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Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? - Culture (3) - Nairaland

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Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Moblux(m): 10:24pm On May 24
Olu317:
You try........post something that mentioned any of the renowned deity. Let me be but proof you are a worthy son of Yorubaland.

This is a Yoruba historical deities thread and not Hebrew and Yoruba perspective. So,don't derail it. O yá, proof you are worthy son.
grin

Unlike you, I don't rant sir because monikers here can testify to it, even if my research look beyond their comprehension,which I blame them not since, my work is yet to be documented. So it will naturally look awkward. Seriously, I am dealing with it.

But what can we posit about you? Least I forget, you bullied Edos even if Oramiyan actually went overthere. And this same man came back to Ileife to reign. But are you aware that Owodo as a name was a prince in Ileife; one of the ancestor of Ooni Abelewa? You see, I am not like you and can't be.


Sorry to take you off the topic of this thread.
1. Do you have list of of the 97 kings that ruled before Obatala?

2. Is it true that Nupe tribe is an offshoot of Obatala?

Thanks in advance, brother
Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 5:24am On May 25
Moblux:


Sorry to take you off the topic of this thread.
1. Do you have list of of the 97 kings that ruled before Obatala?

2. Is it true that Nupe tribe is an offshoot of Obatala?

Thanks in advance, brother
Permit me to emphasise, here that you didnt or havent derail the thread. So, your questions are inline with the deities.

1 . The most relevant or should I posit here that the most referenced account being mentioned is "One of the most important events in ancient Ife history with respect to both the early arts and later era religious and political traditions here was a devastating civil war pitching one group, the supporters of Obatala (referencing today at once a god, a deity pantheon, and the region’s autochthonous populations) against
affiliates of Odudua (an opposing deity, religious pantheon, and newly arriving dynastic group). Art in Ancient Ife; Birthplace of the Yoruba; Suzanne Preston Blier p.p 70, Vol. 45

The Ikedu oral history text addressing Ife’s history (an annotated kings list transposed from the early Ife dialect; Akinjogbin n.d.) indicates that it was during the reign of Ife’s 46th king—what appears to be two rulers prior to the famous King Obalufon II (Ekenwa)—that this violent civil war broke out. This conflict weakened the city enough so that there was little resistance when a military force under the conqueror Oranmiyan arrived in this historic city. 1992. “Th e Phenomenon of Oduduwa in Ife. History.” In The Cradle of a Race (Ife From the Beginning to 1980), ed. I.A. Akinjogbin, pp. 62–76. Port Harcourt: Sunray Publications.

It is a fact that the above quote by Susan Blier is from Professor Akinjogbin'saccount that pegged the time of Oranmiyan asscending the throne as number 46th (when he and obalufon Ii) when struggle over the throne betweenOduduan and Obatalas disagreed.

If you do your calculation based on this current information ,then the total numbers will be 97 kings.
Although, Oyo's accounts mentioned names , such as Olùáṣọ, Pẹká etc, in "Yorubas, The lost tribe of Isreal" Dierk Lange (2004Lange ( , 2009Lange ( , 2011aLange ( , 2011bLange ( , 2011c,) . But still remained inconclusive. Thus, the names of these kings may have been lost to antiquities, because traces of these kings are not found in Ileife.(I stand to be corrected)



2.Nupe aren't Yorubas.i.e Obatalas.And these people do not speak any variation or corrupt Yoruba dialects.
Although Yoruba people did married these people and assimilated some, whom are of Tapa origin;Nupe. You, see facial marks found on Yorubas are also found on some Hausas breed, Kanuri,Ichi marks of the Ibos often Nri men, some Sudanese known as (Hadandawa) etc. Although there lived a people of Copts origin in Sudan live mostly in northern cities, including Al Obeid, Atbara, Dongola, Khartoum, Omdurman, Port Sudan, and Wad Medani. They number up to 500,000, or slightly over 1% of the population who speak coptic language as litturgy; corrupt version of Yorubas as being spoken in North and South Americas.



In between, I hope you are a bit satisfied.


Cheers
Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Moblux(m): 5:40am On May 25
Olu317:
Permit me to emphasise, here that you didnt or havent derail the thread. So, your questions are inline with the deities.

1 . The most relevant or should I posit here that the most referenced account being mentioned is "One of the most important events in ancient Ife history with respect to both the early arts and later era religious and political traditions here was a devastating civil war pitching one group, the supporters of Obatala (referencing today at once a god, a deity pantheon, and the region’s autochthonous populations) against
affiliates of Odudua (an opposing deity, religious pantheon, and newly arriving dynastic group). Art in Ancient Ife; Birthplace of the Yoruba; Suzanne Preston Blier p.p 70, Vol. 45

The Ikedu oral history text addressing Ife’s history (an annotated kings list transposed from the early Ife dialect; Akinjogbin n.d.) indicates that it was during the reign of Ife’s 46th king—what appears to be two rulers prior to the famous King Obalufon II (Ekenwa)—that this violent civil war broke out. This conflict weakened the city enough so that there was little resistance when a military force under the conqueror Oranmiyan arrived in this historic city. 1992. “Th e Phenomenon of Oduduwa in Ife. History.” In The Cradle of a Race (Ife From the Beginning to 1980), ed. I.A. Akinjogbin, pp. 62–76. Port Harcourt: Sunray Publications.

It is a fact that the above quote by Susan Blier is from Professor Akinjogbin'saccount that pegged the time of Oranmiyan asscending the throne as number 46th (when he and obalufon Ii) when struggle over the throne betweenOduduan and Obatalas disagreed.

If you do your calculation based on this current information ,then the total numbers will be 97 kings.
Although, Oyo's accounts mentioned names , such as Olùáṣọ, Pẹká etc, in "Yorubas, The lost tribe of Isreal" Dierk Lange (2004Lange ( , 2009Lange ( , 2011aLange ( , 2011bLange ( , 2011c,) . But still remained inconclusive. Thus, the names of these kings may have been lost to antiquities, because traces of these kings are not found in Ileife.(I stand to be corrected)



2.Nupe aren't Yorubas.i.e Obatalas.And these people do not speak any variation or corrupt Yoruba dialects.
Although Yoruba people did married these people and assimilated some, whom are of Tapa origin;Nupe. You, see facial marks found on Yorubas are also found on some Hausas breed, Kanuri,Ichi marks of the Ibos often Nri men, some Sudanese known as (Hadandawa) etc. Although there lived a people of Copts origin in Sudan live mostly in northern cities, including Al Obeid, Atbara, Dongola, Khartoum, Omdurman, Port Sudan, and Wad Medani. They number up to 500,000, or slightly over 1% of the population who speak coptic language as litturgy; corrupt version of Yorubas as being spoken in North and South Americas.



In between, I hope you are a bit satisfied.


Cheers

Thanks for the response. I am just interested in pre-Oduduwa history of Ife
Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by rhektor(m): 6:54am On May 25
Olu317:
Without iota of doubt, there are more 'ba' in Yoruba language with different diacritics that has different meaning which can be [ b]homograph, homophone,homonym[/b] and not
heterograph
in nature

My dear , this is a platorm for learning and one need be careful if such does not have the perequisite to do justice to question to being asked. So, I am not here to dilly dally. Beside, Iam a thorough Yoruba language's speaker

Howbeit,you are angry, which may seem normal before you but not to me because Idon't see reason for such in as much as I am only sharing knowledge. Instead, If you're in doubt, consult written books to be your guide, dictionaries account, elders in your environment, elders in your hometown, Ifaodu priests, and self researches. No hard feeling.

Cheers
Stop throwing the word research out like cheap cabdies please. To research does not mean to think things out of the blues and that exactly is what you are doing. Research moves from what is known to the unknown however with you it seems that research mean having a wish and twisting words to suit it and presenting your thoughts as facts. Please take the advice on learning how to apply diacritical marks it goes a long way in shaping words in Yorùbá language as this our language is a tonal language.
I will say it again that I am not angry at you as a person but at the mixing up of things that you did above.
Let me add thus I have learnt some things from some of yiur post but that will not exonerate your work from criticism, that's how learning is done. Stop seeing everyone who call out the error in your work as your enemies, we aren't your enemy. Your enemy is your arrogance that is preventing you from seeing things form others perspectives. It is the highway to destruction.
Finally, there's nothing like Àrè on its own that translate to crown, crown is Adé. For example we have a type of crown called Adé ìṣẹ̀m̀báyé while we equally have a type of crown called Adé-àrè.

I hope this get to you in good faith, cheers

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Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 11:41am On May 25
Olu317:
You try........post something that mentioned any of the renowned deity. Let me be but proof you are a worthy son of Yorubaland.

This is a Yoruba historical deities thread and not Hebrew and Yoruba perspective. So,don't derail it. O yá, proof you are worthy son.
grin

Unlike you, I don't rant sir because monikers here can testify to it, even if my research look beyond their comprehension,which I blame them not since, my work is yet to be documented. So it will naturally look awkward. Seriously, I am dealing with it.

But what can we posit about you? Least I forget, you bullied Edos even if Oramiyan actually went overthere. And this same man came back to Ileife to reign. But are you aware that Owodo as a name was a prince in Ileife; one of the ancestor of Ooni Abelewa? You see, I am not like you and can't be
Why does this scam artist think I am here to do his bidding?

You must be high on suck-away.
Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 1:04pm On May 25
rhektor:

Stop throwing the word research out like cheap cabdies please. To research does not mean to think things out of the blues and that exactly is what you are doing. Research moves from what is known to the unknown however with you it seems that research mean having a wish and twisting words to suit it and presenting your thoughts as facts. Please take the advice on learning how to apply diacritical marks it goes a long way in shaping words in Yorùbá language as this our language is a tonal language.
I will say it again that I am not angry at you as a person but at the mixing up of things that you did above.
Let me add thus I have learnt some things from some of yiur post but that will not exonerate your work from criticism, that's how learning is done. Stop seeing everyone who call out the error in your work as your enemies, we aren't your enemy. Your enemy is your arrogance that is preventing you from seeing things form others perspectives. It is the highway to destruction.
Finally, there's nothing like Àrè on its own that translate to crown, crown is Adé. For example we have a type of crown called Adé ìṣẹ̀m̀báyé while we equally have a type of crown called Adé-àrè.

I hope this get to you in good faith, cheers
Not hard feeling but just that will sum up these questions of yours and allegations in tripod perspective because I am in a tripod position.
1. Research is just enquiry into facts or theories. So no qualm on such terminology

2. I have never added up words in a twisting way because I have shown each word with it Yoruba dictionary and the one you can't find in this screenshot will be dealt with later. Even if you claim you know yoruba language or speak it more than I do isn't a problem to me.

2b. I'm aware that when teaching Yoruba literacy, solfège names of musical notes are used to name the tones: low is do, mid is re, and high is mi. Tentatively the current orthography of Yoruba was developed from a 1966 report of the Yoruba Orthography Committee, along with Ayọ Bamgboṣe's 1965 Yoruba Orthography


A B D E Ẹ F G Gb H I J K
a b d e ẹ f g gb h i j k L M N O Ọ P R S Ṣ T U W
l m n o ọ p r s ṣ t u w Y
y


Meanwhile in Benin Republic , Yoruba uses a different orthography. The Yoruba alphabet was standardized along with other Benin languages in the National Languages Alphabet by the National Language Commission in 1975, and revised in 1990 and 2008 by the National Center for Applied Linguistics. Benin alphabet

A B D E Ɛ F G Gb H I J K
a b d e ɛ f g gb h i j k Kp L M N O Ɔ P R S Sh T U
kp l m n o ɔ p r s sh t u
W Y
w y

So, as you can see yoruba language has not been fully understood by the modern day writers because knowledgeof the language is as old as mankind's existence on planet earth. So, I am aware of Yoruba's language vast ancient strength.Altough you may choose to disagree.

3. Àrẹ ("a" sound in bad~ b"a"d) was what I posited and not Àrè.One of the variant option is that according Yoruba dictionary Ȃrẹ is attested to have circumflex on the "A" AArẹ ,which means eldest child,apparent heir etc. Although homophone and homophene exist in this word which makes Yoruba lexicon intiguing.But like I had stated Ȃrẹ is known to mean a crown.

Furthmore, Ȃrolè is older in term of meaning, apparent reigning heir on the throne or incharge of a position of his ancestors.

In conclusion, below is a screenahot of Ȃrẹ, which is a crown.

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 1:13pm On May 25
TAO11:
Why does this scam artist think I am here to do his bidding?

You must be high on suck-away.
Post somthing on Yoruba but you cannot. Stop deraiing Mr Oba ti Ideta. grin grin. Obviously you lack the pedigree.
Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 2:45pm On May 25
Olu317:
Post somthing on Yoruba but you cannot. Stop deraiing Mr Oba ti Ideta. grin grin. Obviously you lack the pedigree.
Yes my over 5,000 posts on Nairaland are posts about China, and NOT about Yoruba. cheesy

Olu317, aka a busted scam artist in severe pains. grin

1 Like

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by rhektor(m): 5:50pm On May 25
Olu317:
Not hard feeling but just that will sum up these questions of yours and allegations in tripod perspective because I am in a tripod position.
1. Research is just enquiry into facts or theories. So no qualm on such terminology

2. I have never added up words in a twisting way because I have shown each word with it Yoruba dictionary and the one you can't find in this screenshot will be dealt with later. Even if you claim you know yoruba language or speak it more than I do isn't a problem to me.

2b. I'm aware that when teaching Yoruba literacy, solfège names of musical notes are used to name the tones: low is do, mid is re, and high is mi. Tentatively the current orthography of Yoruba was developed from a 1966 report of the Yoruba Orthography Committee, along with Ayọ Bamgboṣe's 1965 Yoruba Orthography


A B D E Ẹ F G Gb H I J K
a b d e ẹ f g gb h i j k L M N O Ọ P R S Ṣ T U W
l m n o ọ p r s ṣ t u w Y
y


Meanwhile in Benin Republic , Yoruba uses a different orthography. The Yoruba alphabet was standardized along with other Benin languages in the National Languages Alphabet by the National Language Commission in 1975, and revised in 1990 and 2008 by the National Center for Applied Linguistics. Benin alphabet

A B D E Ɛ F G Gb H I J K
a b d e ɛ f g gb h i j k Kp L M N O Ɔ P R S Sh T U
kp l m n o ɔ p r s sh t u
W Y
w y

So, as you can see yoruba language has not been fully understood by the modern day writers because knowledgeof the language is as old as mankind's existence on planet earth. So, I am aware of Yoruba's language vast ancient strength.Altough you may choose to disagree.

3. Àrẹ ("a" sound in bad~ b"a"d) was what I posited and not Àrè.One of the variant option is that according Yoruba dictionary Ȃrẹ is attested to have circumflex on the "A" AArẹ ,which means eldest child,apparent heir etc. Although homophone and homophene exist in this word which makes Yoruba lexicon intiguing.But like I had stated Ȃrẹ is known to mean a crown.

Furthmore, Ȃrolè is older in term of meaning, apparent reigning heir on the throne or incharge of a position of his ancestors.

In conclusion, below is a screenahot of Ȃrẹ, which is a crown.

The screenshot you added here is neither historical nor fact. Coming from heaven in that context shows it to be a myth.
Now to the way the words are written in Benin Republic lol, my brother you're just trying to mix things up here. How would an English man look at the way words are written in Australia or America and then claim that, that is the correct way it should be written or pronounced? This seriously is a joke right?
You and I know that in Benin Republic the way they would understand, write and present whatever Yorùbá content would have been influenced by the environment they found themselves. You can not use the way these people write Yorùbá to justify anything here please. I wish you all the best in your work

NB: You still make a lot of blunders with the diacritics, for whatever reason you chose to please don't turn words upside down because of a preconceived opinion

1 Like

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by macof(m): 6:24pm On May 25
Olu317:
Not hard feeling but just that will sum up these questions of yours and allegations in tripod perspective because I am in a tripod position.
1. Research is just enquiry into facts or theories. So no qualm on such terminology

2. I have never added up words in a twisting way because I have shown each word with it Yoruba dictionary and the one you can't find in this screenshot will be dealt with later. Even if you claim you know yoruba language or speak it more than I do isn't a problem to me.

2b. I'm aware that when teaching Yoruba literacy, solfège names of musical notes are used to name the tones: low is do, mid is re, and high is mi. Tentatively the current orthography of Yoruba was developed from a 1966 report of the Yoruba Orthography Committee, along with Ayọ Bamgboṣe's 1965 Yoruba Orthography


A B D E Ẹ F G Gb H I J K
a b d e ẹ f g gb h i j k L M N O Ọ P R S Ṣ T U W
l m n o ọ p r s ṣ t u w Y
y


Meanwhile in Benin Republic , Yoruba uses a different orthography. The Yoruba alphabet was standardized along with other Benin languages in the National Languages Alphabet by the National Language Commission in 1975, and revised in 1990 and 2008 by the National Center for Applied Linguistics. Benin alphabet

A B D E Ɛ F G Gb H I J K
a b d e ɛ f g gb h i j k Kp L M N O Ɔ P R S Sh T U
kp l m n o ɔ p r s sh t u
W Y
w y


So, as you can see yoruba language has not been fully understood by the modern day writers because knowledgeof the language is as old as mankind's existence on planet earth. So, I am aware of Yoruba's language vast ancient strength.Altough you may choose to disagree.



undecided what about @rhektor 's post is this even relevant to??

That Yoruba language in Benin Republic is written with modified alphabets different from that written in Nigeria has no relevance to the point he is making. The tones don't change simply because it is Yoruba orthography in Benin Republic.
Besides let's even argue it does, you constantly give strange tone marks and alphabets to a word and never have you stated that you were using the orthography popular in Benin Republic

All this one na scam undecided



3. Àrẹ ("a" sound in bad~ b"a"d) was what I posited and not Àrè.One of the variant option is that according Yoruba dictionary Ȃrẹ is attested to have circumflex on the "A" AArẹ ,which means eldest child,apparent heir etc. Although homophone and homophene exist in this word which makes Yoruba lexicon intiguing. But like I had stated Ȃrẹ is known to mean a crown.


Furthmore, Ȃrolè is older in term of meaning, apparent reigning heir on the throne or incharge of a position of his ancestors.

In conclusion, below is a screenahot of Ȃrẹ, which is a crown.

SMH. Everything you read from him didn't even marinate in your head, you just keep saying your own lmao grin

rhektor:


Finally, there's nothing like Àrè on its own that translate to crown, crown is Adé. For example we have a type of crown called Adé ìṣẹ̀m̀báyé while we equally have a type of crown called Adé-àrè.

I hope this get to you in good faith, cheers

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Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 6:32pm On May 25
macof:
undecided what about @rhektor 's post is this even relevant to??

That Yoruba language in Benin Republic is written with modified alphabets different from that written in Nigeria has no relevance to the point he is making. The tones don't change simply because it is Yoruba orthography in Benin Republic.
Besides let's even argue it does, you constantly give strange tone marks and alphabets to a word and never have you stated that you were using the orthography popular in Benin Republic

All this one na scam undecided

SMH. Everything you read from him didn't even marinate in your head, you just keep saying your own lmao grin
He is not only a well-known scam artist, he is also a block head.

He has a mysterious skull through which truth can not possibly penetrate. An “impermeable membrane” so to speak. Lol.

Not only is he clueless on Yoruba diacritic marks, he has also lost all hopes of learning it. Pitiable!

1 Like

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by macof(m): 6:38pm On May 25
TAO11:
Got it.
___
I get your point here.

Both means father obviously, but the first appears clearly to have been the original Yoruba form vis-a-vis its etymology — from “ba,” viz. to “couch,” to “lord,” etc.

In the light of the foregoing, “bàbá” appears then to have been a form which evolved later from “baba” or/ and from other similarly-sounding words for “father” in other near/distant cultures.

————
My following note is not so relevant to the point here:

I would say ìbà, means “homage,” and júbà (or ṣèbà) means to “pay homage”.

Cheers!

To be honest it is indeed "ọba". I was trying to make a point with examples like Baba/Bàbá and Ìbà where I was proposing a derivation from "bà" could produce a logical etymology. But it's too much a stretch for that to be the case with "Ọba". There was a bit of wishful thinking on my part

Reason why I don't think I can apply that baba /Bàbá logic is that, the word for father might be from baby talk baba/dada/papa etc
(just to add another theory to the mix grin)

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/words-mom-dad-similar-languages/409810/

1 Like

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by macof(m): 6:52pm On May 25
0balufonlll:


Interesting perspective!
However, I am going to say that Obatala was one of the several titles or appellations for this important deified culture hero. The title Obatala stemmed from the particularism of this figure for white clothes and efun (white chalks).

Each of the Irun imole (400 deities) have specific colour(s) they identified with in the form of fabric, and spatial aesthetics. These deities either identified with this colour alone (such as Oduduwa - black; Ogun - red; Orunmila - green and brown with some white; Esu Ola Ilu - red & black etc.) or belonged to a group of deities associated with the colour.

Obatala is the leading deity among the 400 deities. This may be argued in the form of political power, age and other mythical imaginations within Yoruba folklore. In addition to being the leading personage among the 400 deities, Obatala is also the King of all deities associated with colour white and I think this is where the title 'Oba ti ala', king of white cloths or king of all things white, emanated from. Some of the 'white' wearing deities include but are not limited to Olufon (Obatala's first son), Oluorogbo, Orisa Ikire, Obarese, & Ogiyan. Obatala is their leader, their king.

The Obatala personage had several titles descriptive of his actions or choices. These include Etirigbo, Oseremagbo, Oba Ugbo, & Olufe to mention a few. They all reflected the shifts in or the trajectory/flow of his life and times.

Baba cool


The thing that set TAO11 and I on this theory spry is that the name "Ọbàtálá" seems to carry a connotation that is different from Aṣọ Àlà

Obatala himself is in no doubt in association with the colour white and the Aṣọ Àlà but the question is what else is he in association with that could be the possible original connotation of the name "Ọbàtálá"

1 Like

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 7:29pm On May 25
macof:
To be honest it is indeed "ọba". I was trying to make a point with examples like Baba/Bàbá and Ìbà where I was proposing a derivation from "bà" could produce a logical etymology. But it's too much a stretch for that to be the case with "Ọba". There was a bit of wishful thinking on my part
Got it!

Whichever of the three etymologies is truth, all three (the general, yours, and mine) agree that the actual phrase from which the ‘name’ Ọbàtálá derives has the word “Ọba,” (i.e. “King”), and NOT “Ọbà” (the personal name of a latter personage).

The phrase “Ọba Ìdẹ̀ta Ńlá” appears to me to have a greater explanatory scope/power than “Ọba Ti Àlà,” and “Ọba Tí Ó lá” for reasons among which is the one below:

This etymology (of all the three) is the only one which incorporates a linguistic explanation for the sound-shift from “Ọba” (in the etymological phrase) to the “Ọbà” (in the resulting ‘name’).

That is, the one-word contracted form (i.e. “Ọbàtálá”) from “Ọba Ìdẹ̀ta Ńlá“ appears to have had its “à” (as in “Ọbà”) as the result of an absorption of the do-sound of the “ì” (in “Ìdẹ̀ta”) by the actual “a” in “Ọba”.

This is similar to how its “á” (in “tá”) appears to have being the result of an absorption of the mi-sound of the “ń” (in “Ńlá”) by the actual “a” in “Ìdèta”.

And also similar to how “Ọba Ìloran” got contracted into “Ọbàloran. Or how “Ọba Ìdio” got contracted into “Ọbàdio” with the consistent sound absorptions.

My emphasis here is on the sound absorption. I know the explanation is quite dense, I trust however that you’ll catch it without any struggle.

Having said that, it appears to me that there isn’t any similarly consistent approach of explaining the sound transitions present in the two other etymologies, viz. the traditional or yours.

As a side note, did you see @0balufonIII’s point below?

0balufonlll:
founded & reigned at Iranje [and later, Ife].

His descendants resident in Iranje recorded a phenomenon sometime around the 19th century. This event was very impactful such that they thought to commemorate the event in a descriptive term [Idita] which was added to the original name of the town founded by Obatala. Hence, Iranje-Idita.

Obatala's descendants started Idita, several centuries after Obatala founded Iranje. It was a form of change and continuity.

What I'm trying to say is, your theory about the etymology of Obatala is not workable bro.

It appears contradictory to the received traditional accounts that Obatala himself did rule at Ìdẹ̀ta. I can cite historical references to this received tradition from professional/academic historians. And I trust you too can.

Reason why I don't think I can apply that baba /Bàbá logic is that, the word for father might be from baby talk baba/dada/papa etc
(just to add another theory to the mix grin)

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/words-mom-dad-similar-languages/409810/
Exactly the same point I was making when I said, and I quote, that:

Both [‘baba’ and ‘bàbá’ in Yoruba language] means father obviously, but the first appears clearly to have been the original Yoruba form vis-a-vis its etymology — from “ba,” viz. to “couch,” to “lord,” etc.

In the light of the foregoing, “bàbá” appears then to have been a form which evolved later from “baba” or/ and from other similarly-sounding words for “father” in other near/distant cultures.


Cheers!

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by 0balufonlll: 9:28pm On May 25
macof:


Baba cool


The thing that set TAO11 and I on this theory spry is that the name "Ọbàtálá" seems to carry a connotation that is different from Aṣọ Àlà

Obatala himself is in no doubt in association with the colour white and the Aṣọ Àlà but the question is what else is he in association with that could be the possible original connotation of the name "Ọbàtálá"

That is very possible.
It is just that my knowledge in that aspect is limited. I've tried to think beyond the associated white but nothing has come up.
Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by 0balufonlll: 9:36pm On May 25
X

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 10:13pm On May 25
0balufonlll:
Sadly I'll have to agree with Olu as far the bolded part of the quote goes.

Actually there are three classes of head dress for royalties in Yorubaland where I'm from. And in the order of 'arrival' they are:

1. Oro [Takes the place of Number 2]

2. Are [Now takes the place of Number 1 in seniority].

3. Ade.

Oro is the oldest & it signifies a strong pre-Oduduwa power.

Are is also a type of oro, originally worn by Obatala & handed to Obalufon. The difference is the bead fringes.

Ade are those head covers derived from or after Are.

The actual term is Are not Ade-Are. Are is different from Ade, they're not the same & not in the same class.

Below is a picture showing Oro. Compare it with the Are. You'll see the slight similarities.
But the point being made by Olu-the-scam-artist is actually different.

Scam artist Olu’s point is that Àrẹ Arè is the Yoruba equivalence of Crown, and that Adé is NOT.

Such point is a blatant and ignorant falsehood. But I am familiar with the valid point you made on the other hand.

Cc: rhektor, macof

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by 0balufonlll: 10:25pm On May 25
TAO11:
But the point being made by Olu-the-scam-artist is actually different.

Scam artist Olu’s point is that Àrẹ Arè is the Yoruba equivalence of Crown, and that Adé is NOT.

Such point is a blatant and ignorant falsehood. But I am familiar with the valid point you made on the other hand.

Cc: rhektor

Oh, I'll edit my post then.

Thank you.

1 Like

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 12:18am On May 26
macof:


undecided what about @rhektor 's post is this even relevant to??

That Yoruba language in Benin Republic is written with modified alphabets different from that written in Nigeria has no relevance to the point he is making. The tones don't change simply because it is Yoruba orthography in Benin Republic.
Besides let's even argue it does, you constantly give strange tone marks and alphabets to a word and never have you stated that you were using the orthography popular in Benin Republic

All this one na scam undecided




SMH. Everything you read from him didn't even marinate in your head, you just keep saying your own lmao grin

How is it scam? Lmao

That Yoruba language in Benin Republic is written with modified alphabets different from that written in Nigeria,which has no relevance to the point you point at
.

In as much you are ignorant, the tones don't change simply because it is Yoruba orthography in Benin Republic. Besides let's even juxtapose it, Do you constantly give strange tone marks to alphabetical word and you didn't state that you were using the orthography popular in Benin Republic to fine tune yoruba language

How is it scam? That Ȃrẹ isnt a crown or what? And I have posted Ompetu that calls it a crown. WhataboutI leifeEven Ileife ? These people have acknowledged it as a crown. Macof,what is your point?

Rhektor claimed I posted fake information but can only point out to Ábá as excuse! Lmao. In your own dialect , is father acute or grave in accent ? If indeed you want to be exemplary as a scholar ,then answer the quetion grin genuinely.

Are you aware that the latin orthography that yoruba loaned diacritic from have been modified There is more to these that meet the eyes
Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 5:21am On May 26
rhektor:


The screenshot you added here is neither historical nor fact. Coming from heaven in that context shows it to be a myth.
Now to the way the words are written in Benin Republic lol, my brother you're just trying to mix things up here. How would an English man look at the way words are written in Australia or America and then claim that, that is the correct way it should be written or pronounced? This seriously is a joke right?
You and I know that in Benin Republic the way they would understand, write and present whatever Yorùbá content would have been influenced by the environment they found themselves. You can not use the way these people write Yorùbá to justify anything here please. I wish you all the best in your work

NB: You still make a lot of blunders with the diacritics, for whatever reason you chose to please don't turn words upside down because of a preconceived opinion
Lol, if you conveniently claim that Benin Republic Yorubas, were influenced, then obviously you make Nigeria Yoruba superior through your comment.

Have you ever taken to read the Yoruba orthography writers ? A lot that meet the eyes is fuming up. Instantaneously , the Yoruba language too have variant and it has been stated that North Eastern Yorubas speakers dialect are the oldest form of Yoruba language and these dialects has a word and synonym in certain words. So, do not claim Benin orthography is not on equal status with Nigeria's Yoruba orthography.

Lastly if you claim , I am wrong or my persspective on Ȃrẹ, then it means, you have not verify my view. Below is a Yoruba dictionary's screenshot on "Ȃrẹ" which is over a century old, in terms of the year of the first set of production. Can the dictionary also be wrong diacritically ?

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 6:07am On May 26
Olu317:
Lol, if you conveniently claim that Benin Republic Yorubas, were influenced, then obviously you make Nigeria Yoruba superior through your comment.

Have you ever taken to read the Yoruba orthography writers ? A lot that meet the eyes is fuming up. Instantaneously , the Yoruba language too have variant and it has been stated that North Eastern Yorubas speakers dialect are the oldest form of Yoruba language and these dialects has a word and synonym in certain words. So, do not claim Benin orthography is not on equal status with Nigeria's Yoruba orthography.

Lastly if you claim , I am wrong or my persspective on Ȃrẹ, then it means, you have not verify my view. Below is a Yoruba dictionary's screenshot on “Ȃrẹ" which is over a century old, in terms of the year of the first set of production. Can the dictionary also be wrong diacritically?
You’re an ignoramus of the first order and degree.

First of all, the actual diacritic mark is NOT “^” (or whatever you’ve typed over the “A”). Rather, the actual diacritic mark in question is “~”.

Secondly, the “~” diacritic is an older Yoruba diacritic mark used specifically for elongation.

For instance, the present-day form “Ooni” used to be written with the older diacritic form “Õni”.

This old diacritic was in use in order to indicate that the “O” is elongated.

This diacritic has nothing to do with Benin Republic. It is a Yoruba diacritic. In fact, it was in use at a time when there was nothing like Benin Republic.

Stop your fraud TODAY!

Cc: rhektor, macof

3 Likes

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by rhektor(m): 7:12am On May 26
Olu317:
Lol, if you conveniently claim that Benin Republic Yorubas, were influenced, then obviously you make Nigeria Yoruba superior through your comment.

Have you ever taken to read the Yoruba orthography writers ? A lot that meet the eyes is fuming up. Instantaneously , the Yoruba language too have variant and it has been stated that North Eastern Yorubas speakers dialect are the oldest form of Yoruba language and these dialects has a word and synonym in certain words. So, do not claim Benin orthography is not on equal status with Nigeria's Yoruba orthography.

Lastly if you claim , I am wrong or my persspective on Ȃrẹ, then it means, you have not verify my view. Below is a Yoruba dictionary's screenshot on "Ȃrẹ" which is over a century old, in terms of the year of the first set of production. Can the dictionary also be wrong diacritically ?

Where in my comment did I claim that the Yorùbá in Republic of Benin is inferior?

Influenced = inferior - olu317 grin
Secondly, you don't just pick dictionary anyhow please, someone can not argue that a word written in Oxford advance learner dictionary published in the 1970s is more correct than the one published in the 2000s lol cheesy
My brother take the advice, it will do you a lot of good. Àmì fàágùn ~ is no longer in use, so I don't care what your archaic dictionary says, go and dump it in the trash bin where it belongs.
Besides, there was never a time when Yorùbá write the word Ààrẹ as ârẹ, what you Wil see in older publications is ãrẹ

Ẹ̀gbọ́n, ẹ nílò láti padà lọ sí ilé ẹ̀kọ́ jẹ́ lé o sinmi cheesy
Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by rhektor(m): 7:21am On May 26
Olu317:
How is it scam? Lmao

That Yoruba language in Benin Republic is written with modified alphabets different from that written in Nigeria,which has no relevance to the point you point at
.

In as much you are ignorant, the tones don't change simply because it is Yoruba orthography in Benin Republic. Besides let's even juxtapose it, Do you constantly give strange tone marks to alphabetical word and you didn't state that you were using the orthography popular in Benin Republic to fine tune yoruba language

How is it scam? That Ȃrẹ isnt a crown or what? And I have posted Ompetu that calls it a crown. WhataboutI leifeEven Ileife ? These people have acknowledged it as a crown. Macof,what is your point?

Rhektor claimed I posted fake information but can only point out to Ábá as excuse! Lmao. In your own dialect , is father acute or grave in accent ? If indeed you want to be exemplary as a scholar ,then answer the quetion grin genuinely.

Are you aware that the latin orthography that yoruba loaned diacritic from have been modified There is more to these that meet the eyes

You see this is the issue with you, you love to muddle things up so as to escape scrutiny.
I only make example of one of the things you wrote up there. That does not mean that is the only error in your work. You need to do a revision of your work please.
That Latin orthography which Yorùbás loan diacritics from has been modified does not mean we should follow suit. Has our own diacritics not been modified too? Should we keep running after others because they do something then we must do it too right?
Who exactly are your targeted audience? The Yorùbás in Benin Republic of Yorùbá worldwide? undecided
Admitting one's mistake does not kill anyone, it only show that you are up for new ideas.
So much for someone who claim to be researching but stick to 1800 ideologies

2 Likes

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by rhektor(m): 7:28am On May 26
0balufonlll:




Actually there are three classes of head dresses for royalties in Yorubaland where I'm from. And in the order of 'arrival' they are:

1. Oro [Takes the place of Number 2]

2. Are [Now takes the place of Number 1 in seniority].

3. Ade.

Oro is the oldest & it signifies a strong pre-Oduduwa power.

Are is also a type of oro, originally worn by Obatala & handed to Obalufon. The difference is the bead fringes.

Ade are those head covers derived from or after Are.

The actual term is Are not Ade-Are. Are is different from Ade, they're not the same & not in the same class.

Below is a picture showing Oro. Compare it with the Are. You'll see the slight similarities.

Point noted, thank you for the calcification.
However, please advise @olu317 on the use of diacritics as the misuse always misinform
Thank you once again

1 Like

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by 0balufonlll: 7:54am On May 26
rhektor:


Point noted, thank you for the calcification.
However, please advise @olu317 on the use of diacritics as the misuse always misinform
Thank you once again

Advise who?
Please o! I don't want such entanglement. grin
Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 9:14am On May 26
rhektor:


You see this is the issue with you, you love to muddle things up so as to escape scrutiny.
I only make example of one of the things you wrote up there. That does not mean that is the only error in your work. You need to do a revision of your work please.
That Latin orthography which Yorùbás loan diacritics from has been modified does not mean we should follow suit. Has our own diacritics not been modified too? Should we keep running after others because they do something then we must do it too right?
Who exactly are your targeted audience? The Yorùbás in Benin Republic of Yorùbá worldwide? undecided
Admitting one's mistake does not kill anyone, it only show that you are up for new ideas.
So much for someone who claim to be researching but stick to 1800 ideologies
Is that the ony dictionary ? Like I had mentioned, revisit books.
2. Diacritics on what ? There's imperfection in Yoruba diacritics In as much as , Yoruba language orthography is patterned after Latin and it diacritic ; circumflex, Grave and acute. So, stop accusation when you see dictionary to that effect.

Please help yourself more with comprehensive Yoruba dictions through below scholars works

*Abraham 1958 (Dictionary of Modern Yoruba)*

Adewole 2000 (Beginning Yorùbá, part I) Adewole 2001 (Beginning Yorùbá, part II)

Bamgbose 1966 (A Grammar of Yoruba)

Delano 1958 (Atúmò ede Yorùbá)

Ladipo 1972 (Oba Kò So)

Lindfors & Owomoyela 1973 (Yoruba proverbs)

Ogunbowale 1967 (The Essentials of the Yoruba language)

Rowlands 1969 (Teach yourself Yoruba)

Sachnine 1997 (Dictionnaire usuel yorùbá-français)

Ward 1952 (An Introduction to the Yoruba Language)

Although Yoruba of Nigeria are trying but need much work on modification of yoruba lexicons be done As far as Iam concerned , ibadan, use s to replace ṣ etc. This is not a default but pure accent.

Furthermore,among the Akokos , Oka- ufe group has
her dialect often replaces or substitute a front short spread vowel sound /i/ with a short back rounded vowel sound /u/ when compare with that of the Yoruba language, for examples:

Ise- Utse Job
Igba-Ugba time
Iwe-Uwe book
Ile-uli house
Ipe-upe calling
Igbo-ugbo bush
Ijo-udzo dancing
Olu-Elu lord
Okunrin-okinrin male
Obinrin obunrin female

Another most noticeable in the dialect is a palato-alveolar affricate voiced consonant /dz/ which it uses to substitute for /j/ in the Yoruba lexical items, as it can be seen below:
Yoruba Language Owalusin dialect English Language
Eje edze blood
Ijoye idzoje chief
Joka dzoka what/card
Ijala udzala oral poem for hunter
Eja edza fish
Ojogbon odzogben knowledgeable
Ajo adzo journey

Apart from this group other enclaves dialects have been reviewed thoroughly through out Yorubaland.

Lastly, I have never been an incorrectable personality. If Iam, then I must have been a spirit. Although far from it. So, nullify such in heart and understand it that ,it is not about self pride.
Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 9:48am On May 26
macof:


undecided what about @rhektor 's post is this even relevant to??

That Yoruba language in Benin Republic is written with modified alphabets different from that written in Nigeria has no relevance to the point he is making. The tones don't change simply because it is Yoruba orthography in Benin Republic.
Besides let's even argue it does, you constantly give strange tone marks and alphabets to a word and never have you stated that you were using the orthography popular in Benin Republic

All this one na scam undecided




SMH. Everything you read from him didn't even marinate in your head, you just keep saying your own lmao grin

Lmao!It is big lie that Yorubaof Nigeria have same accent with Beninios Yorubas of Benin Republic.
You people are just too funny grin . Infact Save/Sabe accent is so hard that you have to strain your ears to understand it even though they speak Yoruba dialect.


Furthermore,
Crown is fila but a kind of cap strictly worn by kings
Cap is fila
Ade is that is worn,one who is majestic,royalty,crown etc
Ade Are: One who wears highest kind of crown; name of the crown butitis a crown
Isembaye: as from time immemorial,from earliest of time,from inception.


Note: rhektor

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by macof(m): 10:38am On May 26
Olu317:
Is that the ony dictionary ? Like I had mentioned, revisit books.
2. Diacritics on what ? There's imperfection in Yoruba diacritics In as much as , Yoruba language orthography is patterned after Latin and it diacritic ; circumflex, Grave and acute. So, stop accusation when you see dictionary to that effect.

Please help yourself more with comprehensive Yoruba dictions through below scholars works

*Abraham 1958 (Dictionary of Modern Yoruba)*

Adewole 2000 (Beginning Yorùbá, part I) Adewole 2001 (Beginning Yorùbá, part II)

Bamgbose 1966 (A Grammar of Yoruba)

Delano 1958 (Atúmò ede Yorùbá)

Ladipo 1972 (Oba Kò So)

Lindfors & Owomoyela 1973 (Yoruba proverbs)

Ogunbowale 1967 (The Essentials of the Yoruba language)

Rowlands 1969 (Teach yourself Yoruba)

Sachnine 1997 (Dictionnaire usuel yorùbá-français)

Ward 1952 (An Introduction to the Yoruba Language)

Although Yoruba of Nigeria are trying but need much work on modification of yoruba lexicons be done As far as Iam concerned , ibadan, use s to replace ṣ etc. This is not a default but pure accent.

Furthermore,among the Akokos , Oka- ufe group has
her dialect often replaces or substitute a front short spread vowel sound /i/ with a short back rounded vowel sound /u/ when compare with that of the Yoruba language, for examples:

Ise- Utse Job
Igba-Ugba time
Iwe-Uwe book
Ile-uli house
Ipe-upe calling
Igbo-ugbo bush
Ijo-udzo dancing
Olu-Elu lord
Okunrin-okinrin male
Obinrin obunrin female

Another most noticeable in the dialect is a palato-alveolar affricate voiced consonant /dz/ which it uses to substitute for /j/ in the Yoruba lexical items, as it can be seen below:
Yoruba Language Owalusin dialect English Language
Eje edze blood
Ijoye idzoje chief
Joka dzoka what/card
Ijala udzala oral poem for hunter
Eja edza fish
Ojogbon odzogben knowledgeable
Ajo adzo journey

Apart from this group other enclaves dialects have been reviewed thoroughly through out Yorubaland.

Lastly, I have never been an incorrectable personality. If Iam, then I must have been a spirit. Although far from it. So, nullify such in heart and understand it that ,it is not about self pride.

All these things has nothing to do with the point at all.

You are just running all over the place, because your "Ȃrẹ" is neither Akokoid nor Yoruba dialects in Akoko or Benin Republic.
And none of the dictionaries or random Screenshots you keep posting show that word as crown or a type of crown

Go back to that Rhektor's post I quoted to learn how to write what you are trying to write with this "Ȃrẹ"
I guess you have never heard the crown called before.. You only read about it without diacritics and are forced to assume its pronunciation grin
You are talking to people here who actually know how it's pronounced

1 Like

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by rhektor(m): 2:06pm On May 26
Olu317:
Is that the ony dictionary ? Like I had mentioned, revisit books.
2. Diacritics on what ? There's imperfection in Yoruba diacritics In as much as , Yoruba language orthography is patterned after Latin and it diacritic ; circumflex, Grave and acute. So, stop accusation when you see dictionary to that effect.

Please help yourself more with comprehensive Yoruba dictions through below scholars works

*Abraham 1958 (Dictionary of Modern Yoruba)*

Adewole 2000 (Beginning Yorùbá, part I) Adewole 2001 (Beginning Yorùbá, part II)

Bamgbose 1966 (A Grammar of Yoruba)

Delano 1958 (Atúmò ede Yorùbá)

Ladipo 1972 (Oba Kò So)

Lindfors & Owomoyela 1973 (Yoruba proverbs)

Ogunbowale 1967 (The Essentials of the Yoruba language)

Rowlands 1969 (Teach yourself Yoruba)

Sachnine 1997 (Dictionnaire usuel yorùbá-français)

Ward 1952 (An Introduction to the Yoruba Language)

Although Yoruba of Nigeria are trying but need much work on modification of yoruba lexicons be done As far as Iam concerned , ibadan, use s to replace ṣ etc. This is not a default but pure accent.

Furthermore,among the Akokos , Oka- ufe group has
her dialect often replaces or substitute a front short spread vowel sound /i/ with a short back rounded vowel sound /u/ when compare with that of the Yoruba language, for examples:

Ise- Utse Job
Igba-Ugba time
Iwe-Uwe book
Ile-uli house
Ipe-upe calling
Igbo-ugbo bush
Ijo-udzo dancing
Olu-Elu lord
Okunrin-okinrin male
Obinrin obunrin female

Another most noticeable in the dialect is a palato-alveolar affricate voiced consonant /dz/ which it uses to substitute for /j/ in the Yoruba lexical items, as it can be seen below:
Yoruba Language Owalusin dialect English Language
Eje edze blood
Ijoye idzoje chief
Joka dzoka what/card
Ijala udzala oral poem for hunter
Eja edza fish
Ojogbon odzogben knowledgeable
Ajo adzo journey

Apart from this group other enclaves dialects have been reviewed thoroughly through out Yorubaland.

Lastly, I have never been an incorrectable personality. If Iam, then I must have been a spirit. Although far from it. So, nullify such in heart and understand it that ,it is not about self pride.

Ẹ̀gbọ́n, accent or no accent, the only thing that can distinguish dialects in written form all over the world is the right application of diacritics. Even the alphabet of the Arabic language uses diacritics, if you fail to apply it well your readers will be reading another meaning different from what you have in mind.
Baba, this long story is not needed sir

1 Like

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by rhektor(m): 2:07pm On May 26
0balufonlll:


Advise who?
Please o! I don't want such entanglement. grin

Off your mic sir cheesy

2 Likes

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 2:30pm On May 26
rhektor:
Off your mic sir cheesy
Lol.

1 Like

Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 2:34pm On May 26
rhektor:
Ẹ̀gbọ́n, accent or no accent, the only thing that can distinguish dialects in written form all over the world is the right application of diacritics. Even the alphabet of the Arabic language uses diacritics, if you fail to apply it well your readers will be reading another meaning different from what you have in mind.
Baba, this long story is not needed sir
LMAO!

Olu is actually a scam artist with a dirty and shameful agenda.

He has been sent out to do his shepherds’ bidding. He does not learn a thing.

He reminds me of the proverbial empty barrel.

1 Like

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