pilgrim.1:

Mary is a channel of grace but not the  source of grace. . .

If Pilgrim is living a life of Christian virtue, I hope that she too thinks of himself as a channel of grace. God works in and through us by the power of His Spirit. Thus, we are all “channels" of that grace, bearing witness to Christ and bringing people to the truth. This is why Paul calls us “God’s co-workers" (1 Cor. 3:9). As channels of grace, work together with God in building up His kingdom.

How do you explain your tenses between '("she" too thinks of ("himself"'?!? It's just simply another fantastic plagiarism from Salza :

[list]"If Mr. Blackaby is living a life of Christian virtue, I hope that he too thinks of himself as a channel of grace. God works in and through us by the power of His Spirit. Thus, we are all “channels" of that grace, bearing witness to Christ and bringing people to the truth. This is why Paul calls us “God’s co-workers" (1 Cor. 3:9). The word for “co-workers" (Greek, sunergoi) literally means “synergists." This means we, as channels of grace, work together with God in building up His kingdom[/list]

Yeepa  . Out in the open!
Oga Lawyer, you for try small at least to change all the pronouns now; you no learn lesson well from Plagiarism 101? Abi you dey argue for that class no come pay attention? There are always options; present your own arguments. Or if you aint got 'em, better yet, acknowledge your sources.

n.b. - when lawyer comes back, he must to apologize to pilgrim o, i believe it was she himself that exposed her or is it him?

_{i've laughed too much for one day on nairaland - gotta run}

ricadelide:

OK, sidelines here i come

Done with him for now. . I'm asked not to crack any bones of his, . . so!  

_{I'm just waiting for his next "smart" move - perhaps another plagiarized exercise not so consonant and as easy as John Salza!!}

ricadelide:

Yeepa . Out in the open!
Oga Lawyer, you for try small at least to change all the pronouns now; you no learn lesson well from Plagiarism 101? Abi you dey argue for that class no come pay attention?

Hehehe. . .

Even if he changed the pronouns and tenses, I go still catch am gbam! It's that's easy! If I had not read so many Catholic apologists (on the net and in books, periodicals), I would not have known he was copping out someone else's material! To make matters worse, he tried to dress them as his own. I no fit laugh!!

ricadelide:

There are always options; present your own arguments. Or if you aint got 'em, better yet, acknowledge your sources.

Dem no dey hear word! Na my own I dey jeje when dem begin play wayo. Next time, dem go just let me waka far from them.

ricadelide:

n.b. - when lawyer comes back, he must to apologize to pilgrim o, i believe it was she himself that exposed her or is it him?

Oh myyyy!! I go burst with laff for here O!

ricadelide:

i've laughed too much for one day on nairaland - gotta run

The best comedy I've had in a long run! Enjoy abeg. . . me sef go soon close for today!

@ pilgrim_1
i can see u are enjoying all this, being giving so much attention and all that. You sure are one wierd freak, i must say! i dont think theres any point arguing or trying to prove a single point to u or anyone who thinks otherwise of the CATHOLIC doctrine. u r just obsessed a fanatic i must say.

and if u must know "The true church of God is not within walls but inside us"

@ kulex2k1,

kulex2k1:

i can see u are enjoying all this, being giving so much attention and all that. You sure are one wierd freak, i must say! i don't think theres any point arguing or trying to prove a single point to u or anyone who thinks otherwise of the CATHOLIC doctrine. you're just obsessed a fanatic i must say.

Actually, I must commend you for being really mild - "one wierd freak . . . obsessed a fanatic" - I like that! Speaks so well of how friendly you present yourself.

However, I've said a few times that I was done with this thread much earlier; but you guys would not let pilgrim.1 be! I've also cautioned that the greatest mistake anyone of you guys would ever make on Nairaland is to address me the way you would not be able to contain in return. _{(No, don't expect to be whipped just now. . I usually take my time).}

Besides, I'm not getting "attention" - I don't seek it, don't need it, don't advertize for it, don't even solicit it in anyway. The only thing I would pay any price to get from people is Biblical truth presented objectively. That's all. If you've got 'em, share 'em. If not, no worries - as the rents won't change on account of that.

Sorry if what I've said or posted hurts you - I didn't mean for it to come across that way to you.

But wait. . where did you read me being a freak for pointing out the sinister exercise of lawyer plagiarizing someone's material and dressing it up as his own - to present himself as John Salza?

Please, please and please - let's just be civil, honest, and objective. As I often say to those who push the wrong buttons, you haven't met the "real pilgrim.1" if you tend to be duplicitous. Convince me in an objective manner; or failing that, just save the caterwauls.

kulex2k1:

and if u must know "The true church of God is not within walls but inside us"

I know simply what the Bible says: Christians are the Church - the Temple in whom the Spirit of God dwells (1 Cor. 3:16). You can't be the "church" and at the same time be "inside" you!

Cheers.

Having perused through this site, I have observed that the controversy is becoming uglier and uglier. Lets cast our differences aside, and beg God to guide us in His Righteousness Paths for as long as He gives us life. All this argument that "Mine is better than yours", even when, we humans have fallen short on the Glory of God smacks of self-righteouness. Elitisim in Catholic Church (in my opinion) reached a high note when the pope remarked that only Catholic Church or so, was the only true Church of God. I had deluded myself into believing that there was only one true Church of God, and traversed some Churches, in quest for Salvation. Let this deceit stop!. Let this arguement stop too. Lets put everything into perspective, and ask ourselves this question, "Does this argument bring Glory to God"?

P/S: I am not perfect.

It's that's easy! If I had not read so many Catholic apologists (on the net and in books, periodicals),

@pilgrim

This was probably the only thing that caught my curiousity after reading your reply and i have to confess, this is the summary of everything you have said and i was ill prepared for this. You had a very long headstart and i just popped in to give a vague defence without research. Maybe i would have taken a whole decade out of my life to peruse the internet and plagiarise more, read the whole library of congress and search for all periodicals so i don't look intellectually lazy as it relates to the issues of the bible and the catholic bull aka vatican bull. ( not my fault honestly. I attended ile iwe meta comprehensive grammer school, school 4 mushin, the school adjacent your pastor's own and my english research teacher didn't encourage us enough, hence my history of my poor attempt at plagiarism. I just wish i attended your pastors school, school 5,  i know you had better research teachers. Teacher Okoye should be proud of him.)

So from all conclusions as  ricadelide your new found sidekick rightly stated, i have to apologize to you and gracefully accept that your the winner of this one sided debate and i wholesomely now accept you pilgrim now as my lord  or lady ( before you accuse my poor knowledge of the borrowed English language again) and saviour from now on because, honestly i don't know of any one on this planet and beyond that is so well versed in the bible apart from you and since your my new fountain of knowledge, i have no choice but to humbly drop my catholic faith and follow the church of pilgrim wherever you go! ( So no more dumb defences, no more plagiarising any of my former catholic brethen works, no more direct personal insults, no more quoting of my saviour's threads, in short no more of any thing that would enrage my new messiah any more)


Am sorry former catholic brethens for being an embarrasment to the struggle and i have been brutally bruised and nursing it as we speak because it's not easy dealing with my new found lady and saviour who has destroyed, devoured and torn to shreds every living or dead catholic apologist defence/ idol worshippers born of flesh and in spirit right from the days the days of Moses down to me. There is no need to defend the faith any more than but for me to see beyond the true light that she is actually the one we have been waiting for all our lives.

I have chosen to accept her as my Personal Lady and Saviour, because she has all the attributes of the "chosen one" such as:

1. The gift of ridicule ( I am really excited about this one if she passes it down to me because am still an apperentice)

2.The ability to know the bible cover to cover in minutes without even looking at the printed words

3. The ability to destroy everything and everyone that comes her way as long as it doesn't even have a whimper of intellegence to her or she feels threatened by it by a mile even if she is sitting down jejely without any wahala. ( I now know why they say make person leave mad man for where he they siddon jejely unless if e bite you, i no know no de o!) 

4. the ability to fan the embers of sensitive and provocative issues that are better of left in the coolers for the original authors to clarify themselves. ( catholics, we too believe sef! Shey na even thing them tell us we go believe? We be zombie ni? Anyway we thank the new messiah pilgrim for opening our eyes and na only im own we must hear! any other addition or supporters club na counterfeit.)

5. being the sole messiah of her word of faith

6. knowing everything about bull the vatican has said right from the first pope down to the future pope in 2077.

( Catholics una don come again! We go de talk say pope clement of 1765 talk this , pope sylvester of 1876 talk that, meanwhile we no go believe person wey follow Moses go school. Person wey be food prefect that time wey de send moses go fetch water for their boarding school that time! Una wan tell me say Pope of 1543, know pass our new messiah? Common let's stop that rubbish and listen to experience and old age. You know how many prophets she don survive reach now? So if she says the vatican is yaning bull, you better believe that!)

The list could go on and on, but in summary, my saviour has won and i should congratulate her and crown her the queen of all that is wise and intellectual  and beg on my knees to forgive me and make me one of her apostles. Can't you see people, she is the messiah  we have all being waiting for in a younger body! Jesus did it 2000 years ago to bring down all those who were idol worshippers and now on naira land, a new improved messiah has appeared and has given us more than concrete proof to show she's the chosen one. ( How could i have thought of worshiping, praying and bowing down to Mary, while you were around all this while, silly me), please pope and the catholic church, don't confuse me again o! i now have better offers, threads and letters to read from my new found personal lady and saviour!

I adore you pilgrim, o queen of all queens and lady of all ladies who is without an iota of sin. You are my way, the truth and the light. I shall follow no other gods apart from you from now on. I will worship, praise and glorify you from this moment on and pray to you, for you to grant me the grace to allow me into your kingdom of intelligence and wisdom. I renounce all my other faiths and beliefs and would follow only you and you alone, because you have made me see the light. ( i need no mediatrix anymore because i have found you pilgrim!)

Please blessed Pilgrim ( do you have any lesser name that i should call you? because your name sounds too powerful for a lowly subject like me to call ) to grant me just a fraction of the inherent powers of the fountain of wisdom which  you soley possess, so that i can also go and destroy other faiths that you don't believe in and any other thing that doesnt make sense to you. ( my opinions don't matter any more, it's all yours, yours and yours!!! no more vatican bull, no more mary talk! just me being your personal zombie)

Dear saviour, compromise is not an option for me when i go out to tackle other Mary worshippers because my new god ( pilgrim) is a jealous god and  i want to go further than you in destroying catholic apologists, to show you that your the one true messiah and eye opener that i have been waiting for all my life so as to show you that am worthy of a place in your esteemed kingdom. And to show how serious i am, every thread or topic that you either create or post from this moment, i'll be there with you, so as  to give you moral support, praise you and worship you. I have abandoned all i have to do and will follow you and you alone.

Thank you for making me see the light and i hope to see you in all your future threads where you would proclaim your all knowing powerful words. No more flexing of biblical intelligence with my saviour, because now that i know you more, and the great powers you possess, it would be blasphemous to speak when you speak. I'll rather spend my remaining days praise worshipping you and all that you stand for. Nothing you do is evil in my eye from now on. Your blameless,

meanwhile off topic, was Moses bia bia actually white? in boarding house, did you actually tell him to do angle ninety when he was looking at you somehow? Please do tell. You can't afford to hide this one from your fountain of knowledge. Your not that selfish, please share

Was i so crazy that i had to disturb the messiah when she was jejely sitting on her own after she had destroyed catholic apologists far far greater than me that couldnt defend the catholic church who had stood up to her from time immemorial? Shouldn't i have heeded her advice when she told me about catholic apologists that were still nursing their bruises after she had ripped their hearts out with her stoic and extremely tight water proof defence against catholicism and the vatican bull? ( shame on all of us for even thinking of attempting it to engage her majesty)

I am so sorry my new personal commander of my soul and captain of my mind, i should have heeded that earlier warning and please forgive me all my sins because you posses the power to do so and bring me to your fold, so i can follow the words of you the messiah, that has revealed herself on nairaland in a feminine form. Aren't we all a lucky bunch to have you here? Please make fun of me and mock me till eternity  O merciful one full of divine grace bestowed on only you, so that i would consider it as my healing tithe towards you so as to make me worthy to enter your kindom.

So till we meet again on this thread or on other threads my holy messiah pilgrim, i will be agressively searching for more catholic apologists to destroy to offer to you as a sacrifice so as to show my total devotion to the doctrines you preach. ( would you prefer them being headless?) I'll do anything you command. You should know better! Just say the word!

One more thing! I was supposed to go to my catholic church today for mass, but instead, i'll follow your powerful words divinely sent to me through this blessed thread and i will thus organize my personal sit at home protest and when the other catholic apologists come  looking for me and ask my why i didn't come, i'll print all your defences and hand it over to them. And when they ask why am i doing this, i'll bark back and tell them haven't they heard of You? The great knower of all that is false and true !and If not, they must be living in caves. Aint that great my saviour? I am already practicing what you preach and serving you already!

I earnestly await your spiritually filled intellectually inspired biblical words of faith which is only known to you, 2.your esteemed and humilating reply and 3. further directives on how to be a strong catholic basher  O! holy and revered catholic basher or all bashers. It would be a pleasure and extremely humbling to me, once i see one of my extremely long, unworthy, unintellectual  and windy statements above being quoted in your reply. It would show that am already in the favour of my lady and saviour eye.

Please don't forget to teach me another exotic English word. I am terribly poor in my use of semantics and lexicons hence making me a very intellectually lazy solicitor, so i am hoping to improve my grammar and ignorance since your now my new english teacher. ( I no go lie, i stabbed all my English and intellectually stimulating biblical courses in the university including but not limited to plagiarism 101 in law school, hence my poor imitation of John salza's work! Heck i would have paid more attention in school! Thanks for catching me unless i wont have been able to take you as my personal lady and saviour.) ( @ least my exam malpratice days are over, now that i know that my saviour didn't cheat once in school or giraffe right from kindergarten to her professor emeritus days in cairo in 1532 ), how blameless can my new saviour be without sin. Your the man, sorry woman!, ma bad!

Anyway, i had a list of over 500 catholic apologists i wanted to plagiarize but since you have destroyed all of them before including the bull of their children and children's children, i would have been wasting my time. Thanks for the tip that you have read all all the vatican bull before and ripped them to shreds, way to go my saviour ! Meanwhile i have a small request to ask you great one. How old are you right now? 100, 200, 500 or your still representing your pre david age of  2000 years +? because you have been doing this for a long time and only someone this great, old and wise would have such biblical knowledge and skill to destroy catholic apologists this easily, that's why i must follow you,  the most high in my eyes right now (No shame in admitting the obvious) .

I especially enjoy the word "bloviates" alot ( i havent had the time to check my dictionary but it does sound like a new disease spreading in the u.k! ,  forgive my unwaiving ignorance again, i can't help it, but am trying to learn, i swear passionately to you!) and through you, am compiling an encarta  of your famed words and parables including the yoruba quirky quips that you have used on this thread so far. ( Please be kind to show me other thesis that you wrote right from the days of Moses your junior for primary school till date. I'll greatly cherish it and later present it to the national museum for safe keeping). I intend to use it in the next Oshodi / Ajegule scrabble open competition next month. Wish me luck my new English professor emeritus genius.

off topic again, no offence, just a question. How easy was it for you to write with feathered pens on the bark of trees back then? Guess you have come a long way till the days of the internet? Who was the first idol worshipper you actually dealt with? Damn, this is a no brainner, you were there when moses broke the tablet because the isrealites were building molten images? You saw the first molten bull!, aha! no wonder you kept that phrase all these centuries to your self to bash more idol worshippers.

It's a pleasure knowing you. I'll keep in touch as always, don't worry if you don't see me online when your online, i'll be busy looking for more catholic apologist s to destroy in your name. We gotta book a date and time to be together, so i can present my sacrifice to you, tata bloviate, ( i hope i used it correctly in this sentence) 


Your's sincerely

The newly destroyed catholic apologist and new Pilgrim convert

@pilgrim

U see ur handwork?

I have no doubt if they tell me you are the antichrist jezebel

Are you? pilgrim

I am just asking

LMAO, what sort of psychobabble BS is this?

Na so the ting pain you reach? So because of lil' ol' Pilgrim, na so u save moni, buy 3hrs ticket for cybercafé, carry Thesaurus for one hand, kon dey talk d one wey pass ya mouth? Omo, sofri o, no go wound o, efrebor o! Wash!

Ogbeni, go and sit down if you don't have anything tangible to say. Kilo n gbe ton gbin? ehen, you were caught red-handed stealing off another person's work, you kon dey yarn cock and bull. Abi na lie i lie?  So, what are you hyperventilating for?

Let me be more blunt here, if you simply can't argue from the Bible, then sharrap. No long ting.

I'm personally sick and tired of all the stupid games. Claiming braggin' rights for the RCC, asking dumb questions about which church she goes to. exactly what the schmuck are we talking about here? The church/name alone or the doctrines that the church spreads? If it's the latter (which affects members), shouldn't the point of reference and last authority come from the Bible? Stay dere dey do siddon look like maga online dem, no be only "what is your Church?", na "what is your Shursh". . .

@Wordsmith

Na so the ting pain you reach? So because of little' ol' Pilgrim, na so u save moni, buy 3hrs ticket for cybercafé, carry Thesaurus for one hand, kon dey talk d one wey pass ya mouth? Omo, sofri o, no go wound o, efrebor o! Wash!

Are you in a cybercafe now? Are you that poor? Internet connection at home is now very cheap. I'll advice you to start saving your cigar and gulder money now, so that by christmas, you could finally join the club of those that browse from the comfort of their bedrooms. Secondly, were the words a little bit too difficult for you to understand? I see your name is wordsmith, but your a poor imitation of what the word stands for. If you want to mix yoruba and pidgin english with your great command of english, try and put it in a different perspective to make it readable, because, it took me 5 minutes to figure out that sentence.

Ogbeni, go and sit down if you don't have anything tangible to say. Kilo n gbe ton gbin? ehen, you were caught red-handed stealing off another person's work, you kon dey yarn cock and bull. Abi na lie i lie? So, what are you hyperventilating for?

Once again, are you conversing in English or yoruba? because i cant decipher what your saying! I guess the yoruba threads are closed! can't you wait till monday when they open? Seriously you can't really be a wordsmith.

Let me be more blunt here, if you simply can't argue from the Bible, then sharrap. No long ting.

Is the bible an act of the national assembly that is meant to be debated or is it meant for you to assimilate it in your heart personally? Well thanks for exposing your self as a zealot. Is that what you do when you go to church? Argue about all the verses in the bible? well please give me an invite to your church, i love to see you, your pastor and congregation throw chairs at each other all in the attempt to know whether the forbidden fruit was either a mango, apple or agbalumo. I can already picture the name of your church. "The Great Pentecostal Bible Arguing church" , motto, " come with your chairs, guns, arrows and yoruba dictionary if you ever want to win a bible debate here!, what a shmuck!

I'm personally sick and tired of all the stupid games

What games? The games the great bible arguing church plays with you? Are you giving up that easily? If yes, sharraaap!

Claiming braggin' rights for the RCC

RCC? Really Crazy Chimpanzee or Rebels Castigating Castro? Because am finding it had to phantom what the acronym stands for? Could you be more specific next time? Your supposed to be a wordsmith not an abbreviation expert!

what the schmuck are we talking about here? The church/name alone or the doctrines that the church spreads?

When a "church" spreads it's doctrine, does the church grab you by the balls to accept it by force? What you don't like, you leave and ignore. Does the doctrine affect how you eat, go to school, Bleep your girlfriend or what? Is there a church patrol unit that arrests and forces you to accept a doctrine that doesn't augur well with you? I think your a closet RCC wannabe!, Haaaa ( excuse my pun )

Stay dere dey do siddon look like maga online them

O my God! Your a yahoo yahoo boy! I wish i had read this statement earlier on before replying you. No wonder the vague references to cybercafe and 3hours ticket earlier on? Am really disappointed in you. With all the time you spend in a cafe trying to dupe people, you still dont have any money to get connected at home. You sit in cafes all day wasting value time that you could use to get an education to help you to at least become a wordsmith someday. Was it you that sent that scam mail to my box that your family abroad is about to be deported and you need help to look for a place in ajegunle for them to settle down properly? Is that really you? It's a pleasure finally meeting you. Would you take a cheque or a cash sum of N700 to at least buy one block so as to begin the foundation laying exercise? I'll be glad to be of assistance to you. Buzz me again when when you finally get to the roof, let's say in 2034 or thereabout

Talk about being a WORDSMITH Schmuck!

*sigh* i knew it, this is going to take some time. On the other hand. . . . .

*calling Yaba left, Yes, can i speak to the Doc? Yes, i think you have another one on your hands. What?! You can't keep him? He's a mental Harzard to them inhouse loonies? Jesus! That's a first! Never heard that before! I know dammit, i know he roleplays a lot, thinks he's a lawyer. Location? Ojuelegba underbridge with a few panti, he calls that his "Chambers", alongside the Refuse Dumb. Of course we shall proceed with extra caution. What dosage of Prozacs? WHAT??!! What do you mean a gallon and a club for extreme measures? Nobody said anything about whacking him over the head. Yes i know, he's shit in the flesh but that's not enough reason to whack him. . . . . . .well maybe enough reason. Don't forget the iron clad strait jackets Doc. Just in case, i know a trader that deals in egba tashere, comes quite handy with the kumo in subduing the mofo. Ok, doc, thanks for taking your time to listen. Have a good day



*puts the phone down*

don't worry loon. . .err lawyer, your proz. . .err sorry son, your remedy would arrive soon

*I wasn't going to post anything on here until at least the weekend, but i just had to show up*

Bros the Law,
How far? I read a few lines of your post (sorry i'm usually too lazy to read long posts) and i just had to say there's no need to get all so demure all of a sudden. It's nice you piped down a little from your earlier posts but obviously you're still missing the whole point.

I notice that you seem to think this that this debate is all about 'my church versus your church' (and hence you rightfully felt the need to rise up to the defence of the organization you've identified with all these years).  However, you're wrong. Nobody is out here to preach a particular church, or even to tear down any particular church (at least not for me) but to reach out to individuals with the Truth. I believe it is possible to have people within the RCC who have a relationship with the Lord (although personally i'd really wonder what they're still doing there, sorry to say) and on the converse, there are people who identify themselves as 'protestants' or even 'pentecostals' who are still living in their sinful habits. Like someone said, there's no denomination in heaven. Hence it can only be an individual issue. However, it definitely helps if one is not in a place (either catholic or protestant) where he's being decieved. And, with the same vigour with which i'd condemn anti- or non-biblical practices in the RCC, i'd do so with any other organization identifying itself with the name of Christ. Like i indicated earlier, i used to be a member of the RCC myself and it really greives my heart when i see innocent and generally good folk being led astray all in the name of church. I remember arguing a lot with my friends back in high school and always thinking i was right and all, until God began to open my eyes. And till date i still appreciate the spirit of my friends who engaged me back then cause i was sincerely wrong.

The problem with having debates such as this (a reason which makes me often shrug from them, especially those involving my atheist friends,) is their potential to be seen as mere intellectual 'who's-a-better-arguer' contests, rather than being seen as an opportunity to actually learn and grow. The person that wins an argument is not necessarily the 'right' person, i've 'won' many arguments which i later found out that my assertions were wrong. So its not about winning or losing. I remember arguing with my friends back in high school that it was a lie that Solomon had hundreds of wives (to my questioning mind it seemed ludicrous - and being a catholic, and sorry to say this, i didn't really read the bible then). Eventually they led me to the passage and showed it to me and i had to shut up. There's nothing tedious in admitting one was wrong; even here I (and many others) have done so. It doesn't have to be done in a patronizing manner either.

I'm personally a very busy person (as i guess you and everyone here is) and many of us are mature, professional people. Like normal conversations, we could employ banter to lessen the tone a little, however the weight and merit of the issues still remain. My goal for coming here (and i believe the goal of many here), besides just as a form of relaxation and chit-chatting, is to actually help others with the little help that i've received in my own life one way or the other. Specifically, help as regards getting people to actually have a RELATIONSHIP with the Lord, to get people to seek something beyond the superficial routine of mere religion, unto attaining the life-transforming power that can only be gotten through (knowledge of) the Word. I really do hope that goal is still acheived in this particular case.

Anyways, just had to set things in their proper perspective so we don't lose track. If you want to discuss more, press on. If you have any questions you don't want to post on here, you can shoot me a mail. Cheers all

nb - sorry if i came across too comical in my previous posts; it wasn't intended

@Wordsmith,

Wordsmith:

I'm personally sick and tired of all the stupid games. Claiming braggin' rights for the RCC, asking dumb questions about which church she goes to. exactly what the schmuck are we talking about here? The church/name alone or the doctrines that the church spreads? If it's the latter (which affects members), shouldn't the point of reference and last authority come from the Bible?

Lol. . . actually, I almost fell for that trap to oblige them their request in telling the name of my church; but I thought the better of it! I realized early enough that the greatest issue with our Catholic friends is that they have a huge difficulty with reading God's WORD for themselves, so that it's easier for the Vatican to continue misleading many souls. When people are challenged deeply enough to find out the truth of God's Word for themselves, we won't even need to preach long and hard on these things.

Enjoyed your humour as well. Blessings.

@ricadelide,

ricadelide:

I notice that you seem to think this that this debate is all about 'my church versus your church' (and hence you rightfully felt the need to rise up to the defence of the organization you've identified with all these years). However, you're wrong. Nobody is out here to preach a particular church, or even to tear down any particular church (at least not for me) but to reach out to individuals with the Truth.

Words on marble there! Infact, you've covered almost everything I would've wanted to include in mine - but the lines above just neatly sum it all up for me.

Cheers.

Ndipe:

Having perused through this site, I have observed that the controversy is becoming uglier and uglier. Lets cast our differences aside, and beg God to guide us in His Righteousness Paths for as long as He gives us life.

@ Ndipe,

Your advice is noted; but I’m sorry to say that if we simply go by that, the deceit that you decry will continue unabated.

One thing we should be clear about is that exchange of ugly words in arguments do not help anyone – and I’ve tried to do my bit several times in various threads cautioning that people be civil in addressing others on the Forum. If they cannot heed good caution, they should try to not invite what they can’t stand from pilgrim.1. Perhaps my inputs in this thread over the weekend did not come across in the desired feeling of camaraderie; and I apologise.

How is anyone going to discern Biblical “truths” if we’re asked to close the Scriptures and pretend that Christianity is just about living life as we so please, as long as we all “believe in Jesus”? Do Protestants not believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour before the Pope scowled to denounce them as “other Christians not true Churches”? That kind of duplicity should be questioned – and that is what our Catholic friends don’t like to address. Such denunciations are not the best of ways for the Vatican to promote ‘unity’; and our being placid in the face of such denouncements does not help us either.

Truth be told – and told vigorously - though sadly it may hurt our Catholic friends. As far as Biblical integrity is concerned, the simple way to ‘cast our differences aside’ is to remove the indefensible traditions which people (Catholic or Protestants) have built around the divine WORD. That is why in my debates, I refute the appeal to other things that detracts from Scripture.

If anyone has something to share from Scripture, they would be confident to do so and save the detractions. Have our Catholic friends offered anything of substance from the Bible?

I do hope this does not come across to you in bad taste. Rather, it was needful to clear the air of any misconceptions that people might have, while we seek to make further inputs as necessary.

Cheers.

@smile4kenn,

smile4kenn:

@pilgrim

You see your handwork?

Wetin I do? I only kept my promise to deliver the remains to Poseidon!

smile4kenn:

I have no doubt if they tell me you are the antichrist jezebel

Are you? pilgrim

I am just asking

Lol. . . No, I'm nothing of the sort. And again, that was quite cordial. . . I appreciate!

@lawyer,

lawyer:

Am sorry former catholic brethens for being an embarrasment to the struggle and i have been brutally bruised and nursing it as we speak because it's not easy dealing with my new found lady and saviour who has destroyed, devoured and torn to shreds every living or dead catholic apologist defence/ idol worshippers born of flesh and in spirit right from the days the days of Moses down to me.
. . .

The newly destroyed catholic apologist and new Pilgrim convert

Lol. . . lawyer!

Okay, I owe you an unreserved apology (although I quite enjoyed your humour).

It wasn't my intention to be that rigorous with you; and I'd have to acknowledge my failure in having been somewhat forward. My one aim in having come back to the thread was to clear the air on the often pandered misconceptions of some indefensible tenets of Catholicism. Alas! There might have been more amiable ways to do so - but I'm learning everyday that methods and delivery are not to be sacrificed at the altar of scholarship.

In any case, your quote above highlights the one reason why I consistently declined to oblige the name of my denomination (even though I've made clear my position is Protestant and enjoy fellowship in my local church). I'm not seeking to make any converts to myself or group. Rather, my heart-cry has always been to challenge people to a re-discovery of the Lordship of Jesus Christ with Biblical integrity. I trust that any seeker of His truth will find Him - and He will complete His work in the hearts of as many as desire to know His WORD.

Many blessings, and I encourage you to seek only Jesus Christ. He still loves you.

@ blacksmith ***sorry, i mean @goldsmith****sorry again, @ swordsmith*** abeg no vex, the smith thing they confuse me, ***@ wordsmith ( finally!)

calling Yaba left

I was laughing so hard when i was reading your open air auditioning for "faze kolomental" remix video, then it occured to me that you weren't auditioning  as a want to be actor but, it's a true life experience your bringing out in public.

1. You make references to *yaba left* and i had to ask someone what's yaba left? and the person told me it's a mental home in yaba, *eyah* poor child, what did they do to you when you were a guest there? , is that the reason they had to transfer you to the US for further mental checkups?, Was it really that bad, that you can't forget your excruciating time there?, What a shame! Don't worry when they transfer you back there next month when your visa expires, things would change. I promise you my friend. As soon as am done with this thread, i'll be calling the yaba local govt chairman to look into the atrocities done to you. Take heart my friend, it's going to be ok!

Yes, can i speak to the Doc?

Haaaaaaaaa! I can't laugh anymore, am falling off my chair, reading this line! So instead of keeping valuable numbers in your phone directory,  * yaba left doctors* have a special place in your heart. How long have you been communicating with him? I thought the doctors in your new mental home, were qualified enough to deal with your
Schizophrenic  delusions, that you had to place a long distant call to your personal kolo doctor in *yaba left* to help you solve your problem. I see your case is beyond the capabilities of mordern science to make you sane again. Abeg when you come back next month, try visit bar beach, your type plenty for there!

Yes, i think you have another one on your hands. What?! You can't keep him? He's a mental Harzard to them inhouse loonies? Jesus! That's a first! Never heard that before! I know dammit, i know he roleplays a lot, thinks he's a lawyer. Location? Ojuelegba underbridge with a few panti, he calls that his "Chambers", alongside the Refuse Dumb. Of course we shall proceed with extra caution. What dosage of Prozacs? WHAT??!! What do you mean a gallon and a club for extreme measures? Nobody said anything about whacking him over the head. Yes i know, he's shit in the flesh but that's not enough reason to whack him. . . . . . .well maybe enough reason. Don't forget the iron clad strait jackets Doc. Just in case, i know a trader that deals in egba tashere, comes quite handy with the kumo in subduing the mofo. Ok, doc, thanks for taking your time to listen. Have a good day

Haaaaaaaa! your freaking hilarious do you know that! Where you once a discredited actor in nollywood before they transfered you to yaba left? I can picture the scene in your one room mental hilton, dramatizing and rehearsing these lines, scratching your head, holding your shoes, thinking it's a phone and talking to your bed, while the doctors behind the windows are shaking their heads in disgust, thinking of a higher dosage of, what did you call it again? *prozacs* ( i hope i got the spelling right, i wont want to offend you for mispelling your drugs) to give you.

What a shame! Well i hope the doctors know what they are doing, giving you a computer to browse. If it's part of the mental illness program to help you get well, i'll support it. ( Too many Nigerian lunatics in the US. Anything thing to help reduce the number would be greatly appreciated )

Anyway, we'll be there next month at the airport to recieve you with an ambulance fit enough for his kolo royal loonyness. If you need any other thing before your return, please state it on this thread, so as to make your homecoming stay in *yaba left* more pleasurable this time!

@ pilgrim

We 're cool now! No offence taken, on the contrary i did enjoy the back and forth banters. Shame it has to stop but the good news is that i have a new muppet to wind up = wordsmith, lol, Hope i can now ask for the licence to plagiarize your words like "bloviates" to use on wordsmith, haaaaaaa!

lawyer:

@ pilgrim

We 're cool now! No offence taken, on the contrary i did enjoy the back and forth banters. Shame it has to stop but the good news is that i have a new muppet to wind up = wordsmith, lol, Hope i can now ask for the licence to plagiarize your words like "bloviates" to use on wordsmith, haaaaaaa!

Lol. . . indeed we're cool now (until dem begin start their wahala again). I do apolgise for any 'smart' moves that could have been saved on my part. Nonetheless, your humour was classic (a few of my collegues were in stitches with laughter).

Anyhow, the "bloviates" are patented. Try something like camaraderie and bandolerismo - two extremes for which you could easily be sued _{(especially for test-driving them on Wordsmith's hard-drive)!}

Enjoy for now - I'm outa this thread for a good while. Cheers.

@ lawyer :

US for medical checkups? dude, what are you ranting about? That was the most lame, dumbest line from the overall lame and dumb reply you posted up there. If you call that a comeback, then i'm dissapointed. Jesus, you can imagine - you, an Aro candidate had to ask a fellow "colleague" what Yaba left is! Omo, that level of pscyhosis done pass the one dem dey show for Nkan Be o. You go be hotcake for dem Werepe for Yaba left.

PS: How your chamber's for  Ojuelegba underbridge dey?

omo a no fit laugh for office. dem think say i dey kolo!!

Rolling on the ground already. This is so much relief after the heated arguments. Enjoying you guys honestly.

@ wordsmith,

Me thinkest I knoweth thou!


Thou art indeed a jester!


@ lawyer,

Maybe you too should a Nigerian chamber for jokes and rights to be entertained

mrpataki:

@ wordsmith,

Me thinkest I knoweth thou!


Thou art indeed a jester!

Lol. . . we have more poets here than those trained in the Humanities Departments of our universities for naija! Correctest thou not?

@ Pilgrim1,

I no be lawyer oh wey dey use Shakespeare verbatims to dey hide plagiarism. If I were to be caught with plagiarism here, na my end for school be that.

God Bless you abndantly.

Lol. . . mrpataki - but I wasn't connecting you with lawyer naw! I was commendest thy post only, abi?

Blessings.

pilgrim.1:

Lol. . . mrpataki - but I wasn't connecting you with lawyer naw! I was commendest thy post only, abi?

Blessings.

lol. . . . . . . How shouldest thy humble servant knowest thou the heartmind of his heart mistress. Tis later in the evening ere the heavenly realms visitest thy humble servant with thy holy blessed vision for deciphering.

Many Blessings once again.

Oh?  Was is it all about heated arguments coming to an end?
We all must understand that it is not just the issue about argument for or against a doctrine or a church.  To accept error in the name of different "biblical interpretations" is a only snare by the enemy of mankind to still ensalve many.

I think that the Cahtolic Church which was responsioble enough to acknowldege the mistakes of the dark ages, should further show more responsility by examining all doctrines that were introduced during those dark ages as some of them might be "dark doctrines".  Some of us are yet to understand how the mother of Christ, became "the Gate of Heaven".  We are yet to understand how she became the one to "deliver us from all evil" .  

The following were lines from the Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and some of us are yet to understand how they are so.  

Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary[i][/i]
Virgin most powerful, (than God?)
Virgin most merciful,  (than God?)
Virgin most faithful,   (than God?)
Seat of wisdom,  (I thought the Heavenly Father is the Seat of Wisodm)
Cause of our joy, (so who said that the joy of the Lord is our strength?)
Singular vessel of devotion, (devotion such as this, must be to the Lord himself)
Tower of David, (I thought the Lord is the Tower?)
Ark of the Covenant, (which of the Covenants, new or old?)
Gate of Heaven, (but the Lord declares, " I am the Way, the Truth and Life, no body comes unto the Father except by me."also He says, " am the door of the sheep"
Morning star, (The Lord declares, "I am the bright and Morning star"
Health of the sick, (but the Lord took our infirmities)
Refuge of sinners, (please who died for sinners?)
Comforter of the afflicted, (I thought the Lord promised us the Comforter?)
Help of Christians, (And what is the work of the Holy spirit?)
Queen conceived without Original Sin, (The scriptures decalred all under sin with exception of one: the Christ)
Queen assumed into Heaven, (well, at least, they acknowledged it was an assumption.)

Consider this Hymn,

O COME TO THE THRONE OF GRACE

(verse 1)  O come to the throne of grace! (When Heb 4:16 talked about throne of grace, we know where it is)
              O come to the heart most pure! (MOST? Really?)
               To Mary, our hope of life, (Our hope of life? )
               In whom salvation is sure.  (In other words, all that seek Salvation must go to her?)

Ch.    O Queen of the Rosary , hail!  
        Immaculate Mother of grace!
        O pray for us, help us today,
        Thou hope for the human race. (Yet we know that Christ Jesus is the hope for the human race).

Verse 2:  Immaculate Heart, we kneel
              To consecrate all to thee, (When the scriptures commanded to consecrate our lives, it also told us to whom)
              The present, its pain and joy,
              The future, all it may be.

Verse 3: The Rosary, white and gold,
              We take from thy virgin hand;
              A pledge of the power of God, (Yet we know that Power of God is by His Spirit through His Word)
              To heal and strengthen our land.

Verse 4: O Mother of Sorrows, hail!
             We mourn for our evil done
             O soften our selfish hearts
             And lead us back to thy Son. (Yet the Lord says, "No man can come to me, except he Father draws Him"

Or Consider this prayer:

**********************************************************************************
We fly to thy patronage

We fly to thy patronage, O holy Mother of God; (while using this title, we must bare in mind that she is not His mother in the sense that she is older than God or the source of her Son’s divinity. She had to worship the Son too, she was among the disciples who obeyed the commandments of Christ)

despise not our petitions in our necessities,  
but deliver us always from all dangers, (just as in Our Lords Prayer)
O glorious and blessed Virgin.  Amen.

*****************************************************************************************

This gospel is about Christ Jesus.  His death, Ressurection and Ascention.  To honour the Mother of Christ is not a bad idea, but yet the above words are not words of honour.  They are words of worship.  There is no other name given among men by which we must be saved except the name of Jesus.  

I am sure that Peter did not sanction Rosery, neither did he say it.  It was introduced in the "dark ages" and like I said, some od those things that came in during the dark ages are nothing but "dark" doctrines.  They have a form of godliness, but beneat is nothing but idolatory.  This is not about argument nor is it out of hatred for Catholics.  

As for leaving people with their beliefs, there would had been no need for Jesus and His disciples to had preached at all; He would not had commanded us to make disciples of all nations; everybody would had been left with their beliefs.  This idea of leaving people with their beliefs (as even Eckankar teaches) looks so humble and pius, yet we know that we commanded to preach this gospel which is summarised by John 3 :16

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."  (NKJV)

And 1 John 5 : 12 - 13 summarises thus;
 "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."  (NKJV)

Blessed be the Name of the Lord and God bless you all. Amen.

www_pastor:

Oh? Was is it all about heated arguments coming to an end?
We all must understand that it is not just the issue about argument for or against a doctrine or a church. To accept error in the name of different "biblical interpretations" is a only snare by the enemy of mankind to still ensalve many.

I like that. That's why I'm sitting back for a while to let others weigh in on the topic. Bless.

@ mrpataks,

o thou knowest me, sir pataks. It is i, gbade writing words of prose and jest beneath a name given to me.

Where has thy ass been? Thou taketh long leave of this land of naira, a sojourn most prolonged.

pilgrim.1:

I like that. That's why I'm sitting back for a while to let others weigh in on the topic. Bless.

O daughter of zion plentous in grace, thou shalt conceive and bear a name and call it NEPOIS