Thanx. Hate refers to disliking someone enough to want to kill them.

Bellotti,how many Christians have killed muslims for being Muslims.

And how many Muslims have killed fellow Muslims and people of other faith for what they believe.
Answer these questions and get your answer to who hates who.

softie i dont hate you too _{sorry bout the drama queen tho am it}

LOL I dnt mind.

belloti:

Babyosisi, it is haram (prohibited) for any muslim to kill anybody unjustly. It is a big offence in the eyes of the Lord

But allah does support violence so it isn't really an offence in the eyes of allah. He also tells you to kill non-believers.

belloti:

Babyosisi, it is haram (prohibited) for any muslim to kill anybody unjustly. It is a big offence in the eyes of the Lord

Okay, so when is it justified for any muslim to kill anybody at all? How do you interpret those texts in the Hadith showing that Muhammad, at least, is said to have encouraged the killing of those considered Muslim apostates?

Yes, when is killing justified in Islam?

Probably suicide bombing.

That is the problem we have in the world today caused 100% by Islam.
A religion that justifies killings,stonings and all,of course leaves the followers to their own interpretations especially if there are juicy rewards by the same religion for such killings from the very mouth of Mohammed their prophet.

Adultery may be cause for justified killing in Nigeria but only punishable by 100 lashes in Iraq the same Koran different interpretations.
Apostacy is a justified killing so says Mohammed the prophet of "peace".

I'm sorry, we are dealing with a teaching from a prophet who claimed to have received revelation under the sheets with Aisha his child bride,a man who was on the verge of suicide several times,a man who may have been diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic in modern language.

Bellotti,I'm sorry but I must call a spade a spade,for the benefits of those who do not know.

belloti:

There are Instances In Islam where Killing the guilty party is justified. I expect you guys to have a little knowledge of Islam

On the one hand it is "haram"; but there are "instances" to justify the killings. . . huuuhhhh?

From the little knowledge of Islam that I have, it seems that just about anything that Muhammad didn't like was enough grounds to kill anybody. So, what makes a party guilty - Muhammad's personal vendetta against his own perceived enemies??

Taking the life of a person because he didn't like your religion is heinous - and to me there's no justification for that kind of thing.

Long,but an interesting reading.

http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/women.html

I don't know if any of you have heard about the"peaceful protests" in suport of Palestine by the shiite slowpoke zakzaky and his brainless followers in Kano and Kaduna.

read an interesting comment by this guy,all muslims must be talking like this,if they have any chance of redeeming their image.


yaya musa
07.23.2006 01:55
I am a moslem and I have found out that we are the ones causing unrest in this world. Our leaders are lying to us. Arab leaders have chosen lies against their citizens in other to remain in power. Why is it that all moslems have decided to support Hisbullah even when it is clear who is responsible for this conflict? If we know we cannot win a fight why do we start it? I have been anti-Isreal until I came to find out the selfishness of the Arab leaders in this conflict that has claimed a lot of innocent souls everywhere in the world. The world is on fire because of my religion. I would want our Islamic scholars to prove from the events of today that Mohammed is a prophet of God if what we read from the koran is how to shed blood. I know that God\'s word is peace and life for everyone, Jews and Americans also. Let the Arabs tell us with prove that God cursed Isreal and said that a prosperous nation like we have them today will be destroyed by idiots like Osama Binladin, Hamas and Hisbullah. It is time all moslem started to question the authenticity of this religion. Other religions are quiet and peaceful, but we are not. What is Hisbullah doing in Labanon when there is a government there? What is Hamas doing in Palestine when there is a government there? Let somone answer me please. They undermine these governments and look for popularity by attacking a peaceful nation like Isreal. Let Iran and Syria support the legitimate governments in these countries and not militants. It is now clear that many are gaining from the blood of my Palestinian brothers that are shed everyday. Death to the militants that bring shame to Islam. [/color][color=#990000]

I'm pretty sure the next time those ATULUS try to go on a killing spree of the Igbos they'll think twice, gone are the days of Turing the other chick.

zulunation,I laughed so much when I read your posting.
Atulu(Sheep ) is a good description for terrorists.

watch this y'all,I hope belloti and all the other peaceful Muslims agree.
Just practice your religion and let us practice ours in peace without fear of the head hunters.

http://www.teachkidspeace.org/flash.php

great site for my muslim friends.

http://isaalmasih.net/index.html

Belloti you don't make a lot of sense,from the corner of your mouth you say terrorists are not true muslims and out the other corner of your mouth you say they are defending Islam from the west.

Why can't you guys be consistent.

Your brothers that bombed during 9/11 in the states and 7/7 in Britain what are they?
Defenders of the faith or falseMuslims?
Be careful how you respond because I'll quote you.
You cannot have it both ways.

@ belotti there are no terrorists in Nigeria?,those Muslims that have killed thousands of Christians without cause in Northern Nigeria what are they.

Secondly what regional sovereignty was Muhammad Attah and the other 9/11 bombers defending in Washington DC,New York and Pennsylvania?

@belloti,

I understand your concerns and should recognise your call for peaceful co-existence between people of various religions.

The problem many people have, however, is that Muhammad set a precedence for killing people indiscriminately, so that it becomes necessary to ask what criteria are used for judging one as "innocent" and another as "guilty".

Take for instance, even when modern Muslims are claiming now that Islam says NO to the killing of "innocent" souls, whose regional sovereignty are they defending when they kill converts from Islam to other faiths?

so based on what you said is it right then for us non muslims to make the following conclusions.

1.All terrorists are anti Islamic since the Koran neither teaches nor supports that in order words they are not true muslims.

2.Any muslim who supports terrorism or advocates suicide bombing is not a true muslim.

3.Any muslims who rejoice when the act of terrorism have been committed are not  true muslims.

4.True Muslims would never commit nor advocate terrorism in any fashion and anyone doing so is not a true follower of Allah

5.Terrorism here means killing innocent folks who have nothing to do with your aggression.

6.All those who call for religious killings in Northern Nigeria including the governors,Imams and sultans and all the participants are not real muslims since real muslims would never do such a thing.

7.There is absolutely no reward from Allah of virgins and other goodies when one dies while committing a terrorist act.

8.Any Muslim who dies during a terrorist act by which he/she is the perpetrator is going straight to hell.

9.All true Muslims condemn terrorism.

10.Any moderate Muslim who changes to become more religious and begins to advocate death to all infidels by way of terrorism have fallen from the Islamic faith.

Awaiting answers please,there's more.

@ belloti,4 malik asked agood question how do you answer

1.Since Islam says let your religion be yours and mine be mine,any person or country who sanctions the killing of a Christian even a convert is against the teaching of Allah or is it one of the allowable killings?

2.What do you say to the raping of women captured in war is it the mark of a true muslim or a false one based on the Koran and the life of its prophet.
In order words what would Mohammed do?

Eargerly awaiting your responses

Muslims do not hate Christians at all. Certain people who happen to be of certain sects of islam hate western/occidental foreign policy, but not the people. In fact it is written in the Koran that muslims are not permitted to kill anyone of the book: whether that be the jews with their Bible, the Christians with their Testament, or fellow Muslims with their Koran. In fact, when Islam was just developing their was a period when The prophet (peace be upon him) had to flee Medina with his followers to a nearby city inhabited by Christians and were granted Refuge/Asylum because they had convinced the Christian high priest that their Koran was not only the infalliable message from God, but was delivered to the prophet (peace be upon him) by the same angel (Jivril {us Christians know him as Gabriel}) that appeared to Mary (sal la lahu el lehe was sallum) informing her that she will bear a child as a virgin and that child will save mankind. This is all correct and in accordance to Koranic scripture/prose and testifies that before Christians lost touch of their fellowship and became equally radical in literal interpretation, that Chistians, Muslims, and Jews were Abrahamic brothers and in many senses could be seen as allies. I am working hard now in Montreal to learn more about my Avrahamic brothers and to figure out a way to preserve our original relationship.

For those of you who like to read I highly recommend picking up an english translation of the Koran. Some things to note though is that if you purchase the Koran(regardless of your Religious or Theological background) you should respect the ways of the people of the book. The Koran should be placed in your home higher (like on a shelf) then any other piece of literature.

Another great book is Islam and the Destiny of Man by Eaton. This will give you a good crash course on Islam.

Go to the Islamic call to prayer at your local Majid (Mosque), walk up, ask to speak to the scholar or Imam, let them know you came to learn and that you would like to partake in friday worship of God/Allah the God of Abraham. Let them know your intentions are genuine and that you would like to learn how to pray in accordance the Islamic tradition. Just like our Christian Church doors are open to anyone, the Majid doors are open to all as well. It is against the will of our Father to not permit anyone from worshiping him.

If you you would rather see a movie, there is a good movie made by Akkada (I believe I spelled that correctly) called the Message or the Messenger. It follows Islamic law in not having any graphical or personified representation of the Prophet, for this is not permitted in Islam (hence the big deal with the Danish newspaper artist who didnt know better and made the terrorst cartoon illustrating the prophet) big no, no! So with no Muhammed in the movie, when his followers are speaking to you see the prophets point of view, but you never see an actor playing the prophet. This is a fabulous film, and will teach you the introduction of Islam and what a beautiful extension to Judaeo Christianity that it really is.

I hope this helps guys, Muslims are great people. Being a Christian myself (eventhough I do not like to hold such titles) I personnally know from experience that in a time of need I can always approach a Muslim and ask them for help whether it deals with financial issues or even spiritual guidance, and I hope that all Muslims know that they can do the same with me.

yanni syracopoulos

One other thing guys, at the end of days, within Islam, Jesus is the one who comes back to fight the Anti-Chris-. So it is not possible for Islam to be such filth because their salvation is dependent upon the man who is now seated at the right hand of the Father.

Peace be upon us all.

yanni syracopoulos, again.

As far as terrorism is concerned there are some things yu guys need to know.

The United states harbors and finances terrorists. This is true both now and historically.

Israel seems to be the 51 state of the Unted States.

We harbor terrorits today, they reside in florida and are from Columbia

Our CIA and covert military have commited hundreds of thousands of attrocities in third world countries over the past 60 years even when the CIA was the fledgling OSS. I know, because my grandfather, who not only helped develop U.S. social security, helped write the 1953 social securities amendments act, and was black listed from the FBI for either voting independent socialist during a time that if you did not vote republican or democratic your patriotism was deemed questionable, or because he tried to unionize the FBI. His brother my GrandUncle was a member of the OSS, and their covert activities, according to my grandfather (when he was alive) were acts of terrorism and his brother new that.

You cant believe anything from the media period. Not Al jazeera, not CNN, not Fox news. You want to see how well iraq is going, take a flight there and then come back and tell us.

The arms dealers are the ones capitalising and reaping the benefits of war, along with the construction companies, and the oil giants. But the arms dealers are the biggest culprits.

Terrorists will not hesitate to kill another "person of the book" if the people of the books actions contradict that which was taught by our greatest religious figures, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Jesus, the Apostles, Muhammad, etc, It is easy for people to claim a religion it is different and more difficult though to live your life as a person of the book. If you support your government, which most Americans do, and you know that your government has commited more atrocities throughout the world than any other developed or underdeveloped country than how righteous are you really? ignorance is not innocence.

Also, if you go out and by a pair of 150 dollar jeans, that only cost 45 cents to make why would you buy them. Someone else, another child of God suffered to make them and you paid 150 dollars for them, when you could of easily found a 15 dollar pair at a distressed merchandise retailer and then rediverted the remainding 135 dollars to a relief organisation. That 135 dollars could of fed 13 children in an underdeveloped nation for 25 days, but instead you had to buy the jeans.

No wonder they are upset, unfortunately for us, the are the only ones who are making an effort to be heard, and to change our world situation. Things are fine and dandy in the west, but the rest of th world still suffers. But we go on ignorantly, buying our play stations, our suvs, and all the other donkey fodder that we can not tke with us to the afterlife anyways, and is stuff that we really do not "need".

help your fellow brothers and sisters and I guarantee a world change. Question your leadership, keep them in check, and pick up a book, dont just watch the news.

God Bless everyone,

yanni syracopoulos

m4malik:

@belloti,

I understand your concerns and should recognise your call for peaceful co-existence between people of various religions.

The problem many people have, however, is that Muhammad set a precedence for killing people indiscriminately, so that it becomes necessary to ask what criteria are used for judging one as "innocent" and another as "guilty".

Take for instance, even when modern Muslims are claiming now that Islam says NO to the killing of "innocent" souls, whose regional sovereignty are they defending when they kill converts from Islam to other faiths?

I understand your concerns on this matter, being a convert from Islam to Christianity.  But the answer to your question is very simple.  You see, nations the world over have a set of basic laws and principles or set of rules and guidelines that their citizens are governed by.  It does not matter if as an individual you do not approve of some of the laws; the laws is applicable to all and sundry. If you do not like a law and you run foul of it, you will be prosecuted by the authorities to the full extent of the law.

Laws are formulated and written by elected representatives of the people into what is called the constitution.  Some countries, especially those who profess the Islamic faith, do not think of man as an impartial lawgiver and chose the Sharia, a set of laws of divine origin.  Now if you are a citizen of those Islamic countries who have agreed to be bounded by Sharia laws, and you run foul of any of its laws, i.e. becoming an apostate, when you know the penalty for the offense, would you blame Islam or yourself for your fate?

Lets try another analogy.  I live in the US in the State of Michigan.  This State is considered a liberal state when it comes to death penalty.  In the State of Texas in the same US, if you are found guilty of murder by the jury, the penalty for the crime is death sentence.  Now I am not equating the offence of murder with apostasy but my point is on the rule of law.  If you want to become an apostate, you can go live in a country that is governed by a different constitution and no harm will come to you.  Similarly, a murderer can go on a killing spree in Michigan and if he is caught, he is sure to be convicted and given life sentence but not face death penalty.  If however the same crime is committed in Texas, the fate of the criminal is sealed by death penalty.
Why the disparity in the penalty in the two States, afterall the crime is both murder? Well, it is what the people of both States approved as laws in their statute books.

In the EU, the death penalty had long been abolished but they are always appalled by the fact that the death penalty has not been totally abolished in the US. It is not for a non-Muslim to question the logic or otherwise of a people wanting to be governed by Sharia. If the people want it, why can't they have it.  It is only non-Muslims who always think of Sharia laws as unbecoming of the civilized world.

@Abeem,

Abeem:

I understand your concerns on this matter, being a convert from Islam to Christianity. But the answer to your question is very simple. You see, nations the world over have a set of basic laws and principles or set of rules and guidelines that their citizens are governed by. It does not matter if as an individual you do not approve of some of the laws; the laws is applicable to all and sundry. If you do not like a law and you run foul of it, you will be prosecuted by the authorities to the full extent of the law.

Thanks for your response. First, I'd like you to understand that the background of the Sharia is very questionable. As long as Muhammad claimed to have been sent by the same God who speaks in the Bible, we should examine his claims by that same standard. You will not find any semblance of the Sharia in the Bible such that an apostate is put to death. This is what Muslims have not understood and so continue to take Muhammad's claims to be divine simply because he said so. His moral life alone should make any unbiased reader know that he was not sent by God as a prophet.

Abeem:

Some laws are formulated and written by elected representatives of the people into what is called the constitution. Some countries, especially those who profess the Islamic faith, do not think of man as an impartial lawgiver and chose the Sharia, a set of laws of divine origin. Now if you are a citizen of those Islamic countries who have agreed to be bounded by Sharia laws, and you run foul of any of its laws, i.e. becoming an apostate, when you know the penalty for the offense, would you blame Islam or yourself for your fate?

Now why should the Sharia apply to everyone living in a state who are not Muslims? Take the case of Nigeria, for example. When the Sharia was unconstitutionally imposed in some of the northern states, did they recognize and respect the rights of indigenes in those states who are non-Muslims? Now, the Muslim authorities may claim that the Sharia is divine, but how do we know that God actually spoke to them to unconstitutionally impose the Sharia in a secular state, in reckless disregard of the Federal Constitution that ensures a right to the life and safety of the citizens of the country? Since when has Nigeria become an Islamic country that the Sharia could be so imposed in some of her states in total disregard of an existing constitution - all in the name of "the divine origin of Sharia"?

Abeem:

Lets try another analogy. I live in the US in the State of Michigan. This State is considered a liberal state when it comes to death penalty. In the State of Texas in the same US, if you are found guilty of murder by the jury, the penalty for the crime is death sentence. Now I am not equating the offence of murder with apostasy but my point is on the rule of law. If you want to become an apostate, you can go live in a country that is governed by a different constitution and no harm will come to you.

There, you made my point. I am no longer safe as a Nigerian simply because I chose to leave Islam after having discovered it for what it actually is. Another person is no longer safe as an Afghan and needs to be chased out of his country for the same reason. Muslims love the protection offered in secular states, especially by the democracies of the West; but they can't stand the heat themselves experienced in their own "divine" rule of law.

Let me ask you something: what makes me a Nigerian or citizen of any country - my religion or my birthright?

To be quite honest with you, there are millions of innocent Muslims even within Muslim countries who would rather do without the Sharia; and we know that millions more who have migrated to Western democracies enjoy the freedom to do without some of the impositions of Muhammad's ideology in Islam, such as the Jilbab or Burq'a (although no punishments are ordained for the contravention of dress codes in Islam).

Abeem:

Similarly, a murderer can go on a killing spree in Michigan and if he is caught, he is sure to be convicted and given life sentence but not face death penalty. If however the same crime is committed in Texas, the fate of the criminal is sealed by death penalty.

Even within Islam there is a disavowal of the indiscrimate taking of people's lives (although this is yet to be seen on the practical side). Murder and manslaughter are very serious crimes that even non-religious governments discountenance. But it is quite another thing that an innocent person who committed no murder should be killed for simply changing his faith.

Abeem:

It is not for a non-Muslim to question the logic or otherwise of a people wanting to be governed by Sharia. If the people want it, why can't they have it. It is only non-Muslims who always think of Sharia laws as unbecoming of the civilized world.

Then it is not for Muslims to question the logic, civil and constitutional rights of any people to live in peaceful co-existence in a secular state. When the Sharia is unconstitutionally imposed in any state served by a federal consitution, that move should and must be questioned by all means. In a civilized world, it is very uncivilized for anyone to murder another person in the name of a religion that is too afraid to be examined in light of the collective conscience of sagacious and judicious citizens of any country.

The reason why Islam hate Christian, is simple. The see Christian as a threat to them, is like Christianity wants to be rulers over them. The Quaran tells them you should not allow infidel to rule, that is why any step a Chriatian takes always annoyed them. But the advice i have for them is that, God is everpowerful, He knows the beginning and the end, He allow rain to fall on but the righteous and unrighteous. So, it will be out of place to say you hate a particular religion just because the are not the same camp with you. Allow God to take is course He knows far better that all we mortals.

swatmiji:

The reason why Islam hate Christian, is simple. The see Christian as a threat to them, is like Christianity wants to be rulers over them. The Quaran tells them you should not allow infidel to rule, that is why any step a Chriatian takes always annoyed them. But the advice i have for them is that, God is everpowerful, He knows the beginning and the end, He allow rain to fall on but the righteous and unrighteous. So, it will be out of place to say you hate a particular religion just because the are not the same camp with you. Allow God to take is course He knows far better that all we mortals.

In what way does Christianity want to rule over them? It is islam that world conforms to. Muslims are not going about it the right way, there is no need to bomb the world in order for them to give them what they want - however it does say that in the Quran.

"Fight in the name of Allah, Fight them until they give you peace"