mrvitalis:

So much propaganda done finish this one what Russia sales is raw materials and technology

UK would still buy 2 billion pounds of Russian gas this year
US would still buy billions too same with Germany

The thing with Ukraine is when your enemies done start to support u against your brother know u are messing up

Let's see what happens, you can't rule out the possibilities of these things not happening.
What I was saying is when you compare the population of India and China the people who can afford are low compared to most western countries and then again these Asian countries has vested interest when dealing with the West and other countries in terms of trade.

angelfallz:
https://www.quora.com/Whos-winning-Ukraine-or-Russia/answer/Paul-Denlinger?ch=15&oid=341949069&share=35048d7e&srid=uT7V2k&target_type=answer

Who's winning, Ukraine or Russia?
In times like this, it helps me to look back to get perspective.

In 1989, there were the Tiananmen demonstrations in Beijing, where students called for western-style freedom and democracy, and urged Deng Xiaoping and the Chinese Communist Party to relinquish power.

The most famous image from that time is the image of tank man, the individual who became a symbol for so many people in the west of the desire among ordinary Chinese for freedom and democracy.

The whole world outside China sided with this one individual. Following the events of June 4, sanctions were imposed on the Chinese government; some of these are still in place, such as the US and EU arms embargoes against the Chinese government. For years, the Chinese economy slowed down. Deng Xiaoping called on Chinese to continue to go about their lives. In 1992, he visited southern China and Shenzhen to encourage business and trade with the rest of the world. Slowly, the economy picked up. Today, China has the largest economy in the world.

Who won: the Western media and western values of freedom and democracy? Or was it the Chinese Communist Party?

I would say that it was the Chinese Communist Party which rode out all the criticism and embargoes coming from all directions, and got on with the business of modernizing China. The people who made the most noise and predicted its downfall lost.

In 2019, there were severe demonstrations and arson in Hong Kong, with many of Hong Kong’s youth calling for Hong Kong to become independent of China, or even becoming a British colony again. They repudiated their own Chinese heritage, and fully embraced Western values of freedom and democracy, and called on the US government to intervene on their behalf. Western non-government organizations (NGOs) gave financial support to these demonstrators which made it difficult for many people to go to work. The Hong Kong government was helpless in dealing with the demonstrations.

The Western media again embraced these Hong Kong demonstrators as a symbol for how the people of Hong Kong and ordinary Chinese wanted freedom and democracy so that they could elect their own political leaders, just as they are elected in the west.

The Chinese government in Beijing passed a National Security Law for Hong Kong; the Hong Kong government had been unable to pass this since Hong Kong was returned to the PRC in 1997 because of local opposition. With the passage of the National Security Law, Beijing was able to send security personnel to Hong Kong to provide support to the Hong Kong police in apprehending demonstrators, and in putting the leaders on trial.

Today, in 2022, there are no more demonstrations in Hong Kong, and people are able to commute to their daily jobs without fear. The National Security Law has made clear that calling for overseas support against the Chinese government is illegal. Some Hong Kong people who do not like this law are emigrating to western countries. But the majority of people in HK have chosen to stay, and are just quietly getting on with their lives.

Most people in the Western media have forgotten about these Hong Kong demonstrations, because now they are focused on what is happening in Ukraine.

Here are the lessons I have learned, and how I apply them to the Russia/Ukraine dispute:

Issues are complicated, and most people don’t have the patience to understand all the contributing factors. Instead they embrace their own emotions and images. But often these are not real, because politics and international relations are about raw power, not emotions.
The stronger the initial reaction, the more quickly it is forgotten. People have short attention spans, and they are getting shorter;
Sanctions work until the nations and companies applying the sanctions review their profit and loss statements at the end of the quarter. Then they start wondering;
The western media has a stranglehold on western audiences because they like to focus on human interest stories with victims. How can anyone not sympathize with a Ukraine mother who loses her 9 year-old daughter who was shot by a Russian soldier? Doesn’t that show how evil Putin is? What more needs to be discussed?
The people and politicians who win in the end are the ones who take the long view and can ride out a tough situation, and don’t let the media frenzy distract them. Who was in charge in China in 1989? The Chinese Communist Party. Who is in charge in China in 2022? The Chinese Communist Party. I am not saying that they are good or bad, but they certainly know how to ride out a tough situation without getting distracted by western media noise.
Putin was a KGB colonel stationed in East Germany when the Berlin Wall came down. He has ruled Russia after the collapse of the USSR, and when it went through a decade of chaos before it gradually rebuilt its economy and society. Setting aside what you think of him personally, he is a tough person who has seen a lot more than any other western politician, and has had to survive these challenges.

China’s Xi Jinping is also a tough character; he was sent to a village for seven years where he had to clean latrines, among other tasks, for seven years. Do you know any western politicians or media personalities who had to do this? I don’t.

I believe that the close personal bond between Putin and Xi is based on the fact that both have had to deal with huge personal challenges, and they came out winning in the end. They understand that patience wins in the end, not what other people, especially the western media, say about them.

Right now, Ukraine’s President Zelenskyy is doing all he can to stay in front of the western media and win sympathy for Ukraine. Most in the west denounce Putin for his policy, and he is largely staying out of public view. Most people in the West are convinced that Putin is insane.

Putin is toughing things out, while western governments and the media are trying to land a knockout blow against Russia.

But Russia has had to deal with very tough situations before, and they came out as winners, just as the Chinese Communist Party has in China.

If my observations about China apply, Putin will come out the winner in the end, even though he will suffer in the short-term and will never be accepted in the West. But that doesn’t matter, because in the end, it is what Russians think of him which is most important.

I like your write up... but,what is the moral or legal justification for Russia invading a sovereign state Ukraine?. I really want you to answer this question.

Mooh247:


Go read up on China Russia 30 years deal and come back here to edit your comment and apologize to Putin

30 year deal of what cubic feet?

Can China use up 30% of what Europe is using, considering they have energy?

This is simple logic. It’s a reverse for Russia!

30 or 100 years deal, it won’t make up for Europes consumption except they find other Allie’s with power needs.

And with a crashing economy, the proceeds will be decline as Rubble is messed up and still getting messed up daily.

Will a smart China trade with Russia in USD?

Russia loses. This should not be a debate. Hoarding a product that can be sourced from anywhere won’t do a seller any good. It just opens opportunities for others

Mooh247:


Go read up on China Russia 30 years deal and come back here to edit your comment and apologize to Putin

Is this the nation you said want to buy gas?

How many cubic feet does China want to buy added to what they have? Thermal energy is not included

Be realistic and face facts squarely. You have every data you need.

brandsoncharlie:

Let's see what happens, you can't rule out the possibilities of these things not happening.
What I was saying is when you compare the population of India and China the people who can afford are low compared to most western countries and then again these Asian countries has vested interest when dealing with the West and other countries in terms of trade.

EU and west are only important to people who produce finished goods not raw materials like Russia ...China needs west not Russia

oneweb should build its own rocket.

Putin on hard work , let me laugh in russian ha cha cha cha tertris[b][/b]

Triangles1:
Don't be surprised the west cooked this war in other to seize some of Russian investment, Putin supposed to carry his billionaire families along this war, it may look as if Russia is winning but the west are on top of the game,
If you know you know.

Wisdom is profitable power only exhaust the strength.

Putin on hardwork.
The west on smart work.

Pass me some popcorn abeg

Dawn91:
[img]https://c./HjUdWiHjvbYAAAAd/eating-popcorn-watching.gif[/img]

Rumginger:
Pass me some popcorn abeg

[img]https://c./zX_b4vBmJ_UAAAAd/charles-the-french-tada.gif[/img]

[s]

uniquetechng:
Thought I was talking a sane human not knowing that I was wasting my time on a Sumph, even my 22 years old son knows that you don't go about throwing insults at random strangers online .
Reason of being in a forum is learn by sharing of knowledge not by insults but I dont expect someone with cerebral capacity to understand this.

[/s]

Triangles1:
Don't be surprised the west cooked this war in other to seize some of Russian investment, Putin supposed to carry his billionaire families along this war, it may look as if Russia is winning but the west are on top of the game,
If you know you know.

Wisdom is profitable power only exhaust the strength.

Putin on hardwork.
The west on smart work.

The entire plan was to suffer Ukrainians. Both Russians and the West know this from onset.

Where Elephant and Hippo are fighting, it's the grass that will suffer.........Atiku

What will sweeten me is if either Elephant or Hippo will help us scatter Aso rock small with one Akara.

Mooh247:





You sanction them, they sanction you back


Let Putin turn off Nord Stream 1 gas pipeline to Europe, let's see if Europe without Electricity powered by gas turbines are better than normal Nigerians without power shouting up NEPA

Let's see if they can withstand winter cold without Russian gas

Now all satellite company would have to pay through their noses to use NASA or Space X lunch vehicles..... America is truly an evil genius and masters of the game



.

Putin won’t be stupid to do that… Where will he get the money to finance the stupid war he started with all these sanctions?

Iliveforever:
Everybody dn chop breakfast tire

The only man that can stop all this war and nonsense is tinubu

indded he is a war lord.

Harshweather:
indded he is a war lord.

Bobo Chicago

No, it is not my write up. I copied it from quora.

Ah sir, you are making a mistake by attaching morals or legality to world politics. World politics is about raw power not morals or legality.
Take for instance the USA. What moral or legal justification did they have to invade a sovereign state Iraq? None.
But because they have the power, they have the might they invaded Iraq anyway.

Another instance, what moral or legal justification does the USA have in invading a sovereign state Afghanistan and after invading, refused to give them back their money, about $7 billion, instead the USA is going to share the money to victims of 9/11. You can read about it here: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/11/us-biden-to-split-frozen-afghan-funds-between-9-11-families

In the case of Russia invading Ukraine, the truth is that, the issue is beyond Ukraine. The issue is between the USA(NATO) and Russia. Ukraine is just the pawn.
NATO is an organisation created to contain Russia. There were agreements that NATO would not expand towards eastern europe. But it was happening anyway little by little(REMEMBER WHAT I SAID ABOUT WORLD POLITICS BEING ABOUT RAW POWER). Ukraine shares a border with Russia. Once Ukraine joins NATO, NATO can now place missiles in Ukraine that can hit Moscow without giving Moscow to time to intercept the missiles or retaliate with their own missiles. Also, because there are missiles in Ukraine that can destroy Moscow at anytime, it would be like your enemy holding a gun to your head, that enemy controls you. If he says jump you jump.
Russia/Putin had been warning, and asking for security guarantees from the USA and NATO, that Ukraine would not join NATO. He was ignored.

Sir, what right thinking world leader who cares about the sovereignty and security of his nation(HIS NATION IS A NUCLEAR POWER O!) would keep quiet and allow Ukraine to join NATO? To join an oragnisation that was created to contain them?

Or do you think, Putin is like Buhari, that does not care whether Boko haram or herdsmen are having a party of blood in his country?

Putin is doing what any right thinking leader would do, REMEMBER HE HAS THE RAW POWER. Russia is not a small country that can be pushed around.

The USA got intelligence report that Osama bin Laden was in Pakistan, they did not tell the Pakistani government(a sovereign nation o!) they entered Pakistan killed Osama bin Laden and bounced out. What did Pakistan do?

REMEMBER....RAW POWER!!!

Oyiboman69:
I like your write up... but,what is the moral or legal justification for Russia invading a sovereign state Ukraine?. I really want you to answer this question.

You can read these answers on quora
https://qr.ae/pGdoiM
https://qr.ae/pGdoic

d142475:


This is insightful and I get the angle you’re coming from. I agree that Putin and XI are tougher and more experienced actors than their peers.
However, comparing the Chinese situation or clampdown and the Russian aggression is like comparing apples and oranges.
First, the Chinese communist party fought internal rebellion (more or less like an internal clash of values ), so the issue of national sovereignty did not arise as much. The Russians have been fighting internal dissent for years in a similar fashion to the Chinese and they’ve pretty much gotten away with it. But this case is totally different; It’s the case of Russia attacking a sovereign nation and killing her civilians. To help you see how this is different, even countries that have always been neutral have taken a stand and are even sending lethal aids to Ukraine. Germany of all countries sent weapons. This is an existential threat to surrounding nations and they recognize it as such. For instance, Germany, pacifist for more than half a century, has immediately increased her defense budget and started undertaking an overhaul of her military. Also, hitherto neutral countries like Finland and Sweden have started contemplating the idea of joining NATO.
Yes, Europeans depend on Russia for energy and their economies are intertwined, but they’ve also started exploring ways of being less dependent on Russia. There is going to be massive changes in policy in Europe and America after this act of aggression. The white man can easily forget the plight of people in far away Middle East and Asia and Africa, but they won’t easily forget the specter of seeing their fellow Europeans with “blue eyes” and “blonde hairs” being turned into refugees by this act of aggression. This hits differently with them and they are already lamenting this.
Second, Russia will lose this war with regard to their strategic objective. They may bring down Zelensky and overthrow his government, but they will NEVER be able to capture or occupy Ukraine forever. If they install a puppet leader, they will never be able to win the Guerrilla warfare that will ensue. Remember, the Ukrainians a few years ago, brought down their previous Putin-puppet president - Yanukovych. The Ukrainians will fight any Putin installed regime with the last drop of their blood. Moreover, Ukraine, like most countries of the Eastern bloc, will never accept closer ties with Russia over ties with the West. If there was a slight chance of this happening, Putin has finally buried that chance. Overtime, the Russia economy will totally collapse from fighting the resistance of the Ukrainians and from the crippling sanctions. It costs a lot to wage a war! They can’t even sustain this war for a month without taking a substantial economic hit, let alone for years.
Third, this war is not even that popular in Russia. There have been credible reports that some of the soldiers sent to Ukraine didn’t even want to fight. Also, there are domestic protests against this war and Russia is trying hard to deprive her citizens of the full information about the affairs, because they know it’s not popular. It is not sustainable for a nation to engage in a war that is unpopular among her own people. Even those on the fence will turn against Putin when their economic situation deteriorates(as it’s beginning to) or when they see the blood shed perpetrated by their government or when their sons (the soldiers) begin to come home in body bags or when they are isolated from the rest of the world. This may lead to a popular uprising against Putin and it may be the beginning of the end for him.
Putin made a big mistake and miscalculation, and in the end, he will pay for it. Russia will never remain the same; Ukraine of course will never remain the same; Europe at large will never remain the same.
Trust me, they’d be lasting consequences from this war. Some will come naturally and others will come as a result of intentional policy shifts and a fundamental change in mindset among Europeans.

I copied that answer from quora, i did not write it.
Also, you seem to have forgotten the bolded,
If my observations about China apply, Putin will come out the winner in the end, even though he will suffer in the short-term and will never be accepted in the West. But that doesn’t matter, because in the end, it is what Russians think of him which is most important.

d142475:


This is insightful and I get the angle you’re coming from. I agree that Putin and XI are tougher and more experienced actors than their peers.
However, comparing the Chinese situation or clampdown and the Russian aggression is like comparing apples and oranges.
First, the Chinese communist party fought internal rebellion (more or less like an internal clash of values ), so the issue of national sovereignty did not arise as much. The Russians have been fighting internal dissent for years in a similar fashion to the Chinese and they’ve pretty much gotten away with it. But this case is totally different; It’s the case of Russia attacking a sovereign nation and killing her civilians. To help you see how this is different, even countries that have always been neutral have taken a stand and are even sending lethal aids to Ukraine. Germany of all countries sent weapons. This is an existential threat to surrounding nations and they recognize it as such. For instance, Germany, pacifist for more than half a century, has immediately increased her defense budget and started undertaking an overhaul of her military. Also, hitherto neutral countries like Finland and Sweden have started contemplating the idea of joining NATO.
Yes, Europeans depend on Russia for energy and their economies are intertwined, but they’ve also started exploring ways of being less dependent on Russia. There is going to be massive changes in policy in Europe and America after this act of aggression. The white man can easily forget the plight of people in far away Middle East and Asia and Africa, but they won’t easily forget the specter of seeing their fellow Europeans with “blue eyes” and “blonde hairs” being turned into refugees by this act of aggression. This hits differently with them and they are already lamenting this.
Second, Russia will lose this war with regard to their strategic objective. They may bring down Zelensky and overthrow his government, but they will NEVER be able to capture or occupy Ukraine forever. If they install a puppet leader, they will never be able to win the Guerrilla warfare that will ensue. Remember, the Ukrainians a few years ago, brought down their previous Putin-puppet president - Yanukovych. The Ukrainians will fight any Putin installed regime with the last drop of their blood. Moreover, Ukraine, like most countries of the Eastern bloc, will never accept closer ties with Russia over ties with the West. If there was a slight chance of this happening, Putin has finally buried that chance. Overtime, the Russia economy will totally collapse from fighting the resistance of the Ukrainians and from the crippling sanctions. It costs a lot to wage a war! They can’t even sustain this war for a month without taking a substantial economic hit, let alone for years.
Third, this war is not even that popular in Russia. There have been credible reports that some of the soldiers sent to Ukraine didn’t even want to fight. Also, there are domestic protests against this war and Russia is trying hard to deprive her citizens of the full information about the affairs, because they know it’s not popular. It is not sustainable for a nation to engage in a war that is unpopular among her own people. Even those on the fence will turn against Putin when their economic situation deteriorates(as it’s beginning to) or when they see the blood shed perpetrated by their government or when their sons (the soldiers) begin to come home in body bags or when they are isolated from the rest of the world. This may lead to a popular uprising against Putin and it may be the beginning of the end for him.
Putin made a big mistake and miscalculation, and in the end, he will pay for it. Russia will never remain the same; Ukraine of course will never remain the same; Europe at large will never remain the same.
Trust me, they’d be lasting consequences from this war. Some will come naturally and others will come as a result of intentional policy shifts and a fundamental change in mindset among Europeans.

Mooh247:




When gas supply don cut and their light don reduce.... Na to go sell I better pass my neighbour generator to Europeans go sure pass

Real Business.

Orjigbua Technical!

Haaa... I laugh in Putin!

angelfallz:
No, it is not my write up. I copied it from quora.

Ah sir, you are making a mistake by attaching morals or legality to world politics. World politics is about raw power not morals or legality.
Take for instance the USA. What moral or legal justification did they have to invade a sovereign state Iraq? None.
But because they have the power, they have the might they invaded Iraq anyway.

Another instance, what moral or legal justification does the USA have in invading a sovereign state Afghanistan and after invading, refused to give them back their money, about $7 billion, instead the USA is going to share the money to victims of 9/11. You can read about it here: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/11/us-biden-to-split-frozen-afghan-funds-between-9-11-families

In the case of Russia invading Ukraine, the truth is that, the issue is beyond Ukraine. The issue is between the USA(NATO) and Russia. Ukraine is just the pawn.
NATO is an organisation created to contain Russia. [b]There were agreements that NATO would not expand towards eastern europe. But it was happening anyway little by little([/b]REMEMBER WHAT I SAID ABOUT WORLD POLITICS BEING ABOUT RAW POWER). Ukraine shares a border with Russia. Once Ukraine joins NATO, NATO can now place missiles in Ukraine that can hit Moscow without giving Moscow to time to intercept the missiles or retaliate with their own missiles. Also, because there are missiles in Ukraine that can destroy Moscow at anytime, it would be like your enemy holding a gun to your head, that enemy controls you. If he says jump you jump.
Russia/Putin had been warning, and asking for security guarantees from the USA and NATO, that Ukraine would not join NATO. He was ignored.

Sir, what right thinking world leader who cares about the sovereignty and security of his nation(HIS NATION IS A NUCLEAR POWER O!) would keep quiet and allow Ukraine to join NATO? To join an oragnisation that was created to contain them?

Or do you think, Putin is like Buhari, that does not care whether Boko haram or herdsmen are having a party of blood in his country?

Putin is doing what any right thinking leader would do, REMEMBER HE HAS THE RAW POWER. Russia is not a small country that can be pushed around.

The USA got intelligence report that Osama bin Laden was in Pakistan, they did not tell the Pakistani government(a sovereign nation o!) they entered Pakistan killed Osama bin Laden and bounced out. What did Pakistan do?

REMEMBER....RAW POWER!!!

there's no such agreement. because America did that to Afghanistan because of the 9:11 event which they did not interfere with their government rather than trying to curb the terrorist activities going on in the country. What reasons does Putin had for attacking Ukraine?. because America evade Afghanistan which this your so cherished Russia at one point has also evade Afghanistan,should be equated to Russia's evasion of Ukraine and it is justifiable?. What become the fate of the less powerful countries like Nigeria in this your assertion?. If you have a reason to say that what Russia is doing is good then,I really can't phantom how we the less powerful countries can survive because people like you,will'll always have you reasons for defending their actions

Oyiboman69:
there's no such agreement. because America did that to Afghanistan because of the 9:11 event which they did not interfere with their government rather than trying to curb the terrorist activities going on in the country. What reasons does Putin had for attacking Ukraine?. because America evade Afghanistan which this your so cherished Russia at one point has also evade Afghanistan,should be equated to Russia's evasion of Ukraine and it is justifiable?. What become the fate of the less powerful countries like Nigeria in this your assertion?. If you have a reason to say that what Russia is doing is good then,I really can't phantom how we the less powerful countries can survive because people like you,will'll always have you reasons for defending their actions

So the Afghanistan war never had any civilian causalities, right? The Libya war was caused by an attack on USA abi? USA is a border away from Syria before they invaded them without any reasonable point. The Russian empire is not fighting to concur the world, it's protecting her country from probability of future war attack. you will know USA true colour is when Russia want to give Mexico nuclear weapons. I hope USA will fold their arms and watch them do that?

There is an agreement. Please get your facts right.
30 years ago China was a weak country. In China's history China has suffered a lot from the west, Britian France etc. Google rape of Nanjing
But today China is a powerful nation. That even the USA dare not try rubbish.
So if Nigeria does not want to be kicked around Nigeria has to become powerful.
You like many others think sentimentally. It does not work in world politics. if Afghanistan was a powerful nation would America invade it 9/11 or not?

I have told you the truth of what is happening in Ukraine you can choose to believe it or not.

The world is a brutal place. Throughout history it is weaker countries that suffer.

Oyiboman69:
there's no such agreement. because America did that to Afghanistan because of the 9:11 event which they did not interfere with their government rather than trying to curb the terrorist activities going on in the country. What reasons does Putin had for attacking Ukraine?. because America evade Afghanistan which this your so cherished Russia at one point has also evade Afghanistan,should be equated to Russia's evasion of Ukraine and it is justifiable?. What become the fate of the less powerful countries like Nigeria in this your assertion?. If you have a reason to say that what Russia is doing is good then,I really can't phantom how we the less powerful countries can survive because people like you,will'll always have you reasons for defending their actions

Triangles1:
Don't be surprised the west cooked this war in other to seize some of Russian investment, Putin supposed to carry his billionaire families along this war, it may look as if Russia is winning but the west are on top of the game,
If you know you know.

Wisdom is profitable power only exhaust the strength.

Putin on hardwork.
The west on smart work.

More like they are both winning, cos they want different things out of the war.

Edo to the world. If you don geri it, forget about it.

abobote:
This war must see the end of power drunked Putin

how is he power drunk? can you elaborate, please?

Mooh247:





You sanction them, they sanction you back


Let Putin turn off Nord Stream 1 gas pipeline to Europe, let's see if Europe without Electricity powered by gas turbines are better than normal Nigerians without power shouting up NEPA

Let's see if they can withstand winter cold without Russian gas

Now all satellite company would have to pay through their noses to use NASA or Space X lunch vehicles..... America is truly an evil genius and masters of the game



.

Nigerian army is still very weak and Nigeria can be reinvaded just as was done in 1856.

Tit for tat situation