SpaceAngel:
From the Bible, it is said that the wages of sin is death. This tells us that no matter how one classifies sin, they are equal in the eyes of God but may not be equal in the eyes of man.

All these Bible quoters way no Sabi anything

Doesn't the Bible also say

1John 5:17
New International Version
All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death

Kobojunkie:
Having knowledge of good and bad is not Truth as I used it in my post, and it is certainly not the Truth that Jesus Christ was referring to. And according to Jesus Christ, you first need to take the steps towards living above sin before the Spirit of God then comes in to lift you higher above sin.
When Jesus Christ was speaking to the Jews who were sinners, this is what He said...

Note that nowhere in that conversation does Jesus Christ state that you must have the Holy Spirit first if you want to accept and obey His teachings - In fact, the Spirit of God is not mentioned at all in that conversation Jesus Christ has with the people.

That's true.. You must have a willing heart to continuously accept and obey God's word through the help of the Holy Spirit in order to be free from being slave to sin.
Thanks for the enlightenment

FirmTR:
That's true.. You must have a willing heart to continuously accept and obey God's word through the help of the Holy Spirit in order to be free from being slave to sin.
Thanks for the enlightenment

Again, Jesus Christ did not say anything about the Spirit of God when He called on you to first accept(trust) and obey His teachings/commandments. I know many of you have been lied to, and so believe that you need "special powers" called the Spirit of God in order to obey God. Well, I am here to tell you that your ignorance is the reason why you fell for such an obvious lie in the first place.

Case and point: Abel and Seth, both of them were born to Adam, the man that God condemned to Death for His sin against God. You know the story. God gave Adam one commandment, and Adam in His foolishness chose to disobey that one commandment. God cast Adam out of the garden of Eden and also cursed him to live in suffering all his days.
Adam had children, one of them Abel, whose twin brother Cain eventually killed. And then later Adam had Seth and some other children. Somehow that lie that man has a sin nature forgot to fall on Abel and Seth though because they both obeyed God even in all that suffering that was their life and God they were justified by God for their obedience to His commands, statutes, and rules. Abel and Seth did not have a special power called the "Holy Spirit" to help them obey God, yet they did it and are recorded to have lived righteous lives.

If Abel and Seth could obey God, why do you need the "Holy Spirit" in order to do the same thing they did?

Jesus Christ is telling you that what you need is to know the Truth(His Teachings/commandments) and for you to accept and obey them.

John 8 vs 31-47
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31. So Jesus said to the Jews who believed in him, “If you continue to accept and obey my teaching, you are really my followers.
32. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
33. They answered, “We are Abraham’s descendants. And we have never been slaves. So why do you say that we will be free?”
34. Jesus said, “The truth is, everyone who sins is a slave—a slave to sin.
35. A slave does not stay with a family forever. But a son belongs to the family forever.
36. So if the Son makes you free, you are really free.

What you need to ask yourself is why you reject what Jesus Christ Himself tells you that you need to do in order to break that bondage you have with sin on your own?

Kobojunkie:
Again, Jesus Christ did not say anything about the Spirit of God when He called on you to first accept(trust) and obey His teachings/commandments. I know many of you have been lied to, and so believe that you need "special powers" called the Spirit of God in order to obey God. Well, I am here to tell you that your ignorance is the reason why you fell for such an obvious lie in the first place.

Case and point: Abel and Seth, both of them were born to Adam, the man that God condemned to Death for His sin against God. You know the story. God gave Adam one commandment, and Adam in His foolishness chose to disobey that one commandment. God cast Adam out of the garden of Eden and also cursed him to live in suffering all his days.
Adam had children, one of them Abel, whose twin brother Cain eventually killed. And then later Adam had Seth and some other children. Somehow that lie that man has a sin nature forgot to fall on Abel and Seth though because they both obeyed God even in all that suffering that was their life and God they were justified by God for their obedience to His commands, statutes, and rules. Abel and Seth did not have a special power called the "Holy Spirit" to help them obey God, yet they did it and are recorded to have lived righteous lives.

If Abel and Seth could obey God, why do you need the "Holy Spirit" in order to do the same thing they did?

Jesus Christ is telling you that what you need is to know the Truth(His Teachings/commandments) and for you to accept and obey them.

What you need to ask yourself is why you reject what Jesus Christ Himself tells you that you need to do in order to break that bondage you have with sin on your own?

Like I said earlier, with our willingness to be obedient to God's word, the Holy Spirit helps us to overcome sin amongst others. On our own, we can't do it.

Study John 14:26, 16:13

FirmTR:

Like I said earlier, with our willingness to be obedient to God's word, the Holy Spirit helps us to overcome sin amongst others. On our own, we can't do it.

Study John 14:26, 16:13

picking verses from here and there does not negate what has previously been said on this, you know that right?

For a long time, even as an atheist, i learned to die to my self and keep the 10 commandments. I did it then because I wanted to become a better person. It was dawned on me that the claim that you need the Holy Spirit in order to obey the commandments was nothing but a lie Christian's tell.

It wasn't until many years later that I discovered, after becoming a believer, that even Jesus Christ never said the Spirit of God is first needed to obey the commandments. He never said that and neither did God Himself- that lie is all based on doctrines and traditions of men passed down by men.

Kobojunkie:
picking verses from here and there does not negate what has previously been said on this, you know that right?

For a long time, even as an atheist, i learned to die to my self and keep the 10 commandments. I did it then because I wanted to become a better person. It was dawned on me that the claim that you need the Holy Spirit in order to obey the commandments was nothing but a lie Christian's tell.

It wasn't until many years later that I discovered, after becoming a believer, that even Jesus Christ never said the Spirit of God is first needed to obey the commandments. He never said that and neither did God Himself- that lie is all based on doctrines and traditions of men passed down by men.

We are saying same thing na, don't get me wrong.
When we desire or dedicate ourselves to do the things of God, then will the Holy Spirit come in to intercede for us.

Obviously the holy ghost forgot them when he/she/it was TEACHING you or they failed to ask holy ghost to TEACH them.
Please TEACH them so that they can be saved like you!

freshboi88:

All these Bible quoters way no Sabi anything
Doesn't the Bible also say
1John 5:17
New International Version
All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death

FirmTR:


We are saying same thing na, don't get me wrong.
When we desire or dedicate ourselves to do the things of God, then will the Holy Spirit come in to intercede for us.

No, we are not saying the same thing at all.

According to Jesus Christ, you must show yourself worthy of Him before He comes to live inside of you, and this by accepting(trusting) and obeying His teachings/commandments.

Sin is disobedience of the teachings/commandments of God. And how do you not sin? By accepting and obeying those very commandments. When you say one needs the Spirit of God first in order to stop sinning, you call God/Jesus Christ a liar because you deny His Truth which is that you can choose to stop sinning by accepting(Trusting) His Truth and obeying it.

Kobojunkie:
No, we are not saying the same thing at all.

According to Jesus Christ, you must show yourself worthy of Him before He comes to live inside of you, and this by accepting(trusting) and obeying His teachings/commandments.

Sin is disobedience of the teachings/commandments of God. And how do you not sin? By accepting and obeying those very commandments. When you say one needs the Spirit of God first in order to stop sinning, you call God/Jesus Christ a liar because you deny His Truth which is that you can choose to stop sinning by accepting(Trusting) His Truth and obeying it.

Alright, thank you very much..

FirmTR:

Alright, thank you very much..

Visit the examples of Abel, and Seth, both of them sons to a condemned man called Adam, in the Bible, whom many of you like to believe you inherited what you call a "sin nature" from.

Abel and Seth, had no Spirit of God in them, but both men, chose in their circumstances, to trust and obey God's commandment , where their father, Adam , failed, and so were declared righteous by God Himself for their choice.

Now, since in Abel and Seth we learn one very important lesson and that is that there is no such thing as a "sin nature". Instead, there is Man's will and then God's Will, where Man's desire to please Himself results in His elevating his ego over that of God's whereas when the same Man turns his ego over to God instead, God's Will is done.

Kobojunkie:
Visit the examples of Abel, and Seth, both of them sons to a condemned man called Adam, in the Bible, whom many of you like to believe you inherited what you call a "sin nature" from.

Abel and Seth, had no Spirit of God in them, but both men, chose in their circumstances, to trust and obey God's commandment , where their father, Adam , failed, and so were declared righteous by God Himself for their choice.

Now, since in Abel and Seth we learn one very important lesson and that is that there is no such thing as a "sin nature". Instead, there is Man's will and then God's Will, where Man's desire to please Himself results in His elevating his ego over that of God's whereas when the same Man turns his ego over to God instead, God's Will is done.

What I know is that there is no one without sin or that hasn't sinned.

FirmTR:

What I know is that there is no one without sin or that hasn't sinned.

So you are saying that Jesus Christ lied when He said that those who accept(trust) and obey His teachings/commandments are set free from slavery to sin?

Make up your mind about Him! Do you believe He is th Truth of God or do you only believe what you want of what He teaches?

In Catholic Tradition they are not all equal but are all still sin.

This means that they can all take you to hell yes, but it takes more remorse for some sins to be forgiven over some.

Pecuman:
In Catholic Tradition they are not all equal but are all still sin.

This means that they can all take you to hell yes, but it takes more remorse for some sins to be forgiven over some.

it takes more remorse for some sins..so God does not forgive your sins if you do not harboured enough remorse in your heart... where do you get such crapola from?

Kobojunkie:
it takes more remorse for some sins..so God does not forgive your sins if you do not harboured enough remorse in your heart... where do you get such crapola from?

I am not explaining it well, maybe ask a priest for a better explanation.

But Catholic tradition is that Sins aren't equal, the worst of them are moral sins (murder is in this group) and I think those will get you into hell for sure while lesser sins depending on the amount can get you into purgatory. (Assuming you are not forgiven of them before death).

Kobojunkie:
So you are saying that Jesus Christ lied when He said that those who accept(trust) and obey His teachings/commandments are set free from slavery to sin?

Make up your mind about Him! Do you believe He is th Truth of God or do you only believe what you want of what He teaches?

If we'd not been in the captivity of sin(by default) , then what are we being freed from when we do that which God commands?

We are all born sinners
It's only when we obey His teachings that we will be set free.

FirmTR:

If we'd not been in the captivity of sin(by default) , then what are we being freed from when we do that which God commands?

We are all born sinners
It's only when we obey His teachings that we will be set free.

We were not all born sinners... sin happens the first moment you choose to obey your will over God's Will and I am not certain a one month old can comprehend that enough to make such a choice talk less of a baby still in its mother's womb.

We are slaves to sin by choice to sin.I.e.when we choose to put our will over God's will, and we are freed by choice-no default mode.

Kobojunkie:
We were not all born sinners... sin happens the first moment you choose to obey your will over God's Will and I am not certain a one month old can comprehend that enough to make such a choice talk less of a baby still in its mother's womb.

We are slaves to sin by choice to sin.I.e.when we choose to put our will over God's will, and we are freed by choice-no default mode.

If you exempt a one month old child for not being able to make a decision, can we now say Adam and Eve are justified for eating the forbidden fruit?

For before they ate the fruit, they couldn't differentiate good from evil.

FirmTR:

If you exempt a one month old child for not being able to make a decision, can we now say Adam and Eve are justified for eating the forbidden fruit?

For before they ate the fruit, they couldn't differentiate good from evil.

Were Afam and Eve a month old as far as understanding and ability to obey commands given them at the time they reportedly chose to disobey God?

They couldn't differentiate good from evil yet when God commanded Adam to name His creation before that Adam knew to obey?

Kobojunkie:
Were Afam and Eve a month old as far as understanding and ability to obey commands given them at the time they reportedly chose to disobey God?

They couldn't differentiate good from evil yet when God commanded Adam to name His creation before that Adam knew to obey?

That they knew nothing good or evil, the Bible said that, not me.
So, they had ability to understand and obey, but not knowledge of good and evil..
I just think they were naive

FirmTR:

That they knew nothing good or evil, the Bible said that, not me.
So, they had ability to understand and obey, but not knowledge of good and evil..
I just think they were naive

A child does not know nothing of good and evil but still knows how to obey simple commands given. So to suggest that one first needs to know of good and evil in order to obey commands given is bullsheet logic.

Secondly, nowhere in the bible are you infact told that Adam and Eve knew nothing. They understood enough to obey commands as I already pointed out in my previous post.

Kobojunkie:
A child does not know nothing of good and evil but still knows how to obey simple commands given. So to suggest that one first needs to know of good and evil in order to obey commands given is bullsheet logic.

Secondly, nowhere in the bible are you infact told that Adam and Eve knew nothing. They understood enough to obey commands as I already pointed out in my previous post.

I didn't say they knew nothing. I said they couldn't differentiate good from evil.
Thus, how would they know that disobedience to God's commands is bad(evil).

And if the child does contrary to your commands, you will punish the child..

Do you know what it means not to have knowledge of good and evil? Put yourself in that position for a minute. That means you will believe anything

FirmTR:

I didn't say they knew nothing. I said they couldn't differentiate good from evil.
Thus, how would they know that disobedience to God's commands is bad(evil).

And if the child does contrary to your commands, you will punish the child..

Do you know what it means not to have knowledge of good and evil? Put yourself in that position for a minute. That means you will believe anything

Again, Adam is recorded to have been able to obey at least command given to him by God. By that we can conclude that the basic ability to obey commands was already installed in the person of Adam was the point of His creation.
He didn't need to first have the ability or knowledge of disobedience in Him in order to obey commands so He was declared good by God.
The moment Adam chose to disobey , what happened was his ego became the main subject in his story , when his ego was meant to take a back seat to God's plan.

So this wasn't a matter of good and evil or our supposed knowledge of it today...knowledge of these things have "grown" over time to what you have in your head today. If you had been born about 400 years ago in, say western Nigeria, about 70% of what you believe to be evil today would have been good to you then.

Kobojunkie:
Again, Adam is recorded to have been able to obey at least command given to him by God. By that we can conclude that the basic ability to obey commands was already installed in the person of Adam was the point of His creation.
He didn't need to first have the ability or knowledge of disobedience in Him in order to obey commands so He was declared good by God.
The moment Adam chose to disobey , what happened was his ego became the main subject in his story , when his ego was meant to take a back seat to God's plan.

So this wasn't a matter of good and evil or our supposed knowledge of it today...knowledge of these things have "grown" over time to what you have in your head today. If you had been born about 400 years ago in, say western Nigeria, about 70% of what you believe to be evil today would have been good to you then.

Well, I don't bother myself with religious matters, as our relationship with God is personal. I believe that He who created us has a reason.

All the same, thank you very much..