Now, how do you put together all these statements? Is there a contradiction here? No, there is no contradiction here. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the figure of speech known as "hendiadys." Not sure that they teach it in schools any longer or perhaps ever taught it in English speaking schools. It's Greek for "One through two." That is when you say one thing, but you use two expressions to convey the whole.

And the language of repentance and faith in the New Testament is essentially a hendiadys. That, the same reality of coming to Christ is being viewed from two different perspectives. One, in relationship to the sinful life, the other in relationship to the Lord Jesus Christ. So that sometimes, one of the terms will stand for both terms. "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you'll be saved," means as you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ you will turn away from sin.

You cannot go to Jesus Christ without leaving where you have been, or repent in response to the gospel. What does it mean to repent in response to the gospel? Well, he's talking about that coming to Jesus Christ in faith, but from the perspective of, "Therefore leaving behind the old lifestyle in which you once lived," or "Repent and believe the gospel." Exactly the same thing.

In other words, repentance and faith are not joined together like two links in a chain so that we're left asking the question, "Well, is the first link repentance and then faith, or is the first link faith and then repentance?" No, repentance and faith are not abstract phenomena that exist out there.

They (repentance and faith) are simply ways of describing what happens when we are united to Jesus Christ and trust Him.

-Sinclair Ferguson

Reexplain using pidgin mbok.

chatinent:
Reexplain using pidgin mbok.

Faith be like person wey believe wetin teacher talk for class; repentance be like person wey wetin teacher talk provoke am so tey him go library go read wetin teacher talk.

If you look am well well, him don go library for him mind as he dey class. So you see say Faith and repentance happen for that student mind at the same time.

Repentance first and then faith, without repentance there cannot be faith.

Repentance means a change of heart towards God and his word, for example you dont take God and his word serious but when you repent your mindset changes you begin to take God and his word serious, when you take God's word serious then you actually hear the gospel intimately and then you believe it then salvation.
Change of life comes after salvation, it is wrong for preachers to preach change for life as a requirement to be saved.

What people need is repentance towards God and then faith in Jesus christ and then sanctification commences by God of course but through constant teaching and spiritual upbringing, telling sinners to change their life will only create hypocrites and religionists, the change in a born again comes by the working of the holy spirit in that person through constant hearing of the word only after they are saved.

Faith. Because without faith you cannot repent genuinely

Acehart:


Faith be like person wey believe wetin teacher talk for class; repentance be like person wey wetin teacher talk provoke am so tey him go library go read wetin teacher talk.

If you look am well well, him don go library for him mind as he dey class. So you see say Faith and repentance happen for that student mind at the same time.

Na better yarn be this.

Acehart:

You cannot go to Jesus Christ without leaving where you have been, or repent in response to the gospel. What does it mean to repent in response to the gospel? Well, he's talking about that coming to Jesus Christ in faith, but from the perspective of, "Therefore leaving behind the old lifestyle in which you once lived," or "Repent and believe the gospel." Exactly the same thing.

This is a good summary of the tension between true repentance and faith/believe in Christ ,in my opinion.

Great write up boss.

jamesid29:

This is a good summary of the tension between true repentance and faith/believe in Christ ,in my opinion.

Great write up boss.

Thank you, sir.

livingchrist:
Repentance first and then faith, without repentance there cannot be faith.

<sup>Repentance means a change of heart towards God and his word, for example you dont take God and his word serious but when you repent your mindset changes you begin to take God and his word serious, when you take God's word serious then you actually hear the gospel intimately and then you believe it then salvation.
Change of life comes after salvation, it is wrong for preachers to preach change for life as a requirement to be saved.

What people need is repentance towards God and then faith in Jesus christ and then sanctification commences by God of course but through constant teaching and spiritual upbringing, telling sinners to change their life will only create hypocrites and religionists, the change in a born again comes by the working of the holy spirit in that person through constant hearing of the word only after they are saved.</sup>

Do you repent before you get to the Cross of Calvary or you repent after you have been to the Cross of Calvary? Let me make it easier: did the adulterous woman repent before she met Jesus or after she met Jesus?

Acehart:


Do you repent before you get to the Cross of Calvary or you repent after you have been to the Cross of Calvary? Let me make it easier: did the adulterous woman repent before she met Jesus or after she met Jesus?

I am not talking of when she met Jesus, but when she believed, John had to come with the gospel of repentance before Jesus? Is it not to prepare the heart of the people so that they can recieve christ?
Anyone who has believed in Christ has already repented,
Without repentance there cannot be faith,

Luke 1:17
And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.



Acts 19:4
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Acts 20:21
Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

livingchrist:
I am not talking of when she met Jesus, but when she believed, John had to come with the gospel of repentance before Jesus? Is it not to prepare the heart of the people so that they can recieve christ?
Anyone who has believed in Christ has already repented,
Without repentance there cannot be faith,
Acts 19:4
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Acts 20:21
Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

You didn’t answer my questions.

Acehart:


You didn’t answer my questions.

she met christ does not mean she believed, when you come to the cross of calvary, you will not believe until you repent, do you realise that repentance means a change of heart? How can you believe without a change of heart?
In the bible repentance always come before faith.

livingchrist:
she met christ does not mean she believed, when you come to the cross of calvary, you will not believe until you repent, do you realise that repentance means a change of heart? How can you believe without a change of heart?
In the bible repentance always come before faith.

That means you preach a doctrine of works. You say: my works will drive me to faith.

Acehart:


That means you preach a doctrine of works. You say: my works will drive me to faith.

that is because you have a wrong definition of repentance

livingchrist:
that is because you have a wrong definition of repentance

What is your definition of repentance?

Acehart:


What is your definition of repentance?

the greek word for repentance is metanoia which literally mean a change of mind.

Repentance is a change of minding/thinking or a change of heart which can lead to a change of actions.

FAITH comes first!


People needs to hear heart touching words {Romans 10:14} they are moved to believe in a God that detests some habits {Act 17:23} they ask questions to be sure that the God in question is the real Creator. Act 17:11

It's after they're fully convinced that they now feel touched to turn around in order to conform their ways to what they were convinced to believe. Hebrew 4:12

So it's the faith that is implanted in the heart of a listener that leads to repentance! Act 2:37-38
God bless you!

livingchrist:
the greek word for repentance is metanoia which literally mean a change of mind.

Repentance is a change of minding/thinking or a change of heart which can lead to a change of actions.

I like your definition. I’d like to ask: what causes a change of mind, as nothing happens without a cause?

MaxInDHouse:
FAITH comes first!


People needs to hear heart touching words {Romans 10:14} they are moved to believe in a God that detests some habits {Act 17:23} they ask questions to be sure that the God in question is the real Creator. Act 17:11

It's after they're fully convinced that they now feel touched to turn around in order to conform their ways to what they were convinced to believe. Hebrew 4:12

So it's the faith that is implanted in the heart of a listener that leads to repentance! Act 2:37-38
God bless you!

Very good response. Thank you.

You're welcome Sir!

Acehart:


Very good response. Thank you.

Acehart:


Faith be like person wey believe wetin teacher talk for class; repentance be like person wey wetin teacher talk provoke am so tey him go library go read wetin teacher talk.

If you look am well well, him don go library for him mind as he dey class. So you see say Faith and repentance happen for that student mind at the same time.

Na here d tory no complete becos d student MUST BELIEVE d teacher becos wetin teacher teach make sense to d student and dey always dey make sense to student.

Meanwhile, e depend on d student, for d student wey dey lazy for soul and e no like to think or dey know anything, E MUST BELIEVE WETIN TEACHER TALK! because e lazy mind must say "after all teacher know everything and na teacher still teach am dat thing wey dey correct last week, so did one must correct"

But for the student wey know say e Know many things, if d teacher make mistake, E MUST PEPPER TEACHER WITH QUESTION!

And this is were The True "Faith" in the Bible is, for if and When The Teacher Answers All His Questions, (preferably reasonable ones), like the ones LortReed, kingxamz, DeusXmachina and others may ask, Then There Is No More Doubt! (For where there are questions, Doubt Must Exist).

Thus, No Doubt Because No Question Or Issue Remains To Be Answered or Settled, For All Is Settled!

And where there is No Doubt or Question and All is Settled, then, There is True, Sure, Pure, Confidence not Fake, Self-Induced confidence.

This is what Faith means in the Bible for after Faith, You Begin to Live which is Be-Live for short, on the knowledge you have now acquired!

This is the transition of Faith to Begin to Live (Be-Live)!

Acehart:


What is your definition of repentance?

On Repentance!
From the age of 7 years, every soul knows that which is "Good" from that which is "not good" and they do whichever pleased them.

Repentance is when a soul Agrees that, that which it does, should No Longer Be Done. And then, the Repenter, Sets himself, To- Not-DO, That, which he has said, he shall No Longer Do.

eg Tamaratonye, LortReed CAPSLOCK and others have set themselves to hate God, being former, what the world calls "christians". They are said to have Repented.

MaxInDHouse:
You're welcome Sir!

But you aren’t 100% correct o. The gospel causes a reflection on one’s ways firstly, and based on the faith (trust) on what the gospel offered, the person responds to the gospel - repentance. If I am right, I’d like to proceed.

There is a tension between faith and repentance based on the direction one looks at them. For you, you looked from behind. For livingchrist, he is looking from the front. Though the word comes first, faith doesn’t follow immediately; a consideration to repent comes next -remember when Agrippa said to Paul: "Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?". So for those who contend that repentance comes next, No! conviction comes next, and conviction can be crushed (Rom 1:18-19). But when conviction survives, it leads to faith (trusting in Christ); it also leads to repentance (or a desire to repent) at the same time because contemplation (conviction) survived and meets with faith.

Dtruthspeaker:


On Repentance!
From the age of 7 years, every soul knows that which is "Good" from that which is "not good" and they do whichever pleased them.

Repentance is when a soul Agrees that, that which it does, should No Longer Be Done. And then, the Repenter, Sets himself, To- Not-DO, That, which he has said, he shall No Longer Do.


eg Tamaratonye, LortReed CAPSLOCK and others have set themselves to hate God, being former, what the world calls "christians". They are said to have Repented.

Does a child with cerebral palsy or autism or Down syndrome know what is good at the age of 7?

Acehart:


I like your definition. I’d like to ask: what causes a change of mind, as nothing happens without a cause?

yes faith causes repentance but when it comes to faith in Jesus it certainly is preceded by repentance.
Look at what Jesus said for example,

John 5:46
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

You see, if the jews had believed moses (faith) it would have lead to a change of heart (repentance) to believe christ.

You are right to say that faith lead to repentance and also those who say repentance lead to faith are also right, it depends on the context used.

livingchrist:
yes faith causes repentance but when it comes to faith in Jesus it certainly is preceded by repentance.
Look at what Jesus said for example,

John 5:46
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

You see, if the jews had believed moses (faith) it would have lead to a change of heart (repentance) to believe christ.

You are right to say that faith lead to repentance and also those who say repentance lead to faith are also right, it depends on the context used.

Please read my response to MaxinHouse. You two are right based on your perspective, howbeit different perspective. Yet, the two experiences occur at the same time, holding hands side-by-side.

Agrippa already believe (faith) in the laws and prophets of God {Act 26:27} that's why he could say "if i should continue digesting what Paul is saying about Jesus, i may become one of Jesus' followers" Act 26:28

Agrippa (a Jewish King) has the faith in the inspired writings of God before meeting Paul and that is (FAITH) but what was lacking is the understanding of who the Christ is, if he should continue to listen to Paul's explanation he could become convinced that Jesus (whom the Jews killed) was the promised Christ, that's what the Jews at Pentecost heard before they repented! Act 2:36-37

So Faith comes first before conviction to beg for forgiveness, and you can wholeheartedly beg for forgiveness when you repent!

Acehart:


But you aren’t 100% correct o. The gospel causes a reflection on one’s ways firstly, and based on the faith (trust) on what the gospel offered, the person responds to the gospel - repentance. If I am right, I’d like to proceed.

There is a tension between faith and repentance based on the direction one looks at them. For you, you looked from behind. For livingchrist, he is looking from the front. Though the word comes first, faith doesn’t follow immediately; a consideration to repent comes next -remember when Agrippa said to Paul: "Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?". So for those who contend that repentance comes next, No! conviction comes next, and conviction can be crushed (Rom 1:18-19). But when conviction survives, it leads to faith (trusting in Christ); it also leads to repentance (or a desire to repent) at the same time because contemplation (conviction) survived and meets with faith.

Acehart:


Does a child with cerebral palsy or autism or Down syndrome know what is good at the age of 7?

You had to ask a stupid question? Really

You could have gone the whole mile and as well asked if a 32 year old lunatic is also accounted for in my statement? Shame on you!

Dtruthspeaker:


You had to ask a stupid question? Really

You could have gone the whole mile and as well asked if a 32 year old lunatic is also accounted for in my statement? Shame on you!

I don't know who would have read your comment on the age of accountability being seven years old and wouldn't think you are the 32 years old lunatic.

CC: LordReed

Acehart:


I don't know who would have read your comment on the age of accountability being seven years old and wouldn't think you are the 32 years old lunatic.

CC: LordReed

Acehart:


I don't know who would have read your comment on the age of accountability being seven years old and wouldn't think you are the 32 years old lunatic.

CC: LordReed

Wow! You have now become a LortReedian?
God's Word is Sure!

That aside, are you not a lawyer again that you do not know that it is your law, contained in your law books that a Child below 7years is not Criminally Responsible?

Shame be on you!

Dtruthspeaker:


LortReedian

Is that a new tribe in your fantasy tale? LMFAO!