NobleRace:

Is this what TB Joshua told you? I doubt if you're a Christian. No Christian would dare turn the Bible upside down as you have just done.

"Christ, the only criteria by which a one who belongs to Jesus Christ is to be judged is by his/her fruits .i.e. whether or not such a one lives in obedience of the commandments of Jesus Christ, or not. "

The bolded above exposes your heresy.

In John 8:31, Jesus said "If ye obey my commandments, then are ye my disciples indeed."

There's no one who can bear the fruits of the Spirit without the spirit of God dwelling in him. The Spirit bears the fruits, and therefore, by the fruits shall they be known. That's why the scriptures say:

If anyone has not the spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:9.

You seem to be of the opinion that anyone who does good is of God. But the scriptures say "try every spirit, for Satan himself is disguised as an angel of light."

Read Revelation chapter 2 to 3, and observe the letter to the Churches. See the criterion Christ used to determine the Churches that are his. These same criterion apply to every believer.

if one has story to tell of how he/she was born or Spirit

You mean from the bolded above that someone would not be born of the Spirit, and he in his canal state, could be reckoned to be a child of God?

But Jesus said, "except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God." John 3:5.

I don't have the time right now to point all the error in your assertions above with scriptures. But, I must let you know that no one without a salvation experience can be truly adjudged to be a child of God. And if TB Joshua was saved, he certainly would share his salvation experience with the world. Just as he shared about his family.

I am not in any way affiliated with any of your Mogs and I don't know what mean by turning the bible upside down, so try to speak plainly and in detail so I better understand your point, if at all.

1. Jesus Christ declared "...by their fruits you shall know them" - Matthew 7 vs 15 -20 -, them being those who belong to Him from those who do not(.I.e. the sinners, false teachers and prophets). The same Jesus Christ also said, " Those who love me are those who know my comandments/rules and obey them" - John 14 vs 20 -21.

2. Jesus Christ did not teach you of "fruits of the Spirit",nor did He teach you that the fruits He spoke of where the "fruits of the Spirit" as mentioned by Paul in his letters.

No, what Jesus Christ told you is this....a good tree produces good fruits and a bad tree produces bad fruits. And we know that those who are of Him(good) are those who submit to and obey His teachings & commandments. This then making it safe to insist that good fruits are fruits of obedience where as bad fruits are fruits of disobedience, this of the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Truth of God.

3. Anyone who is "good" is of God and "good" here not according to the world's idea but measured by the standard set by God Himself in His Law, Jesus Christ. God is Good and no one who belongs to God, even through His New Covenant Law, Jesus Christ, would violate any of His comandments/rules that is the measure of goodness by God's standard. Those good submit to and obey God's commandments - Ezekiel 36 vs 27, - that is what His very Spirit is to help us continue to carefully achieve.

Satan may disguise himself as an angel of light but one thing he will never do is good in obedience to God's commandments, as that would be in direct contradiction of his very core code. Satan can feign the "fruits of the Spirit" as taught by Paul, but he can never bow in submission to and obedience of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

4. John suggests that you try every Spirit but was John speaking of trying Spirits outside of your person or the spirits inside of you as a person?

5. There are two gates into the Kingdom of God - the Narrow gate which leads to Heaven and the Broad gate which leads to Hell - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 - implying that even those who are headed for Hell are right there in the Kingdom of God, and this is somewhat confirmed by the parable of the wheat and tares as told by Jesus Christ. And according to John 3 vs 5, all those who enter into the Kingdom of God have to be "born of Spirit", but what it doesn't say is that the Spirit in question is of God.

So, it is unwise to judge a one by His salvation story as not all those who are "saved" are good .I.e. submit to and obey the commandments & teachings of Jesus Christ .I.e. bear good fruits.

Kobojunkie:
I am not in any way affiliated with any of your Mogs and I don't know what mean by turning the bible upside down, so try to speak plainly and in detail so I better understand your point, if at all.

1. Jesus Christ declared "...by their fruits you shall know them" - Matthew 7 vs 15 -20 -, them being those who belong to Him from those who do not(.I.e. the sinners, false teachers and prophets). The same Jesus Christ also said, " Those who love me are those who know my comandments/rules and obey them" - John 14 vs 20 -21.

2. Jesus Christ did not teach you of "fruits of the Spirit",nor did He teach you that the fruits He spoke of where the "fruits of the Spirit" as mentioned by Paul in his letters.

No, what Jesus Christ told you is this....a good tree produces good fruits and a bad tree produces bad fruits. And we know that those who are of Him(good) are those who submit to and obey His teachings & commandments. This then making it safe to insist that good fruits are fruits of obedience where as bad fruits are fruits of disobedience, this of the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Truth of God.

3. Anyone who is "good" is of God and "good" here not according to the world's idea but measured by the standard set by God Himself in His Law, Jesus Christ. God is Good and no one who belongs to God, even through His New Covenant Law, Jesus Christ, would violate any of His comandments/rules that is the measure of goodness by God's standard. Those good submit to and obey God's commandments - Ezekiel 36 vs 27, - that is what His very Spirit is to help us continue to carefully achieve.

Satan may disguise himself as an angel of light but one thing he will never do is good in obedience to God's commandments, as that would be in direct contradiction of his very core code. Satan can feign the "fruits of the Spirit" as taught by Paul, but he can never bow in submission to and obedience of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

4. John suggests that you try every Spirit but was John speaking of trying Spirits outside of your person or the spirits inside of you as a person?

5. There are two gates into the Kingdom of God - the Narrow gate which leads to Heaven and the Broad gate which leads to Hell - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 - implying that even those who are headed for Hell are right there in the Kingdom of God, and this is somewhat confirmed by the parable of the wheat and tares as told by Jesus Christ. And according to John 3 vs 5, all those who enter into the Kingdom of God have to be "born of Spirit", but what it doesn't say is that the Spirit in question is of God.

So, it is unwise to judge a one by His salvation story as not all those who are "saved" are good .I.e. submit to and obey the commandments & teachings of Jesus Christ .I.e. bear good fruits.

You need to start reading the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Some of your points up there are valid while some, especially the concluding parts are clearly heretic.

Being saved is the first thing that makes you a Christian. Now, you say we shouldn't judge anyone by his testimony of salvation? That's what I care about. After that, it's only Christ who knows those who are obeying Him. Except the disobedience is done openly, there's no way you can determine a person's walk with God.

When Paul attempted to join the apostles after his salvation experience, they rejected him. It took Barnabas to explain to them that he was saved before they could even listen to him. And before he could be accepted as a minister, he had to share his salvation experience as well as how he received his çall from God. According to Paul's Account in Ephesians 1, it was after that, that they now have him "the free hand of fellowship."

You seem to misunderstand that the two phrases 'kingdom of God' and 'Kingdom of Heaven' mean different things. You've muddled everything up there.

My advice to you is to get down to the scriptures under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If possible, get a spirit filled mentor who would explain things to you when your understanding fails.

You shouldn't be contributing to topics like these, because most of your assertions are completely over the bar.

Kobojunkie:
I am not in any way affiliated with any of your Mogs and I don't know what mean by turning the bible upside down, so try to speak plainly and in detail so I better understand your point, if at all.

1. Jesus Christ declared "...by their fruits you shall know them" - Matthew 7 vs 15 -20 -, them being those who belong to Him from those who do not(.I.e. the sinners, false teachers and prophets). The same Jesus Christ also said, " Those who love me are those who know my comandments/rules and obey them" - John 14 vs 20 -21.

2. Jesus Christ did not teach you of "fruits of the Spirit",nor did He teach you that the fruits He spoke of where the "fruits of the Spirit" as mentioned by Paul in his letters.

No, what Jesus Christ told you is this....a good tree produces good fruits and a bad tree produces bad fruits. And we know that those who are of Him(good) are those who submit to and obey His teachings & commandments. This then making it safe to insist that good fruits are fruits of obedience where as bad fruits are fruits of disobedience, this of the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Truth of God.

3. Anyone who is "good" is of God and "good" here not according to the world's idea but measured by the standard set by God Himself in His Law, Jesus Christ. God is Good and no one who belongs to God, even through His New Covenant Law, Jesus Christ, would violate any of His comandments/rules that is the measure of goodness by God's standard. Those good submit to and obey God's commandments - Ezekiel 36 vs 27, - that is what His very Spirit is to help us continue to carefully achieve.

Satan may disguise himself as an angel of light but one thing he will never do is good in obedience to God's commandments, as that would be in direct contradiction of his very core code. Satan can feign the "fruits of the Spirit" as taught by Paul, but he can never bow in submission to and obedience of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

4. John suggests that you try every Spirit but was John speaking of trying Spirits outside of your person or the spirits inside of you as a person?

5. There are two gates into the Kingdom of God - the Narrow gate which leads to Heaven and the Broad gate which leads to Hell - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 - implying that even those who are headed for Hell are right there in the Kingdom of God, and this is somewhat confirmed by the parable of the wheat and tares as told by Jesus Christ. And according to John 3 vs 5, all those who enter into the Kingdom of God have to be "born of Spirit", but what it doesn't say is that the Spirit in question is of God.

So, it is unwise to judge a one by His salvation story as not all those who are "saved" are good .I.e. submit to and obey the commandments & teachings of Jesus Christ .I.e. bear good fruits.

You need to start reading the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Some of your points up there are valid while some, especially the concluding parts are clearly heretic.

Being saved is the first thing that makes you a Christian. Now, you say we shouldn't judge anyone by his testimony of salvation? That's what I care about. After that, it's only Christ who knows those who are obeying Him. Except the disobedience is done openly, there's no way you can determine a person's walk with God.

When Paul attempted to join the apostles after his salvation experience, they rejected him. It took Barnabas to explain to them that he was saved before they could even listen to him. And before he could be accepted as a minister, he had to share his salvation experience as well as how he received his çall from God. According to Paul's Account in Ephesians 1, it was after that, that they now have him "the free hand of fellowship."

You seem to misunderstand that the two phrases 'kingdom of God' and 'Kingdom of Heaven' mean different things. You've muddled everything up there.

You also contradicted yourself, after saying it doesn't matter if the person obeys Christ or not. Now, you're saying only those who obey Christ are good.

My advice to you is to get down to the scriptures under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If possible, get a spirit filled mentor who would explain things to you when your understanding fails.

You shouldn't be contributing to topics like these, because most of your assertions are completely over the bar.

NobleRace:

You need to start reading the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Some of your points up there are valid while some, especially the concluding parts are clearly heretic.

Being saved is the first thing that makes you a Christian. Now, you say we shouldn't judge anyone by his testimony of salvation? That's what I care about. After that, it's only Christ who knows those who are obeying Him. Except the disobedience is done openly, there's no way you can determine a person's walk with God.

When Paul attempted to join the apostles after his salvation experience, they rejected him. It took Barnabas to explain to them that he was saved before they could even listen to him. And before he could be accepted as a minister, he had to share his salvation experience as well as how he received his çall from God. According to Paul's Account in Ephesians 1, it was after that, that they now have him "the free hand of fellowship."

You seem to misunderstand that the two phrases 'kingdom of God' and 'Kingdom of Heaven' mean different things. You've muddled everything up there.

You also contradicted yourself, after saying it doesn't matter if the person obeys Christ or not. Now, you're saying only those who obey Christ are good.

My advice to you is to get down to the scriptures under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If possible, get a spirit filled mentor who would explain things to you when your understanding fails.

You shouldn't be contributing to topics like these, because most of your assertions are completely over the bar.

1. Judas walked with Jesus Christ Himself for a period of just over if not about 3 years ; he too believed in Jesus Christ. And if he are to follow the story, he too had a salvation story to tell - He was among those who went around baptizing, healing the sick, casting out demons in the name of Jesus Christ and raising the dead even. If Judas, the son of Perdition had even these stories to tell, of what true worth are your salvation stories where God and the things of God are concerned?

2. As to what I stated of the Kingdom of God, let me re-state : - There are two gates into the Kingdom of God - the Narrow gate which leads to Heaven and the Broad gate which leads to Hell - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 - implying that even those who are headed for Hell are right there inside of the Kingdom of God. This phenomenon is somewhat confirmed by the parable of the wheat and tares as told by Jesus Christ where the good seeds and evils seeds are left go coexist until the time of Harvest - Matthew 13 vs 24 - 43.

In John 3 vs 5, we learn that all those who enter into the Kingdom of God have to be born of water and or Spirit, but what it doesn't say is that the Spirit in question is of God. In the same John 3 vs 8, Jesus Christ hints at the unpredictability of that which is born of Spirit.

Salvation which is a in fact a saving from the condemnation of sin(Death) is explained by Jesus Christ - John 3 vs 16 - 18 - as a believing of one in Him in order that one is redeemed from Death by perishing in the grave and instead gifted with eternal life , this ofcourse,according to John 6 vs 47- 56, one has to eat the body and drink the blood of Jesus Christ to receive eternal life.

Putting all this together, we she that not all those who have Salvation story to tell are of God , since a majority of them will enter the Kingdom through the Broad gate which leads to Hell, so it is faulty thinking to assume that having a salvatin story to tell is a good way to judge a person's stance with God.

We also have the example of Judas iscariot as the biggest reason never to judge by your so- called Salvation stories. Judas, the one called the son of perdition, walked with Jesus Christ for what amounts to just over 3 years, if not more. Judas went around with the group as they baptized , healed the sick, raised the dead, cast out demons and devils in the name of Jesus Christ. Judas was seen as one of the group. In fact the other disciples were likely convinced that he, Judas, was one of the simply because he was in their midst. But in the end it was revealed that though Judas believed, He did not belong to Jesus Christ, and this was because of disobedience.

Overall, it is foolisb to judge a one by His salvation story as not all those who are "saved" are good .I.e. submit to and obey the commandments & teachings of Jesus Christ /bear good fruits. It is instead best to stick to the standard set by Jesus Christ Himself who knows the Truth and by whom we are set free from sin.

3. Can you please point out the contradiction you claim. I mean I don't recall ever stating that one should not obey the Law of God. God is God of Laws and Jesus Christ is His New Covenant agreement delivered to man as Law in the Kingdom of God and we know that the Law is meant for our obedience, this the only way to obtaining that which God has promised.

4. As for judging by fruits of obedience being hidden,
well this is not according to Jesus Christ who, in Matthew 5 vs 14-16, commanded that we let the Light -the light in question being Jesus Christ Himself - shine in us. He went as far as to say that one does not lights candle and hide it underneath a bed, and for good reason.

If the Spirit of God is inside of one working the good thing of God - obedience of the commandments and teachings of God according to Ezekiel 36 vs 27 - how can that one not recognize the very same Spirit of God working inside of another to doing the very same thing? Jesus Christ already condemned our judging others by any standard other than God's own Standard, the Law - Matthew 7 vs 1 -5 - leaving us to recognizing others through just the one filter given up by God. Will those working the Words of God(Spirit) not then easily perceive others working the same Words of God(Spirit)?

Kobojunkie:
1. Judas walked with Jesus Christ Himself for a period of just over if not about 3 years ; he too believed in Jesus Christ. And if he are to follow the story, he too had a salvation story to tell - He was among those who went around baptizing, healing the sick, casting out demons in the name of Jesus Christ and raising the dead even. If Judas, the son of Perdition had even these stories to tell, of what true worth are your salvation stories where God and the things of God are concerned?

2. As to what I stated of the Kingdom of God, let me re-state : - There are two gates into the Kingdom of God - the Narrow gate which leads to Heaven and the Broad gate which leads to Hell - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 - implying that even those who are headed for Hell are right there inside of the Kingdom of God. This phenomenon is somewhat confirmed by the parable of the wheat and tares as told by Jesus Christ where the good seeds and evils seeds are left go coexist until the time of Harvest - Matthew 13 vs 24 - 43.

In John 3 vs 5, we learn that all those who enter into the Kingdom of God have to be born of water and or Spirit, but what it doesn't say is that the Spirit in question is of God. In the same John 3 vs 8, Jesus Christ hints at the unpredictability of that which is born of Spirit.

Salvation which is a in fact a saving from the condemnation of sin(Death) is explained by Jesus Christ - John 3 vs 16 - 18 - as a believing of one in Him in order that one is redeemed from Death by perishing in the grave and instead gifted with eternal life , this ofcourse,according to John 6 vs 47- 56, one has to eat the body and drink the blood of Jesus Christ to receive eternal life.

Putting all this together, we she that not all those who have Salvation story to tell are of God , since a majority of them will enter the Kingdom through the Broad gate which leads to Hell, so it is faulty thinking to assume that having a salvatin story to tell is a good way to judge a person's stance with God.

We also have the example of Judas iscariot as the biggest reason never to judge by your so- called Salvation stories. Judas, the one called the son of perdition, walked with Jesus Christ for what amounts to just over 3 years, if not more. Judas went around with the group as they baptized , healed the sick, raised the dead, cast out demons and devils in the name of Jesus Christ. Judas was seen as one of the group. In fact the other disciples were likely convinced that he, Judas, was one of the simply because he was in their midst. But in the end it was revealed that though Judas believed, He did not belong to Jesus Christ, and this was because of disobedience.

Overall, it is foolisb to judge a one by His salvation story as not all those who are "saved" are good .I.e. submit to and obey the commandments & teachings of Jesus Christ /bear good fruits. It is instead best to stick to the standard set by Jesus Christ Himself who knows the Truth and by whom we are set free from sin.

3. Can you please point out the contradiction you claim. I mean I don't recall ever stating that one should not obey the Law of God. God is God of Laws and Jesus Christ is His New Covenant agreement delivered to man as Law in the Kingdom of God and we know that the Law is meant for our obedience, this the only way to obtaining that which God has promised.

4. As for judging by fruits of obedience being hidden,
well this is not according to Jesus Christ who, in Matthew 5 vs 14-16, commanded that we let the Light -the light in question being Jesus Christ Himself - shine in us. He went as far as to say that one does not lights candle and hide it underneath a bed, and for good reason.

If the Spirit of God is inside of one working the good thing of God - obedience of the commandments and teachings of God according to Ezekiel 36 vs 27 - how can that one not recognize the very same Spirit of God working inside of another to doing the very same thing? Jesus Christ already condemned our judging others by any standard other than God's own Standard, the Law - Matthew 7 vs 1 -5 - leaving us to recognizing others through just the one filter given up by God. Will those working the Words of God(Spirit) not then easily perceive others working the same Words of God(Spirit)?

Let me tell you, a testimony of salvation is first and foremost a necessary prerequisite in determining a child of God. After the person gets saved, what he does with his salvation is between him and God.

Your arguments seem to suggest that since Judas Iscariot missed it in spite of the fact that he was saved, then the church should start admitting anyone into the pastoral ministry, whether they are saved or not. This position is clearly heretic. That means anyone can become a pastor in any guise whatsoever. The Apostles had no such tradition, neither the churches of the living God.

NobleRace:

Let me tell you, a testimony of salvation is first and foremost a necessary prerequisite in determining a child of God. After the person gets saved, what he does with his salvation is between him and God.

Your arguments seem to suggest that since Judas Iscariot missed it in spite of the fact that he was saved, then the church should start admitting anyone into the pastoral ministry, whether they are saved or not. This position is clearly heretic. That means anyone can become a pastor in any guise whatsoever. The Apostles had no such tradition, neither the churches of the living God.

Jesus Christ never held to any esteem this so-called testimony of Salvation you continue to go on and on about. What bothers me even more is that you are all too willing to ignore the standard Jesus Christ Himself set for us as far as judging whether a one belongs to Him or not - John 15 vs 20- 21 & Matthew 7 vs 15 - 20

Your churches and their pastoral ministries have nothing to with Jesus Christ, and the New Covenant Law of the Kingdom of God which He is. They are instead built on the doctrines and traditions of men, that which Jesus Christ Himself declared were lies that instead pull people away from God and the Truth of God - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14.

Your Pastors also have no place in the teachings of Jesus Christ- John 10 vs 7 - 16 - and were not called by God, who disavowed them in Ezekiel 34 vs 9 -16. God declared early in Jeremiah 31 vs 31 - 34, that He alone would be Teacher to all those who are of His New Covenant, a message repeated by Jesus Christ in John 6 vs 43 - 45.

Jesus Christ's Church, which He built with His own hands, refers to those who belong to His Kingdom - that is the Church that belongs to the Living God, a Church not built by men neither of man made structures.

So, if in God's Church, God( through Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God) alone is
* Teacher - Matthew 23 vs 8
* Shepherd - John 10 vs 1 - 16
* Master/ Lord/ Mentor - Mathew 23 vs 10
* Guide - John 16 vs 13
* Leader/Authority - Matthew 20 vs 24 - 28
* Father - Matthew 23 vs 9

...what exactly are your Pastors called to do in the Kingdom of God?

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ never held to any esteem this so-called testimony of Salvation you continue to go on and on about. What bothers me even more is that you are all too willing to ignore the standard Jesus Christ Himself set for us as far as judging whether a one belongs to Him or not - John 15 vs 20- 21 & Matthew 7 vs 15 - 20

Your churches and their pastoral ministries have nothing to with Jesus Christ, and the New Covenant Law of the Kingdom of God which He is. They are instead built on the doctrines and traditions of men, that which Jesus Christ Himself declared were lies that instead pull people away from God and the Truth of God - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14.

Your Pastors also have no place in the teachings of Jesus Christ- John 10 vs 7 - 16 - and were not called by God, who disavowed them in Ezekiel 34 vs 9 -16. God declared early in Jeremiah 31 vs 31 - 34, that He alone would be Teacher to all those who are of His New Covenant, a message repeated by Jesus Christ in John 6 vs 43 - 45.

Jesus Christ's Church, which He built with His own hands, refers to those who belong to His Kingdom - that is the Church that belongs to the Living God, a Church not built by men neither of man made structures.

So, if in God's Church, God( through Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God) alone is
* Teacher - Matthew 23 vs 8
* Shepherd - John 10 vs 1 - 16
* Master/ Lord/ Mentor - Mathew 23 vs 10
* Guide - John 16 vs 13
* Leader/Authority - Matthew 20 vs 24 - 28
* Father - Matthew 23 vs 9

...what exactly are your Pastors called to do in the Kingdom of God?

Will you take a pause for a while and listen to all these babblings of yours? How can you boldly state in the open space of a renown social media platform that salvation testimony isn't something Jesus set for those who'll be in the Kingdom? What profanity!!!

If you want to know what pastors are called to do, read Ephesians chapter 4. Your interpretation of scriptures is very insipid

You mean someone wouldn't be saved, and yet, he'll be rightly adjudged to be a child of God? What sort of polluted doctrine are you tinkering with?

NobleRace:

Will you take a pause for a while and listen to all these babblings of yours? How can you boldly state in the open space of a renown social media platform that salvation testimony isn't something Jesus set for those who'll be in the Kingdom? What profanity!!!

You mean someone wouldn't be saved, and yet, he'll be rightly adjusted to be a child of God? What sort of polluted doctrine are you tinkering with?

I can boldly state it because your Salvation stories which you tell yourselves as proof of your claim to be of Jesus Christ has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ, but are instead born of the doctrines and traditions of men which Jesus Christ thoroughly condemned - Matthew 15 vs 1- 14

Jesus Christ taught salvation as being key to entering into the Kingdom of God but He never taught that could be used as marker in determining who belongs to Him and who doesn't. You suggesting that it does , even though Jesus Christ never stated this,are doing so against the very teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ which instructs us against the teaching of lies - doctrines and traditions of men - in His name and Kingdom - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14

So in your mind,God lied in Ezekiel 34 vs 9-16 and then again in John 10 vs 1 - 16? Everything God declared in His New Covenant Law, Jesus Christ,
is not meant to be believed and this because your Mogs have convinced you so?
Your pastors are of most definitely called by God because you can quote Paul's letter to counter God's very own Words, His eternal Truth?

Polluted doctrine you say. I am preaching that which is written right there in scripture for everyone to know - The Gospel of the Kingdom of God, the Law and Truth of God, Jesus Christ. It is His doctrine that you seem to consider polluted.

P.S. Do you know what Salvation is meant to be from , as in what is it that a one who has Salvation is in fact saved from?

NobleRace:


You need to start reading the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Some of your points up there are valid while some, especially the concluding parts are clearly heretic.

Being saved is the first thing that makes you a Christian. Now, you say we shouldn't judge anyone by his testimony of salvation? That's what I care about. After that, it's only Christ who knows those who are obeying Him. Except the disobedience is done openly, there's no way you can determine a person's walk with God.

When Paul attempted to join the apostles after his salvation experience, they rejected him. It took Barnabas to explain to them that he was saved before they could even listen to him. And before he could be accepted as a minister, he had to share his salvation experience as well as how he received his çall from God. According to Paul's Account in Ephesians 1, it was after that, that they now have him "the free hand of fellowship."

You seem to misunderstand that the two phrases 'kingdom of God' and 'Kingdom of Heaven' mean different things. You've muddled everything up there.

You also contradicted yourself, after saying it doesn't matter if the person obeys Christ or not. Now, you're saying only those who obey Christ are good.

My advice to you is to get down to the scriptures under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If possible, get a spirit filled mentor who would explain things to you when your understanding fails.

You shouldn't be contributing to topics like these, because most of your assertions are completely over the bar.

Allow me help. We call it Conversion Experience. Every Pastoral person or Minister of position must have a conversion experience. Biblical example. Paul and the Damascus experience.


As rightly put as you said earlier, every Christian can have a confessional experience but a minister must have a conversional experience. Otherwise he or she is righteous from the womb and this posture nullifies scripture. It's an unwritten letter of the spirit, hence not too clear in the word.


Similar/Other experiences throughout scripture exists


1. Gideon had his in His call

2. Jesus converted Peter through the miraculous harvest of Fishes

3. Jesus did same with Philip




There has to be an intervention, interruption, disruption and total change of treaded path, which fulfills scripture that all had fallen short and each own turns his/her own way and then Grace steps in, and truncate the furnace of the wrong path travelled upon and steers the person in a new direction. Hence Paul said, that it pleased God who had foreknowledge and called him from the womb, that at the right time would cause a Revelation of Him through his life...


THERE ISN'T AUTOMATIC FLIGHT AS WITNESSED TODAY IN THE KINGDOM THAT IS OF GOD. FROM ORDINARY PERSON STRAIGHT TO MIRACLE PERFORMING G.O.NOPE.ON THE KINGDOM, PROCESS IS SOMETHING GOD DOESN'T DO AWAY WITH, AND FOR A MINISTER, A CONVERSION PROCESS THOUGH MANY TIMES EMBARRASSING IS A MUST.


Allow me find small trouble. People knew TB Joshua as a spiritualist in the 80s and all of a sudden transforms into a miracle performer with no conversion experience. Haba.

GreenFarmsNG:




Allow me help. We call it Conversion Experience. Every Pastoral person or Minister of position must have a conversion experience. Biblical example. Paul and the Damascus experience.


As rightly put as you said earlier, every Christian can have a confessional experience but a minister must have a conversional experience. Otherwise he or she is righteous from the womb and this posture nullifies scripture. It's an unwritten letter of the spirit, hence not too clear in the word.


Similar/Other experiences throughout scripture exists


1. Gideon had his in His call

2. Jesus converted Peter through the miraculous harvest of Fishes

3. Jesus did same with Philip




There has to be an intervention, interruption, disruption and total change of treaded path, which fulfills scripture that all had fallen short and each own turns his/her own way and then Grace steps in, and truncate the furnace of the wrong path travelled upon and steers the person in a new direction. Hence Paul said, that it pleased God who had foreknowledge and called him from the womb, that at the right time would cause a Revelation of Him through his life...


THERE ISN'T AUTOMATIC FLIGHT AS WITNESSED TODAY IN THE KINGDOM THAT IS OF GOD. FROM ORDINARY PERSON STRAIGHT TO MIRACLE PERFORMING G.O.NOPE.ON THE KINGDOM, PROCESS IS SOMETHING GOD DOESN'T DO AWAY WITH, AND FOR A MINISTER, A CONVERSION PROCESS THOUGH MANY TIMES EMBARRASSING IS A MUST.


Allow me find small trouble. People knew TB Joshua as a spiritualist in the 80s and all of a sudden transforms into a miracle performer with no conversion experience. Haba.

Thanks for your insightful mention.

Kobojunkie:
I can boldly state it because your Salvation stories which you tell yourselves as proof of your claim to be of Jesus Christ has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ, but are instead born of the doctrines and traditions of men which Jesus Christ thoroughly condemned - Matthew 15 vs 1- 14

Jesus Christ taught salvation as being key to entering into the Kingdom of God but He never taught that could be used as marker in determining who belongs to Him and who doesn't. You suggesting that it does , even though Jesus Christ never stated this,are doing so against the very teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ which instructs us against the teaching of lies - doctrines and traditions of men - in His name and Kingdom - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14

So in your mind,God lied in Ezekiel 34 vs 9-16 and then again in John 10 vs 1 - 16? Everything God declared in His New Covenant Law, Jesus Christ,
is not meant to be believed and this because your Mogs have convinced you so?
Your pastors are of most definitely called by God because you can quote Paul's letter to counter God's very own Words, His eternal Truth?

Polluted doctrine you say. I am preaching that which is written right there in scripture for everyone to know - The Gospel of the Kingdom of God, the Law and Truth of God, Jesus Christ. It is His doctrine that you seem to consider polluted.

P.S. Do you know what Salvation is meant to be from , as in what is it that a one who has Salvation is in fact saved from?

Look, carry your false teachings elsewhere. Non of your points align with scriptures. I can see you're a lone ranger trying to misinterpret and misrepresent the faith.

You're the one peddling your own doctrines here. The conversion experience is scripturally valid. That's the deviding line between the old man and the new. Hebrews 6 calls it the foundation of the Christian faith. Hebrews 6 calls it the fundamentals of the doctrine of Christ.

I don't have the time to answer you from scripture to scriptures. Perhaps later on, I will.

Your misrepresentation of John 3:5 calls for scrutiny. You don't know God. You even said Jesus didn't state what spirit a mam should be born with to enter the kingdom of God. This is purely the doctrine of demons.

The Spirit in John 3:5 is written in capital letter 'S' clearly indicating the Spirit of God! Have you ever even read the Hebraic and Greek Texts to understand the literal imports of scripture?

Tonight, I'll create time for you. Perhaps, by the grace of God, thr Holy Spirit would work on you to deliver you from the delusional path in which the princes of hell have placed your soul.

NobleRace:

Look, carry your false teachings elsewhere. Non of your points align with scriptures. I can see you're a lone ranger trying to misinterpret and misrepresent the faith.

You're the one peddling your own doctrines here. The conversion experience is scripturally valid. That's the deviding line between the old man and the new. Hebrews 6 calls it the foundation of the Christian faith. Hebrews 6 calls it the fundamentals of the doctrine of Christ.

I don't have the time to answer you from scripture to scriptures. Perhaps later on, I will.

Your misrepresentation of John 3:5 calls for scrutiny. You don't know God. You even said Jesus didn't state what spirit a mam should be born with to enter the kingdom of God. This is purely the doctrine of demons.

The Spirit in John 3:5 is written in capital letter 'S' clearly indicating the Spirit of God! Have you ever even read the Hebraic and Greek Texts to understand the literal imports of scripture?

Tonight, I'll create time for you. Perhaps, by the grace of God, thr Holy Spirit would work on you to deliver you from the delusional path in which the princes of hell have placed your soul.

I see you like to level accusations at others without tackling head on the exact parts of their statement for which you claim you have problems with. I had peddled no doctrine of my own except tell the Truth as written of in Scripture through God Himself.

1. The Law Himself, tells you nothing of your conversion experience, implying it is of no importance where the Kingdom of God is concerned. Instead, the focus of the Law in its entirety same as every other Law that God has given man is placed on total submission and obedience, the dividing line between those who belong to God and those who do not. Adam fell from God because he did not submit to and obey God's commandments to him.

2. As for John 3 vs 1- 21, Jesus Christ Himself did not mention any Spirit in particularly and we know that there are all kinds of Spirits written of, even demons and devils are classified as Spirits. So, I am not certain why you are having a hard time with that one.

Whether you chose to capitalize the "S" or not in your own writings, means nothing here and the greek text is of no value here since what is written there still in human language can be clearly comprehended by those willing to use the understanding they have(basic language comprehension skills to start with). The experience Jesus Christ spoke of in that verse happens to all those who enter into the Kingdom of God be it through the Broad gate that leads to Hell - surely you know enough that the Spirit of God does not live in that which is unholy- , and in those few who enter into the Kingdom of God through the Narrow Gate.

3. Pray instead for your own self, that God helps rid you of the doctrines and tradition of men, lies where God's Truth is concerned so you can finally see. God's Truth (Law) has been available to man for at least 2000 years. Anyone still blind to what the Law stipulates, is to blame for his/her arrogance and ignorance.

Kobojunkie:
I see you like to level accusations at others without tackling head on the exact parts of their statement for which you claim you have problems with. I had peddled no doctrine of my own except tell the Truth as written of in Scripture through God Himself.

1. The Law Himself, tells you nothing of your conversion experience, implying it is of no importance where the Kingdom of God is concerned. Instead, the focus of the Law in its entirety same as every other Law that God has given man is placed on total submission and obedience, the dividing line between those who belong to God and those who do not. Adam fell from God because he did not submit to and obey God's commandments to him.

2. As for John 3 vs 1- 21, Jesus Christ Himself did not mention any Spirit in particularly and we know that there are all kinds of Spirits written of, even demons and devils are classified as Spirits. So, I am not certain why you are having a hard time with that one.

Whether you chose to capitalize the "S" or not in your own writings, means nothing here and the greek text is of no value here since what is written there still in human language can be clearly comprehended by those willing to use the understanding they have(basic language comprehension skills to start with). The experience Jesus Christ spoke of in that verse happens to all those who enter into the Kingdom of God be it through the Broad gate that leads to Hell - surely you know enough that the Spirit of God does not live in that which is unholy- , and in those few who enter into the Kingdom of God through the Narrow Gate.

3. Pray instead for your own self, that God helps rid you of the doctrines and tradition of men, lies where God's Truth is concerned so you can finally see. God's Truth (Law) has been available to man for at least 2000 years. Anyone still blind to what the Law stipulates, is to blame for his/her arrogance and ignorance.

Before I go any further, let me ask you, 'how do you as an individual know someone who has entered into the kingdom of God?'

NobleRace:

Before I go any further, let me ask you, 'how do you as an individual know someone who has entered into the kingdom of God?'

Anyone can claim to have entered into the Kingdom of God. So long as the person believes in Jesus Christ, has been baptized i water, and has eaten of the body and drunk of the blood of Jesus Christ, the person is likely inthe Kingdom of God. But recall that not all those who enter into the Kingdom of God are of God - the Parable of the wheat and tares, Matthew 13 vs 24 -40

However, to know if a person belongs to Jesus Christ, I follow Jesus Christ's instruction, observing the fruits if such a claim. A person who belongs to Jesus Christ is one who focus is solely on submitting to and obeying the commandments & teachings of Jesus Christ - good fruits where the Kingdom of God is concerned. Such a person understands that it is ultimately the way to God and pleasing God - nothing else will do.

Kobojunkie:
Anyone can claim to have entered into the Kingdom of God. So long as the person believes in Jesus Christ, has been baptized i water, and has eaten of the body and drunk of the blood of Jesus Christ, the person is likely inthe Kingdom of God. But recall that not all those who enter into the Kingdom of God are of God - the Parable of the wheat and tares, Matthew 13 vs 24 -40

However, to know if a person belongs to Jesus Christ, I follow Jesus Christ's instruction, observing the fruits if such a claim. A person who belongs to Jesus Christ is one who focus is solely on submitting to and obeying the commandments & teachings of Jesus Christ - good fruits where the Kingdom of God is concerned. Such a person understands that it is ultimately the way to God and pleasing God - nothing else will do.

That sudden change in the person to put faith in Jesus Christ and submit to His perfect will is what we call the testimony of salvation.

The fellow was previously walking in disobedience. He repented. Changed his ways. Submitted to the Lordship of Christ. That's the testimony of salvation. He'll struggle in the beginning to obey because of the weakness of the flesh, but he picks himself up whenever he fails. He no longer rejoices in his sins. He has a conviction each time leading him to ask God for pardon, and so carries on with his walk with God. The testimony of this changed life is the testimony of salvation.

Also, note that everywhere in scripture, where the word spirit starts with the Capital S, is a reference to the Holy Spirit. All student of the Bible are aware of this. Spirit, Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost are all references to the Holy Spirit. The spirit of man or any other spirit are always written in small letter 's'. Please, take note. You can compare different verses of scripture to confirm this. So John 5:3 is referencing that you must be born of water and of the Holy Spirit to enter the kingdom of God. This is the concept of being born again as in 1Peter 1:23.

There are two ways leading to eternity and not the kingdom of God. One to eternal life and the other to eternal damnation. The kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost (Romans 14:17). There's no hell fire in the kingdom of God.

Hell fire is a separate place of punishment for the devil and all who obey him.

NobleRace:

That sudden change in the person to put faith in Jesus Christ and submit to His perfect will is what we call the testimony of salvation.

The fellow was previously walking in disobedience. He repented. Changed his ways. Submitted to the Lordship of Christ. That's the testimony of salvation. He'll struggle in the beginning to obey because of the weakness of the flesh, but he picks himself up whenever he fails. He no longer rejoices in his sins. He has a conviction each time leading him to ask God for pardon, and so carries on with his walk with God. The testimony of this changed life is the testimony of salvation.

Also, note that everywhere in scripture, where the word spirit starts with the Capital S, is a reference to the Holy Spirit. All student of the Bible are aware of this. Spirit, Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost are all references to the Holy Spirit. The spirit of man or any other spirit are always written in small letter 's'. Please, take note. You can compare different verses of scripture to confirm this. So John 5:3 is referencing that you must be born of water and of the Holy Spirit to enter the kingdom of God. This is the concept of being born again as in 1Peter 1:23.

There are two ways leading to eternity and not the kingdom of God. One to eternal life and the other to eternal damnation. The kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost (Romans 14:17). There's no hell fire in the kingdom of God.

Hell fire is a separate place of punishment for the devil and all who obey him.

1. There is no such thing as a "sudden" change to put faith in Jesus Christ and His perfect Will, the human mind does not work that way, let alone the heart, body and soul. It is instead a gradual process, which requires a lot of self-conviction - does not happen overnight either - to go from unbeliever to one who is ready and willing to submit to obeying the comandments/rules of God.

Repentance, as preached by John the Baptist, and then Jesus Christ, does not connote mental assent to stop sinning. No, instead it is a decision to be made in mind, body, heart, and soul to change one's life and heart - sin habits - to chose instead obedience of that which God commands. Action is necessary for this change to take place in a person and action in the direction of obedience rather than continuing in disobedience.

That is why in Matthew 3 vs 7-11, when John the Baptist saw the Pharisees approaching Him, also wanting to be baptized, he warned them to first to back and change their lives and hearts before they can be baptized.

2. As for your conclusion on the use of capital "S" in scripture to connote the Spirit of God, I am afraid you are very much mistaken, unless you are here suggesting that the teachings recorded in John 3 vs 5 as a result of some error of omission on the part of Jesus Christ.

Now, according to Jesus Christ, only after one has been made perfect/holy will the Father(the Spirit of God) come and make His home in, and this (holiness/perfection) can be attained through submission and obedience of the comandments/rules of Jesus - John 14 vs 20 -21.
So, no one who has only just entered into the Kingdom of God is holy to receive the Spirit of God in them. Jesus Christ said to those who believed in Him, this in John 8 vs 31 - 40, they must first break free of slavery to sin and this by submitting to the Truth(teachings & laws of Jesus Christ) for it is only by Knowing the Truth that they are set free by the Truth. As you can see, there is a process involved to obtaining the Spirit of God( the mark of righteousness) and so your assertions that those who repent are immediately born of the Spirit of God Himself is nothing short of deceit.

3. In[b] 1 Peter 1 vs. 23[/b], the writer does not make mention of the Spirit of God but instead speaks of eternal life, the result of Salvation, which I already mentioned about 2 posts ago, belongs to everyone who enters into the Kingdom of God, regardless of the gate through which a one entered in through, for everyone who enters enters into eternal life.

4. Jesus Christ never taught on 2 ways into Eternal life. Instead, He taught that the one way to obtain eternal life is to believe in and eat of His body and drink of His blood - John 6 vs 47 - 56. There are no 2 kinds to eternal life as there is one and Jesus Christ is the Eternal life that we all obtain from doing as He has commanded in John 6 vs 47 - 56.
Eternal life does not have gates..it is instead received through the eating and drinking of real food just as Jesus Christ said. Instead what does is the Kingdom of God and in Matthew 7 vs 13-14, rightly teaches of 2 gates into such a Kingdom which in John 3 vs 1 -21, He goes on to speak of how to enter into said Kingdom. In the parable of wheat and tares, He speaks of two different species living together right there inside of the Kingdom of God - Matthew 13 vs 24 -30. Tell me, was Jesus Christ mistaken?

As to the place of Hell, Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 explains clearly that those who are bound for hell are eternally (eternal life/consciousness is theirs as well) damned - eternal life belongs to those in the Kingdom of God( not those outside of it) - John 6 vs 46 - 57 - this since they also believe in Jesus Christ and who do enter into the Kingdom of God. Of course we already know the demons and devils believe - this according to James.

* When you read scripture, learn to take it all on so you clearly bigger picture and not walk away with fragments that don't fit properly together. Try to read each book the same way you would read a favorite novel, digesting each and every detail from beginning to end, before moving on to other books. That way you not only gets better sense of the message but also see for yourself what the writer is in fact attempting to say, in his way.

Kobojunkie:
1. There is no such thing as a "sudden" change to put faith in Jesus Christ and His perfect Will, the human mind does not work that way, let alone the heart, body and soul. It is instead a gradual process, which requires a lot of self-conviction - does not happen overnight either - to go from unbeliever to one who is ready and willing to submit to obeying the comandments/rules of God.

Repentance, as preached by John the Baptist, and then Jesus Christ, does not connote mental assent to stop sinning. No, instead it is a decision to be made in mind, body, heart, and soul to change one's life and heart - sin habits - to chose instead obedience of that which God commands. Action is necessary for this change to take place in a person and action in the direction of obedience rather than continuing in disobedience.

That is why in Matthew 3 vs 7-11, when John the Baptist saw the Pharisees approaching Him, also wanting to be baptized, he warned them to first to back and change their lives and hearts before they can be baptized.

2. As for your conclusion on the use of capital "S" in scripture to connote the Spirit of God, I am afraid you are very much mistaken, unless you are here suggesting that the teachings recorded in John 3 vs 5 as a result of some error of omission on the part of Jesus Christ.

Now, according to Jesus Christ, only after one has been made perfect/holy will the Father(the Spirit of God) come and make His home in, and this (holiness/perfection) can be attained through submission and obedience of the comandments/rules of Jesus - John 14 vs 20 -21.
So, no one who has only just entered into the Kingdom of God is holy to receive the Spirit of God in them. Jesus Christ said to those who believed in Him, this in John 8 vs 31 - 40, they must first break free of slavery to sin and this by submitting to the Truth(teachings & laws of Jesus Christ) for it is only by Knowing the Truth that they are set free by the Truth. As you can see, there is a process involved to obtaining the Spirit of God( the mark of righteousness) and so your assertions that those who repent are immediately born of the Spirit of God Himself is nothing short of deceit.

3. In[b] 1 Peter 1 vs. 23[/b], the writer does not make mention of the Spirit of God but instead speaks of eternal life, the result of Salvation, which I already mentioned about 2 posts ago, belongs to everyone who enters into the Kingdom of God, regardless of the gate through which a one entered in through, for everyone who enters enters into eternal life.

4. Jesus Christ never taught on 2 ways into Eternal life. Instead, He taught that the one way to obtain eternal life is to believe in and eat of His body and drink of His blood - John 6 vs 47 - 56. There are no 2 kinds to eternal life as there is one and Jesus Christ is the Eternal life that we all obtain from doing as He has commanded in John 6 vs 47 - 56.
Eternal life does not have gates..it is instead received through the eating and drinking of real food just as Jesus Christ said. Instead what does is the Kingdom of God and in Matthew 7 vs 13-14, rightly teaches of 2 gates into such a Kingdom which in John 3 vs 1 -21, He goes on to speak of how to enter into said Kingdom. In the parable of wheat and tares, He speaks of two different species living together right there inside of the Kingdom of God - Matthew 13 vs 24 -30. Tell me, was Jesus Christ mistaken?

As to the place of Hell, Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 explains clearly that those who are bound for hell are eternally (eternal life/consciousness is theirs as well) damned - eternal life belongs to those in the Kingdom of God( not those outside of it) - John 6 vs 46 - 57 - this since they also believe in Jesus Christ and who do enter into the Kingdom of God. Of course we already know the demons and devils believe - this according to James.

* When you read scripture, learn to take it all on so you clearly bigger picture and not walk away with fragments that don't fit properly together. Try to read each book the same way you would read a favorite novel, digesting each and every detail from beginning to end, before moving on to other books. That way you not only gets better sense of the message but also see for yourself what the writer is in fact attempting to say, in his way.

1. Yesterday, someone was a sinner. He drank himself full, womanized and even faught dirty at a joint. Today, the Holy Spirit arrested him (He might have been working on him for a long time) after receiving a ministration that penetrated his heart. The ministration could be a song, a gospel message, an event or even a gentle thought. He sees the folly of his ways, repents and turns a new leaf. Desiring earnestly to right himself with his maker. What people would see is the sudden change. They wonder why he who so vilely spent his time yesterday, is now earnestly seeking God.

Whether, the change is sudden or gradual isn't the issue here. The issue is that he changed. He has a new heart. The change and the events leading to it all make up his testimony of salvation. He could now say 'Once I was blind, but now I can see.' He abandons the path of hell which he has so blindly trodden, and now by the illumination of the Holy Spirit begins to tread the path of eternal life.

2. The paths leading to eternity are 2. The path leading to eternal life is 1. Read my last mention again. My emphasis regarding the two paths is on eternity and not on eternal life. Eternity consists of eternal life and eternal damnation.

3. On the parable of the tare, you err greatly. To say that both the wheat and the tares were growing together in the kingdom of God is a great disservice to God's Kingdom. For the sake of people like you who might want to wrest the word of God to favour their own private interpretations, Jesus Christ expressly explained the parable to His disciples saying "The field is this earth. The angels are the reapers. And the harvest is the end of this world." While Jesus Christ clearly explained that the field where both the wheat and the tares grow together is this earth, you're here claiming again and again that the wheat and the tares were growing in the kingdom of God. Is the earth the kingdom of God? Or are you saying everybody including Satan is in the kingdom of God?

4. I have noticed in your previous mentions that you tend to separate Paul's writings from the Word of God. You say 'Paul said' but 'God said'. That's a great error. God has never spoken directly in Scripture, except in the voice that came to Jesus as He was being baptized, and the old testament incident of Horeb where God spoke directly to the people. God's word has always been spoken through men.

Regarding Paul's writings, Peter wrote in
◄ 2 Peter 3:16 ►

"As also in all his (Paul's) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

Take note of the bolded. Paul's writings are part of the scriptures. They constitute the infallible word of God. Peter clarified it thus:

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:20-21.

Again, the Bible says:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:16.

Paul's writings are established as the inspired word of God.

4. Your assertion about the capital 'S' in reference to the Spirit of God is based on an acute ignorance of Biblical interpretation. I can do a whole exegesis on these things for you to see clearly that the Bible writes spirits and Spirit. The capital S starting the word connotes the Holy Spirit. This is globally recognized by Bible scholars in all ages. Each time the Bible uses the small 's' in the word, it refers to any other spirits. To avoid confusion, the Bible clearly differentiates between the Spirit of God and other spirits. Even in that same John 3. '...born of water and of Spirit'. Then, 'whatsoever is born of spirit (any spirit) is spirit. Whatsoever is born of flesh is flesh.' Meaning the offspring must take the form of its progenitor. This capitalization style appears also in Son of man (Jesus Christ) and son of man (you and I). A little perusal of the scriptures would confirm this to you. Your argument on this is absolutely uncalled for.

5. Too much errors in your interpretations. No one is saved or comes to confess Jesus as His Lord and personal Savior genuinely without the Holy Spirit.

The Mystery of Salvation

When a soul receives illumination, he repents and asks for forgiveness. The Lord the takes him up and washes him clean in His blood. He becomes a new creature. At that point of his cleansing, his heart becomes habitable for the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God comes to dwell in him immediately. He awakens his conscience. The man becomes conscious of sin. He's not yet perfect. He is expected to keep walking towards perfection. He's still a baby in Christ. He continues to cleanse himself as he studies the word of God and grows. The Holy Spirit begins to get more and more room to work and to move in his life, and when he attains maturity, he becomes a useful instrument to bless others and bring them into salvation.

Regarding your take on pastors and men of God generally, I'll do justice to this in my next mention.

Noblerace,
Don't know you from Adam, however you are undoubtedly a student of the Word....and clearly from what I've read here in the last few replies to the other poster (because I haven't read through the entire thread or all of your comments on it) are also a teacher.
You have explained this very well.
That's all I would like to say.

Eviana:
Noblerace,
Don't know you from Adam, however you are undoubtedly a student of the Word....and clearly from what I've read here in the last few replies to the other poster (because I haven't read through the entire thread or all of your comments on it) are also a teacher.
You have explained this very well.
That's all I would like to say.

Thank you very much sir. God bless your soul.

NobleRace:


Thank you very much sir. God bless your soul.

You made a mistake though at the above bolded red: It's "ma'am".....not "sir". I am very much a female born of a female. Some people on N.L. desperately wish I was a male, but I am incapable of making that wish come true....nor do I want to..with all due respect.
You are welcome.
May you continue to rightly divide the word of God....which is truth.

NobleRace:


1. Yesterday, someone was a sinner. He drank himself full, womanized and even faught dirty at a joint. Today, the Holy Spirit arrested him (He might have been working on him for a long time) after receiving a ministration that penetrated his heart. The ministration could be a song, a gospel message, an event or even a gentle thought. He sees the folly of his ways, repents and turns a new leaf. Desiring earnestly to right himself with his maker. What people would see is the sudden change. They wonder why he who so vilely spent his time yesterday, is now earnestly seeking God.

Whether, the change is sudden or gradual isn't the issue here. The issue is that he changed. He has a new heart. The change and the events leading to it all make up his testimony of salvation. He could now say 'Once I was blind, but now I can see.' He abandons the path of hell which he has so blindly trodden, and now by the illumination of the Holy Spirit begins to tread the path of eternal life.

2. The paths leading to eternity are 2. The path leading to eternal life is 1. Read my last mention again. My emphasis regarding the two paths is on eternity and not on eternal life. Eternity consists of eternal life and eternal damnation.

3. On the parable of the tare, you err greatly. To say that both the wheat and the tares were growing together in the kingdom of God is a great disservice to God's Kingdom. For the sake of people like you who might want to wrest the word of God to favour their own private interpretations, Jesus Christ expressly explained the parable to His disciples saying "The field is this earth. The angels are the reapers. And the harvest is the end of this world." While Jesus Christ clearly explained that the field where both the wheat and the tares grow together is this earth, you're here claiming again and again that the wheat and the tares were growing in the kingdom of God. Is the earth the kingdom of God? Or are you saying everybody including Satan is in the kingdom of God?

4. I have noticed in your previous mentions that you tend to separate Paul's writings from the Word of God. You say 'Paul said' but 'God said'. That's a great error. God has never spoken directly in Scripture, except in the voice that came to Jesus as He was being baptized, and the old testament incident of Horeb where God spoke directly to the people. God's word has always been spoken through men.

Regarding Paul's writings, Peter wrote in
◄ 2 Peter 3:16 ►

"As also in all his (Paul's) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

Take note of the bolded. Paul's writings are part of the scriptures. They constitute the infallible word of God. Peter clarified it thus:

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:20-21.

Again, the Bible says:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:16.

Paul's writings are established as the inspired word of God.

4. Your assertion about the capital 'S' in reference to the Spirit of God is based on an acute ignorance of Biblical interpretation. I can do a whole exegesis on these things for you to see clearly that the Bible writes spirits and Spirit. The capital S starting the word connotes the Holy Spirit. This is globally recognized by Bible scholars in all ages. Each time the Bible uses the small 's' in the word, it refers to any other spirits. To avoid confusion, the Bible clearly differentiates between the Spirit of God and other spirits. Even in that same John 3. '...born of water and of Spirit'. Then, 'whatsoever is born of spirit (any spirit) is spirit. Whatsoever is born of flesh is flesh.' Meaning the offspring must take the form of its progenitor. This capitalization style appears also in Son of man (Jesus Christ) and son of man (you and I). A little perusal of the scriptures would confirm this to you. Your argument on this is absolutely uncalled for.

5. Too much errors in your interpretations. No one is saved or comes to confess Jesus as His Lord and personal Savior genuinely without the Holy Spirit.

The Mystery of Salvation

When a soul receives illumination, he repents and asks for forgiveness. The Lord the takes him up and washes him clean in His blood. He becomes a new creature. At that point of his cleansing, his heart becomes habitable for the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God comes to dwell in him immediately. He awakens his conscience. The man becomes conscious of sin. He's not yet perfect. He is expected to keep walking towards perfection. He's still a baby in Christ. He continues to cleanse himself as he studies the word of God and grows. The Holy Spirit begins to get more and more room to work and to move in his life, and when he attains maturity, he becomes a useful instrument to bless others and bring them into salvation.

Regarding your take on pastors and men of God generally, I'll do justice to this in my next mention.

When Jesus Christ called His disciples, they too all had what you call a salvation experience. Yes, they abandoned it all to follow Him, Jesus Christ, enduring Homelessnesss and lose of source of livelihood, reputation, Self-control, worth etc. all to follow Jesus Christ. Just over 3 years later, Judas falls and Peter almost went the same way. This before the Spirit of God showed up on the scene. And we were not even talking of the many others who started on the journey with them but eventually fell along the way when they could no longer stomach the teachings of Jesus Christ- John 6.

The Salvation experience is not of relevance when it comes to telling those who belong to Jesus Christ from those who do not and this is evidenced in the fact tha even Jesus Christ Himself made it clear that those who love Him aren't those who have a fantastical Salvation experience to regale you with but instead those who submit to and obey His commandments/rules - those are the ones who truly belong to Him.

Over and over, I keep repeating what Jesus Christ Himself said of those who belong to Him, in hopes that it will sink into you, at some point, what you are arguing against is not my opinion, but God's very Word where it concerns who belongs to Him and wo doesn't. My hope is that you abandon the doctrines and traditions of men which you seem to have covered yourself in so you can finally open yourself to God's Truth as it was given us even 2000 years ago.

Kobojunkie:
When Jesus Christ called His disciples, they too all had what you call a salvation experience. Yes, they abandoned it all to follow Him, Jesus Christ, enduring Homelessnesss and lose of source of livelihood, reputation, Self-control, worth etc. all to follow Jesus Christ. Just over 3 years later, Judas falls and Peter almost went the same way. This before the Spirit of God showed up on the scene. And we were not even talking of the many others who started on the journey with them but eventually fell along the way when they could no longer stomach the teachings of Jesus Christ- John 6.

The Salvation experience is not of relevance when it comes to telling those who belong to Jesus Christ from those who do not and this is evidenced in the fact tha even Jesus Christ Himself made it clear that those who love Him aren't those who have a fantastical Salvation experience to regale you with but instead those who submit to and obey His commandments/rules - those are the ones who truly belong to Him.

Over and over, I keep repeating what Jesus Christ Himself said of those who belong to Him, in hopes that it will sink into you, at some point, what you are arguing against is not my opinion, but God's very Word where it concerns who belongs to Him and wo doesn't. My hope is that you abandon the doctrines and traditions of men which you seem to have covered yourself in so you can finally open yourself to God's Truth as it was given us even 2000 years ago.

It is your type who create heresies from unbalanced interpretation of scriptures, make yourselves into teachers, and lead astray many gullible souls. After showing you your errors from the scriptures, disbanding your demonic thinking about the parable of the tares, your thoughts about the Spirit of God, the Kingdom of God and the testimony of salvation, you're still forming teacher of strange revelations.

Judas Iscariot was prophesied to be a son of perdition. He was once a saved soul, but he fell. In Acts 1, Peter recounted that 'He was one of us' but he fell from his position.

After you're saved, the devil keeps hunting your soul. That's why Hebrews 10:39, says:

"But we are not of those drawing back to destruction, but of faith to the preserving of the soul."

Peter described the backsliding of a believer in these words:

"But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire" 2 Peter 2:22.

As a result, Paul warned:

"Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." 1Cor. 10:12.

Of such who backslide without repentance Hebrews 10:29 says:

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

Therefore, the Lord Jesus commanded us to hold fast till He comes. Revelation 2:25.

Just like a chick saved from a hawk under the brooding wings of its mother, can wander away from under her mother's safe protection into the waiting arms of a furious hawk, a saved soul can wander away into perdition.

This is why there are Churches and preachers whom God has commissioned to nurture and provide support for everyone as we journey into the kingdom.

Hence, we are advised:

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." Hebrews 10:25.

By reading your anti unscriptural revelations so far, I fear you are one of those guilty of the bolded. Repent, my brother, before it is too late. Get a mentor and a sound Assembly that'll bring nourishment to your soul.


The fact that believers have a tendency to fall does not imply that we can now discard the testimony of a person's salvation as a means of knowing whether he had ever met Jesus.

As I said earlier. The testimony of a person's salvation is what matters to us as human beings except God reveals other things about the person. What concerns us is 'Is he saved? Has he given his heart to Christ?' What the fellow does with his salvation is between him and his maker. We cannot dismiss the testimony of salvation, and then admit men of the occult unto our pulpits.

Eviana:



You made a mistake though at the above bolded red: It's "ma'am".....not "sir". I am very much a female born of a female. Some people on N.L. desperately wish I was a male, but I am incapable of making that wish come true....nor do I want to..with all due respect.
You are welcome.
May you continue to rightly divide the word of God....which is truth.

Amen.

My apology.

NobleRace:


So, you became a Christian without a salvation experience? You were never baptised in water? You attend no church? You call yourself a Christian? You call all those pathways to a Christian Life a deception and occultism? You're fake! Or perhaps, you're deluded.

To ask how someone got saved, got baptised, got empowered from above or ask about his Christian family (the church he formerly attended) is deception to you. Those questions mean a log is in my eye? TB Joshua's remote control stunt is equated with Peter's shadow by you? What sort of Christianity do you practice? You even call biblical foundations 'man-made'. Rather than pray the prayer I advised you to pray or at least clarify the things you know about TB Joshua, you resorted to name calling. What have I done to the world that requires you asking me such questions? If you want to know me and hear my own testimony, I share it every now and then wherever I preach the gospel. I say TB Joshua never shared his. And, that's if he had any. Every believer rejoices at answering those questions above because they're exhilarating moments in the Christian's journey. I doubt if I'm talking with a Christian. No child of God would dare call him an an occult who asks such questions as I asked. The most fundamental things of the Christian faith. The general experience of every believer in Christ Jesus.

The New testament saints have a new birth experience. An empowerment experience. A spiritual nurturing experience. Even Paul the Apostle could relate. Was TB Joshua a Christian? I ask again. Where is his new birth experience? Tell me what he said about his endowment with power. Tell me what he told you about his Christian family. I desire to know! If you can't and still go on to defend falsehood, you're an enemy of the Kingdom, and not a true soldier of Christ.

You are beaten about d bush,you have not answered the questions i earnestly asked you.

bizzibodi:

You are beaten about d bush,you have not answered the questions i earnestly asked you.

Can you see the fruits you're already bearing? You call all scriptural proofs 'beating about the bush'. Then lied you asked me questions when I was the first to ask you without you having an answer. You threw my questions about TB Joshua back at me because you couldn't answer them. Yet you're following him. A blind follower you are. I already answered you that I have answered those questions I asked about TB Joshua to those who matter. TB Joshua didn't answer those questions to anyone in his lifetime. He failed those people.

I doubt your salvation. You have respect for men like TB Joshua but none for the Word of God.

NobleRace:


Can you see the fruits you're already bearing? You call all scriptural proofs 'beating about the bush'. Then lied you asked me questions when I was the first to ask you without you having an answer. You threw my questions about TB Joshua back at me because you couldn't answer them. Yet you're following him. A blind follower you are. I already answered you that I have answered those questions I asked about TB Joshua to those who matter. TB Joshua didn't answer those questions to anyone in his lifetime. He failed those people.

I doubt your salvation. You have respect for men like TB Joshua but none for the Word of God.

"Scriptural proofs"without any biblical backing?
All you do is self-glorification & self righteousness.
Removed log from your eyes first.
If you can't answer d questions then you are denying yourself & Christ.

Eviana:



You made a mistake though at the above bolded red: It's "ma'am".....not "sir". I am very much a female born of a female. Some people on N.L. desperately wish I was a male, but I am incapable of making that wish come true....nor do I want to..with all due respect.
You are welcome.
May you continue to rightly divide the word of God....which is truth.

Lol.

NobleRace:


I can see that you don't even understand my points. Your argument is clearly offpoint.

1.; I'm not claiming any righteousness. I'm asking you a few questions:

✓ How did TB Joshua get saved? If he never talked about it, chances are that he wasn't. You generalise testimony. There's a testimony of salvation unique to every Christian. Before even asking for that of TB Joshua, do you have yours? You must not depart this world without one.

2. Does the Holy Spirit work in his church? I mean working without anybody's intervention. The Lord just doing His things in His church. You seem never to grasp this point.

3. Where was he baptised in water?

4. How did he receive the Holy Spirit baptism?

5. What church was he attending before starting synagogue?

If we have raised questions bothering on physical things and yet you fail to understand; how will you understand spiritual things?

Whenever he did charity works, he televises it for the world to see. Do you know why? It's against the Christian injunction on giving. Do you know why he sells anointing oil? It's never done. Do you see how he used his hand to remote-control people before falling them to the ground? The Holy Spirit never does that. The only reason why people fall under the anointing of the Holy Spirit is that, their bodies can not contain the weight of power that's coming upon them. Otherwise, the Holy Spirit wants to touch everyone while he remains standing and conscious. TB Joshua deliberately uses his hands to whirl people around remotely. Then, sweeps the hand across the floor, resulting in the person's fall. That's not the Holy Spirit.

This is my advice for you. If you consider TB Joshua to be such a man of God that served the true master- The Lord Jesus. Then, start praying that God should make your life like that of TB Joshua. Your end like his end. And whatsoever be the fate of him in the afterlife should be your fate. Pray this prayer in your mention to me. Otherwise, I'll consider you an hypocrite.

Foolishness of the wise indeed. I see that Bible School has reduced the functioning of the Holy spirit to mere theory and wishful thinking.

Some people are waiting for salvation story. while God has taken his humble servant home. Very funny.

coscj:


Foolishness of the wise indeed. I see that Bible School has reduced the functioning of the Holy spirit to mere theory and wishful thinking.

Some people are waiting for salvation story. while God has taken his humble servant home. Very funny.

Is this your wisdom? Someone who was a known spiritualist from a Muslim background suddenly starts a church in the 90s without any proof of his encounter with Christ becomes your prophet? Jesus Christ rightly said 'Even the elect shall be deceived.' Is this your wisdom?

bizzibodi:

"Scriptural proofs"without any biblical backing?
All you do is self-glorification & self righteousness.
Removed log from your eyes first.
If you can't answer d questions then you are denying yourself & Christ.

You're an hypocrite.

Answer what questions? What do I owe you? Are you my church member? Have I invited you to join my congregation? Or what? Questions are asked with valid reasons, and answers are justifiably provided. Nobody answers a foolish question that has no logical basis.

I asked you hypocrite, what did TB Joshua tell you about his salvation experience? What church was he attending before he started synagogue? How did he receive his call from God? At least, this would justify your followership of him, otherwise, you're a blind follower. You only saw miracles and televised acts of charity and concluded him to be a man of God. Does the devil not perform miracles? Satan also gives!

Jesus said 'When you give your alms, do so in secret." TB Joshua would televise it against the Lord's Instructions. That's for God to judge anyway.

But as a human being, I wouldn't know who you are until I can ascertain that you're saved, and you've met the Lord Jesus. He preached over 20yrs and never shared how he went from darkness to light, but only shared stories about his family which have no kingdom bearings. Except you can answer my questions, you're are a disservice to the kingdom of God and of course, you do your soul a lot of damage.

NobleRace:


Is this your wisdom? Someone who was a known spiritualist from a Muslim background suddenly starts a church in the 90s without any proof of his encounter with Christ becomes your prophet? Jesus Christ rightly said 'Even the elect shall be deceived.' Is this your wisdom?

God does not need your validation to use anyone. Even if he(tb Joshua) fullfills all this questions or sceptiscm you have, satan will still plant another doubt in your mind. And you go about spreading it, the more you spread it the more God increases his anointing and relevance. No wonder the bible talks about a rejected corner stone becoming the Chief cornerstone.
Hear this: The Holy spirit has a mind of it's own, if you expect HIS workings to conform to your 'expectations' (of what qualifies a person to be man of God)then you are wasting your time. It can't happen. The spirit acts and moves according to God's will not our symbolic beliefs.

My advise to you is go and work on your relationship with God.

coscj:


God does not need your validation to use anyone. Even if he(tb Joshua) fullfills all this questions or sceptiscm you have, satan will still plant another doubt in your mind. And you go about spreading it, the more you spread it the more God increases his anointing and relevance. No wonder the bible talks about a rejected corner stone becoming the Chief cornerstone.
Hear this: The Holy spirit has a mind of it's own, if you expect HIS workings to conform to your 'expectations' (of what qualifies a person to be man of God)then you are wasting your time. It can't happen. The spirit acts and moves according to God's will not our symbolic beliefs.

My advise to you is go and work on your relationship with God.

So, you mean the Holy Spirit can use an unsaved man from the occult as His minister? The Holy Spirit does not only have a mind of His own, He's the Master, and Leader of every genuine Church. Yes, He can act in ways you don't expect but for bringing a servant into His Vineyard, He already stated that 'God heareth not sinners.'

Why does the Bible say 'Try all spirits'? You mean if Guru Mahraji starts a church today, you'll attend without minding whether he has given his life to Christ genuinely or not? He immediately becomes 'your chief cornerstone' because the Holy Spirit has a mind of His own.

Even Paul received a rejection treatment from the Apostles when he tried to join them in Jerusalem. It took Barnabas to tell them that he has met the Lord, and then after hearing his personal testimony of salvation, Paul recounted in Ephesians 1, that they gave him the 'free hand of fellowship.' God has never left His church without a rule to follow in accepting men and woman as bonafide co-labourers in the vineyard.

I hope to actually justify TB Joshua. Since you're his follower, you owe the world a responsibility to clarify the misunderstanding about him if any, the same way Barnabas did for Saul of Tarsus.