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Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? - Religion - Nairaland

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Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 10:03am On Oct 20, 2023
This question is coming from the heels of those who downplay religious experiences like Visions, OBEs, Trances as "it's just your subjective experience", "it's not Objective" so "it ain't real".

Thread...
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 10:04am On Oct 20, 2023
My hypothesis:

Nothing perceived with the physical sense is objective. Nothing Material is. You only have 'Subjective Agreements on Objectivity' (SAO).

2 Likes

Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 10:05am On Oct 20, 2023
SAO basically means we simply agree that yes, the red painting we're both looking at is red even though we both can't and are not seeing exactly the same (objective) red paint, so let's just agree that it's red and let life go on.
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 10:06am On Oct 20, 2023
Given the above, 'reality' or 'objectivity' hence is simply 'co-agreed definitions+acceptances to things that are not really so as it where.

Cheers!
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by Maynman: 11:05am On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:
This question is coming from the heels of those who downplay religious experiences like Visions, OBEs, Trances as "it's just your subjective experience", "it's not Objective" so "it ain't real".

Thread...

Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 11:08am On Oct 20, 2023
Maynman:


Sorry, we'll look for you when we need quotes from the resources and works of people like you online.
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by Maynman: 11:15am On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:


Sorry, we'll look for you when we need quotes from the resources and works of people like you online.
Keep deluding yourself with all these jargons.

1 Like

Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 12:54pm On Oct 20, 2023
Maynman:

Keep deluding yourself with all these jargons.

Incidentally "jargon" isn't necessarily a negative word...you need this enlightenment.
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by Maynman: 1:02pm On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:


Incidentally "jargon" isn't necessarily a negative word...you need this enlightenment.
It's exactly what you are doing, Jargons from Eckankar.
You can't get "enlightenment" from outside, no one can give you that's why you will keep finding and you will never get it.
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 1:06pm On Oct 20, 2023
Maynman:

It's exactly what you are doing, Jargons from Eckankar.
You can't get "enlightenment" from outside, no one can give you that's why you will keep finding and you will never get it.

Lol
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by Maynman: 1:08pm On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:


Lol
No answer will help you.
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by Kobojunkie: 1:57pm On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:
This question is coming from the heels of those who downplay religious experiences like Visions, OBEs, Trances as "it's just your subjective experience", "it's not Objective" so "it ain't real".
Thread...
Why try to force others to believe an experience which they have no way of verifying except if able to replicate it in themselves? Maybe we should start there. undecided

1 Like

Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 3:23pm On Oct 20, 2023
Kobojunkie:
Why try to force others to believe an experience which they have no way of verifying except if able to replicate it in themselves? Maybe we should start there. undecided

Let's stick to the fundamental topic please. What do you know or think about it?
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by Kobojunkie: 3:33pm On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:
■ Let's stick to the fundamental topic please. What do you know or think about it?
I don't by your argument at all as it reeks of a lack of understanding of objective criteria. undecided
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 3:59pm On Oct 20, 2023
Kobojunkie:
I don't by your argument at all as it reeks of a lack of understanding of objective criteria. undecided

Explain please
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by Kobojunkie: 4:05pm On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:
Explain please
What criteria must be met for something to qualify as "objective" or "subjective"?
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 4:16pm On Oct 20, 2023
Kobojunkie:
What criteria must be met for something to qualify as "objective" or "subjective"?

The basic definitions of those terms are your starting points
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by Kobojunkie: 4:19pm On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:
The basic definitions of those terms are your starting points
And if we are to indeed start from there then your hypothesis...
chieveboy:
My hypothesis: Nothing perceived with the physical sense is objective. Nothing Material is. You only have 'Subjective Agreements on Objectivity' (SAO).
...falls apart. undecided
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 4:21pm On Oct 20, 2023
Kobojunkie:
And if we are to indeed start from there then your hypothesis... ...falls apart. undecided

Good start. It's time to now marry that with the statement "No two people are alike"...

Let me know what you got.
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by Kobojunkie: 4:28pm On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:
■ Good start. It's time to now marry that with the statement "No two people are alike"... Let me know what you got.
I am afraid I do not follow at all. undecided
Objective Criterion is an approach to judgment or assessment that is not removed from personal feelings, prejudice, and interpretation. It is based on facts, observations, and measurements.
"No two people are alike" is all the more reason to argue for an objective criterion, assessment removed from the personal feelings, prejudices and interpretations of the individual. undecided
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 4:29pm On Oct 20, 2023
Kobojunkie:
I am afraid I do not follow at all. undecided

That's it. You need to be grounded in such physics to be able to tango.
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by Kobojunkie: 4:30pm On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:
■ That's it. You need to be grounded in such physics to be able to tango.
You are still not making any sense. What now has physics to do with this? undecided
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 4:31pm On Oct 20, 2023
Kobojunkie:
You are still not making any sense. What now has physics to do with this? undecided

Lolz what do you think we've been talking about grin
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by triplechoice(m): 4:48pm On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:
This question is coming from the heels of those who downplay religious experiences like Visions, OBEs, Trances as "it's just your subjective experience", "it's not Objective" so "it ain't real".

Thread...

But non religious people can also experience visions ,"OBEs" and trance .

For instance , die hard Peter obi and Tinubu supporters are currently going through a trance of loyalty for their preferred candidate, and that's why they struggle to see things objectively .

Now ,to answer the op, one's reaction( "collective agreement" ) to a thing that exist is not the same as the thing itself . In other words, your reaction is a creation of your mind and not the thing itself .

Does Peter obi and Tinubu exist ,yes they do .
Are their fanatical supporters capable of an objective perception of them ?

You should know the answer already .
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by LordReed(m): 4:59pm On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:
This question is coming from the heels of those who downplay religious experiences like Visions, OBEs, Trances as "it's just your subjective experience", "it's not Objective" so "it ain't real".

Thread...

1. Yes humans have objective experiences even though those experiences are narrow compared to what is available.

2. Subjective DOES NOT mean not real. It means peculiar to the individual and thus cannot be experienced simultaneously by others.
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by Kobojunkie: 5:03pm On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:
■ Lolz what do you think we've been talking about grin
Kai! See this one! grin
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 5:48pm On Oct 20, 2023
LordReed:


1. Yes humans have objective experiences even though those experiences are narrow compared to what is available.

We're saying whatever humans are seeing is actually not what they thought (or assumed) it was even if they agree that what they are seeing is what they agreed they are seeing.

This is true in the light of current information on the physics of what to a human is 'reality', and even what is not real to him.


2. Subjective DOES NOT mean not real. It means peculiar to the individual and thus cannot be experienced simultaneously by others.

We can't talk about this one yet, we must parse through the physics of reality and what it might be, and then decided if indeed objectivity is possible as far as the human sensoria is concerned.
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 5:55pm On Oct 20, 2023
triplechoice:


But non religious people can also experience visions ,"OBEs" and trance .

For instance , die hard Peter obi and Tinubu supporters are currently going through a trance of loyalty for their preferred candidate, and that's why they struggle to see things objectively .

Now ,to answer the op, one's reaction( "collective agreement" ) to a thing that exist is not the same as the thing itself . In other words, your reaction is a creation of your mind and not the thing itself .

Does Peter obi and Tinubu exist ,yes they do .
Are their fanatical supporters capable of an objective perception of them ?

You should know the answer already .

You came close to where I am coming from. The issue is, the Tinubu you knew a second ago is not the same Tinubu you (think) you knew the next second.

This is so even if we work with the common reality that the very particles that makes our physical body's are constantly in a state of flux, which gave rise to the saying that "nothing remains the same".

If so, we are only agreeing to agree that this flux (dynamism), which appears as a static or Constants to our mortal sensoria is static or 'real', and that we are seeing the same thing even though we are not (since all is changing and moving).

A dog (due to their senses) isn't seeing the objective Tinubu, whatever the dog sees is actually part of Tinubu humans are not seeing, so Tinubu isn't actually Objective in the sense of the word.
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by triplechoice(m): 6:19pm On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:


You came close to where I am coming from. The issue is, the Tinubu you knew a second ago is not the same Tinubu you (think) you knew the next second.

This is so even if we work with the common reality that the very particles that makes our physical body's are constantly in a state of flux, which gave rise to the saying that "nothing remains the same".

If so, we are only agreeing to agree that this flux (dynamism), which appears as a static or Constants to our mortal sensoria is static or 'real', and that we are seeing the same thing even though we are not (since all is changing and moving).

A dog (due to their senses) isn't seeing the objective Tinubu, whatever the dog sees is actually part of Tinubu humans are not seeing, so Tinubu isn't actually Objective in the sense of the word.

"Nothing remains the same " does not mean nothing .There's something objectively real that doesn't remain the same however you perceive it . That's my point .

Please answer this question ,

Who is the current president of Nigeria ?
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 6:25pm On Oct 20, 2023
triplechoice:



Who is the current president of Nigeria ?

The constituent of Tinubu we collectively agreed is Tinubu.
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by triplechoice(m): 6:36pm On Oct 20, 2023
chieveboy:


The constituent of Tinubu we collectively agreed is Tinubu.

Who are the "we" that has collectively agreed and how did the "we" all arrived at this agreement ?
Re: Are We Capable Of Objective Perception As Humans? by chieveboy(m): 6:54pm On Oct 20, 2023
triplechoice:


Who are the "we" that has collectively agreed and how did the "we" all arrived at this agreement ?

All of use actually at the subconscious level where all of us are connected to. It's really an 'interface' which had been earlier exploded and known by mystics and today atheist physicists are exploring.

For a fact, this is actually how reality is "manifested", we actually "produce" it in real-time. I tried to share a very advanced work by some physicists on this with Lord.reed which takes the Double Slit experiment light years ahead of it's time He ran away instead.

You must have learnt that
The 'Double Slit Experiment' (the latest versions) found that everything exists as a wave of possibility. How when an observer comes into the picture, what you think was takes on another dimension.

This led to the question: what then is 'real', like the reality behind what we thought is reality?

This is where my hypothesis (though unoriginal) that we merely are agreeing to agree on ' real'and 'not real'.

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