Tareq1105:



Ignorance to the things of the spirit.

The last time you went to church service and you dropped #50 in the offering box, did anyone call you back or chastise you?

Living Faith Church uses envelope for offering and the purpose is to prevent whatever you have brought as offering from being seen by anyone around you but God.

Too much ignorance.

Awwn, how cute.

Sanchez01:
I know how pentecostal churches function quite well. If you have issues with the church, IT WILL BE SPELT IN YOUR LETTER OF DISMISSAL but nowhere in that letter did the church state that the pastors left their primary places of assignments. Plus, full time pastors rely solely on the monthly earning from the church. IF THE PASTORS WERE ASSIGNED THEN IT MEANS THEY WERE ON THE CHURCH'S PAYROLL.

The letter below took them up on GROWTH INDEX and not negligence. I have seen these things up close TOO MANY TIMES. Yes, pastors have KPIs, as surprising as it is and it is what is used in determining their performance. Interestingly, RETURNS is the summary of their KPIs. A sign your church is doing well is the number of MONTHLY RETURNS and sign that it is not is the LOW RETURNS. I have seen pastors queried, redeployed and even demoted FOR NOT GROWING THEIR CHURCH.

All these explanations are just excuses on behalf of the modus operandi of Pentecostalism in Nigeria. The model is American and it is a disgusting one.

Money isn't the KPI but your mindset based on the trends in Nigeria, which made you see money as this.

Now, to correct your wrong notion. If you are the newly recruited sales manager of a company and you didn't bring in new customers. Rather, what the company had was just their existing customers transacting with them even when the money constantly comes in. Be the judge, will the company judge you by money or by the number of customers you have brought?

Now let's look at this spiritual body, souls are not won for Christ but the Pastor just enjoys his steady salary and accommodation. Should those in charge not do anything about this even after years of service in this church?

I have learnt first hand on church growth and the concerns of leaders. They are always concerned about the number of souls won with the Pastor of the newly established church also providing monthly report on evangelism and church programmes. They even go to the extent of sending support team to assist in the area of evangelism (I speak based on my denomination).

It is the recent and usual mindset in Nigeria that has made people to say all sorts to the church.

Please, also understand that the heart of a man can only be known by God. The said pastor did not in anyway say what he also have done wrong rather he gave a one sided report of how LFC is evil in sacking him.

Kobojunkie:
I am glad you agree that context is key to reading the Bible. So in the context that is John 15 vs 1 - 11, what is the fruit that Jesus Christ says we are to bear as those who abide in Jesus Christ ?

What is the essence of the mentioned fruits to our existence as followers of Jesus Christ?

Did you read verse 16? This was why I mentioned the need to read the whole chapter. Also, did you see what ended chapter 15?

Context is always important.

Ngwababe

Well said

Nauttyprof:

Did you read verse 16? This was why I mentioned the need to read the whole chapter. Also, did you see what ended chapter 15?

Context is always important.

What is the fruit in that context?

“You learn more from failure than from success.
Don’t let it stop you. Failure builds character.” —
Unknown

remsonik:
This is a nice thing. I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail. If you know you can't pastor a church don't take the job cos it's a call and you have to be really dedicated to it. It's not something you can do as side hustle or for play.

I know one idiot in calabar that is into this balancing act. He works for this small microfinance firms and he equally took up this calling

Everyday and time he is shuttling between calabar and his location in Akampa area... His turn shall come someday

HigherEd:


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2484752211668635&id=444807728996437

When I read the reactions of Nigerians to the disengagement, I had a few conclusions.

1. First, it is either Nigerians are extremely ignorant or the Church hasnt done very well by telling Nigerians that concepts like, "strive towards perfection", "peformance", "results", "outputs" doesnt have its foundation in Capitalism, but in Scriptures. John 15: 8; Matthew 25:14–30; Daniel 6: 3, etc. Like, even Christ cursed to withering at its roots, a fig tree that didnt bear fruits!

2. Secondly, Nigerians once again proved their lack of depth and cowardly disposition towards what they consider "easy targets". Anyone who wants to critique should, I would think, do more research about what you are critiquing. And the cowardly targetting of the church is now visibly quite funny. No serious person takes them serious.

3. Thirdly, many Nigerians are hypocrites. How can you argue for a performance-driven Nigeria and criticise a performance-driven Church in Nigeria? Should the Church be treated by another (lower) standard or do you really want performance at all? No wonder Nigeria is what she is today

4. Finally, "woke" Nigerians are comedians. I would suggest they find ways to take over IG comedy skits. They will add more value that way.

kingxsamz:

All these one na lame excuses nobody is ready to read. Christians will say "where two or three are gathered, the lord is there" but na still their pastors dey vex say people no plenty for church, even though there are at least 3 churches in every street. There are more Christians in this country and they're still looking for more. They say they want to win souls, but the souls they want to win have already been won by another church.
So basically, what they're doing is trying to win members from other churches. And more members guarantees massive weekly income.
Na who do advert pass they usually sell, that's why their daddy GO is angry and sacking pastors anyhow because the pastors no get sweet mouth to cajole people to come and buy the market they're selling.
Anybody that says this isn't about tithe and offering is just lying to himself, so ya'll keep crying.

100%
How can I like this twice

Kobojunkie:
What is the fruit in that context?

The text talks about witnessing. The place of abiding in Christ and then, going out to witness.

Context is key.

The truth is that these sacked pastors failed to deliver on their mandates.
Whether poor cash returns or not winning enough souls,caused their sack, the fact remains that before their ordination and posting they had a clear instructions on what is expected of them,to which they agreed. A church like every organization has defined aims and objectives. For any pastor to remain relevant to the organization,he must allign himself with these objectives and ensure that at worst the minimum result expected of him is achieved regularly. No organization keeps unproductive workers and still thrives.

Themandator:


I know one idiot in calabar that is into this balancing act. He works for this small microfinance firms and he equally took up this calling

Everyday and time he is shuttling between calabar and his location in Akampa area... His turn shall come someday

Why hate the guy for this? People elsewhere also have for themselves more than one "hustle" to make ends meet, so why hate the guy for doing the same?

Nauttyprof:

The text talks about witnessing. The place of abiding in Christ and then, going out to witness.

Context is key.

So, where in John 15 do you get to this text about "witnessing" from?

Kobojunkie:
So, where in John 15 do you get to this text about "witnessing" from?

I have asked you questions which you didn't reply to. I answered your question and also told you to read a particular verse. I also told you not to dwell on certain verses but read the chapter to the end to understand the Author's intended meaning and not your inferred meaning.

So, please read the Bible chapter than ask me questions that I have answered. When you get to the end of the chapter (final part of the chapter), ask yourself what is the essence of testifying?

kingxsamz:


Wow, so not "all men will hear the gospel"?
What happened to "the violent taketh it by force"? Why are they closing the churches, why didn't they use prayers to win them over? Like how Moses was able to free the people of Israelites?
Besides, I mentioned Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Will the Chidren in those countries now go to hell because their government didn't want the gospel preached to them? Haba!

some Christians are in the mentioned could tries, preaching anyhow whether secret or public.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7QFNQGKbe4

Just like the typical Abuja politicians who have absolutely nothing to offer but come to Abuja with feeding bottle to receive their share of the national milk

HigherEd:
First, I would commend the living faith church for the great work in investing churches across rural communities and employing paid 16,000 Pastors to lead those churches.

That said, this controversy allowed me to understand that a vast majority of us Nigerians behave like locust (apologies to anyone offended).

Eat, eat, eat is all they know. Contribution and multiplication is not their concern. Let's just exploit what is available, divide it, eat it and wait for the next supply.

This is why as a people we actually produce so little but consume so very much.
We are a nation of exploiters...

I have learnt personal lessons from this writeup and I would be sure to make personal amends in my own life. Just about condemning those pastors that are running from duty, and the holy spirit reminded me of something that was placed in my hand which failed but I have not given account neither have I replaced it to the person. The person never asked probably cause of our close relationship, and he's rich but that doesn't absolves me of my responsibility to integrity.

1) Never accept to do anything you have no passion for simply because of economic benefits whether fringe or large.

2) Whatever has been committed to your hands by those who invested in you must be nurtured to grow with all your effort.

3) If what has been committed to your hand fails for any reason, have the honor to return it at least the way you met it. Be truthful to your investor. Don't wait till you are fired or cursed out.
As a people we must learn to RESIGN when we see glaringly that we are unqualified or unable to carry certain responsibilities.

kingxsamz:


Wow, so not "all men will hear the gospel"?
What happened to "the violent taketh it by force"? Why are they closing the churches, why didn't they use prayers to win them over? Like how Moses was able to free the people of Israelites?
Besides, I mentioned Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Will the Chidren in those countries now go to hell because their government didn't want the gospel preached to them? Haba!

some Christians are in the mentioned countries, preaching anyhow, whether secret or public.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7QFNQGKbe4

madridsta007:

When I read the reactions of Nigerians to the disengagement, I had a few conclusions.

1. First, it is either Nigerians are extremely ignorant or the Church hasnt done very well by telling Nigerians that concepts like, "strive towards perfection", "peformance", "results", "outputs" doesnt have its foundation in Capitalism, but in Scriptures. John 15: 8; Matthew 25:14–30; Daniel 6: 3, etc. Like, even Christ cursed to withering at its roots, a fig tree that didnt bear fruits!

So, striving towards SINLESSNESS aka Perfection or Holiness, as commanded by Jesus Christ in the New Covenant amounts to pretty much the same thing as that which rules in even the world today?

So, where Jesus Christ teaches His followers , in Mattthew 25 vs 14 - 30 , the parable of the 10 talents, that in His Kingdom,they ought to us the little they have in order to be given more, .e.g. understanding, applies to this context how?

And what Jesus Christ said in John 15 vs 1 - 16, of the need for His own to abide in Him in other that He may abide in them so they can produce fruits through the doing of good(righteous) works just as He did and more, applies here how?

Kobojunkie:
Why hate the guy for this? People elsewhere also have for themselves more than one "hustle" to make ends meet, so why hate the guy for doing the same?

Resident Pastors are paid to sit down and invest their time in God's business.

They are paid
Their children are covered medically and academically



If you can't abide by this rule go and face that side hustle.

Many things suffer when they try to combine this business.. It is a serious spiritual work... You can get killed for carelessness

Calabar will soon evaluate them

Nauttyprof:

I have asked you questions which you didn't reply to. I answered your question and also told you to read a particular verse. I also told you not to dwell on certain verses but read the chapter to the end to understand the Author's intended meaning and not your inferred meaning.

So, please read the Bible chapter than ask me questions that I have answered. When you get to the end of the chapter (final part of the chapter), ask yourself what is the essence of testifying?

You told me that context is key so I don't dwell on certain verses but instead the message provided in context.

I dont believe in interpreting scripture since it is written in human language to be comprehended as one would any other text written in human language by human authors.

Nauttyprof:
I have asked you questions which you didn't reply to. I answered your question and also told you to read a particular verse. I also told you not to dwell on certain verses but read the chapter to the end to understand the Author's intended meaning and not your inferred meaning.

So, please read the Bible chapter than ask me questions that I have answered. When you get to the end of the chapter (final part of the chapter), ask yourself what is the essence of testifying?

You told me that context is key so I don't dwell on certain verses but instead the message provided in context.

I dont believe in interpreting scripture since it is written in human language to be comprehended as one would any other text written in human language by human authors.

I have read the chapter and nothing of the chapter speaks to me about "testifying". From the much I know, we testify because it is one of the commandments given us by Jesus Christ to go out as "witnesses" preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God which He taught to anyone who will hear it . So, I ask again, what part of John 15 speaks to you of "testifying"?

What is the fruit you believe Jesus Christ speaks of in that context.

Kobojunkie:
So, striving towards SINLESSNESS aka Perfection or Holiness, as commanded by Jesus Christ in the New Covenant amounts to pretty much the same thing as that which rules in even the world today?

So, where Jesus Christ teaches His followers , in Mattthew 25 vs 14 - 30 , the parable of the 10 talents, that in His Kingdom,they ought to us the little they have in order to be given more, .e.g. understanding, applies to this context how?

And what Jesus Christ said in John 15 vs 1 - 16, of the need for His own to abide in Him in other that He may abide in them so they can produce fruits through the doing of good(righteous) works just as He did and more, applies here how?

Oga, I am not here to argue with you . Folks like you do not argue to gain understanding. You argue because it is a sport for you.
I dont have that time.
Believe me, my 24 hours is busier than most Nigerians in Nigeria.

First and foremost, it's God that converts soul and no individuals, second of all every community is peculiar and finally, this thing happens because the pastors were appointed by man and not God.

so, people whey dey attend rccg, deeper life, ecwa, etc will all go to different heaven ? or they are not Christians too?

Themandator:

Resident Pastors are paid to sit down and invest their time in God's business.
They are paid
Their children are covered medically and academically
If you can't abide by this rule go and face that side hustle.
Many things suffer when they try to combine this business.. It is a serious spiritual work... You can get killed for carelessness
Calabar will soon evaluate them

Wait a minute.... these men are paid 40k and how much do u make per month?

HigherEd:
First, I would commend the living faith church for the great work in investing churches across rural communities and employing paid 16,000 Pastors to lead those churches.

That said, this controversy allowed me to understand that a vast majority of us Nigerians behave like locust (apologies to anyone offended).

Eat, eat, eat is all they know. Contribution and multiplication is not their concern. Let's just exploit what is available, divide it, eat it and wait for the next supply.

This is why as a people we actually produce so little but consume so very much.
We are a nation of exploiters...

I have learnt personal lessons from this writeup and I would be sure to make personal amends in my own life. Just about condemning those pastors that are running from duty, and the holy spirit reminded me of something that was placed in my hand which failed but I have not given account neither have I replaced it to the person. The person never asked probably cause of our close relationship, and he's rich but that doesn't absolves me of my responsibility to integrity.

1) Never accept to do anything you have no passion for simply because of economic benefits whether fringe or large.

2) Whatever has been committed to your hands by those who invested in you must be nurtured to grow with all your effort.

3) If what has been committed to your hand fails for any reason, have the honor to return it at least the way you met it. Be truthful to your investor. Don't wait till you are fired or cursed out.
As a people we must learn to RESIGN when we see glaringly that we are unqualified or unable to carry certain responsibilities.

I tapped into your anointing Sir.
Leave the na says it!
They have nothing to offer or add to the Kingdom since repentance is not in their dairy yet God wants all Souls to repent of their sins and come to Him!

kingxsamz:

All these one na lame excuses nobody is ready to read. Christians will say "where two or three are gathered, the lord is there" but na still their pastors dey vex say people no plenty for church, even though there are at least 3 churches in every street. There are more Christians in this country and they're still looking for more. They say they want to win souls, but the souls they want to win have already been won by another church.
So basically, what they're doing is trying to win members from other churches. And more members guarantees massive weekly income.
Na who do advert pass they usually sell, that's why their daddy GO is angry and sacking pastors anyhow because the pastors no get sweet mouth to cajole people to come and buy the market they're selling.
Anybody that says this isn't about tithe and offering is just lying to himself, so ya'll keep crying.

spot on!

it's all about money period! church na business!

kingxsamz:


All men?
That's laughable because I can walk 10 minutes in Lagos and count 30 churches.
So who are the people your pastor is buiding 10 thousand churches for? The Christian doctrine says "everyone must spread the gospel", no matter the circumstances. So why aren't you guys going to Afghanistan, Pakistan Iraq, South Korea and Iran in numbers, trying to "win souls"? Abi those ones don't deserve to 'know God'?
Anyways, it still doesn't change the fact that church is a business.

Why can't you go and establish your own if it's that easy. Or are you not looking for good business to give you good money? After all you know what is business and what isn't.

Kobojunkie:
Wait a minute.... these men are paid 40k and how much do u make per month?

They were shown the payslip... And let me tell you something about ministry..
Jesus sent his disciples without purse and they returned and he asked them..... When I sent you without purse lack you anything and they said.. We lacked nothing....



If you focus on this work as a calling, I assure you that you won't need that salary.... Impart people with the word and see them return to bless you


Somebody who wasn't a Pastor finished preaching be use he is a part of the officiating ministers in those local branches and somebody gave him brown envelop that his ministration had depth and impart

The proof of this anointing is impart..... You are not an administrator, you are a spirit leading men into the spirit world... If you are successful, you won't need salary.


Bishop himself started with less than 10 members.. If he did it like this guy we are discussing the church would not have grown to what it is today

THEWRITERSMIND:
It's all about the Benjamins, even Jehovah's witness people don double their hustle, they now collect money from members via https://donate.jw.org/

Las las all man go open church

You are wrong on this.
From what I knew,Since the Corona Era started Jehovah Witnesses don't meet in their kingdom hall as usual. ( REASONS BEST INOW TO THEM)
Now tell me, if donating online is not advice, how did you want them to finance their printing of publications etc.

The reason i don't go to church. My neighbors keeping saying am a sinner for not going to church. Even trying to convince me which i hate so much.