Hmm, Nairalanders Good evening.
As some of us know one of the attributes of the Abrahamic Gods is been Omnipotent(All-Powerful, All-Knowing).
Taking the christian holy book for point of reference. There are some scriptural part that says: Before you are born I know you.. It is even claimed that God knows what anybody will become.
Okay(nodding my head)
So you knew that Osama bin Laden will be a terrorist and you still created him. Then later You will judge him as a sinner.
Why create him in the first place since you know he gonna be a terrorist? Do you see the obvious contradiction.
You are all knowing, you should have know that Satan is going to betray you. Why then create him ?
Open for reasonable argument.

johnhood:
Hmm, Nairalanders Good evening.
As some of us know one of the attributes of the Abrahamic Gods is been Omnipotent(All-Powerful, All-Knowing).

Omnipotent - All-Powerful/Almighty meaning All Power belongs to Him and is controlled by Him alone
Omniscience - All-Knowing

johnhood:
Taking the christian holy book for point of reference. There are some scriptural part that says: Before you are born I know you.. It is even claimed that God knows what anybody will become.
Okay(nodding my head)

The Bible is a compilation of books, many of them written prior to the coming of Jesus Christ, the author and finisher of the Christian faith. And yes, the verse you refer to was written before the advent of the Christian faith.

johnhood:
So you knew that Osama bin Laden will be a terrorist and you still created him. Then later You will judge him as a sinner.
Why create him in the first place since you know he gonna be a terrorist? Do you see the obvious contradiction.

Where do you get the idea that God will later judge Osama as a sinner?
Where did God suggest to you, that His plan from the beginning has always been to nurture a world filled with only "good" people? These contradictions you claim exist in your mind, don't you think?

johnhood:
You are all knowing, you should have know that Satan is going to betray you. Why then create him ?
Open for reasonable argument.

First thing first... I suggest you learn the truth about the character Satan, as depicted in the Bible, so you can separate fact from fiction. Next, I suggest you take time to properly study what is in fact written in the Bible of God so you can separate His ideas from those you have in your mind of Him.

Kobojunkiee:

Omnipotent - All-Powerful/Almighty meaning All Power belongs to Him and is controlled by Him alone
Omniscience - All-Knowing
The Bible is a compilation of books, many of them written prior to the coming of Jesus Christ, the author and finisher of the Christian faith. And yes, the verse you refer to was written before the advent of the Christian faith.
Where do you get the idea that God will later judge Osama as a sinner?
Where did God suggest to you, that His plan from the beginning has always been to nurture a world filled with only "good" people? These contradictions you claim exist in your mind, don't you think?
First thing first... I suggest you learn the truth about the character Satan, as depicted in the Bible, so you can separate fact from fiction. Next, I suggest you take time to properly study what is in fact written in the Bible of God so you can separate His ideas from those you have in your mind of Him.

Books written before the advent of Christ. So does that make the book obsolete?If so the whole of the Old testament should be done with it and Christians should use of the New Testament just like the Jews make use of only the Old Testament of the Bible.
Know more about Satan?
Tell me something I don't know.

About Osama bin Laden.
According to the bible with its ten commandment men like Osama bin Laden is going to hell.
That is the old testament you will say.
The new testament teaches that anybody who doesn't accept Jesus as his/her Lord and personal saviour can not enter heaven. Last time I checked Osama bin Laden didn't pass those yardsticks. Unless he did after his death which is after impossible.

johnhood:
Books written before the advent of Christ. So does that make the book obsolete?If so the whole of the Old testament should be done with it and Christians should use of the New Testament just like the Jews make use of only the Old Testament of the Bible.

You called the book the "Christian holy Book", and my response was meant to cause you to think harder about that claim.

johnhood:
Know more about Satan?
Tell me something I don't know.

Why not do some studying to learn facts from fiction for your own self there instead?

johnhood:
About Osama bin Laden.
According to the bible with its ten commandment men like Osama bin Laden is going to hell.
That is the old testament you will say.

That is not what the Old Testament says at all!

johnhood:
The new testament teaches that anybody who doesn't accept Jesus as his/her Lord and personal saviour can not enter heaven. Last time I checked Osama bin Laden didn't pass those yardsticks. Unless he did after his death which is after impossible.

The new testament teaches that the Christian idea of Heaven and Hell is only for those who believe in Jesus Christ. So, where do you get the idea that an unbeliever will be judged as a sinner in the New Testament?

Kobojunkiee:
You called the book the "Christian holy Book", and my response was meant to cause you to think harder about that claim.
Why not do some studying to learn facts from fiction for your own self there instead?
That is not what the Old Testament says at all!
The new testament teaches that the Christian idea of Heaven and Hell is only for those who believe in Jesus Christ. So, where do you get the idea that an unbeliever will be judged as a sinner in the New Testament?

Please what does the old testament say.
The last time I check the NT if you don't believe in Jesus you are doomed. That is what each of the Abrahimic faith teaches. If you don't believe in their sect you are doomed. Only their is the truth and life. Or am I lying?
Research about Satan?
Bro you that have done the research tell me what you found. Or you too haven't researched?

johnhood:
Please what does the old testament say.

You have to do the research yourself in order to learn fact from fiction.

johnhood:
The last time I check the NT if you don't believe in Jesus you are doomed. That is what each of the Abrahimic faith teaches. If you don't believe in their sect you are doomed. Only their is the truth and life. Or am I lying?

Yes, you are lying! The Abrahamic faiths did not come in anyway to change was already was from the beginning, simply to create an alternative path for those who will choose them. You need to do some honest studying of your own to learn fact from myth

johnhood:
Research about Satan?
Bro you that have done the research tell me what you found. Or you too haven't researched?

The best way to rid yourself of the untruths is to confront them with the facts... and to do that, you will need to do your own research to find out what exactly the bible does say about the character called Satan. He is different from what popular culture depicts in every way and form, you will find.

Kobojunkiee:
You have to do the research yourself in order to learn fact from fiction.
Yes, you are lying! The Abrahamic faiths did not come in anyway to change was already was from the beginning, simply to create an alternative path for those who will choose them. You need to do some honest studying of your own to learn fact from myth
The best way to rid yourself of the untruths is to confront them with the facts... and to do that, you will need to do your own research to find out what exactly the bible does say about the character called Satan. He is different from what popular culture depicts in every way and form, you will find.

Guy it seems you are in Kindergaten when it comes to religion.
You as a christian are you not taught Jesus the only way? Christian believe they serving the true God so any other God is the creation of devil. They are the anti christ. Moslems see other people from different fate as infidels. I doubt if you know what I mean by Abrahamic faith. It is the Christians, Muslims and the Jews.
So where am I lying?

Go and do research own your own.
This show you don't even know what you are talking. You are just hearing from others.

Lol, save yourself the stress.
The Bible is just a Disney book of fairytales, with a "happily ever after" ending.

johnhood:
Guy it seems you are in Kindergaten when it comes to religion.
You as a christian are you not taught Jesus the only way? Christian believe they serving the true God so any other God is the creation of devil. They are the anti christ.
Moslems see other people from different fate as infidels. I doubt if you know what I mean by Abrahamic faith. It is the Christians, Muslims and the Jews. So where am I lying?

Your lack of knowledge makes this whole boring.
Before Jesus Christ showed up on the map, unbelievers were already doomed. What Jesus Christ came to offer is a way, the Only Way to God.Christians believe in Jesus Christ, and according to Jesus Christ, He is the only way into the Kingdom of Heaven/Hell as defined by Him, and to reach God Himself. Those who do not believe in Jesus Christ do not need to worry about the Kingdom of Heaven and of Hell as taught by Him.

Muslims define their own Heaven and Hell, and they also believe the only way to reach their own God is through Mohammed their prophet.

Israelites believe that only those who are descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are promised a place in the Land of Canaan, the land promised them from the time of their ancestors, right here on earth.

The three beliefs you claim to know of have very different ideas of what it means to belong to God, the afterlife, and even the path... so how do you not see how very different they all are?
Note that each belief holds and promises, different things, hence the reason why what you claim is a lie?

johnhood:
Go and do research own your own.
This show you don't even know what you are talking. You are just hearing from others.

Go back and study the individual beliefs, rather than thinking you can lop them all together without revealing your ignorance.

kingxsamz:
Lol, save yourself the stress.
The Bible is just a Disney book of fairytales, with a "happily ever after" ending.

But you have sleepless months talking about, arguing against and worrying after just a Disney book of fairy tales. Are you normal at all because normal people don't do that. Hell fire is not a happily ever after for sinners who die in sin.

johnhood:

Guy it seems you are in Kindergaten when it comes to religion.

i am not supposed to laugh but this was very funny.

johnhood:
Hmm, Nairalanders Good evening.
As some of us know one of the attributes of the Abrahamic Gods is been Omnipotent(All-Powerful, All-Knowing).
Taking the christian holy book for point of reference. There are some scriptural part that says: Before you are born I know you.. It is even claimed that God knows what anybody will become.
Okay(nodding my head)
So you knew that Osama bin Laden will be a terrorist and you still created him. Then later You will judge him as a sinner.
Why create him in the first place since you know he gonna be a terrorist? Do you see the obvious contradiction.
You are all knowing, you should have know that Satan is going to betray you. Why then create him ?
Open for reasonable argument.

The concept of omniscience that you refer to deals more about knowledge not being secret or hidden, than knowledge of everything in the sense you see it.
Freewill tends to change the scope of knowledge of everything. Man is given freewill which means he can change things and redirect his trajectory and that of others. The simple illustration i tend to use is that of a pregnant woman. The learned doctor and laboratory machines can see, know and understand many things about the baby even more than the owner/parents and the fetus. To an extent, their scan and tell certain things about the child and even tell about the past and the date, state and size to be delivered. That's some knowledge and very reliable in many cases. While the doctor and machine knows all these, remember they didn't really cause it.
The second part is there are things that can change that normal and natural trajectory. The baby may still not be born or not be born in the state it was following. Some factors especially from the pregnant mother's decisions changed.
It's a microcosm of knowledge of the future. You have the God given potential to be the best in a good field but you can choose to carelessly change that and blow up your life in womanizing, drinking, gambling, all sort of indiscipline and even suicide. It can also be the other way around. Your lifestyle might give you off as a person with no reasonable future, but you can decide to do different. You change your trajectory. Like Nineveh, like Saul.

The bolded in red was misconstrued by most religionists!

God knew doesn't mean he focused on all fetus that is conceived in the womb of all the women in the world, note how he treated the Israelites as his special possession, so based on his plans to bring out a saviour from that lineage God focused on the linage of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Judah that's the lineage through which the Christ will be born! Matthew 1:2
Satan started controlling the Earth's inhabitants right after the rebellion in the garden of Eden, so God wanted to protect the lineage through which the Christ (Messiah or Saviour) will be born, but as for all other nations it's whoever decides to come closer to God's plan whether for good motives or bad intention that God will focus not just everyone, to God all Adam's descendants are like wasted products until Jesus comes to establish pure worship. Then whoever takes interest in pure worship will also become a member of God's earthly family! John 3:16

johnhood:
Hmm, Nairalanders Good evening.
As some of us know one of the attributes of the Abrahamic Gods is been Omnipotent(All-Powerful, All-Knowing).
Taking the christian holy book for point of reference. There are some scriptural part that says: Before you are born I know you. It is even claimed that God knows what anybody will become.
Okay(nodding my head)
So you knew that Osama bin Laden will be a terrorist and you still created him. Then later You will judge him as a sinner.
Why create him in the first place since you know he gonna be a terrorist? Do you see the obvious contradiction.
You are all knowing, you should have know that Satan is going to betray you. Why then create him ?
Open for reasonable argument.

Lol, save yourself the stress.The Bible is just a Disney book of fairytales, with a "happily ever after" ending.

Your PERSONAL opinion is noted, thanks Sir!

chuk65276:
Lol, save yourself the stress.The Bible is just a Disney book of fairytales, with a "happily ever after" ending.

Kobojunkiee:
Your lack of knowledge makes this whole boring.
Before Jesus Christ showed up on the map, unbelievers were already doomed. What Jesus Christ came to offer is a way, the Only Way to God.Christians believe in Jesus Christ, and according to Jesus Christ, He is the only way into the Kingdom of Heaven/Hell as defined by Him, and to reach God Himself. Those who do not believe in Jesus Christ do not need to worry about the Kingdom of Heaven and of Hell as taught by Him.

Muslims define their own Heaven and Hell, and they also believe the only way to reach their own God is through Mohammed their prophet.

Israelites believe that only those who are descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are promised a place in the Land of Canaan, the land promised them from the time of their ancestors, right here on earth.

The three beliefs you claim to know of have very different ideas of what it means to belong to God, the afterlife, and even the path... so how do you not see how very different they all are?
Note that each belief holds and promises, different things, hence the reason why what you claim is a lie?
Go back and study the individual beliefs, rather than thinking you can lop them all together without revealing your ignorance.

The absurdity of these is that you keep missing the point.
To you as a Christian are you not taught that people who don't believe in Christ is going to hell??
Don't Muslims believe that all non believers will not make heaven?
The Jews on their own don't believe the Messiah has come. They are still waiting.
Everybody claim my own believe is the best.
Don't Christians believe Muslims are worshipping Satan?

Image123:


The concept of omniscience that you refer to deals more about knowledge not being secret or hidden, than knowledge of everything in the sense you see it.
Freewill tends to change the scope of knowledge of everything. Man is given freewill which means he can change things and redirect his trajectory and that of others. The simple illustration i tend to use is that of a pregnant woman. The learned doctor and laboratory machines can see, know and understand many things about the baby even more than the owner/parents and the fetus. To an extent, their scan and tell certain things about the child and even tell about the past and the date, state and size to be delivered. That's some knowledge and very reliable in many cases. While the doctor and machine knows all these, remember they didn't really cause it.
The second part is there are things that can change that normal and natural trajectory. The baby may still not be born or not be born in the state it was following. Some factors especially from the pregnant mother's decisions changed.
It's a microcosm of knowledge of the future. You have the God given potential to be the best in a good field but you can choose to carelessly change that and blow up your life in womanizing, drinking, gambling, all sort of indiscipline and even suicide. It can also be the other way around. Your lifestyle might give you off as a person with no reasonable future, but you can decide to do different. You change your trajectory. Like Nineveh, like Saul.

Okay taken. What happens to the so-called unbelievers?

johnhood:

Okay taken. What happens to the so-called unbelievers?

They can decide to do different. You change your trajectory.

MaxInDHouse:
The bolded in red was misconstrued by most religionists!

God knew doesn't mean he focused on all fetus that is conceived in the womb of all the women in the world, note how he treated the Israelites as his special possession, so based on his plans to bring out a saviour from that lineage God focused on the linage of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Judah that's the lineage through which the Christ will be born! Matthew 1:2
Satan started controlling the Earth's inhabitants right after the rebellion in the garden of Eden, so God wanted to protect the lineage through which the Christ (Messiah or Saviour) will be born, but as for all other nations it's whoever decides to come closer to God's plan whether for good motives or bad intention that God will focus not just everyone, to God all Adam's descendants are like wasted products until Jesus comes to establish pure worship. Then whoever takes interest in pure worship will also become a member of God's earthly family! John 3:16

Funny enough some people in these part can even swear that they are God chosen

An adage in my place says "we don't need to argue with the one who claims to have witnessed where fire was burning on water, all we need to ask is the ashes as proof"

Only a fool will believe someone who swears during a crucial matter, i don't need anybody to swear all i need is the evidence that you are God's chosen, and once that is verified nobody can change my mind on what i have seen the proof.

I have known God's chosen people today and i can boldly present the proof anytime, anywhere and before anybody who is willing to know!

With all the happenings around the world it's hard to believe that there is a Creator who cares somewhere out there, but patience is what is needed to solve the riddles. If there is no God we are intelligent enough to come together and discard the idea but not so fast if we truthfully want to debunk the idea with efficacy!

johnhood:

Funny enough some people in these part can even swear that they are God chosen

MaxInDHouse:
An adage in my place says "we don't need to argue with the one who claims to have witnessed where fire was burning on water, all we need to ask is the ashes as proof"

Only a fool will believe someone who swears during a crucial matter, i don't need anybody to swear all i need is the evidence that you are God's chosen, and once that is verified nobody can change my mind on what i have seen the proof.

I have known God's chosen people today and i can boldly present the proof anytime, anywhere and before anybody who is willing to know!

With all the happenings around the world it's hard to believe that there is a Creator who cares somewhere out there, but patience is what is needed to solve the riddles. If there is no God we are intelligent enough to come together and discard the idea but not so fast if we truthfully want to debunk the idea with efficacy!

I hope you know people in these part of world find it hard to question anything especially when it comes to religion. The prefer to see as the whites present it to them. Paradoxically even they whites have started discarding these believes but those they brought it to are killing themselves for it

kingxsamz:
Lol, save yourself the stress.
The Bible is just a Disney book of fairytales, with a "happily ever after" ending.

Let Nairaland Pastors see these.

The first thing you need to know is not all the white believe in religion despite the fact those who brought it were white skinned!
Faith is not a possession of all people, it has always been the inheritance of just a few.
So if you truly want to verify matters you must be ready as in fully prepared to answer lots and lots of thought provoking questions.
There is a group of chosen ones and according to the Bible even the most intelligent amongst the critics of the book (Bible) can't deny the proof they have!

johnhood:

I hope you know people in these part of world find it hard to question anything especially when it comes to religion. The prefer to see as the whites present it to them. Paradoxically even they whites have started discarding these believes but those they brought it to are killing themselves for it

MaxInDHouse:
The first thing you need to know is not all the white believe in religion despite the fact those who brought it were white skinned!
Faith is not a possession of all people, it has always been the inheritance of just a few.
So if you truly want to verify matters you must be ready as in fully prepared to answer lots and lots of thought provoking questions.
There is a group of chosen ones and according to the Bible even the most intelligent amongst the critics of the book (Bible) can't deny the proof they have!

Who are those group?

Whenever you see anybody bearing the title "Pastor" know that he/she is inwardly much more atheistic than Charles Darwin!

johnhood:

Let Nairaland Pastors see these.

MaxInDHouse:
Whenever you see anybody bearing the title "Pastor" know that he/she is inwardly much more atheistic than Charles Darwin!

Meaning?

Why not let's discuss on the proof before i introduce them?
If their proof is worthwhile then we can talk about how they were assembled but if their proof doesn't worth it, then there's no need talking about them!

johnhood:

Who are those group?

All title bearers are liars and they have nothing to do with God!

johnhood:

Meaning?

Who are those that have something to deal with God ?

MaxInDHouse:
All title bearers are liars and they have nothing to do with God!

MaxInDHouse :
If their proof is worthwhile

Most pastors don't even show proves

They are common people in the society but God's mark is on them so they are working as one big family throughout the globe to gather honest hearted and sincere individuals with the aim of making them members of God's family.
Why not let's talk about the PROOF ?

johnhood:
Who are those that have something to deal with God ?

Because they have nothing to do with God!

johnhood:


Most pastors don't even show proves