justlove91:

This man... Oda, it is the business and all those other things.

But it is now, lol. Like the As I got in my lessons as a child were not for the benefit of the As, but for the love and the gifts and the welldones that teacher and mummy and daddy showered me with when I got As.

All that love and gifts and welldones and favour of all the gods should be part of my motivation as I mature and grow, and I must be smart enough to include their consideration and acquisition and utilisation in building a hospital to cure people, because that's what might further empower me to build more hospitals to cure even more people and get even more money and more gods favouring me.

justlove91:

In conclusion, an atheist can not only be moral but has more access than a theist to a purer form of morality if he/she views his/her life as an opportunity to make a beautiful mandala for humanity's sake.

This was what got me by the way.

Actually, the atheist and the theist both have equal access to this purer form of morality you refer to, and as far as Nigerians are concerned, even moreso due to the Bible being in the education of many.

Be one a theist or atheist, one would have had access to stories of a certain Jesus Christ who had this so called purer form of morality so much that he is written to have given up his own life for the benefit of mankind, which to me sounds even a lot more purer than purer morality. Or do you not think we'd be a bit more selfish if Jesus is not preached to some?

We just need learn and understand, and, Mandala, I'd reckon.

budaatum:


even moreso due to the Bible being in the education of many.

How so? Indulge me, what do you think I mean by Moral mandala?

Or do you not think we'd be a bit more selfish if Jesus is not preached to some?

Why wound you want to preach Jesus to people?? By the way, I'm not a Christian.

justlove91:

How so?

It's a book with many stories for one to contemplate and learn from.

justlove91:

Indulge me, what do you think I mean by Moral mandala?

You likely mean learning morality by seeing further than one's own selfish needs, though it's not what I think you mean but what it might mean to me since I can only read my mind.

That said, here are your own words

Moral mandala is to be moral not because a God said so or for the fear of hell or the greed for heaven but to be moral for morality sake, to be moral because humans are capable of it and if humanity is to survive for long this is what we should all be doing.

To be "capable" means to understand the need and to know how to, though I'd balk at your "this is what we should all be doing", unless you plan to force or indoctrinate or teach humanity to be doing.

justlove91:
Why wound you want to preach Jesus to people?? By the way, I'm not a Christian.

I don't want to preach Jesus to people and neither am I a Christian. But in the dearth of Plato and Aristotle and Marcus Aurelius et al, reading the easy available Christian and Muslim books would be a step in teaching humanity to be doing, in my opinion. We just might learn to sacrifice for others in so doing, and we'd at least learn to read.

justlove91:

We do not agree on the traffic law because it was set by those who are supreme but because the reciprocal effect of the law will accomplish our ideal which is to drive safely on the road.
If the "SUPREME" decides to remove traffic light from junctions and tell us all to drive however we want, do you think we would all agree because they are "SUPREME"? No! why?
Because the reciprocal effect of such decision will not accomplish our ideal (driving save on the road).

You know there are law enforcement agents to deal with traffic offenders that's why you feel safe driving, in a place where there is civil war in fact you will be scared taking the safest road.
WHY?
Because rebels and other militants may drive anyhow as there is no constituted authority to handle the case of traffic offenders.
So the supreme authority is what makes you feel safe driving on the road!

budaatum:

It's a book with many stories for one to contemplate and learn from.

That's true, but not all stories there are good, one should learn to discern, but if I can discern between good and bad already why should I read it??

You likely mean learning morality by seeing further than one's own selfish needs, though it's not what I think you mean but what it might mean to me since I can only read my mind.

You're correct

To be "capable" means to understand the need and to know how to, though I'd balk at your "this is what we should all be doing", you plan to force or indoctrinate or teach humanity to be doing.

I'm not trying to force anybody, it's just nice to be good for goodness sake and if one chooses to be moral for selfish reasons, that's cool also, atleast it will still accomplish our ideal (living peacefully among ourselves).

I don't want to preach Jesus to people and neither am I a Christian. But in the dearth of Plato and Aristotle and Marcus Aurelius et al, reading the easy available Christian and Muslim books would be a step in teaching humanity to be doing, in my opinion. We just might learn to sacrifice for others in so doing, and we'd at least learn to read.

A welcome bonus.

MaxInDHouse:


You know there are law enforcement agents to deal with traffic offenders that's why you feel safe driving, in a place where there is civil war in fact you will be scared taking the safest road.
WHY?
Because rebels and other militants may drive anyhow as there is no constituted authority to handle the case of traffic offenders.
So the supreme authority is what makes you feel safe driving on the road!

You're correct, but I will word it differently.

The reason I feel safe driving on the road is because there is punishment for reckless driving and nobody wants to be punished so I can trust or assume people will drive safely.
But if there is civil war and no agents to arrest offenders then I can assume people may not drive safely so I wouldn't feel safe driving.

justlove91:

You're correct, but I will word it differently.

The reason I feel safe driving on the road is because there is punishment for reckless driving and nobody wants to be punished so I can trust or assume people will drive safely.
But if there is civil war and no agents to arrest offenders then I can assume people may not drive safely so I wouldn't feel safe driving.

So it's the fear of those in authority that often makes people comply with rules even though they know such rules are for their own good.

That's why we need the SUPREME BEING when talking about MORALS!

MaxInDHouse:


So it's the fear of those in authority that often makes people comply with rules even though they know such rules are for their own good.

That's why we need the SUPREME BEING when talking about MORALS!

Let me explain how I believe this works.

So you have an uncultivated land around your house, you can plant whatever you want. You can plant fruit trees, flower, weed, poisonous plant etc and the ground will support its growth without any question.

In my OP I said I believe in the law of sowing and reaping which means for every deed (action) its reciprocal effect is bound to come back, this law tends to our deeds as the soil tends to seed, giving us its harvest sooner or later.

So, with this law in place, you don't need a Supreme being to tell you what is right or wrong. You only need to know whatever you put out will come back to you, so if I want to reap good I will plant good and if I want to reap evil, I will make sure I plant evil. Nobody is judging.

The only reason I tell people to plant good is because I know people will want to reap good and you can't plant evil hoping to reap good, it doesn't work like that just as you can't plant weed and hope flowers to bloom around your house.

So, we don't need a Supreme being to give out morals(dos and don'ts).

justlove91:

That's true, but not all stories there are good, one should learn to discern, but if I can discern between good and bad already why should I read it??

Indeed, not all stories are good, and that's the beauty of the book in question. A story very early in it introduces one to knowledge of good and evil so one can use one's own mind to discern between the two.

As for you knowing already, thank the gods that you do, but the pure morality you've introduced here includes considering not only your needs but the needs of others too, and some are not as privileged as you are and so might benefit from the learning.

Also, considering most around you worship the god in said book, knowing their gods would help you understand them better, and understanding others helps one be more moral towards them even if they don't deserve it.

Do note, other books are available. Just that this particular book is much more easily available than most.

justlove91:
I'm not trying to force anybody, it's just nice to be good for goodness sake and if one chooses to be moral for selfish reasons, that's cool also, atleast it will still accomplish our ideal (living peacefully among ourselves).

While it may be "just nice to be good for goodness sake", you'd still need to ensure people see this way since no one is born to even know what's good in the first place. You wouldn't say ordinary please and thank you if you were not taught to, same as most people would not necessarily be good if they are not taught or compelled to be good. So you'd either need to educate people to be good or compel them to be good, both of which any responsible society would do by educating its people and adopting laws to punish transgressors.

justlove91:
A welcome bonus.

The hugest and biggest bonus. The Bible was written by numerous people, and introduces many writing techniques which have been used in various other books, so learning to read and understand the bible helps when it comes to understanding other books like Aristotle, Plato, K. Marx, A. Smith and even mandalas.

justlove91:

Let me explain how I believe this works.
So you have an uncultivated land around your house, you can plant whatever you want. You can plant fruit trees, flower, weed, poisonous plant etc and the ground will support its growth without any question. In my OP I said I believe in the law of sowing and reaping which means for every deed (action) its reciprocal effect is bound to come back, this law tends to our deeds as the soil tends to seed, giving us its harvest sooner or later. So, with this law in place, you don't need a Supreme being to tell you what is right or wrong. You only need to know whatever you put out will come back to you, so if I want to reap good I will plant good and if I want to reap evil, I will make sure I plant evil. Nobody is judging. The only reason I tell people to plant good is because I know people will want to reap good and you can't plant evil hoping to reap good, it doesn't work like that just as you can't plant weed and hope flowers to bloom around your house.
So, we don't need a Supreme being to give out morals(dos and don'ts).

You are talking about when you're alone in your own world without having to do anything with others, in that case whatever you sow is what you will reap but in this case you have to COHABIT with others around you who also feel like doing whatever pleases them.
So what you sow is of no relevance anymore because those around you may choose to vandalize your plantation rendering your effort futile.
That's why we need a SUPREME BEING.
Remember the illustration of traffic?
It can only work if everyone is law abiding but in the case where some deliberately choose to ignore the traffic laws then the lives of everyone including those obeying the rules are not safe.
That's why we need a SUPREME BEING.

What you supposed to ask is:
What the SUPREME BEING is doing presently to help us have a better future?

budaatum:

Indeed, not all stories are good, and that's the beauty of the book in question. A story very early in it introduces one to knowledge of good and evil so one can use one's own mind to discern between the two.

As for you knowing already, thank the gods that you do, but the pure morality you've introduced here includes considering not only your needs but the needs of others too, and some are not as privileged as you are and so might benefit from the learning.

Also, considering most around you worship the god in said book, knowing their gods would help you understand them better, and understanding others helps one be more moral towards them even if they don't deserve it.

Do note, other books are available. Just that this particular book is much more easily available than most.

Good points.

While it may be "just nice to be good for goodness sake", you'd still need to ensure people see this way since no one is born to even know what's good in the first place. You wouldn't say ordinary please and thank you if you were not taught to, same as most people would not necessarily be good if they are not taught or compelled to be good. So you'd either need to educate people to be good or compel them to be good, both of which any responsible society would do by educating its people and adopting laws to punish transgressors.

It's definitely good to compel at first but we would have to move past that to educating them. Just as it is good to compel your kids to brush their teeth but still need to educate them on why they should brush their teeth, that is more sustainable.
[/quote]

MaxInDHouse:


You are talking about when you're alone in your own world without having to do anything with others, in that case whatever you sow is what you will reap but in this case you have to COHABIT with others around you who also feel like doing whatever pleases them.
So what you sow is of no relevance anymore because those around you may choose to vandalize your plantation rendering your effort futile.
That's why we need a SUPREME BEING.
Remember the illustration of traffic?
It can only work if everyone is law abiding but in the case where some deliberately choose to ignore the traffic laws then the lives of everyone including those obeying the rules are not safe.
That's why we need a SUPREME BEING.

What you supposed to ask is:
What the SUPREME BEING is doing presently to help us have a better future?

@bolded
You're taking my seed analogy too literally, there is nothing/nobody that can interrupt the workings of the law of cause and effect. There is nobody or spirit or supreme being that can prevent me from experiencing the reciprocal effect of the good or bad I do.

Now if people really see this, understand it and live by it, we wouldn't need legal laws but people don't, that's why we need legal laws to create some semblance of peace among ourselves.

Oda, what is the Supreme being doing presently to help us have a better future?

justlove91:

@bolded
You're taking my seed analogy too literally, there is nothing/nobody that can interrupt the workings of the law of cause and effect. There is nobody or spirit or supreme being that can prevent me from experiencing the reciprocal effect of the good or bad I do.

If you send your girl child to school spending your hard earn money to see her through her education but another man got her pregnant in her SS2 Class, is that what you sow?

justlove91:

Now if people really see this, understand it and live by it, we wouldn't need legal laws but people don't, that's why we need legal laws to create some semblance of peace among ourselves.

Making people to see what you're seeing takes a lot of patience and humility on your part as each person wants to prove they're intelligent couple with the fact that many will outrightly criticize you even though they know it makes sense. That's why we need a SUPREME BEING that everyone will revere and fear.

justlove91:

Oda, what is the Supreme being doing presently to help us have a better future?

He is gathering those He has EDUCATED about His future plans and using them to educate others who are ready to REASON.
His future plan is to make sure that all evildoers are cut off from the earth so that only good people will inherit the earth and live forever on it!

justlove91:

Let me explain how I believe this works.

So you have an uncultivated land around your house, you can plant whatever you want. You can plant fruit trees, flower, weed, poisonous plant etc and the ground will support its growth without any question.

In my OP I said I believe in the law of sowing and reaping which means for every deed (action) its reciprocal effect is bound to come back, this law tends to our deeds as the soil tends to seed, giving us its harvest sooner or later.

So, with this law in place, you don't need a Supreme being to tell you what is right or wrong. You only need to know whatever you put out will come back to you, so if I want to reap good I will plant good and if I want to reap evil, I will make sure I plant evil. Nobody is judging.

The only reason I tell people to plant good is because I know people will want to reap good and you can't plant evil hoping to reap good, it doesn't work like that just as you can't plant weed and hope flowers to bloom around your house.

So, we don't need a Supreme being to give out morals(dos and don'ts).

Every law has a writer

Who wrote the law of "reaping and sowing"?

Blitzerz:

Every law has a writer
Who wrote the law of "reaping and sowing"?

Please let's take it one step after another.

Atheism makes them feel they're smarter than believers in God but with calmness we can help a honest hearted and sincere individual to see the need for a SUPREME BEING!

justlove91:

Let me explain how I believe this works.

So you have an uncultivated land around your house, you can plant whatever you want. You can plant fruit trees, flower, weed, poisonous plant etc and the ground will support its growth without any question.

But this is not true as any farmer would tell you.

First, you can't just plant "whatever you want" as your soil might not be suitable to what you want. Second, while you might initially think the ground is supporting you, as the years go by the nutrients in the ground would be depleted and the ground will support you less and less till nothing grows on it no more, which is why you need to understand how your plants grow instead of leaving it to some god in the ground.

justlove91:
In my OP I said I believe in the law of sowing and reaping which means for every deed (action) its reciprocal effect is bound to come back, this law tends to our deeds as the soil tends to seed, giving us its harvest sooner or later.

You believe? Now that's odd. Unfortunately, the reason you believe is that you do not know, for once you know you wouldn't merely believe because you know.

Example is you believing the water falling on your head is rain. Once you've looked up and seen the rain falling from the sky on to your head, you'd likely never say you believe it is raining because you have checked and now know if it is raining or not.

Still, not true that "for every deed (action) its reciprocal effect is bound to come back", especially not in the short term, and sometimes not in one's lifetime or even generations later. One just need consider the rulers in many countries today (King of England, Abacha's children, American founders), who's forbears looted from others and they, generations later, are still benefitting and profiting from it.

Thankfully, most humans know the limits of karma, and so have laws to enforce this karma "law" as best we can since it's not some natural law of the universe like say gravity on earth might be.

justlove91:

So, with this law in place, you don't need a Supreme being to tell you what is right or wrong. You only need to know whatever you put out will come back to you, so if I want to reap good I will plant good and if I want to reap evil, I will make sure I plant evil. Nobody is judging.

This "law in place" sounds like it needing to be put in place by some entity, hence the law or the gods, so you may believe or be compelled.

Also, depending on the evil, like say murder or theft, someone is judging, and there's a human imposed punishment is seen.

justlove91:
The only reason I tell people to plant good is because I know people will want to reap good and you can't plant evil hoping to reap good, it doesn't work like that just as you can't plant weed and hope flowers to bloom around your house.

You tell people? Now, if you were organised, you'd have a specific time when they come to you so you can tell them, and unless you have superpowers, you'd not tell them once, but would need to tell them many times over and in different ways too. Can you therefore see how you might become a preacher and have a church so you can tell people? I bet you'd require them to pay for the education you give them too.

justlove91:
So, we don't need a Supreme being to give out morals(dos and don'ts).

Did I say you might become a preacher so you may "give out morals(dos and don'ts)"?

Thankfully these days you can just start a thread, though you'd be standing on the shoulders of the giants who got there way long before the internet and you came along, or you'd have needed to start from scratch.

If you were more able you might become a teacher of morals(dos and don'ts), or a judge, imposing penalties on those who don't conform. You might even write your own bible, because they would be tools you'd need to use to get to tell the most people and "give out morals(dos and don'ts)" to them, and you'd do so because of your love for humanity.

MaxInDHouse:

If you send your girl child to school spending your hard earn money to see her through her education but another man got her pregnant in her SS2 Class, is that what you sow?

That is a good question and one can as well ask "If there is a just and all powerful God, why does he allow bad things to happen to good people?"

Making people to see what you're seeing takes a lot of patience and humility on your part as each person wants to prove they're intelligent couple with the fact that many will outrightly criticize you even though they know it makes sense. That's why we need a SUPREME BEING that everyone will revere and fear.

No we don't, we only need to "fear" the law of cause and effect.

He is gathering those He has EDUCATED about His future plans and using them to educate others who are ready to REASON.

OK, who are these people?

His future plan is to make sure that all evildoers are cut off from the earth so that only good people will inherit the earth and live forever on it!

Where will he put all the evildoers then?

Blitzerz:

Every law has a writer

Who wrote the law of "reaping and sowing"?

It is a descriptive law not a prescriptive law.

budaatum:

But this is not true as any farmer would tell you.

First, you can't just plant "whatever you want" as your soil might not be suitable to what you want. Second, while you might initially think the ground is supporting you, as the years go by the nutrients in the ground would be depleted and the ground will support you less and less till nothing grows on it no more, which is why you need to understand how your plants grow instead of leaving it to some god in the ground.

Oh my God, you're also taking the analogy too literally.

You believe? Now that's odd. Unfortunately, the reason you believe is that you do not know, for once you know you wouldn't merely believe because you know.

Yes, I do not know.
Messages received through mediums report there is a law of cause and effect acting over there but since I've not been over there, I can only say I believe, I can't say I know.

Still, not true that "for every deed (action) its reciprocal effect is bound to come back", especially not in the short term, and sometimes not in one's lifetime or even generations later. One just need consider the rulers in many countries today (King of England, Abacha's children, American founders), who's forbears looted from others and they, generations later, are still benefitting and profiting from it.

As I said earlier, the messages say the law acts over there, you can view it as we setting the cause over here and getting the reciprocal effect over there.

Thankfully, most humans know the limits of karma, and so have laws to enforce this karma "law" as best we can since it's not some natural law of the universe like say gravity on earth might be.

Karma doesn't have limit, it just doesn't work here as it does there and that's why it makes sense to have legal law here.

This "law in place" sounds like it needing to be put in place by some entity, hence the law or the gods, so you may believe or be compelled.

I mean it just as when I say "Gravity was put in place" not as a prescriptive law but as a descriptive law.

You tell people? Now, if you were organised, you'd have a specific time when they come to you so you can tell them, and unless you have superpowers, you'd not tell them once, but would need to tell them many times over and in different ways too. Can you therefore see how you might become a preacher and have a church so you can tell people? I bet you'd require them to pay for the education you give them too.

Did I say you might become a preacher so you may "give out morals(dos and don'ts)"?

Thankfully these days you can just start a thread, though you'd be standing on the shoulders of the giants who got there way long before the internet and you came along, or you'd have needed to start from scratch.

If you were more able you might become a teacher of morals(dos and don'ts), or a judge, imposing penalties on those who don't conform. You might even write your own bible, because they would be tools you'd need to use to get to tell the most people and "give out morals(dos and don'ts)" to them, and you'd do so because of your love for humanity.

You're being dramatic.

justlove91:

That is a good question and one can as well ask "If there is a just and all powerful God, why does he allow bad things to happen to good people?"

Because the first human pair rebelled against God's sovereignty claiming they can perform without God's guidance that's how human rule began and God decided to allow humans see the consequences of what they demanded: human government
That's why God has no right to intervene when those we choose as our rulers failed to stop bad things but when His kingdom (government) takes over the earth {Matthew 6:10} no evildoer will be found throughout the earth! Psalms 37:9-11

justlove91:

No we don't, we only need to "fear" the law of cause and effect.

Cause and Effect depends on the viewpoints of those involved what you view as bad may seem good to another person that's why we need a SUPREME BEING who knows it all! Isaiah 55:8-9

justlove91:

OK, who are these people?

They are His Witnesses sent out to preach and teach about peace making throughout the earth, they have gathered millions and trained them to forgo wars so that all of them have vowed never to raise weapons against anyone again! Isaiah 2:2-4

justlove91:

Where will he put all the evildoers then?

They will return to none existence since they're useless to God's plan for the earth! Genesis 3:19

MaxInDHouse:

Because the first human pair rebelled against God's sovereignty claiming they can perform without God's guidance that's how human rule began and God decided to allow humans see the consequences of what they demanded: human government
That's why God has no right to intervene when those we choose as our rulers failed to stop bad things but when His kingdom (government) takes over the earth {Matthew 6:10} no evildoer will be found throughout the earth! Psalms 37:9-11

Science has established the truth of evolution, and if evolution is true, then there is no "first human pair" and if there is not, then the whole edifice you built up there comes falling down.

Cause and Effect depends on the viewpoints of those involved what you view as bad may seem good to another person that's why we need a SUPREME BEING who knows it all! Isaiah 55:8-9

Cause and effect doesn't depend on anybody's viewpoints, it doesn't care about good or bad, it doesn't judge, It's just like a mirror reflecting who we're to us.

They are His Witnesses sent out to preach and teach about peace making throughout the earth, they have gathered millions and trained them to forgo wars so that all of them have vowed never to raise weapons against anyone again! Isaiah 2:2-4

You think

They will return to none existence since they're useless to God's plan for the earth! Genesis 3:19

There is a better way to handle them than killing them all.

justlove91:


I mean it just as when I say "Gravity was put in place" not as a prescriptive law but as a descriptive law.

"Prescriptive (or proscriptive) laws are rules that regulate the conduct of the agents affected by them, indicating what is mandatory and what is prohibited, what must and cannot be done."

"Descriptive laws explain how people, or even natural phenomena, usually behave or work. Example: the law of gravity, laws of economics. Prescriptive laws prescribe how people ought to behave."

The karma 'law' is not descriptive like gravity. If I jump into the air I will land on the ground, but if I kick your ass there's no law that says I'd get my ass kicked, especially if I get my girls to join me when I kick you so I'm defended from you kicking me back. So I'd say karma is prescriptive, as in a law you'd hope people believe to be true, and I don't see how it differs from the wages of sin being death.

"Put in place", adds the idea of a putter, and for some that's a god or a supreme being, or the Egyptian Pharaohs who claimed to be gods, or the bible writers who were prescribing how people ought to behave.

justlove91:
You're being dramatic.

Using hyperbole too, and I am delighted you noticed.

justlove91:

It is a descriptive law not a prescriptive law.

To the ant, your own prescriptive law is a descriptive law......

What changed is your perspective.
That doesnt change the fact that the law has a writer.

justlove91:

It's definitely good to compel at first but we would have to move past that to educating them. Just as it is good to compel your kids to brush their teeth but still need to educate them on why they should brush their teeth, that is more sustainable.

And that's the rub. In the early days of human civilisations, education had not been discovered, so people were compelled, and there was no better compellation than fear. Slapping you is afterall not worth eternal damnation in hell after all, if I believe there is hell.

These days we educate more, moreso because education has removed the veil off the gods, and we've discovered they were created by our fellow humans to compel us, and it does not work so well anymore.

We've evolved I guess, and see more clearly.

justlove91:

Science has established the truth of evolution, and if evolution is true, then there is no "first human pair" and if there is not, then the whole edifice you built up there comes falling down.[/quote ]
The funny thing here is how you said science as if all scientists subscribed to evolution but it's ok that's your own point of view.
[quote author=justlove91 post=126438318]
Cause and effect doesn't depend on anybody's viewpoints, it doesn't care about good or bad, it doesn't judge, It's just like a mirror reflecting who we're to us.

Well let's see how this your law of cause and effect works out in the gathering of those who BELIEVE in it first before i can consider it.

justlove91:

You think

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are fulfilling this today!
So if you talk about wars in any part of this planet know that Jehovah's Witnesses are not part of those engaging in killing neighbours and not only that we are preaching zealously and industriously teaching throughout the earth against it. Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

justlove91:

There is a better way to handle them than killing them all.

There's no better way than destroying those that can't be redeemed!

budaatum:

"Prescriptive (or proscriptive) laws are rules that regulate the conduct of the agents affected by them, indicating what is mandatory and what is prohibited, what must and cannot be done."

"Descriptive laws explain how people, or even natural phenomena, usually behave or work. Example: the law of gravity, laws of economics. Prescriptive laws prescribe how people ought to behave."

The karma 'law' is not descriptive like gravity. If I jump into the air I will land on the ground, but if I kick your ass there's no law that says I'd get my ass kicked, especially if I get my girls to join me when I kick you so I'm defended from you kicking me back. So I'd say karma is prescriptive, as in a law you'd hope people believe to be true, and I don't see how it differs from the wages of sin being death.

I didn't say the law is descriptive here but over there and since we're all going over there sooner or later we should take what they say seriously.

Using hyperbole too, and I am delighted you noticed.

Lol

Blitzerz:

To the ant, your own prescriptive law is a descriptive law......

What changed is your perspective.
That doesnt change the fact that the law has a writer.

I don't care whether the law has a writer or not, I still will not deliberately break it just as it doesn't matter whether gravity has a writer or not, I still will not jump from a skyscraper without a parachute.

budaatum:


And that's the rub. In the early days of human civilisations, education had not been discovered, so people were compelled, and there was no better compellation than fear. Slapping you is afterall not worth eternal damnation in hell after all, if I believe there is hell.

These days we educate more, moreso because education has removed the veil off the gods, and we've discovered they were created by our fellow humans to compel us, and it does not work so well anymore.

We've evolved I guess, and see more clearly.

And I hope we will evolve further past needing legal laws to put us on leash.

@MaxInDHouse
You do realise I don't have to be a Jehovah witness to not be among people killing their neighbours??

There's no better way than destroying those that can't be redeemed! smiley

There is a better way and they can be redeemed given enough time.

justlove91:

@MaxInDHouse
You do realise I don't have to be a Jehovah witness to not be among people killing their neighbours??

The way God reason totally differs from the way man reason {Isaiah 55:8-9} from the God's viewpoint all humans are guilty of murder one way or another the one and only guiltless man who ever walked this planet is Jesus of Nazareth that's why God insisted that whoever fails to take on the new personality to imitate Jesus is guilty of all the crimes committed in the history of mankind. John 3:16-18

justlove91:

There is a better way and they can be redeemed given enough time.

According to Bible chronology it's almost 7,000 years now that God has given mankind time to make over their mind on this issue but most importantly is the time when Jesus of Nazareth walked this planet.
Whoever has heard about what happened to Jesus of Nazareth and feels indifferent is already a dead meat it simply means you're not worthy of being called one of the guiltless.

So if you want to talk about redemption first consider what happened to Jesus of Nazareth then meditate thoroughly on why this young man was sentenced to death when he is guiltless of all the allegations levelled against him.
Your indifference towards that makes you part of those to be exterminated when God's kingdom comes.

To illustrate think about a king who sent his son to go and warn all inhabitants of his city regarding what they're doing that's evil then some men arrested the king's Son and got him killed, some people started talking about what the king's Son came to teach but majority feel they're not concerned. Please apart from those going about spreading the message the king's Son brought who else is worth sparing when the king comes to destroy those destroying his city? Revelations 11:18

MaxInDHouse:

The way God reason totally differs from the way man reason {Isaiah 55:8-9} from the God's viewpoint all humans are guilty of murder one way or another the one and only guiltless man who ever walked this planet is Jesus of Nazareth that's why God insisted that whoever fails to take on the new personality to imitate Jesus is guilty of all the crimes committed in the history of mankind. John 3:16-18

What kind of a God are you serving dude?? Do you even hear youself?
Your God will find me guilty of all the crimes committed in the history of mankind just because I don't believe in Jesus.

According to Bible chronology it's almost 7,000 years now that God has given mankind time to make over their mind on this issue but most importantly is the time when Jesus of Nazareth walked this planet.
Whoever has heard about what happened to Jesus of Nazareth and feels indifferent is already a dead meat it simply means you're not worthy of being called one of the guiltless.

I'm not taking of mankind, but the individual sinner.

So if you want to talk about redemption first consider what happened to Jesus of Nazareth then meditate thoroughly on why this young man was sentenced to death when he is guiltless of all the allegations levelled against him.
Your indifference towards that makes you part of those to be exterminated when God's kingdom comes.

He is not the first to be accused wrongly and not the last.

To illustrate think about a king who sent his son to go and warn all inhabitants of his city regarding what they're doing that's evil then some men arrested the king's Son and got him killed, some people started talking about what the king's Son came to teach but majority feel they're not concerned. Please apart from those going about spreading the message the king's Son brought who else is worth sparing when the king comes to destroy those destroying his city? Revelations 11:18

What was the message of Jesus?