@ katsumoto:  To add your point - How many chances does a man need to truly emancipate his people? I disagree that OBJ assisted in arresting the Northern notion of political invincibility and born-to-rule mentality; if anything he perpetuated it.

Tinubu may be guilty of all charges levelled against him  but you can't argue that his methods were effective, show me a politician who's been able to take on the self styled demi god (OBJ) and succeed like he has, even Atiku has been rendered irrelevant politically despite having inherited the  late Shehu Musa Yar'adua's political machinery.

As far as I am concerned, sometimes the end justifies the means. If the ACN governors really do deliver the dividends of democracy to the people, the story of that success will not be complete without Tinubu's name being in it

^True. Only time will tell. Just like we can never truly appreciate Fasola's effort in Lagos without appreciating Asiwaju who insisted against all odds that Fashola was the best man for the job back in 2007. Even I was against the way he forced Fashola on the party then and i was supporting Jimi Agbaje. Now am glad Fashola won thanks to Asiwaju.

But he still has a long way to go for him to become the Asiwaju of Yorubaland. At least let's see what happens in the next 4 years across the SW, then we will know if he deserves it. Like Katsumoto said, it's not yet uhuru.

OAM4J:

^True. Only time will tell. Just like we can never truly appreciate Fasola's effort in Lagos without appreciating Asiwaju who insisted against all odds that Fashola was the best man for the job back in 2007. Even I was against the way he forced Fashola on the party then and i was supporting Jimi Agbaje. Now am glad Fashola won thanks to Asiwaju.

But he still has a long way to go for him to become the Asiwaju of Yorubaland. At least let's see what happens in the next 4 years across the SW, then we will know if he deserves it. Like Katsumoto said, it's not yet uhuru.

Fashola has done a great job right?

But who are we comparing him with?

Who is the standard? Awolowo? or Ajasin?

Wizardofoz:

Fashola has done a great job right?

But who are we comparing him with?

Who is the standard? Awolowo? or Ajasin?

Fashola administers a state; lagos state for that matter. Compare him with Jakande or any other governor of lagos state because there are indices that can support such comparisons.It would be unfair to compare him with Ajasin (different states and eras) and you can't compare him with Awo because Awo ruled the entire region. You can also compare fashola with other present governors.

Katsumoto:

Fashola administers a state; lagos state for that matter. Compare him with Jakande or any other governor of lagos state because there are indices that can support such comparisons.It would be unfair to compare him with Ajasin (different states and eras) and you can't compare him with Awo because Awo ruled the entire region. You can also compare Fashola with other present governors.

So looking back at past administrators that have ruled Lagos before now, Fashola has done exceedingly well. And, you said we cant compare his achievements to Ajasin's, "different states and eras." And that is because being a good administrator in one state doesnt necessarily mean he would be successful in another state, some 200 miles from him?


Does that mean that the set of skills needed to succeed in Lagos is different from what would be required of him in, say, Ondo state?

Did Ajasin and jakande not from the same "era?"

I am getting lost here?

@Katsumoto and those who think the Ooni was supreme to the Alaafin

Why did the Ilorins try so hard to sack Oyo and not Ife. Why were the Ibadans under the authority the Alaafin even when the guy was instigating wars against them? Why did the Modakekes sack Ife three times and did not dare try that with Oyo or even Ibadan?
To those saying that the colonial guys made the Alaafin King of Yorubas, hope you know that the British met us fighting wars involving hundreds of thousands of men, do you think the great leaders of those times did not know their leaders or King?
The Basorun of Oyo was far far superior to the Ooni talkless of the Alaafin himself, Awolowo was a good and great man for the Yorubas, the elevation of the Ooni was one of the bad things he did.
As per Tinubu, they can make him whatever they want, all I want is good governance for the SW, the Obas are no longer relevant to modern day leadership, their style is too feudal for my liking in Nigeria.

Katsumoto:

The fact that you can only mention Ife as the only Yoruba town settlement lends credence to many unhabited places in Yorubaland. You can not compare 19th century Yorubaland with 11th century Yorubaland. There is a huge difference. If yoruba people were settling in NEW towns in the 19th century, why is it so difficult to accept that Oduduwa's descendants settled in new towns in the 12th/13th/14th/15th/16th/17th centuries?

The onus is on you to prove that there were established communities in ALL 16 kingdoms founded by Oduduwa's descendants. As far as oral traditions and evidential history is concerned, Ife was the first organised town. This however, doesn't preclude the presence of people in other parts of Yorubaland. We know Ife people settled in Lagos, Ogun, Oyo, Owu, Ijesa, Ugbo (Ilaje), etc.

i mentioned ife and ijebu.

of course that doesnt in any way imply it was limited to those two towns only.

the onus isnt on anyone to prove anything.

if you have links to your assertions, then let's have them.

in the 13th-17th centuries, ife already had a thriving culture . Culture is not static, and for it to have reached such a high level of recognition, there would have been supporting towns which buttressed the ife one. Not a wilderness- much better to dispute the sizes of adjacent areas.

Am still trying to figure-out how we can keep both conversations (Asiwaju matter and the Historical Oni Vs. Alaafin) going without muddling-up our "Train of Thoughts"!
Am loving the discourse and l thank all that are contributing; Wizardofoz, Kusamoto, Hercules07, naijababe, typia, OAM4J, et all.


Let me wade-in a little.
I am with the group that says we cannot judge and therefore "select" someone as Asiwaju of Yoruba based only on their "Political Brinksmanship"!
Politics itself as played in Nigeria, is a dirty game and the "dirtier you can play", the more successful you could get!

Thus, one would not be far-off the point to conclude that the seemingly successful politicians (in Nigeria's political space and standard) are people with very dirty character! Just name them; Saraki, Adedibu, Nzeribe, e.t.c

I will personally like someone with a Strong moral character, who can inspire our Youths to greatness
I would like someone whose life history, trajectory of academic pedigree, eloquence, ability to build bridges, Honesty, (as against a treasury looter or someone who came into office with one million and left the same office, 4yrs later, with $10Billion!), leadership ability that transpires into the development of their state or constituency, calmness of spirit, e.t.c such that at any point in time, he will "command" the respect of Non-Yorubas, by his sheer personality as against the use of force or coercion!

You will all agree that the choice of personality will reflect on the way and kind of respect Yorubas in general, will be accorded.
For example, till today, the kind of respect everyone has for Nelson Mandela, still rubs-off on all South Africans, till date, in the wider world.

Question therefore is: Does Bola Tinubu or Segun Obasanjo fit into the above criterion?