollah finally triumphed.civilians do not carry machine guns and engage in exchange of fire and still be called civilians.

I laugh grin, imagine Hezbollah warning the Americans that they were going to bomb their embassy and civillians should keep off. Again Imagine red cross going to war torn places in Nigeria or else where to help the injured and displaced, so according to oga Karbala since they were warned to keep off, they are Halal target shocked . please i believe you can think better than that. cool

it is the duty of those in charge of any military base to warn civilians to keep off.when the american base was attacked in beirut,the aim was never to kill civilians and nothing makes that halal.but you dont use a mishap to judge people.


It must have really hurt you badly grin , I only yopu did not cry , if I may asked what did you understand by the phrase Karbala Spirit is intoxicating you? the deeply entrenched Hypocrisy you have been showing through out this thread is enough reason for us to to label you the chief of Munaffiqun, and I repeat the spirit of Karbala is Intoxicating you three times over, ALLAH reads my mind more than you Karbala antics for me to be swayed by your violent Hypocrisy, I am not going to indulge you at all in explaining what is meant by it, let you thoughts cause you more trauma tongue, cool This same individual that had the effrontery to compare ALLAh sending Prophets to the world with a a mere mortal who made suicide Bombing halal when ALLAH rejected suicide as a grave sin, yet you write gibberish after gibberish parading yourself as a Bahrain, I even doubt whether you might ever smell the air of Bahrain as even the shia will run away from you for your evil love for violence against anything contra. grin

you will face your punishment with Allah.may you be deprived of the "shafa-ah" of Muhammad and the Household of Muhammad.ameen!

you have again concluded another lie.


Hypocrite! you could not bring yourself to answer the question? Ignoramus of Hypocritical proportions. If I may ask would you ever participate in suicide bombing if perharps, Ayatollah Khaminaei orders you to, I even heard that nasrallah - I have nothing against him, he is one of the most Charismatic Muslim figures in the world - was alledged to have stated that he is willing to divorce his wfe if the Ayatollah Khaminaei orders him to, because I am begining to doubt you Shianess grin.
i do not follow Ayatollah Khamanei as my marje-taqlid.i do respect and admire him alot.each shia follows a grand scholar of jurisprudence.if the scholar for instance deem something forbidden he must have reasons.Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah and the hezbollah people follow Ayatollah Khamanei.

i can see you are now screaming with name calling.its not a shame to learn.its never too late.


Please Humbly accept this title ' Master in the ART of BLIND ARGUMENT'. mR. kARBALA. you truly deserve it and have worked hard for it.
ok thanks.


so, Layman, do you knowwho was trying to perpetuating this dastardly acts?

it was no other than the wahhabis who were fuelling civil and sectarian war in iraq under the blessing of their masters in the west.


But Shia militants still attacked. Keep living in utter delusions.

you dont call those "shia militants" firstly.i am aware of the incident of the attack against Talha Ibn Zubair mosque in basra.but who really knows who was responsible?at least you should give credit to our grand scholars of jurisprudence who always rush to quench the sectarian fire.i wish sunni scholars would do likewise.when there was anger over the bombings in samarra,Ayatollah Sistani forbade any shia from attacking sunnis or their places of worhship.how many times have shias being attacked?do we hear a like call of wisdom?

Spot on, especially when you are arguing with a Hypocritical Shia with Fanatical Tendencies, who compares things that do not have the same value.

people are not blind.they will decide for themselves.using foul language and throwing blind accusations does not make your case stronger.


it ra=target both civillians and military. Why the lies?

suit yourself.if the example of Ayatollah Sistani's fatwa is not enough to convince then you're simply trying to inflame sectarian feelings when in the first place you do not even know or represent anything sunni.you're just a blind man who follows what he is told or was born into.and what is really moving you is the hate for anything shia because you've being spoonfed.


I taught according to you all sunni scholars were Ignorant? I showed you that Your shia scholars forbade Suicide Bombings but your fanatiscm has not let you explain why? instead he turns to sunnis for solace Again we have to ask why u insult reason and common sense?

those words were not meant to convince me but to shut-you up from spreading more lies and making what you call "suicide bombing" even when legitimate look like a shia product that sunnis are not aware of.palestinians (sunnis) have used that the most.


Can an explosion differentiate between a fellow citizen and an enemy?. The bolded part of statement again shows how utterly Ignorant you are, suicide Bombings is attacking not defending, even when I have showed how this suicide Bombing can result to dangerous results. And in all the case it has been used, it was never the last resort, it was more of the first line of attack. but I guess you have fallen in love with suicide bombings, that no amount of civilians it kills in the process can disuade you of how foolish the tactic is, it even depletes the number of fighters you have. Clearly it is an unwise tactics in the long run, unless, speaking hypothetically of cause, an entire country decides it is ready to use everything it got.


when israeli and american planes fly the skies of muslim countries killing not only those "terrorists" or combatants,they also kill muslim civilians and later they issue statements of "regret" which even always fall short of apology.i have told you suicide was never used by shia groups especially hezbollah or even by palestinian sunnis who have excellent ties with iran to target civilians who are innocent.they only target legitimate and military targets.for the weak palestinians it becomes their first line of defence since they have no alternative.are you saying because of the possibility which is a circumstance beyond control of civilians accidentally being hurt,people should not defend themselves against oppresion?

telling us that civilians maybe hurt,when the enemy attack they too do not consider that they should not attack because our civilians would be hurt.therefore attacking back in defence is justified by the Quran itself :

"SO  WHOEVER HAS ASSAULTED YOU,THEN ASSAULT HIM IN THE SAME WAY THAT HE HAS ASSAULTED YOU.AND FEAR ALLAH AND KNOW THAT ALLAH IS WITH THOSE WHO FEAR HIM".(Holy Quran 2:194)

i hope you will use your head and not come here and tell us that the Quran is saying we can kill civlians as the ignorant ones do.the simple fact is that you have all right to attack back in defence those who attack you.the enemies do attack you even with the aim of killing your civilians but muslims should not do that.muslims should only attack combatants.the risk of civilians dying should not dissuade one from defending himself however unfortunate that may be.
Re: Shia Justice And The Sunni Predicament On The Popular Middle East Revolutions by LagosShia: 5:13pm On Mar 26, 2011
Heavy security quells Bahraini protests 

One man dies from suffocation as security forces in Bahrain use tear gas to keep a lid on anti-government protests.

Last Modified: 25 Mar 2011 18:03

Police have broken up small scattered protests in Manama, Bahrain's capital, using tear gas after calls for a "Day of Rage" were quashed by a heavy security force presence.

Helicopters, extra checkpoints on major highways and visible security forces appeared to have prevented any major demonstrations from gathering support.

A 71-year-old man died of asphyxiation in his home after police fired tear gas in the village of Mameer, the main Shia protest group said.

Al Jazeera's correspondent in Manama said: "As far as we can see there are clouds of tear gas that have been rising in recent minutes.

"People will march down the streets and a helicopter will appear, the police will move in, and people move indoors.

"Quite a tense situation here, but the call for the big protests ,  seems to have been quashed by the authorities here.

"Some protesters tried to mess with the statue and at that point the police opened fire."

At least 20 people have been killed, including two policemen, during a month of demonstrations against the Sunni-led government.

In Maameer, Wefaq, the country's leading Shia opposition group, said 71-year-old Isa Abdullah had died of suffocation as tear gas fumes leaked into his house.

"His village Mameer was attacked heavily by tear gas," said Mattar Ibrahim Mattar, the Wefaq leader. "His family called the emergency room but there was no response from Salmaniya hospital."

A statement from Wefaq said Mameer had been blockaded by police forces and a lack of hospital assistance made it impossible to revive Abdullah.

It said there was no indication he had been involved in the protests.

Wefaq, which draws tens of thousands when it calls protests, had distanced itself from Friday's of "Day of Rage".

"Wefaq affirms the need to protect safety and lives and not to give the killers the opportunity to shed blood," it said.

Martial law

Confronted by mass protests demanding constitutional reform, Bahrain's ruling Al Khalifa family, from the minority Sunni population, has declared security their priority, calling in troops from neighbouring Sunni-led Gulf states and imposing martial law.

A few hundred protesters managed a short rally in the Shia village of Diraz on Friday, shouting "down with the regime" as women swathed in black waved Bahraini flags and held up copies of the Quran.

But they fled when about 100 riot police fired tear gas and tried to chase them down.

In the village of al-Dair, police fired rounds of tear gas to disperse about 100 protesters who had marched toward a main road next to a runway at Bahrain International Airport.

Residents in nearby streets rushed women and children into their house as police continued to use tear gas.

The residents said police had also fired birdshot ammunition at protesters.

"After so many deaths, so many sacrifices, we will continue to protest. We just want a new constitution but they're not prepared for democracy," one resident said anonymously.

Al Jazeera's correspondent in Manama said: "There was a big police presence this morning that moved in and around these [Shia] villages, stopping people from going to prayers.

"It seems in the last hour or so those protests have actually begun, and police have started moving into these villages."

'Foreign agenda'

More than 60 per cent of Bahrainis are Shias and most are demanding a constitutional monarchy.

But calls by hardliners for the overthrow of the monarchy have alarmed Sunnis, who fear the unrest helps Iran, a mainly Shia country, on the other side of the Gulf.

In signs of rising tensions in the oil-producing region, Bahrain's government has responded sharply to any signs of what it considers to be interference over its crackdown.

Last week, Bahrain expelled diplomats from Iran after Tehran criticised the last week's clampdown on protesters.

The foreign minister of Bahrain has formally complained to the Lebanese government over expressions of support from Hezbollah, a Shia movement.

Bahrain's social development minister accused demonstrators on Friday of harbouring a "foreign agenda", but stopped short of blaming Iran.

"We found out that those people who were doing it were instigated by a foreign country and by Hezbollah," Fatima al Beloushi told a news conference in Geneva.

"We have direct proof. Hezbollah has provided training for their people. They were serving a foreign agenda and that is why it was not something for having a better livelihood."

Bahrain has great strategic importance because it hosts the US Fifth Fleet, facing Iran across the Gulf and situated off-shore from Saudi Arabia, the world's top oil exporter.

[url]http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/201132517640695546.html]Al-Jazeera English[/url]

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (Reply)

Is Smoking Cigarettes Haraam? / Suicide Attacks Are Incompatible With Islam / What You Are Required To Do In Ramadan

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 412
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.