Joagbaje:

when we give, we lay hold on eternal life.

Damn this na new one the gospel according to Jo

Pastor JOE is a 419 pastor!!!

Always twisting and turning the words of GOD.

Joe, You better repent from your money! money!! and more money!!! ways and turn to GOD almighty for what shall it profit a man who gains the whole world and lose his soul.

Leave this your Gospel according to Saint ''Money''. Embrace the God almighty. Money worshing is Idolatory. A word is enough!!!

@ ALL;

What an interesting thread. Please be informed that Believing is a choice. Also, when you see the word WICKED, SINNER in the bible, it does not connote the deeds of a man. It refers to the unbelieving nature.

Secondly, you all seem too intelligent to rain insults unnecessarily on Jo because he is teaching you his understanding of the word of God. If you have a better understanding, its better you use it to counter Jo's instead of insults. If you believe in God, you'd care to know how he'll respond to most of your rash use of words against Jo.

@ Jo;

You are such a loving, caring & patient man always trying to reach out to these NL members most of which do not deserve it even if Jesus died for us all, some are sons of perdition, a path their spirits chose. Please ignore them as best possible. Pass any message you wish any time you want to & be informed that there are others on this forum who are always blessed by your teachings.

I for one am a giver with a passion & I lack nothing. I beleive in the word of God & it produces results in my life.

Micuilles:

@ ALL;

What an interesting thread. Please be informed that Believing is a choice. Also, when you see the word WICKED, SINNER in the bible, it does not connote the deeds of a man. It refers to the unbelieving nature.

Really? , Wicked and sinner does not "connote" the deeds of a man?

So, if the deeds of the man includes Murder, Fornicating, Molesting and so on. All that does not matter because they have a "believing nature".

Seriously?.  So, a muslim or  Buddhist or a Non- Christian are all "Wicked and Sinners" simply because they do not choose to believe what you believe.

Of course, it's people like you that would fill the churches of Fraudsters.

^^ Based on this "micu-whatever's" understanding, homosexuals like Odulele who kept lying and denying till they were confronted with evidence are not sinners because they believe. Same with Eddie Long who is still lying till now even after paying off his victims with church funds and others like them.

Best of all, the Bible itself says "Demons believe and tremble". Which means they too are not sinners since they have a believing nature - no wonder they have so many demonic characters in the churches they attend - they stand in the same place as demons.

When some of us behave like Christ and call these people a generation of vipers and thieves and criminals whose foray into Christendom is simply a means to a full stomach, people complain yet what can one say to such as the empty head above?

They make the Name of Christ almost shameful

^^^^^ Don't mind am. MUGUS will always pay 419 pastors no matter how hard you try to make dem see. A 'man of god' who claims to be under annointing just claimed that his own Jesus hired 'ship' as revealed by his own 'holy spirit' under the devine tutalage of his own 'god' and his congregation will accept that while proclaiming that he is full of gift of 'holy spirit'

One wonder how many holy spirits there are sef when all this so called anointed mog cannot even agree on anything in the Bible.

Every 'man of god' will interprete Bible according to how it suits him. No wonder we have million and one interpretations and churches all over the place.

Well, on the last day so many of you fakes will be sooooo disapointed. All you lovers of your belly and materialistic goons!

Nigeria is full of christians yet the country is going from bad to worse. The only sign you see in the land is pastors dey prosper, church goers dey hear am!

They claim to talk to God everyday yet cannot ask God to save their fatherland.

If things continue like this, your children, children will have no nigeria to enjoy all these loots of yours that is for sure.

Micuilles:

@ ALL;

What an interesting thread. Please be informed that Believing is a choice. Also, when you see the word WICKED, SINNER in the bible, it does not connote the deeds of a man. It refers to the unbelieving nature.

Secondly, you all seem too intelligent to rain insults unnecessarily on Jo because he is teaching you his understanding of the word of God. If you have a better understanding, its better you use it to counter Jo's instead of insults. If you believe in God, you'd care to know how he'll respond to most of your rash use of words against Jo.

@ Jo;

You are such a loving, caring & patient man always trying to reach out to these NL members most of which do not deserve it even if Jesus died for us all, some are sons of perdition, a path their spirits chose. Please ignore them as best possible. Pass any message you wish any time you want to & be informed that there are others on this forum who are always blessed by your teachings.

I for one am a giver with a passion & I lack nothing. I beleive in the word of God & it produces results in my life.

Don't be surprised folks if this "micuillis" dude is another of those multiple ID scamming lot!

@nuclearboy, Eddie Long and his Church might have purchased some "insurance" to cover those kinds of 8-figure settlements but I don't know they could have covered all of the settlement.

Pastor JoAgbaje is not going to own up to his money grubbing ways despite being a successful artist as claimed,

@JoAgbaje, there is no sermon a Pastor is going to preach today that hasn't been preached before except it's HERESY, no wonder those Nigerian Churches are now "exporting Gospel" to the West, your mates are exporting Cars, Planes, Technology, all kinds of finished good (including tooth pick), etc to Nigeria and you're "exporting gospel" to Nigerians in diaspora in exchange for their hard earned cash, omase ooo!

Joagbaje:

To receive a prophet in that context is giving or welfare. Everything has it's place. It's like a man says. "I won't pray to God , but I will read bible only"   He will surely get the benefit of studying but he will lose the Benefit of payer. But why should we be looking for how to escape simple scriptural teachings?.

the point is simple . It's a law of sowing and reaping, maybe that's what your guy who saaid " if you give a junior pastor you have 20% if you give to G.O . You have 100%" I don't know if it's just a joke. But if it really happened I guess it is based on that scripture . Trying to say there is a reward for giving to fellow christian ,there is higher reward for giving to Mr M.O.G.

Well you were on that thread! https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-416595.0.html

The West can and will never take Nigeria pastors seriously. Never!

The issue of charity begins at home will always come to the fore. ''If your message is so great like you claim, why is your country still soooo messed up?''

Are your people that thick that they don't get the message? Na money all of dem dey find.

Like someone rightly said, let them go and convert all the boko haram guys first and then save all the corrupt politicians and fellow nigerians.

No, they won't do that. They will rather wait for their own share of the booty while forgetting the yoruba adage that says ''Person wey thief and person wey receive stolen goods'' are both criminals!!

Micuilles:

@ Jo;

Y[b]ou are such a loving, caring & patient man[/b] always trying to reach out to these NL members most of which do not deserve it even if Jesus died for us all,

Na wa oh. See the sweet words this can't be for free Oga Jo, how much you pay this chap to do reputation/image management for you

Micuilles:

I for one am a giver with a passion & I lack nothing. I beleive in the word of God & it produces results in my life.

Do you really understand what it means to lack nothing

ogajim:

you're "exporting gospel" to Nigerians in diaspora in exchange for their hard earned cash, omase ooo!

This would have been a good thing, if only the FOREX goes through CBN. It would reduce our dependence on crude oil But trust our pastors to bring it in boxes, that's if they do decide to bring it in.

At a time there I wondered why it took you guys so much time to respond in insults as usual. Even to someone you don't know. Perhaps I'm one your parent, you just rained abuses on? or maybe your priest, boss in the office, even your creator? Use your God given brains dearies. it doesn't cost much to be nice.

Most of you guys esteem yourselves so highly that you think people will create multiple IDs just to get you to believe their opinions? Stop being so egocentric. you're not all that & with the little I've read on this forum, I think you haters missed your callings. You all should be working together as a group "The Fighters, or better still, " The African Quarelling gang". You likey , Get a life guys, it don't cost much.

@ Jo; Did I not tell you that this guys are not worth it? They're incorrigible. You just ignore their lot & go ahead with you nice work.

Micuilles:

At a time there I wondered why it took you guys so much time to respond in insults as usual. Even to someone you don't know. Perhaps I'm one your parent, you just rained abuses on? or maybe your priest, boss in the office, even your creator? Use your God given brains dearies. it doesn't cost much to be nice.

Most of you guys esteem yourselves so highly that you think people will create multiple IDs just to get you to believe their opinions? Stop being so egocentric. you're not all that & with the little I've read on this forum, I think you haters missed your callings. You all should be working together as a group "The Fighters, or better still, " The African Quarelling gang". You likey , Get a life guys, it don't cost much.

@ Jo; Did I not tell you that this guys are not worth it? They're incorrigible. You just ignore their lot & go ahead with you nice work.

Perhaps Not.
Lol @ the Concept of you being Our Creator responding on a public forum. Very unusual analogy.

Not everyone kisses Jo's A.s.s. So forgive the "haters" for having their own point of views.

federalist:

I am just tired of the whole ruse.

I grew up attending CAC pry school and St John Grammar school, all founded by the early christian.

If not because of St Loius catholic hospital, owo Ondo state, possibly I would have been dead and buried.  A wonderful father in that church was the angel God used to  nurse me back from the from the land of the dead!!!

yet i was a muslim at the time!!!

So when i grew up, i want to know the jesus and God of these these christian more. possibly these led to my conversion.

Which kind of pastors do we have these days? our churches  are run like corporation than true churches.

before the "dont talk evil about men of God" advocate will reply to these observation, Why didnt Joseph Ayo Babalola transfer all CAC church properties to his family? Or Baba Akindayomi of Redeemed? because they dont have children to carry on?

What do we have now? the founder is the president,  mama GO is the vice President and the children of the founder are all member of the board.

Soo funny. our modern pastors are just capitalising on the extreme poverty and ignorance of our people to fleece the miracle-seeking congregation.

Do U hear the joke about the nigerian preacher that was invited to a church in Germany. The man of God asked the member of the church that want  a "car miracle" to step forward. Nobody answer him.

Surprised, he  pastor asked his host why nobody want to miraculously have their own car.

His host replied that owing a car is not a miracle. You simply walk into a dealer shop and tell them when and how you can pay for any car of your choice. Pronto, You are a car owner!!!

Imagine the same alter call for a "car miracle" in Nigeria. The pew will be filled to the brim.

God save us from the men of God!!!

Will I still meet believers?  i wonder why jesus asked this terribly probing question.

Your testimony is great.
i pray that God should open their eyes

Any gospel which is not centered on the cross and mortification of the flesh and sin is a false gospel. Jesus exemplified the gospel of the cross and not of prosperity. The prosperity gospel is a gospel set to appeal to fleshly lusts and pride.

Preachers say God wants us to be rich when His word says "Godliness with contentment is great gain "
Preachers say God wants us to be rich when His word says  " It is easier for a camel to pass through a needle's eye than a rich man to enter heaven "
Preachers say God wants us to be rich when His word says   "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor and then come follow me "
Preachers say God wants us to be rich when His word says  "Do not love the world or anything in it "

The road is indeed very narrow! Only the very few can find it. I'd rather believe the words and example of Jesus than the words and examples of prosperity preachers even though they are prospering and stupendously wealthy in this age.

^^^ And we have been "misusing" your user name oh! Maybe in your honour we'll have to think of an alternative for "kalo-kalo gospel"!  Was it zikky who started it? Oya, fresh and original idea needed.

Seriously, though, it should not be that difficult for honest seekers reading the Bible objectively (or "in spirit and truth" to appreciate the correctness of what you have posted --- and to truly understand the gospel of Christ. I suppose some find it difficult to accept if they understand it as not being about prosperity. When Jesus said it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for the rich to enter into the kingdom of God even his disciples were astonished. Also, later on when he gave them his "hard teachings" some of his followers left (just like today's prosperitians cannot accept the hard things in the gospel) --- but then this is where true disciples come into their own. When some of the followers were leaving, Jesus asked if the twelve wanted to leave too. Then, in John 6:68

Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”

Indeed while prosperitians are turning from the teachings of Jesus (because some of them are "hard" and following the gospel of mammon, true disciples are still saying "Lord, to whom shall we go"?

The merchandising in some Churches is just simply ridiculous. From sale of handkerchiefs to oil,packaged water etc. Jesus whom many claim to be following dislodged the merchandisers in the temple and he was very angry about their activities.We are doing exactly just that today. It's the end time though and things like this should be expected anyway. I'm not surprised, How about private universities established with church funds and the church members can't even afford to send their children there? Ridiculous

Enigma:

^^^ And we have been "misusing" your user name oh! Maybe in your honour we'll have to think of an alternative for "kalo-kalo gospel"!  Was it zikky who started it? Oya, fresh and original idea needed.

@Zikky:

Dude that said he lacks nothing definitely lacks reason and understanding.

Oh, I forgot - those do not matter - only cash does and even though he's sneaking to use the office computer, pastor chris has promised him money will fall upon him one day so he is content and thus needs nothing - except the delusion.

Zikkyy:

How many? when compared to the general populations of givers? If such (prosperity related) testomonies abound as you say, how come the poor still outnumber the so called 'prosperous' in most churches (100% in every church i have visited)

how can you conclude in one vidit to a church?How do you determine a poor person? I have seen a man on TShirt and jeans giving millions. You won't know from looking at him.

I asked if there are blessings specific to sowing unto the pastor.

The scriptures speaks for themselves .

Galatians 6:6-7
Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Philippians 4:10-11
But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity. 11 Not that I speak in respect of want. . . 17.Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

I have seen testimony of somebody getting a job due to sowing activities and i have seen testimony of another person getting a job due to simple act of praying

Everything has it's place. The point is, that it is not unscriptural to sow to ministers as it is portrayed here.

These different kinds of giving, kindly tell us the different kind of returns associated with them. So we know how to maximise our returns. for exmple; if i want to be President of Nigeria, what type of giving should i undertake,

It's not arithmetic. We give by the wisdom of God. That's another ball game. A woman who desires the fruit of the womb. May be led of God to sponsor another persons child in school and by that deed, she gets pregnant. Another woman may be prayed for by a pastor and she gets pregnant. So it's not mathematics.

buying myself a prado e.t.c if you are unable to provide answers to questions like this, then i see no justification for cataegorizing givings according to potential benefits it does not make sense to anybody if the potential benefits only exist in the head of the pastor.

Ephesians 6:2-3
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

How come paul didn't say . "Pray for long life that you may live long" and this honour for parents is primarily talking about giving. Sowing seed to their life.

Not giving, it's welfare (apologies for editing your post ). It's was about meeting a need. Remember the desciples were told to go out with nothing. It's not about giving to a rich pastor, or a pastor with private jet. Jesus did not prech giving to rich pastors.

Remember what paul said . He said he was happy that they gave to him and that his reason for the happiness was not because of a need but rather because of the blessing they should recieve.

Philippians 4:10-11
But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity. 11 Not that I speak in respect of want. . . 17.Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

Nna, i never said he was my guy I think he is more likely to be your guy

This is not fair you know i am not against giving to pastors i (

Okay , deal. That side settled.

am against pastors preachings on giving, is it that difficult to understand :

One of the hardest thing most ministers face is telling brethren to come and give to them. Even though it is scriptural ,most ministers in observe don't quote that scripture so as not to be misunderstood . But they teach on giving to God, giving to church project ,giving for the gospel, giving to the poor. Giving to your parents etc. It is not wrong for a minister to teach about giving. Giving is our life as christian. But I find it hard to hear a preacher say "come and give me money or sow into my life" I'm not saying it may not happen but I havent seen . Mostly a visiting pastor can be bold enough to teach such things by telling brethren to sow into the life of their pastor .

I will say when we give out of love for our neighbour (which includes giving to pastor), we are blessed

I agree

If by faith you mean antipated returns, i still believe it is wrong. We are told to give cos such acts aligns with the commandment to love our neighbour, we are told such acts confers reward on the giver, and it's simply because you will be adhering to the commandment of loving your neighbour.

But the ground you sow also differs. A man of God carries and anointing , which can prosper a man. By the pronouncement of his mouth.

2 Corinthians 6:10
(we). . . as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

There is preference, giving to an a believer and an unbeliever is not the same result . Giving to family relation and a christian is not the same result. Also giving to a brother and giving to a minister is not the same result. And pls don't ask me the different results. Because it is not maths.

Zikkyy:

Can we say the man that don't give is truly a christian?

If he is born again, Of course he is a christian. Being born again is not an end . It's a beginning. He has to grow up. And reign over the flesh , Covetousness is part of the works of the flesh to deal with. If the love of God is in your heart you will recognise that you're blessed to be a blessing to others.

And you are of the view dangly the 'multiple returns carrot' in their face is the best approach to teaching christians how to love

Don't misquote me . The promise of return upon giving ,is it scriptural? Did God say so? Is God dangling carrots. A minister only announce what the word says. And a real minister himself is the number one giver. Because he believes in it and he does it.

Zikkyy:

Damn this na new one the gospel according to Jo

1 Timothy 6:17-19
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; 18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Eternal life is a quality of life.It is not longevity. It is not a life in heaven , it is a life in the now which we have recieved. And laying hold on it is to partake of it's benefit by having abilities unlocked in you. A life beyond limitations .  A life by revelation and knowledge of truth.

Pastor JoAgbaje don come again with another theory ooooo.

Joagbaje:

how can you conclude in one vidit to a church?How do you determine a poor person? I have seen a man on TShirt and jeans giving millions. You won't know from looking at him.

The scriptures speaks for themselves .

Galatians 6:6-7
Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Philippians 4:10-11
But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity. 11 Not that I speak in respect of want. . . 17.Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.


Everything has it's place. The point is, that it is not unscriptural to sow to ministers as it is portrayed here.

It's not arithmetic. We give by the wisdom of God. That's another ball game. A woman who desires the fruit of the womb. May be led of God to sponsor another persons child in school and by that deed, she gets pregnant. Another woman may be prayed for by a pastor and she gets pregnant. So it's not mathematics.

Ephesians 6:2-3
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

How come paul didn't say . "Pray for long life that you may live long" and this honour for parents is primarily talking about giving. Sowing seed to their life.

Remember what paul said . He said he was happy that they gave to him and that his reason for the happiness was not because of a need but rather because of the blessing they should recieve.

Philippians 4:10-11
But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity. 11 Not that I speak in respect of want. . . 17.Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

Nna, i never said he was my guy I think he is more likely to be your guy


Okay , deal. That side settled.

One of the hardest thing most ministers face is telling brethren to come and give to them. Even though it is scriptural ,most ministers in observe don't quote that scripture so as not to be misunderstood . But they teach on giving to God, giving to church project ,giving for the gospel, giving to the poor. Giving to your parents etc. It is not wrong for a minister to teach about giving. Giving is our life as christian. But I find it hard to hear a preacher say "come and give me money or sow into my life" I'm not saying it may not happen but I havent seen . Mostly a visiting pastor can be bold enough to teach such things by telling brethren to sow into the life of their pastor .

I agree

But the ground you sow also differs. A man of God carries and anointing , which can prosper a man. By the pronouncement of his mouth.

2 Corinthians 6:10
(we). . . as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

There is preference, giving to an a believer and an unbeliever is not the same result . Giving to family relation and a christian is not the same result. Also giving to a brother and giving to a minister is not the same result. And pls don't ask me the different results. Because it is not maths.

I don't know if Jo has eve come across this passage :

1 Timothy 5:8

King James Version (KJV)

8But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

You need to stop twisting the Scriptures for the filthy lucre my man, "what shall it profit a man if he gains the whole World and lose his own soul"?

Pls explain which scripture I twisted

ogajim:

I don't know if Jo has eve come across this passage :

1 Timothy 5:8
King James Version (KJV)
8But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Can you explain the relevance of the scripture you quoted pls? I don't understand .

You need to stop twisting the Scriptures for the filthy lucre my man, "what shall it profit a man if he gains the whole World and lose his own soul"?

Pls explain the scriptures I twisted.

Joagbaje:

how can you conclude in one vidit to a church?How do you determine a poor person? I have seen a man on TShirt and jeans giving millions. You won't know from looking at him.

To determine a poor person, i used your definition of a prosperous man i.e

Joagbaje:
But I have often explained that prosperity is not about finances it is about functioning in the fulness of Gods blessings. . . .

Joagbaje:
I can define it as walking in Gods blessing

I just don't see them walking in the fullness of Gods blessings

Joagbaje:

The scriptures speaks for themselves .

Galatians 6:6-7
Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Philippians 4:10-11
But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity. 11 Not that I speak in respect of want.  . . 17.Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

The verse above does not say there are blessings that can only be obtained via giving to pastor

Joagbaje:

Everything has it's place. The point is, that it is not unscriptural to sow to ministers as it is portrayed here.

It's unscriptural to 'give' to pastor in anticipation of profit/dividend That's casino gospel

Joagbaje:

It's not arithmetic. We give by the wisdom of God. That's another ball game. A woman who desires the fruit of the womb. May be led of God to sponsor another persons child in school and by that deed, she gets pregnant.  Another woman may be prayed for by a pastor and she gets pregnant. So it's not mathematics.

If its not arithmetic, then you agree there is no benefit/blessings that's can only be obtained from giving to pastor

Joagbaje:

Ephesians 6:2-3
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

How come paul didn't say .  "Pray for long life that you may live long"  and this honour for parents is primarily talking about giving. Sowing seed to their life.

You don come again why monetize 'honour' where did you read Paul say 'honour for parents is primarily talking about giving. Sowing seed to their life'

Joagbaje:

It is not wrong for a minister to teach  about giving.

Depends on how it's taught. It's wrong to teach casino gospel; i.e. give for profit/dividend

Joagbaje:

Giving is our life as christian. 

This is what i've been talking about, but you deliberately refused to understand. A pastor don't need to spend hours on the pulpit teaching giving. It's a character expected of a true Christian. The problem is that pastors are in a hurry to 'harvest' the congregation Pastors may have been successful attracting people to their church, but they have not been successful with 'soul winning'

Joagbaje:

But I find it hard to hear a preacher say "come and give me money or sow into my life" I'm not saying it may not happen but I havent seen .

I believe it because you are not in a position to see events like this When the sermon is all about the numerous benefits to be derived from sowing to a prophet, the congregation interprets that as an invitation to 'dash' pastor money.

Joagbaje:

But the ground you sow also differs. A man of God carries and anointing , which can prosper a man. By the pronouncement of his mouth.

What i read you say here is that one can receive his prosperity through another man; the pastor We don't even need God for this, there is a shortcut So a pastor can pronounce prosperity on anybody, just like that I wonder why they have been withholding it. Why don't they just pronounce prosperity on the congregation once and for all  the government will not have to worry bout the issue of unemployment

Joagbaje:

There is preference, giving to an a believer and an  unbeliever is not the same result . Giving to family relation and a christian is not the same result. Also giving to a  brother and giving to a minister is not the same result. And pls don't ask me the different results. Because it is not maths.

Com'om Jo you know i will ask You're the one talking bout preference here

Joagbaje:

If he is born again, Of course he is a christian. Being born again is not an end . It's a beginning. He has to grow up. And reign over the flesh , Covetousness is part of the works of the flesh to deal with.

Joagbaje:
When we do other things as Christians and we don't give, it's a life of covetousness . It works against other things we are doing . It tends to a struggle.

My understanding of a Christian is one who is Christ-like or aspires to be Christ-like in everything he does. Your post does not give the impression you were talking about the man that became born again yesterday. So, i don't understand why a Christian will believe he is one if he lives 'a life of covetousness'. It can be traced back to the point where the chap decides to accept Christ, what was the motivation? This determines how we live our life as Christians. If the person became born again as a result of participation in the various 'promo' we see on t.v. (like the 'night of bliss' where miracle is advertise), we know what to expect

Joagbaje:

Don't misquote me . The promise of return upon giving ,is it scriptural? Did God say so? Is God dangling carrots. A minister only announce what the word says.

Yes, the bible talked about givers being blessed, but NOBODY preached giving for a return. i.e. Nobody preached that giving to pastor was the key to national wealth. People were not encouraged to give so they can receive their mansion or gold plated chariot, nobody preached that giving to senior pastor like Apostle Paul will yield a 100fold returns while giving to junior pastors will yield just 60fold return; God did not tell anybody to adopt preferential giving for maximum returns; God did not tell anybody to go through a pastor to obtain his/her prosperity; e.t.c

Oga Jo, that's the difference between what's written in the bible and what we observe today.

Zikkyy:

To determine a poor person, i used your definition of a prosperous man i.e

I just don't see them walking in the fullness of Gods blessings

Then your judgement is faulty.you don't judge prosperity by Materialism .

The verse above does not say there are blessings that can only be obtained via giving to pastor

I still don't understand this your "ONLY" emphasis. If the Word say to pray, we should pray, if the word say to sow seed to MOG , we do it likewise, let's stop going in circle.

It's unscriptural to 'give' to pastor in anticipation of profit/dividend That's casino gospel

Then you dont understand seed sowing . You sow a seed to have a harvest. If there is a seed then there must be a harvest.Can you explain this scripture.

Galatians 6:6-7
 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap

Is Paul encouraging kalo kalo here?

If its not arithmetic, then you agree there is no benefit/blessings that's can only be obtained from giving to pastor

What do you understand by prophet reward? If you check it out ,it answers the question .

You don come again why monetize 'honour' where did you read Paul say 'honour for parents is primarily talking about giving. Sowing seed to their life'

The Jews have a special giving to patents, some claim they don't need to give seed to parents again, since they have given to God. Jesus rebuked them because they denied thier parents the "honour"

Mark 7:11-13
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


Mark 7:11-13 living bible
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

The honour is gift ,value and care that parents deserve, doing this will trigger the grace of long life. Giving to God shouldn't take away the giving to parents. Giving to God should not take away the giving to a pastor. Giving to God should not take away the giving to the poor. Everything has it's place. One giving doesn't. Supplant the other.

Depends on how it's taught. It's wrong to teach casino gospel; i.e. give for profit/dividend

There is no casino gospel, you created it. And by your creation you desecrate the respect or sacredness of spiritual givings that scriptures teaches.

This is what i've been talking about, but you deliberately refused to understand. A pastor don't need to spend hours on the pulpit teaching giving. It's a character expected of a true Christian.

Now you're talking. Giving is a christian lifestyle . But the impression being created here is that givers are mugus.

The problem is that pastors are in a hurry to 'harvest' the congregation

That's the problem . Are you in their heart to determine the motive . A pastor teaches giving, for the sake of the sheep. Not for the sake of the pastor. Didnt Jesus teach on giving? Didn't paul teach on giving? Is it only giving a pastor teach on?. He teaches on righteousness, holy spirit, prayer, evangelism, love, studying scriptures . Etc. Why should it be the giving part that people attack and make it feel as though that's all a pastor teach daily. A minister teaches the whole counsel of God.

Pastors may have been successful attracting people to their church, but they have not been successful with 'soul winning'

Thats not our problem. If the sheep Is not well fed, they will find somewhere esle where their hunger can be satisfied . I was once in a church , hunngry for God ,for soull winning , for teaching, but I wasn't getting enough, God led me to another and my spiritual hunger was satisfied . That doesn't mean the other church was wrong, it's just that what was being taught couldn't satisfy my deep hunger. So every church has it's crowd. We should all find our places.

I believe it because you are not in a position to see events like this When the sermon is all about the numerous benefits to be derived from sowing to a prophet, the congregation interprets that as an invitation to 'dash' pastor money.

Ive not seen such church , maybe it's my ignorance. Anything can happen.

What i read you say here is that one can receive his prosperity through another man; the pastor We don't even need God for this, there is a shortcut So a pastor can pronounce prosperity on anybody, just like that I wonder why they have been withholding it. Why don't they just pronounce prosperity on the congregation once and for all  the government will not have to worry bout the issue of unemployment

Labour without the blessing of God is vanity. There are individuals who walk under a curse, they always labour in vain. Some. Are into hard life, people always turn against them. Some other lack the idea required to move them forward, wisdom is not working in them. When a minister break such things from them . Doors are open . The grace of God is unlocked . Their efforts can be crowned with success . Prayer doesn't take the place of work. If people can so juju to have money. The anointing of God can do much more. Success of a christian should be by the blessing. We should boast in our labour.

Deuteronomy 8:17-18
17 (lest). . thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth. 18 But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth,

Joagbaje:

1 Timothy 6:17-19
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; 18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Eternal life is a quality of life.It is not longevity. It is not a life in heaven , it is a life in the now which we have recieved. And laying hold on it is to partake of it's benefit by having abilities unlocked in you. A life beyond limitations .  A life by revelation and knowledge of truth.

How can eternal life be 'life in the now' is that your definition of eternal i see you have interpreted this quote to align with your casino gospel. i.e. receive the benefit of your actions today What possible 'life beyond limitations' will Warren Buffet or Bill Gate (or any loaded christian) be looking for in this world I have to disagree with you on this one sir, i don't think the 'time to come' does not refer to today or tomorrow. The way i see it, i think the message aligns with James position regarding our works being a demostration of our faith (i know you don't like James ).

Zikkyy:

. If [b]the person became born again as a result of participation in the various 'promo' we see on t.v. (like the 'night of bliss' [/b]where miracle is advertise), we know what to expect

You try o, you mean you can talk down on the salvation of a man that way . Pls display some reverence for Gods spirit. Conviction to salvation is the work of the holy spirit. A man can't be born again by promo.

Yes, the bible talked about givers being blessed, but NOBODY preached giving for a return.
i.e.

It's the same thing. If paul is telling them the benefit of giving , what was he inspiring them to do? When Jesus Said ,  " Give and it shall be giving"  what was he encouraging . There is a giving to worship, there is a seed. They are different thing. When you give to worship, you may not have Desiree for a return . You just want to bless God etc. But when you sow a seed , there is only one reason, "HARVEST" if not , it's no seed. Farmers don't put corn in the ground for storage. "The plough in hope." is that not what the bible says

. . he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

The Desiree for a harvest is called "FAITH" you must believe in the power of the seed you have sown

Zikkyy:

How can eternal life be 'life in the now'

Eternal life is not a life you recieve in heaven, if you don't have it here now, you can never have it.

1 John 5:13
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Joagbaje:


Galatians 6:6-7
Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap

Is Paul encouraging kalo kalo here?

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Galatians 6
8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Paul isn't encouraging kalo kalo at all nor is he talking about sowing money, verse 8 gives us more details of the message Paul was trying to convey.

Pastor JoAgbaje:

You twisted the Scriptures the moment you claimed that " Giving to family relation and a christian is not the same result".

I don't know that you've ever been to a farm to be so obsessed with "sowing" and "seed", which to the "untrained" ears and eyes equals MONEY/EGO/KUDI/OWO/GELD, etc.

Must everything be about money?

Let me ask you this Jo, say a guy that normally makes $20/hour spends 6 hours every week helping the "Church" out with one thing or the other including stuff that cost money but contribute $30 during offering time, would you say his contribution during that week was $30 or how would you classify it? Christianity is WAY more than money my friend. The number of Churches in Nigeria has yet to turn that country into a millionaires' haven, how come?