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Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere - Culture (57) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere (33810 Views)

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Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by gregyboy(m): 12:30pm On May 13
KingOKON:
.


You cannot give what you don't have, TAO11 abi TAO12 de form historian, let her form history for her corner outside her enclave she be JJC.
The others are on ego tripping ride trying to create something out of nothing

She nor dey form any historian na prof of copy and paste
Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by gregyboy(m): 12:31pm On May 13
TAO11:


Another heap of crap as is to be expected.

You are the Yoruba equivalent of gregyboy.

You are a disgrace.


Ogun bend that your useless mouth

1 Like

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by macof(m): 12:52pm On May 13
Olu317:
Yorubas such as una type make me laugh because you are uneducated linguistically. You people are the set of ignorants that make people assume Yoruba as twisting her oral history. No wonder,Rev Ajayi crowder, who is your mentor and hero did serious damage to support una nonentity ideology of yoruba being originated from West Africa; Present day Nigeria. Lol

On the subject matter, kindly help me with any international standard of transcribing the 'i' of Yoruba if it falls within proper Yoruba pronunciation . ìrú ìrú ọbẹ̀ gbẹ̀gírí angry cheesy

Plainly, International Phonetic Alphabet(IPA)is a system of transcribing the sounds of languages which consists of some Latin and Greek letters (the pattern Yoruba copied) and a variety of additional symbols and diacritics,has shown that the objective of trancribing is to represent each recognisable sound in a unique fashion. The IPA was developed at the end of the last century; the acronym stands for International Phonetic Alphabet. Examples:

Yoruba: 'i', being pronunce as e doesnt fall within the correct accent as be. Instead itis 'bi'

Standardly 'i' is pronunced as 'ai'


1.Hi/hi=
Pronunciation
IPA: /haɪ/

2. By=
Pronunciation
(British, America) enPR: bī, IPA: /baɪ/

bi-=
Pronunciation
IPA: /baɪ-/, /bɪ-/
Example

Pronunciation
(RP, GA) IPA: /aɪ/
(Southern American English) IPA: /aː/
(AU, New Zealand) IPA: /ɑe/

Ignorant TA O11 learn!Come to Benin Republic to learn more from Yoruba's scholars without your copy and paste wannabe tipatipa pseudo Nigeria's Yoruba.No wonder Nigeria's Yoruba has so many errors. Meanwhile, oga at the top combine together to help out too with the sound . I shall turn your knowledge into shred before other Yorubas.Egocentric empty barrels.........!!!

Mr. Man shut up and stop ranting. Focus on one point.
We have not finished your kèrè nonsense you are jumping to start another senseless and incoherent argument from nowhere grin

1 Like

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by KingOKON: 1:08pm On May 13
gregyboy:


She nor dey form any historian na prof of copy and paste
.

She even de try but this Olu317 na real king of MUMU I believe he is the Michael Jackson of Yoruba land, in fact worse.
The complex wey de worry him na from Jupiter e come
Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by KingOKON: 1:19pm On May 13
Olu317:
Yorubas such as una type make me laugh because you are uneducated linguistically. You people are the set of ignorants that make people assume Yoruba as twisting her oral history. No wonder,Rev Ajayi crowder, who is your mentor and hero did serious damage to support una nonentity ideology of yoruba being originated from West Africa; Present day Nigeria. Lol

On the subject matter, kindly help me with any international standard of transcribing the 'i' of Yoruba if it falls within proper Yoruba pronunciation . ìrú ìrú ọbẹ̀ gbẹ̀gírí angry cheesy

Plainly, International Phonetic Alphabet(IPA)is a system of transcribing the sounds of languages which consists of some Latin and Greek letters (the pattern Yoruba copied) and a variety of additional symbols and diacritics,has shown that the objective of trancribing is to represent each recognisable sound in a unique fashion. The IPA was developed at the end of the last century; the acronym stands for International Phonetic Alphabet. Examples:

Yoruba: 'i', being pronunce as e doesnt fall within the correct accent as be. Instead itis 'bi'

Standardly 'i' is pronunced as 'ai'


1.Hi/hi=
Pronunciation
IPA: /haɪ/

2. By=
Pronunciation
(British, America) enPR: bī, IPA: /baɪ/

bi-=
Pronunciation
IPA: /baɪ-/, /bɪ-/
Example

Pronunciation
(RP, GA) IPA: /aɪ/
(Southern American English) IPA: /aː/
(AU, New Zealand) IPA: /ɑe/

Ignorant TA O11 learn!Come to Benin Republic to learn more from Yoruba's scholars without your copy and paste wannabe tipatipa pseudo Nigeria's Yoruba.No wonder Nigeria's Yoruba has so many errors. Meanwhile, oga at the top combine together to help out too with the sound . I shall turn your knowledge into shred before other Yorubas.Egocentric empty barrels.........!!!
.

Even the English have variations Londoners, Newcastle, Midlands and Manchester all pronounce differently
You this idoiTA! Are you using the vowels and consonants developed by your colonial masters after they have latinized your language to tell me there is a STANDARD Yoruba?
Who spoke this standard Yoruba b4 the arrival of the British and where is it being spoken?
Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by fregeneh(m): 1:37pm On May 13
But if (ala)means white cloth in Yoruba and (ala)in obatala means white cloth also, then we can agree that obatala can also be interpreted as white or purity.

kiss
TAO11:
Anyways, I’m glad you’ve taken correction to most of the points I pointed out to you, especially your funny-cum-weird mention of backward entrance into the Ka’aba.

Oh really? I am ignorant of your imaginations of course.

First of all, the word is NOT àlá (“àlá” means “dream”). The word you’re aiming at is alá — and it is not a word that can not stand on its own. It is a prefix.

[Check your 1913 CMS’s Dictionary of Yoruba Language (which you attached) to confirm this free education I’m offering.]

Secondly, alá is a prefix equivalent to oní; and it means “one who has”).

This prefix is found in words like alá-àfin (“the one who has the palace”), while its equivalent would be oní-àfin (“the one who has the palace”).

Moreover, no Yoruba has Alá has a surname. Alá is not a word on its own. It is a prefix. Also, “Alá” is not the same as God, it is a prefix.

Alá would mean anything depending on the base that follows it. For example, alá-àìmọ̀ means “one who has ignorance”. Such does not describe God.

In sum, àlà (“white cloth”) is an entirely different word from alá (“one who has”), while each of these is entirely different from àlá (“dream”) . None of these words means God in any way, shape, or form.

The “ala” in Obatala does not mean “purity”. It means “white cloth”. Check out my attachment (the 1913 Dictionary of Yoruba Language) for the meaning of “purity”.

Lol. The screenshot you attached confirms everything I’ve said. Àlà means “white cloth”.

Your own screenshot (the first one which is a recognized Yoruba dictionary) confirms that I was right.

Your second screenshot, although meaningless, is also sourceless. The fact that it is typed, in pdf form, and screenshoted means nothing.
Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by TAO11(f): 1:43pm On May 13
fregeneh:
But if (ala)means white cloth in Yoruba and (ala)in obatala means white cloth also, then we can agree that obatala can also be interpreted as white or purity. kiss
Hmmm!

Does that NOT sound like unceremoniously discarding the “Oba” and the “t’ “ ??

If we must, then that would beg the question of “why must we??”

Moreover, “White” (by itself) is equivalent to “funfun,” NOT “Obatala”.

Similarly, “Purity” (by itself) is equivalent to “mimo,” etc. NOT “Obatala”.

Cheers!

3 Likes

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by gregyboy(m): 1:44pm On May 13
KingOKON:
.

She even de try but this Olu317 na real king of MUMU I believe he is the Michael Jackson of Yoruba land, in fact worse.
The complex wey de worry him na from Jupiter e come


Lol, leave that guy e dey help me dey tackle the bigger lier tao11


That tao11 they shift goal post anyhow to suite her lies

She as she change Oduduwa from a skydiving king to an indigene of ife
Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by fregeneh(m): 2:26pm On May 13
One can likened white cloth to purity na.don't you think?

TAO11:
Hmmm!

Does that NOT sound like unceremoniously discarding the “Oba” and the “t’ “ ??

If we must, then that would beg the question of “why must we??”

Moreover, “White” (by itself) is equivalent to “funfun,” NOT “Obatala”.

Similarly, “Purity” (by itself) is equivalent to “mimo,” etc. NOT “Obatala”.

Cheers!

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by TAO11(f): 2:56pm On May 13
fregeneh:
One can likened white cloth to purity na.don't you think?
Yeah one can be creative like that. Just like “white board,” “snow,” etc. can be “likened” to “purity”.

But if we’re asking what the word actually says, then we must be honest enough (not creative) to admit that the name “Obatala” doesn’t by itself say that.

Its etymology is generally acclaimed to be “oba t’ ala”. IF that’s indeed the case, then we can’t simply discard some words, and unceremoniously reinterpret others.

In other words, we can’t simply ignore “oba,” and “ti,” as well as skip the primary fact that “ala” is equivalent to “white cloth”.

Cheers!
—————
PS:
Personally, I have my reservations for the widely held etymological derivation from “oba t’ ala”.

But the point is, IF this widely held derivation is indeed the case, then my foregoing comments stand true.

Peace!

3 Likes 2 Shares

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by DECLAN2015(m): 4:32pm On May 13
ogbonti:




exactly - those fronting the coronation of Tsola do not mean well for the Kingdom

Prince Tsola was born to then Prince Godwin Toritseju Emiko (who later became Ogiame Atuwatse) in 1984. The law disqualifying Tsola has existed for centuries but was only officially documented in the law of old Bendel State in 1979 - That is 5 years before Prince Tsola was born. So his father, Atuwatse II who read LL.B and LL.M in London UK, a very smart lawyer knew what he was getting into when he got married to a yoruba woman and had kids by her. He knew his direct offspring will not be King after him YET - he went ahead and did what he wanted. Why are we now burdened by this whole mess? grin


The edict should be re-edicted.
It sounds absurd
Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by Olu317(m): 5:07pm On May 13
KingOKON:
.

Even the English have variations Londoners, Newcastle, Midlands and Manchester all pronounce differently
You this idoiTA! Are you using the vowels and consonants developed by your colonial masters after they have latinized your language to tell me there is a STANDARD Yoruba?
Who spoke this standard Yoruba b4 the arrival of the British and where is it being spoken?
Lol. Just imagine your reckless statement? Honestly, you lack English language's comprehensionthat picked . Do you not know Roman-Latin orthography ? You even place the interjection wrongly.

Well, there is nothing like standard Yoruba. Although you cant understand this is because Yoruba language isn't your ancestral mother tongue's language and you are only privilege to speak it only by chance,if you do.

Mind you ,Mr. ignorant, even if TAO11 and I are only juxtapositing on different ideology,which is normal among scholars doesnt mean her information on Yoruba-Edo is false. Mumu speed off.
Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by davidnazee: 5:14pm On May 13
gregyboy:



Lol, leave that guy e dey help me dey tackle the bigger lier tao11


That tao11 they shift goal post anyhow to suite her lies

She as she change Oduduwa from a skydiving king to an indigene of ife

The reason yoruba revisionists change Oduduwa to native of Ife na to counter Edo claim that Oduduwa is from Edo.. all na damage control.
Sensible people know skydiver and trekker from 8000km/50yrs+ distance is absurd. When Edo claim surface and seemed more reasonable Tao11 and her people started their damage control theory of Oduduwa from ife..
Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by TAO11(f): 5:30pm On May 13
davidnazee:
The reason yoruba revisionists change Oduduwa to native of Ife na to counter Edo claim that Oduduwa is from Edo.. all na damage control.
Sensible people know skydiver and trekker from 8000km/50yrs+ distance is absurd. When Edo claim surface and seemed more reasonable Tao11 and her people started their damage control theory of Oduduwa from ife..
1880s Benin account :— Ekaladerhan lived all his life in his kingdom of Ughoton, thus he is NOT Oodua.

1903 Benin account :— Ekaladerhan lived all his life in his kingdom of Ughoton, thus he is NOT Oodua.

1940s Benin account :— Ekaladerhan lived all his life in his kingdom of Ughoton, thus he is NOT Oodua.

1950s Benin account :— Ekaladerhan is NOT one and the same person as Oodua.

Suddenly in the 1970s Benin account :— Ekaladerhan is one and the same person as Oodua.

The inferiority complex and fraud is as glaring as the mid-day sun.

6 Likes 3 Shares

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by davidnazee: 5:49pm On May 13
TAO11:

1880s Benin account :— Ekaladerhan lived all his life in his kingdom of Ughoton, thus he is NOT Oodua.

1903 Benin account :— Ekaladerhan lived all his life in his kingdom of Ughoton, thus he is NOT Oodua.

1940s Benin account :— Ekaladerhan lived all his life in his kingdom of Ughoton, thus he is NOT Oodua.

1950s Benin account :— Ekaladerhan is NOT one and the same person as Oodua.

Suddenly in the 1970s Benin account:— Ekaladerhan is one and the same person as Oodua.

The inferiority complex and fraud is as glaring as the mid-day sun sun.


And in the 1980s your revisionist story of Oduduwa is ife indigene came out. Your damage control theory is a fail.
Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by TAO11(f): 6:04pm On May 13
davidnazee:
And in the 1980s your revisionist story of Oduduwa is ife indigene came out. Your damage control theory is a fail.
Revisionism is:
When Benin-originated historical accounts said “A” from 1880s to 1969; and then U-turned suddenly to say “Z ” from the 1970s. cheesy

Revisionism is NOT:
When Yoruba-originated historical accounts were SILENT in writing; and then were documented from the 1970s (or earlier).

Catch the difference, dullard? Good boy.

No thank me, thank God. cheesy

5 Likes 2 Shares

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by KingOKON: 6:31pm On May 13
Olu317:
Lol. Just imagine? Honestly, you lack English language'that picked Roman-Latin. You even place the interjection wrongly.

Well, there is nothing like standard Yoruba. Although you cant understand this is because Yoruba language isn't yoruba in origin and you are only privilege to speak it if it is by chance.

Mind you ,Mr. ignorant, even if TAO11 and I are only juxtapositing on different ideology,which is normal among scholars doesnt mean her information on Yoruba-Edo is false. Mumu speed off.
.

Scholars of what? Linguistic I guess, you are super useless
Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by macof(m): 7:27pm On May 13
TAO11:
Yeah one can be creative like that. Just like “white board,” “snow,” etc. can be “likened” to “purity”.

But if we’re asking what the word actually says, then we must be honest enough (not creative) to admit that the name “Obatala” doesn’t by itself say that.

Its etymology is generally acclaimed to be “oba t’ ala”. IF that’s indeed the case, then we can’t simply discard some words, and unceremoniously reinterpret others.

In other words, we can’t simply ignore “oba,” and “ti,” as well as skip the primary fact that “ala” is equivalent to “white cloth”.

Cheers!
—————
PS:
Personally, I have my reservations for the widely held etymological derivation from “oba t’ ala”.

But the point is, IF this widely held derivation is indeed the case, then my foregoing comments stand true.

Peace!

I also have personal reservations. Part of my working theory on the name's - la ending
Just as I do for the word "Orisa"
This isn't the thread for this conversation though

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by TAO11(f): 7:32pm On May 13
macof:
I also have personal reservations. Part of my working theory on the name's - la ending
Just as I do for the word "Orisa"
This isn't the thread for this conversation though
Exactly! A like-mind is here.

3 Likes 1 Share

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by TAO11(f): 7:38pm On May 13
My Position:

(1) “Ọbàtálá” (from: “Ọba-Ìdẹ̀ta-Ńlá”) = “Great King of ìdẹ̀ta”. (Was deified as Òrìṣà-Ńlá. He ruled Ìdẹ̀ta).

(2) “Òrìṣà” (from: “Òrìṣẹ̀”) = “The Source of Emergence”. (Applies originally to God Almighty himself, and later to the deified heroes & heroines).

Cc: macof

7 Likes 2 Shares

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by ogbonti: 7:57pm On May 13
DECLAN2015:



The edict should be re-edicted.
It sounds absurd


Oh yes OOO - I support you, every law we dont like - let us just change it. Someday too, the King must work to be fed and pay everyone to sing and dance for him... It is coming, trust me. Since we do not want to obey any rule we dont like, why obey any King we dont like? grin
Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by davidnazee: 8:36pm On May 13
TAO11:


Revisionism is NOT:
When Yoruba-originated historical accounts were SILENT in writing; and then were documented from the 1970s (or earlier).

Catch the difference, dullard? Good boy.

No thank me, thank God. cheesy

Idiot, you can continue lying to yourself.. Yoruba historical/traditional accounts were also SILENT in words and oral tradition till after 1980s. Your damage control theory came out late and it failed.
Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by TAO11(f): 8:45pm On May 13
Binis go through sorrow and agony on a daily basis.

~ Courtesy: Tao. cheesy [Evil Laughter]

davidnazee:
Idiot, you can continue lying to yourself..Yoruba historical/traditional accounts were also SILENT in words and oral tradition till after 1980s. Your damage control theory came out late and it failed.
Thanks for proving that you’re embarrassed by your Bini dadies’ & mommies’ frauds, by deleting that part of my comment. cheesy

Thanks for also proving to us that you’re incapable of comprehending English sentences as per the Yoruba’s accounts. grin

Unfortunately for you, I can’t type in Edo language. cheesy

Cheers!

5 Likes 1 Share

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by fregeneh(m): 12:27am On May 14
OK my distinguish professor, ba'rka de sa'rla

TAO11:
Yeah one can be creative like that. Just like “white board,” “snow,” etc. can be “likened” to “purity”.

But if we’re asking what the word actually says, then we must be honest enough (not creative) to admit that the name “Obatala” doesn’t by itself say that.

Its etymology is generally acclaimed to be “oba t’ ala”. IF that’s indeed the case, then we can’t simply discard some words, and unceremoniously reinterpret others.

In other words, we can’t simply ignore “oba,” and “ti,” as well as skip the primary fact that “ala” is equivalent to “white cloth”.

Cheers!
—————
PS:
Personally, I have my reservations for the widely held etymological derivation from “oba t’ ala”.

But the point is, IF this widely held derivation is indeed the case, then my foregoing comments stand true.

Peace!

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by YungMillionaire: 2:20am On May 14
This is an interesting thread. I really enjoyed reading through some of the comments.

By the way, as for the origin of Itsekiris we originate from Ogun and Ondo states not Edo. We are a Yoruba group not a Edoid group even though we share some cultural connections with Edo due to proximity. I find it insulting when outsiders get this wrong and still claim to be right. You are not Itsekiri but you are trying to tell us who we are against our will. Who does that?! This nonsense is part of the reason why we jettisoned that useless ban on Yoruba mothers for Olu. We respect Edos and the Oba of Bini but they must stop overstepping. The Bini plot to deny that young man the throne was disgraceful and the Oba ended up having eggs all over his face. You will just end up radicalizing many Itsekiris who are very pro-Yoruba. Even the ones who are not were very irritated by that bull-crap the Bini royals were trying to pull.

Don't quote me with nonsense. Take this as an advice from a friend and nothing more.

9 Likes

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by gregyboy(m): 9:12am On May 15
YungMillionaire:
This is an interesting thread. I really enjoyed reading through some of the comments.

By the way, as for the origin of Itsekiris we originate from Ogun and Ondo states not Edo. We are a Yoruba group not a Edoid group even though we share some cultural connections with Edo due to proximity. I find it insulting when outsiders get this wrong and still claim to be right. You are not Itsekiri but you are trying to tell us who we are against our will. Who does that?! This nonsense is part of the reason why we jettisoned that useless ban on Yoruba mothers for Olu. We respect Edos and the Oba of Bini but they must stop overstepping. The Bini plot to deny that young man the throne was disgraceful and the Oba ended up having eggs all over his face. You will just end up radicalizing many Itsekiris who are very pro-Yoruba. Even the ones who are not were very irritated by that bull-crap the Bini royals were trying to pull.

Don't quote me with nonsense. Take this as an advice from a friend and nothing more.

Clean your mouth you have rubbish on it


No one said Itshekiris are edos


We wont even accept them yoruba is dumping site for any minor groups who feels insecure

But history had made we edos secured unlike other minorities

The royal house of itsekiri is edo and must have edo bloods flowing in it

The royal house of itsekiris allowed mothers from both itsekiri and benins to contend for the royal stool

They didnt allow other part of edos reasons why they shouldnt allow other Yorubas too


I know youre not itsekii, youre one boy from ogbomosho who is smoking some expired shit
And wanna try the potency on Nairaland

1 Like

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by Inspirelove: 8:57pm On May 15
gregyboy:




Say what you know stop circulating that oromiyan myth that holds no historical stands

But a false history coined after Nigeria amalgamation to unite bini and Yorubas into one ancestry for political benefit....


What is your point gan ? u have done no research work even if u are a graduate i doubt u did you project by yourself? what ordercity to discredit history that has been in existence even before your parents were born.

1 Like

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by Inspirelove: 9:31pm On May 15
Yoruba and Bini are distance cousins is just the fact that no one can dispute however, we might not want to have a relationship with each other but will not change the known fact. let me state it categorically without mincing words that Yoruba does not need Edo to be a great Nation, we have been without them and we would continue to be without them but we are too civilized to deny facts the reason we refer to them as our cousins. if they do not want the association so be it.


Wilespo:
....lol, bros nobody dey drag relevance with u...chop all the relevance for the world ......na u win...just read the comment that made me give this response and maybe u will realize that this rubbish u posted is not called for and is most definitely NOT relevant....enjoy the rest of ur day bro!
Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by KingOKON: 3:03pm On May 17
Ex lover boy now Ooni teaching us AMAZING Yoruba history.

Now I understand why Oduduwa is Trinity
Yoruba version Hebrew and Islam version...... no be small thing

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by 0balufonlll: 10:20pm On May 22
TAO11:
My Position:

(1) “Ọbàtálá” (from: “Ọba-Ìdẹ̀ta-Ńlá”) = “Great King of ìdẹ̀ta”. (Was deified as Òrìṣà-Ńlá. He ruled Ìdẹ̀ta).

(2) “Òrìṣà” (from: “Òrìṣẹ̀”) = “The Source of Emergence”. (Applies originally to God Almighty himself, and later to the deified heroes & heroines).

Cc: macof


Obatala founded & reigned at Iranje [and later, Ife].

His descendants resident in Iranje recorded a phenomenon sometime around the 19th century. This event was very impactful such that they thought to commemorate the event in a descriptive term [Idita] which was added to the original name of the town founded by Obatala. Hence, Iranje-Idita.

Obatala's descendants started Idita, several centuries after Obatala founded Iranje. It was a form of change and continuity.

What I'm trying to say is, your theory about the etymology of Obatala is not workable bro.

2 Likes

Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by Christistruth00: 3:37pm On May 24
TAO11:

1880s Benin account :— Ekaladerhan lived all his life in his kingdom of Ughoton, thus he is NOT Oodua.

1903 Benin account :— Ekaladerhan lived all his life in his kingdom of Ughoton, thus he is NOT Oodua.

1940s Benin account :— Ekaladerhan lived all his life in his kingdom of Ughoton, thus he is NOT Oodua.

1950s Benin account :— Ekaladerhan is NOT one and the same person as Oodua.

Suddenly in the 1970s Benin account :— Ekaladerhan is one and the same person as Oodua.

The inferiority complex and fraud is as glaring as the mid-day sun.



TAO11 how are you hope everything is going well.
I found this article by Prof Biobaku which he wrote in the 1970s he also believed Oduduwa migrated from outside Ile Ife

THE PATTERN OF YORUBA HISTORY D r . SABURI BIOBAKU

Director of the Yoruba Historical Research Schzme, Nigeria
THE history of the indigenous peoples of West Africa is ripe for intensive research. The inevitable starting point is their traditional accounts; for since they were non-literate until comparatively recent times, their historian cannot expect to base his work on the normal raw materials of written documents. Happily, the research has begun, and the purpose of this short article is to summarize what a preliminary study of the traditional accounts of one of the peoples of West Africa has revealed of their history.
The Yoruba are one of the leading peoples of West Africa. They number over 4 million in the Western Region of Nigeria; the remainder inhabit a small part of Northern Nigeria and over- flow into French Dahomey and Togo, where they are known as 'Nagot' or 'Anago\ The Itsekiri of Western Nigeria are an offshoot of the main Yoruba stock, and the Oba of Benin and his immediate nobility can trace their descent from Ile-Ife, the Yoruba Holy City. Younger members of the Benin ruling house carried *Yoruba' influence eastwards across the Niger as far as Onitsha and into the Creeks, notably to Nembe in the Brass District. Yoruba descendants are also found at Freetown,
i
Sierra Leone, where they are known as the Aku ' people. Out-
side West Africa, they are known as the 'Lucumi' in Brazil. While concentrating on the Yoruba in Nigeria, what is said of them is essentially true of the other Yoruba-speaking peoples. They had a common origin; they might even have had an earlier common name which has been lost. They possess certain characteristics in common: they are farmers who dwell in towns ; their political institutions are monarchical and yet democratic; their indigenous religion is polytheistic, but they recognize a supreme deity, the Olorun; they are an artistic people whose skill was once of a very high order. The fact that the Yoruba possess a homogeneous culture is noticeable throughout the areas which they inhabit or into which their influence has
penetrated.
The Yoruba are not indigenous to Nigeria; they were immi-
grants from a region where they came under the influences of ancient Egyptians, Etruscans and Jews. Their original home

64 AFRICA SOUTH
must have been in the Near East, and it is probable that the all-Black Kingdom of Meroe in the Sudan played an important part in transmitting Egyptian influences to them. Whether it was in Upper Egypt or the Yemen, the Yoruba came under Arab influences in their old homes, and their subsequent migra- tion was connected with Arab movements. The migrations, which occurred in waves, formed parts of well-known migra- tions in the Sudan, through which the culture and civilization of North Africa were diffused throughout the regions immediately to the South. The first major wave, part of the great migration of Meroitic peoples, led by Kisra, a magician King, took place in the 7th century A.D. When it arrived in the area which is now Northern Nigeria, the Yoruba wave passed through the confluence of the Niger and the Benue and left a Yoruba settle- ment round Idah. These Yoruba immigrants subsequently became known as the Igara. The major wave swept on into part of the area now known as Yoruba-land, and the wanderers established themselves in the Ekiti country among their thinly spread predecessors, who were probably Efa or Egun peoples. From Ekiti, a minor wave went southwards and gave rise to the
Idoko branch of the Yoruba.
In this first wave of migrations, the Yoruba brought with
them all their characteristic institutions. The band of wanderers led by bold hunters soon founded towns, their political centres, whilst the people farmed in nearby areas. Each small town had an Oba or sacred chief at its head who was assisted by several secret societies, such as the Ogboni, in the exercise of rudimentary political and civic powers. Numerous sacred chiefs and small independent political units resulted in the Ekiti country and elsewhere. The Kisra migration was largely a peaceful penetra- tion, as witnessed by the various relics which it left behind in places such as Karissen, Wukari and Bussa. With the enter- prising farmers in search of better land who followed the great King, came also artists and artisans, who probably brought with them the prototypes of some of the well-known Yoruba terra- cottas and bronze heads. This first wave resulted in the planting of Yoruba elements, which not only helped to prepare the way effectively for the larger influx of the next major wave, but contributed much to the whole stream of Yoruba culture.
The second wave, the Oduduwa migration, is the best known in tradition. It arose from the pressure which the incursion of the Arabs into the Sudan exercised upon remnants of the

THE PATTERN OF YORUBA HISTORY
65
Yoruba and must have taken place towards the end of the 10th century A.D. The people who resisted all-conquering Islam found a great leader in Oduduwa (a leader later deified in tradition) and left their homes in search of a place where they could practise their traditional religion in safety. From the large chiefdoms which they later founded, it is evident that the leaders of this migration brought with them greater political
ideas and experience than the earlier ones.
We may safely assume that the Oduduwa migration entered
the area of modern Nigeria in the neighbourhood of Nupe. After crossing the Niger, it went southwards and eventually found a suitable site for a settlement at Ile-Ife, overwhelming the earlier inhabitants by its superior numbers and readily absorbing them. The newcomers, virile and united under one leadership, soon developed a stronghold at Ile-Ife, which became their cultural and artistic centre. Ife terra-cotta and bronze heads, distinguished by their unusual naturalism, testify to the high order of their artistic sensibilities. They also established their traditional religion with its 401 gods at Ile-Ife, which became a Holy City and was gradually idealized by them into the centre of creation. The gods they worshipped were either deified rulers such as Oduduwa or Obalufon; or gods of fertility (Orisa Oko) ; of divination (Ifa); of the sea and rivers (Olokun, Oshun); or of prosperity and well-being (Aje Shaluga). All these gods were but intermediaries to the supreme god, the Olorun (owner of the sky).
When the Yoruba had consolidated their political powers at Ile-Ife, they penetrated the neighbourhood in fan-like directions. This sudsidiary penetration occurred in two phases. The first phase was relatively peaceful and is known euphemistically in tradition as the division of the Kingdom among Oduduwa's sons. Minor waves of migration from Ile-Ife resulted in large and small chiefdoms such as Ketu and Shabe in the far west, Oyo in the Savannah, and Benin to the east. This phase occurred chiefly in the 11th century, when the Yoruba brought into play their political genius and organizing ability; for large chiefdoms were based upon large towns, which presented problems of law and order, of farming and of trade. During this phase also, the sub-tribes such as the Ijesha, the Oyo-Yoruba, the Ijebu, the Egba became differentiated.
The second phase was that of penetration by conquest. Gradually, two powerful kingdoms arose in the Yoruba country,

66
AFRICA SO UTH
and each became imperial. Oyo, to the West, achieved great-
ness under two warrior rulers—Oranyan and Shango—and
exercised suzerainty over a wide area. At the height of Oyo's
power in the 17th and 18th centuries, Dahomey paid annual
tribute to it, and Yoruba influence probably extended as far
as the Ga of the Gold Coast (now Ghana) as well. The ruler ,
of the 'empire was the Alafin (owner of the palace), and he established at Old Oyo, the capital, a truly elaborate court complete with eunuch and seraglio. The empire was divided into provinces, each of which embraced several chiefdoms. Metropolitan control was exercised through Ilari or intendants sent from Old Oyo, and sometimes through an Ajele or pro- consul, who represented the Alafin at the headquarters of pro- vincial kings. At the capital itself, the Alafin was assisted by the Oyomisi (the nobility), led by the Bashorun and the Esho Esho (or war lords), who were led in turn by the Are-ona Kakanfo; the commander-in-chief.
The second imperial chiefdom, which lay to the east of Ife, was Benin. It took two penetrations to establish the Yoruba dynasty firmly among the Edo people. The resulting kingdom rapidly extended its sway over an 'empire' stretching across the Niger and then recoiled westwards to include some Yoruba states. The Portuguese established contact with Benin in the
15th century, and the kingdom became famous for its bronze works (a derivative form of the Ife heads) and the mightiness of its rulers.
Space does not permit a more detailed account of either the Oyo or the Benin empire, nor of the other Yoruba states includ- ing the kingdom of the Olu of the Itsekiri. By the 19th century, both empires were in decay, and the Yoruba country was in the grip of internecine war. The ravages of the transatlantic slave trade aggravated the disruptive influences, and the result was that the Yoruba were weak, divided and demoralized when British penetration of their country began in earnest. Never- theless, they once held their own as a transmitter of culture and civilization. The artistic side of that culture is now receiv- ing recognition in the acknowledgement of the excellence of Ife terra-cotta and Benin bronzes. Dependent status in the
modern world has, however, obscured the political and economic aspects of their earlier achievements.
Law and order was maintained throughout the Oyo empire, and, even when it was on the wane in the 19th century, the

THE PATTERN OF YORUBA HISTORY
67
British explorers, Captain Clapperton and Richard Lander, were able to travel in safety from Badagry on the coast to Old Oyo in the interior under the protection of the Alafin. Human sacrifice had been abolished at Old Oyo by the beginning of the 19th century, and elsewhere in the Yoruba country it was a dying custom only rarely resorted to in times of dire necessity. At CJld Oyo there was neither the blood-bath of customs that marred the military kingdoms of Dahomey and Ashanti, nor the excessive cruelty which characterized some of the other African 'empires'. In the Oyo domains trade flourished; Kola nuts were taken along the caravan routes from Badagry and were exchanged for glassware and beads in North Africa by traders who passed in safety through the imperial city of Old Oyo. Throughout the Yoruba country, cotton was grown and woven into cloths of varying excellence and worn by the people according to their means. Among the Yoruba 'manner maketh man'; culture was reflected in politeness; and urbaniza- tion bred consideration for others and their points of view.
This brief analysis of the traditional account of the history of the Yoruba has revealed not only the roots, but also the depth, of their culture. It has shown that the peoples of West Africa, despite the present dependent status from which they are rapidly emerging, have a past at once fascinating to the his- torian and rewarding in its enrichment of our understanding of the world and its peoples. The challenge is one of techniques, and several historians and archaeologists have taken it up in the various research schemes now under way in West Africa.
Bronze Plaque excavated at Benin

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Re: Warri Succession Crisis: Oba Of Benin Wades In, Meets Ologbotsere by TAO11(f): 9:44pm On May 24
Christistruth00:
TAO11 how are you hope everything is going well.
I’m good, and you? Hope you’re good.

I found this article by Prof Biobaku which he wrote in the 1970s he also believed Oduduwa migrated from outside Ile Ife •••


Professor Biobaku’s thesis (or belief as you call it) in the 1970s is based on what??

This is the crucial question you must continue to ask yourself whenever you come across writings which suggest foreign roots for Oduduwa.

If you shy away from asking this question, then every supposed investigation you make afterwards is not only superficial but also rooted in self-deceit.

To answer this question, Professor Biobaku’s thesis here is (like many other similar theses which suggest foreign roots for Oduduwa) based on the conclusion reached in the late 1800s by the Rev. S. Johnson.

The Rev. Samuel Johnson concluded in the 1800s that the Yorubas (including the historical personage known as Oduduwa) hail originally from Upper Egypt.

It is on the basis of this original thesis of Rev Johnson that all subsequent historical theses of foreign roots (i.e. Middle-Eastern roots) take off till date.

As such, it is important to ask the next key question — which is that, on what foundation did S. Johnson himself base his very hypotheses/conclusion?

Was his hypothesis/conclusion based on accounts which originate ab-initio from the Yorubas themselves? The answer here is NO.

Instead, his ‘Middle-East’ hypotheses/conclusion is based on an account from Hausaland (authored by Sultan Bello) collected by Europeans in the early 1800s.

In contrast, this account of Yoruba origin which comes from Hausaland is completely opposite to the accounts of Yoruba origin (collected also in the early 1800s by Europeans) from Yorubaland.

The story that the Yorubas as a whole are originally from the Middle-East is the genesis of all the various accounts which regard Oduduwa as having his roots from the Middle-East.

This story was authored by Sultan Bello of Sokoto in the year 1824. He noted that the Yorubas originated from the Middle-East — (“Mecca” particularly).

Whereas, during the same period (and of course centuries earlier), the accounts collected from the Yorubas themselves by the Europeans maintains the complete opposite — that is, the Yorubas originated in their present homeland region.

This Bello’s story (which the Yorubas’s own testimony of the same period refutes) is the genesis of the ‘Middle-East’ narrative.

The Rev. Samuel Johnson jumped on this Middle-East direction (from Sultan Bello) to reach his own slightly different conclusion, viz. “Upper-Egypt or Nubia”.

Similarly, the best minds in historical scholarship who came after Johnson simply followed Johnson’s lead (without the second thought of investigating the origins of his conclusion).

They all faced the Middle-East and arrived at their respective conclusions. One of these scholars is the Professor Biobaku himself, among others.

It wasn’t until deep into the 1900s, before a new direction emerged. This new direction now focuses on the indigenous evidence — that is, what the account of the Yorubas say ab-initio. Rather than what Bello’s story (from Hausaland) says about the Yorubas.

This new direction (which focuses on the indigenous evidence and other source material evolved as part of a more scientific study of African history in general) has now enabled scholars of Yoruba & African history to respectfully lay aside Sultan Bello’s story as well as the Johnsonian hypothesis which is based on it (including all other conclusions based on them).

In contrast, the indigenous accounts of the Yorubas themselves has it, ab-initio, that: (1) the Yorubas’ emergence [as an ethnolinguistic group of people] first occurred inside the regions of their present homeland; (2) Oduduwa as a historical personage hails from a hilly settlement, viz. Oke-Ora — one of the seven hilly settlements surrounding the Ife-bowl.

Moreover, there is not one single conflict between these two foregoing piece of indigenous Yoruba tradition on one hand, and modern scientific knowledge on the other hand.

In fact, these two pieces of information have found a significant amount of corroboration in archaeology, linguistics, and recently (though still ongoing) genetics.

As it stands today, “All who study the history of Ife and of the Yoruba people are now generally agreed that ... It is on the soil of Yorubaland that Oduduwa was born and raised”.~ S. Adebanji Akintoye, “A History of the Yoruba People,” 2010.

Cheers!

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