Wilgrea7:

Mr Man. When did i ever tell you that my belief involves an intelligent designer

See, the atheist lack of memory!

You did say that to me in one of our encounters and now even this famous atheists known on Nairaland, LReed also came to the same conclusion that I did, and you still come to deny it?

Or did you not see that he too said you believe in an "intelligent being"?

So you see, no road!

Wilgrea7:

In my thread on questions about a supreme creator God, i said that from observation, whatever the cause of the universe was, seemed to me to be at least conscious, and intelligent, and after some discussions with TenQ, i agreed that it would have to be infinitely powerful.. at least from our perspective.

Other attributes.. like saying it's a single creator, or a personal one.. or even a “being" were things i said i haven't seen evidence for. ..

Not the present issue at hand which is "you claiming/denying your intelligent being. So, off Point!

Maynman:


That’s the point.
Since you want to use that logic, you must use it to the end.
Now, you are not talking about bacterias but unharmful bacterias. As an educated man are unharmful baterias found in the toilet?

Once again, you are not talking about bacterias but unharmful bacterias, get that clear.

Are ALL bacterias found in the toilet?

Is you killing ALL bacteria in your toilet Evil?

LordReed:

Only because you wrote it, I don't know if what you wrote is actual. If we are accepting your faith based on what you wrote why denying someone else's faith based on what they wrote? Can you not see how hypocritical that is?

That is the power of contact and regular conversation. You believed me because we revealed our beliefs and acted on it via our encounters.

Dtruthspeaker:


See, the atheist lack of memory!

You did say that to me in one of our encounters and now even this famous atheists known on Nairaland, LReed also came to the same conclusion that I did, and you still come to deny it?

Or did you not see that he too said you believe in an "intelligent being"?

So you see, no road!

For someone who repeatedly calls me a lying twisting snake.. you seem to be doing a fair share yourself. If you could kindly quote where i said I believe in a single intelligent being I'd be more than happy to see it.

As far as i can remember.. I've never explicitly stated my beliefs in regards to the notion of God i believe in... Until recently at least

But the thing that surprises me the most is how much you're willing to make a big deal out of it.

Whether or not I'm an atheist, agnostic, deist, pantheist or any other type of “ist" should not affect the strength of my arguments.. or your responses to them.

Face the arguments and leave this atheist thing alone.

Dtruthspeaker:


That is the power of contact and regular conversation. You believed me because we revealed our beliefs and acted on it via our encounters.

Same with Wilgrea7.

Wilgrea7:


Not my intention. Sometimes I'm in a hurry when I'm typing.. and don't bother to capitalize G's... But also, I thought God was more of a title than a name. Anyways.. point taken

Okay. But please be more careful next time.

Wilgrea7:

I think this goes back to the analogy of perception of the creator vs perception of the created.

On one hand, you have good and evil being based on the reasons/purpose of the creator

And on the other hand, you have good and bad being based on the 3 rules you listed above.

Do you realize that it is entirely possible, for the thing we consider good, based on your 3 rules.. to be considered bad if the reasons/purpose of your God by any means runs in opposition to them? Let me explain.

If your God can take any action, and those actions will always have reasons behind them, and the reasons are the final and highest criteria for what good and evil should be (as you've said), then it is entirely possible for your God to take an action which would change the definition of good and evil, and therefore make something we consider good, based on the 3 rules, to be considered bad.

As far as the 3 criteria go.. at least 2 of them .. conscience and reason, can be used to justify a number of things from our perspective. The case of the 2 adolescents are a good exmaple.

And the 3rd reason.. which are the words in scripture.. are words written based on his reasons/purpose at a point in time. Since he can take any action which will be based on reasons which must be considered the new highest authority, then his new purpose or reasons could in fact counter what was previously written in the bible.

It is like the story of the shoemaker which we both gave, where they can later decide to keep, or destroy the shoe. Whatever reason they finally agree on, becomes the criteria to judge if the subordinates or 3rd parties were right or wrong



For the sake of this discussion, I'm willing to grant the first paragraph. But i think we need to clearly define what we mean by “highest purpose".

From what I've gathered in this discussion.. the highest purpose is not some fixed thing that all actions have to measure themselves up to.

The highest purpose, is whatever reason is behind whatever actions your God takes. No matter what purpose or reason he bases his actions on, that automatically becomes the highest purpose.. and that's why I said it's arbitrary.

There is nothing arbitrary with God.
1. You must at least know that as the Creator,he has the right to do and undo with His creations.
2. God has set forth laws by which humans can live according to His will and Purpose for them. I spoke about
-Conscience
-Scripture
-Common sense.

These three lead you to just one conclusion: Goodness.

Also:
God as the Creator cannot be subject to any rule.

It is we humans who are subject to rules.

If God was arbitrary, there would not be RULES or LAWS!

TenQ:

Is you killing ALL bacteria in your toilet Evil?

Are ALL Bacteria present in my toilet?

LordReed:


Well what use is a god that can't show up in any way?

You can measure His size!
You know His location!
You estimated His weight!


Just like Jupiter: how can such be God!?
How can He be unlimited!?

Sorry bro!

TenQ:

Okay. But please be more careful next time.

There is nothing arbitrary with God.

It's funny how we can agree on almost every single point... and still come to different conclusions

1. You must at least know that as the Creator,he has the right to do and undo with His creations.

2. God has set forth laws by which humans can live according to His will and Purpose for them. I spoke about
-Conscience
-Scripture
-Common sense.

These three lead you to just one conclusion: Goodness.

I don't think you got my point. We've agreed that good and bad are dependent on the purpose/reason of God, which is the highest possible purpose. Not on the 3 criteria.. but on his purpose.

For the sake of this discussion.. i will agree that good and bad are dependent on the 3 criteria which are in turn based on the purpose/reason which he set.

And if you remember, i said that no action taken by your God can ever be seen as good or bad.. because the action will always have a reason/purpose behind it.. and that reason/purpose will automatically be the highest possible purpose.. for which good and bad derive their meaning from.

I also made reference to the shoemaker example, where we can see how the purpose or reason of the shoemaker can change from wanting to destroy the shoe, to wanting to keep it.. and it is up to the subordinates or 3rd parties to align themselves with the new “highest purpose"

The fact that the actions of your God NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE will always have a reason behind them, which will then become the new arbiter of right and wrong.. is the exact reason, why i say it's arbitrary

Also:
God as the Creator cannot be subject to any rule.

It is we humans who are subject to rules.

If God was arbitrary, there would not be RULES or LAWS!

I think you misunderstand what i meant by arbitrary. Here's what I said earlier

"Not arbitrary in the sense that they are not defined at all, but arbitrary in the sense that they HAVE to be defined in the light of whatever actions your God takes."

It means that whatever actions your God takes, as well as the reason/purpose behind them, can, and will become the new standard for good and evil.. and in that sense.. the standard for good and evil become arbitrary.. because it is dependent on the purpose/reason of your God's actions, which can literally be anything He decides

TenQ:

You can measure His size!
You know His location!
You estimated His weight!


Just like Jupiter: how can such be God!?
How can He be unlimited!?

Sorry bro!

I dunno, you are the one who says such a thing exists.

LordReed:


Same with Wilgrea7.

Same with willgee, he has already shown us his true beliefs even if his lips are lying!

Wilgrea7:


It's funny how we can agree on almost every single point... and still come to different conclusions



I don't think you got my point. We've agreed that good and bad are dependent on the purpose/reason of God, which is the highest possible purpose. Not on the 3 criteria.. but on his purpose.

For the sake of this discussion.. i will agree that good and bad are dependent on the 3 criteria which are in turn based on the purpose/reason which he set.

And if you remember, i said that no action taken by your God can ever be seen as good or bad.. because the action will always have a reason/purpose behind it.. and that reason/purpose will automatically be the highest possible purpose.. for which good and bad derive their meaning from.

I also made reference to the shoemaker example, where we can see how the purpose or reason of the shoemaker can change from wanting to destroy the shoe, to wanting to keep it.. and it is up to the subordinates or 3rd parties to align themselves with the new “highest purpose"

The fact that the actions of your God NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE will always have a reason behind them, which will then become the new arbiter of right and wrong.. is the exact reason, why i say it's arbitrary



I think you misunderstand what i meant by arbitrary. Here's what I said earlier

"Not arbitrary in the sense that they are not defined at all, but arbitrary in the sense that they HAVE to be defined in the light of whatever actions your God takes."

It means that whatever actions your God takes, as well as the reason/purpose behind them, can, and will become the new standard for good and evil.. and in that sense.. the standard for good and evil become arbitrary.. because it is dependent on the purpose/reason of your God's actions, which can literally be anything He decides

Just look by law of induction
1. God can never be WRONG in Whatever He does
2. A man Does Good whenever he aligns himself with God's will: this is called GOOD!
3. A man does Evil whenever he misaligned himself with God's will: this is called SIN/EVIL
Induction:
If a Man is good whenever he aligns himself with God's purpose, then God cannot be EVIL for if God is Evil, then man must by extension will be evil.

The Issue of Holiness is another matter entirely

Holiness has several definitions:

Merriam-Webster's definition of "holy": http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/holy


holy adjective


Definition of holy
1: exalted or worthy of complete devotion as one perfect in goodness and righteousness
2: DIVINE
for the Lord our God is holy
— Psalms 99:9 (King James Version)
3: devoted entirely to the deity or the work of the deity
a holy temple
holy prophets
4a: having a divine quality
holy love
b: venerated as or as if sacred
holy scripture
a holy relic
5—used as an intensive
this is a holy mess
he was a holy terror when he drank


More Definitions for holy
holy adjective
ho·​ly | \ ˈhō-lē \
holier; holiest
Kids Definition of holy
1: set apart for the service of God or of a divine being : SACRED
a holy temple
2: being a deity
the holy Lord God
3—used in exclamations to indicate surprise or excitement
Holy mackerel! You won!

TenQ:

Just look by law of induction
1. God can never be WRONG in Whatever He does
2. A man Does Good whenever he aligns himself with God's will: this is called GOOD!
3. A man does Evil whenever he misaligned himself with God's will: this is called SIN/EVIL
Induction:
If a Man is good whenever he aligns himself with God's purpose, then God cannot be EVIL for if God is Evil, then man must by extension will be evil.

The Issue of Holiness is another matter entirely

Holiness has several definitions:

I don't understand. I never said God was evil based on this discussion. It's something we have agreed on several times.

If God is the final and highest authority on good and evil, and whatever he does cannot be considered evil, then it can't be considered good either. It is only humans who can be considered good or evil with respect to God's criteria.

I think what you're trying to say, is that since a deviation from God's will/purpose is seen as bad, then God's purpose/will has to be perfectly good which would make God's actions, by default, good.

I disagree. And I'll explain why.

Good and bad can only be determined when compared against a standard. The reason why humans can be good or bad, is because the standard, which in this case is set by God's reason, is the highest authority against which we measure our morality.

To say that God's will or purpose is good is try to measure the standard (which is God's will) against another standard. And as you've already pointed out, God's reason/purpose is the highest possible standard. Because of that, it cannot be inherently bad or good, since there is nothing to compare it to.

As always, let me give an example.

Imagine for a second that i am the highest possible authority, and arbiter of right and wrong. Now, i pass a rule

“Do not eat after 9pm"

Anyone who eats after 9pm has done wrong. Those who eat before have done good. But to say if my law is good or not, there has to be some higher standard to compare it towards, like FDA guidelines for eating or something.

But if i am the highest possible authority, the FDA guidelines are not above me. I am above them. And if there is no higher criteria by which you can judge my law, then my law cannot be seen as good, or evil. Only those who abide by, or disobey it can be seen as such.

On the issue of Holiness, I went by the commonly held definition, that seems to imply that a God is free from all sin/wrongs.

Edit: By virtue of the inductive method, the only way to reject the conclusion is to reject one of the premises.

So in that case.. I'll attack the first one

God can never be wrong OR right in whatever he does

This argument is age long, I remember reading Bertrand Russell's take on the subject
What the Op is saying is very simple, but you know when you've held a belief all your life it's difficult to change it especially if you are egoistic

Let me use this analogy

With respect to height,we could come to a consensus that anyone below 170cm is short and between 170cm to 180cm is average while those above 180cm are tall. Now the parameter for classifying a person as short, average and tall is clear
Scenario 1 So you can say that God is tall because he is 185cm (above 180cm)

Scenario 2 But if you claim that God is tall regardless of his height then that means that there is no parameter to determine his height because whether he is 190cm,177cm,150cm,135cm,70cm,100000cm,0.0004cm he is tall. So using the term tall is arbitrary because we can't imagine what short or average is since whatever height God is is tall hence the terms "tall" "short" and "average" loose there meaning,but you can use them with respect to humans if you use God's height as the parameter, so you can say that a person whose height is above,the same or less than God's own is tall, average or short respectively.

So in like manner
If you say that God is good because there is an established definition of Good and evil and his actions always concur with the definition of good,then it's similar to scenario 1

If you equally say that whatever God does is good without reference to a parameter to measure good or evil then you can't determine what Good or evil is with respect to God,just like the instance in scenario 2, hence the term "Good", "evil" becomes arbitrary or meaningless with respect to God, but you can use it with humans defining Good as "acting according to God's will" and bad as the reverse

I don't know how simpler to break this down.

Like the Op said adjectives derive their meaning from a reference point or parameter for measurement
If you say something is hot that means there is a reference point to determine when it's hot or not
If you say something is heavy there should also be a reference point to distinguish it from a light substance

So if you say that God is good or holy, there should be a parameter to distinguish it from evil or unholy just like example I gave with height, otherwise the word good,holy,evil or unholy looses it's meaning with reference to God just the same way that if you claim that God is tall regardless of his height then he can be 1cm, 5cm,200cm,36777cm, 40000000cm and the description of his height is "tall", don't you see that the word tall looses it's meaning because you can't distinguish which is tall or average or short unlike when there are benchmarks. So in that case if you describe God as tall, the term tall becomes just an arbitrary term

Dtruthspeaker:


Same with willgee, he has already shown us his true beliefs even if his lips are lying!

Not believing your doesn't make one an atheist. Learn to appreciate that people don't believe as you do and can have a variety of theistic beliefs.

LordReed:


I dunno, you are the one who says such a thing exists.

So, whatever you can't measure doesn't exist!
What an excellent deduction and conclusion!

Wilgrea7:


I don't understand. I never said God was evil based on this discussion. It's something we have agreed on several times.

If God is the final and highest authority on good and evil, and whatever he does cannot be considered evil, then it can't be considered good either. It is only humans who can be considered good or evil with respect to God's criteria.

I think what you're trying to say, is that since a deviation from God's will/purpose is seen as bad, then God's purpose/will has to be perfectly good which would make God's actions, by default, good.

I disagree. And I'll explain why.

Good and bad can only be determined when compared against a standard. The reason why humans can be good or bad, is because the standard, which in this case is set by God's reason, is the highest authority against which we measure our morality.

To say that God's will or purpose is good is try to measure the standard (which is God's will) against another standard. And as you've already pointed out, God's reason/purpose is the highest possible standard. Because of that, it cannot be inherently bad or good, since there is nothing to compare it to.

As always, let me give an example.

Imagine for a second that i am the highest possible authority, and arbiter of right and wrong. Now, i pass a rule

“Do not eat after 9pm"

Anyone who eats after 9pm has done wrong. Those who eat before have done good. But to say if my law is good or not, there has to be some higher standard to compare it towards, like FDA guidelines for eating or something.

But if i am the highest possible authority, the FDA guidelines are not above me. I am above them. And if there is no higher criteria by which you can judge my law, then my law cannot be seen as good, or evil. Only those who abide by, or disobey it can be seen as such.

On the issue of Holiness, I went by the commonly held definition, that seems to imply that a God is free from all sin/wrongs.

Edit: By virtue of the inductive method, the only way to reject the conclusion is to reject one of the premises.

So in that case.. I'll attack the first one

God can never be wrong OR right in whatever he does

If God can never be wrong, then He is ALWAYS right in whatever He does!

If God can never be Evil, then He is ALWAYS good in whatever He does!

It is simple logic!

Hermes119:
This argument is age long, I remember reading Bertrand Russell's take on the subject
What the Op is saying is very simple, but you know when you've held a belief all your life it's difficult to change it especially if you are egoistic

Let me use this analogy

With respect to height,we could come to a consensus that anyone below 170cm is short and between 170cm to 180cm is average while those above 180cm are tall. Now the parameter for classifying a person as short, average and tall is clear
Scenario 1 So you can say that God is tall because he is 185cm (above 180cm)

Scenario 2 But if you claim that God is tall regardless of his height then that means that there is no parameter to determine his height because whether he is 190cm,177cm,150cm,135cm,70cm,100000cm,0.0004cm he is tall. So using the term tall is arbitrary because we can't imagine what short or average is since whatever height God is is tall hence the terms "tall" "short" and "average" loose there meaning,but you can use them with respect to humans if you use God's height as the parameter, so you can say that a person whose height is above,the same or less than God's own is tall, average or short respectively.

So in like manner
If you say that God is good because there is an established definition of Good and evil and his actions always concur with the definition of good,then it's similar to scenario 1

If you equally say that whatever God does is good without reference to a parameter to measure good or evil then you can't determine what Good or evil is with respect to God,just like the instance in scenario 2, hence the term "Good", "evil" becomes arbitrary or meaningless with respect to God, but you can use it with humans defining Good as "acting according to God's will" and bad as the reverse

I don't know how simpler to break this down.

Your analogies and examples are faulty.

1. You have set a standard of measurement or external parameters for God which is impossible.

2. Using your example:
Goodness or Evilness is not Quantifiable with numbers, values or ranges.

Who is more evil?
A person who murdered one person or the person who murdered two people? It is possible to say that a person who murdered 1000 people is more evil that a person who killed 2 people. Even then, the answer is still subjective?

In other words, some things are not Quantifiable.

Another example:
How do you rate or grade Love as a percentage? Is it even possible to repeatedly quantify love objectively?

Such it is with states of Goodness or Evil.

3. Lastly:
Goodness or Evilness makes sense relative to a standard that is not a measure of number or quantity!

Whose Standard?

Christians will say God the Creator's standard: as whatever aligns with His purpose is good and whatever does not align with His purpose is evil

Atheists may need to find a Standard that is not Quantifiable yet is a Reference!

TenQ:

If God can never be wrong, then He is ALWAYS right in whatever He does!

If God can never be Evil, then He is ALWAYS good in whatever He does!

It is simple logic!

How can you honestly say this after I've just explained to you why this cannot be the case?

The “logic" you're trying to use here does not work, and I've explained several times why.. and you still insist on saying the same thing?

TenQ:

If God can never be wrong, then He is ALWAYS right in whatever He does!

If God can never be Evil, then He is ALWAYS good in whatever He does!

It is simple logic!

Your deity is a tyrant. Anything he does is blindly term good by Chrestians bwahahahah

TenQ:

So, whatever you can't measure doesn't exist!
What an excellent deduction and conclusion!

There we go, jumping to unfounded conclusions, like clockwork.

LordReed:


Not believing your doesn't make one an atheist. Learn to appreciate that people don't believe as you do and can have a variety of theistic beliefs.

It is not about him not believing in my belief but that he should not come out here to lie about his beliefs because his actions will show the Truth.

Actions speaks louder and Truer than words.

And Behaving as atheists behave, is proof of belief in atheism. That is all.

Dtruthspeaker:


It is not about him not believing in my belief but that he should not come out here to lie about his beliefs because his actions will show the Truth.

Actions speaks louder and Truer than words.

And Behaving as atheists behave, is proof of belief in atheism. That is all.

At least he’s not behaving like a theist, which a Satanist is

Wilgrea7:

God can never be wrong OR right in whatever he does

This is why i often question the sanity of atheists!
How can there be a WRONG where there's no RIGHT?
Before there can be a WRONG the RIGHT must exist first. So God is always RIGHT because you can't find a better REPLACEMENT that's what HOLY (PURE) means!

Says a Theist that worships his fallen watchers in watchtower

MaxInDHouse:

This is why i often question the sanity of atheists!
How can there be a WRONG where there's no RIGHT?
Before there can be a WRONG the RIGHT must exist first. So God is always RIGHT because you can't find a better REPLACEMENT that's what HOLY (PURE) means!

You ignored the entire discussion where i explained why, went on to pick the last line, which I've already explained, and attacked it with a relatively poor attempt at a rebuttal.

But no worries.. I'll play along. In fact, I'll repeat exactly what you said, but this time, I'll replace “wrong" with "right" so you can see just how terrible your rebuttal is.

How can there be a RIGHT where there's no WRONG?
Before there can be RIGHT the WRONG must exist first. So God is always WRONG because you can't find a better REPLACEMENT that's what HOLY (PURE) means!

Now let's talk

I've said it countless times that the words “Holy" mean nothing in respect to your God.. and so does right and wrong. If he cannot be wrong, then he cannot be right either.

If wrong cannot exist with respect to your God, then neither can right. Stop trying to eat your cake and have it

Wilgrea7:


You ignored the entire discussion where i explained why, went on to pick the last line, which I've already explained, and attacked it with a relatively poor attempt at a rebuttal.

But no worries.. I'll play along. In fact, I'll repeat exactly what you said, but this time, I'll replace “wrong" with "right" so you can see just how terrible your rebuttal is.

How can there be a RIGHT where there's no WRONG?
Before there can be RIGHT the WRONG must exist first. So God is always WRONG because you can't find a better REPLACEMENT that's what HOLY (PURE) means!

Now let's talk

I've said it countless times that the words “Holy" mean nothing in respect to your God.. and so does right and wrong. If he cannot be wrong, then he cannot be right either.

If wrong cannot exist with respect to your God, then neither can right. Stop trying to eat your cake and have it

So in a society where people live the laws made are just for games of thrones shey?
Now you've proved beyond reasonable doubt that you're truly an atheist.

Even though you know the right thing means what is fair to all concerned and wrong means what can't be justified you decided to blindfold yourself to the truth.

Continue deceiving yourself!

MaxInDHouse:


So in a society where people live the laws made are just for games of thrones shey?

What??

Now you've proved beyond reasonable doubt that you're truly an atheist.

Even though you know the right thing means what is fair to all concerned and wrong means what can't be justified you decided to blindfold yourself to the truth.

Continue deceiving yourself!

It seems as though you've decided to give your own criteria by which you determine what right and wrong are.

So let me ask you a few questions

1. Is your God subject to the criteria by which you define right and wrong? If no, then he cannot be seen as either right or wrong. If yes, proceed to point 2

2. If right means things that are fair to all, and your God is subject to this definition, then whatever he does that is NOT fair to all, would be considered wrong. If you agree, proceed to point 3

3. Kindly explain how the following actions are “fair to all"

a) Choosing a group of people above all others as your chosen people
b) Sending bears to maul children for making fun of a baldy
c) Hardening Pharoah's heart, and inflicting terrible plagues on innocent Egyptians, who had nothing to do with Pharoah's decision, whose heart you also hardened
d) Commanding his chosen people to commit acts of genocide against others
e) Commanding his chosen people to stone several people to death, some of which include non-virgins, people who don't believe in him or worship another God, and people who work on the Sabbath


I look forward to your response

TenQ:

Your analogies and examples are faulty.

My analogy is meant to show you why you need a reference,comparison or parameter to define"holy" or "good" and I got think I achieved that

1. You have set a standard of measurement or external parameters for God which is impossible.

If it is impossible to define God's holiness or goodness with respect to a standard parameter or reference then his holiness or goodness looses it's meaning and becomes arbitrary
What you are saying is akin to saying you can't measure God's height, so how can we determine if he's tall or short, because any height he is is "tall" so the word tall looses it's meaning with respect to God

2. Using your example:
Goodness or Evilness is not Quantifiable with numbers, values or ranges.

Yes but it doesn't mean it can't be determined.
My argument is not that we can measure Goodness or evilness with numbers or ranges the aim of the analogy was to show you that you need a reference point or comparison to define "Good" or "holy" just the same way we need a reference point or comparison to define "tall" or "short"

Who is more evil?
A person who murdered one person or the person who murdered two people? It is possible to say that a person who murdered 1000 people is more evil that a person who killed 2 people. Even then, the answer is still subjective?

In other words, some things are not Quantifiable.

Another example:
How do you rate or grade Love as a percentage? Is it even possible to repeatedly quantify love objectively?

Such it is with states of Goodness or Evil.

I don't have an issue with what you stated above.
My analogy is simply to show you that without a reference point or comparison the word "Good","evil","holy" would not possess any meaning. EOD
If there is no way to distinguish good and evil,love or hate then those words loose there meaning. I never argued how to quantify or measure the level love or hate, I'm arguing that there has to be a way to determine its presence and distinguish one from another

3. Lastly:
Goodness or Evilness makes sense relative to a standard that is not a measure of number or quantity!

Whose Standard?

Christians will say God the Creator's standard: as whatever aligns with His purpose is good and whatever does not align with His purpose is evil

Atheists may need to find a Standard that is not Quantifiable yet is a Reference!

Very good point
How about another religion uses there God as the standard of morality and what there God demands or deems good is to kill infidels, what would you make of that
What if a Christian kills a witch and tells you he received direct instruction from God to do so, remember the bible said "suffer not a witch to live" and on an occasion when Israel was praying to God and the sone of a priest took a woman to the back of the temple to fornicate someone killed both and God was appeased,so this isn't something beyond the purview of Christianity besides you can't proof the person didn't get the instructions from God
You see why we can't use religion as the basis to inform our morality

Wilgrea7:


How can you honestly say this after I've just explained to you why this cannot be the case?

The “logic" you're trying to use here does not work, and I've explained several times why.. and you still insist on saying the same thing?

I swear
After all the analogies he still doesn't get it

If God can be 2inches, 4inches, 20inches, 200000inches,2million inches ....... and still be regarded as tall, then the word "tall" looses it's meaning since there is no height that God can possess that would be described as short,very short,very tall, average
He argued that Good and bad can't be measured with numbers but of course that is not my argument, my argument was that if there is no reference or basis for comparison then the word "holy" or "good" loses its meaning since no matter what God does it would still be referred to as "good" just the same way that with respect to height, whatever height he is is regarded as tall so "tall" looses it's meaning

Why he can't get this point is beyond me

Wilgrea7:

1. Is your God subject to the criteria by which you define right and wrong? If no, then he cannot be seen as either right or wrong. If yes, proceed to point 2

YES! That's why Abraham challenged Him saying:
It is unthinkable that you would act in this manner by putting the righteous man to death with the wicked one so that the outcome for the righteous man and the wicked is the same! It is unthinkable of you. Will the Judge of all the earth not do what is right?” Genesis 18:25

Wilgrea7:

2. If right means things that are fair to all, and your God is subject to this definition, then whatever he does that is NOT fair to all, would be considered wrong. If you agree, proceed to point 3

3. Kindly explain how the following actions are “fair to all"
a) Choosing a group of people above all others as your chosen people
b) Sending bears to maul children for making fun of a baldy
c) Hardening Pharoah's heart, and inflicting terrible plagues on innocent Egyptians, who had nothing to do with Pharoah's decision, whose heart you also hardened
d) Commanding his chosen people to commit acts of genocide against others
e) Commanding his chosen people to stone several people to death, some of which include non-virgins, people who don't believe in him or worship another God, and people who work on the Sabbath
I look forward to your response

I have explained all these time and time again but your atheistic mindset keep blurring your insight.
God wants to establish sanity on planet earth and it must start from somewhere, so far He has given warnings ahead of punishment for WRONGDOINGS then He is ALWAYS RIGHT!