NNS83:

I agree with Simmy.
I asked my Pastor about this passage about 1 month ago during our bible study and he said that Jesus was referring to Himself in the context of being human as He was in human form so in a way He could not claim to be good. Though HE is God but in the same breath He was man.

alimat 2:

Meaning that Abraham, jacob, issac , moses etc serves Jesus

alimat 2:

Meaning that Abraham, jacob, issac , moses etc serves Jesus

Quote from: alimat 2 on August 13, 2009, 03:15 PM
Meaning that Abraham, jacob, issac , moses etc serves Jesus

errm? yer? i dont see the confusion here. Jesus was God in the sense that He and God are one. the bible says All will bow at his feet thru the authority given to him by God. So, yes Abe, jocob nd moses serve and served Jesus

Jesus had this conversation with some far to see and sad to see unbelievers in John 8:56-58

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham? Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Jesus was affirming that He was God manifest in the flesh. He is the Great "I AM", the Eternal One who revealed Himself to Moses in the burning bush -- Exodus 3:14.

So, if no one is good, Jesus who is fully human and fully deity has declared Himself God, the second Person in the Godhead.

Olabowale:


@Simmy: « #75 on: Yesterday at 03:31:32 PM »
Take off your opague glasses my man. There is no where that Jesus said that these men served him, before he was born. There was no verse in the Bible that pointed to any of them saying that he served Jesus. They said, always that their Lord God the Creator was unique, and very much unlike human. Jesus was human, at one point was unknown. God was always known. Jesus was born and helpless at one time. God was never in either positions. God was always in authority. Jesus was at one time not in authority. God was never helpless and needed any anyone. Jesus was helpless at least needing his mother. God never was humiliated. Read your Bible, it recorded the humilation suffered by Jesus from the hand of Jewish gangsters who you said hung him! God never dies. You said that Jesus died when he was nailed to the cross!

Moses who heard the voice of his Lord through the burning bush which the vegetation was not consumed, he did not see God! Jesus was seen by many many people; as a child, helpless in mom's hand. At the toddler and preteenager age. At the ages of up to the point that he became strong enough to fend for himself. Even then, we read that he asked people for food! Is any of the things that I point your heart to to reflect upon about Jesus the Quality of the Cherisher of all creations? Of course not!

Your claim that Jesus was God is of your own desire and there is no truth to it!

@ Olabowale

- Olabowale

I haven't had the liberty of personally welcoming you back from your sabbatical . . .  

Welcome back bro . . . Nice to have you back, to have you back is nice . . .

Couple of questions please . . .

1) Is there anything impossible for GOD?

2) Is GOD too proud to be "humiliated" coining your phrase?

3) Is it impossible for GOD to turn up legally & operate on earth the right way for that matter?

4) Is it impossible for GOD to render Himself vulnerable to the point of weakness for example?

5) Is it impossible for GOD to become a "Son of man" & be subjected to the whims & mercy of man?

6) Is it impossible for GOD to be in more than one place at the same time?

7) Is GOD omnipotent at all? . . .

Lets go over these sevens for now . . .

Olabowale:


@Recognise: Thanks for your best wishes. I wish you same and even better than what you wish me.

I pray that Allah soften your heart to accept Islam, the deen of Allah on human beings. Now to your questions.

1) Is there anything impossible for GOD?:
Unless He does not want to do it, based on His Position as the Creator. Impossibility is for creations

2) Is GOD too proud to be "humiliated" coining your phrase? :
Pride belongs to Allah alone. Those humans who say they have pride are liars

3) Is it impossible for GOD to turn up legally & operate on earth the right way for that matter?:
The earth is meant for creations

4) Is it impossible for GOD to render Himself vulnerable to the point of weakness for example?:
Creations are weak. Creator is never weak

5) Is it impossible for GOD to become a "Son of man"  & be subjected to the whims & mercy of man?
No. man is a creation, Adam is the first

6) Is it impossible for GOD to be in more than one place at the same time? :
From His Honored Position, He see, knows, hears everything all in one go

7) Is GOD omnipotent at all? . . . :
The Onmipotence is consistence to His Supremacy, Power, Knowledge, Creative ability, never dying

@Olabowale

- Olabowale

Some interesting responses there

Thanks for obliging, thanks for the accomodation and your sincere responses

Your prayer though, yeah, sincere, borders on the wishful thing line

Sorry, that kind of prayer or wish hasnt got the chance of ice in hell

Anyways that is another matter on its own.

Right lets get back to the original matter in hand

Please answer the questions in binaries

Only question #5 has a binary response backed up or followed with justifications

It was nice having the back ups because it preempts me needing to ask you for them - Thanks

It is imperative, we need binaries for questions #1); #2); #3) #4) #6) & #7) to precede your responses or answers

After you"ve responded, we'll take it from there . . .

Olabowale:


@Recognise:

I am always wishing people, in my sincere mind, the best . . .

1). As I have stated, there are two categories; The Creator, alone and the rest are the Creations. The Creator, God will not do somethings for example. He forbids them for Himself, so he restricts Himself from them. One of them is Injustices. Another is partnership. If there is a partner, then the Unique position of Himself as the sole Creator is not there, hence you may have a tug of war between two bosses! This single idea destroys Trinity. Now as to if there is Impossibility for God: my answer stands as stated above. There are things that do not fit His Majesty. Why do them, even if it is not difficult to be done. It is impossible that it will ever happen. Lets look at it this way: a real man will not want to be a woman, or ask another man to mount him. You will never find a King in the royal clothing doing the cleaning of his palace while the citixens are looking on.

2). Is humiliation a befitting experience for a king, by his subject?

Does it make sense for President Obama comes out on the White House lawn and says to a citizen to pelter him with raw eggs, just because he is trying to show how noble the occupant of the Oval office is? No. This simple thing sets him apart. Then compare that to the Creator! What is the point of subjecting Himself to humiliation, okay humility when He is the Sole Forgiver of all sins?

3). Is it not Majestic enough by His Mercy that He sent Human Messenger/Prophets to Humans, proiding complete guidance, to avoid sins and punishment and seeking His Mercy and Forgiveness, guaranteed by simple humanly possible deeds?

Allah did not request of us anything impossible, hence there is no need to act as a man, just to proof a point, whereas the Human prophets, your kind are not adequate, if it is true that you wish to belief?

@Olabowale

- Olabowale

Am feeling you . . . no doubt

but hey with all due respect. Please. Please, please give us the binaries first before the waffle

Give us an admission of YES or NO to the questions

after a YES or NO, you can then waffle as long and as much as you want

Thank you . . . 

PS: Dont change my questionings . . .

Just give a YES or NO with/and your justification(s) to questions #1); #2); #3); #4); #6) and #7)

$Osisi:


olabs let me tantalize your taste buds this afternoon

@$Osisi

- $Osisi

Hmm, yummy, very sumptuous and mouth-watering

but its not fair  

Tantalise him after September 19th

@Olabowale

-Olabowale

Still waiting for the binaries,

remember dont change my questionings . . .

Just give a YES or NO with/and your justification(s) to questions #1); #2); #3); #4); #6) and #7)

Once I have the binaries, you can then waffle on as much as you like

Recognise:

@$Osisi

- $Osisi

Hmm, yummy, very sumptuous and mouth-watering

but its not fair

Tantalise him after September 19th

@Olabowale

-Olabowale

Still waiting for the binaries,

remember dont change my questionings . . .

Just give a YES or NO with/and your justification(s) to questions #1); #2); #3); #4); #6) and #7)

Once I have the binaries, you can then waffle on as much as you like

olabowale:


@Recognise: Thanks for your best wishes. I wish . . . Now to your questions.

1) Is there anything impossible for GOD?: Unless He does not want to do it, based on His Position as the Creator. Impossibility is for creations

2) Is GOD too proud to be "humilated" coining your phrase? : Pride belongs to Allah alone. Those humans who say they have pride are liars

3) Is it impossible for GOD to turn up legally & operate on earth the right way for that matter?: The earth is meant for creations

4) Is it impossible for GOD to render Himself vulnerable to the point of weakness for example?: Creations are weak. Creator is never weak

5) Is it impossible for GOD to become a "Son of man"  & be subjected to the whims & mercy of man? No. man is a creation, Adam is the first

6) Is it impossible for GOD to be in more than one place at the same time? : From His Honored Position, He see, knows, hears everything all in one go

7) Is GOD omnipotent at all? . . . : The Onmipotence is consistence to His Supremacy, Power, Knowledge, Creative ability, never dying

olabowale:


@Recognise

I am always wishing people, in my sincere mind, the best . . .

1). As I have stated, there are two categories; The Creator, alone and the rest are the Creations. The Creator, God will not do somethings for example. He forbids them for Himself, so he restricts Himself from them. One of them is Injustices. Another is partnership. If there is a partner, then the Unique position of Himself as the sole Creator is not there, hence you may have a tug of war between two bosses! This single idea destroys Trinity. Now as to if there is Impossibility for God: my answer stands as stated above. There are things that do not fit His Majesty. Why do them, even if it is not difficult to be done. It is impossible that it will ever happen. Lets look at it this way: a real man will not want to be a woman, or ask another man to mount him. You will never find a King in the royal clothing doing the cleaning of his palace while the citixens are looking on.

2). Is humiliation a befitting experience for a king, by his subject? Does it make sense for President Obama comes out on the White House lawn and says to a citizen to pelter him with raw eggs, just because he is trying to show how noble the occupant of the Oval office is? No. This simple thing sets him apart. Then compare that to the Creator! What is the point of subjecting Himself to humiliation, okay humility when He is the Sole Forgiver of all sins?

3). Is it not Majestic enough by His Mercy that He sent Human Messenger/Prophets to Humans, proiding complete guidance, to avoid sins and punishment and seeking His Mercy and Forgiveness, guaranteed by simple humanly possible deeds? Allah did not request of us anything impossible, hence there is no need to act as a man, just to proof a point, whereas the Human prophets, your kind are not adequate, if it is true that you wish to belief?

olabowale:


4) Why vulnerable and why weak? Allah has shown Kindness, Mercy, etc by restricting Himself and allowing His Mercy to Overcome His Punishment! Have you seen a situation that a creation sees a vulnerability and weakness of another creation and never capitalize on it? Just imagine if it is true that Jesus was God, the Creator, and when the Christian said that he was seized and later on tortured and killed, tose period of his death could have seen much chaos among creations? No? Another point against deity of Jesus!

5). Why should the Creator humanise Himself? He demacates His position and role, different than that of the creations. While He needs nothing from creation, creation on the other hand needs everything from Him!

6). The line in my hand can not be unseen by me when I stretch my hand in the sunlight? Yes. The plainliness of this in my sight, is not as intensed as how all creations put together is in the full control of its Creator. Why then shoul this Creator the Only Superior Being not maintain His Position? Allah says I Rise Above My Throne! That say plenty, that even His Throne is beneath His majestic Position! We do not have a Lord God Creator cooked up in a chair, a throne  or something that restricts Him! Allah is above all of these things and He is in Total Control of everything. If I can have see my palm each time I stretch my opened hand in my front, should I have to go to that palm, hand, arm that I control?

7). There is nothing hiding, unseen, unknown, beyond hearing, beyond the complete knowledge, sight, etc of Allah. This is omnipotency at its Most Superior! And there is none that is omnipotent, along with Him!

olabowale:


1) Is there anything impossible for GOD?

2) Is GOD too proud to be "humilated" coining your phrase?
YES. If thats what you want. Pride is the GARMENT/RAINMENT of God. No one else

3) Is it impossible for GOD to turn up legally & operate on earth the right way for that matter?
Yes. It will not serve any purpose that human messenger is not fit enough to serve. A believing heart does not need unnecessary evidence so that he can believe

4) Is it impossible for GOD to render Himself vulnerable to the point of weakness for example?
Yes. Humiliation belongs to creation. The altimate Humiliator is Allah. Why would He have to experience what He has designed as a means of punishment to the disbelievers?

5) Is it impossible for GOD to become a "Son of man" & be subjected to the whims & mercy of man?
Yes. He does not have a parents and He is not a child of and or a father of anyone. That unique position separates Him from those who are created. Even Adam and or Eve who have no parents. Afterall, Jesus had a mother! Thats a parent. A beginning.

6) Is it impossible for GOD to be in more than one place at the same time?
Yes. Creation is just one thing, as a whole to Him, even though it is complex in your eye. While it is impossible to you, it is very easy for the Amighty to control everything from His Superior Position.

7) Is GOD omnipotent at all? . . .
Yes. Now I have to go serve the Omnipotent Allah by offerng my Asr Salah which He ordained on me.

@ Olabowale

- Olabowale

Phew! Thanks. We have them eventually. Had to literally prise the binaries out of you

Better late than never I say huh?

Interesting binaries, interesting submissions to validate the binaries too . . . 

Noticed I've compiled together your threads running up to eventually having your binaries responses . . .
question #1 is blank & unanswered. I wonder why?

With whats in hand so far from you.

Your admissions & affirmation?

Tut-tut-tut, It showed you up and highlighted a wobbly & shaking theology

You say GOD is omnipotent,

yet you've just limited GOD with impossibilities left, right, center & all over the place

Remember the corrupted template?

You and I briefly jaw-jawed & delved on the issue the year last

Olabowale:


Omnipotence: Unlimited Power! I wonder what is limitation in there>