FERNANDEZISBACK:

I see..but does that change the fact that they don't exist?

no ofnce, but only a fool say that. Everything around you is an evidence of God. You yourself is an evidence of God. Perfectly created were you. You don't see your brain but it exist. God might have not been speaking to much doing our time now but he certainly exist.
The way the leafs dances with the help of the wind shows there is a designer of this all.

ifiokjohn:
Jesus Is a messenger of GOD but not a prophet. I think you should read the book of Revelation to gain more insight. To be able to differentiate the difference between prophets.

Jesus didn't just exist before Abraham. He was the Foundation on which all things were built. Reason the Bible explicitly called him the Firstborn of GOD creation.

By the way if Jesus were a prophet, don't you think he would have said the people that called him prophet were right.
Remember when he asked his disciples, "Who do people say I am" and they all gave varying answers like 'A prophet, Elijah etc' but yet to him none of them got it. I would have expected it true he was jus a prophet he would have said Yes, they're right, I'm a prophet of GOD. But then he asked his disciples, but who do you say I am? I'm sure many of them would have said Prophet but still he saw that as wrong but immediately Simon Peter spoke and said "You're the Christ, the Son of the living GOD" his reply to Simon was, 'flesh and blood have not revealed this to you but my Father in heaven'.
See , what I'm saying is that if Jesus was just a prophet, before Simon Peter had even talked he would have said to others disciples that called him a prophet that they were right, he is nothing but a prophet of GOD and he didn't.

By the way, I don't think a Prophet can claim to raise the dead at the regeneration but in the Bible you have Christ claiming to raise the dead at the regeneration. An Act only reservedfor God. The dead is like billions and billions of people. It not one or two people that a prophet bring to life some times but billions of people. How can 'just a prophet' do that?

Obviously you missed this part of my post:

According to what God told Moses, Jesus is also a prophet:

AND

Apostle Peter confirmed that the verse above is pointing to Jesus of Nazareth:

I'm not Moses or Peter and neither am i God who uttered the statement in the Bible book of Deuteronomy 18:18-19

I only quoted what i found written in God's word!

MaxInDHouse:

Obviously you missed this part of my post:



I'm not Moses or Peter and neither am i God who uttered the statement in the Bible book of Deuteronomy 18:18-19

I only quoted what i found written in God's word!

is that so? Well I don't see him as such. The kind of statements Jesus made no prophet can boldly make such statements.

FERNANDEZISBACK:

I see..but does that change the fact that they don't exist?

but at least you understand the difference between GOD, Jesus and the Holy Spirit?

ifiokjohn:
but at least you understand the difference between GOD, Jesus and the Holy Spirit?

Yeah thanks for the explanation..

ifiokjohn:
no ofnce, but only a fool say that. Everything around you is an evidence of God. You yourself is an evidence of God. Perfectly created were you. You don't see your brain but it exist. God might have not been speaking to much doing our time now but he certainly exist.
The way the leafs dances with the help of the wind shows there is a designer of this all.

It's ok.. and how does my existence prove that there is God?

thorpido:
AntiChristian can help us interprete the Scripture.

Since you call me of cos i will help you interpret.

ifiokjohn:
Have been reading the Bible and I came across psalm110 where King David made Reference to Two Lords. He said and I quote 'The LORD said to My Lord , sit thou at my hand until I make thing enemies thy footstool'. I went through what that means.
I got to know that in the Original hebrew of the psalm, The first "LORD"translate the Hebrew word Yahweh. GOD'S Convenant name. The second "Lord" translate the Hebrew word " ADONAI. A Title usually given to Yahweh in the old testament.

Here you made the first mistake in red "Adoni" is different from "Adonai" though both comes the same root word they are pronounced differently. The verse is "Yahweh said to my "Adoni" not Adonai as you claim. And even if you check https://biblehub.com/psalms/110-1.htm "to my Lord" is translated from "Ladoni". And more so Lord and lord are created by the translators according to whatever they wish!

"Adoni" is used for human masters and lords and never God. Adoni was used in 195 times in the Old testament and it means a superior who is human and occasionally angelic, created beings but not God.
NB: "Adon" is the root word, "Adoni" is what is used for superior created beings like humans and angels (never for God) and "Adonai" is used for God and occasionally for elevated humans.

If you need the list of where "Adoni" used here for Jesus is used for human masters/lords I will write them for you.

Now I'm asking this to understand who Jesus really is?. I remember Jesus asked the scribes this question. *if the Messiah is David's Son why then did David Call him Lord?" I'm still curious and want to know.

David probably call Jesus lord as a form of respect. Jesus said of John the Baptist in Matthew 11:11 “Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist”. This is also for respect.

Because if that verse is true, it means Jesus is not just a prophet as our Muslim brothers will want us to believe.

I will like the Muslims to also contribute in this. Who is this Jesus that even a King Calls him "Lord". Not just Lord as in Lord. But a title that was reserve and used for Yahweh in the old testament. That is ADONAI.

Is this Jesus truly more than just a prophet?

Dear Muslims I need your reply to that verse and Jesus Question to the Scribes.

We Muslims believe Jesus to be a Prophet and not God or one of trinity!

1. Jesus prayed many times sometimes even putting his head on the ground to God.
2. Jesus called God his Lord. Do Lords have Lord?
3. Jesus said "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of Israel". This means he was a messenger as Muslims claim.

JESUS: A SERVANT OF ALLAH.

Matthew 23:8
‘But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your master, even Jesus, and all ye are brethren.”

Here it is clearly proved that Jesus was servant of Allah, and that there is only One Master and He is Allah. In the Arabic version of the Bible this verse has been translated so that Jesus is meant to be the master whereas the English rendering is nearer the original sense.

Matthew 23:9
“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father which is in heaven.”

From this you will note that fatherhood and sonship is meant to be the relationship between the Lord and His servants: it is meant in a general sense and not specifically for Jesus.

Matthew 24:36
“But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”

Mark 13:32
But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

This is a definite proof that the Final Hour is unknown to any but Allah, thus Jesus’ knowledge is imperfect like all other men; Allah Alone is All-Knowing, Omniscient.

Matthew 26:39
“And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face and prayed, saying, ‘O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou wilt.’ “

We note here that the person speaking is unaware of Allah’s Will and realizes the fact that he is a servant of Allah. He (Allah) Alone can cause the change.

JESUS IS A SERVANT OF ALLAH

1. Paul allegedly said in Romans 6:16:
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

This means if we obey God then we are God's slaves!

2. Paul continues later in Romans 6:22:
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

Here we see that those who have been set free from sins become slaves of God!

3. Luke also said in Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.

Here we see Jesus relegated to being a servant of God by Luke.

Allah says in the Qur'an that Jesus called himself a slave of Allah.
"He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;"
Qur'an 19:30

So we see Jesus, righteous people are slaves/servants of Allah/God from the Bible and Qur'an!

To you AntiChristian, do you see Jesus Christ as your Messiah, Spirit and word of God as read in Quran 3:45 and Quran 4:171 ?

ifiokjohn:


is that so? Well I don't see him as such. The kind of statements Jesus made no prophet can boldly make such statements.

Church traditions may differ and interpretation may lead to endless arguments but God's word should be our guide.
God told the Israelites that He (God) will send a prophet like Moses {Deuteronomy 18:18} and warned that whoever refuse to accept the words He (God) will put in the mouth of that prophet will be condemned! Deuteronomy 18:19; John 3:17-18

So when Jesus came he expected his listeners to use their discernment to figure out that even though he is the prophet spoken of in the Bible book of Deuteronomy 18:15-19} he is much more than just a prophet.
But that's how God referred to him in that book.

Moses was a prophet, deliverer and God at the same time! Exodus 7:1
And Jesus is the same but the difference here is that while Moses is one of us {Adam's blood) Jesus is not one of us {John 8:23} because his origin is from long time ago before the creation of this planet. John 8:58; Colossians 1:15-16

RightChannel:
To you AntiChristian, do you see Jesus Christ as your Messiah, Spirit and word of God as read in Quran 3:45 and Quran 4:171 ?

1. Did the Qur'an tell us to see Jesus as OUR Messiah? No! Even Jesus said i am not sent but to the lost sheep of the children of Israel.

2. Jesus is word of Allah as well as everything! Even you will agree that the Qur'an is the word of Allah! But Qur'an is not Jesus!

3. Jesus is the Spirit of Allah, yes! Adam was only a mould that was made alive by the spirit of Allah! Technically we are all spirits of Allah cos our Spirit/Soul comes from Him.

MaxInDHouse:


Church traditions may differ and interpretation may lead to endless arguments but God's word should be our guide.
God told the Israelites that He (God) will send a prophet like Moses {Deuteronomy 18:18} and warned that whoever refuse to accept the words He (God) will put in the mouth of that prophet will be condemned! Deuteronomy 18:19; John 3:17-18

So when Jesus came he expected his listeners to use their discernment to figure out that even though he is the prophet spoken of in the Bible book of Deuteronomy 18:15-19} he is much more than just a prophet.
But that's how God referred to him in that book.

Moses was a prophet, deliverer and God at the same time! Exodus 7:1
And Jesus is the same but the difference here is that while Moses is one of us {Adam's blood) Jesus is not one of us {John 8:23} because his origin is from long time ago before the creation of this planet. John 8:58; Colossians 1:15-16

then if so, how is Jesus like Moses since Jesus origin is from beginning before creation?then he is defined not like Moses.
By the way, how is Moses a God?I will like to understand. To be I presume Jesus is a God because of Hebrew that said when God brought his first born into the world, he said all the Angels should worship him. Secondly, because he was given Power, honour and authority over everything in heaven, on the earth and under the earth. But Moses wasn't given that. Was he?

ifiokjohn:
then if so, how is Jesus like Moses since Jesus origin is from beginning before creation?then he is defined not like Moses.
By the way, how is Moses a God?I will like to understand. To be I presume Jesus is a God because of Hebrew that said when God brought his first born into the world, he said all the Angels should worship him. Secondly, because he was given Power, honour and authority over everything in heaven, on the earth and under the earth. But Moses wasn't given that. Was he?

The topic of your thread says:

"Help!! I'm Confused"

So if truly you want to be helped then you need to calmly consider what is WRITTEN in the scriptures before thinking about the dogmas misinformed Churchgoers are teaching their people.
Remember we must not add or subtract from what is found WRITTEN in God's word! Revelations 22:18-19

It's God himself that made Moses a God {Exodus 7:1} so i believe that if God Himself could refer to someone as "God" we don't need to question Him because He knows far better than we do! Isaiah 55:8-9

AntiChristian:


1. Did the Qur'an tell us to see Jesus as OUR Messiah? No! Even Jesus said i am not sent but to the lost sheep of the children of Israel.

Is the author of Quran so confused to have called him Messiah since you are knowledgeable than the writer of your quran?

Quran 3:45

And (remember) when the angels said: "Mary, God gives you the glad tidings of a Word from Him, to be called the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary; highly honored in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those near-stationed to God

AntiChristian:


2. Jesus is word of Allah as well as everything! Even you will agree that the Qur'an is the word of Allah! But Qur'an is not Jesus!

Aside Jesus Christ that was called the Messiah, THE SPIRIT OF GOD and WORD OF GOD, Name any other person or thing that has these three
Special descriptions (Messiah, Word of God and Spirit of God)

AntiChristian:


3. Jesus is the Spirit of Allah, yes! Adam was only a mould that was made alive by the spirit of Allah! Technically we are all spirits of Allah cos our Spirit/Soul comes from Him.

Good you said Adam was mould the same way Muhammad was mould, but the Quran describes Jesus to be a ‘Spirit’ proceeding from God, he was not mould like Muhammad and Adam or Muhammad was born from a virgin's womb?

We breathed into her (Mary) from My Spirit."... Quran 21:91

"…a Spirit created by Him." Quran 4:171

We blew into (her womb) through Our angel." Quran 66:12

AntiChristian:


Since you call me of cos i will help you interpret.


Please do. Sorry I won't be able to reply like you do. I no know how una for this nairaland dey take divide and answer this questions once.


Here you made the first mistake in red "Adoni" is different from "Adonai" though both comes the same root word they are pronounced differently. The verse is "Yahweh said to my "Adoni" not Adonai as you claim. And even if you check https://biblehub.com/psalms/110-1.htm "to my Lord" is translated from "Ladoni". And more so Lord and lord are created by the translators according to whatever they wish!

Let's assume you correct here.

"Adoni" is used for human masters and lords and never God. Adoni was used in 195 times in the Old testament and it means a superior who is human and occasionally angelic, created beings but not God.


So you are saying that Jesus is the superior Human or prophet to king David right?
But it began the question, why Jesus. How come David never even called Samuel or Nathan or any of the prophet "my Adoni?"


NB: "Adon" is the root word, "Adoni" is what is used for superior created beings like humans and angels (never for God) and "Adonai" is used for God and occasionally for elevated humans.
Let assume you're correct. It's still beg the question, how can a King( infact the greatest king of isreal called Christ 'His Lord?" That Adoni as you said?
If you need the list of where "Adoni" used here for Jesus is used for human masters/lords I will write them for you.


no need. Someone already said it the same word that Sarah use to refer to Abraham. But we understand Sarah's use of the word. We all know the husband is superior or head of the wife. .. the question is how can Christ be head of David to the extend David called him Lord.




David probably call Jesus lord as a form of respect. Jesus said of John the Baptist in Matthew 11:11 “Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist”. This is also for respect.

Lol, saying that someone is probably the greatest of prophets is different with another one, a King for that matter calling someone he has never met or ever seen and someone that hasn't even been born... Lord.





We Muslims believe Jesus to be a Prophet and not God or one of trinity!


Oh ok. Now don't you Muslim believes it is GOD that will raise up the dead doing resurrection? How come Jesus Christ is claiming that he will raise up the dead doing Resurrection? Something reservedfor GOD.
No prophet can make that kind of bold statement. This is not raising one or two, this.is raising billions of people and that takes immense power. So why is "Just a project claiming he will do the resurrection?"





1. Jesus prayed many times sometimes even putting his head on the ground to God.

Definitely. Jesus did pray to GOD cause GOD is above him and is his head just like Christ is the head of the church.


2. Jesus called God his Lord. Do Lords have Lord?

Lol. God is above Jesus so it normal for Christ to call GOD his Lord. Christ have never claimed equality with GOD




3. Jesus said "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of Israel". This means he was a messenger as Muslims claim.


Lol. Yes he was a messenger but not a prophet. Angels are messengers too but are not prophet or are they?



JESUS: A SERVANT OF ALLAH.


Well Jesus is a messenger of GOD. A prince is also a servant to his Father the king so it's in that context I'm agreeing with you



Matthew 23:8
‘But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your master, even Jesus, and all ye are brethren.”


Yes Jesus is our Master.



Here it is clearly proved that Jesus was servant of Allah, and that there is only One Master and He is Allah. In the Arabic version of the Bible this verse has been translated so that Jesus is meant to be the master whereas the English rendering is nearer the original sense. Lol.



GOD is definitely the head of Christ. Meaning he is Christ Master. Christ have never claim equality with GOD

Matthew 23:9
“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father which is in heaven.”


GOD is Christ Father therefore he is also our Father

From this you will note that fatherhood and sonship is meant to be the relationship between the Lord and His servants: it is meant in a general sense and not specifically for Jesus.



Lol, really?... Let me ask you this. When Jesus asked his disciples... Who do people say I am? And the disciples gave varying answers including PROPHET. Why didn't he agree with his disciples and say , Yes those people are right. I'm a prophet.
Instead he asked his disciples but who do you say I am and the disciples also say prophet but Jesus didn't tell them they were right till Simon Peter spoke and said," you're the Christ. The son of the living GOD. And Jesus replied Flesh and blood have not spoken this to you but my father in heaven.

Now in this above, we can see the difference between Christ and the other Prophets. Abi is God baises to name Jesus as his son but leave the rest prophets as 'Just prophets'?





Matthew 24:36
“But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”

You forgot he also said he will be the one to raise the dead. Something reserves only for GOD.



Mark 13:32
But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

This is a definite proof that the Final Hour is unknown to any but Allah, thus Jesus’ knowledge is imperfect like all other men; Allah Alone is All-Knowing, Omniscient.



What about the one he said he is the resurrection and the life and he will resurrect the dead doing resurrection. An act reserved only for GOD


Matthew 26:39
“And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face and prayed, saying, ‘O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou wilt.’ “

He also thought us to pray by saying "Our Father, so say something else.
He also raise his hand to the heavens in prayers when he was raising up Lazarus...so say something else
Jesus have taken different postures for prayers. Infact, he has even lied down flat on the ground praying.. so what are you saying?





We note here that the person speaking is unaware of Allah’s Will and realizes the fact that he is a servant of Allah. He (Allah) Alone can cause the change.



We also note that the person speaking also claim tthat he will raise the dead from death doing resurrection an act only reserve for Christ .


JESUS IS A SERVANT OF ALLAH

1. Paul allegedly said in Romans 6:16:
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?


Now you can bring Paul lol.

This means if we obey God then we are God's slaves!


Certainly! But Christ isn't a slave. There is a difference.



2. Paul continues later in Romans 6:22:
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

Really! So you can quote Paul. If I bring another Paul's quote hope you will accept it without calling Paul the devil?





Here we see that those who have been set free from sins become slaves of God!

3. Luke also said in Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.

Here we see Jesus relegated to being a servant of God by Luke.


In Hebrew 1:6, it says .. and when he brought up his Firstborn unto the world ... He said "LET ALL THE ANGELS WORSHIP HIM". THATS CHRIST. GOD IS SAYING ALL THE ANGELS SHOULD WORSHIP HIM.
So why don't you believe this one too.
I know now you will tell me it's Paul deceit lol.



Allah says in the Qur'an that Jesus called himself a slave of Allah.
"He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;"
Qur'an 19:30

So we see Jesus, righteous people are slaves/servants of Allah/God from the Bible and Qur'an!

Jesus said "FATHER give me the Glory I share with you before the world began. Show me Wich Prophet have such pre existence.

Jesus said "He Is the Resurrection and he will raise the dead doing resurrection. An act reserved only for God.

Thomas called Jesus "His Lord and his God" and Jesus failed to rebuke him but accepted it...why?

Hebrew1:6 said that GOD ordered the angels to worship his first born (Christ) but you refused to say that.

Micah 5:2. GOD said that Jesus origin is from everlasting but you refused to believe that.

Colossians. Called him the Firstborn of all creation. The image of the invisible GOD but you refused to believe that.

Jesus said he is the way the truth and life when there was another prophet there (John the Baptist).

John the Baptist said Christ is higher than him because he came before him when we all know John was born months before Christ. But even John said he can't even untie the laces of Christ. ( Same person you just said Jesus called the greatest prophet) but yet the same person is saying Christ is above him.

You forgot 1john1 that says "In the beginning was the word and the word was with GOD and the word was GOD".

Have you forgotten Daniel's prophecies about Christ?


You also forgot Hebrew 1:3 that says that Christ sat down of the right hand of his Majesty.


From all have listed, how can such a man be just a prophet? Reason na. Meaning of the statements Jesus made, no prophet will ever make it. For instance the statement of raising the dead doing the last day.


By the way have not brought the book of Revelation. I'm just using this one first. We will go there and there you will see who the Lamb of God truly is.

MaxInDHouse:


The topic of your thread says:

"Help!! I'm Confused"

So if truly you want to be helped then you need to calmly consider what is WRITTEN in the scriptures before thinking about the dogmas misinformed Churchgoers are teaching their people.
Remember we must not add or subtract from what is found WRITTEN in God's word! Revelations 22:18-19

It's God himself that made Moses a God {Exodus 7:1} so i believe that if God Himself could refer to someone as "God" we don't need to question Him because He knows far better than we do! Isaiah 55:8-9

you're truly the one that doesn't even understand what you're saying.
God made Moses a God to Aaron and Aaron Moses prophet. There is a difference in this case.
But in Jesus case, in Hebrew God rightly said all the Angels should worship him.
In the book of Revelation. We see that all the creaturesin heaven praised and worship the Lamb ( Christ) so you see the difference?

FERNANDEZISBACK:

It's ok.. and how does my existence prove that there is God?

because without that God you will never exist.
When GOD created Man he spoke to himself. So our lives is in God. It is God that gives us life.
When God created the plant, he spoke to the Earth
When he created the fish he spoke to the water ... If a fish leaves the water it dies.
If we leaves God we die.
See?


Now, think of your self. How prfectly you were made. Well made. Do you think it by chance that you have eyes, nose, mouth, a brain. Do you think it by chance we have black, white, asains etc?
Do you think it by chance the universe work together in perfection?

ifiokjohn:
because without that God you will never exist.
When GOD created Man he spoke to himself. So our lives is in God. It is God that gives us life.
When God created the plant, he spoke to the Earth
When he created the fish he spoke to the water ... If a fish leaves the water it dies.
If we leaves God we die.
See?


Now, think of your self. How prfectly you were made. Well made. Do you think it by chance that you have eyes, nose, mouth, a brain. Do you think it by chance we have black, white, asains etc?
Do you think it by chance the universe work together in perfection?

And who says that everything works together in perfection?

FERNANDEZISBACK:

And who says that everything works together in perfection?

everything works together in perfection. Everything in the universe. Except for man shall. But those ones na their freewill dey do them

AntiChristian:


1. Did the Qur'an tell us to see Jesus as OUR Messiah? No! Even Jesus said i am not sent but to the lost sheep of the children of Israel.

2. Jesus is word of Allah as well as everything! Even you will agree that the Qur'an is the word of Allah! But Qur'an is not Jesus!

3. Jesus is the Spirit of Allah, yes! Adam was only a mould that was made alive by the spirit of Allah! Technically we are all spirits of Allah cos our Spirit/Soul comes from Him.

Then why don't you believe God word where he told the angels to WORSHIP Christ in Hebrew 1:5.
Why don't you believe wen jesus explicitly said he shared glory with God before the world began
Why don't you ask a question why Jesus didn't rebuke Thomas for calling him his Lord.
Why don't you reason why Isaiah talks about Jesus which such Reverence.

Why don't you believe when Christ said all power and authority has been given to him meaning all things in heaven, earth and under it have been subjected to him. ?

ifiokjohn:
you're truly the one that doesn't even understand what you're saying.
God made Moses a God to Aaron and Aaron Moses prophet. There is a difference in this case.
But in Jesus case, in Hebrew God rightly said all the Angels should worship him.
In the book of Revelation. We see that all the creaturesin heaven praised and worship the Lamb ( Christ) so you see the difference?

"And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. KJV

Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. NIV

And the Lord said to Moses, “See, I make you as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet. RSV

Jehovah then said to Moses: “See, I have made you like God to Pharʹaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet. NWT

Pharaoh of Egypt was the greatest King of his time and God said he is making Moses as God to Pharaoh simply means Moses is given authority over all the Kings of the earth since he has authority over the greatest King back then.
For instance, imagine someone who can order the president of America, do you think the president of any country won't bow at the name of such a person?

This is very simple Sir.
It was later after his resurrection and ascension to heaven that many found out that Jesus is much more than a prophet, but based on what was written about him. He will be a prophet like Moses! Deuteronomy 18:18-19

I didn't write that Bible book, it's what God's word says!

ifiokjohn:
Then why don't you believe God word where he told the angels to WORSHIP Christ in Hebrew 1:5.

The author of Hebrew is unknown and sometimes ascribed to Paul. Jesus never met Paul. So how will Paul say such?

For to which of the angels did God ever say: “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father”? Or again: “I will be His Father, and He will be My Son”? Hebrew 1:5
So where is the Angels worshipping Christ here?

Why don't you believe wen jesus explicitly said he shared glory with God before the world began

How was the Glory shared and in what ration?

I am the LORD (YAHWEH); that is My name! I will not yield My glory to another or My praise to idols. Isaiah 42:8

Why don't you ask a question why Jesus didn't rebuke Thomas for calling him his Lord.

Humans and angels were also called lord in the Bible. The lord is not Yahweh.
God's representative are usually called God in the Bible. In Gen 16:7-13 Jacob wrestles with God. We know he fought an Angel not really God!

What some disciples believed about Jesus
[b]18One of them, named Cleopas, asked Him, “Are You the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in recent days?” 19“What things?” He asked. “The events involving Jesus of Nazareth,” they answered. “This man was a prophet, powerful in speech and action before God and all the people. 20Our chief priests and rulers delivered Him up to the sentence of death, and they crucified Him[/b]Luke 24:18-20

Why don't you reason why Isaiah talks about Jesus which such Reverence.[quote] Isaiah never mentioned the name Jesus. He mentioned Emmanuel and no one was called by that during Jesus time.

[quote]Why don't you believe when Christ said all power and authority has been given to him meaning all things in heaven, earth and under it have been subjected to him?

I don't believe this because:

1.that then means Yahweh and the Spirit would have no power anymore and then depend on Jesus.
2. Jesus was asked of the hour and he claimed no one knows except the Father. He specifically said he does not know.
3. Yahweh, our father in heaven would also be subjected to Jesus's authority!
4. I am the LORD (YAHWEH); that is My name! I will not yield My glory to another or My praise to idols. Isaiah 42:8

MaxInDHouse:


"And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. KJV

Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. NIV

And the Lord said to Moses, “See, I make you as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet. RSV

Jehovah then said to Moses: “See, I have made you like God to Pharʹaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet. NWT

Pharaoh of Egypt was the greatest King of his time and God said he is making Moses as God to Pharaoh simply means Moses is given authority over all the Kings of the earth since he has authority over the greatest King back then.
For instance, imagine someone who can order the president of America, do you think the president of any country won't bow at the name of such a person?

This is very simple Sir.
It was later after his resurrection and ascension to heaven that many found out that Jesus is much more than a prophet, but based on what was written about him. He will be a prophet like Moses! Deuteronomy 18:18-19

I didn't write that Bible book, it's what God's word says!

ok. But Moses was only a God to pharoah and to Aaron. It just like "for the main time " kind of thing.

ifiokjohn:

Ok. But Moses was only a God to pharoah and to Aaron. It just like "for the main time " kind of thing.

Yes! It was to be a temporary Godship that's why Moses died and never resurrected till today. Jesus Godship will last for a thousand years in which all the creatures in heaven and on earth must bow to Jesus' orders if they want to continue living. As for Satan, his demons, his human agents and all disobedient humans they will be exterminated before Jesus' reign ends! Luke 19:27

After the 1,000 years when Jesus has finished making all of us perfect he will hand over the Godship to the person who made him God over all. 1Corinthians 15:27-28

Please the word mistranslated to WORSHIP at Revelations regarding Jesus means OBEISANCE which connotes absolute obedience not WORSHIP. Jesus never taught us to worship him rather we are to worship the God who sent him, that is our father and God! John 20:17

AntiChristian:
The author of Hebrew is unknown and sometimes ascribed to Paul. Jesus never met Paul. So how will Paul say such?

For to which of the angels did God ever say: “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father”? Or again: “I will be His Father, and He will be My Son”? Hebrew 1:5
So where is the Angels worshipping Christ here?



How was the Glory shared and in what ration?

I am the LORD (YAHWEH); that is My name! I will not yield My glory to another or My praise to idols. Isaiah 42:8

Lol, ask Christ what he might be that. I didn't say it. The Christians didn't say it. Infact he said that twice.


Humans and angels were also called lord in the Bible. The lord is not Yahweh.
God's representative are usually called God in the Bible. In Gen 16:7-13 Jacob wrestles with God. We know he fought an Angel not really God!



What some disciples believed about Jesus
[b]18One of them, named Cleopas, asked Him, “Are You the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in recent days?” 19“What things?” He asked. “The events involving Jesus of Nazareth,” they answered. “This man was a prophet, powerful in speech and action before God and all the people. 20Our chief priests and rulers delivered Him up to the sentence of death, and they crucified Him[/b]Luke 24:18-20

lol. But you brought Paul's own words earlier. That's why I gave you hebrew.
Now you're saying it is Paul that said that. How can he say such. But you didn't know this when you were quoting same Paul in Conrintians etc.


By the way, that verse is in Hebrew 1:6. When he bringeth his Firstborn to the world he said and let all the Angels of God worship him.


I don't know how the glory was shared. That isn't my concern how it was shared. Wat concerns me is that he explicitly said that. And he claimed to have been before the world was created. Someone who the scribes even told he is not yet 40 yet how then can he have seen Abraham day?


The question is not bout him being called Lord. The question is that why would king David call his own grandson "Lord". It doesn't matter if it the angel kind of Lord or the leader kind of Lord.

Why will David called someone he hasn't even seen or met Lord?

I keep asking you this... How can a mere prophet claim to resurrect the dead doing the last day .
I'm sure in your Quran it is said that God will resurrect the dead...is that right?
Now Jesus claims he will resurrect the dead doing resurrection.... something only reserve for God.

Lol I hope this time around you will not blame Paul for this one above or that Jesus didn't say that. And there is no evidence of him saying that or that was put in his mouth by the early church fa..


After you finish answering this. We still have the book of Revelation to go too. That one go just finally end all this.
But let's deal with Jesus resurrection claim first. Lol


Can a mere Prophet claim this thing?

MaxInDHouse:

Yes! It was to be a temporary Godship that's why Moses died and never resurrected till today. Jesus Godship will last for a thousand years in which all the creatures in heaven and on earth must bow to Jesus' orders if they want to continue living. As for Satan, his demons, his human agents and all disobedient humans they will be exterminated before Jesus' reign ends! Luke 19:27

After the 1,000 years when Jesus has finished making all of us perfect he will hand over the Godship to the person who made him God over all. 1Corinthians 15:27-28

Please the word mistranslated to WORSHIP at Revelations regarding Jesus means OBEISANCE which connotes absolute obedience not WORSHIP. Jesus never taught us to worship him rather we are to worship the God who sent him, that is our father and God! John 20:17

lol. So you're saying the creatures in Revelation that we saw sang praises, honour and glory to the Lamb is not WORSHIP?
Ok let assume you're right.

By the virtue of GOD making Christ God.doesnt it mean he has given libety to people to worship Christ?

Secondly read Daniel7:13. It says hat all nations and language will serve him forever and ever meaning he will be a God to All nations forever. Directly and indirectly he will be Worshipped.
There is a reason Thomas called him his God and Jesus refused to rebuke.

Secondly when you pray to someone you worship that person weather you like it or not.
Jesus told his disciples to ask of him anything or ask anything in his name and that he will do.
Now for his disciples to ask something from him.... It has to be through prayers and when they pray you Christ , they automatically are worshipping him. You see?

ifiokjohn:
lol. So you're saying the creatures in Revelation that we saw sang praises, honour and glory to the Lamb is not WORSHIP?
Ok let assume you're right.
By the virtue of GOD making Christ God.doesnt it mean he has given libety to people to worship Christ?

During the time God made Moses a God does he deserves to be worshiped at all?
The answer is "NO!" But what about obedience? Well God dealt harshly with some Israelites simply because they challenged Moses's authority! Numbers 12:1-12

ifiokjohn:

Secondly read Daniel7:13. It says hat all nations and language will serve him forever and ever meaning he will be a God to All nations forever. Directly and indirectly he will be Worshipped.
There is a reason Thomas called him his God and Jesus refused to rebuke.

Thomas was a weak follower of Jesus so when Jesus knew that this faithful and obedient man needed to see some things before his faith could be strengthen Jesus put on the body with bruises to convince his weak friend that he (Jesus) is alive. But Thomas wasn't referring to Jesus as God, it was an exclamation out of amazement just as someone would see something unimaginable and scream:

"Oluwa o!"

"Ayélála!"


"My Lord and my God!" depending on what the person believes.

ifiokjohn:

Secondly when you pray to someone you worship that person weather you like it or not.
Jesus told his disciples to ask of him anything or ask anything in his name and that he will do.
Now for his disciples to ask something from him.... It has to be through prayers and when they pray you Christ , they automatically are worshipping him. You see?

Jesus taught his followers to pray "in his name"

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that WHATEVER YOU ASK THE FATHER IN MY NAME, he may give it to you" John 15:16.

Not to him!
All prayers must be directed to the father {Matthew 6:9} but in Jesus name!

This means the true God will not answer anyone unless you obey Jesus and do what he commanded! Matthew 17:5

MaxInDHouse:

During the time God made Moses a God does he deserves to be worshiped at all?
The answer is "NO!" But what about obedience? Well God dealt harshly with some Israelites simply because they challenged Moses's authority! Numbers 12:1-12

Thomas was a weak follower of Jesus so when Jesus knew that this faithful and obedient man needed to see some things before his faith could be strengthen Jesus put on the body with bruises to convince his weak friend that he (Jesus) is alive. But Thomas wasn't referring to Jesus as God, it was an exclamation out of amazement just as someone would see something unimaginable and scream:

"Oluwa o!"

"Ayélála!"


"My Lord and my God!" depending on what the person believes.

Jesus taught his followers to pray "in his name"

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that WHATEVER YOU ASK THE FATHER IN MY NAME, he may give it to you" John 15:16.

Not to him!
All prayers must be directed to the father {Matthew 6:9} but in Jesus name!

This means the true God will not answer anyone unless you obey Jesus and do what he commanded! Matthew 17:5

Nigga, check John14;13. It is explicitly stated. Ask anything in my name and that I will do(meaning it he that will do it) so the Father may be glorified in the son.
Have you not come across John14:13?


You said Thomas was an exclamation. Oga even if it was, it is Jesus right to rebuke him just like he rebuke the man who called him 'Good'.
Lol weak follower of Jesus. Ok o.


Moses case and Jesus case are very very different. If God made Moses a God it is to two people. But he made Jesus a Good to all the inhabitants of the earth. Not just human, animals principalities and power.
He made Jesus name the only name or the most powerful name after His.
He made Jesus name above every other name that at the mention, every knee should bow and every tongue should exclaim that Jesus is Lord To God Glory.



Yes, Jesus did taught his followers to pray. He also charged them to pray with his name and pray to him. Check JOHN14:13 again to gain insight.


I do wonder what you will say about John14:13.

And finally what you will also say about Revelation22:13...... Where Jesus used God own attribute for himself when he said.

"I'm the alpha and Omega. The first and the last. The beginning and the end.".

Nigga you should know such title Jesus use belong to God.

Can Moses say such? After all. Like you said, he was also made a God. Lol

ifiokjohn:
Nigga, check John14;13. It is explicitly stated. Ask anything in my name and that I will do(meaning it he that will do it) so the Father may be glorified in the son.
Have you not come across John14:13?


You said Thomas was an exclamation. Oga even if it was, it is Jesus right to rebuke him just like he rebuke the man who called him 'Good'.
Lol weak follower of Jesus. Ok o.


Moses case and Jesus case are very very different. If God made Moses a God it is to two people. But he made Jesus a Good to all the inhabitants of the earth. Not just human, animals principalities and power.
He made Jesus name the only name or the most powerful name after His.
He made Jesus name above every other name that at the mention, every knee should bow and every tongue should exclaim that Jesus is Lord To God Glory.



Yes, Jesus did taught his followers to pray. He also charged them to pray with his name and pray to him. Check JOHN14:13 again to gain insight.


I do wonder what you will say about John14:13.

And finally what you will also say about Revelation22:13...... Where Jesus used God own attribute for himself when he said.

"I'm the alpha and Omega. The first and the last. The beginning and the end.".

Nigga you should know such title Jesus use belong to God.

Can Moses say such? After all. Like you said, he was also made a God. Lol

We don't need to continue arguing over this, if we can't agree it's OK.
Each person is free to worship the God of his or her choice.
Thank you!

MaxInDHouse:


We don't need to continue arguing over this, if we can't agree it's OK.
Each person is free to worship the God of his or her choice.
Thank you!

lol I'm not arguing. I'm telling you weather Christ or Elohim. You're not wrong.
Even God told the angels in Hebrew 1:6 to worship Christ ( his first born)
And like I showed you in John14.... Jesus explicitly told his disciples that they can pray to him. Praying weather you like it or not is worshipping.

ifiokjohn:

lol I'm not arguing. I'm telling you weather Christ or Elohim. You're not wrong.
Even God told the angels in Hebrew 1:6 to worship Christ ( his first born)
And like I showed you in John14.... Jesus explicitly told his disciples that they can pray to him. Praying weather you like it or not is worshipping.

The translators made lots and lots of mistakes due to their background. So before you can get the accurate knowledge of what you're reading in the Bible you need to compare different versions otherwise the trinitarian dogma will navigate your line of thought.
Praying is part of worship and Jesus said some will actually call him Lord, Lord yet he will deny them. WHY? Because they failed to do the will of his father! Matthew 7:21-23

So instead of thinking about how to worship Jesus it's better to work on the will of the father which Jesus said is most important! John 6:38

MaxInDHouse:


The translators made lots and lots of mistakes due to their background. So before you can get the accurate knowledge of what you're reading in the Bible you need to compare different versions otherwise the trinitarian dogma will navigate your line of thought.
Praying is part of worship and Jesus said some will actually call him Lord, Lord yet he will deny them. WHY? Because they failed to do the will of his father! Matthew 7:21-23

So instead of thinking about how to worship Jesus it's better to work on the will of the father which Jesus said is most important! John 6:38

Yes. Christ is right. But nevertheless in that context he was saying if you like call him Lord Lord, if you don't do the will of your Father. Be a good person, cloth the naked, feed the hungry etc. He is going to deny you.


Maybe the translators made mistake. But do you think they made mistake in that prayer part?. Because I don't think they will make such mistake.
Let assume hebrew was saying "Let all the Angels respect or pay obeisance to his Firstborn".

Now let's talk about Revelation where Jesus used the attribute or title of GoD.. will you call that mistranslation?
Let's talk about how Jesus said he will be the one to resurrect the dead doing resurrection. Ask the muslims, in the Quran Allah said he will be the one to raise the dead and here is Jesus ( just a prophet as you call him) claiming that he will raise the dead. Abi is that also a mistranslation?

Thank God you said praying is part of worship. Now can you tell me why Jesus told his disciples to pray to him? Because telling someone to ask you anything and you will do through prayers is worshipping.

You said praying is act of worship.
Can you tell me the things that makes up Worshipping.?

See, I'm learning from you ok.

ifiokjohn:
Yes. Christ is right. But nevertheless in that context he was saying if you like call him Lord Lord, if you don't do the will of your Father. Be a good person, cloth the naked, feed the hungry etc. He is going to deny you.


Maybe the translators made mistake. But do you think they made mistake in that prayer part?. Because I don't think they will make such mistake.
Let assume hebrew was saying "Let all the Angels respect or pay obeisance to his Firstborn".

Now let's talk about Revelation where Jesus used the attribute or title of GoD.. will you call that mistranslation?
Let's talk about how Jesus said he will be the one to resurrect the dead doing resurrection. Ask the muslims, in the Quran Allah said he will be the one to raise the dead and here is Jesus ( just a prophet as you call him) claiming that he will raise the dead. Abi is that also a mistranslation?

It's the voice of the Archangel that will raise the dead and that's Jesus' voice! 1Thessalonians 4:16
All authority both in heaven and on earth has been given to Jesus {Matthew 28:18} so leave the Muslims, all of them are walking corpse when Jesus returns, because they can't know God's will talkless doing it.

Mind you the highlighted is what people in general believes throughout all religions but that's not God's will!