TenQ:

Taqqiyya is in your blood!
Why change topic?

Kobojunkie:
I see you have nothing tangible to add any of what has been said so far.

haekymbahd:
The Quran when uthman compounded it in one dialect didn't have the diacritical marks so it was open to several Qiraat/accents.

One thing you need to know is that the Quran was revealed orally and not in written form in a book so the prophet and his followers were only memorising it even though some were written down in various fragment but we're compiled in one place in a book. Which means the Quran is what is being recited and not what is written.

If two or more Muslims read your so called versions of the Quran you wouldn't detect the difference you will only detect it when you see it written down because the Quran was written down in the approved accents with diacritical marks


All of the accepted qirāʾāt follow three basic rules:
1. Conformity to the consonantal skeleton of the ʿUthmānic muṣḥaf.

2. Consistency with Arabic grammar.

3. Authentic chain of transmission.

Those qirāʾāt that fall short of these conditions are shādhdh (anomalous/irregular).

All this Qiraat has their chains traced to the prophet himself...

If two or more Muslims read your so called versions of the Quran you wouldn't detect the difference you will only detect it when you see it written down because the Quran was written down in the approved accents with diacritical marks

wis3:
You brought about Zakir Naik and Late Ahmed Deedat. Are they the authors of the Quran? Are they one of Allah's prophets? Your arguments are invalid.

TenQ:

You make it seem like the only problem is the diacritical marks: How about extra words?
Qur'an 57:24
Between Warsh and Hafs version, there is an extra word. (The meaning is not totally changed however, but there is an extra Word) where
According to Hafs=Allah is the self sufficient
According to Warsh=Allah the self Sufficient

SAME verse, two different meanings!

If there is just one extra word, the Qur'an cannot claim to be perfectly preserved to the diacritical marks!

haekymbahd:
The moment you realized the Quran was revealed orally to Muhammad and he wasn't given a book you doubt will become clear....

The written Quran was typed and you can't rule the fact that there may be typo error. The Quran is what is being recited and not what is written.

Your problem is that you think the Quran written down is the Quran revealed by Allah.

Quran itself means recitation and there are approved dialects and accents....

What Muslims are saying is that the Quran being recited today is the same as was being recited at the time of the prophet not what is written down...

TenQ:

No sir.
The reason why the memories of the Sahab could not be relied upon indefinitely was that many of those who had memorized the Qur'an were dying in jihad. Those who hadn't died were forgetting some ayahs and surahs. This necessitated the compilation of the Qur'an in written form.

The moment Uthman made a codex, the Qur'an ceased being a recitation to a written book.

The moment Uthman distributed the codex, it makes it final. Are there other recitations of the Qur'an you accept other than that which has been preserved in written form?

Typo error in the Qur'an?
I am surprised at you because you have deviated away from the standard Islamic Narrative. The standard Islamic Narrative believe that the Qur'an is perfect preserved to the last dot (unlike the bible). Anyway, small small we shall arrive at the whole truth!

SIRTee15:


Ha Ha ha...he has gone to google.
Now tell us where Mohammed got the name Imran because Mary's father is actually Joachin. Imran is the father of Mariam in the book of exodus.
Explain to us how koran muddled up two different female characters but similar names- Mary and Mariam.
There must be an explanation because there's no 'error in the koran'.

DonroxyII:

The Authenticity of any Philosophies/
Principles Diminishes when subjected to Translations or Transliteration: Because the Descriptions in each language may not connote what the letters of the Arabic are actually Conveying:

Yoruba language for instance doesn't have exact word for word language for Hausa nor English Same goes for Arabic ....

Also, You don't dictate to Islamic Adherent what to do with their Doctrines or culture, they have right to do what they wanna do with it and Your Reasonableness doesn't have any binding on it as far as over 1.2bn Muslims all over the world are comfortable with the Natural Language of Prophet Mohammed as the Operational Language of Islam

Culture differs so is People's documentation of their description of Phenomenon in their culture which is called language:

Come with sense and reasoning not Spiritualism!

I'm a Yoruba man and all My life I learnt English(England language) all the Books I read were never translated to Yoruba from Primary school to Masters ...

I didn't cry to Queen Elizabeth because English owns My Educations/Philosophies/Principles of My Courses if I'm not comfortable, then I need to drop My Course and Learn Ifa Education where I shall be taught in Yoruba:

Islam is from Arabia and we keep the Arabic Same way we keep English for our Educations here for our Discipline even now I'm chatting you in English

DonroxyII:
are you from England ? If no why was your education and all the theories therein were not translated into your fathers/mothers tongue?

Why did you use English all through Your life !

TenQ:

I can never forget my 200L years ago. I was almost reciting the Shahada! My first English Qur'an was the Meaning of the Glorious Qur'an by Marmaduke Pickthall. I was following Ahmed Deedat like a fly will follow a rotten corpse.

Everything came to a stop because I WAS READING the Qur'an. I saw so may irreconcilables! Unlike you Muslims who should not question the Qur'an, I asked questions and the answers fell flat. So many things were wrong and didn't add up.

The final blow was wrecked when I started reading the hadiths in the state library. I'm sure Arabian night stories could have done better.

So bro!
I've come a long way with Islam, the only difference is that unlike you, I just don't memorise, I ask questions!

On my phone, I have at least five or six Qur'an Apps. The more you seek the truth, the farther it will lead you away from Islam.

Sorry bro to disappoint you!

DonroxyII:
I don't post to your satisfaction because you are mentally insatiable ... It comes with the Psychos:

Who is hell bent on giving a Nymph Orgasm on every Session
[b]
I post to educate people who may need one or two Enlightenment [/b]about the Op and that's all:

See you around

haekymbahd:
The moment you realized the Quran was revealed orally to Muhammad and he wasn't given a book you doubt will become clear....

The written Quran was typed and you can't rule the fact that there may be typo error. The Quran is what is being recited and not what is written.

Your problem is that you think the Quran written down is the Quran revealed by Allah.

Quran itself means recitation and there are approved dialects and accents....

What Muslims are saying is that the Quran being recited today is the same as was being recited at the time of the prophet not what is written down because those recitation (dialect and accents) can be traced back to the prophet himself..

wis3:
You brought about Zakir Naik and Late Ahmed Deedat. Are they the authors of the Quran? Are they one of Allah's prophets? Your arguments are invalid.

wis3:
Because unlike other beliefs. You can't alter or change anything about the religion hence it creates room for errors where in some faiths we have so many versions of their holy books all contradicting each other.

wis3:
It's what we have in
today Christianity? With several versions of the Bible, same book, different meanings? And you can't even begin to talk about it because it because it becomes an argument

Lawag3:


Please take two different versions of the bible and compare them most of them have the same message the same meaning

haekymbahd:
Muslims beleive the Quran as a direct revelation from God meaning not even prophet Muhammad formed those words but God himself.

Arabic and English doesn't necessarily go on a one on one basis i.e A word in Arabic might have atleast 5 different meanings in English which might change the context in which the Quran was written.

Even mispronouncing diactric marks on each word can change the meaning of the word even in Arabic which will change the context of the message.

So Allah himself revealed the Quran only in 7 dialect so as to prevent humans from falling into errors as it had happened with previous religions..

wis3:
They're not thesame

https://www.compellingtruth.org/difference-old-new-testament.html

mhmsadyq:


You aren't seeking for the truth.
You are seeking for information to win arguments online and on NL.
That, you will always find what suit your delusions.

Lawag3:


Explain to me more I really want to know why you think that they are not the same

TenQ:

I don't need to tell lies in a faceless forum like this.
Moreover, deceit or deception is a very Serious sin especially if it is done in the name of God in Christianity.

Islam truely sent me back to Christ!

TenQ:

[s]I don't need to tell lies in a faceless forum like this.
Moreover, deceit or deception is a very Serious sin especially if it is done in the name of God in Christianity. [/s]


Ahmed Deedat's books got me interested in Islam. I counted the cost. I knew my parents will be hurt if I converted into Islam BUT I knew that they would not disown me not stop paying my tution. My major problem thanks to Ahmed Deedat was Trinity. I wanted to serve God truly and then of it has to be Islam, so be it.

But thereafter, in seeking for for knowledge in Islam, I knew that so many things were wrong.

Islam truely sent me back to Christ!

haekymbahd:
Uthman never added diacritical marks to his codex. He sent written Qurans to different provinces accompanied with Readers to teach the recitation of the Quran.

The Quran was eventually written down in each Qiraat of the readers he sent to teach the Quran which can be traced back to the prophet..


All of the accepted qirāʾāt follow three basic rules:
1. Conformity to the consonantal skeleton of the ʿUthmānic muṣḥaf.

2. Consistency with Arabic grammar.

3. Authentic chain of transmission.

Those qirāʾāt that fall short of these conditions are shādhdh (anomalous/irregular).




Any Arabic Quran that doesn't conform with this above are not accepted.

wis3:
This clearly explains why alot of Christians are easily brainwashed by pastors. There are about 3billiion Muslims all over the world and you'd use Ahmed Deedat who wasn't even a Prophet the validate you claims Clearly you're just arguing for arguments sake

wis3:
Like you were ever a Muslim to begin with Keep lying to yourself inugo

Lawag3:


This is the problem I have with you Moslems from the Quran I have read the book is a book of confusion. I have been told by a sheikh to that Allah replaced some verses with more suitable verses. You are trying to say Allah was confused on what to write down in his book

AntiChristian:


I went to Google? So you are an Angel monitoring me when I visited the Google?

The Qu'ran never muddle up anything. Everything needed for us is clear in the Qu'ran.

And as I said before, your rants have no benefit to you or anyone.

How does the name of Mary's father concern me or you in this thread?

And Maryam is Mary and is different from Miriam!

TenQ:

You are repeating the same thing all over again. It is NOT about whether you accept a Qur'an's rendition or not. It is about the fact that other Qur'ans are in existence.

This means that there are other Quranic scriptures unlike what the standard Islamic Narrative says.

The Islamic narratives say
The Qur'an is perfectly preserved down to the diacritical marks
.... Unlike the bible where you have KJV, NIV, NWT etc. The Qur'an is ONE.

The problem of you Muslims is even higher-up: your problem is selecting between Arabic Qurans based on some set rules than selecting between TRANSLATIONS still based on these rules.

My issue with Islam is that EVEN THOUGH your Scholars had known this TRUTH for ages, they kept on selling false narratives to the Muslim community!

The ease at which your scholars tell lies to promote Islam is disturbing. I once read up a hadith (I can't remember which one now, I would have posted it here) which was a watered down real rendition in Arabic. A native Christian Arab speaker brought it to my notice and on Google checking, he was correct and the translation was being deceptive. Can we defend God with lies? I can hardly trust English translations of either the Qur'an or the hadiths now. Sometimes I have to do word checks with Google translate. This in my opinion is a bad strategy for defending God.

TenQ:

[s]I don't need to tell lies in a faceless forum like this.
Moreover, deceit or deception is a very Serious sin especially if it is done in the name of God in Christianity. [/s]


Ahmed Deedat's books got me interested in Islam. I counted the cost. I knew my parents will be hurt if I converted into Islam BUT I knew that they would not disown me not stop paying my tution. My major problem thanks to Ahmed Deedat was Trinity. I wanted to serve God truly and then of it has to be Islam, so be it.

But thereafter, in seeking for for knowledge in Islam, I knew that so many things were wrong.

Islam truely sent me back to Christ!

mhmsadyq:


Jazakallahu khairan.

Most times these christians already have their own answers to questions they ask about Islam.

We shouldn't give answers to please any christian.

I love your reply!

mhmsadyq:


I still don't think you truely seek for knowledge.
You only seek for validation for your doubts in christianity.

There are many materials on youtube and other media, even on NL, questioning the christianity and it beliefs.
Do you agree with any of these damaging videos and literatures?