SIRTee15:


Its a psalm of David.

OK, David wrote this one! Alright!

Jesus said David was in the spirit when he described what he wrote down in psalm 110. It wasn't like David actually saw LORD with his eyes or had a direct view of heaven.

Where was Jesus's name mentioned in the Psalm verse?

Visions are revealed in Anthropomorphism. It means what's been revealed is designed to make sense to the human mind.
In visions, Jesus is always distinct from the Father. This is seen in book of revelation where the Lamb of God (Jesus) is seen as distinct from God Almighty. Read revelation 4&5 for context.

[quote]Yet Jesus calls himself the First and the last, beginning and the end in Revelation 22, a title reserved only for God.

The first of what? The Last of what? The beginning of what, the end of what?

What is reserved for God is “I am the first and I am the last, and apart from me there is no God." Isaiah 44:6 Jesus does dare to call himself God directly or openly until you reinterpret one verse and relate it with what God said somewhere else!

Also Daniel 7 described ancient of days( God Almighty) giving divinity to who is like the son of man (Jesus).

Did Daniel mention Jesus? "The metaphor "like the son of man" can only mean Jesus? You really need to be sane! Who is being referred to in the context?

That YHWH and Adonai are used separately in Psalm 110 or anywhere else in the doesn't negate the concept of trinity.

It does! Na only God be God! Your Jesus dey separate! You worship more than one Gods clearly!

Psalm 110 is a messianic prophesy. Jews understood it to be a messianic prophesy and the lord- adoni is believed to be the Messiah seated on the right hand of God.

Now you brought the Jews into this matter. Do the Jews believe in your Daniel 7:13 verse as referring to Jesus? adoni is used for man of authority not God! Why not comment on this?

In the new testament the titles has been changed to make Jesus God as usual!

Right hand of God means having the same status and honour as God. This makes [b]the lord [/b]on Psalm 110 a divine Messiah. The Jews coined the term son of God for this divine Messiah.

And that's why I asked the question U running away from...

If Jesus sits at the right hand of God them who sits at the left side? Jesus's mother and God's wife?
The sitting room picture should also include Jesus's wife and children too!
You guys won't fail to embarrassingly describe God just like humans fully!

According to the Koran, if the Messiah is truly the son of God, should he be worshipped.

At least the Qur'an got that right...that's why U are embarrassed by that verse.

U are embarrassed by the truth.

I am not here to answer questions from the Qur'an if i don't want to. The thread is about how Jesus was made God for Christians!
And the truth is that Jesus was made God for you with so many theories and lies around so many Jewish scriptures that are not even related to Jesus contextually that you keep pinning it on Jesus!

I will assume we don't need to take into consideration the contexts of each verses since you just cherry picked the verses!

Westerhoffe:



And then He said these:

John 20 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
²⁰ And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
²¹ Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, EVEN SO SEND I YOU.

This show Jesus was merely a messenger! Someone superior to him sent him! A man approved of God indeed!

Matthew 28 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁸ And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
¹⁹ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
²⁰ Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

This is a lovely verse! Mention just one disciple of Jesus who ever baptized anyone in the name of the father, and the son and of the holy Ghost as Jesus commanded?

Here are a few examples:
Acts 2:38: "Peter replied, 'Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"

Acts 8:16: "Because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

Acts 10:48: "So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."

Mark 16 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁵ And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
¹⁶ He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mark 16:9-20 are not included in some translations of the Bible (e.g. ESV, NIB and CIB). There were inserted later! Those verses are dubious insertions!

Acts 1 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁷ And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
⁸ But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Any further questions?

Are you a witness now? lol!
So which of the disciples reached Africa?

Ken4Christ:


Your Quran puts your Allah and your Jesus at the same level. Do you want me to show you?

You never finish you Bible you want to do the same retranslation you do to your Bible to the Qur'an!

Allah says while narrating about Jesus:
"He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;" Qur'an 19:30

AbuTwins:
OK, David wrote this one! Alright!

Where was Jesus's name mentioned in the Psalm verse?

.

AbuTwins:


You never finish you Bible you want to do the same retranslation you do to your Bible to the Qur'an!

Allah says while narrating about Jesus:
"He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;" Qur'an 19:30

Quran 9:31
They take their rabbis and their monks for their lords apart from Allah, and also the Messiah, son of Mary, whereas they were commanded to worship none but the One True God. There is no god but He. Exalted be He above those whom they associate with Him in His Divinity.

Explain the passage above.

Ken4Christ:


Quran 9:31
They take their rabbis and their monks for their lords apart from Allah, and also the Messiah, son of Mary, whereas they were commanded to worship none but the One True God. There is no god but He. Exalted be He above those whom they associate with Him in His Divinity.

Explain the passage above.

1. They Jews and Christians worship their Rabbis and Monks as lords apart from Allah! They create rules for them and they follow sheepishly!
2. This verse critically criticizes the Christians who Christians are associating to God!

You said the Qur'an puts Allah and Jesus at the same level.

I showed you where Jesus called himself slave of Allah!

The verse you brought had Rabbi, Monks and Jesus!

AbuTwins:



Where was Jesus's name mentioned in the Psalm verse?

If U actually serious about looking for Jesus name in the old testament, then don't mention me again. I'm not here to debate an unserious clown and a time waster.

AbuTwins:


The first of what? The Last of what? The beginning of what, the end of what?

What is reserved for God is “I am the first and I am the last, and apart from me there is no God." Isaiah 44:6 Jesus does dare to call himself God directly or openly until you reinterpret one verse and relate it with what God said somewhere else!

This clown doesn't know Jesus called himself the first and the last in the new testament.


Revelation 22
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”


I know Allah also called himself the first and the last in the Koran. So my question is why is Allah stealing Jesus divine title?

AbuTwins:

Did Daniel mention Jesus?

Another stupid question. No he mentioned Muhammed.

AbuTwins:

"The metaphor "like the son of man" can only mean Jesus? You really need to be sane! Who is being referred to in the context?

Daniel 7. 13 is a messianic prophesy. Even Jews consider it a messianic prophesy. The son of man described in the passage is the Messiah.
And Jesus was called like the son of man again when John while in the spirit saw Jesus in heaven.

Revelation 1

12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Jesus is like the son of man in heaven!!! confirming what was written in Daniel 7.13
And another verse where Jesus called himself the first and the Last- take note.

AbuTwins:

It does! Na only God be God! Your Jesus dey separate! You worship more than one Gods clearly!

Go and read anthropomorphism my friend. Learn theology and stop talking like an ignorant person.
I leave u with this verse in Genesis to chew on.

Genesis 19.
24 Then the YAHWEH rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from YAHWEH out of the heavens.

Here we can see YHWH on earth calling on YHWH in heaven. So how many YHWH do we have in the old testament?
Remember the Jews who compiled the old testament believe in only one YHWH.

AbuTwins:

Now you brought the Jews into this matter. Do the Jews believe in your Daniel 7:13 verse as referring to Jesus? adoni is used for man of authority not God! Why not comment on this?

The Jews believe both psalm 110 and Daniel 7.13 are both messianic prophesies describing a divine Messiah.
The word adonai is another title for God while adoni is master which is for humans. There's biblical scholarly debate whether the word used originally is Adonai or adoni.
Septuagint our oldest extant bible manuscript written 250 BC wrote it as Adonai meaning another name for God.
The Masoretic text which is the official Hebrew bible written 900AD claim it's adoni- master.
I dont want to go into debate on this adonai/adoni....but the point is the Lord/lord in psalm 110 is referred to as the Messiah by 2nd temple
judaism.
This person cannot be an ordinary human because the passage described him as a king and a priest simultaneously who will reign forever.
He is described as someone after the order of Melchizedek who we know to be a priest forever and has no end or beginning. These are divine attributes.
No matter how U twist it the person sitting on the right hand is a divine being- there's no 2 way about it.
That's why 2nd temple Jews call him divine Messiah.

AbuTwins:

In the new testament the titles has been changed to make Jesus God as usual!


If Jesus sits at the right hand of God them who sits at the left side? Jesus's mother and God's wife?
The sitting room picture should also include Jesus's wife and children too!
You guys won't fail to embarrassingly describe God just like humans fully!

This is your dum.best statement ever. Its like U don't read b4 typing.
Do U understand the meaning of figure is speech at all or we are to assume U didn't have adequate formal education enough to decipher metaphorical statement.
Or should I ask U...did U go to university?
I clearly explained to U what sitting at the right hand of God meant- having same honour and status as God. I even brought a screenshot as evidence.
Yet U came here with literal understanding of the phrase.
God is a spirit, he has no hand and doesn't sit. He's not Allah. Get that right.
That why I told U to go and read anthropomorphism in order understand visions in the bible

NOW SAY AFTER ME, SITTING ON THE RIGHT HAND IS A JEWISH TRADITION FIGURE OF SPEECH MEANING HAVING SAME STATUS AND HONOUR.

That's why the priest and Pharisees were mad when Jesus used that word during his trial. It was blasphemy!!!

Matthew 26

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66 What do you think?”

“He is worthy of death,” they answered.

AbuTwins:

I am not here to answer questions from the Qur'an if i don't want to. The thread is about how Jesus was made God for Christians!
And the truth is that Jesus was made God for you with so many theories and lies around so many Jewish scriptures that are not even related to Jesus contextually that you keep pinning it on Jesus!

🥱🥱🥱 What's my one if U answer it or not.
As if I can't go to surah 42.81 and bring the embarrassing verse her for people to read what U Muslims are hiding.

I will continue to harass U Muslims with that verse until the contradiction of that verse is perfected in your skulls.
That verse is a clear prove your Allah is polytheistic in thinking.
Imagine saying he doesn't mind sharing his glory and divinity with another being if such person actually exist.
Chai....Muslims have been defrauded.

SIRTee15:

If U actually serious about looking for Jesus name in the old testament, then don't mention me again. I'm not here to debate an unserious clown and a time waster.

Of course you can stop responding to me. When you look for anything in the Jewish scriptures to prove that Jesus died things that were not believed by the Jews themselves!

This clown doesn't know Jesus called himself the first and the last in the new testament.


Revelation 22
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13[b] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.[/b]
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”


I know Allah also called himself the first and the last in the Koran. So my question is why is Allah stealing Jesus divine title?

Where did Jesus call himself so in the Gospels? Jesus didn't appear in Revelations. Probably John was dreaming! And Paul has said Satan masquerades as angel of light! John and Paul were really seeing Satan!

Actually, Jesus never spoke those words while alive and that is clear!

Where did Jesus call himself so in the Gospels? Another stupid question. No he mentioned Muhammed.

So Jesus is the only son of man in the Bible?

Daniel 7. 13 is a messianic prophesy. Even Jews consider it a messianic prophesy. The son of man described in the passage is the Messiah.

So why did the Jews label Jesus a criminal and a bastard if the prophecy was about him?

And Jesus was called like the son of man again when John while in the spirit saw Jesus in heaven.

Revelation 1

12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Jesus is like the son of man in heaven!!! confirming what was written in Daniel 7.13
And another verse where Jesus called himself the first and the Last- take note.

Abeg no dey mention Revelations to me again as no be dream i dey discuss here! Jesus forgot to mention he was the first and last before them kill am for Bible? Jesus did forgot to appoint Paul too? There are so many things he forgot!

Go and read anthropomorphism my friend. Learn theology and stop talking like an ignorant person.
I leave u with this verse in Genesis to chew on.

Genesis 19.
24 Then the YAHWEH rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from YAHWEH out of the heavens.

Here we can see YHWH on earth calling on YHWH in heaven. So how many YHWH do we have in the old testament?
Remember the Jews who compiled the old testament believe in only one YHWH.

How does this mean Yahweh is two or three?

New International Version
Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens.

New Living Translation
Then the LORD rained down fire and burning sulfur from the sky on Sodom and Gomorrah.

English Standard Version
Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven.

The Jews believe both psalm 110 and Daniel 7.13 are both messianic prophesies describing a divine Messiah.
The word adonai is another title for God while adoni is master which is for humans. There's biblical scholarly debate whether the word used originally is Adonai or adoni.

It is adoni here! Na NT change am! Stop the lie!

Septuagint our oldest extant bible manuscript written 250 BC wrote it as Adonai meaning another name for God.
The Masoretic text which is the official Hebrew bible written 900AD claim it's adoni- master.
I dont want to go into debate on this adonai/adoni....but the point is the Lord/lord in psalm 110 is referred to as the Messiah by 2nd temple
judaism.
This person cannot be an ordinary human because the passage described him as a king and a priest simultaneously who will reign forever.
He is described as someone after the order of Melchizedek who we know to be a priest forever and has no end or beginning. These are divine attributes.
No matter how U twist it the person sitting on the right hand is a divine being- there's no 2 way about it.
That's why 2nd temple Jews call him divine Messiah.

You must translate and retranslate to make Jesus God!
You are proving me to be correct!

This is your dum.best statement ever. Its like U don't read b4 typing.
Do U understand the meaning of figure is speech at all or we are to assume U didn't have adequate formal education enough to decipher metaphorical statement.
Or should I ask U...did U go to university?
I clearly explained to U what sitting at the right hand of God meant- having same honour and status as God. I even brought a screenshot as evidence.
Yet U came here with literal understanding of the phrase.
God is a spirit, he has no hand and doesn't sit. He's not Allah. Get that right.
That why I told U to go and read anthropomorphism in order understand visions in the bible

NOW SAY AFTER ME, SITTING ON THE RIGHT HAND IS A JEWISH TRADITION FIGURE OF SPEECH MEANING HAVING SAME STATUS AND HONOUR.

That's why the priest and Pharisees were mad when Jesus used that word during his trial. It was blasphemy!!!

Matthew 26

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66 What do you think?”

“He is worthy of death,” they answered.

Must you always tell lies like this? How many visions of God on throne do we have in the Bible?
Are they figurative too?

🥱🥱🥱 What's my one if U answer it or not.
As if I can't go to surah 42.81 and bring the embarrassing verse her for people to read what U Muslims are hiding.

I will continue to harass U Muslims with that verse until the contradiction of that verse is perfected in your skulls.
That verse is a clear prove your Allah is polytheistic in thinking.
Imagine saying he doesn't mind sharing his glory and divinity with another being if such person actually exist.
Chai....Muslims have been defrauded.

You sabi lie bro, i will give that to you!
You did prove me right sha!
A Christian has to retranslate verses to derive a divine Jesus!

There's actually no verse Jesus called himself God!

Na Exegesis and Eisegesis reward you with the Nicene creed!

AbuTwins:

I can't decide for you as it is not my business!


I have explained MY DEFINITION of "whole" in this context to you!

Na so Jesus spoke Aramaic even his disciples no understand am!

Of course Jesus allegedly did same!
And it made sense to many like you!

Your opinion!

Look at @color part, read it slowly and focus on @underline part, then tell me why I should take you serious.

The funny thing is, this thread is about how some WORDS were misinterpreted (i.e given wrong meanings according to you) meanwhile that's exactly what you did.

AbuTwins:
Of course you can stop responding to me. When you look for anything in the Jewish scriptures to prove that Jesus died things that were not believed by the Jews themselves!

Good, the Jews were awaiting the Messiah, that's what the old testament is about. The name of Jesus was revealed as the Messiah in the new testament NOT the old testament.
Looking for the name of Jesus in the old testament is plain idiocy.

AbuTwins:

Where did Jesus call himself so in the Gospels? Jesus didn't appear in Revelations. Probably John was dreaming! And Paul has said Satan masquerades as angel of light! John and Paul were really seeing Satan!

Actually, Jesus never spoke those words while alive and that is clear!

Bible illiterate.
What's the gospel - the good news of Jesus is the gospel. These are words spoken by Jesus Christ.
When U open the New testament scriptures, the words mark in red letters are the gospel. These are the words of Jesus.
These are found in the gospels of mark, Matthew, John, Luke; also the acts of apostle and the book of revelation.

Its your business if U think vision doesn't count. Yet want us to accept the vision of Muhammed as true and genuine. That's serious mental gymnastics in display.
Muhammed never saw any of the patriarch face to face, never saw God face to face. No evidence he spoke to an angel. Everything he gave u guys were his own words.
Have U ever thought he could be psychotic and saying things made up in his schizophrenic mind.

At least people with Paul saw the light and confirmed hearing sound from heaven. They witnessed a supernatural encounter.
Moreover, after the encounter, God sent a prophet named Ananias to open Paul's blind eyes and assure him he's now an apostle of Christ.

U guys don't have anything close to above as evidence of Muhammed's prophethood.
What U have is a violent spirit smashing Muhammad to the ground n a Unitarian Christian called waraka telling Muhammad he's a prophet and promised to teach him the scripture
No eye witness to corroborate the truth about Muhammed. None, if that doesn't sound like a scam I don't know what else to tell U.

AbuTwins:

So Jesus is the only son of man in the Bible?

Jesus is the only person called son of man in heaven

AbuTwins:

So why did the Jews label Jesus a criminal and a bastard if the prophecy was about him?

Pls learn to interpret the old testament and new testament independently. That Jews believed in the Messiah doesn't mean they think the Messiah is Jesus.

Its U Muslims are the ones that merged both together. That's why if I ask U now why is jesus the Messiah in the Qur'an, na another wahala be dat.

AbuTwins:

Abeg no dey mention Revelations to me again as no be dream i dey discuss here! Jesus forgot to mention he was the first and last before them kill am for Bible? Jesus did forgot to appoint Paul too? There are so many things he forgot!

No Jesus didn't forget, the disciple just couldn't handle too many info.
John 16.12
“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

AbuTwins:

How does this mean Yahweh is two or three?
New International Version
Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens.

New Living Translation
Then the LORD rained down fire and burning sulfur from the sky on Sodom and Gomorrah.

English Standard Version
Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven.

YHWH is translated as LORD in English bible. That verse clearly mentioned 2 YHWH. how is that possible? Thought YHWH is one!!!!

AbuTwins:

It is adoni here! Na NT change am! Stop the lie!

You must translate and retranslate to make Jesus God!
You are proving me to be correct!

The Septuagint bible that wrote Adonai as second person in psalm 110 was written 250 yrs b4 birth of Jesus Christ.
So I dont understand the Christian lens U talking about
The writers of the gospel quoted from the Septuagint which rightly said 'THe LORD said unto my Lord'
The Masoretic written 900 yrs after Jesus Christ insisted the word was lord.
So which one was biased and may have been influenced by the Christian lens.
The answer is clear.

AbuTwins:


Must you always tell lies like this? How many visions of God on throne do we have in the Bible?
Are they figurative too?

Go and read anthropomorphism and stop constituting nuisance here.

AbuTwins:

You sabi lie bro, i will give that to you!
You did prove me right sha!
A Christian has to retranslate verses to derive a divine Jesus!

There's actually no verse Jesus called himself God!

Na Exegesis and Eisegesis reward you with the Nicene creed!

Jesus on earth wasn't physically God. Instead he's physically the son of God which means he has the same divinity as in the Father.
That's why I've asking U multiple times- if Jesus is truly the son of God should he be worshipped.
The answer to above question will definitely end this debate.

Emusan:


Look at @color part, read it slowly and focus on @underline part, then tell me why I should take you serious.

The funny thing is, this thread is about how some WORDS were misinterpreted (i.e given wrong meanings according to you) meanwhile that's exactly what you did.

Yes, you are right!

Everything is represented in an ironic form!
God is one (but interpreted as three in one).

You don't need take me serious!

SIRTee15:


Good, the Jews were awaiting the Messiah, that's what the old testament is about. The name of Jesus was revealed as the Messiah in the new testament NOT the old testament.
Looking for the name of Jesus in the old testament is plain idiocy.

The name from the Old testament is Immanuel. But no one ever called Jesus by that name. All na lie!

How can a name be revealed later when the Jews didn't read the NT? A Prophecy with no name!
Na peak of idiocy be this bro!

Bible illiterate.
What's the gospel - the good news of Jesus is the gospel. These are words spoken by Jesus Christ.
When U open the New testament scriptures, the words mark in red letters are the gospel. These are the words of Jesus.
These are found in the gospels of mark, Matthew, John, Luke; also the acts of apostle and the book of revelation.

Its your business if U think vision doesn't count. Yet want us to accept the vision of Muhammed as true and genuine. That's serious mental gymnastics in display.
Muhammed never saw any of the patriarch face to face, never saw God face to face. No evidence he spoke to an angel. Everything he gave u guys were his own words.
Have U ever thought he could be psychotic and saying things made up in his schizophrenic mind.

At least people with Paul saw the light and confirmed hearing sound from heaven. They witnessed a supernatural encounter.
Moreover, after the encounter, God sent a prophet named Ananias to open Paul's blind eyes and assure him he's now an apostle of Christ.

U guys don't have anything close to above as evidence of Muhammed's prophethood.
What U have is a violent spirit smashing Muhammad to the ground n a Unitarian Christian called waraka telling Muhammad he's a prophet and promised to teach him the scripture
No eye witness to corroborate the truth about Muhammed. None, if that doesn't sound like a scam I don't know what else to tell U.

You sabi type nonsense mixed with lies. The life of Jesus was written in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and maybe Acts. Jesus was never in Revelations. And you know that is the truth!

You even had to lie that there was no eye witness with the Prophet when Angel Gabriel visited him as a man in the popular Hadith in the presence of his companions! You sabi lie o!

Jesus is the only person called son of man in heaven

We never reach heaven! Na earth we still dey! Is Jesus the only son of man in the Bible?

Pls learn to interpret the old testament and new testament independently. That Jews believed in the Messiah doesn't mean they think the Messiah is Jesus.

Its U Muslims are the ones that merged both together. That's why if I ask U now why is jesus the Messiah in the Qur'an, na another wahala be dat.

Jesus is the Messiah in the Qur'an, the messiah is the slave of Allah sent to the children of Israel (Qur'an 19:30--). So where is the wahala?

No Jesus didn't forget, the disciple just couldn't handle too many info.
John 16.12
“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

He did forgot the hour too just as he forgot to tell you he was God and equal with the father!

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32

YHWH is translated as LORD in English bible. That verse clearly mentioned 2 YHWH. how is that possible? Thought YHWH is one!!!!

New Living Translation puts the sentence appropriately
Then the LORD rained down fire and burning sulfur from the sky on Sodom and Gomorrah.

The LORD mentioned twice was mere emphasis.

But you guys always fish for trinity in the Bible
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(24) The Lord (Jehovah) rained . . . from the Lord (from Jehovah).--Many commentators, following the Council of Sirmium, see in this repetition of the name of Jehovah an indication of the Holy Trinity, as though God the Son rained down fire from God the Father. More correctly Calvin takes it as an emphatic reiteration of its being Jehovah's act. Jehovah had mysteriously manifested Himself upon earth by the visit of the three angels to Abraham, but His activity on earth is one with His willing in heaven.

This is still proving the title of this thread correctly! There's always a council to deify Jesus! A council to deify the Spirit! Many Councils to fix things to the Bible!

The Septuagint bible that wrote Adonai as second person in psalm 110 was written 250 yrs b4 birth of Jesus Christ.
So I dont understand the Christian lens U talking about
The writers of the gospel quoted from the Septuagint which rightly said 'THe LORD said unto my Lord'
The Masoretic written 900 yrs after Jesus Christ insisted the word was lord.
So which one was biased and may have been influenced by the Christian lens.
The answer is clear.

Of course the answer is clear!

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(1) The Lord said . . .--The usual prophetic phrase, generally translated, "Thus saith," &c. (See Note, Psalm 36:1.)
The psalmist may possibly be quoting an old prophetic saying, but, according to the usual way in which the expression is used, it marks an immediate inspiration.

My Lord.--Heb., adoni, an address of honour to those more noble than the speaker, or superior in rank: to a father, Genesis 31:35; to a brother, Numbers 12:11; a royal consort, 1Kings 1:17-18; to a prince, 1Kings 3:17; with addition of the royal title, "my Lord, O king," 2Samuel 14:19. . . .

Once again you.....

Go and read anthropomorphism and stop constituting nuisance here.

God is unlike man! Na Councils brought about such theories!

Jesus on earth wasn't physically God. Instead he's physically the son of God which means he has the same divinity as in the Father.
That's why I've asking U multiple times- if Jesus is truly the son of God should he be worshipped.
The answer to above question will definitely end this debate.

Why would God need a son?
Why would God share his divinity?
So Jesus was 100% human and not God at all while on earth?
If Jesus was truly the son of God, we'll have to find out how God gave birth to him? By reproduction, adoption or creation?
But since Jesus still worshipped God and claimed he is going to his God who is our God then we'll still worship the God he worshipped not him!

Allah already states clearly He begets not nor is He begotten!
And Anthropomorphism does not work in Islam as regards God!

AbuTwins:

Why would God need a son?
Why would God share his divinity?
So Jesus was 100% human and not God at all while on earth?
If Jesus was truly the son of God, we'll have to find out how God gave birth to him? By reproduction, adoption or creation?
But since Jesus still worshipped God and claimed he is going to his God who is our God then we'll still worship the God he worshipped not him!

So why did your Quran say if Allah has a son, the son should be worshipped.
Obviously what U wrote up there contradict surah 44.81
Why did Muhammed gave such blasphemous statement. Why did he say if Jesus is truly the son of God, he would be the first to worship Jesus.

AbuTwins:

Allah already states clearly He begets not nor is He begotten!
And Anthropomorphism does not work in Islam as regards God!

So if anthropomorphism doesn't work in islam, then are U saying Allah truly has a visible shin?
Is that what U saying because a lot of your colleagues here denied the existence of a visible shin.

AbuTwins:







Of course the answer is clear!

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(1) The Lord said . . .--The usual prophetic phrase, generally translated, "Thus saith," &c. (See Note, Psalm 36:1.)
The psalmist may possibly be quoting an old prophetic saying, but, according to the usual way in which the expression is used, it marks an immediate inspiration.

My Lord.--Heb., adoni, an address of honour to those more noble than the speaker, or superior in rank: to a father, Genesis 31:35; to a brother, Numbers 12:11; a royal consort, 1Kings 1:17-18; to a prince, 1Kings 3:17; with addition of the royal title, "my Lord, O king," 2Samuel 14:19. . . .

Once again you.....

God is unlike man! Na Councils brought about such theories!

So what we doing now is just back and forth which would never end. At this junction it's pointless.

But I will like to teach u some basic things about the bible and theology because it shows u deficient in knowledge in some aspect and U confusing things up and down.

The word lord.
Now this word is used in three different ways in the bible. The English bible substituted some Hebrew word with lord for easier comprehension and usage, and will discuss it here...

LORD- when U see LORD in the English bible, it's the word for YHWH. The Hebrew bible will have YHWH in those places.

Lord- this word is for Adonai, another name of God in the bible. Lord is not used for anyone else in the bible except God. The tanakh will have Adonai in places English bible writes Lord.

lord- adoni is simply master. This is for humans and never used for God in the bible.

Now the Septuagint bible written by Jews and not Christians in 250 BC which is 250 yrs b4 any Christian was born used the word Lord for the 2nd person in psalm 110.
So psalm 110 verse 1 in Septuagint will read ' YHWH said unto my adonai' Both are names for God alone.

The Jews in the 2nd temple Judaism believe. Psalm 110 is messianic prophecy for a divine Messiah. The Christians built on this and said Jesus is the divine Messiah talked about in psalm 110 since Jesus spoke about it.

Now when the rabbinical Jews complied the Masoretic text now the official hebrew bible in 900AD, they claimed the word is lord and not Lord.
Thus psalm 110.1 in Hebrew bible read 'YHWH said unto my master'.

The rabbinical Jews admitted the psalm is about the Messiah but now rejected a divine Messiah. Instead they insist the Messiah is just a normal human being and not a divine person.

This shows it's the Jews that have changed their understanding of psalm 110 possible influenced by Christian claim of Jesus fulfilling verses like psalm 110.

This explanation is not for argument but to give u and Christians historical context to psalm 110.

Your argument that it was Christians that changed the verse is invalid and not congruent with historical context .

SIRTee15:


So what we doing now is just back and forth which would never end. At this junction it's pointless.

But I will like to teach u some basic things about the bible and theology because it shows u deficient in knowledge in some aspect and U confusing things up and down.

The word lord.
Now this word is used in three different ways in the bible. The English bible substituted some Hebrew word with lord for easier comprehension and usage, and will discuss it here...

LORD- when U see LORD in the English bible, it's the word for YHWH. The Hebrew bible will have YHWH in those places.

Lord- this word is for Adonai, another name of God in the bible. Lord is not used for anyone else in the bible except God. The tanakh will have Adonai in places English bible writes Lord.

lord- adoni is simply master. This is for humans and never used for God in the bible.

Now the Septuagint bible written by Jews and not Christians in 250 BC which is 250 yrs b4 any Christian was born used the word Lord for the 2nd person in psalm 110.
So psalm 110 verse 1 in Septuagint will read ' YHWH said unto my adonai' Both are names for God alone.

The Jews in the 2nd temple Judaism believe. Psalm 110 is messianic prophecy for a divine Messiah. The Christians built on this and said Jesus is the divine Messiah talked about in psalm 110 since Jesus spoke about it.

Now when the rabbinical Jews complied the Masoretic text now the official hebrew bible in 900AD, they claimed the word is lord and not Lord.
Thus psalm 110.1 in Hebrew bible read 'YHWH said unto my master'.

The rabbinical Jews admitted the psalm is about the Messiah but now rejected a divine Messiah. Instead they insist the Messiah is just a normal human being and not a divine person.

This shows it's the Jews that have changed their understanding of psalm 110 possible influenced by Christian claim of Jesus fulfilling verses like psalm 110.

This explanation is not for argument but to give u and Christians historical context to psalm 110.

Your argument that it was Christians that changed the verse is invalid and not congruent with historical context .

I sabi adonai, adoni, Yahweh and Elohim!
The Psalm 110 wey dey all the NTs I dey see na Adoni dey there!

Probably the Bible translators translated nonsense for their audience!

How many Christians read your Septuagint Bible?

Na KJV most Christians died on!
And we now know KJV get serious errors!

SIRTee15:


So why did your Quran say if Allah has a son, the son should be worshipped.
Obviously what U wrote up there contradict surah 44.81
Why did Muhammed gave such blasphemous statement. Why did he say if Jesus is truly the son of God, he would be the first to worship Jesus.

What's the context of the verse?

Say (O Muhammad SAW): "If the Most Beneficent (Allah) had a son (or children as you pretend), then I am the first of Allah's worshippers [who deny and refute this claim of yours (and the first to believe in Allah Alone and testify that He has no children)]." [Tafsir At-Tabari].

So if anthropomorphism doesn't work in islam, then are U saying Allah truly has a visible shin?
Is that what U saying because a lot of your colleagues here denied the existence of a visible shin.

Whatever Allah says will happen on judgement day will be as He says!

That hasn't happen yet! So you can't base your argument on a future event!

And it's not even anthropomorphic at all. The attributes of Allah are always of the highest perfection as it befits His majesty!

If Allah has hands His hand are not like ours!

That's the interpretation of "there's none like unto Him"!

AbuTwins:


What's the context of the verse?

Say (O Muhammad SAW): "If the Most Beneficent (Allah) had a son (or children as you pretend), then I am the first of Allah's worshippers [who deny and refute this claim of yours (and the first to believe in Allah Alone and testify that He has no children)]." [Tafsir At-Tabari].



Whatever Allah says will happen on judgement day will be as He says!

That hasn't happen yet! So you can't base your argument on a future event!

And it's not even anthropomorphic at all. The attributes of Allah are always of the highest perfection as it befits His majesty!

If Allah has hands His hand are not like ours!

That's the interpretation of "there's none like unto Him"!

U have no shame at all. Too embarrassed to quote your own Qur'an.
Shame will not allow U quote surah 43.81.
Instead U had ran to tafsir to safe face.
My friend bring surah 43.81 here, let's learn something.

Meanwhile no be only U get tafsir on surah 43.81

Jalal - Al-Jalalayn
Say: ‘If the Compassionate One had a son, hypothetically [speaking], I would have been first among the worshippers, of that son; but it is established that He, exalted be He, does not have a child and thus there can be no worshipping of such [a child].


Is this not what U hiding. Muhammed saying he wants to worship Jesus.
Hehehe.....

The question is why would Muhammed contemplate worshipping Jesus at all under whatever circumstances?
Why?

SIRTee15:


U have no shame at all. Too embarrassed to quote your own Qur'an.
Shame will not allow U quote surah 43.81.
Instead U had ran to tafsir to safe face.
My friend bring surah 43.81 here, let's learn something.

Meanwhile no be only U get tafsir on surah 43.81

Jalal - Al-Jalalayn
Say: ‘If the Compassionate One had a son, hypothetically [speaking], I would have been first among the worshippers, of that son; but it is established that He, exalted be He, does not have a child and thus there can be no worshipping of such [a child].


Is this not what U hiding. Muhammed saying he wants to worship Jesus.
Hehehe.....

The question is why would Muhammed contemplate worshipping Jesus at all under whatever circumstances?
Why?

I didn't quote Tafsir. I quoted translated Qu'ran by Mohsin/Khan which is translated with Hadith and Tafsir!

You're ignorant.

What's the context, your hypocritical eyes skipped that? Or you don't know the meaning of context?

AbuTwins:


I didn't quote Tafsir. I quoted translated Qu'ran by Mohsin/Khan which is translated with Hadith and Tafsir!

You're ignorant.

What's the context, your hypocritical eyes skipped that? Or you don't know the meaning of context?

Mr Man go and bring surah 43.81 in the Qur'an here. I dont want hadith or tafsir. Bring it as Allah revealed it to Muhammed.
Let's check something.
I want to know why Muhammed wants to worship Jesus.

SIRTee15:


Mr Man go and bring surah 43.81 in the Qur'an here. I dont want hadith or tafsir. Bring it as Allah revealed it to Muhammed.
Let's check something.
I want to know why Muhammed wants to worship Jesus.

Tell us the context?

Context na Tafsir?

AbuTwins:


Tell us the context?

Context na Tafsir?

Bring the verse first, then we discuss the context

SIRTee15:


Bring the verse first, then we discuss the context

That's the verse I gave you from the Qur'an I use!

See attached!

And that's the context!

AbuTwins:


That's the verse I gave you from the Qur'an I use!

See attached!

And that's the context!

My friend bring it as written in the Arabic Koran, exactly as revealed by Muhammed.

Not all these 419 dubious translators who are ashamed of the Qur'an just like yourself.

AbuTwins:


1. They Jews and Christians worship their Rabbis and Monks as lords apart from Allah! They create rules for them and they follow sheepishly!
2. This verse critically criticizes the Christians who Christians are associating to God!

You said the Qur'an puts Allah and Jesus at the same level.

I showed you where Jesus called himself slave of Allah!

The verse you brought had Rabbi, Monks and Jesus!

You are dishonest in your analysis. Let me paraphrase it for you;

Your book says that they worship the Rabbi and Monks instead of Allah and also Jesus.

But you made it sound like this;

They worship, Rabbi, Monks and Jesus instead of Allah.

But that is not what it says. This is simple English. Jesus was mentioned alongside with Allah as deities that should be worshiped.

In any case, your book has so many things that are untrue. It's a mix up of certain lights it got from the Bible mixed up with so many untrue statements that are designed such that it will be hard for Muslims to find salvation.

But thank God so many Muslims are using their brains to know that they have been deceived. Please, you too, use yours. Otherwise, you will end up in hell. The torment is unbearable and it will be for the rest of your life.

SIRTee15:


My friend bring it as written in the Arabic Koran, exactly as revealed by Muhammed.

Not all these 419 dubious translators who are ashamed of the Qur'an just like yourself.

I have brought it according to the Qur'an I use on my phone and according to the understanding of those who transmitted the Qur'an. If it doesn't satisfy you then go and crucify yourself.

Ken4Christ:


You are dishonest in your analysis. Let me paraphrase it for you;

Your book says that they worship the Rabbi and Monks instead of Allah and also Jesus.

But you made it sound like this;

They worship, Rabbi, Monks and Jesus instead of Allah.

But that's the correct meaning! The Holy spirit can't interpret the Qur'an your way! It's a compound sentence which can be analysed as

1. They worshipped the Rabbi and monks instead of Allah

2. And they also worshipped Jesus....

But that is not what it says. This is simple English. Jesus was mentioned alongside with Allah as deities that should be worshiped.

In any case, your book has so many things that are untrue. It's a mix up of certain lights it got from the Bible mixed up with so many untrue statements that are designed such that it will be hard for Muslims to find salvation.

But thank God so many Muslims are using their brains to know that they have been deceived. Please, you too, use yours. Otherwise, you will end up in hell. The torment is unbearable and it will be for the rest of your life.

The verse is attached again from my phone Qur'an. I know you'll rather die in ignorance than accept the truth!

Even the verses before and after that verse shows you are a liar. But Christians don't check contexts.

They just quote John 3:16 and I and the father are one without context!

AbuTwins:


I have brought it according to the Qur'an I use on my phone and according to the understanding of those who transmitted the Qur'an. If it doesn't satisfy you then go and crucify yourself.

U people will accuse Christians of forging the scriptures by adding their own meaning but U Muslims are also guilty.

What U guys did with surah 43.81 is exactly as the johanine comma in 1 John.
U guys have intentionally altered the meaning of surah 43.81 to hide the embarrassment in that verse.

Anyway this is the verse U refuse to bring here despite persistent request for more than a week

Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “If the Most Compassionate really had offspring, I (Muhammed) would be the first worshipper.”

Other translation and Arabic below.

Now based on this verse and not your dubious translation...

If Jesus is truly the son of God, should he be worshipped.

SIRTee15:


U people will accuse Christians of forging the scriptures by adding their own meaning but U Muslims are also guilty.

What U guys did with surah 43.81 is exactly as the johanine comma in 1 John.
U guys have intentionally altered the meaning of surah 43.81 to hide the embarrassment in that verse.

Anyway this is the verse U refuse to bring here despite persistent request for more than a week

Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “If the Most Compassionate really had offspring, I (Muhammed) would be the first worshipper.”

Other translation and Arabic below.

Now based on this verse and not your dubious translation...

If Jesus is truly the son of God, should he be worshipped.

Okay show us the context of the verse then!

AbuTwins:


Okay show us the context of the verse then!

This is the context below.


Now will U answer my question, If Jesus is indeed the son of God, should he be worshipped?

SIRTee15:


This is the context below.


Now will U answer my question, If Jesus is indeed the son of God, should he be worshipped?

Your attachment is a Tafsir too!
You rejected mine because it was translated with a Tafsir!

Why are you an hypocrite like this?

You don't even know the meaning of context!

AbuTwins:


Your attachment is a Tafsir too!
You rejected mine because it was translated with a Tafsir!

Why are you an hypocrite like this?

You don't even know the meaning of context!

Then post as written in the Qur'an.simple. leave tafsir out.

If Allah had a son, I Muhammed would be the first to worship him.

That's what Muhammad revealed on the Koran.

SIRTee15:


Then post as written in the Qur'an.simple. leave tafsir out.

If Allah had a son, I Muhammed would be the first to worship him.

That's what Muhammad revealed on the Koran.

Give us the context of the verse!