Kobojunkie:
1. Do you know what the word "testify" means? It is not meant to be used when telling fables but to give an actual record of what in fact took place. Anything short of that is essentially bullsheet and meaningless as far as that is concerned.

2. If the same woman was called before a judge to give her testimony, you bet she would mention that she had her baby via IVF, even without being cajoled by the judge to open up about it. Why then is it so hard to ask that the same woman mention in what you folks called an assembly before God that it was IVF?

She was not been interrogated, it was a joyous moment.
And if it were to be a court case, whoever is interrogating her, will have to be specific about the question to ask her, in that case her answers will be specific as well.
But, it doesn't apply in this scenario, everybody is happy and joyous, and therefore, there was no need for specificity, she has/had every right to be vague with whatever she says.

ImaIma1:


Words on marble @ the bolded.

Let them sit and wait for someone giving a testimony to educate them on ways to conceive and have children.

So much anger over unnecessary issue. It's like getting mad because a young graduate appreciates his father and mother instead of his lecturers/teachers who taught and imparted the knowledge.

Who doesn't know that to gain knowledge and excel, you have to be educated? Who no wan go school, make e siddon dey wait for online testimony.

Mkelv0106:
1. She was not been interrogated, it was a joyous moment.
2.And if it were to be a court case, whoever is interrogating her, will have to be specific about the question to ask her, in that case her answers will be specific as well.
3. But, it doesn't apply in this scenario, everybody is happy and joyous, and therefore, there was no need for specificity, she has/had every right to be vague with whatever she says.

1. I said nothing of interrogations, mind you! Simply trying to point out that testifying or giving an account of events as suggested in scripture, is akin to being called to give a testimony or an account before a judge.

2. Again, I said nothing about an interrogation, only that if she was called to give testimony of the same birth before a judge, you can be certain she would have near no reservations indicating IVF(or another method) it was from. So my question is why the same level of honesty cannot and should not be expected when she gives her testimony supposedly before God?

3. Being happy and joyous when giving testimony is all good, but it shouldn't. in any manner, take away from the quality of the testimony to be given, should it?

Acidosis:
You lots seem to show more interest than the actual scientists who carried out the procedure. Why? LOL make una no dey "camouflage" una feelings. We are not babies. Talk to or against God directly if you have a problem with Him. Una just like to dey drag unnecessary issues.

It's on you if you chose not to understand what I am saying. I have said what I said. You can keep the personal assumptions and digs solo.

✌.

Mkelv0106:

All she did was testify about her delivery, she doesn't have to be specific about how she conceived the baby, IVF or whatever means. Mary the mother of Jesus conceived by divine intervention, neither she nor her Husband went about telling people how it happened.
My point is, there was no specificity required from her, on how she'll give her Thanksgiving, people buy babies, use surrogate and still dance to the altar, but hers came from her egg and probably her husband sperm, or her partner as d the case may be, the psychological and physical strength to go through the process and still come out of successful, irrespective of whether it's science or divine, is enough to give thanks. It's s not as if she was asked by the pastor, how she conceived and she blatantly lied, that wasn't the case, so I don't expect anybody that give birth by IVF to just come out and start telling everybody that their conception is via IVF . I still don't see the deceit.

Explaining this to people on this forum will be a very tall task, and those that won't get it, won't get it.

Somehow they always want to remove the God factor from IVF. They expect people to state it in their testimonies like it is not another process of conceiving.

That's why I asked in my earlier comment if they should also be stating if it was a particular sexual position they did or their frequency of sex. Because I know a couple who were placed on some medication by a doctor and told how and the frequency of sex. Should they also state it at the alter.

Is it the doctors that make the babies stay in the womb till term and come out healthy? Also, the fact that some others have failed shows that it is not absolute.

But most times, it is people that have a problem with the Christian faith or those with questionable Christian values that usually try to remove God from IVF babies.

Acidosis:






You and those few others already know a thousand and one ways to solve fertility problems, so what else do you want to know? Why are you so interested in how new parents share their joy?

You lots seem to show more interest than the actual scientists who carried out the procedure. Why? LOL make una no dey "camouflage" una feelings. We are not babies. Talk to or against God directly if you have a problem with Him. Una just like to dey drag unnecessary issues.

They are disguising . They want to learn about fertility methods from the testimony.

A couple in my church shared their journey during last month's Thanksgiving. It was a 10min long video testimony. They had triplets after 9yes of marriage.

They shared details including that they did IVF after it failed once. That's because they were sharing their whole journey. It's a choice to go into details or not. It doesn't mean that they would hide the information if someone walked up to them for advice.

I don't know what the fuss is on this forum.

ImaIma1:


They are disguising . They want to learn about fertility methods from the testimony.

A couple in my church shared their journey during last month's Thanksgiving. It was a 10min long video testimony. They had triplets after 9yes of marriage.

They shared details including that they did IVF after it failed once. That's because they were sharing their whole journey. It's a choice to go into details or not. It doesn't mean that they would hide the information if someone walked up to them for advice.

I don't know what the fuss is on this forum.

Absolutely.

For many new parents, the journey did not start and end with IVF so I don't understand the logic of the counter arguments. So many have visited over 20 hospitals, many consultants, herbal clinics, etc. Many have had miscarriages, surgeries, many have taken long-term medications to improve their fertility. Along the line, some have had failed ivfs, iuis, etc. So if eventually, one IVF becomes successful, I don't understand the need to give glory to IVF.

It's a journey and giving glory to just one attempt won't exactly capture the truth . Nobody has all the answers. The drugs taken, the instructions adhered to in the past, the food taken, have all contributed. IVF needs a lot more to work. It takes drugs (the most important), it takes faith, commitment from the couple, adherence to instructions, it takes serious emotional and financial investments, it takes the woman's body! That someone decides to thank God for a 20 year journey is the last thing any sane mind should worry about.

ImaIma1:


Explaining this to people on this forum will be a very tall task, and those that won't get it, won't get it.

Somehow they always want to remove the God factor from IVF. They expect people to state it in their testimonies like it is not another process of conceiving.

That's why I asked in my earlier comment if they should also be stating if it was a particular sexual position they did or their frequency of sex. Because I know a couple who were placed on some medication by a doctor and told how and the frequency of sex. Should they also state it at the alter.

Is it the doctors that make the babies stay in the womb till term and come out healthy? Also, the fact that some others have failed shows that it is not absolute.

But most times, it is people that have a problem with the Christian faith or those with questionable Christian values that usually try to remove God from IVF babies.

I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph

Acidosis:


Absolutely.

For many new parents, the journey did not start and end with IVF so I don't understand the logic of the counter arguments. So many have visited over 20 hospitals, many consultants, herbal clinics, etc. Many have had miscarriages, surgeries, many have taken long-term medications to improve their fertility. Along the line, some have had failed ivfs, iuis, etc. So if eventually, one IVF becomes successful, I don't understand the need to give glory to IVF.

It's a journey and giving glory to just one attempt won't exactly capture the truth . Nobody has all the answers. The drugs taken, the instructions adhered to in the past, the food taken, have all contributed. IVF needs a lot more to work. It takes drugs (the most important), it takes faith, commitment from the couple, adherence to instructions, it takes serious emotional and financial investments, it takes the woman's body! That someone decides to thank God for a 20 year journey is the last thing any sane mind should worry about.

I totally agree.

Instead of them to rejoice with the couple for their babies, they choose to make the process their problem.

Kobojunkie:
1. I said nothing of interrogations, mind you! Simply trying to point out that testifying or giving an account of events as suggested in scripture, is akin to being called to give a testimony or an account before a judge.

2. Again, I said nothing about an interrogation, only that if she was called to give testimony of the same birth before a judge, you can be certain she would have near no reservations indicating IVF(or another method) it was from. So my question is why the same level of honesty cannot and should not be expected when she gives her testimony supposedly before God?

3. Being happy and joyous when giving testimony is all good, but it shouldn't. in any manner, take away from the quality of the testimony to be given, should it?

Bcus, before giving testimony in the presence of a Judge in the court of law, she most have taken a oath with the Bible to say nothing but the truth and tell all.
But in this case, like I said, she has every right to be vague, not everybody in the congregation is even willing to seat through the story if she start telling it.
Or haven't you seen someone that did an operation, maybe for appendicitis, and still come for Thanksgiving to give God praise and thanks for saving him/her.
I don't see why this case shud be different.
So, someone that survive an accident, just bcus they put on their seatbelt, shud thank science, and if they give their testimony and don't say it was bcus of their seatbelt they didn't go through the windscreen, but God alone delivered them, I guess that makes them hypocrite too.

Make two of una dey suck each other’s ti.ts there, exchanging crappy nonsense.
It doesn’t hide from the fact that your reasoning is defective. But of course, even after seeing all the good arguments, you’ll still prefer to wallow in pathetic ignorance. Na so…

Mkelv0106:

Bcus, before giving testimony in the presence of a Judge in the court of law, she most have taken a oath with the Bible to say nothing but the truth and tell all.
But in this case, like I said, she has every right to be vague, not everybody in the congregation is even willing to seat through the story if she start telling it.
Or haven't you seen someone that did an operation, maybe for appendicitis, and still come for Thanksgiving to give God praise and thanks for saving him/her.
I don't see why this case shud be different.
So, someone that survive an accident, just bcus they put on their seatbelt, shud thank science, and if they give their testimony and don't say it was bcus of their seatbelt they didn't go through the windscreen, but God alone delivered them, I guess that makes them hypocrite too.

You're arguing with the most confused bible "scholar" on this forum.

Comparing a person's choice of testimony or thanksgiving in Church with court proceedings?? I'm just wondering, who is the judge or prosecutor on the IVF matter?

CountVersailles:
Make two of una dey suck each other’s ti.ts there, exchanging crappy nonsense.
It doesn’t hide from the fact that your reasoning is defective. But of course, even after seeing all the good arguments, you’ll still prefer to wallow in pathetic ignorance. Na so…

Grow up, my dear.

Ask God
He will tell you

Acidosis:

The person I quoted should face her life issues. She can channel that natural and explainable wisdom to solve her problems - I don't want to mention them but she knows.

Sounds personal

Biglittlelois:



Sounds personal

Lol. Not really. I don't know her but it's quite easy to "unmask" people's thoughts online.

The op is a good case in point. He started the thread with the "intention" to learn. That wasn't exactly true. Along the line, he forgot his script when he tried to mock parents who did IVF.

There's always an ill conceived motive when people come up with this type of thread. The whole intention is to belittle a person's achievement or happiness, especially when they can't find that happiness or fulfilment in their own lives.

Acidosis:


Lol. Not really. I don't know her but it's quite easy to "unmask" people's thoughts online.

The op is a good case in point. He started the thread with the "intention" to learn. That wasn't exactly true. Along the line, he forgot his script when he tried to mock parents who did IVF.

There's always an ill conceived motive when people come up with this type of thread. The whole intention is to belittle a person's achievement or happiness, especially when they can't find that happiness or fulfilment in their own lives.

I get your point.

Biglittlelois:



I get your point.

Big Little Lois

Acidosis:


That someone decides to thank God for a 20 year journey is the last thing any sane mind should worry about.

Exactly, why would anybody be bothered that they didn't say it was IVF.

People even still do Thanksgiving for conceiving naturally after one month, few months of marriage not to even talk of years.

The pregnancy process itself its a miracle if you ask me, all conditions might be favorable and pregnancy might not occur( whether through sex , IVF, IUI whatever)

The problem is they have issues with the fact that the testifiers are attributing the glory to God, we really can't help that thinking.

They should leave the people with their Thanksgiving abeg.

ImaIma1:


Explaining this to people on this forum will be a very tall task, and those that won't get it, won't get it.

Somehow they always want to remove the God factor from IVF. They expect people to state it in their testimonies like it is not another process of conceiving.

That's why I asked in my earlier comment if they should also be stating if it was a particular sexual position they did or their frequency of sex. Because I know a couple who were placed on some medication by a doctor and told how and the frequency of sex. Should they also state it at the alter.

Is it the doctors that make the babies stay in the womb till term and come out healthy? Also, the fact that some others have failed shows that it is not absolute.

But most times, it is people that have a problem with the Christian faith or those with questionable Christian values that usually try to remove God from IVF babies.

You are right.

Mkelv0106:
1. Bcus, before giving testimony in the presence of a Judge in the court of law, she most have taken a oath with the Bible to say nothing but the truth and tell all.
But in this case, like I said, she has every right to be vague, not everybody in the congregation is even willing to seat through the story if she start telling it.
Or haven't you seen someone that did an operation, maybe for appendicitis, and still come for Thanksgiving to give God praise and thanks for saving him/her.

2. I don't see why this case shud be different.
So, someone that survive an accident, just bcus they put on their seatbelt, shud thank science, and if they give their testimony and don't say it was bcus of their seatbelt they didn't go through the windscreen, but God alone delivered them, I guess that makes them hypocrite too.

1. So you don't even know that when you go before God every day you do so because you are under an oath to speak truth always?

It never occurred to you before now that the Christian life is an oath - a Covenant/Contract/Agreement/ Bond - you take before God that you will always speak honestly before Him and men for all your days?

Imagine a one who claims to believe in God suggesting it is ok to be vague when you testify before God, but not before men.... Wow.

No wonder anything goes in your churche, right? .

2. Again.... Wow!

NoToPile:


Exactly, why would anybody be bothered that they didn't say it was IVF.

People even still do Thanksgiving for conceiving naturally after one month, few months of marriage not to even talk of years.

The pregnancy process itself its a miracle if you ask me, all conditions might be favorable and pregnancy might not occur( whether through sex , IVF, IUI whatever)

The problem is they have issues with the fact that the testifiers are attributing the glory to God, we really can't help that thinking.

They should leave the people with their Thanksgiving abeg.

Exactly. "The pregnancy process is a miracle."

Kobojunkie:
1. So you don't even know that when you go before God every day you do so because you are under an oath to speak truth always?

It never occurred to you before now that the Christian life is an oath - a Covenant/Contract/Agreement/ Bond - you take before God that you will always speak honestly before Him and men for all your days?

Imagine a one who claims to believe in God suggesting it is ok to be vague when you testify before God, but not before men.... Wow.

No wonder anything goes in your churche, right? .

2. Again.... Wow!

First of, the couple is thanking God for safe delivery and blessing them with the babies/baby, they're not thanking God for IVF.
I don't see the reason they'll come and tell the congregation how they conceived the baby, they don't own that to the congregation.

Mkelv0106:

First of, the couple is thanking God for safe delivery and blessing them with the babies/baby, they're not thanking God for IVF.
I don't see the reason they'll come and tell the congregation how they conceived the baby, they don't own that to the congregation.

Stop and think before you continue abeg!

This is about how you lot supposedly present yourselves before God Himself conveniently cloaked in dishonesty.

Kobojunkie:
Stop and think before you continue abeg!

This is about how you lot supposedly present yourselves before God Himself conveniently cloaked in dishonesty.

Nobody is been dishonest.
You people are the one looking for dishonesty, where there is non

Mkelv0106:

Nobody is been dishonest.
You people are the one looking for dishonesty, where there is non

The prayer should go like this:

"God I thank you for the children you didn't bless me with. It was IVF I did, in case you didn't know..."

As if God was unaware and was not a part of the process from the beginning. People.are funny here o.

ImaIma1:


The prayer should go like this:

"God I thank you for the children you didn't bless me with. It was IVF I did, in case you didn't know..."

As if God was unaware and was not a part of the process from the beginning. People.are funny here o.

Lol . I swear