ibbo:

The problem with Nigeria is wide scale corruption, and not too many subsidies

.

Well, if subsides work, they would have let our power sector and refineries work, won't they.

Obvoiusly they are not working.

Also, subsides fuel corruption...because they involve something called free money.

Even in the so called US that is an epitome of free market, they still doll out subsidies.

They do production subsides, not price controls, and pay subsidy to cover the resulting loss (which we do here, and said subsidy does not cover the losses resultant).

Our problem in this country is monumental corruption from the highest office in the land to the lowest office in the landm everybody is busy stealing.

Yes, because when you run an government whose sources of revenue are from what raw material we sell, and with a mandate to 'share the revenue' corruption naturally results. Because he or she who is closer to the sharing will benefit more than end user.

Whereas if most of our income was from taxes...people would be incentivsed to keep an eye on how their money is spent, and the government won't do wuru wuru...because any stepping out of line, and kasala go burst for their head.

Allowing a free market provides the disposable income for things like taxes to be paid.

My only annoyance with the church is that it has not been very vocal in condeming the wide spread corruption in this country. Rather they have been hobnobbing with the political class stealing us blind, by giving them recognition instead of ostracizing them. They preach to masses to endure pain and suffering that it is from the LORD, instead of holding their kleptomaniac political leaders accountable.

Well, some churchpeople do so, some do not. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

Nigerias problem is religion and tribalism

nairalanda1:
.

Well, if subsides work, they would have let our power sector and refineries work, won't they.

Obvoiusly they are not working.

Also, subsides fuel corruption...because they involve something called free money.




They do production subsides, not price controls, and pay subsidy to cover the resulting loss (which we do here, and said subsidy does not cover the losses resultant).






Yes, because when you run an government whose sources of revenue are from what raw material we sell, and with a mandate to 'share the revenue' corruption naturally results. Because he or she who is closer to the sharing will benefit more than end user.

Whereas if most of our income was from taxes...people would be incentivsed to keep an eye on how their money is spent, and the government won't do wuru wuru...because any stepping out of line, and kasala go burst for their head.

Allowing a free market provides the disposable income for things like taxes to be paid.




Well, some churchpeople do so, some do not. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

If you read the last part i said the church has not been very vocal, that statement did not connote everybody, it means some have been but a greater majority are not, so i didn't paint everyone with the same brush. I agree with most of your points raised, but the crux of the matter is no matter the name we give it, the US still subsidizes her economy and grandscale corruption is the bane of this country

Another lame post to condemn the Church.

When people post about topics without knowledge of history.

Check the records of christian leaders that have ruled this nation before coming online.

Nairaland1 you have said it all. But your last answer... There is alot of dis unity and corruption in our churches that is why christains can never comand half of the power muslims possess in Nigeria. In other words politically christainity has a very weak voice in Nigeria.

Nigeria is suffering from religion and tribalism.

ibbo:
If you read the last part i said the church has not been very vocal, that statement did not connote everybody, it means some have been but a greater majority are not, so i didn't paint everyone with the same brush. I agree with most of your points raised, but the crux of the matter is no matter the name we give it, the US still subsidizes her economy and grandscale corruption is the bane of this country

1.US subsides work this way...they give their industries tax breaks and grants..ie money. Result...cost of production may go down a bit.

Nigerian subsides? They force the company or sector to sell at a loss, and then pay a subsidy that in principle covers the loss, in practice it does not (due to a host of things, including the depreciating naira, and rising costs of production).

Only the cement companies have something similar to the US In terms of 'subsides'


2.Religion at the end doesn't play much part in the scheme of things. Most religious people listen and don't do. Most of the time clerics do preach against corruption, but do people listen

Also, at the end, the way our economy is set up..ie dependent on sharing revenue, rather than earning it and maximising it...fosters corruption.

.
There is a big Difference between Christianity as Christ preached it and Nigerian Churches

It was the Church that built the European Civilization you see today

babasolution:


Na only America dey this world?

Give another example

Is it only the church that's working in America?

Why is it only church that's working in Nigeria?

Comprehension

Niggers will be always be niggers



It was a mistake giving Nigeria independence

babasolution:
Actually my post isn't about the church but about the colonial GENERATION who destroyed Nigeria.

There's a common denominator about them
All they know and understand is religion.

For the Christians their ultimate focus is church church ,Bible ,God etc.

The Muslims is the same.

They are the generation that killed all thriving industries and created the current booming religion industry in NIG.


That has been their legacy has they bow out,
Religion.

They have built nothing
They have left nothing

Younger generation are building Nigeria from the ground up.

The only thing the colonial GENERATION have built successfully in Nigeria is the religious industry with thriving booming churches worldwide and Islamist fundamentalism.

No technology, no innovation, no economic progress, no infrastructure, no political advancement, no industries,only few businesses,no rule of law,no educational advancements etc .

only
Religion, only religion

Religion has nothing to do with development but the people in it

The most developed countries in the world are religious abi na Christianity make your leaders dey embezzle money? 🙄🙄

The church runs the most organized institutions in Nigeria ranging from schools to hospitals yet your government can't manage theirs despite the billions allocated 🙄🙄

Since Christians or religious people are the problem of Nigeria, Atheists should be the solution nah but no
Atheists in Nigeria are only effective in talking and not productive like their western counterparts

babasolution:
Actually my post isn't about the church but about the colonial GENERATION who destroyed Nigeria.

There's a common denominator about them
All they know and understand is religion.

For the Christians their ultimate focus is church church ,Bible ,God etc.

The Muslims is the same.

They are the generation that killed all thriving industries and created the current booming religion industry in NIG.


That has been their legacy has they bow out,
Religion.

They have built nothing
They have left nothing

Younger generation are building Nigeria from the ground up.

The only thing the colonial GENERATION have built successfully in Nigeria is the religious industry with thriving booming churches worldwide and Islamist fundamentalism.

No technology, no innovation, no economic progress, no infrastructure, no political advancement, no industries,only few businesses,no rule of law,no educational advancements etc .

only
Religion, only religion

You have contributed nothing (just as the people you blame) with this post in fixing Nigeria.
The colonial generation as you put it is not guilty of all you say ails Nigeria.

Yes, it is the CHURCH.

And your post is not about the CHURCH.

It's the church that uses it pulpits and platforms to encourage it congregants to go villages in the sahel regions and
the afforested south and seize their lands and butcher innocent villagers in their farmlands in various Benue enclaves.

It is the CHURCH that encourages its followers to kidnap and rape women, while disembowelling others in the back waters of Jos.

It is the CHURCH gave money to it adherents and told them to enter the church in owo, in Akure and massacred innocent worshippers.

It's in the name of the church that Leah Sharibu was kidnapped and sold into sexual slavery.

The best schools across our landscape are built by jihadists.

It is the CHURCH that that ensured the quota system is enshrined into our academic process.

It is the CHURCH that mandate that politicians not only blindly loot our treasuries, but wickedly go over the seas to invest the said loot.

It is the CHURCH that handicapped our productive capacity, and thereby making us the most import dependent country in the globe.

It is the CHURCH that gave refinery licence to various companies, but turned back and watched as the said companies never built a single refinery except the government propped Dangote.

It's the CHURCH that continually hoard the dollars and made sure artificial scarcity bite the nation severely.

It's the CHURCH that made sure that its marauders beleaguered blue chip companies with high cost of production and forced them to exit our shores for other friendly countries.

Give me more!

I've always known it's the fault of the church.

Oh foolish Galatians who has bewitched you to think thus?

So you claim to be critiquing religion in general, but chose the church as the title of your hopelessly deranged tirade.

The Church that doesn't and has never run Nigeria is responsible for the incompetence of Nigerian leaders even under a Muslim Muslim administration.

There are many things I can say, but all I will say is that it is hard to navigate life as a fool.

It's weird how much obsessed these atheists and their MUDSLIME allies are with Christian money in the form of tithes. As if they think it will go to them if Christians stop paying tithes😂

babasolution:
Actually my post isn't about the church but about the colonial GENERATION who destroyed Nigeria.

There's a common denominator about them
All they know and understand is religion.

For the Christians their ultimate focus is church church ,Bible ,God etc.

The Muslims is the same.

They are the generation that killed all thriving industries and created the current booming religion industry in NIG.


That has been their legacy has they bow out,
Religion.

They have built nothing
They have left nothing

Younger generation are building Nigeria from the ground up.

The only thing the colonial GENERATION have built successfully in Nigeria is the religious industry with thriving booming churches worldwide and Islamist fundamentalism.

No technology, no innovation, no economic progress, no infrastructure, no political advancement, no industries,only few businesses,no rule of law,no educational advancements etc .

only
Religion, only religion

babasolution:
Actually my post isn't about the church but about the colonial GENERATION who destroyed Nigeria.

There's a common denominator about them
All they know and understand is religion.

For the Christians their ultimate focus is church church ,Bible ,God etc.

The Muslims is the same.

They are the generation that killed all thriving industries and created the current booming religion industry in NIG.


That has been their legacy has they bow out,
Religion.

They have built nothing
They have left nothing

Younger generation are building Nigeria from the ground up.

The only thing the colonial GENERATION have built successfully in Nigeria is the religious industry with thriving booming churches worldwide and Islamist fundamentalism.

No technology, no innovation, no economic progress, no infrastructure, no political advancement, no industries,only few businesses,no rule of law,no educational advancements etc .

only
Religion, only religion

Stop lying. Younger generation are building nothing. They are lazy greedy fools without any control whatsoever over themselves.
If they are serious and intelligent as you claim,they would have taken power by now and change things because they do have a path to power. I hope I don't have to explain that to you.
They are dunces following an Agulu miscreant.They are not very intelligent. I had to report one of them to efcc as he was trying to crash the economy because he did not like the naira gaining. I wanted to make the fool a scapegoat but unfortunately the thread was deleted by the time people from ogun state governors office could see it. Compare educated British youths and Nigerian youths,you will weep.
The churches built schools and hospitals. They also had a civilizing influence on the people. It is not intelligent to throw out the baby with the bath water .
Bello was youthful when he became governor: he is now being pursued by efcc. The northern senator that took dollar bribe from Otedola is a youth. In Nigeria the children are worse than their fathers.

Babalegba:
Stop lying. Younger generation are building nothing. They are lazy greedy fools without any control whatsoever over themselves.
If they are serious and intelligent as you claim,they would have taken power by now and change things because they do have a path to power. I hope I don't have to explain that to you.
They are dunces following an Agulu miscreant.They are not very intelligent. I had to report one of them to efcc as he was trying to crash the economy because he did not like the naira gaining. I wanted to make the fool a scapegoat but unfortunately the thread was deleted by the time people from ogun state governors office could see it. Compare educated British youths and Nigerian youths,you will weep.
The churches built schools and hospitals. They also had a civilizing influence on the people. It is not intelligent to throw out the baby with the bath water .
Bello was youthful when he became governor: he is now being pursued by efcc. The northern senator that took dollar bribe from Otedola is a youth. In Nigeria the children are worse than their fathers.

How can children not be worse than their fathers when their fathers where bad in the first place,bad parenting bad children,the older generation destroyed the Nigeria and the youths.

The youths were born into a destroyed Nigeria, the older generation were born into a Nigeria set right by the colonialist and founding fathers, but what did they do with it?

They destroyed it

ShoeGetSize:
So you claim to be critiquing religion in general, but chose the church as the title of your hopelessly deranged tirade.

The Church that doesn't and has never run Nigeria is responsible for the incompetence of Nigerian leaders even under a Muslim Muslim administration.

There are many things I can say, but all I will say is that it is hard to navigate life as a fool.

It's weird how much obsessed these atheists and their MUDSLIME allies are with Christian money in the form of tithes. As if they think it will go to them if Christians stop paying tithes😂

You lack comprehension

Lightman300:
Yes, it is the CHURCH.

And your post is not about the CHURCH.

It's the church that uses it pulpits and platforms to encourage it congregants to go villages in the sahel regions and
the afforested south and seize their lands and butcher innocent villagers in their farmlands in various Benue enclaves.

It is the CHURCH that encourages its followers to kidnap and rape women, while disembowelling others in the back waters of Jos.

It is the CHURCH gave money to it adherents and told them to enter the church in owo, in Akure and massacred innocent worshippers.

It's in the name of the church that Leah Sharibu was kidnapped and sold into sexual slavery.

The best schools across our landscape are built by jihadists.

It is the CHURCH that that ensured the quota system is enshrined into our academic process.

It is the CHURCH that mandate that politicians not only blindly loot our treasuries, but wickedly go over the seas to invest the said loot.

It is the CHURCH that handicapped our productive capacity, and thereby making us the most import dependent country in the globe.

It is the CHURCH that gave refinery licence to various companies, but turned back and watched as the said companies never built a single refinery except the government propped Dangote.

It's the CHURCH that continually hoard the dollars and made sure artificial scarcity bite the nation severely.

It's the CHURCH that made sure that its marauders beleaguered blue chip companies with high cost of production and forced them to exit our shores for other friendly countries.

Give me more!

I've always known it's the fault of the church.

Oh foolish Galatians who has bewitched you to think thus?

You lack comprehension

gammarays:

Religion has nothing to do with development but the people in it

The most developed countries in the world are religious abi na Christianity make your leaders dey embezzle money? 🙄🙄

The church runs the most organized institutions in Nigeria ranging from schools to hospitals yet your government can't manage theirs despite the billions allocated 🙄🙄

Since Christians or religious people are the problem of Nigeria, Atheists should be the solution nah but no
Atheists in Nigeria are only effective in talking and not productive like their western counterparts

My basic point is that the older generation has developed only the church as against any other thing in Nigeria, am not against the church but the foolishness of the older generation

My dad use tell me religion is the problem of Nigeria, na true?

nairalanda1:


Well, you did blame the 'CHURCH' so...


Who in many ways built a lot of modern Nigeria.



Tell that to the few elderly atheists I knew from that generation, plus many of them did not know 'religion' alone, they know a lot of stuff.



Well, I did include south korea and china. And the USSR, so where is the USA story

Plus, the point is, accept that profit needs to be made, and you will get a working nation. Man loves making money, and governments who cotton onto that tend to run more developed nations than others.

Of course, they are not perfect, (China, South korea, US and co have high levels of poverty), but they work.

Nigeria...we haven't accepted that things cost money. Here we are.




Well, the whites don't get much sense...otherwise most communist countries which were white run won't have collapsed.

The thing is, the prosperous white countries are those who run on 1) free markets 2) efficent tax collection 3) rule of law.

We all can do that here, but because it means a period of hardship (as seen in Spain which spent ten to fifteen years of hardship after bringing in the free market before they saw the benefits)...we don't want to do it.

White people pay their power bills, at the price the sector sets, which is why they have power to make more money. We choose to believe in socialism, and incurr a debt and a wrecked power sector to make things equitable. Like them white people who ran the USSR...





Projection much? I just pointed out that the older generation made a mistake by choosing welfarism over free markets...which is why our country does not work

Better read people's comments old chap.





Exceptfor universites, a lot of schools, a lot of industries, and a lot of roads, etc, etc...which they also ruined by not practicing free market,and by not making the tax system work. Instead, socialism, and sharing the money, which needs far more money than we had...hence loans, and more economic ruin.

NIgeria does not want to do free market because it means more suffering. But the socialist way is currently wrecking our economy. APC right now is doing that nonsense to our economy




Because people like you don't think that we should

I have called for removal of subsides on petrol and subsides on power on this site. 90% of the comments I get in response are abusive, calling me a tinubu supproter, and I also have people who troll me for a while in order to get a rise out of me and get me banned from this site.

We only have a partial free market because the government does not have the kind of money for total socialism.




Well, i haven't made excuses for them, have I.?

PROJECTION is a vice you seem to have.

Most countries run on subsidising so many things,not only NIGERIA.

BreconHills:


The next generation will say the same thing to you. Those who forget history will repeat it.

That is why I am highlighting this so as to alert this generation

babasolution:


How can children not be worse than their fathers when their fathers where bad in the first place,bad parenting bad children,the older generation destroyed the Nigeria and the youths.

The youths were born into a destroyed Nigeria, the older generation were born into a Nigeria set right by the colonialist and founding fathers, but what did they do with it?

They destroyed it

Excuses, excuses. My neighbor is a high ranking policeman who taught his children well.
A few months ago his son an undergraduate came home driving a 12 million naira car. A huge furore ensued. He certainly did not copy Yahoo Yahoo from his father.
A disciplined and controlled man gets things done because excuses never ends. Nigerian youths lack discipline and control. Did they learn cultism from their parents. In the old days, cultism was about joviality and drinking palm wine. It is now about violence.

ShoeGetSize:
So you claim to be critiquing religion in general, but chose the church as the title of your hopelessly deranged tirade.

The Church that doesn't and has never run Nigeria is responsible for the incompetence of Nigerian leaders even under a Muslim Muslim administration.

There are many things I can say, but all I will say is that it is hard to navigate life as a fool.

It's weird how much obsessed these atheists and their MUDSLIME allies are with Christian money in the form of tithes. As if they think it will go to them if Christians stop paying tithes😂

Am critiquing the older generation not religion

Babalegba:
Excuses, excuses. My neighbor is a high ranking policeman who taught his children well.
A few months ago his son an undergraduate came home driving a 12 million naira car. A huge furore ensued. He certainly did not copy Yahoo Yahoo from his father.
A disciplined and controlled man gets things done because excuses never ends. Nigerian youths lack discipline and control. Did they learn cultism from their parents. In the old days, cultism was about joviality and drinking palm wine. It is now about violence.

The old days cultism was about joviality and drinking cos times were good,the poverty that generation created created the violent cultism.

You guys really don't know how times have changed,you don't know how good things were for the older generation which they later ruined

Babalegba:
Excuses, excuses. My neighbor is a high ranking policeman who taught his children well.
A few months ago his son an undergraduate came home driving a 12 million naira car. A huge furore ensued. He certainly did not copy Yahoo Yahoo from his father.
A disciplined and controlled man gets things done because excuses never ends. Nigerian youths lack discipline and control. Did they learn cultism from their parents. In the old days, cultism was about joviality and drinking palm wine. It is now about violence.

What made Yahoo Yahoo to thrive in the first place,it was the corrupt standards the older generation created and the ruination of a nation that they produced

babasolution:


Most countries run on subsidising so many things,not only NIGERIA.

And their subsides are mainly production subsides which are paid for by tax revenue and which are different from the consumption subsides we practice here.

The problem with consumption subsides is simple. They can't cover for the cost of production and actual sale price difference. Result is massive issues with industries and whole sectors.

Oh and Nigerian subsides are not funded by tax. Mostly from oil money and loans . And they tend to breed more and more loans.

You really don't like the free market

nairalanda1:


And their subsides are mainly production subsides which are paid for by tax revenue and which are different from the consumption subsides we practice here.

The problem with consumption subsides is simple. They can't cover for the cost of production and actual sale price difference. Result is massive issues with industries and whole sectors.

Oh and Nigerian subsides are not funded by tax. Mostly from oil money and loans . And they tend to breed more and more loans.

You really don't like the free market

Tax on what exactly, what amenities does the government provide that they will collect tax for?

Subsidy in Nigeria is mainly on fuel or electricity which are energy( production subsidies)

What else do they subsidize,
Where are the refineries, why did they ruin it
Where is electricity

Everything cannot be privatised

babasolution:


My basic point is that the older generation has developed only the church as against any other thing in Nigeria, am not against the church but the foolishness of the older generation

You should rather blame the people at the top for the u development.
When the head is spoilt, every other parts are affected

Who told you the older generation developed only churches?
Compare what we had then to what we have now

saddler:

Thiz right here is one of the problems of Nigeria.

A citizen with this mindset will definitely want to go to heaven and will toil day and night wasting valuable time in religious practices; same time that should have been used to develop self as well as contribute to the country.

When you now have millions of people like this in a country, you get a multitude of mentally and physically lazy citizens whose only objective in life is to go to a non-existent heaven

Shut up.

Heaven is not “non existent”.

Thoughtless air head.

Because you attended some cheap westernised school to speak English, you now think you know more than your ancestors who have known the Afterlife for hundreds of thousands of years?

Just say what you want to say without talking ignorant rubbish.

If this temporal life on Earth is all there is, then what is the point of anything?

Everyone might as well be useless and do what they like.

Rubbish.

Tellmeastory:


Shut up.

Heaven is not “non existent”.

Thoughtless air head.

Because you attended some cheap westernised school to speak English, you now think you know more than your ancestors who have known the Afterlife for hundreds of thousands of years?

Just say what you want to say without talking ignorant rubbish.

If this temporal life on Earth is all there is, then what is the point of anything?

Everyone might as well be useless and do what they like.

Rubbish.

Nonsense as expected from a religious zombie.

babasolution:


Tax on what exactly, what amenities does the government provide that they will collect tax for?

Subsidy in Nigeria is mainly on fuel or electricity which are energy( production subsidies)

What else do they subsidize,
Where are the refineries, why did they ruin it
Where is electricity

Everything cannot be privatised

Well, that's why you won't see development.

The sad thing is things cost money. At the end all developed countries, religion or no, are propelled by the free market


Stop blaming religion or the lack thereof by the way


By the way, a production subsidy is paid to a company to reduce production cost. We don't do that here. We force the power and petrol sector to sell at a loss and then a subsidy is paid to cover the loss without taking into account the rising production costs and by extension cost of subsidies

A production subsidy would have involved government giving cash or grants to a working refinery or power station. Doesn't happen here.


And by the way it is the colonial generation that you hate that are responsible for subsides. Infact they even subsidized more than we do today. They stopped because it worsened our debt. And because we ran out of money.