Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 - Religion - Nairaland
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| Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by EFULEFU1(m): 6:52am On Dec 28, 2020 |
Genesis 3:4-5,22 [4]Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. [5]For God knows that in the day you eat of it [b]your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and ev[/b]il.” [22]Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 1 Timothy 2:14 [14]And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by petra1(m): 7:12am On Dec 28, 2020 |
The lie and deception is "You will not sureply die Because God was talking about spiritual death which is a separation from God . This is FIRST DEATH. So they actually died that day. And they are to be damned forever after judgment which the bible calls SECOND DEATH Rev 20:14 — Rev 20:15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. 1 Like |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by livingchrist: 7:16am On Dec 28, 2020 |
EFULEFU1:Yes they died that day but it was a spiritual death. |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by MuttleyLaff: 10:24am On Dec 28, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: EFULEFU1: petra1: livingchrist:"16And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die." - Genesis 2:16-17 @petra1, @livingchrist and particularly @EFULEFU1 You should be familiar of this ''You surely will not die!'' ''grain/straw and stick'' or '''chicken/fish and bone'' Genesis 3:4 message to Eve: Is the Genesis 3:4 message, an absolute truth or a pseudo truth statement? Since after the fall from grace to grass, and from that moment on, we are born, our mortality (i.e. the state of being subject to death) clock, starts to tick down. The Hebrew words "muth, muth", used in Genesis 2:17 above, often as equally seen above, is usually translated as "surely die" or literally, as "you will certainly die" when actually, in a Hebraic manner of speaking, it correctly, indicates the sense and understanding of beginning of dying. "Muth, muth," in fact, conveys a meaning of and gives, an awareness of entered death (i.e. have a sense of gradual or slow death starting), hence why and how, it is, we die by the second, we are in fact, slowly dying. It will interest you to know that, one million cells in your body, die every second. That means in one day, approximately 1.2 kg of cells in your body dies. We surely are dying, unlike not surely die, as what the serpent would want Eve to believe @EFULEFU1, where lies the serpent's deception in Genesis 3:4-5 &/or 22, is that, the serpent failed to admit that, eating of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, points in the direction of death, (i.e. to die) as that is what "surely die" means. To die, (i.e. "muth, muth'') is the result, for eating, off the TKGE and so, slowly but surely, Adam and Eve did approach death, unlike the lie fashioned by the crafty serpent and sold to Eve. @petra1 & @livingchrist, God wasn't explicit, about the kind of death, He was talking off, so petra1 now saying "God was talking about spiritual death" is sheer outright eisegesis with bells on. Spiritual death, is instantaneous. It occurs immediately, whereas, physical death, though the process has started, it is delayed. It is slow, its dragged out and often is over a long time period, lmso. Physical death, often continues on, over a long time before eventually one finally once and for all, drops dead or sleep and die, lmso. Adam lived to be 930 years old, before the grim reaper finally caught up and came knocking on his door |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by sagenaija: 11:09am On Dec 28, 2020 |
God was in effect saying "... dying, you shall die." |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by MuttleyLaff: 11:19am On Dec 28, 2020 |
sagenaija:  Exactamundo! "Muth, muth," literally is "... dying, you shall die" aka "slow death", aka "to die", aka "surely die" or also aka "you will certainly die" The English word "dying" is an adjective used to describe anyone or anything that is on the point of death. |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by petra1(m): 2:00pm On Dec 28, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: Ofcourse its instant . God was referring instant death. On the particular day. Man died that day Genesis 2:17 . . .for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by MuttleyLaff: 2:52pm On Dec 28, 2020 |
petra1:"16And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die." - Genesis 2:16-17 The Hebrew words "muth, muth", used in Genesis 2:17 above, when translated from meaning "to die", says "for in the day that you eat of it, you will begin to die" and that is exactly what happened, in that A&E surely did begin to die. There's nothing in the verse nor chapter that put forward a consideration of spiritual death. This is erroneous assumption passed down from bad learning |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by petra1(m): 8:44pm On Dec 28, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: Mut is not gradually but instant or sudden. Check the highlighted below h4191. מוּת mûṯ; a primitive root: to die (literally or figuratively); causatively, to kill: — x at all, x crying, (be) dead (body, man, one), (put to, worthy of) death, destroy(-er), (cause to, be like to, must) die, kill, necro(-mancer), x must needs, slay, x surely, x very suddenly, x in (no) wise. There's nothing in the verse nor chapter that put forward a consideration of spiritual death. This is erroneous assumption passed down from bad learning Man is a tripartite being. He is first a spirit hw has a soul and function in body. Death is a separation. Eternal death is eternal separation. At the first death in eden man was still physically alive . At the second death in Lake of fire . Man will still be physically alive but eternally separated and tormented Gradual death is human excuse to help God . But God doesn't need it. The Bible didn't say "we were dying in sin " (Adam sin) Rather Dead . Its an absolute Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, . . 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by MuttleyLaff: 8:51pm On Dec 28, 2020 |
petra1:"Muth, muth", means "slow death" period. |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by Image123(m): 8:55pm On Dec 28, 2020 |
How can anyone see this world we are living in, in comparison to Eden, and still be asking mumu question? Evidently, the serpent's deception is rooted in your head |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by Kobojunkie: 9:19pm On Dec 28, 2020 |
sagenaija:I disagree. Instead I believe God meant that he would perish in the grave meaning he would cease to exist (mind, body and soul) when he closes His eyes on this earth for the last time. God instituted the condemnation of sin which is death, beginning with Adam, for all those who disbelief God. Adam did die in that day( a thousand years is as a day in the presence of God). As for the serpents major offence, I believe it was inserting himself between God and His creation. The serpent by twisting God's command, inserted Himself as a god unto man, and man without much hesitation, believed the serpent's words over God's. |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by Kobojunkie: 9:21pm On Dec 28, 2020 |
petra1:There is no such thing as spiritual death to one who is still living. The spirit in man lives on until a man dies. If we are to assume "spiritual death" as you claim, then how did Abel, Seth - both of them direct offspring's of the same Adam-manage to cultivate a relationship with God after the fall of Adam? Please let's rid our minds of the spiritual bullsheet which is cooked up in the minds of men, lies, that are meaningless where the things of God is concerned. If God meant spiritual death, God could have told Adam straight up, " your spirit will die". Instead, God said, "In that day, YOU will surely die". YOU implied the entirety of MAN, not a piece of man or even man's spirit alone. 1 Like |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by livingchrist: 9:54pm On Dec 28, 2020 |
Kobojunkie:spiritual death does not mean your spirit will die but rather it means separation from God, Abel and the rest people you mentioned walked with God by faith but they all still suffered the consequences of Adam's sin. The effect of Spiritual disconnection from God resulted in hardships, sin controlled humans, physical death, Judgment and eternal damnation all these are as a result of spiritual death. |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:19pm On Dec 28, 2020 |
SEE ISU ATA YÁNAN YÀNAN..... YAM PEPPER SCATTER SCATTER!  all in the name of the same Lord! Luke 11:23  May JEHOVAH'S holy name be sanctified forever amongst JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES in Jesus name ~ Amen! Matthew 6:9  |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by Kobojunkiee: 10:39pm On Dec 28, 2020 |
You have to toss that spiritual bullsheet language in the trash where it belongs in order to make sense of this here.
In the passage below, God makes clear His intentions for dealing out additional punishments after the fall of man.
livingchrist:Separation from God that happened to Adam and Eve as a result of their unbelief, was not a spiritual separation but a physical one that took place when God Himself barred them from coming back into the garden of Eden. How that implies "spiritual death", you would need to explain with references. Man was driven out of the garden of Eden for a reason.... as given us above. livingchrist:So what you are saying is that Adam did not walk with God by faith while he was with God in the garden of Eden, but somehow Abel and Seth figured out, all on their own, how to walk with God by faith out in the world? Let's assume for a second that your definition of "spiritual death" is to hold, then how come God is recorded to have spoken to Abel and Cain while they were out in the world, this after the fall of man? Was God not aware of the separation that needed to exist between God and man, which you claim a result of the fall?
livingchrist:God was clear on His reason for imposing suffering on man after the fall - there was no mention of "spiritual" disconnection between God and man at that point - God's judgment/message seemed to have been received on the other end by man. livingchrist:On Sin controlling humans, Well, I mention again Abel and Seth, who obviously seemed to be first-generation exceptions to your story there. Sin definitely took hold but the examples of such men as Abel, Seth, Enoch, Noah, showed that not all offsprings of Adam were controlled by sin in the end, does it not? They were slaves to sin by birth but not all of them controlled by sin. livingchrist:In terms of Judgement, what happened in Genesis 3 was the Judgement of God, was it not? God judged Adam and all those who would choose sin after Him at that point. And His judgement stands forever, does it not? The same condemnation of sin, which is death is what lives on even to this day, for all those who are born of Adam that refuse to believe in God -- the wages of sin is death. As for your claim of eternal damnation, well, that is refuted in Genesis 3 where you are told that Adam did not eat of the tree of eternal life. Since Adam did not indeed have eternal life(eternity), there was no way for him to spend eternity in damnation. Instead, Adam perished in that day(He died less than 1000 years later) as God decreed that He would in Genesis 2 vs 17 and Genesis 3 vs 19 - God did not lie. |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by petra1(m): 11:00pm On Dec 28, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: Maybe you missed this in my post . From strongs concordance . . .surely, x very suddenly. . . |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by MuttleyLaff: 4:12am On Dec 29, 2020 |
sagenaija: Kobojunkie:Use whatever resources, you are able to lay your hands to correctly and properly translate the Hebrew saying "muth, muth" into an english speaking expression then Kobojunkie:The human being is tripartite, meaning it is made up of three parties, namely the body, mind/soul and spirit. When a person physically dies, the body perishes in the ground, and the soul stays in Sheol awaiting judgment day. Man is born an atheist and spiritually dead, as the spirit had already departed the human body, and causing spiritual death after A&E ate the fruit of the TKGE. The good news is that believers as a result of their beliefs, automatically get to be born again aka born from high (i.e. John 3:3 & 7) and so become spiritually alive together with being reconnected to back to God Kobojunkie:The reward for sin is death and/or separation (i.e. Romans 6:23) Adam did die in that day and did die, shade of a thousand years later. Adam was spiritually separated from God, at the instant of eating the fruit of the TKGE, and so Adam died a spiritual death because his frequency connection to the God Transmitter got jammed. He finally, after 930 years living on earth physically died Kobojunkie:"13Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” “The serpent deceived me,” she replied, “and I ate.” 14So the LORD God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and every beast of the field!" - Genesis 3:13 The serpent's major offence is being a bad influence on Eve, as in meaning, inserting itself, to be a bad god unto man, lmso Fyi, it was Eve who believed the serpent's words over God's and was deceived. Adam wasn't deceived (i.e. 1 Timothy 2:14) Adam's dereliction of duty was a mistake, because it made him not only have misplaced loyalty, but have it for a misguided cause |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by MuttleyLaff: 5:03am On Dec 29, 2020 |
petra1:"Sin came into the world through one man, and his sin brought death with it. As a result, death has spread to the whole human race because everyone has sinned." - Romans 5:12 "So you see, just as death came into the world through a man, now the resurrection from the dead has begun through another man." - 1 Corinthians 15:21 Maybe you missed that I crossed out "very suddenly" in your post. You are parking in ordinarily "muth" when the verse focused on "muth muth" Besides, "very suddenly. . ." in that Strong's Concordance excerpt, has a prepended "X" to it. The "X" means, "very suddenly. . ." when used or taken into consideration, multiples the original meaning of the word, it now is trying to associate with. wikipedia: You need to become familiar with Hebrew infinitive absolute construct The scripture clearly states that through one man death came into the world. From reading Romans 5:12 & 1 Corinthians 15:21, what death do you think Genesis 2:17 is talking of and that true to form, did so happen to man? |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:03am On Dec 29, 2020 |
The deception! No DEATH! You will be absolutely free You will become Gods You will set your own perfect standards No DEATH ~ Adam and Eve perfectly understood the first language spoken in the garden of Eden, they knew what life means so they got the sense of non-existence! Satan wanted them to feel that God's word was just an empty threat and nothing can return them to non-existence (their former state before creation) Adam knew this was a lie because he saw how God formed so many creatures and lastly his spouse so he knew it can't be difficult for God to return them back to oblivion. But Eve never saw the making of anything even the instruction not to eat of the forbidden fruit was given to Adam who passed the info to her! Absolute freedom ~ God wants both of them to live happily forever, for that to be possible they have to help themselves by keeping some dos and donts as they could get hurt physically, mentally and emotionally, to avoid this they need some life saving instructions which will demand some sort of restraint on their part. But as a higher intelligent and much more powerful being Satan wanted to rule over them, the only way to get this done is by turning their mind against the one who can save them from bullies like himself, that helper is their loving Creator (GOD) Becoming Gods ~ Adam and Eve were the only creatures with the ability to speak in Eden so that they can call any other creature and send them on errands. But soon their will be many more intelligent creatures when they start having children, so to gain total control over all their children Satan is suggesting that they need to stand on their own and not depend on some invisible person, of course if Adam and Eve should tell their children "this or that is not safe" they need to tell the child how they got the info since they've not tested it before. So for them to gain total dominance they need to go on adventure, try everything so they can speak from their own experience and not what some skydaddy asked them not to do! Perfect standards ~ As we can see mankind will surely need guidance from some higher intelligent being, this implies setting rules but if they have to depend on God (who is invisible) how can they be sure that such rules are truly beneficial? After all they're the ones to benefit from such standards not some invisible person who can't feel what they're feeling in the flesh so Satan is suggesting that they set their own standards. Well that's what humans have been trying to do ever since then, today the standard we are using is called DEMOCRACY after so many failed systems. God promised to bring back his own standard but first he will wipe out all human set up and all those who love what is not benefitting us! Daniel 2:44 May you have PEACE! EFULEFU1: 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by petra1(m): 8:36am On Dec 29, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: If its a progressive death . He won't emphasize "that day" its instantaneous experience. Contemporary English Version except the one that has the power to let you know the difference between right and wrong. If you eat any fruit from that tree, you will die before the day is over! Good News Translation except the tree that gives knowledge of what is good and what is bad. You must not eat the fruit of that tree; if you do, you will die the same day." 1 Like |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by MuttleyLaff: 9:05am On Dec 29, 2020 |
petra1:The operative word "to" in the "to die" Hebrew original saying, disqualifies any consideration of instantaneousness. The emphasis is on the action, meaning, the way or manner of death on that day. When they ate the fruit on that, their dormant mortality clock came alive and began the tick tock countdown of them now being subjected to death. They immediately severed spiritual connection with God, meaning they quite alright experienced spiritual death, but physical death 930 years later, progressively and eventually caught up with Adam and then he died, making the prophecy come true full. 1 Like |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by sonmvayina(m): 9:48am On Dec 29, 2020 |
livingchrist: God is a spirit right ? And when we die our spirit leaves our body..How can spirit be seperated from spirit. Which seperation technique do you think will be appropriate? Dustillation or chromatography? Read psalm 104:29-31 and Ecclesiastics 12:7 1 Like |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by sonmvayina(m): 9:54am On Dec 29, 2020 |
Like i always say and teach..Adam means man it is from the root word Adama which means "from the earth" . The story is just a recast of an earlier Babylonian epic that tells of how man lost the chance to dwell indefinately on earth. The serpent is no other than Ninghiszida "the serpent of the good tree" as in the original tale there where two trees. One good and one evil. (The serpent of the evil tree was Dimuzi) ...we all know that anywhere you see Dimuzi, Inanna( lucifer ) is not far behind. He was her lover. The serpent is not The devil (Nanna). That is not his domain. He is the moon god or the god of darkness. People should just learn to see beyond the wriiten words and learn the spiritual message..they ara all beautiful for those with discerning minds.. |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by petra1(m): 10:00am On Dec 29, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: Its not true. Hebrews refers to instant death. Can you give a translations that suport your suggestion or a Bible authority |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by MuttleyLaff: 10:37am On Dec 29, 2020 |
petra1:Should in case you dont realise, "that" and/or "same" aren't even in the original Hebrew text for the word(s) to be emphasised petra1: answersingenesis.org |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by sonmvayina(m): 10:43am On Dec 29, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: Life is all there is..life is a circle..when you die in the physical ir means your spirit seperate from its abode, ie the physical body made from dust. The spirit goes to the spiritual realm while the body goes to the earth(back to default) when somebody dies in the spiritual or spiritual death means somebody is born in the flesh...it is a circle.. The star of David on the israeli flage means "as above so bellow" |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by MuttleyLaff: 10:53am On Dec 29, 2020 |
sonmvayina:www.nairaland.com/attachments/12468982_fc1cb4e7d018740252f6699c101969dd_jpeg0e05290ad3a46e0c26dc36b60b38941a Is it a hidden code or is it a coincidence that the 6-pointed star of David on the Israeli flag is the sign of the Anti-Christ, hmm? |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by Janosky: 11:16am On Dec 29, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: Bros, where you see am for your Bible that "The bright morning Star na 2 triangle opposite each other?  |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by MuttleyLaff: 11:19am On Dec 29, 2020 |
Janosky:Bros, paste in here an image or picture of the star of David on the Israeli flag please nah and let's peer review it together. I am 10001% sure you didnt closely follow the thread of the post before jumping in feet first to comment about the star |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by petra1(m): 11:34am On Dec 29, 2020 |
MuttleyLaff: It doesn't matter . Its the meaning of the phrase that count |
| Re: Where Lies The Serpents Deception? Genesis 3 by Janosky: 11:34am On Dec 29, 2020 |
MaxInDHouse:Yes my Brother,Max !  All the 3 pagan spirits worshippers and triune deities devotees can NEVER have a clear cut , definite understanding of Genesis chapter 3.. They are as confused as the triune demonic spirits confusing them. Will God's holy spirit give contrary & diverse understanding to Paul , Jesus Christ, Peter and John ? |
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