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Re: The NBA Begins by Nobody: 8:21am On Nov 13, 2019
Let's say siakam somehow managed to catch up with AD on the offensive end. Forget about the differences in how gifted they are physically, say he gets his ball handling, post skills, mid range, IQ. Heck let's just say siakam manages to average over 26 for a season consistently.

When and how does he catch up with AD who is a perennial DPOY candidate on the defensive end?
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 10:50am On Nov 13, 2019
steady986:

Me what I don't want to hear is that Giannis is better than AD.
That one is your personal problem because no one said that
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 10:57am On Nov 13, 2019
steady986:

You're funny o. AD underperformed at NO but still managed to make all NBA first team 3 times. You've forgotten that basketball is a team sport. How many players in the NBA have made all NBA first team while leading their team to under 40 wins? Very few.
You can win MVP and still underperform at critical junctures. Basketball considers your all-round team success as well as your individual contributions. You will observe that two of the years he made All-NBA first team were the years he led his team to over 40 wins. To achieve that feat just 2 times in 7 years is underperformance
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 11:04am On Nov 13, 2019
steady986:

Who even told you that was LeBron's physical prime? Smh
When was LeNomad's physical prime? Just because you choke away a series does not mean you're not in your physical prime. He was almost 27 years

Against the Bulls and the Celtics that same postseason he averaged 26 and 28ppg respectively. 27pts for regular season.

He simply choked in the Finals!! Don't tell me any megedefegede about a two time MVP approaching 27 not in his prime

1 Like

Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 11:06am On Nov 13, 2019
steady986:

Looooooollllllll
Players better than AD have been clamped so let's hear word
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 11:25am On Nov 13, 2019
KarnBarlow:

Doesn't make your claims any less outrageous.
Of course it was always outrageous to suggest James Harden would be perennial MVP candidate when he was leaving OKC but here we are

KarnBarlow:

Okay, just one year where AD was healthy and you felt he had enough for the playoffs in the west but didn't make it. One year.
He had enough to at least win more than 40 games twice. That's the bare minimum

KarnBarlow:

This is what i typed. Dont know where you got all that from.

He won 48 in the west in 75 games after losing his deuteragonist averaging 28 and if I'm not mistaken was 3rd in MVP voting and DPOY voting. Don't know what more you want from him.
For all the praise and his special talents he's only finished top 5 in MVP voting twice. And those were the years he was able to lead the team past 40 something wins
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 11:29am On Nov 13, 2019
SmooshCHN:


https://www.instagram.com/tv/B4y6PpphJNk/?igshid=pue19ghzd975

For those who doubt. This kid is special and this is just his second year.

Saying Trae can be better than Curry or Giannis/Siakam than Anthony Davis doesn't imply that they are currently better. I didn't read where anyone said Siakam is currently a better player than AD. It's normal to believe they can be better if they keep getting better with how well they are playing now and such takes shouldn't be an off topic either. It's sports. We've seen 1st round picks turn busts and second round picks become household names.
That's what makes Sports fun. You can project and look like a visionary and also like a complete idiot over time. We are merely going off what we have seen many times before

When Steph started I'm sure people were up in arms when some said he could be better than Ray Allen but here we are.

I don't know why people are being so sensitive. On the flip side it's good to see how we MJ fans feel when Bronsexuals compare him to the GOAT grin grin
Re: The NBA Begins by steady986(m): 12:45pm On Nov 13, 2019
A40:
When was LeNomad's physical prime? Just because you choke away a series does not mean you're not in your physical prime. He was almost 27 years

Against the Bulls and the Celtics that same postseason he averaged 26 and 28ppg respectively. 27pts for regular season.

He simply choked in the Finals!! Don't tell me any megedefegede about a two time MVP approaching 27 not in his prime
You said "physical prime" o, not basketball prime
Re: The NBA Begins by steady986(m): 12:47pm On Nov 13, 2019
A40:
You can win MVP and still underperform at critical junctures. Basketball considers your all-round team success as well as your individual contributions. You will observe that two of the years he made All-NBA first team were the years he led his team to over 40 wins. To achieve that feat just 2 times in 7 years is underperformance
Anything to make you happy bro
Re: The NBA Begins by SmooshCHN: 1:20pm On Nov 13, 2019
steady986:

You said "physical prime" o, not basketball prime
Jesus!!! Is this really a thing?
Donlittle25 come and hear something.
Bruh!!! I'm done with this forum. cheesy cheesy
Re: The NBA Begins by donlittle25: 1:48pm On Nov 13, 2019
SmooshCHN:
Jesus!!! Is this really a thing?
Donlittle25 come and hear something.
Bruh!!! I'm done with this forum. cheesy cheesy
Wo, me I am just reading and laughing. O ti su mi. Physical prime, basketball prime grin
Re: The NBA Begins by Nobody: 2:21pm On Nov 13, 2019
A40:
When was LeNomad's physical prime? Just because you choke away a series does not mean you're not in your physical prime. He was almost 27 years

Against the Bulls and the Celtics that same postseason he averaged 26 and 28ppg respectively. 27pts for regular season.

He simply choked in the Finals!! Don't tell me any megedefegede about a two time MVP approaching 27 not in his prime

Just keep the same consistency. Giannis choked against the raptors.
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 2:23pm On Nov 13, 2019
steady986:

You said "physical prime" o, not basketball prime
Plus physical plus basketball. They are intertwined. LeNomad was in his 8th year in the league with two MVPs and a Finals appearance previously so you cannot say he was not in his prime whether physical or basketball. Stop this your unnecessary argument it's tedious
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 2:27pm On Nov 13, 2019
KarnBarlow:


Just keep the same consistency. Giannis choked against the raptors.
There is a difference between trying and failing due to the other team's efforts to stop you and there is choking because you didn't even try.

LeNomad averaged almost 10pts below his regular season numbers and his numbers in the previous round. That is choking
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 2:28pm On Nov 13, 2019
donlittle25:
Wo, me I am just reading and laughing. O ti su mi. Physical prime, basketball prime grin
Optimus prime
Re: The NBA Begins by Nobody: 2:29pm On Nov 13, 2019
A40:

Of course it was always outrageous to suggest James Harden would be perennial MVP candidate when he was leaving OKC but here we are
James harden was a no. 3 pick, SOTY winner and was 23 years old. Theres nothing outrageous about saying with more time and consistency he could become an MVP caliber player. Maybe far fetched. but not outrageous.


He had enough to at least win more than 40 games twice. That's the bare minimum
Just one season where he was healthy and you felt he should've won over 40 but didnt. Just one.

For all the praise and his special talents he's only finished top 5 in MVP voting twice. And those were the years he was able to lead the team past 40 something wins
Your hegoat led his team to 40 wins averaging 37 points. He obviously under performed.
Re: The NBA Begins by Nobody: 2:31pm On Nov 13, 2019
A40:
There is a difference between trying and failing due to the other team's efforts to stop you and there is choking because you didn't even try.

LeNomad averaged almost 10pts below his regular season numbers and his numbers in the previous round. That is choking

LOL So the Mavericks didnt try anything to stop lebron. He just decided to stand there and do nothing, even if dallas didnt do anything he would've just stood there and choked. Wasnt giannis averages below his regular season and playoff averages until then? But with Giannis its team planning and with lebron he choked.


Yeah right.
Re: The NBA Begins by steady986(m): 2:59pm On Nov 13, 2019
A40:
Plus physical plus basketball. They are intertwined. LeNomad was in his 8th year in the league with two MVPs and a Finals appearance previously so you cannot say he was not in his prime whether physical or basketball. Stop this your unnecessary argument it's tedious
Is it your prime?
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 3:00pm On Nov 13, 2019
KarnBarlow:


You should bring up the numbers for his post up play as well, and thats the major thing he worked on with Hakeem. What served him best the next playoff run. Numbers lie all the time. The improvement in his jump shooting and post up play was blatant. In fact that was the first thing most people noticed.
The improvement was minimal. LeNomad has never been an elite shooter outside 3ft and the stats I posted encompass both post and perimeter play.

Don't overhype this thing.

3ft to 10ft shooting

2010/2011 - 45%
2011/2012 - 46%
2012/2013 - 45%

3pt shooting in the playoffs
2010/2011 - 35%
2011/2012 - 25%
2012/2013 - 37%

Where was this new improved post up play when he was being outplayed by goddamn Danny Green Games 1-3 of the 2013 Finals?

KarnBarlow:

I'm not concluding if a player is known to be something and hasnt done anything to change that notion how is your conclusion premature? Until he does, theres nothing to suggest improvement.
We're only 9 games in. Why not wait till 20 at least, plus he's still averaging almost 30 a game so it's not like he is being stopped

Last year was Giannis's first significant playoff run. He is taking his lumps

KarnBarlow:

One is a bad matchup the other is a choke job? Naah, truth is a player without shooting will always get exposed in the playoffs especially in recent times. We've seen this far too often, when was the last time a player without respectable shooting led a team to a championship? The last time in recent memory was probably shaq and shaq was a freak of nature. Plus the game has changed significantly since then.
Yes it was a chokejob. LeNomad will not be the first sporting great to choke. I don't know why you lot are being sensitive about this.

How can a player drop 10 whole points from his average in a series and you're telling me it was not a chokejob. Are you hearing yourself at all?

Giannis lack of shooting was a problem but not the only problem. He was not Ben Simmons level bad. And unless you expect him to be Steph Curry then I don't know how much improvement you expect him to make
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 3:05pm On Nov 13, 2019
KarnBarlow:


LOL So the Mavericks didnt try anything to stop lebron. He just decided to stand there and do nothing, even if dallas didnt do anything he would've just stood there and choked. Wasnt giannis averages below his regular season and playoff averages until then? But with Giannis its team planning and with lebron he choked.


Yeah right.
But they faced him the very next season. On opening night! Why didn't they stop him??

Nobody said the Mavs didn't try to stop him, don't be ridiculous. We are saying he also inhibited himself with his play and his mentality. Nobody has accused Giannis of choking but the world is unanimous about LeNomad's chokejob

Giannis dropped from 27pts to 22pts

LeNomad dropped from 26.7pts to 17.8pts

You mean the Mavericks defense was so good a two time MVP surrounded with two all-stars and a deep bench held Bron to 10pts below his average all by themselves?
Re: The NBA Begins by steady986(m): 3:06pm On Nov 13, 2019
KarnBarlow:

James harden was a no. 3 pick, SOTY winner and was 23 years old. Theres nothing outrageous about saying with more time and consistency he could become an MVP caliber player. Maybe far fetched. but not outrageous.



Just one season where he was healthy and you felt he should've won over 40 but didnt. Just one.


Your hegoat led his team to 40 wins averaging 37 points. He obviously under performed.
That's one thing with these people, they never consider injuries at all. Even when LeBron was injured last year they still found a way to slander him. But now that Curry is injured they're cutting him and GS some slack.
Re: The NBA Begins by Nobody: 3:15pm On Nov 13, 2019
A40:

The improvement was minimal. LeNomad has never been an elite shooter outside 3ft and the stats I posted encompass both post and perimeter play.

Don't overhype this thing.

3ft to 10ft shooting

2010/2011 - 45%
2011/2012 - 46%
2012/2013 - 45%

3pt shooting in the playoffs
2010/2011 - 35%
2011/2012 - 25%
2012/2013 - 37%

Where was this new improved post up play when he was being outplayed by goddamn Danny Green Games 1-3 of the 2013 Finals?
Now Danny Green was outplaying LeBron. Man, I dont even know what to do with you. I can't keep arguing with someone who can't be objective just for the sake of it. There no point. Oh and way did use a 3 game sample to fit your narrative in a 7 game series.


We're only 9 games in. Why not wait till 20 at least, plus he's still averaging almost 30 a game so it's not like he is being stopped

Last year was Giannis's first significant playoff run. He is taking his lumps
You are making my point, its ridiculous to assume someone has improved until he shows you that he has. Until he does, he will be judged based on the previous assessment of him. Lebron is a bad FT shooter, but your man is airballing FTs man.

Yes it was a chokejob. LeNomad will not be the first sporting great to choke. I don't know why you lot are being sensitive about this.

How can a player drop 10 whole points from his average in a series and you're telling me it was not a chokejob. Are you hearing yourself at all?

Giannis lack of shooting was a problem but not the only problem. He was not Ben Simmons level bad. And unless you expect him to be Steph Curry then I don't know how much improvement you expect him to make
Its not about sensitivity, its about your double standards. If a team executes the perfect plan and takes away a players main strengths why wont he average fewer points than hes accustomed to? Is this the first time we've seen a team plan to take a player out of a game and succeeded? You literally claimed thats what Toronto did with Giannis. Dallas priority was to take lebron out of the game and allow the others to do their thing, LeBron obliged cause he really didn't have a choice. But yeah take the lazy option, he choked.
Re: The NBA Begins by steady986(m): 3:18pm On Nov 13, 2019
A40:

The improvement was minimal. LeNomad has never been an elite shooter outside 3ft and the stats I posted encompass both post and perimeter play.

Don't overhype this thing.

3ft to 10ft shooting

2010/2011 - 45%
2011/2012 - 46%
2012/2013 - 45%

3pt shooting in the playoffs
2010/2011 - 35%
2011/2012 - 25%
2012/2013 - 37%

Where was this new improved post up play when he was being outplayed by goddamn Danny Green Games 1-3 of the 2013 Finals?


We're only 9 games in. Why not wait till 20 at least, plus he's still averaging almost 30 a game so it's not like he is being stopped

Last year was Giannis's first significant playoff run. He is taking his lumps


Yes it was a chokejob. LeNomad will not be the first sporting great to choke. I don't know why you lot are being sensitive about this.

How can a player drop 10 whole points from his average in a series and you're telling me it was not a chokejob. Are you hearing yourself at all?

What you're saying essentially is if Harden goes from 37ppg in the regular season to 27ppg in the playoffs, he choked.

A40:
Giannis lack of shooting was a problem but not the only problem. He was not Ben Simmons level bad. And unless you expect him to be Steph Curry then I don't know how much improvement you expect him to make
He can at least improve to AD's level of shooting. How about that?
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 3:18pm On Nov 13, 2019
KarnBarlow:

James harden was a no. 3 pick, SOTY winner and was 23 years old. Theres nothing outrageous about saying with more time and consistency he could become an MVP caliber player. Maybe far fetched. but not outrageous.
And yet OKC traded him for a bag of peanuts. Don't play Monday Morning Quarterback here. Nobody anticipated Harden or Giannis to get to this level when they started out.

The same #3 pick that gives you the GOAT, Grant Hill, Harden and Penny Hardaway can also give you Otto Porter, Jahlil Okafor and Derrick Favors. This thing is not an exact science

KarnBarlow:

Just one season where he was healthy and you felt he should've won over 40 but didnt. Just one.

Your hegoat led his team to 40 wins averaging 37 points. He obviously under performed.
Story for the gods. The second and third best players on the GOAT's squad averaged 25pts combined.

AD had 4-5 teammates in double figures every other season while AD never topped 28pts per game but go awfffffffffff
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 3:21pm On Nov 13, 2019
steady986:

What you're saying essentially is if Harden goes from 37ppg in the regular season to 27ppg in the playoffs, he choked.
I would think by now this would be a no-brainer. Don't you lot troll Steph Curry?

Your bff calls him a choker. Have you wondered why??

steady986:

He can at least improve to AD's level of shooting. How about that?
What did AD achieve with his own level of shooting? If it was that good he wouldn't run to LA to be LeNomad's apprentice
Re: The NBA Begins by steady986(m): 3:21pm On Nov 13, 2019
A40:
But they faced him the very next season. On opening night! Why didn't they stop him??

Nobody said the Mavs didn't try to stop him, don't be ridiculous. We are saying he also inhibited himself with his play and his mentality. Nobody has accused Giannis of choking but the world is unanimous about LeNomad's chokejob

Giannis dropped from 27pts to 22pts

LeNomad dropped from 26.7pts to 17.8pts

You mean the Mavericks defense was so good a two time MVP surrounded with two all-stars and a deep bench held Bron to 10pts below his average all by themselves?
It's actually 8.9 points, don't blow things out of proportion.
Re: The NBA Begins by Nobody: 3:24pm On Nov 13, 2019
A40:
But they faced him the very next season. On opening night! Why didn't they stop him??

Nobody said the Mavs didn't try to stop him, don't be ridiculous. We are saying he also inhibited himself with his play and his mentality. Nobody has accused Giannis of choking but the world is unanimous about LeNomad's chokejob

Giannis dropped from 27pts to 22pts

LeNomad dropped from 26.7pts to 17.8pts

You mean the Mavericks defense was so good a two time MVP surrounded with two all-stars and a deep bench held Bron to 10pts below his average all by themselves?
Yeah as if the world doesn't subscribe to false narratives all the time. Why not accuse Giannis of choking as well since its literally the same thing. A team took away a players strengths and he didnt perform up to standards. By your definition thats a choke job!

Inhibited himself with his mentality? He couldn't drive the way he wanted too, he couldn't score efficiently. It was either he turns into a jump shooter or he defers and hes never been afraid to do that so of course his scoring suffered. Like Cuban said, "We wanted to make him play MJ while someone else played Kerr". Why Wade averaged that many points. LeBron with a different mentality would have chucked up bad shots and still lost. He just wasn't a good enough player to counter what Dallas was doing, just like Giannis wasnt good enough to counter what the raptors did.
Re: The NBA Begins by Nobody: 3:34pm On Nov 13, 2019
A40:

And yet OKC traded him for a bag of peanuts. Don't play Monday Morning Quarterback here. Nobody anticipated Harden or Giannis to get to this level when they started out.

The same #3 pick that gives you the GOAT, Grant Hill, Harden and Penny Hardaway can also give you Otto Porter, Jahlil Okafor and Derrick Favors. This thing is not an exact science
Monday morning quarterback? LOL How?
Harden would have left for nothing if they didnt trade him and they still got Lamb and two picks for him. Daryl Morey certainly knew what he got when he gave him the keys to the franchise. I mean seriously who couldn't have seen harden at least showing some improvement away from westbrook and Durant and then you throw D'antoni in there?

You just made my point, Hill Penny etc were 3rd picks. Just disproving this notion that Harden came out of nowhere ala Siakam and became an MVP candidate.

Story for the gods. The second and third best players on the GOAT's squad averaged 25pts combined.

AD had 4-5 teammates in double figures every other season while AD never topped 28pts per game but go awfffffffffff

Oh so now the rest of the team matters? LMAO At least we are getting somewhere. The way you were blaming AD i would have sworn you meant a player has to carry a team on his own. So how about this, check the yearly projections, one season where the analysts projected the pelicans would make the playoffs but they failed to. Just one, its not that hard.
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 3:35pm On Nov 13, 2019
KarnBarlow:

Now Danny Green was outplaying LeBron. Man, I dont even know what to do with you. I can't keep arguing with someone who can't be objective just for the sake of it. There no point. Oh and way did use a 3 game sample to fit your narrative in a 7 game series.
I presented the timeline to which Danny Green was outplaying LeNomad. The least you can do is counter it and stop being dramatic. Didn't Danny Green play better than LeNomad between Games 1-3?

KarnBarlow:

You are making my point, its ridiculous to assume someone has improved until he shows you that he has. Until he does, he will be judged based on the previous assessment of him. Lebron is a bad FT shooter, but your man is airballing FTs man.
Guys the size of Giannis shooting FTs at a high clip are an exception not a norm. Everybody will not be a KD or Dirk

KarnBarlow:

Its not about sensitivity, its about your double standards. If a team executes the perfect plan and takes away a players main strengths why wont he average fewer points than hes accustomed to? Is this the first time we've seen a team plan to take a player out of a game and succeeded? You literally claimed thats what Toronto did with Giannis. Dallas priority was to take lebron out of the game and allow the others to do their thing, LeBron obliged cause he really didn't have a choice. But yeah take the lazy option, he choked.
You have the gall to lecture me on double standards? What a time to be alive!

I didn't see you display this energy when the Raptors were box and oneing Steph and guarding him from half court. You called him a notorious choker and bombed the thread ad nauseum. Suddenly you have remembered context and nuances

There is a difference between a slight drop off in production and flopping so badly you became the 3rd best scorer on your team.

Dallas attempted and did their part to take out LeNomad but LeNomad largely choked and did not play to the best of his abilities. Both are true
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 3:36pm On Nov 13, 2019
steady986:

It's actually 8.9 points, don't blow things out of proportion.
The outstanding is less than a basket. Roughly approximated it to 10points. Don't play Captain Pedantic
Re: The NBA Begins by Nobody: 3:49pm On Nov 13, 2019
A40:

I presented the timeline to which Danny Green was outplaying LeNomad. The least you can do is counter it and stop being dramatic. Didn't Danny Green play better than LeNomad between Games 1-3?
Game 1
LeBron 18 16 10
Green 12 1 1

Game 2
LeBron 17 8 7 3 3
Green 17 1 1

Game 3
LeBron 15 11 5 2
Green 27 4 2 2

Outplaying LeBron? I dont even know why i'm entertaining this.

Guys the size of Giannis shooting FTs at a high clip are an exception not a norm. Everybody will not be a KD or Dirk
That doesnt change the fact the he still can't shoot and thats the focus of the issue here.

You have the gall to lecture me on double standards? What a time to be alive!

I didn't see you display this energy when the Raptors were box and oneing Steph and guarding him from half court. You called him a notorious choker and bombed the thread ad nauseum. Suddenly you have remembered context and nuances
You mean the Steph Curry who is currently faking an injury to avoid the as- whooping the league wants to hand to him? cheesy

LOL On a serious note, whats good for the goose. I think i was the first person to say now steph knows how lebron feels to show up with an inferior team and get blamed for losing.

There is a difference between a slight drop off in production and flopping so badly you became the 3rd best scorer on your team.

Dallas attempted and did their part to take out LeNomad but LeNomad largely choked and did not play to the best of his abilities. Both are true
Dallas' game plan was to make bron defer and he did and his numbers suffered because of that. His game wasn't good enough to not defer at that point. Dallas attempted you say, but they didnt do just that, they succeeded.
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 3:53pm On Nov 13, 2019
KarnBarlow:

Monday morning quarterback? LOL How?
Harden would have left for nothing if they didnt trade him and they still got Lamb and two picks for him. Daryl Morey certainly knew what he got when he gave him the keys to the franchise. I mean seriously who couldn't have seen harden at least showing some improvement away from westbrook and Durant and then you throw D'antoni in there?
Of course. This is easy to type in the year of our Lord 2019. Just show us one person that predicted James Harden to be a top 5-10 player in the league within 3 years of joining the league before D'Antoni came on board. Playing Monday Morning Quarterback is very easy

KarnBarlow:

You just made my point, Hill Penny etc were 3rd picks. Just disproving this notion that Harden came out of nowhere ala Siakam and became an MVP candidate.
I'm not making your point. Kawhi, Giannis, Steph, Steve Nash came from nowhere and became MVP candidates. Nobody predicted Harden to be an MVP candidate. He was largely blamed for OKC's collapse vs the Heat and was deemed the weak link for that OKC team and expendable

KarnBarlow:

Oh so now the rest of the team matters? LMAO At least we are getting somewhere. The way you were blaming AD i would have sworn you meant a player has to carry a team on his own. So how about this, check the yearly projections, one season where the analysts projected the pelicans would make the playoffs but they failed to. Just one, its not that hard.
Stop trying to be dubious. I'm rubbishing the notion that AD was bereft of help. You would be better served highlighting his injury prone nature (which I recall telling you and you were arguing and doing strong head) but to suggest he played with the kind of bums MJ played with is laughable..

The year MJ averaged 37pts the second best player on his team averaged 14pts per game. Come and show me 1 season AD averaged more than 28pts per game and did not have a teammate averaging 15 or more

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