Martinez39s:
I have no pain. If like every shallow believer you insist that I have pains or trauma that I'm dealing with (which probably influenced my post), then I leave you to your presumptions.

On a closing note, feeling that God is real doesn't make him real. Having any feelings about God doesn't make him real. Thinking or talking about God doesn't make him real; many people think and talk about fictitious characters a lot, but it doesn't make them real. Understand this first, then communicate it to your son. I hope the family intelligence won't struggle to understand this in future.

Good night.

You will heal.

LordReed:


Except the only things we have seen to be capable of such imagination are minds situated in human bodies. No evidence is available to show otherwise. If there is a mind behind the universe where is it located and how can we know it?

How do u dream and see yourself doing stuff

And maybe later the dream comes to pass

flamingREED:
That was an intellectual knock out by the Christian boy. Also inform him that there's a gene that makes us seek God. It's called the God-gene.

SMH.

LordReed:


It is of note that the universe doesn't much care if you have a mind or not. The universe was here and existing before anything resembling a mind was around to see it. Your fantasy about a god in control is nothing but a comforting blanket for your mind. You have no control over the universe so you imagine a being, an other that has control. There are certain I would ask you to produce as evidence but I know you will deflect it to this other because it is nothing but a construct in your mind.

As pa, the padi of the universe na.
Whether they universe cares or not, how e take concern me. If the universe like make e get heart.

I have stated the obvious which only a fool can deny. The universe is an intelligent design, meaning it has a designer. One who stops when it achieves a purposes.

Okay according to you, the universe is soo mindless, yet it doesn't consistently repeat the same actions that brought about the so called created and evolution.

I mean I would love to see human evolve from the dirt, seas, or pigs, like I see trees grow out of the ground. I mean it is just a simple mindless system that goes on forever, right?

Who knows 20million years from now, pigs will be lecturing, (P.S not saying they don't currently)

Bluezy13:


Stop hiding under you kid's intelligence, my friend.

If the universe came into being through a big bang, why hasn't it happened again? Is there no intellectual and imaginative process to the universe in it's orderly and well patterned existence?

Tetehjewels:


You seem angry at a lot of things but certainly my Son or his little argument cannot be one of the things that has you all blowing hot.

First of all where in my OP did I remotely hint at my son winning the argument. I rather left it as anticlimactic.

I do know you are an atheist but then trying to indirectly bully my son through your comments with your choice of language is laughable and I am sure he would also laugh at this by the time I show him once he comes back from school.

I will type his response to you as he tells me because I want him to be the one to respond to you intellectually. That is how I got him to become smarter than those ahead of him and you certainly wouldn't be any different

Good luck with arguing with an 8yr old who knows how to hold his own any day of the week.

There are some people you don't waste spit arguing with. Just because they have a little change they are lulled into a false sense of bravado. I watched a youtube short video of elon musk recently... Even he did not come out to claim that God doesn't exist when asked in an interview e con be one local champion for nairaland. The fool has said in his heart that there is no God. That's what the bible said so go figure. As a parent, I was super impressed that you know your 7yr old and spend time with him enough to know his favorite cartoon. Pls keep up the good work. Do not let the foul spirit of this world sneak up and get hold of that fine young man. Cheers.

Tetehjewels:


Yet the source of the MIND cannot be explained and how the unhindered imaginations of the mind came to be. Surely it is neither brain controlled or limited by that otherwise it would only dwell on practical things we know and have seen as stored up in the memory banks of the brain.

Surely since the brain cannot cage the mind whereof does it originate?

Good question

Matthew 5:45 “He makes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust,”

That's a benevolent one.
Jesus in that chapter was talking about loving your enemies and people. So we see how he relates the love of God to those who are not his too. God blesses the just and unjust.

BlueAngel444:
to you na

He probably is benevolent to His own children

Bluezy13:

In a quick attempt to render invectives you ended up accusing me of writing "Atheism is belief in unbelief"; whereas I actually wrote "Atheism is a belief in unbelieve".
Your inability to decifer the difference between "belief" and "believe" subjected you to the "amazing confusion" as you rightly put it.
Perhaps you should consult your 8 years old son..., Don't you think

Why do religious people always do this to themselves !!

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.."

Una see this Wisdom na only God dey give people.

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

peacettw:
You spoilt the whole tale by beginning with a rather insipid monologue on how super smart your son is.

I see nothing fantastic in the discussion between the duo. Your 'supersmart' son should provide a more superior reason as to the reason God exist. Basing the entire premise of God on just feelings is a weak argument at best.

Again, it is very important that we all learn to respect each others religion or lack of it. Being an atheist doesn't make one any less of a human being. Infact, I like to believe that being neutral in these matters is truly the best form of living- free of prejudice and righteous anger.

My thoughts

The son spoke stupidly, but his father was proud of him since they share the same sentiment. Anyway, like father, like son.

I didn't want to bring this in but...

To those who don't believe in a God.

Do you believe(that it exists and is real, thereby acknowledging its existence) in the spiritual, in Juju, voodoo?

ogelekpomgam:

Who are you to think you exist, while God doesn't?..you are playing with your life by believing mere deceitful theory.See,why is it that the Almighty God is being denied of existence?..If you don't believe in spiritual realm,abeg come my villa find some people wahala..dem go knack you akpako, your sense go readjust.

sammysmiles:
According to Oxford scientists, who claims God doesn't exist..... humans have barely explored 2% of the world's constituents... So humans are yet to discover about 98% of the earth constitutents... So God can't fit into the 98%? You don't know a whole 98% of jxt the earth, talk more of other planetory bodies and the solar system in general and you said God doesn't exist? How were you able to come to the conclusion when billions of people believe in his existence? Probably those billions of people are jxt hallucinating right?

its called mass delusion, billions of people believing in something doesn't make it real, money is an illusion but the entire world believes that it's real and that gives it's functionality a feel of realness but decorated paper will always be fundamentally decorated paper no matter how hard you try to spin it.

StJohnofChrist:
An oyster desires, to live, to feed, hence to remain alive.
How do you know there's a mind?
Science says so.

I'm not conflating both.
Science also says a brain is not required for a mind to exist, although science is not sure of these claims but as at this time. There isn't an agreement in the Science community of this.


What higher cognitive functions though if I may ask.

A dolphin and a man have brains.
A Jellyfish and an Oyster don't.

What higher cognitive functions does a dolphin have that you can say is as a result of having a mind and a brain which the latter don't.
And please don't even mention their ability to communicate.

Yes I know know because of science. You know oysters have a mind how? How do you know they have desires?

Please post reference to the science that says brains aren't necessary for minds.

Having a sense of self is one the key observations of mind capable living things.

Tetehjewels:
My Son is super smart and at 8 has already been given double promotion twice in school. The 1st one he got was in the 2nd term of that year and he was only able to join the new class in their 3rd term yet he still came first and the school thought it necessary to move him again. So he is now in a class with kids 3yrs older than he is and already besting them too.

We are a very God loving family and even though I have never sat my son down to talk to him about God, I do ensure he goes to Church with me and joins me in my daily morning devotions. I do notice that he has an extremely inquisitive mind and would rather watch educational channels on DStv than cartoons especially since they stopped showing his best cartoon "Goku"

So we have this neighbour who is from Greece. His 7 yr old son and my son can be considered best of friends and they visit each other at will. So on this day he came to visit and while they were hanging out I suddenly heard them arguing from his room. Normally their arguments would be over a video game or something else but this one was interesting. They were arguing about God!

I stood by the door and listened. Apparently that day revealed to me that my neighbour is an atheist but I never knew and he has been indoctrinating his 7yr old son along those lines because I clearly heard the boy say to my Son, "God does not exist, he is just a story"

So here is the convo

Him: God is not real, He does not exist, He is just a story

My Son: Ethan what did you say?

Him: God is not real, He is just like Santa who also isn't real

My Son: How do you know he isn't real?

Him: Well my dad said he isn't real because he just isn't. Have you seen him?

My Son: So your dad says God isn't real because he hasn't seen him? So something isn't real because you can't see it? But what about feeling Him?

Him: Feelings are not something we can um um fully determine because they can be misleading

My Son: How can you say Feelings are misleading, you are my friend right? (He goes yeah?) So how are you sure you are my friend if your feelings can be misleading. Can you say your feelings misled you into being my friend?

Him: No that's not what I was trying to say

My Son cuts him off with a sharp tone: So if your feelings did not mislead you into being my friend how then do feelings mislead you?

Him: Have you felt God before?

My Son: No but I do know that I think about him a lot

Him: umm umm but How would you possibly be thinking about something that does not exist

My Son: Exactly Ethan!

At this point I step into the room and cheerfully say Okay guys playtime is over (because I needed to stop the argument and get my Son to study by asking his friend to go home)

However his final comment "Exactly Ethan" resonated with me and made me think that comment was actually directed at Ethan's dad and not Ethan because apparently he had been talking about the non existence of God to his Son A LOT!

So how do you constantly talk or think about Something or Someone that doesn't exist?

Man grows and outgrows his concept of God. God is I Am that I Am. Please tell me, what's your name in full sentence? If you get the concept dear ones, you've found the God of scripture. The only true God.

StJohnofChrist:
I didn't want to bring this in but...

To those who don't believe in a God.

Do you believe(that it exists and is real, thereby acknowledging its existence) in the spiritual, in Juju, voodoo?

Yes.its like believing that God exists and not believing that the devil does exist..

Tetehjewels:


You will heal from whatever pain you are struggling with

I know some of the responses are shocking.... I know... this is Nairaland.

But think again, the scales are falling off the eyes of African youths. An improvement in African economy might be the death knell to these religions as you know them.

If I might suggest, seek spirituality and quit religion. Use Christianity as the means to explore your inner energies. Be objective enough to sieve out the rubbish that don't align with common sense and natural laws.
Let the Jewish, the Muslim, ye Buddhists, the traditionalist seek his spirituality his way..... these are are all means to experiencing our inner energies and truly none is superior.

Love one another, help the poor, best way to recieve is to give, do not offend others, do not cheat or kill or harm another. These are natural laws not tied to any religion and our consciences align on these across human existence.

Organised religion has ambiguities all over it that you cannot explain it away without sounding stupid

BlueAngel444:

As pa, the padi of the universe na.
Whether they universe cares or not, how e take concern me. If the universe like make e get heart.

I have stated the obvious which only a fool can deny. The universe is an intelligent design, meaning it has a designer. One who stops when it achieves a purposes.

Okay according to you, the universe is soo mindless, yet it doesn't consistently repeat the same actions that brought about the so called created and evolution.

I mean I would love to see human evolve from the dirt, seas, or pigs, like I see trees grow out of the ground. I mean it is just a simple mindless system that goes on forever, right?

Who knows 20million years from now, pigs will be lecturing, (P.S not saying they don't currently)

Why do you think the only processes the universe has going on must repeat? And even if it does repeat your lifetime may be too small to witness a repeat.

You are asking for a magic trick. Not anything I have said or alluded to.

We don't know what kind of creatures will have evolved in 20 million years unfortunately we won't be around to see it. That is the nature of the universe.

StJohnofChrist:
Matthew 5:45 “He makes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust,”

That's a benevolent one.
Jesus in that chapter was talking about loving your enemies and people. So we see how he relates the love of God to those who are not his too. God blesses the just and unjust.

God already made the sun to rise and set na

So when God sends a drought, has He stopped being benevolent or when in the "last days" the sun doesn't give it's light. Has someone taken His throne and over threw Him


God loves because He is love. And because of that He destroys the wicked and saves the good. Because He is good. He gives the wicked opportunity to repent, because He is merciful. But He will still destroy evil, because He is just and judge of all.

So whether the sun rises or rain falls, whether the wicked wake up tomorrow or He falls, how does that change God. The wicked will still perish, simple.

ratiken:


If this is your true definition of atheism, then neither you nor your son is anywhere near smart. You have some more learning to do.

Atheism is too diversified to fit into a simple spectrum. Most atheist agree that there is a force behind creation and everything surrounding our existence but do not agree with the narrative or attempts by religious organisations to fit or describe that force to the bible or Koran definition of God.

As a Christian, you really and truly believe that the Christian God will throw all non-christians to hell even when they had no role to play in being born into non-christian homes.... and that means all moslems, buddhist, traditionalists etc and even our African fore fathers who died before Christianity came

How does this make sense to any sane mind?

It just don’t make sense. How gullible can people get. I was gonna school him on this topic but i can see you and a lot more people have done just that already. But religion, being what it is, an opium which cannot be sedated except the user is willing to see things objectively has done its damage already.

ogelekpomgam:

Yes.its like believing that God exists and not believing that the devil does exist..

I think concepts of god vs the devil are the first iteration of protagonist vs antagonist

Built up this flawed perspective that life is black and white meanwhile the gray between both is vast and ignored

Mom007:

There are some people you don't waste spit arguing with. Just because they have a little change they are lulled into a false sense of bravado. I watched a youtube short video of elon musk recently... Even he did not come out to claim that God doesn't exist when asked in an interview e con be one local champion for nairaland. The fool has said in his heart that there is no God. That's what the bible said so go figure. As a parent, I was super impressed that you know your 7yr old and spend time with him enough to know his favorite cartoon. Pls keep up the good work. Do not let the foul spirit of this world sneak up and get hold of that fine young man. Cheers.

We are actually singing "Love runs deeper than words" now. The song by Lloyiso for Disney Channel. He loves that song like crazy and sings it word for word. Now I am addicted to it too

StJohnofChrist:
Good.
The Biblical answer is that nobody created God. He is by nature the eternal God. He was not created at all. He always was, is, and always will be. He did not work Himself up into a position to be God neither did He inherit the position from His parents, for He had no parents-no mother, no father. He has no beginning and will have no end. The fact that God is eternal is stressed in the Bible.
He is un caused.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_289.cfm

Consequently one must choice between an infinite personal God who has always existed or lifeless impersonal matter.

then one must assume that something material has existed from all eternity. This material would have come about without a cause. Therefore our choice is between an intelligent being who is self-existent and lifeless matter


This is from the link you put, I like that the author is objective enough to entertain the other side of the argument but he never gave a valid reason as to why he picked God over lifeless matter. He only mentioned the bible and implied that it is better a personal God than impersonal matter. Again the latter is playing on emotions rather than facts

But what if people don't mind it being impersonal matter. A poster above, I think havertz10 said something about entropy which really made sense.

About the bible, is there anyway else you can prove or explain this outside the bible? Cos the Bible is not objective

OK this should challenge you to help your son know God better.

Tetehjewels:


You can consider the brain as a conduit for the mind but not a holder of the mind as it were and this is why once the conduit dies the channel closes but still remains open elsewhere.

The level of creativity of an individual is only limited by the scope of his mind which we can chose to leave the channel open or block it off due to doubt. Notice the use of the word CREATIVITY? Doesn't it remind you of another word that sounds like it and with similar spelling? �

If via our creativity fueled by our mind we are able to CREATE do you not think A MIND fueled the creativity behind creation?

In your learned oppinion...what is the difference between the brain and the mind?....

Tetehjewels:


I do not need to engage in a so called "intellectual banter" with anyone especially since I can do better by taking advantage of that person's penchant to argue and better my son through that by allowing him to think his own thoughts and state his own responses.

My Son is a chip off the old block and this means he takes after me when it comes to being smart.

It's not everyday one finds a willing human guinea pig so I may as well allow my Son utilize this opportunity.

He just got back from school by the way

oga go and sit down jor... Just pray make your smart son no go turn gay tomorrow


If he is smart like you claim, at certain age he will stop going to church, I won't tell you why, he will tell you himself... I also believe in God but don't praise your child too much, he is just a boy that is very vulnerable to deception or manipulations so better calm down...

Yankee101:
There's nothing like a 7 year old atheist
A 7 year old is a mirror, reflecting the nearest opinions around him

All humans are born Atheist..

Until some religious nut jobs gets ahold of them..

coolclarke:
OK this should challenge you to help your son know God better.

It should challenge him to brainwash his son better..

LordReed:


Note that you are the one bringing up evolution and Big bang not me.

Yes, I think all things arise from physical processes that are the result of the 4 fundamental forces of the universe interacting with energy to produce very effects. No I don't believe an intelligence is behind it because these interactions can be seen functioning without the presence of any mind. These processes are built on or preceeded by other processes going back till where our capabilities to investigate are exhausted. If you posit there is a mind you need to answer how you know this mind exists and how others can know it.

and how do you know it doesn't exist?... I think you should start from there....

safarigirl:
LOL

I'm just concerned that you people have so heavily indoctrinated kids that you are coming here to brag about them arguing over something they barely have their own ideas of.


Basically, both your son and the atheist Greek boy are parroting whatever narratives they have been fed by their parents, not even things they have studied and have a proper understanding of.

They are kids, their ideas are not even theirs.

This thread is just weird

This is it!!
Thank you for this.

No one wins in Religion or belief wars


Only the Dead knows "wassup".

By the way, I missed your thread on Film Reviews.

LordReed:


Why do you think the only processes the universe has going on must repeat? And even if it does repeat your lifetime may be too small to witness a repeat.

You are asking for a magic trick. Not anything I have said or alluded to.

We don't know what kind of creatures will have evolved in 20 million years unfortunately we won't be around to see it. That is the nature of the universe.

so cute and so amusing. Yet in the generational record of men, there is no such record.

You could also say there was never such obversation. Besides I never asked u for magic nor so I care for tricks, but if you do allocate such existence of a mindless universe as a trick, I may as well agree with.

Lol, being around is not where all this nonsense came from. But the obvious lack of evidence, trace to support this mindless theories.


But it's not the first time men have made fatansies theories, and call it a possible way of looking at the world. With the obvious aim of overlooking the one thing they fear, the possibility of being punished for fvcking the earth up.


Like whether God exists or not shouldn't bother anybody, except there is something worth being afraid of.


Here is the fear, if the universe has a way to punish anyone for all they have done wrong. But that's absurd isn't it. It's not possible.


Wait, do the same fools who disbelieve in God's existence also believe in the existence of higher forms of intelligence or extraterrestrials. Or do we believe that some how in the vast universe we are the only intelligent life form that exists.

Lol, so we are the best evolution could cook up. Isn't that so sad