Ammishaddai:
You did not read the verse and you quickly jumped to a conclusion to an unrelated scripture. But the fault is mine. The proper verse was Colossians 2:9, which say " the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form dwells in Jesus ". This and many other scriptures point to the fact Jesus is God. Another verse that undeniably states that Jesus is God was when Philip expressly stated He wanted to know Jesus' Father(John 14:9-11). That scripture alone seals the deal regarding the identity of Jesus. This is simple but I know you have your own views regarding this but, if you choose not to accept those verses as the words of Jesus, kindly argue that with Him in person

Jesus is God. Is Jesus the Father (God the Father) or the Son (The son of God)?


That’s my humble question.

OkCornel:


Jesus is God. Is Jesus the Father (God the Father) or the Son (The son of God)?


That’s my humble question.

Bros Jesus is God. And John 1:1 was said that. So argue it that with the bible.

Ammishaddai:
Bros Jesus is God. And John 1:1 was said that. So argue it that with the bible.

You are not answering my question.

Is Jesus the Father or the Son? Or is Jesus both?

Again John 1 v 1 mentions the word was “with” God, before saying the word was God.

So please answer my question. Is Jesus God the Father? Or is Jesus the Son? Or is Jesus both.

Patiently awaiting your answer, because you’re not really clear with the real meaning of oneness.

John 17 v 20-23;

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;

21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.


John 17 v 21 clearly explains what oneness means.

Jesus wants us to be one with him just as he’s one with God.

So for example, that Jesus wants all believers to be one with him doesn’t necessarily make Okcornel, Ammishaddai and Janosky exactly the same person. We’re one team. Same logic applies to the God head of the Father, Son & Spirit.

In summary, oneness means one team... not “one individual”

Ammishaddai, read John 17 v 21 carefully and see what oneness means there.

If you’re telling us Jesus is God the Father, then that also means Janosky is also the same person as Ammishaddai.

Since that verse clearly states Jesus wants every believer to be one just he is one with the Father.

You see how funny it sounds?

OkCornel:


You are not answering my question.

Is Jesus the Father or the Son? Or is Jesus both?

Again John 1 v 1 mentions the word was “with” God, before saying the word was God.

So please answer my question. Is Jesus God the Father? Or is Jesus the Son? Or is Jesus both.

Patiently awaiting your answer, because you’re not really clear with the real meaning of oneness.

Bros do not pick sentences abeg. What happened to the verse that said " and the word was God ". Oga, learn to aruge with sense not cluelessness

Ammishaddai:
Bros do not pick sentences abeg. What happened to the verse that said " and the word was God ". Oga, learn to aruge with sense not cluelessness

You want to discuss the word was God? Of course the word was God in the sense that Jesus is God the son or the son of God.

Now please answer the following questions now that I’ve answered you;

1. Was does “the word was WITH God” mean in John 1 v 1?

2. Is Jesus the Father or the Son? Or is he both?

I’m patiently awaiting your answer, don’t dodge this.

OkCornel:
John 17 v 20-23;

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;

21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.


John 17 v 21 clearly explains what oneness means.

Jesus wants us to be one with him just as he’s one with God.

So for example, that Jesus wants all believers to be one with him doesn’t necessarily make Okcornel, Ammishaddai and Janosky exactly the same person. We’re one team. Same logic applies to the God head of the Father, Son & Spirit.

In summary, oneness means one team... not “one individual”

Bros there can never be oneness with God. Scripture has clearly stated Who Jesus is and the final revelation was given by Paul when he wrote his letter to Timothy.

Great is the mystery of Godliness : God was manifested the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen by angel, preached to the gentiles and received up in glory "(1Timothy 3:16).

Oga, I did not write these verss but I accept them as true. And if you do not accept them for what they are, I suggest you go to the great beyond and aruge your case with the dead apostles

Ammishaddai, another poser for you from John 1 v 1, God has no beginning or end right?

So which (or whose) beginning was John referring to in John 1 v 1? Bearing in mind Jesus is the first born of all creation?

This was written in Colossians 1 v 15-16

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

16 For in him all things were created:things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him

Ammishaddai:
Bros there can never be oneness with God. Scripture has clearly stated Who Jesus is and the final revelation was given by Paul when he wrote his letter to Timothy.

Great is the mystery of Godliness : God was manifested the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen by angel, preached to the gentiles and received up in glory "(1Timothy 3:16).

Oga, I did not write these verss but I accept them as true. And if you do not accept them for what they are, I suggest you go to the great beyond and aruge your case with the dead apostles

I didn’t write John 17 v 21 or Philippians 2 v 15-19 either... so take all the scriptures in context.

OkCornel:


You want to discuss the word was God? Of course the word was God in the sense that Jesus is God the son or the son of God.

Now please answer the following questions now that I’ve answered you;

1. Was does “the word was WITH God” mean in John 1 v 1?

2. Is Jesus the Father or the Son? Or is he both.

I’m patiently awaiting your answer, don’t dodge this.

Why would I want to discuss what has already been define by scripture? Oga, I do not know how to manipulate scripture like you. My NKJV of the bible has referred Jesus to me as more than just a Son. He is God revealed unto man.

OkCornel:


I didn’t write John 17 v 21 or Philippians 2 v 15-19 either... so take all the scriptures in context.

I accept all scripture of the Bible because the bible is a book that constantly reveals the mind of God. This means it is progressive. And so is the revelation of the mystery of God. Just read the Bible and you will grab. But you can continue to argue since that is what you want

Ammishaddai:
Why would I want to discuss what has already been define by scripture? Oga, I do not know how to manipulate scripture like you. My NKJV of the bible has referred Jesus to me as more than just a Son. He is God revealed unto man.

I am not manipulating anything. Isn’t the scriptures explanatory enough? Just answer my questions.

1. What does “the word was WITH God” mean in John 1 v 1?

2. Is Jesus the Father, or is he the Son or is he both.

3. In Colossians 1 v 15-16; which of them is Jesus there? Is he the father or the son?

Ammishaddai:
I accept all scripture of the Bible because the bible is a book that constantly reveals the mind of God. This means it is progressive. And so is the revelation of the mystery of God. Just read the Bible and you will grab. But you can continue to argue since that is what you want

I’m not arguing, just asked you some questions you’re dodging from even though I’m answering yours.

Anyone following this thread can see that clearly.

OkCornel:


I am not manipulating anything. Isn’t the scriptures explanatory enough? Just answer my questions.

1. What does “the word was WITH God” mean in John 1 v 1?

2. Is Jesus the Father, or is he the Son or is he both.

3. In Colossians 1 v 15-16; which of them is Jesus there? Is he the father or the son?

John1:1 says "...
and the word was God ".

Jesus spoke alot about His Father (God). And for a long time, one of His disciples(Philip) wanted to know who His Father was.

So he got up and asked Jesus, " Show us the Father, and it is enough for us "(John14:8.)

Of which Jesus said to Him ''Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? "

"He who has seen Me has seen the Father, so how can you say show us the Father? (Johm 14:9).


Please note : Philip wanted visual evidence; he wanted to see the identity of God with his own eyes. And in verse 9, Jesus plainly showed him who the Father was.


Now this can only mean two things

It is either that Jesus lied to Him by saying He was the Father , or that He was just being truthful about who He was.

Ammishaddai:
Bros there can never be oneness with God. Scripture has clearly stated Who Jesus is and the final revelation was given by Paul when he wrote his letter to Timothy.

If according to you, there can never be oneness with God, does that mean Jesus lied in John 17 v 20-23? Read verse 21 slowly.

John 17 v 20-23;

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;

21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

OkCornel:


I’m not arguing, just asked you some questions you’re dodging from even though I’m answering yours.

Anyone following this thread can see that clearly.

I already answered your question with the scriptures that support my point of view. But you have chosen to reject them by bringing twisted interpretations that change the entire context of the Bible in its right sense.

Ammishaddai:
John1:1 says "...
and the word was God ".

Jesus spoke alot about His Father (God). And for a long time, one of His disciples(Philip) wanted to know who His Father was.

So he got up and asked Jesus, " Show us the Father, and it is enough for us "(John14:8.)

Of which Jesus said to Him ''Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? "

"He who has seen Me has seen the Father, so how can you say show us the Father? (Johm 14:9).


Please note : Philip wanted visual evidence; he wanted to see the identity of God with his own eyes. And in verse 9, Jesus plainly showed him who the Father was.


Now this can only mean two things

It is either that Jesus lied to Him by saying He was the Father , or that He was just being truthful about who He was.

Read your sentence slowly. Jesus spoke about the Father, is that Jesus speaking about himself too?

Nope, the son is not the father. He is an image (or reflection) of the Father. Colossians 1 v 15-16 makes it clear.


Can you be the Father and Son at the same time? Think am nau.

So back to my question. Just a very straightforward answer.

Is Jesus the Father? Or is he the Son, or he is the Father and the Son?

Just a direct answer will do.

Ammishaddai:
I already answered your question with the scriptures that support my point of view. But you have chosen to reject them by bringing twisted interpretations that change the entire context of the Bible in its right sense.

Relax, just give us a short answer to the question.

Is Jesus the Father?, or the Son? Or both?

OkCornel:


Relax, just give us a short answer to the question.

Is Jesus the Father?, or the Son? Or both?

Bros my answer is John 1:1. Now cashout on that.

OkCornel:


Read your sentence slowly. Jesus spoke about the Father, is that Jesus speaking about himself too?

Nope, the son is not the father. He is an image (or reflection) of the Father. Colossians 1 v 15-16 makes it clear.


Can you be the Father and Son at the same time? Think am nau.

So back to my question. Just a very straightforward answer.

Is Jesus the Father? Or is he the Son, or he is the Father and the Son?

Just a direct answer will do.

Jesus lied to Philip is that what you are saying?

How can somebody be the firstborn and still be the Father at the same time? It doesn’t add up.

Calm down and think it through then the understanding will come. It’s very straightforward, nothing mysterious in it really.

Ammishaddai:
Jesus lied to Philip is that what you are saying?

Nope, if you understand what Jesus told Phillip there, He is the image of the Father. Why does he want to see the Father when His image is already in flesh on earth?

Now ask yourself this... is an image the actual thing or A REFLECTION of the actual thing?

Colossians 1 v 15-16 answers your question again.

OkCornel:
How can somebody be the firstborn and still be the Father at the same time? It doesn’t add up.

Calm down and think it through then the understanding will come. It’s very straightforward, nothing mysterious in it really.

To you, it can never add up ; just like the way Muslims can never add up the fact that God can have a Son.

So it is okay to limit God to your own perspective. I understand that perfectly well

Ammishaddai:
Bros my answer is John 1:1. Now cashout on that.

Lol, but you ignored two things in John 1 v 1

a) In the beginning - whose beginning? I thought God has no beginning or end?

b) The word was WITH God - Can you be the Father and still BE WITH the Father?

Think it through, it’s nothing complex.

Unless you want to clearly tell us Jesus is the Father and the Son, which of course is very laughable and defies the concept of Fatherhood and Sonship to start with.

OkCornel:


Nope, if you understand what Jesus told Phillip there, He is the image of the Father. Why does he want to see the Father when His image is already in flesh on earth?

Now ask yourself this... is an image the actual thing or A REFLECTION of the actual thing?

Colossians 1 v 15-16 answers your question again.

Bros this is a simple yes or no question. Did Jesus lie to Philip that He was God the Father? Secondly why are you bringing image into this question. Can you see how you like deviating abi?

Ammishaddai:
To you, it can never add up ; just like the way Muslims can never add up the fact that God can have a Son.

So it is okay to limit God to your own perspective. I understand that perfectly well

Just tell us how it is possible for Jesus to be the Father and the Son.

Also tell us how it is possible for Jesus to be the Father and yet be the first born of all creation at the same time.

John 17 v 21, John 1 v 1, Philippians 2 v 15-19, Colossians 1 v 15-16

OkCornel:


Lol, but you ignored two things in John 1 v 1

a) In the beginning - whose beginning? I thought God has no beginning or end?

b) The word was WITH God - Can you be the Father and still BE WITH the Father?

Think it through, it’s nothing complex.

Unless you want to clearly tell us Jesus is the Father and the Son, which of course is very laughable and defies the concept of Fatherhood and Sonship to start with.

I accept John 1:1 in its entirety because it says that Jesus was
1. The Word of God

2. That He was God.

3. And He was with God( The fullness of the Godhead)

Ammishaddai:
Bros this is a simple yes or no question. Did Jesus lie to Philip that He was God the Father? Secondly why are you bringing image into this question. Can you see how you like deviating abi?

Where did Jesus call Himself the Father in that scripture? He’s a reflection (an image) of the Father, not the Father Himself.

Alright, please show us where Jesus (who clearly confessed to be the Son) claimed to be the Father too.

Waiting patiently.

OkCornel:


Just tell us how it is possible for Jesus to be the Father and the Son.

Also tell us how it is possible for Jesus to be the Father and yet be the first born of all creation at the same time.

John 17 v 21, John 1 v 1, Philippians 2 v 15-19, Colossians 1 v 15-16

Why is it impossible for God not be the Son and at the same time Be God? Or is God now limited to your own finite understanding?

Ammishaddai:
I accept John 1:1 in its entirety because it says that Jesus was
1. The Word of God

2. That He was God.

3. And He was with God( The fullness of the Godhead)

Very good. How many persons make up the Godhead?

I’ll bring another scripture from John 17 for you.

Ammishaddai:
Why is it impossible for God to be the Son and at the same time Be God? Or is God now limited to your own finite understanding?

I’m not limiting God at all. I’m taking His word as it is without inserting my own thoughts or doctrines of men into it.

Another poser for you. Is Jesus also the Holy Spirit?