Sahih_JP:

You have given your interpretation of what you believe a hundred fold blessing means for those who have sacrificed for Christ. Let us hear from Christ what he thinks of your interpretation. He dealt with your type before you were born:

23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,  24Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:  26Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
27 And last of all the woman died also.  28Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.  30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. (Matthew 22: 23-20)

Here is the summary of the answer of Jesus: "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.  30 For [size=18pt] in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage[/size], but are as the angels of God in heaven." (Matthew 22: 23-20)

Is that hard to understand? How many wives did the Quran promise Gabriel who brought the Quran to mohammed? None! because angels do not marry. Now listen to Jesus again: "[size=14pt]in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage but are as the angels of God in heaven[/size]." (Matthew 22: 23-20)

So my Muslim friend, concerning your understanding of the Scriptures you quoted from the Bible:""[size=14pt]Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God[/size]"

vedaxcool:

lol!  after all your huffing and puffing, you only helped in undermining Christianity, as you simply provide that the bible contradicts itself over and over nad over and over .  .  . again. Since we are certain that Jesus promised 100 fold and manifold wives etc., then we can be more than ever be certain that   the biblical Jesus has been made to contradict himself as his promise to give 100 wives in addition to everlasting life in heaven, yet you quoting another verse proves nothing but contradiction, This proves the Islamic point of view that the Bible cannot be relied upon as a means of guidance. Again when Jesus says 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

He actually means that our physical body will occupy heaven or will be sent to hell, this sort of dichotomous teachings of Christ will always be a cause of embarrassment to Christendom, when Christ claims By myself I can do nothing and then Christians will find a Paulish statement to refute it. All in all, I prefer to believe the statement of christ that says I shall give you a 100 folds of wives, since that appears to validate the OT twhich has long proven that Adam and Eve were married in Heaven, and occupied Heaven in physical bodies not angelic Body, I know for you Christains it is easy to ignore salient points, at least Frosbel calls the the OT Old Fashioned and not in tune with modern trends. 

Sahih_JP:

[size=12pt]You thought you knew what the hundred fold meant, but Jesus said you did not. If you were willing to know why your interpretation was wrong your next question should have been: “What did Christ mean by a hundred fold?” Then you would have been told what you missed.

Sahih_JP:

You sound like one of those whom Jesus told, Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and they turned around and said “it is because we have no bread.” Meanwhile Jesus was talking of hypocrisy.

Sahih_JP:

So, until you ask to be enlightened you will not be told. For the light of the Scriptures are pearls for the children of Kingdom. We do not throw our pearls away. We use them to meet needs.

Sahih_JP:

Do you need to understand? If you have that need, you have in the house capable hands to guide you into the light giving scriptures, and we are not huffing and puffin.
But if you think you already know even when Christ has told you “ye do err,” what man can help you?

Sahih_JP:

So  Mr. vedaxcool, what is it going to be for you? This is also a test of character for you: Do you claim you understand, and wish to left without been told what you miss, or do you at this time ask to be brought into understanding?

Sahih_JP:

Caution: Wise men seek understanding, the simple are satisfied with their ignorance. 
Go back and look at the example of your prophet when he received his calling and follow his footsteps:

   Mohammed sought understanding from a Christian uncle-in-law and did not rely on what he thought the experience was. You modern Muslims are either his followers by example or not Muslims at all.

Sahih_JP:

  Vedaxcool, can you humble yourself and ask the Christians to explain what a hundred fold means in that scripture, since Christ has told you, “ye do err”? Mohammed had no problem asking Christians to explain things to him, why would if you are his follower? 

Sahih_JP:

  Christians have held the light to Islam right from the beginning. It was from a Christian that Mohammed sought guidance when he met the cave visitor.

   It was a Christian who told Mohammed that the cave visitor was an angel—Mohammed did not know that, he thought he was being murdered.

   It was Christian who named the cave visitor Gabriel—Mohammed did not know that and the cave visitor never gave a name to him when he commanded him “recite.”

So if Islam claims today that an angel spoke toMohammed and the name of the angel is Gabriel it is because a Christian told Mohammed so.

The very foundation of Islam depends on the interpretation which was given by a Christian to Mohammed.

  The first prophecy given to Mohammed about how he would be persecuted and driven out came from a Christian—Mohammed had no understanding of those things until he was enlightened by a Christian. And it was a sure prophecy which you today mark as the hejira.
   
Don’t push it, Mr. Vedaxcool, don’t push it.

The Islam you practice today owes its very foundation to the insight of a Christian because when Mohammed was called, he had no clue what he had gotten into. A Christian helped Mohammed with one of the pearls of the children of the kingdom, by unlocking the spiritual dimension to the physical experience that baffled Mohammed and Khadijah (mother of the faithful)

So, from where did all proud argument against Christ and his church come? 

Did you read anywhere in that story Mohammed argued with any interpretation given by Waraqa? He listened and obeyed, and Islam was born.

That Mohammed was able to  face the antagonisms of his Meccan relatives is because a Christian with better understanding of the issues of prophecies and the Scriptures of the Holy One, had told him: watch out you would be persecuted and driven out.

So, it was a Christian who prepared Mohammed, a Christian who verified and approved his calling, and a Christian who told him of the immediate outcome of the calling.

Sahih_JP:

The hierarchical relational between Christianity and Islam has been set in the spirit even before Mohammed opened his mouth to recite the first sura: Islam is the student seeking understanding of an experience and Christianity is the teacher and prophet. Islam narrates Christianity interprets.

Sahih_JP:

There are a lot to talk about, and I came here to teach and rub minds with teachers; not to argue with those who should be learning the fundamental principles of spiritual things. When the time comes to wade into deep water you would be informed to hold your breath. The teaching of the houris is kindergarten. Soon I will invite you to advance classes in Islam, and then I would understand if you were confused. At the moment, it is way too early to start stumbling on scriptures that have been clearly explained.

Sahih_JP:

Now tell me Mr. Vedaxcool, do you claim you understand? Or, like your prophet, you would come humbling yourself and asking those to whom it has been given the keys to unlock the mysteries of the King Eternal, the Omnipotent, Ever Living, Ever Present, and the Ancient of Days?

Sahih_JP:

Any Muslim who is too proud to emulate an example set by khadijah and Mohammed has not yet submitted to Allah and is not practicing Islam.

Any Christian that can claim waraqa ws right in his claiming that angel Gabriel visited Muhammad pbuh and still refuse being a muslim must be the greatest Hypocrite the world has ever come across!

Sahih_JP:


Islam is run on the assumption that it was Gabriel who spoke to Mohammed. Man cannot know the name of an angel if the angel never mentioned his name. Was a name given to Mohammed in the cave? How do you know it was Gabriel?  because Waraqa said so!

Sahih_JP:

@ Vedaxcool,

You finally got the message: No man, be he Moses, Abraham or Jacob has been given the power to know the unrevealed names of angels. Waraqa cannot know the name of an angel who he never saw and who never introduced himself.

The name 'Gabriel' was Waraqa's idea because the angel never introduced himself as Gabriel to Mohammed. Islam is based on Waraqa's idea and Mohammed swallowed the bait hook line and sinker. From that time on, each time Mohammed saw a vision of the cave visitor he would claim Gabriel spoke to him, but that name never came from the mouth of the apparition he saw in the cave.

Islam is run on the assumption that it was Gabriel who spoke to Mohammed. Man cannot know the name of an angel if the angel never mentioned his name. Was a name given to Mohammed in the cave? How do you know it was Gabriel? because Waraqa said so!

And I tell you that that the knowledge of the unrevealed names of angels is beyond flesh and blood.

vedaxcool:

this calls for laughter, reminds me of how Jesus followed the devil according to the scriptures, where surprisingly the god you worship allowed the devil to lead him up and down, 

Glad you have come out of the wood works. [size=28pt]You inability to refute the clear fact that Jesus promised 100 fold wives in Mathews, while in Luke Manifold( probably millions of wives  ) wives, - as in big small, talk short, white, black red etc[/size]  , has made you invent Muslims must listen to Christians to understand anything, Lol! such huffing and puffing can only exist in the mind of Hypocritical kafirs. Now to crown your hypocrisy you now turn on Waraqa after rooting for him, I laughed hard at your last post, because it proves my point, you are wholly dishonest, indeed I used your own dishonest strategy against you by showing If waraqa was right then lots of question mark hang upon you. now your lies again shows that your are bent on discrediting Islam, yet You illogical attitude springs new indictment against you, [size=28pt]Muhammad pubh interacted with Gabriel severally saying that had Waraqa not told him it was Gabriel he would never had known who it was tha t spoke to him in the cave is very myopic to say the least, as Gabriel said Read in the name of your lord, creator, . . . that it itself is sufficient[/size]. which remind me had Jesus not been allegedly killed by the Jews would he have committed suicide to save humanity from sin? If you can answer that simple question then the Gabriel issue would be what it is a none issue. Christian weM we muslims do not need you tro validate our believes. evidence is everywhere

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/prophhs.html#mahamad0

Sahih_JP:

Alright, we have agreed to disagree on that; let's move on because the grass is still wet with the morning dew and the work ahead is great.

I appreciate your stopping by to contribute. Hang around just in case something different picks your interest. You know it is not a meaningful discussion if all we hear is "amen" and "ise". We need "no" and "objection!" to have a balance.

[size=14pt]Islamic scholars are mere mortals[/size]. Muhammad, Jesus, etc, etc, etc [as] were mere mortals.

[size=14pt]Muslim scholars can make mistakes[/size]. No one is perfect, because some details of the Quran is not known to any "mere mortal". Do you know the meaning of Alif in Surah Baqarah's first verse?

Father of Ibrahim was mentioned as Azhar. Some scholars denied that very statement, so when you bring up this "Islamic Scholar", I have the right to reject his statement or opinion. The only one among men I can disagree with or doubt his statement, [/b]was Muhammad [as].

Sahih_JP:

@Sweetnecta

Do recall what you told me on the other thread? You said:

The point of human fallibility that is possible (even amongst Muslim scholars) is what I had been trying to explain to Vedaxcool.

That is why I said:
Even though Waraqa was a Christian at that time he was not infallible, especially since the angel did not tell Mohammed his name.

You did say:
You meant agree with and not disagree with was Mohammed. Now ask yourself:
Did the name 'Gabriel' originate from Mohammed? Did the name 'Gabriel' originate from from the cave visitor? Or did the name originate from Waraqa?

If you agree with Mohammed, and Mohammed agreed with Waraqa, then it is Waraqa that you agreed with. And Waraqa was a mere mortal.

Therefore, Waraqa could have been mistaken like the other scholar whose work you disagreed with in the other thread. That is all I am trying to get you to see. Think about it some more, and consider that much about Islam rest on whether Waraqa was right or wrong.

What if Waraqa were wrong, since no man can tell the unrevealed name of angels, just as "alif lam mim" remains a mystery in Sura, Al- Baqarah.

Note: When we wander into the unrevealed dimension of spiritual consciousness, we cannot be so bold and definite because we have no guide. Why would Waraqa's concrete naming of an angel who did not bother to reveal himself, be an exception. What power did Waraqa possess to know the name that was not revealed to Mohammed?  Was Waraqa greater than Mohammed? How come Waraqa knew what Mohammed and Khadijah did not know, even though the couple were the founders of the faith, Islam?

Think Sweetnecta. Think. That is what we came here to do: to provoke thoughts. They are dead who have lost their willingness to think.