abbey621:

HE AIN'T GOING TO JAIL.....

This is probably true. But he does not need to go to jail for the damage to be done, which is what this is all about, deservedly, I daresay.

kponkedenge:

Look whether Trump was a former president or not, this is huge... And I'll advise you not to try and gamble on him escaping jail term for this cos your money would go.

I would bet money on his no jail time. It will cost him though. The fine will destroy him.

abbey621:

You can't just say a customer claims his assets are worth 100 million so let's grant him 100 million loan without conducting due diligence.

The case against trump is not one of due diligence but about him misrepresenting the value of an asset up for a loan and down for tax, which is fraud.

drediamond:


The thing is, this is going to look really bad on Trump.

Precisely. And thanks for commenting.

budaatum:

This is probably true. But he does not need to go to jail for the damage to be done, which is what this is all about, deservedly, I daresay.

Don't let the progressives hear you, they want blood and tears. They want him to lose all his money, assets and rot in a jail cell. I still followed one of them argue earlier today and I had to take tylenol for the amount of jargon thrown my way

abbey621:


I already told you why he hid it, he does not want to seem poorer than he is ....

Seriously? So it was not to take advantage in anyway like to get a larger loan than the assets deserve or pay less tax than he owes?

I want to believe you believe trump is pious like that, I really do, but you sound far too knowledgeable for me to believe you believe he is that pious.

abbey621:


Don't let the progressives hear you, they want blood and tears. They want him to lose all his money, assets and rot in a jail cell. I still followed one of them argue earlier today and I had to take tylenol for the amount of jargon thrown my way

He will lose a considerable amount of his assets and money if he loses this case. That's what he's scared off. In fact, he's already lost a lot of money and assets because of his deplorable behaviour after losing the election which tarnished his name and caused many to cut business with him.

Trump deserves tylenol thrown at him for his deplorable behaviour and he's getting it thrown at him in buckets!

budaatum:


Seriously? So it was not to take advantage in anyway like to get a larger loan than the assets deserve or pay less tax than he owes?

I want to believe you believe trump is pious like that, I really do, but you sound far too knowledgeable for me to believe you believe he is that pious.

Remember all his taxes were only hidden after 2010, all the major loans he had occurred before then so I don't know how your theory is relevant unless you meant he inflated his income to IRS and then deflated it the next tax season, can you explain? Furthermore, any bank in the USA that would give you a major loan would do so by asking for bank statements and IRS issued tax transcipt better known as 4605-T. Overall this looks more like a civil issue, the criminal aspect lacks merit.

budaatum:


He will lose a considerable amount of his assets and money if he loses this case. That's what he's scared off. In fact, he's already lost a lot of money and assets because of his deplorable behaviour after losing the election which tarnished his name and caused many to cut business with him.

Trump deserves tylenol thrown at him for his deplorable behaviour and he's getting it thrown at him in buckets!

I already said I'm not going to argue about civil consequences, he sdeserves what he gets, my only point of argument is criminal liabilities.

abbey621:


Remember all his taxes were only hidden after 2010, all the major loans he had occurred before then so I don't know how your theory is relevant unless you meant he inflated his income to IRS and then deflated it the next tax season, can you explain? Furthermore, any bank in the USA that would give you a major loan would do so by asking for bank statements and IRS issued tax transcipt better known as 4605-T. Overall this looks more like a civil issue, the criminal aspect lacks merit.

It is not true that trump's tax was only hidden after 2010! He is far too astute a businessman to not have hidden aspects of his tax going back to his father's time, and I personally have never seen nor heard the details of trump's tax records prior to 2010. If you have kindly share.

We will only find out if its criminal or civil when he's charged of course, which they need his hidden tax records to check.

budaatum:


It is not true that trump's tax was only hidden after 2010! He is far too astute a businessman to not have hidden aspects of his tax going back to his father's time, and I personally have never seen nor heard the details of trump's tax records prior to 2010. If you have kindly share.

We will only find out if its criminal or civil when he's charged of course, which they need his hidden tax records to check.

In the U.S when you file bankruptcy, you must submit your tax returns to creditors and the trustee. Between 1991 and 2009, Trump did 6 bankruptcies for his business, so there's no way his taxes were hidden.

abbey621:


I already said I'm not going to argue about civil consequences, he sdeserves what he gets, my only point of argument is criminal liabilities.

And I'm not arguing he has criminal liabilities since he has not even been charged for any yet. His tax records are being requested to see if he has committed a crime, and only after they are seen will he be charged for either a civil offence, or a crime or a nothing to see here.

abbey621:


In the U.S when you file bankruptcy, you must submit your tax returns to creditors and the trustee. Between 1991 and 2009, Trump did 6 bankruptcies for his business, so there's no way his taxes were hidden.

I'm sure he has fantastic accountants. I am including tax avoidance and fiddling records in my "hidden". I do not trust trump to be honest.

budaatum:

I'm sure he has fantastic accountants. I am including tax avoidance and fiddling records in my "hidden". I do not trust trump to be honest.

Now you're just reaching.....fiddling, tax avoidance? For this obodo America , this is America o, 90% of all citizens fiddle with their taxes from dependents to child tax credits. Even our African community over here are used to buying dependents for tax purposes. Abeg make we talk something else jaare

drediamond:


Lol did you read the attached link which answered your question? It reads and I quote in the article " But Mueller did not charge or suggest charges for anyone on one of the biggest questions he faced: whether the Trump campaign worked with the Russians to influence the election".

That is what brought about the special counsel, but Muller went rouge and started digging into associates' personal dealings that are unrelated to the real investigation.

Cohen was indicted mainly for his previous personal finance deals that are unrelated whatsoever with Trump, the crime associated with Trump is the campaign laws violation about shush money payments to the porn star. And by the way, the porn star has come out to deny such tho. Even if that is true, you think that will warrant a jail term for ex-President. A violation many current US politicians are guilty of, but dishonestly denied being in control of the campaign funds.

You see for the tax evasion issue, he is just trying to exempt from further political nailing from NY prosecutors or adversaries who will do anything to nail a crime on him.

If the Fed wants to nail you will a crime, they will do anything to find that crime, if you think you are honest or holy in your dealings since birth, they will find out something to get at you, even things you do not have knowledge of, that is how powerful the Feds is.

When the Feds are out to get you, then you are good as done. Especially someone has complex as Trump, they know if they dig further they will definitely find something at the end of the tunnel.

It is not Trump being afraid, it's being cautious knowing how vicious these people are. If FBI and CIA operatives could falsify email documents and tamper or alter exculpatory evidence against Trump and get away with it, then they could do anything to get him.

I was about to reply you comprehensively, then I read the bolded. All I can do is laugh. Just say everyone hates Trump.

WHAT WAS THE FOCUS OF THE INVESTIGATION?
Mueller’s probe focused on Russian attempts to disrupt the 2016 election; possible coordination between associates of Trump and Russia; and whether financial crimes were committed by any of the president’s associates.

abbey621:


Now you're just reaching.....fiddling, tax avoidance? For this obodo America , this is America o, 90% of all citizens fiddle with their taxes from dependents to child tax credits. Even our African community over here are used to buying dependents for tax purposes. Abeg make we talk something else jaare

Are you suggesting that because everyone does it it's no more a crime or what?

Everyone might fiddle their tax and most might get away with it I'd reckon, but trump, in his shoot someone and get away with it thinking is now being hounded, and if found to have untowardly fiddled his taxes will be required to pay up.

Goodvibes007:

I was about to reply you then I read the bolded. All I can do is laugh. Just say everyone hates Trump.

That is what many pro-trumpers say. Somehow, many are blind to his deplorableness, but I bet if Buhari did the same they'd be up in arms.

budaatum:


Are you suggesting that because everyone does it it's no more a crime or what?

Everyone might fiddle their tax and most might get away with it I'd reckon, but trump, in his shoot someone and get away with it thinking is now being hounded, and if found to have untowardly fiddled his taxes will be required to pay up.

I'm suggesting it is not something anyone goes to court for, it is more of getting yourself audited and paying the penalty/fines, fiddling, errors, etc will never be missed by the IRS and let me just remind you, this guy is already being audited. Furthermore the keyword is 'IF', this is a big IF considering the amount of legal representation and years of experience Trump has with litigation.....They don't call him king of litigation for nothing you know

budaatum:

I'm sure he has fantastic accountants. I am including tax avoidance and fiddling records in my "hidden". I do not trust trump to be honest.

What do you mean budaatum. Trump is an honest man.

Someone like Trump will not pay millions of dollars to accountants to help tweak his financial records and possibly evade taxes. Same way he cried fraud in the elections but the courts found none.

Let's just say New York State Attorney General is wasting time by investigating claims that Trump’s company inflated the value of its assets to secure loans and get tax benefits.

Goodvibes007:

What do you mean budaatum. Trump is an honest man.

Someone like Trump will not pay millions of dollars to accountants to help tweak his financial records and possibly evade taxes. Same way he cried fraud in the elections but the courts found none.

Let's just say New York State Attorney General is wasting time by investigating claims that Trump’s company inflated the value of its assets to secure loans and get tax benefits.

Do I detect sarcasm?

It is my own opinion that trump is the most dishonest person to rule America in my lifetime which goes far back to Johnson.

budaatum:

Do I detect sarcasm?

It is my own opinion that trump is the most dishonest person to rule America in my lifetime which goes far back to Johnson.

Yes that was sarcasm.

Manhattan DA is also wasting time in conducting an extensive and protracted criminal conduct at the Trump Organization,” including potential tax, insurance and bank fraud relating to Trump’s habit of inflating and deflating his assets to suit his financial needs. They even wasted money in hiring Mark Pomerantz who helped in convicting former Gambino crime family boss John A. “Junior” Gotti and other mobsters in the 1990s. Unfortunately, the Trumps are not even half as smart as the Gambino mobsters.

The SCOTUS just left Trump hung out to dry.

abbey621:


I'm suggesting it is not something anyone goes to court for, ....

I do not believe you know what you talk about. Don't you get a day in court before going to jail?

Perhaps do some research before suggesting.

Wesley Snipes, who was jailed for failing to file his taxes, has claimed that Donald Trump avoided paying tax because of “who he knows”.

The Blade actor was sentenced to three years in prison in 2008 for “wilful failure to file $15m (£11.6m) of federal income tax returns”. He was released in 2013, serving two and a half years of his sentence.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/wesley-snipes-jailed-taxes-trump-david-goyer-strangled-blade-b1526077.html

drediamond:


Lol, you mean the same democrat-backed NYC grand jury that took the case to the supreme court. And urgently opened a criminal case against him immediately he contested for President as a Republican.

But the corrupt city officials looked otherwise all these years when Trump was dolling out money to democrat politicians—and he was also a NY registered democrat during these years.

If you can't see the vicious vendetta in all this then, I have nothing else to say.

They just opened his skeleton cupboard(if any—which we would soon find out), for him having the guts to dare go against the norm and the establishment that Trump himself has been a great beneficiary of.

It was not NY that took it to the Supreme Court, Trump took it there because he lost in all the lower courts and NY Attorneys despite winning in lower court unilaterally agreed not to enforce their order until the Supreme Court decides on Trump’s appeal.

You are out of depth here, give the matter a break, NY & NYC have been prosecuting Trump since the 1980s on tax invasions and shady real estate taxes....The State and the Fed had been auditing his taxes for years continuously and when he is caught, he settles out of court and repeat the same thing the following year, then settles again.

Had it been he was not President and foolishly tried to use Presidential immunity to prevent access to his taxes this time around, no body would have heard of it and like in the past, he would have long settled it....I definitely believe he will also settle this, he just felt he can get away with it because he is the President and have appointed ‘friendly’ judges in high places that will side with him.

Try some google and you will see the history of litigations against Trump from the State and City even during the period he was donating to both parties.

Leave Trump matter.

budaatum:

I do not believe you know what you talk about. Don't you get a day in court before going to jail?

Perhaps do some research before suggesting.

Wesley Snipes, who was jailed for failing to file his taxes, has claimed that Donald Trump avoided paying tax because of “who he knows”.

The Blade actor was sentenced to three years in prison in 2008 for “wilful failure to file $15m (£11.6m) of federal income tax returns”. He was released in 2013, serving two and a half years of his sentence.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/wesley-snipes-jailed-taxes-trump-david-goyer-strangled-blade-b1526077.html

Sounds familiar

budaatum:

I do not believe you know what you talk about. Don't you get a day in court before going to jail?

Perhaps do some research before suggesting.

Wesley Snipes, who was jailed for failing to file his taxes, has claimed that Donald Trump avoided paying tax because of “who he knows”.

The Blade actor was sentenced to three years in prison in 2008 for “wilful failure to file $15m (£11.6m) of federal income tax returns”. He was released in 2013, serving two and a half years of his sentence.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/wesley-snipes-jailed-taxes-trump-david-goyer-strangled-blade-b1526077.html

Failing to file taxes is the same as fiddling with the taxes in your mind? Wesley Snipes not only failed tro file taxes but when he was penalized and given a tax bill, he failed to pay it and instead chose to fight the IRS. Majority of those who are audited and penalized do not fight the IRS, they work out a payment plan and comply, once again I don't know what you're arguing here, please let's focus, compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges, abeg!

abbey621:


Failing to file taxes is the same as fiddling with the taxes in your mind?

I think you are wasting my time. An intelligent person would work out that fiddling taxes is worse than failure to file.

abbey621:


You keep shouting tax evasion and I keep laughing! I want to believe you're intelligent, so tell me do you honestly believe the IRS of thew United States would sit by all these years(Over a decade) and wait before prosecuting him. Remember the IRS are the ones holding his tax forms, they have all these infomation already, the only difference now is that it is available to the public. Y'all still don't get it, NO U.S PRESIDENT PAST OR PRESENT CAN EVER BE ALLOWED TO GO TO JAIL! They would rather eliminate him than have him in prison where he can reveal all the deep state secrets

I agreed with your premises that, the IRS have all his taxes and that, they would have gone after him if he was invading taxes.

You get to note that, paying your taxes in the US especially as a business is mainly out of trust....ie you tell IRS your revenue and expenses and base on that, your tax liabilities would be calculated. IRS does not go out and start finding info to see if you are telling the truth, they only know that you are evading taxes if they receive information from other party that contradict what you submitted.

In this case, it is not IRS that is prosecuting him, it is the NY Attorney General and they have vast amount of information, access than IRS....they can collaborate information and seek information from any and different parties that you have conduct business with and IRS can’t do those.

budaatum:

I think you are wasting my time. An intelligent person would work out that fiddling taxes is worse than failure to file.

Too bad intelligence is not what I would associate with your reasoning, failing to file taxes attracts automatic fines/penalities as long as you have tax liabilities, this is US tax law and non negotiable, whereas fiddling is subjective and open to interpretation so guess which ones you have a better chance of defending? Come on, I'm sure for someone so intelligent, you can figure it out but you're right we're just going back and forth so let's end this tomfoolery, shall we!

linearity:


I agreed with your premises that, the IRS have all his taxes and that, they would have gone after him if he was invading taxes.

You get to note that, paying your taxes in the US especially as a business is mainly out of trust....ie you tell IRS your revenue and expenses and base on that, your tax liabilities would be calculated. IRS does not go out and start finding info to see if you are telling the truth, they only know that you are evading taxes if they receive information from other party that contradict what you submitted.

In this case, it is not IRS that is prosecuting him, it is the NY Attorney General and they have vast amount of information, access than IRS....they can collaborate information and seek information from any and different parties that you have conduct business with and IRS can’t do those.

I would agree with you if not that you overlooked one crucial detail! THE GUY IS ALREADY BEING AUDITED! No one under an audit can escape scrutiny, it is not possible for IRS to just go by what you said, when you're audited they get receipts, testimonies, third party verifications etc. If you are familiar with the IRS, you would know no state justice dept has more resources than them when it comes to tax cases, there's a reason the IRS is feared more than the FBI or any other agency in the USA.

abbey621:


Too bad intelligence is not what I would associate with your reasoning, failing to file taxes attracts automatic fines/penalities as long as you have tax liabilities, this is US tax law and non negotiable, whereas fiddling is subjective and open to interpretation so guess which ones you have a better chance of defending? Come on, I'm sure for someone so intelligent, you can figure it out but you're right we're just going back and forth so let's end this tomfoolery, shall we!

We are not arguing about "which ones you have a better chance of defending" abbey, but about which is perceived to be the greater crime!

So which is it, failing to file or fiddling?