davidylan:

Pathetic. that wasnt my thought process at all.
Going by the OP's article, it is clear that his idea of "religion" is either christianity or islam. Well the white man and arabs were far more advanced than us at a time when they had this same religion that misinformed id[i]i[/i]ots like you claim breeds poverty with us. We were still in poverty long before the white man's religion came to us so what was our fundamental problem? It certainly wasnt religion.

OP didn't say christianity and islam, he said religion; put your reading glasses on. I'm not sure if you're aware but there are quite a few other religions besides those two (about 6000 or so, I think). Some even consider the many african traditional religions to be examples of religion. What was your point again?

Evil Brain:


I wouldn't bother if I were you. Arguing with davidylan is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retar.ded!

I really need to start taking my own advice.

the last time they asked me to have more children i said NO. I am not having more of my kind. I am black and we are such a forked up race.

Religion will hasten our demise. We are so far gone we yeye waste of the earth. I love us but we are doomed.

lol.Indeed true! Many people in Nigeria can not believe this and would label you outrightly as blaphameous or sinner.

I was born into a catholic family-with no strict religious indoctrination until my family changed to a pentecostal church which i wont mention. The change came when i was in between 9-12yrs old. From early 90s came the spell of pentecostalism which i see as nonsense.  Religious leaders usurp the rights of people with indoctrination and fear. Common sense is out of the question -even people with degrees bow to the so called charismatic leaders and baba, mama or daddy as they are called.

First point, before colonialism all we had were traditional religions which the European tagged as a sin and crime. Our forefathers then bowed to the new doctrine and religion through force and craftiness. Sooner or later -due to poverty and instability - people started believing in churches and not the system. Imagine if Naija dey play football or anything people even resolve to praying- which is illogical. God or whatever has nothing to do with football, if he has i guess we would have bagged medals and cups.

So the crux of the whole indoctrination by churches in Nigeria- is a simple equation of fear+ignorance+emotional mind play+power= indoctrination.

For instance a man with no job or struggling would one day receive a sweet coated mouthed preacher by his door - the next thing is an emotional play of words- the man maybe does not receive the message at first. But due to environmental craze almost everyone falling for the emotional play- he looks around ok, if Baba Asa received this thing and he now lives a better life- he is prosperous or ok. I would. From there starts a new introduction to another society. A society which preaches that demons and devils would hunt u if you commit sin or do something irrationally. At the end of the day the individual is emerged in doctrines and beliefs that are irrational.

For instance where does it stay in the so called bible that there are blood sucking demons? Through media works(videos, books, gossips) and literatures - the average man believes that any accident on the way his due to the devil, lol (what is the condition of our roads in nigeria- in what state of mind was the driver while driving) or other factors are not considered. All seems to go the religious way.

Those who have not travelled out of the country or are born into this beliefs and doctrines  see only one world . if you have lived in europe or America- you know people hardly go to church. Many care about only social functions and activities than one cock bull miracle bullshit. Religious people reading this would think what a nonsense. But then if people who introduced the religion no longer care about it- why does a man enslaved, indoctrinated believes he even knows better than his masters.

All we have in Nigeria is borrowed- from the name nigeria-to the language and religion are all borrowed. So why think we know more than the people where the religion originated. Of course some crazy and indoctrinated fellow might start quoting we are at the end of the world. Of which i reply there is nothing rational about the so called doctrines and divisions in Nigeria borrowed religion. My perspective is religion is a weapon of oppression and domination- a means to which people get power, money which in ordinary society they would never have heard. The so called calls to ministry from oyedepo, kumuyi, adeboye and co- ask your self what were they doing before-some lecturers in universities but now they have much power-followership and respect than a common politician.


So if your senses are wide awake and still logical instead of been rolled deep in religious nonsense- you see that religion is a means to an end. So many churches, mosques and yet corruption and underdevelopment. The answers to Nigerian problem surely does not stand in religious indoctrination.

So a man living a borrowed language +religion+ political legacy= total indoctrination with no base to think at all.

I live in Europe- no one cares here about religion here as opposed to Nigerians who simply generalize because they saw some religious programs on cable tv or internet. I laugh at times ---i rarely see anyone doing night vigil here or crusades - this is because simply the priorities are different. YOu work ur ass of here to make a living not spend 255 days of the year in the church thinking manna would fall from heaven.

So to the guy who started the thread you are simply right- Africans need to rethink their course and stop been deceived by the new colonialism offered by religion and sweet talkers. Like it started before- the Europeans invaded with force-used religion to sedate and conquer and did exploit- so is the new situation with many pentecostal churches who boast of mega rich money and status at the expense of their humble followers- so it was during colonialism. Welcome to the new colonialism or Religious Kolomentality .

cgift:

Its apparent its second nature to you to use derogatroy words on people. na u sabi

But i think the guy makes some sense - i could draw this portion out of his block of letters  where he said " i guess what i am trying to say is that religion is not what is messing up the black man, religion is what is keeping us from being wiped out completely of the planet. "

We still need religion (in te broader sense of it) to keep hope alive, for the inspiration, and the feeling of absolute possibilities and " limitlessness". Religion gives the black man hope, and the most pathetic condition to have as a homosapien, is to be hopeless or forlorn

You must have been reading Pastor Ahimolowo's book on the "Man of Colour" I guess. Me i dont believe all that story of melanin bla bla bla.I only believe we are where we are because we have allowed selfishness, lack of self control, greed, and lack of brotherly love and avarice to becloud our judgement.

Thumbs up Godman.

if you think the state of black men all over the world today is due to strictly selfishness, lack of self control, greed, lack of brotherly love and avarice, then my friend you have another think coming. its bigger forces at play here. this is some heavy stuff going on in the background. like i said, us black people are not going to make it economically or otherwise in this lifetime so long as we exist in a world run by 'you know who'. but we can save our souls. we can save our destiny. thats all we can do now. but if by some miracle (which i doubt) all 1 billion of black-dom on planet earth decide to all collectively see the light ? only till then will we stand a chance of overturning this tide of unabashed and ferocious barrage of suffering, strife, pain and iniquity. no black nation on earth will make headways in this life-time. its not a curse. it is prophesy. so folks need to quit whining about how nigeria is messed up. its supposed to be messed up. we are living out a prophesy. only we as a collective can stem the tide. all 1 billion black people on earth.

U guys have to be careful most especially the writer of the article. He is an atheist and very proud of being one but I dont totally agree with his points. He sounded intelligent but atheists can also be as silly as a religious person if measured from the opposite angle. If u completely detach religion from ppl, they become mad, irrational and immoral, less controllable and if u asked me that why should they be controlled? then I would ask u to tell me whether there are no strong systems in place (even stronger than any in Nigeria) in the developed world (where they are less religious) to control their citizens despite the fact that they have all they want, why are they still irrational? [/b]Power is nothing without control.

In the west, Women, after having gone through the best of education would just detach from the same family that made her who she is and start professional prostitution. It is not out of depression, not out of poverty, she is just happy with it, a means of enjoying FREEDOM which this writer is advocating for. U can see the extent at which ppl can be immoral when there is too much freedom. [b]Children smoking hemps and using drugs and it is because no one can stop them, not the society, not even their parents. An atheistic mentality sees nothing wrong in anything as long as something makes u feel good, then go ahead and do it. It is the reason why U'd see more and more ppl on the streets, with several piercings on their face, and tongue looking satanic. What about the proliferation of same sex? I wont delve so much into that.

This guy should have written an article about how Nigerians should believe less in miracle while they remain religious and use their brains to think of solutions to their problems and solve it practically and then learn to be satisfied with whatever result they get from the solution. Not the I-must-build-a-house-next-year mentality when u earn less than N100k this year how possible? Such person would steal and call it miracle. The reason for this mentality is what there preacher tells them. Many churches in Nigeria start the new year with ridiculous slogans, 20?? "YOUR YEAR OF ASCENSION" "YOUR YEAR OF MIRACLE" "YOUR YEAR OF ABUNDANCE" etc. year after year, they manufacture slogans and unfortunately, every single member from church to church would believe that they will breakthrough that year. Looking at the laws of nature, is it possible?

I'd continue using Q&A

Q But would u blame them?
A[/b]of course yes, why are they so silly to believe these clergies each time they tell them craps,
[b]Q But they are adults why would they just believe craps
A Because they have been made to believ that thy can not just pick up these books buy themselves and comprehend unless u have a level of holy spirit residing in u and it is only the clergies that has the required level to comprehend
Q What do the clergies stand to gain by telling ppl that?
A So that ppl can easily be manipulated and dogmatised. This the reason why no listener would challenge the claims of any preacher as he preaches. They have been conditioned to believe that everything they say is right even if u have a different understanding of the same verse in the same book u have in your hand.

So to the writer of this article, hating religion in this case is like hating the game instead of the players.

see the lord is a great thinker. he has set the whole world up in such a way that you will be corrected by your own iniquity. Fall through the cracks of obedience into disobedience and there are a million sharks waiting to chew you up and make your life a miserable existence. i suspect he foresaw how badasssssss we would turn-out and then he set things up so that some rebel angels will be cast to earth to chew up the disobedient ones, and then he created the crack in gondwanaland and made the planets drift off and new races of people emerge who will be the puppets of the evil angels used to correct us and make our lives miserable should we slip through the moral crack. all conjectures of course, no absolutes, but it does say in the good book that you will be corrected by your iniquity.hmmmmmmmm

@anvaller- that a white chick decided to go prostituting does not add up to the fact she needs a conditioning or emotional juicy preaching to regulate her behaviour- she saw simply prostitution as a way of life and followed without been compelled. Thats one thing about free will-----so who tells you even though in naija people are more religious we do not have social decadence.

Religion does only have the function of generating spirals of doctrines patterned after individual idiosyncracy rather than biblical doctrines.

Every church in nigeria for instance has its own rules -doctrines to which the individual is conditioned. There is a difference between conditioning and indoctrination. <For instance - some religious worshippers in nigeria believe if you fornicate -you would not prosper or go forward in life- that could be simply conditioning- packaged with fear and optimal belief system that if you do have sex you would be an outcast in the church society or church world- and most followers rarely try it to disbunk the indoctrination behind the belief.

Smoking hemp or anything has nothing to do with religion. I could be religious and still smoke behind the doors -with no one catching me- so free will is important rather than been cornered or indoctrinated not to do- the secret to real freedom is doing or trying it out! I mean not like the way conservative preachers in nigeria preach with fear and condemnation wrapped around the package of total submission.

I think you yourself despite leaving in Netherlands still hold to the belief. Tatoo or piercings does not determine who you would be or where you would be- It simply is a free will decision and those who do the tatoo or piercing have reasons just like people who visit churches in nigeria or those who still practice traditional religion.

So your question of morality or been chaste is useless. And what the hell is satanic in tatoo or piercing-do people with them behave rationally or are they demon possessed.

You live in a free society- open your eyes and wake up from the conditioning and indoctrination or stories of yemoja and demons you had in Africa.-.lol

buzugee:

I dont defile my flesh with that. but back in my unenlightened days i have been known to be a tom cat papa was a rolling stone back in the day. now i am a one woman man. like my boy fiddy cent said 'i gotta make it to heaven, for going through hell' this atlanta gangbanger lol

Darn, that makes you the second simpleton on this thread,
I said you need to get laid, not mate with anything you see on the street in Agege

Well little wonder,after all bus conductors are not known for their smarts, anyways

davidylan:

you were mindlessly responding to a valid quote from frosbel. If you think all religion has given you is strife and intolerance then you may as well move over to Russia or North korea . . . they've got all your fellow atheist brothers.

When you have no idea what devout jews have invented in the last decade then i'm wont to consider you another misinformed noise-making nitwit. But of course . . . ad hominems is the last refuge of the brainless.

Or Israel about 40% of the population is atheist, no?. . . .

kabukabu:

Darn, that makes you the second simpleton on this thread, 
I said you need to get laid, not mate with anything you see on the street in Agege

Well little wonder,after all bus conductors are not known for their smarts, anyways

i know what you meant foo. all am saying is 'getting laid' aint no thang. i gets mines. its a non-issue. 'getting laid' for me is like eating and i am oliver twist. only i gets mines from one person. lets just say my johnsons has seen more darkened enclosures than a rabbit, a squirrel and a golf ball combined 

my johnsons has made more horizontal and determined movements than a cue stick

Religion is much ado about nothing, but hey, it gives meaning to peoples lives and to others, peace, satisfaction and joy. So if you ask me, though it's bull crap let people believe and practice what they want.  The world is perhaps more sane with all this religious block heads trying to do the right thing because they fear an imaginary mystic power would punish them if they don't. Not a bad deal for mankind if only others would live and lets live.

The danger here is that as much as religion could be a force for good, it could be also a force for evil, and we are all witnesses to the destructive power of religion. There are those who have their heads deeply burried in this religious mumbo jumbo, that, they believe in the absolute superior devinity of the their religion and would be prepared to go to war or kill  others for the sake of their religion. It makes no sense at all.

If only they would understand that when you die religion is useless because we humans created religion.

Without humans religion is useless, so it's dumb, very dumb to die for a religion.

Religion is a means to an end and not an end.

Use religion to make you a better human.  

Even  if ever there is any heaven, God would not allow you to enter heaven just because you subscribed to a religion.

He would like to know whether you were a good or bad person.

I stopped taking atheist seriously ever since they failed to answer simple question raised in https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-723007.64.html#msg8854199, the word mediocre qualifies the low intellectual level atheists in NL occupy.  

mazaje:

Or Israel about 40% of the population is atheist, no?. . . .

Brother stop rambling and be truthful to yourself.

Without the enlightenment from the missionaries, you might probably be climbing a tree somewhere in the the jungles of Nigeria. 

kabukabu:

Darn, that makes you the second simpleton on this thread, 
I said you need to get laid, not mate with anything you see on the street in Agege

Well little wonder,after all bus conductors are not known for their smarts, anyways

You are the kind of people that talk nonsense !!! Are we to take you seriously on important matters. 

These findings do not surprise me at all. I am an African. I was born in Africa. I live and work in Africa. I am non religious though I was born into a religious home. I attended religious schools. I had a typical (African) religious upbringing. I do not believe that Jesus will return again. I do not think that the Biblical Jesus existed and even if he did, I think he’s gone and gone forever. I can’t see the world coming under an islamic caliphate except what we have been experiencing since September 11, 2001. I have never experienced divine healing and I don’t think those who claim to have experienced it are honest to themselves. I have not seen a devil being driven out of any person except some self induced hysteria by some pentecostal con artists. I have not received any revelation from God except may be one day some godly people would claim that their god revealed this piece to me. I don’t believe that sacrifice to the ancestors will protect people from harm. Otherwise the ancestors would be alive today. I think charms and amulets are useless and consulting traditional healers and clerics is a waste of time.

Those who have not travelled out of the country or are born into this beliefs and doctrines see only one world . if you have lived in europe or America- you know people hardly go to church. Many care about only social functions and activities than one rooster bull miracle bullshit. Religious people reading this would think what a nonsense. But then if people who introduced the religion no longer care about it- why does a man enslaved, indoctrinated believes he even knows better than his masters.

THANKS A LOT GOOD WORD PLAY
Well We African have been brainwahsed and we dont own our selves no more, I ould say Africa has its own way of reaching its own God, before we were tricked by the westerners, Lets o back to it, Ok, God is everywhere, Ok, aa for this religous peopel Christianity and Islam, has not ever solve mans problem instead bringing killings,  and hatred, Think Africa,

vedaxcool:

I stopped taking atheist seriously ever since they failed to answer simple question raised in https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-723007.64.html#msg8854199, the word mediocre qualifies the low intellectual level atheists in NL occupy.  

Bla bla bla sheep. . . . .How has Islam helped Africa develop?. . . .

Pateuropa

I dont want to engage in long argument with u on this issue, nonetheless I cant afford not to reply u. U sounded ignorant by asking what is satanic? let me leave that. My guy, if u are directly juxtaposing the Nigerian situation with the western situation to draw your conclusions, u would always get things wrong. U fail to understand that u can not absolve the westerners of these so called habits by claiming that Nigerians also do it because it is a known fact that they are all western influences on Nigerians.

Now let me tell u, I leave here yes and I relate with all types of people. No matter what they look like because of course I learn form them, u ask questions what do they believe etc. They don't hurt you, in fact they are nice people but becasue of the kind of life they live, they fight psychological battles most of the time. They are always slaves to these and those addictions and they can not help it, I probably know more about what I am saying more than u do, I roll with them, I understand them very well, I have been to several crazy clubs that may be u urself have never stepped in, but all that would not pollute my understanding of life, rather I would just learn lessons from it. In Nigeria, most of the so called bad habits could always be traced to poverty. Poverty is zero here, it doesnt exist, so why? If u think that atheistic mentality has nothing to do with a girl prostituting at will, why is it that only the poor ladies with no hopes are the most LovePeddlers in Nigeria?

I am not completely defending the situation in Nigeria but I will not agree with a complete argument to the left. Okay, let me ask u? U are there in Germany, talking as if u understand everything about freedom and exposure, I dont know your socio economic class in Germany but here in the Netherlands where human right is claimed to be almost 100%, U would not get a job in certain sector if u are badly tattoed and pierced looking like a "hippy" I work with an international management consultancy, I don't see ppl like that in my company and all our partners. mind u, we have several partner companies these group of ppl belong to lower socio economic class/lower level of education. Now the question is if there is nothing wrong with what they look like, why not not employ them in the corporate world? why are they mostly lowly educated. Is that not discrimination in a country where they are fighting day in day out to reduce discrimination to the bearest minimum?

My friend, I am living here and I am enjoying it of course but u also need to enjoy urself without getting lost to the white man mentality. Humans need to restrain themselves, u must have self control, there should be limit to your ventures, u must not be a pervert. Don't people comit suicide regularly on your rail tracks there in Germany? These ppl are not starving, they can enjoy social benefits but they still kill themselves. On three occassions this year alone, my travel has been delayed due to ppl jumping on the rail track to comit suicide, and it happens across the country, many cancelled train trips because there is a suicide, it doesnt even bug ppl anymore, that is not part of several domestic suicide records, why are they committing suicide? so can u commit suicide? Nigerian would comit suicide as a result of any form of frustration caused by poverty. All these things have effects on psychology of man, so also does religion but the effects work out in different ways

So my friend, I am not here to sojourn abroad because I want to allow the white man mentality to suppress me, never, I am highly educated and I look at things and give a judgment from the normal angle.

frosbel:

Brother stop rambling and be truthful to yourself.

Without the enlightenment from the missionaries, you might probably be climbing a tree somewhere in the the jungles of Nigeria. 

That is a FACT. . .Israel today is a very secular nation and about 40 percent of its population are atheist. . . .The enlightenment the missionaries brought was educational not religious. . . .Take away the education they brought and you will be left with nothing of value. . . .

^

You just shot yourself in the foot.

Is education not the pillar of civilization

mazaje:

Bla bla bla sheep. . . . .How has Islam helped Africa develop?. . . .

THE SENSIBLE QUESTION SHOULD BE HOW HAS ATHEISM HELP ANYBODY TALK LESS OF AFRICA? OVER TO YOU MEDIOCRE

^

You just shot yourself in the foot.

Is education not the pillar of civilization

Yes eduation is, but you should know what the white man has taken from us. and used religion to blind us, and we have failed to realise it, they have run from all the religious bulshits, and education has been existing amongst African Ok, it started here, google the dogons tribe of Mali, and also i know you know Ancient egyptiansscholars tought Greek mathematicians, Ok .

@anvaller

The point i tried to debunk is you believing that clinging to a religious group or church would moderate your behaviour or give your life a meaning-

Several factors determine the way or level in which you relate to your freedom. No human society can boast of  a 100%% sane generation. There would continually be drug peddlers, prostitutes and other social miscreants or misfits. Your position is supported with generalizations- tatoo, piercings and all that!And in no way am i comparing nigeria to a western nation. My point there was we have tugs, social miscreants in nigeria also who live without indoctrination or conditioning.

SO back to my point a social miscreant chooses his way or a person that believes he must pierce himself to look cool has choosen to do that on his/her own will or maybe influenced by what is in vogue. But how many of the so called pierced people do have a high social class? or maybe educated to a higher level.

So if people pierce or have tatoo- it simply is their choice and you might want to read about the art of tatooing and piercing-how it came about. In human development and history- there are always social and art benchmarks as well as technological benchmarks. Of which breast surgery -all forms of surgery, tatoo all fall under.

And about been pyschologically looking for a way by western individuals- havent u heard human needs are insatiable- decadence is in every society and that does not mean you mixing up with different people (with good or bad behaviour) in Europe can be generalized as every white man in Europe is crazy or morally decadent. So do not use the behaviour of a particular people or your firsthand interaction to judge everyone.

The same goes for the nigerian name branded as 419- still u find sane and respectable people from Nigeria. So once again i find it hard to believe that you would generalize.


I also have moved with people from Denmark and other parts of Europe- and there would always be social misfits or miscreants. But my point is you should not use the actions of a few to judge the entire people.

YOu are free to believe their are demons controlling people with tatoos or demons are overseeing affairs in Europe. I dont bloody care- as i said an average nigerian would explain everything in a spiritual way.

I have an example here- there is a bar close to where i live called LUZIFER- if a nigerian sees it - the first thing that comes to his/her mind is that the devil entirely rules that area. But thats because the soul-mind is conditioned to believe anything like drinking or an unholy name is devilish.

So i believe in facts and prove. Ask yourself how many people do you work with have piercingsor tatoo or have tatoos and are demonized. The answer is you come from a community or society where things are craved with every religiousity-so borrowing from that experience- you dont need to call everyone in Europe demonized or devilished because of what they have on their body. Once again free will- ability to choose what you want and face any consequence is important instead of been teleguided or programmed or conditioned.

Once again you can choose what to believe and who to relate with but do not generalize based on experiences with low class or any other people with different status. I studied here in Germany and have seen a lot -so my experiences are first class and i do not generalize that the white man ways are wayward or does not work.

No system of training or upbringing can be 100percent effective .The only way is to choose from bad or good. And that is where free will comes from. So man----stop the generalization. During my study i met and went out with several white guys and ladies- well educated and they are rational in thinking and know what they are doing.

We could engage in exchange of words here but the truth remains you are entitled to believe that the devil or satan lives in Europe while God lives in Nigeria. lol

We could engage in exchange of words here but the truth remains you are entitled to believe that the devil or satan lives in Europe while God lives in Nigeria. lol

Thanks a lot here A lot of Nigeria dont have good minds towards each others, we hate our selves even we are blacks, tribalism we dont cherish our fellow humans, look at our leaders what they are doing to us , putting the people into mass poverty, Why but this cant happen in europe or america or Asia where we call them devils, Now the devils are now better than Angels, now, abi

frosbel:



You are the kind of people that talk nonsense !!! Are we to take you seriously on important matters. 

lol that ATL thug kabukabu is a downlow brother

Us Africans tend to believe everything that we see. The white man came here with missionaries to gain our trust, then they killed many of us and made us work for them. I don't know why people still trust these missionaries and Christianity. Did they even study the true history of Africa. Look how rich these pastors and, missionaries and white people are. While many Africans have nothing.

We need to be like the Chinese and ban religion. That will mean less violence and people will work for this life not the after life.

We are all alive today because witches and wizard form our individual vlllages had not eating us or our parents form the womb. It was this same religion that brought light, education, civilisation and so on to this continent. A lot of us read/heard about okija shrine in 20th century, you can imagine what had happened in 17th, 18th and 19th centuries when western religion has not lesened canibalism, idolatry, ritaul and all sorts of babaric activities. We have become so scientific and civilized that we have forgotten about GOD-the creator of heaven and the earth.

vedaxcool:

THE SENSIBLE QUESTION SHOULD BE HOW HAS ATHEISM HELP ANYBODY TALK LESS OF AFRICA? OVER TO YOU MEDIOCRE

Look around you, the most developed nations are the nations that have dropped religion aside and are secular(moving towards non belief), that is a fact. . . .How has Islam helped any nation develop?. . . .

frosbel:

^

You just shot yourself in the foot.

Is education not the pillar of civilization 

There are different types of education, there is the religious education and the secular education, take away the secular education that the missionaries came along with and you will be left with nothing of value, by the way I noticed you don't even want to address the fact that some deluded Nigerians are busy fighting and supporting a nation called Israel that is completely secular and has more atheist than devoted and practicing Jews or christians. . . .

I could not the read the whole text due to its length, however I have an idea of issues being raised by the author.

Firstly, Africans are religious because in most places, people are helpless and left alone to face challenges of life, so where the individual is handicapped he is forced to look upwards and this is God's strategy for drawin men to him Deut 8:3.

This is not the forum for discussing which religion is the truth or otherwise.However, any religion that does not promote love and peace is unacceptable to the school of common sense.

I strongly believe that Religious Studies should be part of the curricular both at school and at home. Absolute freedom is about bondage, religioud values keep people from self-destructing. I remember a statement made by Tiger Woods after his scandal, he said he was originally a budhist until but somehow he stared ignoring the tenets that helped him to success in the first place.

Finally, No matter the awesomeness of God, he still needs input of the indviduals, therefore I frown at any doctrine that make people to be lazy and complacent, this is against the plan of God. God promised Isrealites the land of Canaan yet he still required them to go and possess it in battle and not on their sleeping bed at home Deut 2:24.

@Pateuropa

U seem not to understand the scope of my argument. U are making several references to me in ur reply which I never said. So I f I keep exchanging comment with u here, it will amount to a waste of time for me.

Just to let u know, I argue from a psychological angle not from a religious angle. (so all ur effort to try to paint me as one of those religious fools is nonsense) My argument is about what could be the psychological effect of believing in religion and not. It will be wrong for u to completely strike out sense in religious beliefs because there are positivities in it, I can as well chose to argue for atheism cos I know the sense that it makes, however I also know the nonsense that it makes just as I know the nonsense about religion. For u to fix urself in one extreme side is where u are getting things wrong.

Goodluck in Germany!
Bye Homie.

mazaje:

Look around you, the most developed nations are the nations that have dropped religion aside and are secular(moving towards non belief), that is a fact. . . .How has Islam helped any nation develop?. . . .

No dumb bunny, what has your atheism contributed to you or your family, avoiding the question only shows the low intellectual levels associated with atheism, MEDIOCRE

vedaxcool:


No dumb bunny, what has your atheism contributed to you or your family, avoiding the question only shows the low intellectual levels associated with atheism, MEDIOCRE

It has opened my eyes to the farce and delusion that is religion. . . . . .Pls stop talking about intellectualism because there is non to be associated with you or your deluded religion that was formed out of the ignorance and plagiarism methods of the ancient arabs. . . . .