Sand2022:
Jw witnesses have a different understanding of Acts 1:11. Let's read

Acts 1:11
11and said: “Men of Galʹi·lee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was taken up from you into the sky will come in the same manner as you have seen him going into the sky.”

There Publications explains the verse thus:

15 The angels said that Jesus would return, not in the same form, but “in the same manner.” In what manner did he depart? He was out of sight when the angels spoke. Only those few men, the apostles, perceived that Jesus had left the vicinity of the earth and was on his way to his Father in heaven. The manner of Christ’s return was to be similar. So it has been. Today, only those with spiritual discernment realize that Jesus is present in kingly power. (Luke 17:20) We need to discern the evidence of his presence and convey it to others so that they too may see the urgency of our times."

From the publication, the point is:

Only the JW anointed discerned that Jesus had supposedly returned in 1914. As they believe, that discernment by the anointed of JWs was how they saw Jesus returned as the angels spoke in acts 1:11.

Why did they believe so?
Because the angels made their statement after Jesus had gone off view, and that it was only the apostles who saw him leave.

However, does that view make sense? No. Let's first agree that the word manner doesn't emphasize the form with which Jesus left. That was not the point in the angels words. It is manner, but the way the JWs apply the meaning of manner is totally against the context. Let's see:

The angels says "This Jesus who was taken up from you into the sky will come in the same manner as you have seen him going into the sky.”

The phrase didn't stop at "in the same manner", but it continued "as you have seen him going into the sky". So the manner has to do with the process with which he ascended into the sky. The process/manner/method will follow a reverse order, in that he will descend to the earth. Yes, the point of tropos (Greek word for manner) is not about the form of body he will return, but the process or way with which he ascended.

However, the JWs says that the manner or process has to do with the fact that only the apostles were present and that they alone saw him. So his return will not be discerned by others except the JW anointed.

After the word manner, the angels continued "... as you have seen him going into the sky". This emphasize a reverse order in his return. None of Jehovah witnesses saw him return. So there was no reverse order in JW return of Christ as the angels say. The JW rather says that the anointed saw the sign that he is a king in heaven as world war occured in 1914. But that is just a sign of a supposed return. That is not what the angels said. The angels say we will see him, not the sign. There are two opposite words used by the angels... Going and coming. Jesus went to heaven, what remains is for him to return (coming). As he is seen going, he will also be seen coming back. That is the correct application of the word tropos (manner).

The JW interpretation replaced seeing with discerning or realization so as to shift the meaning of the angels words to something that will agree with their 1914 theology.

The fact is that the apostles did not just realize that he was going to heaven nor did they discern he was going, rather they saw him[i][/i] going. They did not discern any sign that he was going to heaven, rather they saw that he was going to heaven. In the same way, we will see him returning. That is the proper application of that word "manner".

MaxInDHouse:

So if Jehovah's Witnesses are saying Jesus who was executed thousands of years ago is around today since 1914 instead of arguing with them why not look out for the evidence of his presence?

FRANCISTOWN:

@ Sand2022
You get time dey mind JW people. People wey dey read their bible like Arabic, from the back to the front and from the right hand side to the Left handside.

The bible clearly states in Rev 1:7 that "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

That bible verse says every eye shall see him not some eyes, and every family of the world shall cry because of him.

JWs always interprete the bible like they were homeschooled by cockroaches.

FRANCISTOWN:

@ Sand2022
You get time dey mind JW people. People wey dey read their bible like Arabic, from the back to the front and from the right hand side to the Left handside.

The bible clearly states in Rev 1:7 that "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

That bible verse says every eye shall see him not some eyes, and every family of the world shall cry because of him.

JWs always interprete the bible like they were homeschooled by cockroaches.

"Prayers will spoil your life, ruin your life"
- FRANCISTOWN, 24th July,2023 on Nairaland.


This "Godless illiterate" forming MUMU opinion.

Janosky:


"Prayers will spoil your life, ruin your life"
- FRANCISTOWN, 24th July,2023 on Nairaland.


This "Godless illiterate" forming MUMU opinion.

MaxInDHouse:
It would have made sense if you believe in any of these things but since you don't even believe that God exist there's no reason wasting my precious time on you!

https://www.nairaland.com/7722262/win-90k-believing-god-no
https://www.nairaland.com/7671678/nobody-should-talk-god-again#122835259
.

FRANCISTOWN:

If you changed your course and you hear someone stating a wrong definition from your previous course, won't you set the person straight?

MaxInDHouse:


This is not about course it's you not knowing what faith is all about so you DROPPED OUT that's why you can't set anything straight since you don't understand in the first place.
You quoted Revelations 1:7 where Jesus talked in idioms and instead of asking for meaning you're applying your former teaching which was wrong.

"Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen." Revelations 1:7

The highlighted is evidence that the statement is not to be taken literally.
Are those who pierced Jesus still alive so that they can see him return?

This is where he said the same thing for his disciples who aren't born again to grasp idioms:

"Then the SIGN of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" Matthew 24:30

So it's the SIGN of his presence that the whole world will see humans can't see spirit creatures and to make it clearer now that you feel you're a scientist can people throughout the earth see someone at the same time with the shape of the earth that's spherical?

Ọmọ when you want to chat me ask questions not just jumping into discussions using your former understanding that you now discovered is senseless to argue blindly.

FRANELCLINIC:
It is interesting that you posted this.
Okay! Let me hope that it is a genuineness that you posted this. Here is my defense:

the second time that he appears . . . , and he will be seen by those earnestly looking for him for their salvation.
—Hebrews 9:28; NWT

unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time . . . unto salvation.
—Hebrews 9:28; KJV

Notice that at Jesus will appear, not to all, but only “unto them that look for him.”
It is true that the Bible does say that every eye will see him when he comes. But notice that ‘comes’ can refer to one of the things.
A person can “come” when he enters the room, on the other hand he can “come” when he takes action (ex: ‘you have come again o! better behave yourself,’ etc)

Since Luke 17:20 says that God's Kingdom is not coming “with striking observeableness,“ (“with observation”; KJV) and also John 14:19 says that the world will see Jesus “no more,” it seems apparent that a visible majestic display is not what we're looking for.
Yes, it will happen, as Revelation 1:7 says, but first Jesus will come into kingdom power. That aspect of his coming will be discerned only by those looking unto him. But when he comes to judge all nations, this will be discerned by everyone.

I don't know if what I wrote here made much sense to you? Not whether you think it's correct or not. First of all, do you understand what I'm implying, can you understand the sense of my argument?
Let's start from there.

FRANCISTOWN:


I've said it several times on this forum that the said man called yehoshua/Yeshua/Yoshua or Jesus never walked on the surface of the earth.

Man like Saul of Tarsus never believed in a physical Jesus that walked on the surface of the earth.

He was a gnostic christain. He believed in the concept of a supposed god in man kind of faith.

Through out all the letters of Paul. He never mentioned the physical Jesus.

Apostle Paul was not talking about the rapture at all. He was talking about what happens when a believer dies.

With the preceding verse says:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

That would be the judgement for those who believe in Jesus. Christ shall appear to them the second time.

Now if you decided to take that verse at face value.
Let's say the JW are the ones who truly find Jesus.
The verse says he shall appear to them the second time. Now the question is: when was the first time he appeared to you?

FRANCISTOWN:


I've said it several times on this forum that the said man called yehoshua/Yeshua/Yoshua or Jesus never walked on the surface of the earth.

Man like Saul of Tarsus never believed in a physical Jesus that walked on the surface of the earth.

He was a gnostic christain. He believed in the concept of a supposed god in man kind of faith.

Through out all the letters of Paul. He never mentioned the physical Jesus.

Apostle Paul was not talking about the rapture at all. He was talking about what happens when a believer dies.

With the preceding verse says:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

That would be the judgement for those who believe in Jesus. Christ shall appear to them the second time.

Now if you decided to take that verse at face value.
Let's say the JW are the ones who truly find Jesus.
The verse says he shall appear to them the second time. Now the question is: when was the first time he appeared to you?

FRANCISTOWN:

The words were not supposed to be a parable. Everytime a parable was introduced in the bible. The author would always go like "The parable of....". You didn't know, now you know. Mind you, it was not Jesus talking in Rev 1:7. It was John. You always try to wriggle your way out whenever you are pinned to a corner, but this time around, you are a ganna

John only further stressed what Matthew said, all the tribes of man shall see the son of man coming on the clouds.

They shall see HIM, HIM, HIM not his sign. Do you need a laying of hands to understand that?

FRANCISTOWN:

Also at the emboldened. There is no place that the bible ever says that Jesus is a spirit. The bible says he came in flesh and blood , he ascended in flesh and blood ,and so he must return in flesh and blood.

2 John verse 7 For many deceivers have entered into the world who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist..
The same statement repeated in 1John4:3 verbatim
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is not of God; and such is the spirit of Antichrist,
Jesus ascended into heavens in flesh and blood, not in the spirit, according to you guys' bible.
Again, the bible verses say Jesus will return on the clouds and every tribe of the world will see him. Simple enough to comprehend for anyone who understands simple English.

FRANCISTOWN:

I've said it several times on this forum that the said man called yehoshua/Yeshua/Yoshua or Jesus never walked on the surface of the earth.

ItShallPass:


What if I showed you that Paul believed in the physical Jesus?

FRANCISTOWN:

I'd rather you show me the evidence that a physical Jesus really lived. Paul himself was an imposter and holds no authority

FRANELCLINIC:


Of course Paul believed that Jesus walked the earth. For instance, see Hebrews 1:6 speaks of God bringing his firstborn into the earth. Hebrews 2:14 says that Jesus shared in “blood and flesh.” Hebrews 5:7 speaks of the days of his flesh.
Hebrews 10:5 speaks of when Jesus came into the world.

Philippians 2:5, 6 speaks of Jesus' emptying his heavenly nature and becoming human. Galatians 4:4 speaks of Jesus being “born of a woman.”

As for your other question? It seems that Paul was appealing to a basic truth and using it as a principle to support what he was saying. Humans die only once for all time for their sins. So too, Jesus took our sins upon himself once for all time. He will not do it again. Thus, the second time he appears, it will be apart from sin.

MaxInDHouse:

Ọmọ nah Jesus dey talk all these things not John but since you already made up your mind it will take a miracle to convince you.
Jesus has always referred to himself as the son of man and when talking he will not say "when i comes" rather it has always been "when he comes" as if he's talking about someone else:

"And HE will send out HIS angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather HIS chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity" Matthew 24:31

Abeg who made the above statement?



Did i say Jesus come in the spirit or that he became a spirit after his resurrection?

So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving SPIRIT. 1Corinthians 15:45

Perhaps this verse disappeared in your copy of the Bible!

Every tribe of the earth will see someone when he is coming yet the earth will remain spherical or perhaps the earth will turn flat!

MaxInDHouse:

Ọmọ nah Jesus dey talk all these things not John but since you already made up your mind it will take a miracle to convince you.
Jesus has always referred to himself as the son of man and when talking he will not say "when i comes" rather it has always been "when he comes" as if he's talking about someone else:

MaxInDHouse:

"And HE will send out HIS angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather HIS chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity" Matthew 24:31

Abeg who made the above statement?

FRANCISTOWN:

I don't know why you found it difficult to understand me.
I'm my initial post that preceded this one. I mention that Paul believed in the theory of a God who will come down as a man.
All the bible verses that you listed still supports that claim.
But Paul never for once mentioned anything about a physical Jesus. Lemme help you, this is what I meant.

Paul's letters were the first to be written in the NT yet Paul never mentioned Jesus':
Place of birth.
The events about his life.
Where he went, the people he met .
His miracles.
Paul talked about Isaac, and about his father Abraham, yet, never talked about Jesus' earthly father.
Now think about it.

ItShallPass:


Your opinion of Paul is yours alone.

I don't have any reason to prove to you that Jesus lives. If you don't believe all the historical records and the evidential proofs of his power, there's nothing I can do to help you

The only thing I intended to do was to disprove your false assertion that Paul didn't believe in a physical Jesus.

FRANCISTOWN:


The same Paul said this:

Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

I guess these verses up here disappeared from your own bible as well or is a spirit supposed to have a flesh and eat?

FRANCISTOWN:

Though I'm having that discussion with someone already but you are more than welcome to join

FRANCISTOWN:

I don't know why you found it difficult to understand me.
I'm my initial post that preceded this one. I mention that Paul believed in the theory of a God who will come down as a man.
All the bible verses that you listed still supports that claim.
But Paul never for once mentioned anything about a physical Jesus. Lemme help you, this is what I meant.

Paul's letters were the first to be written in the NT yet Paul never mentioned Jesus':
Place of birth.
The events about his life.
Where he went, the people he met .
His miracles.
Paul talked about Isaac, and about his father Abraham, yet, never talked about Jesus' earthly father.
Now think about it.

Sand2022:
Jw witnesses have a different understanding of Acts 1:11. Let's read

Acts 1:11
11and said: “Men of Galʹi·lee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was taken up from you into the sky will come in the same manner as you have seen him going into the sky.”

There Publications explains the verse thus:

15 The angels said that Jesus would return, not in the same form, but “in the same manner.” In what manner did he depart? He was out of sight when the angels spoke. Only those few men, the apostles, perceived that Jesus had left the vicinity of the earth and was on his way to his Father in heaven. The manner of Christ’s return was to be similar. So it has been. Today, only those with spiritual discernment realize that Jesus is present in kingly power. (Luke 17:20) We need to discern the evidence of his presence and convey it to others so that they too may see the urgency of our times."

From the publication, the point is:

Only the JW anointed discerned that Jesus had supposedly returned in 1914. As they believe, that discernment by the anointed of JWs was how they saw Jesus returned as the angels spoke in acts 1:11.

Why did they believe so?
Because the angels made their statement after Jesus had gone off view, and that it was only the apostles who saw him leave.

However, does that view make sense? No. Let's first agree that the word manner doesn't emphasize the form with which Jesus left. That was not the point in the angels words. It is manner, but the way the JWs apply the meaning of manner is totally against the context. Let's see:

The angels says "This Jesus who was taken up from you into the sky will come in the same manner as you have seen him going into the sky.”

The phrase didn't stop at "in the same manner", but it continued "as you have seen him going into the sky". So the manner has to do with the process with which he ascended into the sky. The process/manner/method will follow a reverse order, in that he will descend to the earth. Yes, the point of tropos (Greek word for manner) is not about the form of body he will return, but the process or way with which he ascended.

However, the JWs says that the manner or process has to do with the fact that only the apostles were present and that they alone saw him. So his return will not be discerned by others except the JW anointed.

After the word manner, the angels continued "... as you have seen him going into the sky". This emphasize a reverse order in his return. None of Jehovah witnesses saw him return. So there was no reverse order in JW return of Christ as the angels say. The JW rather says that the anointed saw the sign that he is a king in heaven as world war occured in 1914. But that is just a sign of a supposed return. That is not what the angels said. The angels say we will see him, not the sign. There are two opposite words used by the angels... Going and coming. Jesus went to heaven, what remains is for him to return (coming). As he is seen going, he will also be seen coming back. That is the correct application of the word tropos (manner).

The JW interpretation replaced seeing with discerning or realization so as to shift the meaning of the angels words to something that will agree with their 1914 theology.

The fact is that the apostles did not just realize that he was going to heaven nor did they discern he was going, rather they saw him[i][/i] going. They did not discern any sign that he was going to heaven, rather they saw that he was going to heaven. In the same way, we will see him returning. That is the proper application of that word "manner".

MightySparrow:


If you have any of them near you, be praying that God in His mercy should deliver them from delusion.

Sand2022:

I put all of them in prayers, they are still God's creation and He loves them just as He loves me and all in the body of Christ. In fact, it is out of love that I undertook to preach to them on this board on specific teachings they misunderstand, so that any sincere one can see how their position isn't right.

Sand2022:


I put all of them in prayers, they are still God's creation and He loves them just as He loves me and all in the body of Christ. In fact, it is out of love that I undertook to preach to them on this board on specific teachings they misunderstand, so that any sincere one can see how their position isn't right.

Sand2022:
Jw witnesses have a different understanding of Acts 1:11. Let's read

Acts 1:11
11and said: “Men of Galʹi·lee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was taken up from you into the sky will come in the same manner as you have seen him going into the sky.”

There Publications explains the verse thus:

15 The angels said that Jesus would return, not in the same form, but “in the same manner.” In what manner did he depart? He was out of sight when the angels spoke. Only those few men, the apostles, perceived that Jesus had left the vicinity of the earth and was on his way to his Father in heaven. The manner of Christ’s return was to be similar. So it has been. Today, only those with spiritual discernment realize that Jesus is present in kingly power. (Luke 17:20) We need to discern the evidence of his presence and convey it to others so that they too may see the urgency of our times."

From the publication, the point is:

Only the JW anointed discerned that Jesus had supposedly returned in 1914. As they believe, that discernment by the anointed of JWs was how they saw Jesus returned as the angels spoke in acts 1:11.

Why did they believe so?
Because the angels made their statement after Jesus had gone off view, and that it was only the apostles who saw him leave.

However, does that view make sense? No. Let's first agree that the word manner doesn't emphasize the form with which Jesus left. That was not the point in the angels words. It is manner, but the way the JWs apply the meaning of manner is totally against the context. Let's see:

The angels says "This Jesus who was taken up from you into the sky will come in the same manner as you have seen him going into the sky.”

The phrase didn't stop at "in the same manner", but it continued "as you have seen him going into the sky". So the manner has to do with the process with which he ascended into the sky. The process/manner/method will follow a reverse order, in that he will descend to the earth. Yes, the point of tropos (Greek word for manner) is not about the form of body he will return, but the process or way with which he ascended.

However, the JWs says that the manner or process has to do with the fact that only the apostles were present and that they alone saw him. So his return will not be discerned by others except the JW anointed.

After the word manner, the angels continued "... as you have seen him going into the sky". This emphasize a reverse order in his return. None of Jehovah witnesses saw him return. So there was no reverse order in JW return of Christ as the angels say. The JW rather says that the anointed saw the sign that he is a king in heaven as world war occured in 1914. But that is just a sign of a supposed return. That is not what the angels said. The angels say we will see him, not the sign. There are two opposite words used by the angels... Going and coming. Jesus went to heaven, what remains is for him to return (coming). As he is seen going, he will also be seen coming back. That is the correct application of the word tropos (manner).

The JW interpretation replaced seeing with discerning or realization so as to shift the meaning of the angels words to something that will agree with their 1914 theology.

The fact is that the apostles did not just realize that he was going to heaven nor did they discern he was going, rather they saw him[i][/i] going. They did not discern any sign that he was going to heaven, rather they saw that he was going to heaven. In the same way, we will see him returning. That is the proper application of that word "manner".

This man Sand2022 with him deluded assumptions.
Did the whole world see Jesus Christ going to heaven?
No !

Sand2022 claiming everyone will see him return.

So, you think that Jesus Christ a spirit in heaven (1 Corinthians 15:45 ) will come down in human form flanked by myriads of angels?

Oga, you are on a long thing.

You MUST WAIT tire & confess you are sick & tired of waiting

Sand2022:


I put all of them in prayers, they are still God's creation and He loves them just as He loves me and all in the body of Christ. In fact, it is out of love that I undertook to preach to them on this board on specific teachings they misunderstand, so that any sincere one can see how their position isn't right.

MightySparrow:


Very good Sir.

3 deities worshippers praying to their deities who can't save them from polytheism nah them wan pray for JW's?

That your prayers NEVER gonna pass your ceilings.
NEVER!!!