blueAgent:


I totally agree.

Any honest person would acknowledge that Paul was referring to the law of Moses as the
10commandments does not contain curses.

It would be ironic for one to claim Paul was referring to the 10commandments, the question is
How would one not bowing to Idol,not using the name of God in vain,Not killing or committing adueltry bring curse to the person?

Which means Paul was never referring to the 10commandments

To add to that a little bit, if I may... regarding which Law was "nailed to the Cross":

First of all, if we make up a version of Paul who disagrees with Jesus, then Who is right, and Who should we agree with ?

Let's decide, by referring to the following Verses:

Colossians 2:16 (NKJV):
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

God's 10 Commandments (founded on His Two Most Important Commandments): Are ANY of these against us ?

No, of course not. Nor are any contrary to us.

Paul is obviously talking about the Old Covenant Jewish Law for priests, feasts, sacrifices, and rituals (like circumcision).

Furthermore, what was Paul referring to when he went on to say in Colossians 2:16 (NKJV):
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths"

Which sabbaths ?
The Weekly Sabbath of the Fourth Commandment of God's Ten Commandments ?
Or the Annual Sabbaths, such as they had during the feasts (or "festivals" ), as listed in Leviticus 23... from Moses' Law ?

Obvious again...

Since God's 10 Commandments are NOT against anyone, these were NOT "nailed to the cross".

Only Old Coventant Jewish (Mosaic) Law was... regarding priests, feast, sacrifces, and rituals (like circumcision).

When Paul says, "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths", it is apparent that it can't be the Weekly Sabbath of the Fourth Commandment, for none of the 10 Commandments is against us; but only the annual sabbaths that were certain days of the feasts (festivals).

But of course, people who wish to keep Sunday read these texts to support what they want.

But to do so, they manufacture a "version of" Paul who disagrees with Jesus.

awitness41:


To add to that a little bit, if I may... regarding which Law was "nailed to the Cross":...
But to do so, they manufacture a "version of" Paul who disagrees with Jesus.

I am certain you remember This Law "not a jot of My Word"

Because Law can be read does not mean everyone can read it.

No one takes a Doctors Notes to the man on the street to interpret it for them.

blueAgent:


Paying Tithes are commanded by God in the Bible, even in new testament Jesus still acknowledge payment of tithes.

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Luke 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Not paying tithes is also breaking God's 8th Commandment of "you shall not steal".

From Malachi 3:8-10 (NKJV):
8
“Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings.
9
You are cursed with a curse,
For you have robbed Me,
Even this whole nation.
10
Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.

If we don't tithe, we are stealing from God.
Thus, not tithing is breaking God's 8th Commandment.
Jesus also says tithing should be done.
Why ?
Because Jesus wants us to keep the Ten Commandments, which "hang on" (are founded on) the Two Most Important Commandments to Love God and others.

awitness41:


Not paying tithes is also breaking God's 8th Commandment of "you shall not steal".

From Malachi 3:8-10 (NKJV):
8
“Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings.
9
You are cursed with a curse,
For you have robbed Me,
Even this whole nation.
10
Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.

If we don't tithe, we are stealing from God.
Thus, not tithing is breaking God's 8th Commandment.
Jesus also says tithing should be done.
Why ?
Because Jesus wants us to keep the Ten Commandments, which "hang on" (are founded on) the Two Most Important Commandments to Love God and others.

Excellent response bro.
Thanks.

awitness41:


To add to that a little bit, if I may... regarding which Law was "nailed to the Cross":

First of all, if we make up a version of Paul who disagrees with Jesus, then Who is right, and Who should we agree with ?

Let's decide, by referring to the following Verses:

Colossians 2:16 (NKJV):
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

God's 10 Commandments (founded on His Two Most Important Commandments): Are ANY of these against us ?

No, of course not. Nor are any contrary to us.

Paul is obviously talking about the Old Covenant Jewish Law for priests, feasts, sacrifices, and rituals (like circumcision).

Furthermore, what was Paul referring to when he went on to say in Colossians 2:16 (NKJV):
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths"

Which sabbaths ?
The Weekly Sabbath of the Fourth Commandment of God's Ten Commandments ?
Or the Annual Sabbaths, such as they had during the feasts (or "festivals" ), as listed in Leviticus 23... from Moses' Law ?

Obvious again...

Since God's 10 Commandments are NOT against anyone, these were NOT "nailed to the cross".

Only Old Coventant Jewish (Mosaic) Law was... regarding priests, feast, sacrifces, and rituals (like circumcision).

When Paul says, "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths", it is apparent that it can't be the Weekly Sabbath of the Fourth Commandment, for none of the 10 Commandments is against us; but only the annual sabbaths that were certain days of the feasts (festivals).

But of course, people who wish to keep Sunday read these texts to support what they want.

But to do so, they manufacture a "version of" Paul who disagrees with Jesus.

Perfect.
Thanks for your contribution.

MaxInDHouse:
Please what exactly are you saying?

To me and my entire global family there's no difference in the laws God gave Moses to pass to the Israelites. But if think there's any difference it's OK go and sort it out with your fellow believers and make the best use of it!

Every honest person knows that they are different as proven in God's word and this thread.

You claiming that they are not different would not make it not to be different neither would God hold you blameless for denying his word.

MaxInDHouse:
Please what exactly are you saying?

To me and my entire global family there's no difference in the laws God gave Moses to pass to the Israelites. But if think there's any difference it's OK go and sort it out with your fellow believers and make the best use of it!

If there are no difference from God's laws or commandments and that of Moses, then why is adueltry, stealing,bowing to other gods,killing,are all still sin or offensive to God ,while Circumcision, offering of sacrifice for sin,stoning to death for sin, and other requirements of the law of Moses are no longer expected from us?


1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

blueAgent:

If there are no difference from God's laws or commandments and that of Moses, then why is adueltry, stealing,bowing to other gods,killing,are all still sin or offensive to God ,while Circumcision, offering of sacrifice for sin,stoning to death for sin, and other requirements of the law of Moses are no longer expected from us?
1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

If you believe they are not different it's OK so go out there and apply what you know in a PRACTICAL SENSE, the result is what God wants not your claim! Matthew 7:16-18; James 2:18-26

My global family teaches that all the LAWS God sent Moses to PRESENT to the Israelites including everything all the prophets taught are under two laws {Matthew 22:36-40} so we know how to apply it practically within our global family of peace loving worshipers! Isaiah 2:2-4

So please go and practice what you know!

MaxInDHouse:


If you believe they are not different it's OK so go out there and apply what you know in a PRACTICAL SENSE, the result is what God wants not your claim! Matthew 7:16-18; James 2:18-26

My global family teaches that all the LAWS God sent Moses to PRESENT to the Israelites including everything all the prophets taught are under two laws {Matthew 22:36-40} so we know how to apply it practically within our global family of peace loving worshipers! Isaiah 2:2-4

So please go and practice what you know!

It's funny how you quoted Matthew 22:36-40.
Yet you do not know what it means to love God and your neighbours.


Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Here is what is means to love God and your neighbours.


Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


To love God and your neighbours is to obey the 10commandments and not just claiming and showing brotherly love of a sect and teaching false doctrines contrary to God's words.

The only evidence that we love God and our neighbours is to obey his 10commandments.


John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

My friend, there's no need for this SUPER STORY.
Jesus said "by their FRUITS you will know them" {Matthew 7:16} so since you and your fellow believers in your church knows how to apply what Jesus said @ Matthew 22:36-40, go and apply it PRACTICALLY, it's not through some fruitless arguments that people will know how good you people are in applying God's word in a perfect sense.
NO!
Jesus said honest hearted and sincere observers from all the earth will notice your group as the best globally! Matthew 5:13-16

So leave the STORY and get to WORK people will see the benefits of the FAITH of your Church through the fine WORKS of your Church! James 2:18-26

blueAgent:

It's funny how you quoted Matthew 22:36-40.
Yet you do not know what it means to love God and your neighbours.
Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Here is what is means to love God and your neighbours.
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
To love God and your neighbours is to obey the 10commandments and not just claiming and showing brotherly love of a sect and teaching false doctrines contrary to God's words.
The only evidence that we love God and our neighbours is to obey his 10commandments.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

MaxInDHouse:


If you believe they are not different it's OK so go out there and apply what you know in a PRACTICAL SENSE, the result is what God wants not your claim! Matthew 7:16-18; James 2:18-26

My global family teaches that all the LAWS God sent Moses to PRESENT to the Israelites including everything all the prophets taught are under two laws {Matthew 22:36-40} so we know how to apply it practically within our global family of peace loving worshipers! Isaiah 2:2-4

So please go and practice what you know!

How can the laws be the same when Jesus told us to keep the 10commandments inorder to earn eternal life but never asked us to do circumcision or any of the laws Moses commanded?


Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

MaxInDHouse:
My friend, there's no need for this SUPER STORY.
Jesus said "by their FRUITS you will know them" {Matthew 7:16} so since you and your fellow believers in your church knows how to apply what Jesus said @ Matthew 22:36-40, go and apply it PRACTICALLY, it's not through some fruitless arguments that people will know how good you people are in applying God's word in a perfect sense.
NO!
Jesus said honest hearted and sincere observers from all the earth will notice your group as the best globally! Matthew 5:13-16

So leave the STORY and get to WORK people will see the benefits of the FAITH of your Church through the fine WORKS of your Church! James 2:18-26

You keep repeating Matthew 7:16 as evidence of your sect been God's People but the irony is that ,that same verse and chapters before that, which you craftly ignored commanded us to keep the law.

How ironic.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Would you quote and accept Matthew 7:20 while rejecting Matthew 7:12?��

MaxInDHouse:
My friend, there's no need for this SUPER STORY.
Jesus said "by their FRUITS you will know them" {Matthew 7:16} so since you and your fellow believers in your church knows how to apply what Jesus said @ Matthew 22:36-40, go and apply it PRACTICALLY, it's not through some fruitless arguments that people will know how good you people are in applying God's word in a perfect sense.
NO!
Jesus said honest hearted and sincere observers from all the earth will notice your group as the best globally! Matthew 5:13-16

So leave the STORY and get to WORK people will see the benefits of the FAITH of your Church through the fine WORKS of your Church! James 2:18-26

Let me tell you what you don't know.


It's self evident in Matthew 7:12-21

That only by keeping the commandments to love God and ones neighbour, which are a summary of the 10commandments can one bear fruits.


It's also self evident that to love ones neighbour and God is to keep the 10commandments.


Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

JW feel that they bear fruits ,while before God they are bearing no fruits.

You cannot bear fruits while disobeying the commandments of God.
JW are only obeying the commandments of men not God.




Note this Bible verses.


Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Dtruthspeaker:


I am certain you remember This Law "not a jot of My Word"

Because Law can be read does not mean everyone can read it.

No one takes a Doctors Notes to the man on the street to interpret it for them.

It's funny how you have failed or ignored to answer my question.

Let me repeat it, is the laws of Moses still valid or in effect?

Your problem is judging from your PERSONAL opinion forgetting that there are billions of people around you, each with his personal opinion on what we read in the Bible.
If you're saying others are wrong because of what you concluded after reading the Bible billions out there are also saying the same thing. So where is the FRUIT of your personal opinion?

blueAgent:

Let me tell you what you don't know.
It's self evident in Matthew 7:12-21
That only by keeping the commandments to love God and ones neighbour, which are a summary of the 10commandments can one bear fruits.
It's also self evident that to love ones neighbour and God is to keep the 10commandments.
Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
JW feel that they bear fruits ,while before God they are bearing no fruits.
You cannot bear fruits while disobeying the commandments of God.
JW are only obeying the commandments of men not God.
Note this Bible verses.
Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

MaxInDHouse:
Your problem is judging from your PERSONAL opinion forgetting that there are billions of people around you, each with his personal opinion on what we read in the Bible.
If you're saying others are wrong because of what you concluded after reading the Bible billions out there are also saying the same thing. So where is the FRUIT of your personal opinion?

The Fruit of his "opinion" is this, Max.

Those who Love God and Jesus, and others as themself (i.e. those who obey the Two Most Important Commandments), stop willfully sinning, just like Jesus Christ said ("sin no more" ).

It's not that True Christians don't slip unwillfully in their thoughts; but because they have the Holy Spirit operating in them, they rebuke those thoughts instantly in the name of Jesus Christ and Walk on.

And even less often, True Christians might even unwillfully slip in a word here or there. If so, they are convicted quickly by the Holy Spirit, and apologize to God for it and are forgiven through Jesus Christ, and Walk on.

And even less often than that, True Christians might (rarely) unwillfully slip in a behavior. If so, they are convicted right away by the Holy Spirit, apologize for it, and again, Walk on in forgiveness through Jesus Christ.

It's a Growing Walk, of course.
But as a True Christian keeps Walking with God and Jesus, their thoughts, words, and behaviors will increasingly conform to what Christ wants us to be, and they will stumble less and less often.

In this way, they end up treating others as they want to be treated, not wanting to be sinned against themself.
And they could not possibly do that without the Holy Spirit operating in them.
After all, NO ONE will simply "be good" for long without Loving God and Jesus - and Their Word - more than themselves.
And that includes not sinning anymore (for which knowledge of the Righteous Moral Law of God is a must).

I told you before, Max, if you can declare the JWs to be willful-sin free, then you'll have something to boast about.

If not, then one's "fruits" of having "some good feelings toward their 'friends'" doesn't mean too much, because even the devil acts like an angel of light sometimes, and even atheists do "some good things" and might even be against war; and even atheists have social clubs where they interact with each other too.

As I also told you before, Max, the JWs can't even define the word "sin", because they claim God's Ten Commandment Law isn't valid.
Yet sin is "the transgression of the Law" according the the Bible... and it wasn't talking about "Mosaic" Law, either.

As you always seem to fight the Truth by claiming your group is somehow more "righteous" than other groups, or insinuating other's groups are not as "righteous" as yours, I will again remind you that Catholics (the beast church of prophecy) are a much larger group (many times larger) then the JWs, and even they don't support abortion (which is a good thing). Is the Pope going to get to Heaven ? No, because he keeps wrong things in his life too.

Many can tell you the Bible Verses to support the following:
It's not what we do right that gets us to Heaven.
It's when we willfully keep wrong (i.e. sin) that keeps us out of Heaven.
Jesus says so Himself.

So if the JWs don't preach to their "group" to refrain from willful sin - ALL willful sin - then many of them aren't going to go to the final destination they wish.
But how can they do that if the JWs continue to pretend that God's Ten Commandments aren't valid, and thus can't even define what "sin" is ?

Please know - I don't write this for your sake, Max, because I know you won't accept it.
I only write this for the sake of others who read this thread.
Those who Love God will get something out of it.

I still Love you, Max.
But your group is no more "righteous" than any other group claiming "Christian".

My thanks to BlueAgent who has done a very good job with this thread.
He preaches the Truth, and it is an honor to know him... a new Brother to me (as I also consider Splinz).

awitness41:


The Fruit of his "opinion" is this, Max.

Those who Love God and Jesus, and others as themself (i.e. those who obey the Two Most Important Commandments), stop willfully sinning, just like Jesus Christ said ("sin no more" ).

It's not that True Christians don't slip unwillfully in their thoughts; but because they have the Holy Spirit operating in them, they rebuke those thoughts instantly in the name of Jesus Christ and Walk on.

And even less often, True Christians might even unwillfully slip in a word here or there. If so, they are convicted quickly by the Holy Spirit, and apologize to God for it and are forgiven through Jesus Christ, and Walk on.

And even less often than that, True Christians might (rarely) unwillfully slip in a behavior. If so, they are convicted right away by the Holy Spirit, apologize for it, and again, Walk on in forgiveness through Jesus Christ.

It's a Growing Walk, of course.
But as a True Christian keeps Walking with God and Jesus, their thoughts, words, and behaviors will increasingly conform to what Christ wants us to be, and they will stumble less and less often.

In this way, they end up treating others as they want to be treated, not wanting to be sinned against themself.
And they could not possibly do that without the Holy Spirit operating in them.
After all, NO ONE will simply "be good" for long without Loving God and Jesus - and Their Word - more than themselves.
And that includes not sinning anymore (for which knowledge of the Righteous Moral Law of God is a must).

I told you before, Max, if you can declare the JWs to be willful-sin free, then you'll have something to boast about.

If not, then one's "fruits" of having "some good feelings toward their 'friends'" doesn't mean too much, because even the devil acts like an angel of light sometimes, and even atheists do "some good things" and might even be against war; and even atheists have social clubs where they interact with each other too.

As I also told you before, Max, the JWs can't even define the word "sin", because they claim God's Ten Commandment Law isn't valid.
Yet sin is "the transgression of the Law" according the the Bible... and it wasn't talking about "Mosaic" Law, either.

As you always seem to fight the Truth by claiming your group is somehow more "righteous" than other groups, or insinuating other's groups are not as "righteous" as yours, I will again remind you that Catholics (the beast church of prophecy) are a much larger group (many times larger) then the JWs, and even they don't support abortion (which is a good thing). Is the Pope going to get to Heaven ? No, because he keeps wrong things in his life too.

Many can tell you the Bible Verses to support the following:
It's not what we do right that gets us to Heaven.
It's when we willfully keep wrong (i.e. sin) that keeps us out of Heaven.
Jesus says so Himself.

So if the JWs don't preach to their "group" to refrain from willful sin - ALL willful sin - then many of them aren't going to go to the final destination they wish.
But how can they do that if the JWs continue to pretend that God's Ten Commandments aren't valid, and thus can't even define what "sin" is ?

Please know - I don't write this for your sake, Max, because I know you won't accept it.
I only write this for the sake of others who read this thread.
Those who Love God will get something out of it.

I still Love you, Max.
But your group is no more "righteous" than any other group claiming "Christian".

My thanks to BlueAgent who has done a very good job with this thread.
He preaches the Truth, and it is an honor to know him... a new Brother to me (as I also consider Splinz).

Thank you bro For your excellent response to Mr Max and your compliments, its an honour knowing you.

MaxInDHouse:
Your problem is judging from your PERSONAL opinion forgetting that there are billions of people around you, each with his personal opinion on what we read in the Bible.
If you're saying others are wrong because of what you concluded after reading the Bible billions out there are also saying the same thing. So where is the FRUIT of your personal opinion?

I do not judge from my personal opinion.

You are wrong, the Bible is not to be Interpreted by individual or one's personal opinion rather by comparing verses with verses.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

I made sure I applied Bible principles that says all verses are given by the Holy Spirit for teaching,correction and edification and hence must be considered in all teachings.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Secondly one presenting or trying to understand a doctrine must read and consider all the Bible verses that are related to the subject or doctrine no verses should be ignored.


Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:



And if you are really interested in pleasing God and not man or your sect, you would consider this teachings on this thread and diligently search the word of God with a pure heart to know the truth.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

God is not the author of confusion, and he cannot contradict himself.

awitness41:

The Fruit of his "opinion" is this, Max.
Those who Love God and Jesus, and others as themself (i.e. those who obey the Two Most Important Commandments), stop willfully sinning, just like Jesus Christ said "sin no more"

This is not what Jesus meant when he said "by their FRUITS you will know them" {Matthew 7:16} because before then he said "YOU are the light of the world, a city built on the mountain top cannot be hidden" {Matthew 5:14-16} definitely what Jesus meant by FRUIT will be noticed within a group of people {John 13:34-35} whose preaching and teaching is from the Bible and supported by God's Holy Spirit in order for them to exhibit the nine qualities of the Spirit of God! Galatians 5:22-23

Note that no human is totally free from the works of the flesh {Romans 7:21-25} because we are all born sinners {Romans 5:12} unlike Jesus who inherited no sin, so each of us will continue fighting with one of this works of the flesh {Galatians 5:19-21} since we are in the flesh.
So what makes a Christian differ from an unbeliever? The Christian acknowledges his sinful nature and ready to continue working on it to blot it out, God's word likens this process to washing of clothes {Isaiah 1:18 compare to Revelations 7:14} therefore the believer make a thorough search for the group of people whose objective is to do this and he keeps exerting himself vigorously while being in their midst. Luke 13:24 compare to Hebrews 10:24-25

But the unbeliever doesn't think all that is necessary he feels he can just pick up the Bible and after getting the sense in his own he's good to go without making a comparison with others to be sure if he's improving. All he thinks within himself is he's gotten the sense of what is required and so he wants to judge others based on his own personal opinion on what he read. The same thing goes to the atheist and agnostics, those ones trust in their instinct so they feel there's no need been in the company of people under the same line of thought.

So if you can't PRESENT any group of people PRACTICALLY APPLYING what you're saying it's just simple, you're more or less an atheist. You must be IDENTIFIED along with a specific group working together as ONE BODY to exhibit the FRUIT of God's Holy Spirit, that's the only way you can be a part of those to whom Jesus said:


“You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt loses its strength, how will its saltiness be restored? It is no longer usable for anything except to be thrown outside to be trampled on by men. “You are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when located on a mountain. People light a lamp and set it, not under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it shines on all those in the house. Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens" Matthew 5:13-16

So if you're not with any recognizable group globally known for their unique faith then you are deceiving yourselves you're nothing more than ATHEISTS!

blueAgent:

It's funny how you have failed or ignored to answer my question.

Let me repeat it, is the laws of Moses still valid or in effect?

I did not respond to you because we had gotten to the end of your first enquiry
as per the direction of your thread, which was "the 10commandments and the laws of Moses are 2 different laws written by 2 different authors,"

And you had already admitted the Truth of your error in saying "its true, both laws were given by God and both laws"

So the other questions you asked about sin offering, circumcision are CHANGE OF POSTS and New argument, which I only patronized you, to show you that I could answer it.

But, as we say in Law, "there must be an end to arguments"and I have already finished with my presentation, so this is A Fresh Argument which I was not willing to enter with you since you have experted yourself on knowing Law and how they operate and you are never going to listen to anything I am going to say.

You are only here to put yourself on full alert to pick on anything YOU THINK is an error with which you would use to question me.

And there are many things which I am always going to say which YOU WOULD ALWAYS THINK IS AN ERROR, and which I will counter you with many other Laws you never knew were there, exactly as an ss3 student arguing about medicine with a doctor.

You do not know much but you already think you do and there is nothing anyone can do about it, ONLY YOU!

blueAgent:

is the laws of Moses still valid or in effect?

Awitness inadvertently answered your question for he showed you that Paying Tithes is still in Force

awitness41:

"Not paying tithes is also breaking God's 8th Commandment of "you shall not steal".

From Malachi 3:8-10 (NKJV):
8
“Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings...

And you applauded his answer.

blueAgent:

Excellent response bro.
Thanks.

So you have already proven that you know the answer to the question and I know, you knew this.

So, why do you ask me this question? Because you think (again, you and your thinkings) that you could ensnare me whereas, I would answer you and you would have to ask more questions, therefore, an unending argument which is vain and I hate doing vanities.

If your God is not the author of confusion then PRESENT the group of people PRACTICALLY APPLYING what your God is saying.

As for my own God i PRESENT the Organization of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

blueAgent:

God is not the author of confusion, and he cannot contradict himself.

blueAgent:


Secondly one presenting or trying to understand a doctrine must read and consider all the Bible verses that are related to the subject or doctrine no verses should be ignored.

Absolutely, 100% correct.
All Verses on a given topic must hold fast, with none thrown out.
That's the only way to reconcile the Truth of any given doctrine.

I'm so glad you put here what I also have said several times in other posts... not because I said it, but simply because it's the Truth.
Thank you, Brother.

awitness41:

My thanks to BlueAgent who has done a very good job with this thread.
He preaches the Truth, and it is an honor to know him... a new Brother to me (as I also consider Splinz).

Hello bro, good to hear from you. Well done.

MaxInDHouse:
If your God is not the author of confusion then PRESENT the group of people PRACTICALLY APPLYING what your God is saying.

As for my own God i PRESENT the Organization of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

What you present does not count, but what God commands.

God only recognises any Organization that keeps his commandments.



2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


His commandments are the only evidence of those he recognise or that love him.

The commandments of God are the only form of love that is acceptable to God.
Cults,Atheist, false prophets and churches also show love and charity they have all the elements of love, but they fail to keep God's commandments hence they have not worthy in God's sight.

There is nothing like a God without organized and orderly worshipers so if your God is real then there must be a RECOGNIZABLE group of people to the name of your God! Micah 4:5

My God is JEHOVAH and His people are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Isaiah 43:10-12

blueAgent:

What you present does not count, but what God commands.

God only recognises any Organization that keeps his commandments.



2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


His commandments are the only evidence of those he recognise or that love him.

The commandments of God are the only form of love that is acceptable to God.
Cults,Atheist, false prophets and churches also show love and charity they have all the elements of love, but they fail to keep God's commandments hence they have not worthy in God's sight.

Dtruthspeaker:


I did not respond to you because we had gotten to the end of your first enquiry
as per the direction of your thread, which was "the 10commandments and the laws of Moses are 2 different laws written by 2 different authors,"

And you had already admitted the Truth of your error in saying "its true, both laws were given by God and both laws"

So the other questions you asked about sin offering, circumcision are CHANGE OF POSTS and New argument, which I only patronized you, to show you that I could answer it.

But, as we say in Law, "there must be an end to arguments"and I have already finished with my presentation, so this is A Fresh Argument which I was not willing to enter with you since you have experted yourself on knowing Law and how they operate and you are never going to listen to anything I am going to say.

You are only here to put yourself on full alert to pick on anything YOU THINK is an error with which you would use to question me.

And there are many things which I am always going to say which YOU WOULD ALWAYS THINK IS AN ERROR, and which I will counter you with many other Laws you never knew were there, exactly as an ss3 student arguing about medicine with a doctor.

You do not know much but you already think you do and there is nothing anyone can do about it, ONLY YOU!



Awitness inadvertently answered your question for he showed you that Paying Tithes is still in Force


And you applauded his answer.



So you have already proven that you know the answer to the question and I know, you knew this.

So, why do you ask me this question? Because you think (again, you and your thinkings) that you could ensnare me whereas, I would answer you and you would have to ask more questions, therefore, an unending argument which is vain and I hate doing vanities.

It is not an error, both laws were given by God but both were not written by him,


If both laws were given by God for 2 different purpose and reason ,does that make them the same law?

If a law is given to prohibit over speeding, and another law is given to prescribe the punishment for offenders for over speeding. Will that not be two laws?

Now if 5years later and the Government in power feels people are not obeying the traffic rules and the government decides to change the rules or punishment for traffic offense, is it wrong to say the laws for punishment for traffic offense had been changed?

For example let's assume the punishment for breaking traffic laws was payment of a fine of 20000naria and the government decides to change the law and introduce a new punishment which includes 3years imprisonment. has the law not been changed?


From this example one can see that the government still upholds the law against overspeeding or traffic violation , but it has altered, abolished the former law that stipulates the punishment for traffic offenders while replacing it with a stricter and more severe law.

This same principle applies to God's 10commandments and the laws of Moses

The latter( law of Moses) has been altered but God's 10commandments can, I repeat never be changed.

You can see that you are wrong in saying the law of Moses was not abolished.

For the issue of tithes , they have existed for over 500years before God gave Moses the laws and ordinances.

Abraham and Jacob paid tithes.

MaxInDHouse:
There is nothing like a God without organized and orderly worshipers so if your God is real then there must be a RECOGNIZABLE group of people to the name of your God! Micah 4:5

My God is JEHOVAH and His people are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Isaiah 43:10-12

You are wrong, the creteria for knowing God's People is not organization and orderliness, if it was by that most occult group eg freemason would have qualified.

The only creteria approved by God is that of keeping his commandments.

Even the Devil knows that ,and thats why he is making war with those who keep God's commandments


Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


He Devil has no problem with those who feel they know God by how they feel or their population or their demonstration of love. His problem is with those who do God's will or obey God's commandments.




Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

From the above verse ,as shown to Apostles John in the book of revelation.

JW are not recognised as God's people in this last days.

The people recognised by God in this last days are those that keep his commandments.

blueAgent:

You are wrong, the creteria for knowing God's People is not organization and orderliness, if it was by that most occult group eg freemason would have qualified.
The only creteria approved by God is that of keeping his commandments.
Even the Devil knows that ,and thats why he is making war with those who keep God's commandments
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
He Devil has no problem with those who feel they know God by how they feel or their population or their demonstration of love. His problem is with those who do God's will or obey God's commandments.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
From the above verse ,as shown to Apostles John in the book of revelation.
JW are not recognised as God's people in this last days.
The people recognised by God in this last days are those that keep his commandments.

So which group is doing the will of your own God today?

I'm not disputing that your God doesn't recognize us, i said:

WE ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, AND OUR OWN GOD RECOGNIZES US AS HIS PEOPLE!

So don't get it twisted, i'm not talking about your own God but our own!

blueAgent:

If a law is given to prohibit over speeding, and another law is given to prescribe the punishment for offenders for over speeding. Will that not be two laws?

Now if 5years later and the Government in power feels people are not obeying the traffic rules and the government decides to change the rules or punishment for traffic offense, is it wrong to say the laws for punishment for traffic offense had been changed?

For example let's assume the punishment for breaking traffic laws was payment of a fine of 20000naria and the government decides to change the law and introduce a new punishment which includes 3years imprisonment. has the law not been changed?

From this example one can see that the government still upholds the law against overspeeding or traffic violation , but it has altered, abolished the former law that stipulates the punishment for traffic offenders while replacing it with a stricter and more severe law.

Did I not tell you that there many many things you do not know about Law and the operation of Law? And it took 7 years for 7 years just to learn the laws and another 3-5 years to Practice it before A Lawyer can confidently say he is a lawyer.

And your questions beckon on me to make you a lawyer which is impossible for me to do to you.

So even after I have explained it to you, you refused to hear me and have held on to what you want to believe as is your right and I have left you to it.

Dtruthspeaker:


Did I not tell you that there many many things you do not know about Law and the operation of Law? And it took 7 years for 7 years just to learn the laws and another 3-5 years to Practice it before A Lawyer can confidently say he is a lawyer.

And your questions beckon on me to make you a lawyer which is impossible for me to do to you.

So even after I have explained it to you, you refused to hear me and have held on to what you want to believe as is your right and I have left you to it.

Weather you are a lawyer or not, the truth and fact is that the law of Moses has been abolished.

That's what the Bible says.
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

I hope you observed the word Abolished?

One does not need to be a lawyer inorder to understand what law means.

God did not become or need a lawyer to write the laws neither does he expect us to be one or to hire one inorder to understand what he said, example the children of Israel were not lawyers but they understood well what God said.

All we need is the Holy Spirit to guide us and to compare Bible verses to understand what God is teaching.

Secondly you never explained anything.

MaxInDHouse:


So which group is doing the will of your own God today?

I'm not disputing that your God doesn't recognize us, i said:

WE ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, AND OUR OWN GOD RECOGNIZES US AS HIS PEOPLE!

So don't get it twisted, i'm not talking about your own God but our own!

Your own god is not the God of the Bible, becos the God of the Bible has told us that only by obeying his commandments can one be his people, is obvious your people can not be God's people becos you don't obey God's 10commandments, so you better start looking for your own god.


The evidence that you know God and God knows you is by keeping his commandments and not by feelings.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.




Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

blueAgent:

Weather you are a lawyer or not, the truth and fact is that the law of Moses has been abolished..

These days, lot's of Shiit have been said by people who have Bibles, so... nothing new.