MaxInDHouse:
@oteneaaron
Are you ready to discuss?

Hahahahaha

You are so predictable Max.

😂😂😂

Why are you trying to divert my attention?

This is the question we are trying to answer - Did the Catholic Church Really Alter Matthew 28 VS 19 in the 2nd Century CE?

If yes, why did they do it?

If you want to discuss about your BLIND FAITH, do it on this thread.

Meaning of Blind Faith : unquestioning belief in something, even when it's unreasonable or wrong.

Between my faith and your infinite mind which is blind and which can see clearly? Psalms 115:4-8

But if you insist, create a new thread and invite me.

oteneaaron:
For majority of Christians, they believe that being baptized is a one of the most important tenets of Christianity.

Some people get baptized as children, others get baptized as adults when they join specific Christian denomination or sect.

The act of being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, is based on the instructions explicitly stated at Matthew 28 verse 19:



But while doing some research, I found out that there seems to be a problem with the above verse, because there is solid evidence that proves that the Catholic Church in the Second Century CE, altered the above verse to propagate the doctrine of the Trinity.

Here is a collection of some of these evidences to prove that the Catholic Church really did alter Matthew chapter 28 verse 19:















Please don't take my word for it, do your own research.


To help you on your research journey, here is a link to a collection of these hard to believe evidences - https://www.onenesspentecostal.com/matt2819-willis.htm

It's wrong to baptised babies/kids cos they don't know the meaning of baptism

oteneaaron:

Interesting.

Pray tell, how I am being deceitful when I was only sharing that the Catholic Church themselves admitted in their Encyclopedia that they did change the wordings of Matthew 28 VS 19? ...

You forget that people have seen you and known your "you hate Godism" so definitely even when your post here was fair, we know your desire is get people to turn away from God and the bible. That's what makes your post deceitful.

femi4:
It's wrong to baptised babies/kids cos they don't know the meaning of baptism

Not wrong but maybe meaningnone as the child can grow up and nullify it as atheists have done.

Dtruthspeaker:


You forget that people have seen you and known your "you hate Godism"

I "hate Godism"?

What is Godism?

so definitely even when your post here was fair, we know your desire is get people to turn away from God and the bible. That's what makes your post deceitful.

This what the Catholic Church itself said in their own Encyclopedia:

The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263:

"The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century."

Why did the Catholic Church admit that they altered Matthew 28 VS 19?

That is the question you can't run away from.

Moreso, if this makes you turn away from "God" and the Bible, then that says a lot about the so-called foundation of your faith.

oteneaaron:

But if you insist, create a new thread and invite me.

So you really think i'm that cheap?
Ọmọ nah you dey find my attention i don't even need you at all.

oteneaaron:

CC: Janosky, MaxInDHouse, Aemmyjah, Cornelboy, Archoladey, Courz, Emusan, Maynnman, tctrills

So if you want to engage me i have given you a clue on what interests me.
Take care!

Dtruthspeaker:


Not wrong but maybe meaningnone as the child can grow up and nullify it as atheists have done.

Show me where Jesus/John the baptist or apostles baptized infants/kids

Kobojunkiee:
Power to bind and loose what exactly?

How could Peter who there is no record to show he was ever in Rome had been the first pope?

Unbroken succession in an enterprise, sure, but what has that to do with anything?

priests have the power to alter anything even in the Bible
Jesus gave the power to his disciples which the priest/pastor now represent
Do you think as a Christian you are following everything in the Bible?
What about the change from worshipping on Saturday to Sunday?
So you should obey your religious leaders
They represent the disciples at least

MaxInDHouse:

So you really think i'm that cheap?
Ọmọ nah you dey find my attention i don't even need you at all.

So if you want to engage me i have given you a clue on what interests me.
Take care!

Hahahahahaha

Well, if you're not that cheap, then neither am I.

If you want to discuss about your blind faith, do it on this thread.

But if you insist, you know exactly what to do.

😂😂😂

oteneaaron:

If you want to discuss about your blind faith, do it on this thread.

Exactly what i said we will compare to your so called infinite mind to be sure which one is BLIND.
Are you ready?

femi4:
Show me where Jesus/John the baptist or apostles baptized infants/kids

Did the disciples not baptize everyone in the households they visited?

oteneaaron:

This what the Catholic Church itself said in their own Encyclopedia:...

You already said it and Babinsky has answered you, so why are you saying it again if it is not that you are truly trying to deceive people like Satan deceived Eve?

So now, you prove he was right and that you are here to deceive people just like Satan.

oteneaaron:
At this point, we have to ask some very important questions:

1. Since we have solid proof that the Catholic Church altered Matthew 28 VS 19, what other Bible verses have they altered?

2. Can we really trust the Bible with this sort of evidence?

3. What if we dug deeper into the Bible and found out that many other verses were altered by the Catholic Church - what happens in that case?

Don't forget that the Bible as we know it today, was practically given to the world by the Catholic Church - it was they who canonized the entire books of the bible.

Something all these bible oversabi wielders seem to forget when attacking the Catholic Church. Especially the JWs.

To them, just adding Jehovah and changing a few words makes their NWT the most grammatically simplified version of "God's Word"...

Dtruthspeaker:


Did the disciples not baptize everyone in the households they visited?

Show me

"that all believers in the households were baptized"

How does infants get into the equation

femi4:
Show me

Acts 16:15. You already know the Cornelius story.

MaxInDHouse:

Exactly what i said we will compare to your so called infinite mind to be sure which one is BLIND.
Are you ready?

I am ever ready, but it must be on this thread.

If you still insist, then create a new thread and invite me.

oteneaaron:

I am ever ready, but it must be on this thread.

Oya let's start.

First of all you can't prove someone is blind in the absence of someone who can see clearly so what are the benefits of your infinite mind that's OBVIOUS to everyone apart from you alone. The blind can see his own mind only apart from that he can't see anything else his own body not even those around him.

So tell me the benefits that your infinite mind has brought to your neighbors!

MaxInDHouse:

Oya let's start.

First of all you can't prove someone is blind in the absence of someone who can see clearly so what are the benefits of your infinite mind that's OBVIOUS to everyone apart from you alone. The blind can see his own mind only apart from that he can't see anything else his own body not even those around him.

So tell me the benefits that your infinite mind has brought to your neighbors!

Do you have any idea what Blind Faith really means?

Blind Faith is the unquestioning belief in something, even when it's unreasonable or wrong.


For example blind faith is still fuelling many religious conflicts.

Unlike you, I don't practice blind faith.

I question things that are wrong and don't make sense.

I am not scared of any mortal man - so I do my research and ask important questions.

I don't swallow doctrines of men hook line and sinker.

For example, as a Jehovah's Witness, this is what your Governing Body has said:

"All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not." Watchtower 2013 Nov 15 p.20

The above statement by your Governing Body makes absolutely no sense because even the Bible says this:

Psalms 146:3
Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save.

So why can't you question your Governing Body?

First of all i will love to tell you that whatever definition you frame up is none of my business i will stick to what is BENEFICIAL to me and those around me.
Secondly i will only respond to your questions and be glad if you will also respond to mine.

oteneaaron:

Do you have any what Blind Faith really means?

According to God's word FAITH is the assured expectation of what is hoped for the evident demonstration of reality though not visible.

This means that when we say someone is faithful it's in relation to something he or she can view from afar as beneficial and began working towards getting the benefits even though people around him aren't seeing what he saw.

Now back to your question:
What is Blind Faith?
Blind Faith can be defined as beliefs that's of no practical benefits to the adherent neither is there any benefit for neighbours.
Millions throughout the earth are benefiting from my faith and these people are from different geographical locations, tribe and tongues all enjoying the benefits of my Faith

So my faith can see clearly than anything you can think of!

oteneaaron:

So why can't you question your Governing Body?

I would have loved to question anybody who dares tell me what i should or shouldn't do but after getting the benefits that no group of humans have ever gotten on this planet due to the things i learned from the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses it's inhumane to start questioning such a Body whose instructions have brought great benefits to people who are living in different locations on this planet!
Moreover it's insane to travel from one place to another in search of betterment and after getting to your preferred destination you start questioning those making things better than where you're coming from.
Won't it make more sense to return to your former abode?
I purposely joined the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses because of the orderliness and peace among adherents which i have never found in any other group so why should i start to question those making things work out there?


Now your question.

Apart from the head knowledge you carry up and down do you have anything worthwhile that those in your neighbourhood are enjoying in your so called infinite mind?

LipozSwiminPool:
From Aramaic to Greek to English language the translation is accurate but check the Roman Catholic translation of the Bible you will see contradictions here and there but with KJV it not.

I just checked KJV and the same alteration by the Catholic Church is there also:

Matthew 28 VS 19 KJV version:

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

oteneaaron:

1. If they are only true religion and only they are sole channel of communication with God, why couldn't they recognize the alteration of Matthew 28 VS 19 by the Catholic Church?

Matt 28:19 has always been part of the inspired Word of God.

But for NWT of JWs, definitely it added so many spurious words that were never part of any known manuscripts in possession today to sugarcoat their many unsupported doctrines.

gud4vvvvv:
■ priests have the power to alter anything even in the Bible
■ Jesus gave the power to his disciples which the priest/pastor now represent
■ Do you think as a Christian you are following everything in the Bible?
■ What about the change from worshipping on Saturday to Sunday?
■ So you should obey your religious leaders
They represent the disciples at least

1. Alter anything?
2. The power Jesus Christ gave to His disciples does not alter "anything". Rather within the bounds of the Law, they are to carry out God's commandments.

3. I am a follower of Jesus Christ and not a Christian and yes, I follow every which one of Jesus Christ's, God's Law and Truth in the Kingdom of God. So which of the almost 100 commandments and teachings that make up His Law are my missing?

4. There is no such change given by Jesus Christ who instead declared everyday a sabbath for His followers.

5. Your religious leaders represent the disciples? Are you sure you have ever read anything about Jesus Christ for you to believe such bunkum?

Kobojunkiee:
1.

I am a follower of Jesus Christ and not a Christian and yes, I follow every which one of Jesus Christ's, God's Law and Truth in the Kingdom of God. So which of the almost 100 commandments and teachings that make up His Law are my missing?

You're not a follower of Jesus nor do you believe in the word that his father gave him.
John 12: 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

Moses already came with the laws, Jesus came with grace and truth, if Jesus came with laws, he would have ordered they should stone the woman that broke the law, when you break the law you are CONDEMNED, (jesus didn't even preach your modern hell fire)
John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


This grace and truth is the Spirit and is what gives life, not the scriptures/bible you are basing your life on.
5:39:You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life.

Jesus said the word he says rather than the scriptures give eternal life.
John 6:63 KJV
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The word is the commandent of his Father, it's only ONE, Jesus said if you do not keep this Commandent, you don't love him.
John 14:24
Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.

So what's the Word, just only ONE, Jesus said this commandent is NEW, it's not found in all the TEN law of Moses.
John 13:34
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another

John 15:12
This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

Jesus said if you do not follow this commandent, the commandent will judge you itself not God, there's nothing like hell fire.
John 12:48
The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge;the word that I have spoken will judge him[/b] on the last day.

Are you doing the lord's work, just as he did?
John 13:12-15-- When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 13 “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you.

John 13:35
BY THIS EVERYONE WILL KNOW THAT YOU ARE MY DISCIPLES, IF YOU LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

MaxInDHouse:


Now back to your question:

What is Blind Faith?

Blind Faith can be defined as beliefs that's of no practical benefits to the adherent neither is there any benefit for neighbours.

Which dictionary did you get this definition from?

Your definition of "Blind Faith" is misleading.

The English Club vocabulary clearly defines "Blind Faith" as unquestioning belief in something, even when it's unreasonable or wrong.

Check it out for yourself - https://www.englishclub.com/ref/esl/Collocations/B/blind_faith_3256.php

According to the US dictionary, the phrase "blind faith" usually means believing in something without questioning or asking for evidence. It's an unconditional trust or belief in something or someone. The concept of blind faith could pertain to various aspects of life, such as religion, relationships, ideologies, or leaders.

Check it out for yourself - https://usdictionary.com/idioms/blind-faith/

I ask again, which dictionary did you get your definition of "Blind Faith" from?

Millions throughout the earth are benefiting from my faith and these people are from different geographical locations, tribe and tongues all enjoying the benefits of my Faith

These millions of people you speak about are Jehovah's Witnesses.

At this point, you must understand that what you find to be beneficial may be regarded as a disadvantage to another person.

For example, here are some of the "benefits" Jehovah's Witnesses gain from their "blind faith" in the Governing Body:

1. The Governing Body claims that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE which supports their doctrine of Jesus coming back to earth in 1914.

But evidence from archeology has shown that this is a BIG LIE.

Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 BCE and this completely destroys your doctrine of 1914.

Do you call such a LIE a "benefit"?

2. The Governing Body predicted that the world would be destroyed in 1914, 1925, and 1975 but NONE of these predictions EVER CAME TRUE.

Do you call such false prophesies "benefits"?

3. Your organization claims to "love one another" but this "love" is conditional.

If a Jehovah's Witness decides to leave the religion today, they will be shunned by their family members and friends who once claimed to "love" them.

Is such conditional love a "benefit"?

4. According to the B.I.T.E model, your religion has been proven to be a high control religion aka a CULT.

Is been part of a high control cult another "benefit"?

it's inhumane to start questioning such a Body whose instructions have brought great benefits to people who are living in different locations on this planet!

That is exactly why I say you are practicing BLIND FAITH.

Don't forget what your Governing Body said:

"All of us MUST be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not." Watchtower 2013 Nov 15 p.20

Apart from the head knowledge you carry up and down do you have anything worthwhile that those in your neighbourhood are enjoying in your so called infinite mind?

First things first, I am not trying to sell a religion or creed to anyone.

We are all experiencing this reality based on our individual personal experiences.

I am only asking people to always do the research to confirm or disregard the doctrines taught to them by their religious leaders.

I am only asking to take back control of their lives from the grip of their religious leaders.

I am only asking them develop the mindset of a critical thinker and learn to question everything.

If they can do that, they will realize that they have never needed any Pastor, Bishop, Pope, Elder or Governing Body to stand in-between them and their creator.

If they believe that the God they worship is Omnipotent and Omnipresent, that means he has Infinite Power and is everywhere all at once.

If he is everywhere all at once, then that means he is also living within their own soul.

So why do they need any religion in-between?

The Infinite Creator of the entire cosmos is alive within their own hearts!

All they have to do is to look within.

Even the Bible says the same thing to them:

Luke 17: 20 - 21 KJV -

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

When they do this, they realize that we are all one - no matter our race, tribe or religion.

Therefore, they learn to treat others exactly how they expect to be treated.

What other benefit could be greater than this grand realization?

oteneaaron:

Which dictionary did you get this definition from?
Your definition of "Blind Faith" is misleading.
The English Club vocabulary clearly defines "Blind Faith" as unquestioning belief in something, even when it's unreasonable or wrong.

This is the problem you people often have!

You're so carried away with the English that you missed the essence of your preferred definition.

OK let's break it down:
If a woman or man is said to be FAITHFUL to his or her partner it simply because such a person has FAITH in the partner not so?
How can such be a BLIND FAITH!
Is it not when there's no benefit in sight as real from the so called relationship?

Ọmọ you question your faith in something when there's no benefit in sight not when you're seeing the benefit right there in your very face!

The benefit Jesus promised his disciples is not head knowledge of whatsoever you may think of NO.

This is what Jesus promised his disciples:

Then Peter said in reply: “Look! We have left all things and followed you; what, then, will there be for us?” Matthew 19:27

Jesus said: “Truly I say to you, no one has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news who will not get 100 times more now in this period of time—houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and fields, with persecutions—and in the coming system of things, everlasting life." Mark 10:29-30

So stop deceiving yourself with all those stories about errors in the making of what Jesus promised, he never said they will be perfect in their findings but the result is what will give them the assurance that they're on the right path.

It's like you traveling to a strange place you've never been before but the person giving you the directions told you things you will see to be sure that you're still in track.

Today the one and only organization of worshipers having what Jesus promised is Jehovah's Witnesses so how they got there doesn't matter as long as they're studying the Bible nobody can say they don't get it right unless you can present a better performing group that has achieved the same result!

Kobojunkiee:
1. Alter anything?
2. The power Jesus Christ gave to His disciples does not alter "anything". Rather within the bounds of the Law, they are to carry out God's commandments.

3. I am a follower of Jesus Christ and not a Christian and yes, I follow every which one of Jesus Christ's, God's Law and Truth in the Kingdom of God. So which of the almost 100 commandments and teachings that make up His Law are my missing?

4. There is no such change given by Jesus Christ who instead declared everyday a sabbath for His followers.

5. Your religious leaders represent the disciples? Are you sure you have ever read anything about Jesus Christ for you to believe such bunkum?

read the books of Moses especially Deuteronomy and tell me whether you are obeying everything there... there are many law in the old testament that we are no longer keeping including planting of only one seed in a land. Even Paul was like"from the Jews I received forty minus one lashes" meaning flogging one for more than 39 times is a sin for them

gud4vvvvv:
■ read the books of Moses especially Deuteronomy and tell me whether you are obeying everything there... there are many law in the old testament that we are no longer keeping including planting of only one seed in a land.
■ Even Paul was like"from the Jews I received forty minus one lashes" meaning flogging one for more than 39 times is a sin for them

The Old Law of Moses was meant to be kept by the Israelites in the Land of Israel which God gave only to the descendants of Abraham AND Isaac AND Jacob. Are you of the blood of Israel and do you equally live in the land of Canaan or something that you would claim you are to keep that Law as well?

God already cursed and scattered all of Israel over 1900 years ago so anyone living under the Law is condemned to perish in the grave. Jesus Christ is instead the Law under which I live and I do obey His every commandments just as He commands of all those who follow Him.

2. Paul was a Jew living in the land of Judea(the Nation of Israel's sister Nation) so it made sense that he would be flogged by the Old Law of the Land. So what claim do you have to that Land or the Old Law?

tctrills:

They added lots of nonbibilical manmade nonsense so no surprises.

FALSE claim of a TRINITARIAN.

Janosky:


FALSE claim of a TRINITARIAN.

And another one. Each of you have a different name for me.
It remains me of the 7 blind men who touched the elephant.

oteneaaron:


After my horrible experience of been a Jehovah's Witness for many years, I currently practice no religion per se.

I have learned to never ever in my life again, allow any man-made religion to come in-between me and my creator.

I have direct access to the Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent creator of the entire cosmos.

I don't need any religion in between.

I'm something of what you could call an ECLECTIC - check your dictionary.



So does that mean you believe in the Trinity just like the Catholic Church and EVERY OTHER Christian Denominations?

If yes, why do you say that you are the only true religion.

Does this mean that "Jesus" never really selected your organization in 1919?

Because of "Jesus" truly selected your organization in 1919 as your ciam, you wouldn't be teaching the same doctrine of Trinity found at Matthew 28 VS 19 just like the Catholic Church and EVERY OTHER Christian denominations.

Where do ECLECTICS draw their own beliefs system?
Man made sources of Egypt - Hermes Trismegistus.

WOKE IBERIBEISM.


Cc: MaxInDHouse.

tctrills:

They added lots of nonbibilical manmade nonsense so no surprises.

Tctrills says that God cursed Adam and Eve and pronounced death to show he loves them
Ask him to reciprocate such love to his son na

Janosky:

Where do ECLECTICS draw their own beliefs system?
Man made sources of Egypt - Hermes Trismegistus.
WOKE IBERIBEISM.

Cc: MaxInDHouse.

I have silenced him with his gra gra!

I told him i know how to deal with fools of his kind because i won't give him a breathing space where he can flow, i will choke him with intelligent reasoning that he won't have the courage to reply me again.

He thought everyone is like those fools he is pushing around into fruitless arguments over their religious beliefs while he is making them a laughing stock secretly!