Nauttyprof:

When Christ started with the vine and the Disciples being the branches, what do you think He was pointing at?

For you to understand the chapter, I will try explain better to you. Christ was about leaving and was recounting every experience He had with the Disciples explaining how he chose them and how they remained in Him throughout, with Christ feeding them with the word of God (helping them grow in this). Now, it is time for Christ to leave, he is then letting them know of the need to continue from where he stopped (witnessing) and how He won't leave them without the Holyspirit in witnessing. He prepared their minds on being ready to face oppositions just the way he faced his.

I believe with the above, I have been able to make you see and understand better what the message was about in being the vine, the disciples being the branches and the need for them to bear fruits.

We read in full to understand the Author's intended meaning alone and not pick verses in isolation to pass a different view.

I hope with this explanation, I have clarified the place of witnessing.

After reading John 15 from verse 1, check the last verse to understand why Jesus talked about bearing fruits.

kingxsamz:

All these one na lame excuses nobody is ready to read. Christians will say "where two or three are gathered, the lord is there" but na still their pastors dey vex say people no plenty for church, even though there are at least 3 churches in every street. There are more Christians in this country and they're still looking for more. They say they want to win souls, but the souls they want to win have already been won by another church.
So basically, what they're doing is trying to win members from other churches. And more members guarantees massive weekly income.
Na who do advert pass they usually sell, that's why their daddy GO is angry and sacking pastors anyhow because the pastors no get sweet mouth to cajole people to come and buy the market they're selling.
Anybody that says this isn't about tithe and offering is just lying to himself, so ya'll keep crying.

CodeTemplar:

The aim of churches expansion isnt for two or three to be gathered. All men are suppose to know God.

jesusjnr2020:
It's a shame but not a surprise that a senior pastor of winner's chapel doesn't know what it mean to bear fruits in the Kingdom sense of the phrase, how much more those who they lead?

Even John the baptist of the Law and the prophets knew what it meant to bear fruits. He said to the Pharisees:

Luke 3:8-9 (KJV)



Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

So the fruits in question are the good fruits (proof) of true repentance, in other words, evidence to show that one has truly repented, hence it's if one doesn't have such evidence or the good fruits (proof) of true repentance that the axe would be laid to the root of that tree to bring it down and it would be cast into the fire, which is an illustration of eternal damnation.

But what are these good fruits one needs to bear so as not to suffer such a fate?

Luke 3:10-14 (KJV)

And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.
And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

So according to John the Baptist, it has to do with the works of righteousness and obedience of God's Word.

This aligned with Christ's parable of the sower where the seed which is the Word of God is sown into people's heart, and it's when they keep the Word that they are said to have borne fruits.

Luke 8:11 (KJV)

Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Luke 8:15 (KJV)

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

So as you can see, bearing fruits had nothing to do with growth of church membership but the spiritual growth of an individual, which is evidenced by the works of righteousness and obedience of God's Word.

Hence one can still be having strong church membership growth and yet not be bearing fruits according to what it actually means to bear fruits, because the person is a worker of iniquity and not keeping God's Word.

That's how the axe was yet laid to the roots of the trees of those many anointed ministers and Christians who worked of iniquity Jesus spoke about, despite that their church membership would have grown tremendously because of the signs and wonders that followed them, because to bear fruits means keep the Word of God and that they didn't do.

God bless.

ErnieUC:

I cannot believe you provided a lot of bible references and still lost the point.

This does not add up to what is being discussed.
Are u saying low membership means the few are bearing fruit It doesn't work that way.

There should be increase of membership and spiritual growth altogether.

No one can see the mind of people to know they are spiritually growing but we can see increments in size of congregation and assume there is growth, it is now left for the pastor who has dedicated himself to this physical growth to teach this large crowd how to grow spiritually.

Please be very clear about this

TimeTraveller:
Churches need to dey explain themselves to the public sometimes o!
I know say scam full Nigerian churches, but that wan no mean say everybody must get opinion.
When GTB or Dangote sack people dem dey explain to una?
Na so una dey also chook mouth for church finance. Nobody ask you to pay offering or tithe, keep ya miserable money.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ condemns the teaching of the doctrines and traditions of men as lies, an abomination to God in Matthew 15 vs 1 -14, that is in a nutshell, my belief.

Now do tell me of this "gardening of the true children of His"? (you should know there is a typo up here 'gathering' and not 'gardening').

Your churches never were of Jesus Christ to begin with. The Church that belongs to Jesus Christ is the one built by Jesus Christ. All others are just dens of thieves, false prophets and teachers.

Kobojunkie:
Again...Bearing what fruit? Your idea of fruits differ from that spoken of by Jesus Christ in that context.

I get from your reading of chapter 15 what your understanding is, what I dont get is how you feel you have answered the question I have asked several times now about the fruit Jesus Christ spoke of.

Here is the question again plainly... Jesus Christ is he vine and each of us a branch on the vine. What fruit are each branch expected to bear as individual followers of Jesus Christ, when as explained in John 15?

SEGLIZ:

how do you know, locate and find that church established by Christ?
besides are you a Christian?

Nauttyprof:

The end result of the following:

John 15:27 But you also will testify and be My witnesses, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

This is what Christ meant when He said go and bear fruits and that it should last.

HigherEd:
First, I would commend the living faith church for the great work in investing churches across rural communities and employing paid 16,000 Pastors to lead those churches.

That said, this controversy allowed me to understand that a vast majority of us Nigerians behave like locust (apologies to anyone offended).

Eat, eat, eat is all they know. Contribution and multiplication is not their concern. Let's just exploit what is available, divide it, eat it and wait for the next supply.

This is why as a people we actually produce so little but consume so very much.
We are a nation of exploiters...

I have learnt personal lessons from this writeup and I would be sure to make personal amends in my own life. Just about condemning those pastors that are running from duty, and the holy spirit reminded me of something that was placed in my hand which failed but I have not given account neither have I replaced it to the person. The person never asked probably cause of our close relationship, and he's rich but that doesn't absolves me of my responsibility to integrity.

1) Never accept to do anything you have no passion for simply because of economic benefits whether fringe or large.

2) Whatever has been committed to your hands by those who invested in you must be nurtured to grow with all your effort.

3) If what has been committed to your hand fails for any reason, have the honor to return it at least the way you met it. Be truthful to your investor. Don't wait till you are fired or cursed out.
As a people we must learn to RESIGN when we see glaringly that we are unqualified or unable to carry certain responsibilities.

Kobojunkie:
I didn't meet God in any church... I met Him outside of your churches and no man taught me of God , God taught me about Himself as He said in Jeremiah 31 vs 34 that He would. So please do not confuse the Word and work of God with that which goes on in your churches... it confuses a lot of you.

Jesus Christ never asked His followers to win souls for Him..He instead commanded them to go preach the Gospel of His Kingdom, as He taught it to them, to the world. I know your Mogs feed you the idea that it is the same as your winning souls campaigns but it is completely different.

Kobojunkie:
You don't locate the Church that belongs to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ Himself, and the Father, live inside of those who belong to Him - John 14 vs 20 -25. They are branches of the vine that is Jesus Christ - John 15 vs 1-11.

I am a follower of Jesus Christ, a branch on the Vine that is Jesus Christ.

HigherEd:


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2484752211668635&id=444807728996437

jesusjnr2020:
It's a shame but not a surprise that a senior pastor of winner's chapel doesn't know what it mean to bear fruits in the Kingdom sense of the phrase, how much more those who they lead?

Even John the baptist of the Law and the prophets knew what it meant to bear fruits. He said to the Pharisees:

Luke 3:8-9 (KJV)

Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

So the fruits in question are the good fruits (proof) of true repentance, in other words, evidence to show that one has truly repented, hence it's if one doesn't have such evidence or the good fruits (proof) of true repentance that the axe would be laid to the root of that tree to bring it down and it would be cast into the fire, which is an illustration of eternal damnation.

But what are these good fruits one needs to bear so as not to suffer such a fate?

Luke 3:10-14 (KJV)

And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.
And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

So according to John the Baptist, it has to do with the works of righteousness and obedience of God's Word.

This aligned with Christ's parable of the sower where the seed which is the Word of God is sown into people's heart, and it's when they keep the Word that they are said to have borne fruits.

Luke 8:11 (KJV)

Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Luke 8:15 (KJV)

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

So as you can see, bearing fruits had nothing to do with growth of church membership but the spiritual growth of an individual, which is evidenced by the works of righteousness and obedience of God's Word.

Hence one can still be having strong church membership growth and yet not be bearing fruits according to what it actually means to bear fruits, because the person is a worker of iniquity and not keeping God's Word.

That's how the axe was yet laid to the roots of the trees of those many anointed ministers and Christians who worked of iniquity Jesus spoke about, despite that their church membership would have grown tremendously because of the signs and wonders that followed them, because to bear fruits means keep the Word of God and that they didn't do.

God bless.

SEGLIZ:

you right and on point. no argument from me. attend the Church (which simply means gathering of believers), is fulfil the instructions of God that urge us not to forsake the gathering of the believers.

Kobojunkie:
Was there a "divine mandate" too when these now fired pastors were first hired?

HigherEd:


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2484752211668635&id=444807728996437

TemmyT002:


No one cares about your opinion. Bang your head against a wall. You go dey alright las las

kingxsamz:

All these one na lame excuses nobody is ready to read. Christians will say "where two or three are gathered, the lord is there" but na still their pastors dey vex say people no plenty for church, even though there are at least 3 churches in every street. There are more Christians in this country and they're still looking for more. They say they want to win souls, but the souls they want to win have already been won by another church.
So basically, what they're doing is trying to win members from other churches. And more members guarantees massive weekly income.
Na who do advert pass they usually sell, that's why their daddy GO is angry and sacking pastors anyhow because the pastors no get sweet mouth to cajole people to come and buy the market they're selling.
Anybody that says this isn't about tithe and offering is just lying to himself, so ya'll keep crying.

Tifunloran:




You are wrong on this.
From what I knew,Since the Corona Era started Jehovah Witnesses don't meet in their kingdom hall as usual. ( REASONS BEST INOW TO THEM)
Now tell me, if donating online is not advice, how did you want them to finance their printing of publications etc.

paxonel:
If that is the basis for the sack then it is justified. You can't abandon your primary duty to pursue something else and at the same time expect growth.

Kobojunkie:
But God never asked anyone to win souls for Him. The soul He is more interested in is your own and what He commands of you is obedience of His commandments in order that you may have works of righteousness , the fruit of obedience He demands from all those who belong to Him.

kingxsamz:


Wow, so not "all men will hear the gospel"?
What happened to "the violent taketh it by force"? Why are they closing the churches, why didn't they use prayers to win them over? Like how Moses was able to free the people of Israelites?
Besides, I mentioned Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Will the Chidren in those countries now go to hell because their government didn't want the gospel preached to them? Haba!

Rebuke:
Food is ready again for the church and pastor haters to come and eat.

They will never be satisfied no matter the explanation given simply because they hate to hear anything good about the church.

No one should even bother trying to explain anything again to these lost and irredeemable souls. They are always looking for opportunities to bash the church and men of God.

Unfortunately for them, they can't stop the church from rising, never!

Even this incident will announce the church of God to the world and draw many more souls to Christ, Praise be God.

One thing I know for sure, those who are in the habit of always bashing the church of God and men of God are heaping a coal of fire on their head.....repentance, I mean genuine repentance will be their only way out.

Jesus is Lord forever, yhur opinion doesn't matter, deal with it, Amen

Kobojunkie:
Wait a minute.... these men are paid 40k and how much do u make per month?

kingxsamz:


All men?
That's laughable because I can walk 10 minutes in Lagos and count 30 churches.
So who are the people your pastor is buiding 10 thousand churches for? The Christian doctrine says "everyone must spread the gospel", no matter the circumstances. So why aren't you guys going to Afghanistan, Pakistan Iraq, South Korea and Iran in numbers, trying to "win souls"? Abi those ones don't deserve to 'know God'?
Anyways, it still doesn't change the fact that church is a business.

Sammy07:



You win souls to GOD, not to YOUR LOCAL CHURCH. Evangelism is not an exercise to bring people to your local church, it is the act of reaching out to people with the gospel of Christ so that they can be saved. They don't need to attend your local church to grow, there are other churches where they can do that..

Yinkusgold:

go ye into the world and preach the gospel but don't force them. if they don't accept you, dust off your foot wears this will be an evidence against them. that is a form of soul winning for God, though it's not by force and is not a must they must attend ur church.
by the way are u a muslim?