What Is The Great Tribulation? - Religion - Nairaland
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Events Of The Great Tribulation / Will Great Tribulation Take Place Before The Rapture? / The Rapture Will Not Happen Until Christians Have Faced The Great Tribulation (2) (3) (4)
| What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 4:48pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
There have being many debate on what the tribulation is, and those to go through it. Well this thread seeks to make some clarity about what the great tribulation is, and those it is meant for. The great tribulation was spoken of by christ when he was asked by his disciples to tell them things that will be at the end of time. Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. As spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ, the great tribulation is a period of severe troubles, sorrow, anguish and test. It is called the hour of trials, Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. To properly understand what the great tribulation is all about, we have to go back to the book of daniel. Matthew 24:15-16 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Jesus was speaking to an audience who knew the prophecies of Daniel and that audience is the jewish disciples. Jesus was essentially saying go and understand the prophecy of Daniel. This is interesting as many people who talk about end time prophecies neglect the prophecy of Daniel and as a result end up with error. What is the prophecy of daniel? The seventy weeks The great tribualtion is actually from the 70 weeks of Daniel's prophecy. I want us to look at this verse carefully Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. First of all a fixed period of time determined to upon Daniel's people. The question is, who are Daniel's people? The Jews! Not the Gentile church but the jewish church wow. 3 Likes |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 4:50pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
The Jewish church or the nation of Israel are the people of Daniel, and they are the ones that the prophecy was made for. 1 Like |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 5:25pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. The seventy weeks are meant to a accomplish the following, 1. To finish trangresaion- the law could not finish the transgressions of the jewish nation but rather it multiplied it so, there must be another way apart from the law that could finish transgression. 2. To make and end of sin,- for sin to end the law itself must be fulfilled, the jews understand these things. 3. To make reconciliation for iniquity- the Jews had never being faithful in their relationship with God, they are like an estranged children from the womb. 4. To bring everlasting righteousness, this is a new type of righteousness 5. To seal vision and prophecy -All prophecies and visions concerning Israel will be fulfilled. 6. To anoint the most Holy, thsi is probqbly talking of the messiah himself. 2 Likes |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 5:26pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
To be continued... 1 Like |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by doggedfighter(f): 5:38pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
Bollocks |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by Righteousness2(m): 5:51pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
Wonderful peace sir! Like you said the GT is the 70th week of Daniel. Let me add this. The GT is a time of Jacob's ( Isreal Trouble) Jeremiah 30 explains that. Isreal is GOD's Prophetic time Piece. Isreal ( The very Elect) are yet to Belive in JESUS Christ as their Messiah and King. We, the Gentiles, the Church are the ones with that Privilege right now. The Book of Revelation of John the Beloved Explains more. From Revelation Chapters 1-3 you see GOD's Message to the Churches which represents us the Gentiles. From Chapters 4 he tells John " Come up hither" and I will show u things that will be here after. From that point you will see that the Church is not mentioned. From that point you see all the unveiling of the seals that brings wrath on the Earth. The GT is a time of GOD'S undiluted Wrath on Earth. It's gonna be so raw. Men will look for death but death will run away. The GT will witness the unveiling of the Lawless one aka the antichrist.The Rapture of the Church is the Trigger of all these. 2Thessalonians 2. Right now the Signs are Ever! Anyday, anytime, JESUS will snatch His bride out of the Earth. Be Ready Folks! You can't afford to be left behind. JESUS is calling you today. His hands are wide open to receive u. Don't delay. Delay could be Dangerous In Conclusion the GT has 2 Purpose 1. To Reconcile Isreal to JESUS Christ 2. To Punish the Gentiles who rejected who rejected JESUS. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 6:27pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
Righteousness2:God bless you, you are absolutely correct 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by Ihedinobi3: 6:42pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
livingchrist: livingchrist: livingchrist: Hello. I think that you are solite3 and I believe we have established a difference of opinion on this matter and on a few others. For me that is not a problem (the problem that led me to seek fellowship away from you is the teaching that salvation cannot be lost since that leads believers into a position of very fatal vulnerability), but I don't really think we will accomplish anything of value debating the matter. So I mean to make an answer here but not in order to start a debate. I will answer anything you have to say in response if I can do so reasonably and without strife. Otherwise I will refrain. I think that the Bible's position on this is really not confusing. Just one passage in the Scriptures (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) is enough to sort all that out, but I have seen that the problem is not clarity on the Bible's part. In every single case where I have discussed this matter, the issue has been one of fear of the persecutions of the Tribulation. I don't think that that is something that any debate can solve. Rather it is something that a deliberate choice to grow spiritually no matter the cost will solve. The more confident we grow in the Lord and the more we value the things of the world to come, the less concerned with this world we will be. One who is all caught up in the hope of the world to come hardly notices the pains of this life. That hope becomes an insulation from those pains. We see this so powerfully demonstrated in the case of Stephen whose martyrdom is amazingly devoid of any hint of fear or pain from him as he was being stoned. We even read of those who suffered horrendous things for their faith in Hebrews 11:35b-38. These ones, we hear, refused to be released from their suffering because they hoped for a "better Resurrection." This is amazing. It seems impossible, but the Scriptures teach us that it is true. When we embrace the truth, it does set us free even from our fears. The truth is not only that the Tribulation is going to happen before we are resurrected to be with the Lord forever but also that those of us who are committed to following the Lord no matter what will be preserved in their faith even if they are tortured and killed. So rather than responding in fear, we ought to respond in hope that right on the heels of the Tribulation is the return of our King and our Resurrection to be with Him forever. This is a treatment of the Tribulation that I highly recommend to anyone who cares: https://ichthys.com/Coming-Tribulation-Home-Page.htm. To understand that treatment properly, this series too is a good precursor: https://ichthys.com/Satanic-Rebellion-Home-Page.htm. |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 7:15pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
livingchrist:A brake down of what and what events make up the seventy years Daniel 9:24-26 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Threescore means sixty, a score is twenty So threescore and two weeks means sixty-two weeks. But before this 62 weeks, 7 weeks would be exhausted in rebuilding Jerusalem Jerusalem and the temple. Let us see, how many years it took to rebuild the temple When Jesus said he was going to raise up the temple in three days after destruction, they thought it was their temple which took them 46 years to build. John 2:19-20 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? However, from the prophecy of Daniel 7 weeks was for building the city and the temple. A week actually mean 7 years, for each day represented a year. So seventy weeks is 7 ×7 years which is 49 years this actually tallied with the Jews account. |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by At10tion: 7:17pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
With many revelations I've seen and heard which are also in line with the scripture, the rapture will happen somehow in the mid of the great tribulation, before it fully commence, before the wrath of God falls upon the earth. |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by peggywebbs(f): 7:22pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
Following |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 7:28pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
[so there is actually, 7 weeks + 62 weeks which is 69 all together. But it is 70 weeks not 69 weeks, what happened to the remaining one week. Now something happened at the end of that sixty nine weeks, and that is, the messiah was cut off The messiah is the saviour of the jews, the messiah was not for the gentiles but for the Jews he came because of the Jews, period in which the messiah came was for the Jews not the gentiles, that was why Jesus told his disciples to preach to jews only, he himself came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. John 2:19-20 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? Why will Jesus tell his disciples not to go to the gentiles? |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by obonujoker(m): 7:35pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
Looking and watching |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 7:43pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
Christ came during the weeks of Daniel's prophecy which was strictly for Israel not gentles. Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. This is why Christ told his disciples not to go to the gentiles but there were some gentiles that were converted but they were not the focus of God's programme, the seventy weeks. But there was a problem, Israel did not know that it was her time of visitation. Luke 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation. Due to their ignorance and blindness they killed their messiah hence fulfilling the prophecy that at the end of the sixty-two weeks the messiah would be cut off. Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. The death of Christ or messiah brought the sixty two weeks to a end, and actually suspended Israel's seventy weeks bringing in the times of the gentiles. The times of the gentiles |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 7:56pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
The times of the gentiles is a certain stretch of time in which God will not focus on the jews but on the gentiles, which is actually called the church age. This started after Jesus resurrection, he told his disciples this time around to preach to the whole world. Matthew 28:18-19 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: The gospel was no more restricted to the Jews only but now to Gentiles also, Israel was no longer God's focus, this lead to Israel's jealousy. Yes Israel was jealous because what she could not get through the law of moses was now given to the gentiles who were unclean and acursed, the holy ghost confirming the gentiles with undeniable signs and wonders, Actually this was in fulfillment of the prophecy that God would move Israel to jealousy. Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. Deuteronomy 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. God sworn to move them to jealousy by making the gentiles his people, since Israel moved God to jealousy by worshipping the Gentile gods This jealousy was what lead to the persecution of the christian church |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 7:58pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
To be continued..... God said he would move Israel to Jealous through the Gentile, meaning God would no longer show them that special attention he showed the during their days. Israel was blinded and cut of so that the Gentiles might benefit. John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded God blinded them spiritual not to know who Jesus really was, so that his counsel will stand. |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by paxonel(m): 8:31pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
livingchrist:This is the first time i have seen anyone in Nigeria even among pastors willing to reason about this great tribulation thing. You were right to observe that if anyone want to understand what the great tribulation is all about then he must make reference to Daniel's prophecy, even Jesus Christ made reference to Daniel in Matthew 24. Please let's look at it again Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Obviously, it took just seventy weeks(one year and four months) for the great tribulation to happen, all though this period was shorted for the sake of the elects(the disciples) otherwise, they wouldn't have survived it. Who did the great tribulation happened to? It happened to Daniel's people(The Jews) of which Jesus disciples were also part of the Jews who experienced it in their time. What was the transgression that occurred during the great tribulation? It was the crucifixion of Jesus Christ(who was anointed the most holy) which ended sins, brought everlasting righteousness and reconcile iniquity according to what Daniel fore-saw So, obviously these whole thing called the great tribulation has already happened in the days of Jesus crucifixion. This is why most times when i come to NL i made people understand that there is nothing like rapture or end time There is nothing like the great tribulation or mark of the beast or whatever, they are all fictional doctrines and are never biblical. Then i asked Christians, what are you people afraid of? Why do you always being afraid of the future, what kinda demonic life is that? God has given you life to live, he even sent his son Jesus Christ to die so that you might have the life to live eternally here on this earth, forever. So why not just live your life and enjoy it to the fullest? Why are you afraid of the unknown that will obviously never come? |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by osarogie28841: 9:45pm On Jan 02, 2021 |
The Jewish church or the nation of Israel are the people of Daniel, and they are the ones that the prophecy was made for. |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 9:30pm On Jan 06, 2021 |
paxonel:you are mistaking, prophetic timeline is not the same as human timeline. For example how many years did it take the Jews to build their temple and city? Buy the prophetic timeline was days but the literal time is actually a year for a day. |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 9:41pm On Jan 06, 2021 |
Sometimes, prophecies ignore time duration between two events making it look like successive events without any time delay between them that is why many do not understand the pretribulation rapture Between the 69 weeks and the last 1 week is a long stretch of time called the church age. This is the time we are in at present but this church age would soon be over. |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 9:55pm On Jan 06, 2021 |
Before the church age, Israel was the sole means through which God's truth would be passed on to the world, They were a light in this world, a guide to the blind, but all that changed when their time was suspended, the church is God's sole means of passing spiritual truth. Anybody still thinking Jerusalem or Israel is a holy land is wasting his or her time. The christian is God's temple, God's holy land no longer Israel. Remember God did not cast off his people, God's dealing with man has always being through faith Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. Israel fell away through unbelief, even when the law itself was pointing her to Christ but she was stubborn thinking she could attain righteousness by keeping the law. Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Let me make this clear, the purpose of the law was never to make anybody righteous rather it was to point the Israelities to the source of righteousness itself, yes the living waters himself. It is only by christ anyone could be righteous, that is why Abraham and all the other patriarch look forward to God's righteousness (Jesus) not their own hence their looking forward to God's righteousness was counted to them as faith. Now the relationship between faith and works, Because Abraham was looking forward to a more superior righteousness than the human one, his life was configured to living in hope of that righteousness. Abraham works were as a result of the fact that he was he found a more superior righteousness in God. Jesus death was just to seal up the promise of God to them just as it is to us, if we receive him as our saviour. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 9:57pm On Jan 06, 2021 |
God wanted Israel to look into him and not into anything else, Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. But Israel failed, supposing they were looking for God instead of human ability they would have him. |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 10:01pm On Jan 06, 2021 |
God allowed Israel fall not to destroy them but to purify them, so that Israel's restoration shall be entirely by God. God is not through with Israel yet[/b] For God to restore Israel, the church must be taken away from the scene |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 10:04pm On Jan 06, 2021 |
Remember that the 70 years is entirely for Israel not for the gentile church. The 70 years was made to restore daniel's people. The gentile church was not present during the 69th week and WILL NOT BE PRESENT IN THE REMAINING 1 WEEK |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 10:13pm On Jan 06, 2021 |
This is actually a proof of the tribualtion rapture. the 70th week of Daniel prophecy Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Compare it with this below, Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand You can see that Jesus was referring to the Jewish church, remember that the Gentile church has not be formed during Jesus ministry on earth. Paul was God's instrument in building the gentile church. In Mathew 24 and other gospel, the end time events was told in the Jewish church perspective, Jesus well not just speaking to those present then but those in future yet to come and since Jesus was speaking to the Jewish church he omited the rapture which was a latter revelation through Apostle Paul. |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 10:18pm On Jan 06, 2021 |
The great Tribulation is not for the church (gentile church) but for Israel It is called Jacob's trouble. Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. Ever wondered why after Revelation 3 you no longer read of the church again until you get to verse 19 when Jesus returns from heaven? After the church age is over, God returns to Israel but this time He takes them through a serious fire that, it seem as if God doubted if they would be able to withstand the heat. |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 10:24pm On Jan 06, 2021 |
The second people the great tribulation is made for is the unbelieving world. To destroy those who do not believe the gospel 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. If you dont believe in the Christian message, chances are, you fall for satan's lie, Which itself has started only in a sublime way, that is why every ungodly movement, programmes and what's not are gaining followership. Only the Christian messages can save you. Only if you would belive on the Lord Jesus for the salvation of your soul. Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Shallom |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by paxonel(m): 9:22am On Jan 07, 2021 |
livingchrist:whatever you call it, prophetic timeline or human timeline, it doesn't dispute the fact that Daniel's prophecy was referring to the period when Jesus came to die and resurrect, so when the time came Jesus in Matthew 24 draw the attention of his disciples to Daniel's prophecy that Daniel prophesy the fulfilment of what will happen when he will come and die and resurrect. That Matthew 24 was mistaken to refer to rapture by our current day Christian missions where as it was talking about what will happen when Jesus came and die and resurrect |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by paxonel(m): 9:58am On Jan 07, 2021 |
livingchrist:all i needed you to understand is that this prophecy of Daniel has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ's death and resurrection. The day he resurrected he confirmed the new covenant, remember it took the third day for Jesus to resurrect? That is already within one week. His death and resurrection also ended the sacrifices common among the Jews in the old covenant. this is what i was saying. Jesus made reference to Daniel to let his disciples know that it was time to fulfill that prophecy, it was time for him to die and resurrect. there was nothing like the Jewish church Christianity has not yet been established then, rather it was the Jewish synagogue. is there distinction between the Jewish church and the gentile church? I don't think so also know that the phrase "end time or end of the world" in Matthew 24 was spoken metaphorically and does not necessarily mean end of the word as it is seen. The literal meaning is end of the old covenant which ended at Jesus death and resurrection |
| Re: What Is The Great Tribulation? by livingchrist: 5:34am On Mar 18, 2021 |
Llll |
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