ritchboy:

How did Wenger manage to misspend LITTLE, lose some of his best players, yet remain in the top four? The EPL must be shit then!

ritchboy:

And received how much from player sales? It's all relative!

If Wenger has really been misspending the "little" he's got, Arsenal woulda been relegated a long time ago!

debosky:

Yeah, and how is Ben Arfa better than Gervinho? What has Cheik Tiote done that Song has not done? What exactly has Cabaye done for Newcastle? What are his goals/assists stats compared with Arteta?

Is Friedel better than Sczezney or just benefiting from a settled defence playing in front of him game after game?

Of that lot the only ones that merit discussion are Demba Ba and maybe Parker. The others are shyte.
Any phool can assemble a list of players from 100 clubs and say Wenger could've bought them.

slimshay:

Huth and Shawcross. . . .bwahahaha. Nucca GTFOH!!

kenkruse:

Delusional statements here and there, what a defeat can cause.   We have got more Piers Morgan in this thread. Surprise to note that debo is in. Things cant go your way every time, only the strong can survive. More accusing fingers on Dudu. It's a shame, REALLY!

Everybody is singing 7 years without a trophy as if it is all that matters. I started supporting Arsenal within this years of trophyless seasons. Not that i dont like glory but i enjoy myself watching Arsenal play beautiful football. SURELY, trophy will come but we have to show solidality to this team and manager at this trying time. No team is destined to win a trophy. Players are not only motivated by money, but passion from fans.Ask Samir Nasri, he will tell you that he left because Arsenal fans lack passion. Win a game and everybody will be happy, at defeat, they call for Wengers head and criticise all the players. Again, it is a shame.

Well for me, I will continue supporting this team and manager until, trophy wining clubs start sharing money to their fan. RUBBISH!

ritchboy:

Hehehe, everyone that has played Football Manager or FPL now think they have valid opinions!

Nuccahs are asking why Wenger didn't sign Tom, Nick and Kim or sell Bert, Ernie and Barney. Ninjas obviously don't understand the dynamics of the transfer market to be making such daft statements. . . This ain't a movie dog!

OK, why didn't Fergie sign Cabaye last summer? After all many United fans will tell you they have the worst central midfield in the top six.

Why didn't Spurs sell Bentley, Giovanni etc and replace them with Ben Arfa or Siphiwe Tshabalala?

coogar:
that worst central midfield won the league and played in the final of the champions league.

ritchboy, do you reason with the corn on your toes?

spurs are doing just fine too.
they have the best central midfield in the league. parker + sandro + modric = quality.

there's a marked improvement of the spurs of this season and that of last season. they keep improving every season unlike arsenal who keep regressing.

However, while the knives are clearly out in force, the Frenchman maintains that Arsenal can rescue their season by securing Champions League football for next term, but recognises that he needs to revitalise several highly paid yet under performing members of his team first.

They include struggling forwards Marouane Chamakh and Park Chu-Young, who featured as a strike duo in the Carling Cup earlier in the season, but are now pencilled in to start against Norwich City reserves on Tuesday evening, with the mandate that they must improve if they want to be considered for Sunday's North London derby with Tottenham.

Wenger is also set to throw Andrey Arshavin into the second string squad, should he pass a fitness test, again with the notion that he must show dramatic improvements in the coming months if he is to stay at the club, while Yossi Benayoun and Kieran Gibbs have also asked if they can play, to put themselves in contention.

The decision is seen as Wenger's last throw of the dice in a bid to transform Chamakh, Park and Arshavin, with the hope that they will see the climb down as a challenge, ahead of a vital run of games for the club.

Elsewhere, Arsenal are expected to give a run out to Carl Jenkinson against Norwich, as he completes his come back from a stress fracture to his back

ritchboy:

See scatter-brained analysis at it's finest. . .
First of all, the central midfield alone didn't win the league and reach UCL final, every team has it's weakest link. In fact most people agree United lost the UCL final cos their central midfield was gangbanged by Barca.

Secondly, i don't understand what last season's achievements have to do with United strengthening their squad for THIS season. In case you missed the memo, United were already out of three competitions by January after being knocked out of the FA Cup by Liverpool, losing to lowly Crystal Palace in the League Cup, and failing to qualify from a relatively weak UCL group and are currently playing Thursday night football.

Facts easily forgettable considering Arsenal/Chelsea are hogging the crisis headlines. You cannot possibly tell me Cabaye isn't an improvement over Anderson/Giggs etc.

More of the same. . . OK, they're "doing fine", couldn't they have done "finer" with a better squad?
I named Giovanni and Bentley, are Parker, Modric and Sandro wingers?

Selective amnesia. I doubt there's any team that improves/regresses "every" season unless you're only seeing what you want to see. Spurs finished fourth two seasons ago and fifth last season, that's improvement according to Coogar. Save your premature ejaculations for the end of the season when we'll actually know where they ended up.

debosky:

Personally Arsene made only one bad buy in the summer and that’s Park. Santos was a decent signing, so were Per, Arteta and Gervinho. Benayoun didn’t cost anything in transfer fees so shouldn’t be added to the list. Oxlade Chamberlain has also been a good signing for Arsenal. For the prices paid for Joel Campbell and Jenkinson, I consider them reasonable gambles for the future.

Utd made £50m worth of signings as well, without losing the calibre of players that Arsenal lost (in terms of importance to the team).

Considering that Utd won the title and reached the UCL finals last year and STILL went ahead to spend that amount, it shows you that in reality, the £53m spent by Wenger is a paltry sum considering the yawning gaps in the squad even prior to the loss of Cesc, Nasri, Clichy and Wilshere, not mentioning Comrade Eboue the fufu king.

coogar:

united spent that amount because 8 players in the senior squad were moved out.
oshea, brown, neville, scholes, van der sar, gibson, obertan and diouf!

debosky:

Arsenal moved out Eboue, Clichy, Nasri, Cesc, Bendtner, Denilson, Campbell and Vela.

This doesn't exclude the prolonged absences of Diaby, Wilshere amongst others due to injury.

ritchboy:

Mr Coogar, you must be mad if you think i have time to address all the rubbish you typed up there!

debosky:

Personally Arsene made only one bad buy in the summer and that’s Park. Santos was a decent signing, so were Per, Arteta and Gervinho. Benayoun didn’t cost anything in transfer fees so shouldn’t be added to the list. Oxlade Chamberlain has also been a good signing for Arsenal. For the prices paid for Joel Campbell and Jenkinson, I consider them reasonable gambles for the future.

Utd made £50m worth of signings as well, without losing the calibre of players that Arsenal lost (in terms of importance to the team).

Considering that Utd won the title and reached the UCL finals last year and STILL went ahead to spend that amount, it shows you that in reality, the £53m spent by Wenger is a paltry sum considering the yawning gaps in the squad even prior to the loss of Cesc, Nasri, Clichy and Wilshere, not mentioning Comrade Eboue the fufu king.

The Arsenal Supporters’ Trust are demanding to know why Wenger did not dip into a £50m transfer kitty as they are facing a seventh season without a trophy.
The 3,000 strong AST group held a “passionate and concerned” meeting tonight and will put forward their findings to the club in another meeting at the Emirates on Wednesday.
Arsenal’s majority shareholder Stan Kroenke is also due to fly in this week for a board meeting on Thursday while under-pressure Wenger faces a crunch game against bitter rivals Spurs on Sunday.


Tim Payton, of the Arsenal Supporters’ Trust, said: “It was lively, passionate and concerned. Arsenal fans are not happy and they showed a lot of spirit.
“We will ask at the end of the season if Arsene Wenger is the right man for the job but during the season we will always back the manager and support the team. That is our philosophy and that will never change.

“But questions need to be asked. We had a summer profit of £50m on player trading, lots of money in the bank and figure out whether there was money to invest and where we might be going.
“Last year, there was a collapse on the four trophies then straight after there was a 6.5 per cent rise on top of the most expensive tickets in world football.

“A worry for next year for the fans is that next year they will be paying for Thursday night football rather than the Champions League they’ve been used to.
“We spend so much on wages. This year we’re going to spend 40 per cent more than Spurs, it’s £130m wage bill. Are we overpaying a lot of players that we then can’t move on. “Our business model has fallen behind. Our sponsorship is not up for renewal until 2014. We can’t compete for the very best players.”

The AST also believe ticket prices should be frozen as Arsenal face a battle to get into the Champions League next season.

“We’re going to feed into the club later in the week on ticket prices - Arsenal supporters not very happy when they went up 6.5 per cent - and we’re going to look at the club’s financial position,” said Payton.
“I think they will probably keep prices flat depending on what competition we are playing in next year, hopefully it will be the Champions League.”

But Payton also says Wenger deserves respect - but the fans also want to be sure the club is moving forward.
Payton added: “What we have to do is try to have the debate in a civilised way and respect everything he’s done for the club in the past.
“He’s been our greatest ever manager, made a terrific contribution to the club but clearly things are not going well.

“It’s the whole football set-up. Who on the board does the David Dein role? Who keeps Arsene Wenger fresh? Is he fresh and making the right decisions.
“It’s a very legitimate question that the Arsenal Supporters’ Trust asking: is Arsenal’s football set-up and Arsene Wenger still right for taking the club forward?
“It could be that going somewhere else would re-energise him [Wenger]. It could be that time for a change works both ways. He was a fantastic manager and is a fantastic manager.

“Arsene Wenger, Pat Rice, Boro Primorac have all been there since 1996 and surely that needs some freshening up.”

debosky:

First question - did they both leave at the same time? No.

Second question - how reliant was Utd on the aforementioned players? Not as reliant as Arsenal were on Cesc and Nasri in one season. Utd could confidently win games if either was absent.

Did Utd’s starting line up have only 2 world class players and lose one of them? No.

Third question - did Utd have ample preparation for their departure? Yes - Nani, Valencia for Ronaldo for example. Berbatov cost £30m and was bought before Tevez left. Tevez’ goal haul has more than been replaced by Berbatov, not to mention Hernandez.

That Utd won titles is not in dispute - the fact is that Utd had a better squad to start with and always replaced their stars, even if not directly thereby keeping their overall squad quality level high.

Valencia did not replace Ronaldo’s output solely - Nani was already at the club understudying Ronaldo and obviously stepped up when he left. He wasn’t cheap either at £17m. Utd’s formation during Ronaldo’s time was optimised to get the best out of him. Once he left, the squad became more balanced and optimised to get excellent output from Rooney.

debosky:

First question - did they both leave at the same time? No.

Second question - how reliant was Utd on the aforementioned players? Not as reliant as Arsenal were on Cesc and Nasri in one season. Utd could confidently win games if either was absent.

Did Utd’s starting line up have only 2 world class players and lose one of them? No.

Third question - did Utd have ample preparation for their departure? Yes - Nani, Valencia for Ronaldo for example. Berbatov cost £30m and was bought before Tevez left. Tevez’ goal haul has more than been replaced by Berbatov, not to mention Hernandez.

That Utd won titles is not in dispute - the fact is that Utd had a better squad to start with and always replaced their stars, even if not directly thereby keeping their overall squad quality level high.

Valencia did not replace Ronaldo’s output solely - Nani was already at the club understudying Ronaldo and obviously stepped up when he left. He wasn’t cheap either at £17m. Utd’s formation during Ronaldo’s time was optimised to get the best out of him. Once he left, the squad became more balanced and optimised to get excellent output from Rooney.

dayokanu:

You now know the answer.


2/3rds of the holy trinity left . Ronaldo was the major player in Man Utd . The team sold 2 of 3 world class players and still won the league

What was the ample preparation Man Utd had to replace the world Best Player.

Valencia a player from Wigan was bought to replace the world best player, That is a miracle on the proportions of using Aluwe to replace Denzel Washington yet Ferguson was able to pull it off

What was Nanis output before Ronaldo left, Why didnt Walcott who was already at the club and understudying replace Nasri or why didnt Ramsey who was already at the club and understidying replace Fabregas. Walcott wasnt cheap neither was Ramsey cheap

debosky:

One of the replacements cost £30m. Please identify one replacement at Arsenal for £30m. Granted they still won the league, but even Utd suffered a drop in performance with Ronaldo's exit.

Keeping him a season longer while Nani was his understudy AND buying Valencia. In essence, two players attempted to replace his output, in addition to Rooney stepping up from helping Ronaldo to shining for himself.

That he was a Wigan player does not mean he wasn't a good player.

Ramsey was out with a leg break for a year so it hardly counts. Walcott was a regular alongside Nasri in the same team so you can can't replace Nasri with Walcott.

In any case, Nasri and Cesc while present only got Arsenal to 4th and the same level in the CL. It is not surprising that the new side is struggling to maintain that level.

debosky:

One of the replacements cost £30m. Please identify one replacement at Arsenal for £30m. Granted they still won the league, but even Utd suffered a drop in performance with Ronaldo's exit.

Keeping him a season longer while Nani was his understudy AND buying Valencia. In essence, two players attempted to replace his output, in addition to Rooney stepping up from helping Ronaldo to shining for himself.

That he was a Wigan player does not mean he wasn't a good player.
Ramsey was out with a leg break for a year so it hardly counts. Walcott was a regular alongside Nasri in the same team so you can can't replace Nasri with Walcott.

In any case, Nasri and Cesc while present only got Arsenal to 4th and the same level in the CL. It is not surprising that the new side is struggling to maintain that level.

dayokanu:

A drop in performance but still won the league and got to the CL finals same thing they achieved in Ronaldos last season. So without the drop in form what would they have achieved.

Was berbatov not in the team with Ronaldo the same way 15m Arshavin was in the same team with Fabregas, The same way multi million Walcott/Ramsey was in the same team with Nasri

Didnt Wenger also keep Cesc a season longer? wasnt ramsey his understudy? Didnt Wenger also buy Arteta 2 players to replace Cescs output? In addition to keeping Van persie, buying Gervinho, Keeping  Arshavin

So why havent Wenger done any good with Arteta he bought from Everton, Gervinho from Lille, PM from Bremen, Benayoun from Chelsea etc?

So why has Arsenal gone 7 seasons without a trophy?

debosky:

They lost ONE player and had a stronger squad than Arsenal even with the loss of Ronaldo. That is the problem - the inherent weakness of the squad Arsenal has had since the invincibles were disbanded.

Berbatov had 3 seasons of 20+ hoals in the EPL - which of those Arsenal players had the same pedigree. In case your math is weak, 30.75m is over two times 15m for Arshavin.

How could Ramsey understudy Cesc with a broken leg? Even if he kept the players you mentioned, the squad with Cesc was still weak.

He has done as well as last season at this stage, minus the CC final. That is all that has been achieved - some level of replacement but no improvement.

Because of an inherently weaker squad than its main rivals caused by chronic underinvestment after the invincibles left. To be clear, Arsenal could have won a minor trophy if the club's focus had been to do that, but Arsenal has focused primarily on winning the big prizes and have come up short.