Ochelyko1:
1. My friend no man can question God ok. If God from the beginning said be fruitful and multiply then you should be fruitful and multiply. No that what you choose to be or do is in your own hands. If you wish to Eunuchs then be but don't condemned those who have children. Also if you choose to have children don't condemned those who are Eunuchs.

2. For Christ has set us free only don't use the freedom for the occasion of sin. As for the kingdom of God, we all are the children of God whether Eunuchs or not, whether married or not but we all shall be like the Angels. The Spirit have bless marriage right from the beginning so my friend we are to be fruitful and multiply says the Lord.

1. God isn't the one being questioned here, you are. God is the one who created these Eunuchs , as He informed you by Himself. So obviously, what He said to men in the beginning wasn't a mandate but a choice He gave to men from the beginning.

2. Enough with the non-sequiturs abeg and please answer the questions asked Abeg.

The same God who gave the command in the beginning also created some men and women Eunuchs from birth, allowed some to become Eunuchs in this life, and permitted others to live as Eunuchs for the sake of His Kingdom - Matthew 19 vs 11 - 12. And He is the very same that, when man fell, cursed childbearing, making it a process that is of the world of men, and not of His Kingdom - Genesis 3 vs 16. So again, my question to you, and this following your very own claim from earlier...

Ochelyko1:
Whatever we desire must proceed from the Spirit. Not just allowing our flesh to control us to do certain things.

... why would "the Spirit" need for you to bear children when God never required you to such for His sake or His Kingdom for that matter?

Kobojunkie:
1. God isn't the one being questioned here, you are. God is the one who created these Eunuchs , as He informed you by Himself. So obviously, what He said to men in the beginning wasn't a mandate but a choice He gave to men from the beginning.

2. Enough with the non-sequiturs abeg and please answer the questions asked Abeg.

The same God who gave the command in the beginning also created some men and women Eunuchs from birth, allowed some to become Eunuchs in this life, and permitted others to live as Eunuchs for the sake of His Kingdom - Matthew 19 vs 11 - 12. And He is the very same that, when man fell, cursed childbearing, making it a process that is of the world of men, and not of His Kingdom - Genesis 3 vs 16. So again, my question to you, and this following your very own claim from earlier...
... why would "the Spirit" need for you to bear children when God never required you to such for His sake or His Kingdom for that matter?

My friend there was never a time God said any man should be Eunuchs! If you have that in your Bible bring it out let's see. From the beginning it was be fruitful and multiply. And that's why the Bible says that for these reason a man will leave his father and mother and clieve with his wife and they become one FLESH.

God may that to be a command. But that of Eunuchs was not a command.

Jesus making such statement in that Matthew u quoted has to do with a prophetic statement

What brought that statement was because of divorce in marriage, why I said it was prophetic because Brother Paul for the sake of the Kingdom of heaven refuse to marry, so that it won't hinder him from preaching the kingdom of God. So he do that by his own choice no one did.

Also those born Eunuchs from birth doesn't mean God made them so! Because accordingly to the plan of God for all man kind is for us to be married and be fruitful and multiply.

But now we have been born again, born of the Spirit of God so is no longer us that is living but Christ that is living inside of us. So what ever Christ wants from us that's what we will do. Now be led by the spirit of God one can choose to be a Eunuchs for the kingdom sake also been led by the spirit of God one can also get married and have children. Which ever way nothing stop us from attending to the kingdom of God matters.

raphretle:
So supposing an unmarried woman decides to artificially inseminate herself because she is approaching menopause.. Then she gets pregnant.
Is it a sin??
Note: Fornication is not involved.
What would be the stand of the church on such issues?

To be honest, it's a selfish thing to do. The child will have a very hard life. It's better for that woman to adopt a child

Ochelyko1:
1. My friend there was never a time God said any man should be Eunuchs! If you have that in your Bible bring it out let's see. From the beginning it was be fruitful and multiply. And that's why the Bible says that for these reason a man will leave his father and mother and clieve with his wife and they become one FLESH.

2. God may that to be a command. But that of Eunuchs was not a command. Jesus making such statement in that Matthew u quoted has to do with a prophetic statement

What brought that statement was because of divorce in marriage, why I said it was prophetic because Brother Paul for the sake of the Kingdom of heaven refuse to marry, so that it won't hinder him from preaching the kingdom of God. So he do that by his own choice no one did. Also those born Eunuchs from birth doesn't mean God made them so! Because accordingly to the plan of God for all man kind is for us to be married and be fruitful and multiply. But now we have been born again, born of the Spirit of God so is no longer us that is living but Christ that is living inside of us. So what ever Christ wants from us that's what we will do. Now be led by the spirit of God one can choose to be a Eunuchs for the kingdom sake also been led by the spirit of God one can also get married and have children. Which ever way nothing stop us from attending to the kingdom of God matters.

WOW.... so basically you believe Jesus Christ lied in the following...

11 He answered, “This statement is true for some, but not for everyone—only for those who have been given this gift.
12 For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.” - Matthew 19 vs 12

What you are insinuating is that Jesus Christ did not mean that God created Eunuchs nor did God make some Eunuchs in this life. God instead created all to produce and so all must produce, according to you?

Kobojunkie:
WOW.... so basically you believe Jesus Christ lied in the following...
What you are insinuating is that Jesus Christ did not mean that God created Eunuchs nor did God make some Eunuchs in this life. God instead created all to produce and so all must produce, according to you?

You have failed to show me where God said he created some to be Eunuchs. Show me first in the scripture then before u can start saying what Jesus Christ said.

What was written in the Bible was about divorce, and I also told you that what Jesus Christ said was a prophetic statement. So I don't know if u understand what it means for something to be prophetic? Search through the scriptures and get this things right.

From the beginning God created male and female and bless them to be fruitful and multiply not to be Eunuchs. So those who choose to be did so by their own will.

Ochelyko1:
1. You have failed to show me where God said he created some to be Eunuchs. Show me first in the scripture then before u can start saying what Jesus Christ said.

2. What was written in the Bible was about divorce, and I also told you that what Jesus Christ said was a prophetic statement. So I don't know if u understand what it means for something to be prophetic? Search through the scriptures and get this things right.

3. From the beginning God created male and female and bless them to be fruitful and multiply not to be Eunuchs. So those who choose to be did so by their own will.

1. According to Jesus Christ, His teachings are directly from God Himself.

16. Jesus answered, “What I teach is not my own. My teaching comes from the one who sent me.
17. People who really want to do what God wants will know that my teaching comes from God. They will know that this teaching is not my own.
18. If I taught my own ideas, I would just be trying to get honor for myself. But if I am trying to bring honor to the one who sent me, I can be trusted. Anyone doing that is not going to lie. - John 7 vs 16 - 18

So, it should then follow that since Jesus Christ speaks that which is God's - He is the Word of God after all - and since God is the one and only creator, that God is the one who spoke even the Words recorded in the passage below through Jesus Christ.

11 He answered, “This statement is true for some, but not for everyone—only for those who have been given this gift.
12 For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.” - Matthew 19 vs 12

Or do you believe instead that Jesus Christ lied?

2. I'm sorry, what has that written about divorce to do with the context of this discussion? Also, what "prophetic" claim are you suddenly making here of divorce when Jesus Christ never said anything of the such to begin with?

3. For the umpteenth time, did God lie through Jesus Christ when He said that Some were created Eunuchs from their birth?

Kobojunkie:
1. According to Jesus Christ, His teachings are directly from God Himself.
So, it should then follow that since Jesus Christ speaks that which is God's - He is the Word of God after all - and since God is the one and only creator, that God is the one who spoke even the Words recorded in the passage below through Jesus Christ.
Or do you believe instead that Jesus Christ lied?

My friend Jesus didnt say a new thing by what he said concerning been Eunuchs. Now read this translations

Matthew 19:12 There are different reasons why some men cannot marry. Some men were born without the ability to become fathers. Others were made that way later in life by other people. And some men have given up marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. But the person who can marry should accept this teaching about marriage.”

Now from this translations Jesus was given reasons why some people don't marry.

The disciples made a statement that made Jesus to speak prophetically of those who is not marry because they are born that way from birth, and I know of some who refuse to marry not because of God Kingdom sake but they just feel like because they were born with it.

Some are made not to marry by men, look at the priests of the Catholic Church they were not allow to marry, not order by God but by men!

Why some they decide to catraste themselves or rather refuse to marry simply because of kingdom of God not that God is stoping them to marry Eg brother Paul.

So when u hear Jesus last statement that who can receive this should receive. It means is something that has never been done before in old.

Because even the priest of old do marry and have children.

So please for better understanding read other translations thank u.

Ochelyko1:
1. So when u hear Jesus last statement that who can receive this should receive. It means is something that has never been done before in old. Because even the priest of old do marry and have children. So please for better understanding read other translations thank u.

Stop running all over the place with the ramblings....

11 He answered, “This statement is true for some, but not for everyone—only for those who have been given this gift.
12 For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.” - Matthew 19 vs 12

The statement above was made by Jesus Christ, the one who said all He teaches is that which the Father directly feeds through Him. And according to the statement above, God created some Eunuchs from birth. Or who else creates those who are born?

Did Jesus Christ lie in His declaration above or not?

Kobojunkie:
Stop running all over the place with the ramblings....
The statement above was made by Jesus Christ, the one who said all He teaches is that which the Father directly feeds through Him. And according to the statement above, God created some Eunuchs from birth. Or who else creates those who are born?

Did Jesus Christ lie in His declaration above or not?

God created all human beings but how they came to life is the responsibility of the Father and the mother.

Some where born blind, some where born deaf and dumb so are you saying God is responsible for that too?

Some where born with deformation and so some where born with terrible sickness and diseases was it God who brought all those this to them?

Just as God has given us a way of salvation it is left for you to chose whether u want to be save or not everything is in your hand.

So Jesus teaches came from God and it seems you can't differentiate a parable or prophetic word from Jesus teaches.

So sometimes you take word literally.

But one thing I know is that God created man to be fruitful and multiply.

Ochelyko1:
God created all human beings but how they came to life is the responsibility of the Father and the mother. Some where born blind, some where born deaf and dumb so are you saying God is responsible for that too? Some where born with deformation and so some where born with terrible sickness and diseases was it God who brought all those this to them? Just as God has given us a way of salvation it is left for you to chose whether u want to be save or not everything is in your hand. So Jesus teaches came from God and it seems you can't differentiate a parable or prophetic word from Jesus teaches. So sometimes you take word literally. But one thing I know is that God created man to be fruitful and multiply.

Again.. enough of the story telling...

11 He answered, “This statement is true for some, but not for everyone—only for those who have been given this gift.
12 For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.” - Matthew 19 vs 12

Did Jesus Christ lie when He proclaimed that some were created from birth as Eunuchs hence without the ability to procreate meaning that they cannot bear children? Yes OR No?

You claim all must procreate - that procreation is some sort of mandate for all men from God - but here is Jesus Christ clearly telling you that not all were made to procreate and rather than directly accept or deny... you choose to beat about the bush thinking this will somehow go away... how?

Kobojunkie:
Again.. enough of the story telling...
Did Jesus Christ lie when He proclaimed that some were created from birth as Eunuchs hence without the ability to procreate meaning that they cannot bear children? Yes OR No?

Answer my question first now bro. Just answer yes or no then I will give u ur answer. Those born blind, deaf and dumb was it God that made them that way?

Kobojunkie:
Again.. enough of the story telling...
Did Jesus Christ lie when He proclaimed that some were created from birth as Eunuchs hence without the ability to procreate meaning that they cannot bear children? Yes OR No?

You claim all must procreate - that procreation is some sort of mandate for all men from God - but here is Jesus Christ clearly telling you that not all were made to procreate and rather than directly accept or deny... you choose to beat about the bush thinking this will somehow go away... how?

Am waiting for your response please do answer me so that I can answer yours ok.

Ochelyko1:
Answer my question first now bro. Just answer yes or no then I will give u ur answer. Those born blind, deaf and dumb was it God that made them that way?

Did God mandate sight, hearing, or speech too?

Focus on the discussion at hand. You can create another thread to discuss other things if you chose. Again..

11 He answered, “This statement is true for some, but not for everyone—only for those who have been given this gift.
12 For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.” - Matthew 19 vs 12

Did Jesus Christ lie when He proclaimed that some were created from birth as Eunuchs hence without the ability to procreate meaning that they cannot bear children? Yes OR No?

You claim all must procreate - that procreation is some sort of mandate for all men from God - but here is Jesus Christ clearly telling you that not all were made to procreate and rather than directly accept or deny... you choose to beat about the bush thinking this will somehow go away... how?

Kobojunkie:
Did God mandate sight, hearing, or speech too?

Focus on the discussion at hand. You can create another thread to discuss other things if you chose. Again..

Did Jesus Christ lie when He proclaimed that some were created from birth as Eunuchs hence without the ability to procreate meaning that they cannot bear children? Yes OR No?

You claim all must procreate - that procreation is some sort of mandate for all men from God - but here is Jesus Christ clearly telling you that not all were made to procreate and rather than directly accept or deny... you choose to beat about the bush thinking this will somehow go away... how?

My friend I can see u don't have any answer to give so if u can't answer mine then I can't answer urs. We are talking about birth here. God created man and said man should be fruitful and multiply. God has already put everything in place right from the beginning. So what ever comes out from there till now has to do with the individual.

But since u don't have a answer to my question then I live u to ur faith

Ochelyko1:
My friend I can see u don't have any answer to give so if u can't answer mine then I can't answer urs. We are talking about birth here. God created man and said man should be fruitful and multiply. God has already put everything in place right from the beginning. So what ever comes out from there till now has to do with the individual.

But since u don't have a answer to my question then I live u to ur faith

I take it then by your numerous attempts at explaining away that clearly declared by Jesus Christ here - first you claimed His Words were not of God, then you claimed that somehow Jesus Christ spoke instead of an idea outside of the hands of God - that you don't believe in Jesus Christ let alone God, and so there is no point in going further with you on this.

Kobojunkie:
I take it then by your numerous attempts at explaining away that clearly declared by Jesus Christ here - first you claimed His Words were not of God, then you claimed that somehow Jesus Christ spoke instead of an idea outside of the hands of God - that you don't believe in Jesus Christ let alone God, and so there is no point in going further with you on this.

That's your own story bro, Jesus Christ word are spirit and life. So if you misquote what Jesus said that's ur own cup. But am still in the interest concerning the topic matter before you start your argument of Eunuchs that the lady has not commit any sins what so ever for getting pregnant through what she did.

She is not an Eunuchs and her womb is fertile to receive baby.

I know of those who are Eunuchs by birth and by man will and also by their own self.

Everyone have their own choice to make.

Ochelyko1:


That's your own story bro, Jesus Christ word are spirit and life. So if you misquote what Jesus said that's ur own cup. But am still in the interest concerning the topic matter before you start your argument of Eunuchs that the lady has not commit any sins what so ever for getting pregnant through what she did.

She is not an Eunuchs and her womb is fertile to receive baby.

I know of those who are Eunuchs by birth and by man will and also by their own self.

Everyone have their own choice to make.

Again....I take it then by your numerous attempts at explaining away that clearly declared by Jesus Christ here - first you claimed His Words were not of God, then you claimed that somehow Jesus Christ spoke instead of an idea outside of the hands of God - that you don't believe in Jesus Christ let alone God, and so there is no point in going further with you on this.

Kobojunkie:
Again....I take it then by your numerous attempts at explaining away that clearly declared by Jesus Christ here - first you claimed His Words were not of God, then you claimed that somehow Jesus Christ spoke instead of an idea outside of the hands of God - that you don't believe in Jesus Christ let alone God, and so there is no point in going further with you on this.

Thank you and have a nice night ok bye bye�

Do what you got to do and stop using church or scripture as an excuse.

Your life should not be define by church.

raphretle:
So supposing an unmarried woman decides to artificially inseminate herself because she is approaching menopause.. Then she gets pregnant.
Is it a sin??
Note: Fornication is not involved.
What would be the stand of the church on such issues?

For those of you demanding biblical explanations for condemnation of artificial insemination, can you conversely prove to us where in the bible it is was permitted?
Can you even prove under whatever guise it is permitted?

Artificial insemination cannot be used as a tool to override the sin of sexual immorality. The only permissible or recognized mode of conception ordained by God is between a man and a woman, anything other than that is a violation of the human body, and therefore a sin.
For our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. 1Corinthians 6:19

Note that, it was only after the creation of man and woman that God charged them to fruitful, and multiply and replenish the earth, and subdue it. Gen. 1:28. So if God had desired man to reproduce through any other means he would not have created woman.

And to all those mocking the conception of Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit, know ye that God forgives all sins, but the sin against the Holy Spirit is not forgiven. Matthew 12:31

Kobojunkie:
It isn't sin since God did not decree that childbearing only take place via intercourse. What is sexual sin is sexual lust - Matthew 5 vs 27 - 28 - the sin of adultery.

What are the other ways God decreed childbearing?

Mike008:
What are the other ways God decreed childbearing?

In Jesus Christ? God didn't decree childbearing. For Pete's sake consider Jesus Christ Himself didn't bear a child at all. If God had infact decreed childbearing wouldn't Jesus Christ have been considered a sinner for flouting such a law?