SIRTee15:


Stop lying, Jesus did change how we worshipped when on earth.
First, after the glory of the LORD departed the temple, the building became void.
Anybody could enter the holy of holies and nothing would happen to them.
In fact some Hellenistic Jews during the Seleucid period sacrificed pig on the altar in the temple and nothing happened to them.

Jesus made it clear Jerusalem and the temple is no longer necessary for worship.

Luke 21.5
Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, Jesus said, 6 “These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.”

John 4
19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”
21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Ohyoudidnt:


Jesus did not change the specific place for sacrifices and worship from Jerusalem during his earthly ministry, his teachings and actions led to a transformation in how early Christians understood sacrifice and worship. The focus shifted from external rituals in a physical temple to internal transformation through faith

SIRTee15:


YHWH IS NOT HEBREW.
ANCIENT LEVANTINE KNEW OF A DEITY CALLED YHWH.
YHWH is well known to Edomites, Canaan, Paran and Seir. These people never spoke Hebrew.

SIRTee15:


YHWH is not Hebrew but Semitic.
Archeological Evidence abound which shows YHWH as a deity is known in ancient mesopotamian region. He's just not well known until Abraham came on stage.
YHWH IS YHWH, the name has no alternative in any ancient language.

As at the time the author of genesis was writing, that place was already known as Jehovahjireh meaning YHWH the provider.

AbuTwins:


So what language is YHWH? The term "YHWH" is a representation of the name of God in the Hebrew Bible, often referred to as the Tetragrammaton. It is a sacred name used to refer to the God of Israel. The Hebrew language, including the name "YHWH," was specific to the Israelites and their religious practices.

Ohyoudidnt:
Jesus' teachings and actions brought about a shift in the way early Christians perceived sacrifice and worship, yet he did not completely eliminate the traditional methods of worship.

His teachings and actions of sparked a significant change in the understanding of sacrifice and worship among early Christians, while still acknowledging the importance of the existing worship practices.

Early Christians experienced a transformative shift in their perception of sacrifice and worship due to Jesus' teachings and actions, without completely discarding the traditional modes of worship..

SIRTee15:


YHWH is Semitic, a word shared amongst people who speak the LEVANTINE languages.
Canaanites and Edomites also called God YHWH but they don't speak Hebrew.
The writing of YHWH or even it's vocalisation may differ by culture but the pronunciation and what it meant is the same.
Even ancient Egyptians likely knew of YHWH by evidence of inscriptions resembling YHWH on their walls- a deity called YHWU.

Just like mama and Baba are words for father and mother shared by hundreds of languages in the west African region and even in the world.

My friend study hard. This place is not a joke. If U are not prepared to critic the bible don't start.
Your knowledge of the bible and it's history is very shallow.

AbuTwins:


You're spilling falsehood! All those cultures have their language representation for the supreme being!

And how will YHWH that was never pronounced be understood by others outside Israel?

You're just bragging upon ignorance!

SIRTee15:


I've never seen an obstinate ignorant fellow like yourself. Your knowledge is wack yet U refuse to learn.

I will disgrace u with facts today U won't have the confidence to debate bible anymore.

Now on YHWH, I will show U both biblical and scholars evidence that YHWH is well known outside of Israel even b4 the later became a nation.

Biblical evidence

Egyptians (Exodus 1-15): The Egyptians are called to “know that I am YHWH” throughout the plague narrative, showing they knew of the deity.

Jethro (Exodus 18): The Midianite father-in-law of Moses knew YHWH. Jethro was a Midian priest who acknowledged the mighty of YHWH and mentioned his name multiple times on the book of exodus.

Balaam (Numbers 22-24): Balaam recognized the power of YHWH, had direct encounter with him and mentioned his name when giving his supplications.

Caleb (Num 32:12): The great hero of Judah was a Kenizzite, one of the Canaanite tribes (Gen 15:19).

Gibeonites (Joshua 9): The Canaanite town of Gibeon employed deceit against Israel, but perhaps had some measure of faith in YHWH

Jael (Judges 4-5): The killer of Sisera was a Kenite, a tribe of Canaanites who knew YHWH by name. (Gen 15:19)

Scholars evidence is highlighted below with links...

To say YHWH became known after Moses is intellectual laziness.
If anything modern scholars believed YHWH was introduced to Israel by the Canaanites and a Semitic nomad tribes called Shashu in the levant region.

People had known YHWH long before there was a nation called Israel, they just don't know him well and worshipped him in the midst of polytheism- amongst other gods.
Abraham was the first person to worship YHWH as a monotheist- post the flood era. That's why he's called father of faith.
God called him out in the midst of polytheism civilisation to start a journey of monotheism- worship ONLY YHWH.

AbuTwins:



Even in your attached proof it was clearly written scholars contend it.
Nothing can be said with 100% certainty as you are putting it.
YHWH was still specific to Israel.

SIRTee15:


So I should believe U instead.
Joker.....

SIRTee15:

My friend sacrificial offering was discarded. Who are we offering sacrifice to? A God that already departed the temple.
So who's accepting your sacrifice. Those who continue to sacrifice now practice paganism.

Ohyoudidnt:


From one view maybe but you fail to consider the destruction of the temple in 70 AD by the Romans further changed the practice of worship and sacrifice among the Jews. Without a central place of worship, Jewish religious practices shifted to synagogues and homes, emphasizing prayer, study of the Torah, and acts of kindness as ways to connect with God.

Despite these changes, worship and sacrifice remain central themes in Jewish religious practice. The Jewish people continue to observe traditional rituals such as the Passover seder, Yom Kippur fasting, and the lighting of Shabbat candles. These practices serve as reminders of the importance of faith, community, and connection to God.

SIRTee15:


The glory of God departed the temple in the time of ezekiel. Malachi was the last prophet who experienced the spirit of God prior to coming of John the baptist.
This was long b4 the destruction of the temple in 70AD.
That was why Jesus Christ never took temple worship serious during his time on earth. The tabernacle was empty.

Ohyoudidnt:



Muslims direct their prayers towards the Kaaba during the five daily prayers.

Aemmyjah:



How's that possible in a a spherical planet?

AbuTwins:


Muslims around the world direct their prayers towards the Kaaba in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, during the five daily prayers. This practice is known as facing the qibla. Here's how it works on a spherical planet:

- **Qibla Direction Calculation**: Muslims determine the direction of the Kaaba from their current location using a compass or Qibla compass, which provides the correct direction based on their geographical coordinates.

- **Great Circle Routes**: When Muslims pray towards the Kaaba, they are following great circle routes on the Earth's surface. These routes are the shortest paths between two points on a sphere, such as the Earth.

- **Curvature of the Earth**: The Earth may be a sphere, but for most practical purposes, it can be considered flat at a small scale. So, when Muslims pray, they are effectively facing the curved surface of the Earth towards the Kaaba.

- **Spiritual Symbolism**: The act of facing the Kaaba during prayers is a symbolic gesture of unity among Muslims around the world, regardless of their physical distance from Mecca. It is a way to emphasize the oneness of the Muslim community and their shared beliefs.

Aemmyjah:


You're not serious
Go and study geography properly and answer my question

Aemmyjah:



How's that possible in a a spherical planet?

Ohyoudidnt:


Does the North or South pole change?

This practice is possible geographically through the use of mathematical calculations based on spherical trigonometry to determine the correct direction from any location on Earth to Mecca. While it may seem challenging due to the curvature of the Earth, Muslim scholars have developed methods over centuries to accurately calculate the qibla from anywhere in the world.

The qibla is determined as the shortest path on a great circle passing through a specific location and Mecca. This method allows for precise calculations using coordinates and mathematical formulas. Despite living on a round planet, Muslims are able to face the Kaaba by understanding this mathematical concept and aligning themselves accordingly during prayer.

Aemmyjah:


You're not serious
Go and study geography properly and answer my question

Aemmyjah:


You're not serious either
Show me the trigonometric calculation from your own house or mosque to the kabba

Ohyoudidnt:


In simple terms; you are able to navigate to and mark locations using GPS coordinates aren't you.

𝜃 = 𝑎𝑡𝑎𝑛2(𝑠𝑖𝑛(𝛥𝜆),𝑐𝑜𝑠(𝜙𝑚)*𝑡𝑎𝑛(𝜙) − 𝑠𝑖𝑛(𝜙𝑚)*𝑐𝑜𝑠(𝛥𝜆))

Where:
𝜃 is the angle between true north and Qibla direction.

𝛥𝜆 is the difference in longitude between Mecca and the current location.

𝜙𝑚 is the latitude of Mecca.

𝜙 is the latitude of the current location.

Aemmyjah:



😂 😂 😂
A Muslim guy that is selling potatoes suddenly stops his cart somewhere and find a spot to start praying
How e take calculate am?

AbuTwins:


Why did you bring what scholars contend here as absolute truth?

Na me suppose tear you slap!

Ohyoudidnt:


Following this submission of yours does this then imply that the Biblical God allowed people to just worship in the temples in vain pending it's destruction?

Where does this put God's mercy? If his glory departs from the temple in response to man's sin, does this mean that his mercy is lost as well?

Do you imply that before this time there had not been worse or mores sinful acts?

In Islam; Allah's mercy supersedes his anger.

When the believers in Our revelations come to you, say, “Peace be upon you! Your Lord has taken upon Himself to be Merciful. Whoever among you commits evil ignorantly ˹or recklessly˺ then repents afterwards and mends their ways, then Allah is truly All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” Q6:54

Say, ˹O Prophet, that Allah says,˺ “O My servants who have exceeded the limits against their souls! Do not lose hope in Allah’s mercy, for Allah certainly forgives all sins.He is indeed the All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Q39:53



"And [mention] when We made the House a place of return for the people and [a place of] security. And take, [O believers], from the standing place of Abraham a place of prayer. And We charged Abraham and Ishmael, [saying], "Purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who are staying [there] for worship and those who bow and prostrate [in prayer].Q2:125

This verse indicates that the Kaaba was established as a place of worship and security for all people. Despite the sins of mankind, the Kaaba has remained a focal point for Muslims around the world to turn to in prayer and unity.

How can your God's glory be driven away by his creation?

SIRTee15:


The physical manifestation of God in the temple is a privilege not a right.

God doesn't need to the present in the temple to receive worship or forgive sins.
God's presence wasn't physically with Noah or Abraham when they offered sacrificed yet their offerings were accepted.

The nation of Israel was a theocracy with God as the Head. God wanted to be with them physically as a manifestation of his authority over the Israelites.
But for these to happen, the Israelites had to adhere to the constitution given to them by God as a sign of agreement btw the subjects and YHWH.

Unfortunately the Israelites didn't regard the covenant and repeatedly broke the agreement. There was disobedience, rebellion and idolatry. Finally, they rejected God and demanded for a king.

It was only a matter of time the glory of God departs the temple.

This has nothing to do with God accepting their worship. He doesn't need to be in the temple for him to accept their worship.

Ohyoudidnt:
.

This is now very interesting.

How exactly did God manifest in the temple before?

AbuTwins:

And more so, Abraham's sons are to be the nation of God! And truly, from Ismael came only Muhammad as the only Arab Prophet!
All nations had Prophets!

SIRTee15:


Shikenah glory

Ohyoudidnt:


Would this not be mankind getting overtly carried away by natural occurrence? Such as an earthquake, eclipse, hurricane etc.?

I see mention of clouds in Exodus? This requirement of a physical manifestation of God only shows adherence to idolatry.

Deuteronomy 4:12 and John 5:37 emphasize that God does not possess a physical body or form that can be seen.

SIRTee15:


Do U understand what shikenah glory is?
Its the presence of God filled with it's glory. Its an immaterial entity.

Your assertion of idolatry is very funny, coming from a religion that sees bowing before a black stone as worship.