<sup>They can keep chanting GOD is great while seeing that GOD is not great at all . . .  If truly he's great i believe he won't allow the so many evils to be happening  .

The GOD must be blamed for everything bad that has been happening to the World in time past and present -- Christians i believe they'll end up with their ignorant very soon -unless u turn from your evil GOD and follow SATAN the true creator of the World .</sup>

brentkruge:

its interesting, your conclusion. its surely not Christians that slaughtered 20 innocent people in Mubi, Adamawa yesterday. It wasn't Christians that mowed down 8 people in a Church in Gombe the day before yesterday. It wasnt Christians that have blasted another 8 people in Yola Adamawa a few hours ago. I have never heard Christians invading a Mosque and mowing down people to death.

Whats more, the assailants were chanting GOD IS GREAT! What kind of GREAT god is do weak that mortals will fight to kill for him and in his name.

Who, if you are capable of ANY sound moral judgement, is the evil one then.

I

Ogaga4Luv:

[size=13pt]<sup>They can keep chanting GOD is great while seeing that GOD is not great at all . . .  If truly he's great i believe he won't allow the so many evils to be happening  .

The GOD must be blamed for everything bad that has been happening to the World in time past and present -- Christians i believe they'll end up with their ignorant very soon -unless u turn from your evil GOD and follow SATAN the true creator of the World .</sup>
[/size]

tomzman:

Clap for yourself .You only dealt with an aspect of the challenge and left the other.But don't worry, I'm browsing with my phone now,when I'm on the laptop I'll take care of the other aspect.By the way,have you tried reading those verses in your post (and indeed the quran) without the brackets i.e ignore the brackets and read.What do you discover?.

brentkruge:

Among the Koranic writers were some nominal Christians who gave the Koran its sense of wrapped history

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 814: Narrated Anas: There was a Christian who embraced Islam and read Surat-al-Baqara and Al-Imran, and he used to write (the revelations) for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again and he used to say:[b] "Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him." He obviously couldnt reconcile and stomach what he was hearing. Later Muslim invented the story that the earth rejected his body after death. The only person the earth "dealt" with so ie God himself handled it. The rest of course Mohammed had killed!

Allah has already made this situation clear in the quran. This christian was a liar who lied on muhammed(saw) as this christian was not an arab and did not understand arabic so how could someone that does not understand arabic claim to have written the quran in arabic for the prophet(saw). The quran states:-

And indeed We know that they (polytheists and pagans) say: "It is only a human being who teaches him (Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم)." The tongue of the man they refer to is foreign, while this (the Qur'an) is a clear Arabic tongue.
(  سورة النحل  , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #103)

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 605: Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet returned to Khadija while his heart was beating rapidly. She took him to Waraqa bin Naufal who was a Christian convert and used to read the Gospels in Arabic. Waraqa asked, "What do you see?" When he told him, Waraqa said, "That is the same angel whom Allah sent to the Prophet Moses. Should I live till you receive the Divine Message, I will support you strongly."[/b]

Yet Mohammed later commanded his followers to kill the very people he  relied on to authenticate his messages, the people he claimed corrupted the gospel. If poor Waraqa had known better, he would have instantly recognized the warning in the gospel that angels of darkness shall masquerade as angels of light and led astray many.

The prophet (saw) defended himself and only waged war on those that attacked him and his followers. As allah states in the quran;-

And it is not your wealth, nor your children that bring you nearer to Us , but only he who believes, and does righteous deeds ; as for such, there will be two fold reward for what they did, and they will reside in the high dwellings (Paradise) in peace and security.
(  سورة سبأ  , Saba, Chapter #34, Verse #37)

Have you ever wondered where those poor copies of the old testament found themselves in the Koran? Now you know!

are you saying prophet muhammed(saw) copied the old testament. The first arabic version of the bible was in 1000A.D, the quran had already been revealed to the prophet muhammed(saw) at around 667A.D in arabic. The prophet(saw) only understood arabic and no other language

<sup>ho ho ho!

Thank u my dear --- You are right , this World is full of different kind of people --- but , i wish everybody should turn and understand SATAN our true Creator .</sup>

Judek2:

Hohohohoho

Many kindda people full this world.

Ogaga4Luv:

[size=13pt]<sup>ho ho ho!   

Thank u my dear --- You are right , this World is full of different kind of people --- but , i wish everybody should turn and understand SATAN our true Creator .</sup> [/size]

brentkruge:

The Quran Dehumanizes Non-Muslims
and Says that They are Vile Animals

The Ayatollah Khomeini, who dedicated his entire life to studying Islam, said that non-Muslims rank somewhere between "feces" and the "sweat of a camel that has consumed impure food." . The Quran dehumanizes non-Muslims, describing them as “animals” and beasts:

Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (98:6)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)

Verse 7:176 compares unbelievers to "panting dogs" with regard to their idiocy and worthlessness. Verse 7:179 says they are like "cattle" only worse.

Verse 5:60 even says that Allah transformed Jews of the past into apes and pigs. This is echoed by verses 7:166 and 2:65.

A hadith says that Muhammad believed rats to be "mutated Jews" (Bukhari 54:524, also confirmed by Sahih Muslim 7135 and 7136).

Verses 46:29-35 even say that unbelieving men are worse than demons who believe in Muhammad.

According to Islamic law, non-Muslims may be owned as property by Muslims, but - in keeping with Islam's supremacist message - a fellow Muslim should never be (unless they convert to Islam after enslavement). Even Christians and Jews are not considered fully human in that the penalty for killing one of them is limited to one-third of the compensation due for unintentionally killing a Muslim.

brentkruge:

Allah Actually Causes Non-Muslims to Sin

Not content with merely preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth (which is enough to condemn them to Hell) the Quran says that a hateful Allah also causes unbelievers to commit the very sin that he will later punish them for:

And if Allah please He would certainly make you a single nation, but He causes to err whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases; and most certainly you will be questioned as to what you did (16:93)

Although Satan tempts Muslims, it is Allah himself who causes unbelievers to err.

…and whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall not find a way for him. (4:143, see also 4:88 and 74:31)

Allah intentionally sends the people that he hates astray:

…and Allah sendeth him astray purposely, and sealeth up his hearing and his heart, and setteth on his sight a covering? Then who will lead him after Allah (hath condemned him)? Will ye not then heed? (45:23)

Allah even sends demons to inspire unbelievers to commit further bad deeds (that he can later hold against them):

See thou not that We have set the Evil Ones on against the unbelievers, to incite them with fury? (19:83)

According to verse 3:54, Allah plots and schemes against unbelievers using deceit (the literal meaning of makara, the word used). Elsewhere, the Quran explains that Allah tricks unbelievers into thinking that they are doing good deeds, when, in fact, they are merely deepening their own eternal punishment with bad deeds:

As to those who do not believe in the hereafter, We have surely made their deeds fair-seeming to them, but they blindly wander on. (27:4) See also 39:23, 6:39, 35:8, 13:27 & 14:4)

Allah recruits Satan to join Him into fooling unbelievers into thinking that they are doing good:

On the contrary their hearts became hardened, and Satan made their (sinful) acts seem alluring to them. (6:43)

The joke is on non-Muslims, of course, who will protest on Judgment Day that they did everything they thought was right – but are sent to Hell anyway:

Then would they offer submission (with the pretence), "We did no evil (knowingly)." (The angels will reply), "Nay, but verily Allah knows all that ye did; "So enter the gates of Hell, to dwell therein. (16:28-29)

Sweetnecta:

and in the Bible, Jehovah drowned Egyptians so that His people can go.

Jehovah then wasted the israelites in the deserted because they became of other religion by invented a lord/god as golden calf. the philistines were disbelievers and they were murdered.

Bibles say disbelievers, including muslims of course are infidels [book of Timothy].

Jehovah hardened the heart of Pharaoh so that he will drowned at the end.

Our father Adam became a sinner because Jehovah allowed the snake to talk sweet nothing to Eve, who in turn told Adam to eat the apple.

Jehovah allowed satan to drive Jesus into the wilderness for 40 days and after it he cursed a tree which caused the tree to die.

tomzman:

Hello Ivoice, long time.I'm back on the laptop now so, let me quickly give you a few of what Christianity has to offer from the bible.Please take note of the bolded parts. 

nice to hear from you tomzman, i missed yah too

tomzman:

John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.”
John 3:16-18 For this is the way God loved the world: he gave his one and only Son that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 The one who believes in Him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.


John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
John 14:1-3 1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

 

LagosShia:

@brentkruge
it is actually irritating replying to you because you lie! it makes you worse than feces!!!

please present the reference of where Ayatollah Khomeini made that statement. - The Ayatollah Khomeini, who dedicated his entire life to studying Islam, said that non-Muslims rank somewhere between "feces" and the "sweat of a camel that has consumed impure food." Shocked Shocked Shocked. The Quran dehumanizes non-Muslims, describing them as “animals” and beasts:

to say among the people of the book are the "worst of creatures" is no insult!

lie!why do you deliberately mistranslate "creatures" to "animals"?

here is what the verse says:

Holy Quran 8:55
Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe -
please do not tell us what the verses say.quote them,let us read what they say.then we can understand what they are talking about and we will either confirm or deny what is being said.
someone like yourself really should not even be compared to dogs and cattle.that would be insulting to those poor animals.you are definitely worse.an animal does not lie like you to in order to spite others.

please do not tell us what the verses say.quote them,let us read what they say.then we can understand what they are talking about and we will either confirm or deny what is being said.

you are lying to us that Islam permits enslaving others.you are talking about prisoners of war and not slavery,mind you.there is a big difference.muslims are not told to enslave anyone while we see in the bible even jews are permitted to enslave jews!!!

According to Islamic law, non-Muslims may be owned as property by Muslims, but - in keeping with Islam's supremacist message - a fellow Muslim should never be (unless they convert to Islam after enslavement). Even Christians and Jews are not considered fully human in that the penalty for killing one of them is limited to one-third of the compensation due for unintentionally killing a Muslim

someone like yourself really should not even be compared to dogs and cattle.that would be insulting to those poor animals.you are definitely worse.an animal does not lie like you to in order to spite others.

brentkruge:

Lets get a neutral body to confirm that Ayatollah Khomeini made that statement to the HORROR of the civilized humans world over. Its from the United Nations Human Rights Council report at http://lib.ohchr.org/HRBodies/UPR/Documents/Session7/IR/JC_UPR_IRN_S07_2010_JubileeCampaign.pdf mind you, if it weren't true Iran would have made alot of noise by now.

In fact Why do we need the Ayatollah when you just said i am worse than feces! You are one funny dude

Really? of all Allah creatures? worms, maggots and all? they are worse than that? Surely Allah's creatures cant be THAT bad. Wait, why would Allah insult his creations so. If he felt so strongly why not use his powers to change them? It looks like Allah couldn't do anything about it and is very upset and gave that insult in a rage. I see you are in agreement with the passage. You must hurt bad.

Surely being told one is the worst animal is better than being told one is the worst creature. There are creatures worst than Animals!

Seriously, I see that there are variations in the translations. Animals or creatures depends on where you go. And if the experts say "animals" then animal is it. They are better at it than you my friend.
http://www.al-islam.org/greater_sins_complete/26.htm
http://english.bayynat.org.lb/quran/AL-ANFAL6.htm ( Website of the religious authority of Sayyed Mohammed Hussain Fadlallah)

You are a Muslim. Just look it up in your holy books. For others google it if you think i am wrong

Only children of slaves or non-Muslim prisoners of war could become slaves, never a freeborn Muslim.[3] They also consider manumission of a slave to be one of many meritorious deeds available for the expiation of sins.[4] According to Sharia, slaves are considered human beings and possessed some rights on the basis of their humanity. In addition, a Muslim slave is equal to a Muslim freeman in religious issues and superior to the free non-Muslim.

The Arab slave trade was most active in West Asia, North Africa and East Africa. By the end of the 19th century, such activity had reached a low ebb. In the early 20th century (post World War I) slavery was gradually outlawed and suppressed in Muslim lands, largely due to pressure exerted by Western nations such as Britain and France.[2] However, slavery claiming the sanction of Islam is documented presently in the African republics of Chad, Mauritania, Niger, Mali and Sudan

Under Islamic law, a slave possesses a composite quality of being both a person and a possession.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery

For Diyya, it varies. The least is of course a third for a non muslim
The four Sunni legal schools of thought debated what should be the Diyya for a Jew or Christian, who were considered Dhimmi. [b]According to the Shafi school, the Diyya in such a case was a third paid for a Muslim/b]. The Maliki prescribed half. The Hanafi school, on the other hand, does not differentiate between a Muslim and non-Muslim.

In Saudi Arabia (Wahhabi), when a person has been killed or caused to die by another, the prescribed blood money rates are as follows:
100,000 riyals if the victim is a Muslim man
50,000 riyals if a Muslim woman
50,000 riyals if a Christian or Jewish man
25,000 riyals if a Christian or Jewish woman
6,666 riyals if a man of any other religion
3,333 riyals if a woman of any other religion (a woman of any other religion is worth JUST 3% in value than a Muslim man!)
I wonder how much atheists are worth? Are they not human?

Who is worse than dogs and cattle now? *shakes head* You dont even know your Quran!

LagosShia:

please quote the part/words.you presented a UN report.and amazing how a UN report in 2009,20 years after Ayatollah Khomeini's death is quoting those words.its either the report is false or the words are forged.

Allah's creatures are all inherently good.that is what we are told in the Quran.furthermore,we are told that man is the best of creatures.so whatever evil man turns himself into,you should be blamed for it:

please name them and tell us what makes them worse than animals.

you are bringing up claims which are old and debunked that "frosbel" brought up long ago.

Islam opposes slavery and Islam orders the freedom of slaves.unlike the bible where jews even take jews as slaves,nothing like that exists in Islam.if muslim practice whatever they like,that is not Islam.both christianity and its bible actively promoted slavery.it is authorized and encouraged!!!

brentkruge:

How can it amaze you that 20 years after Khomeini's death his words are still being quoted. Are we not quoting the words of the prophets who died thousands of years ago? Are we not quoting Sardauna (50 years), Shakespeare (300+ years ago) etc. What on earth are you talking about?

Maybe you have no adobe reader on your computer to read the report get it at www.adobe.com for free.

Including not believing in Allah makes one the worst of animals? Why cant Allah show me how he loves me? Tries to convert me by force and when I refuse I am the worst of Animals? Thanks Allah. I dont need you.

Semantics. Your Quran says that so why ask your Mullahs on the difference? Quran 8:55 is clear

I don't care what the Christian Bible says on the matter. We are talking about the Quran here. Don't go saying that so and so book says it also. What are you trying to prove. Cant the Qur'an be judged on its own merit? Must it be compared?

If the Quran is Gods authentic word then it should stand alone and be judged BY ITS OWN STANDARD. Not another's.

I have already showed you from my post above on slavery. Either respond to that or remain silent.

LagosShia:

i have adobe.dont worry.

you presented a document of several pages and you expect me to find in which part is an alleged sentence of Ayatollah Khomeini quoted.

if it is there,quote it for us to read.

and who says He loves? please we are not christians trading with fake love:"Jesus loves you".no he does not love you.if you think all He has done for you to live and be typing nonsense is not love,then that is your problem.too bad for you.
you made a claim that there are creatures that are worse than animals.tell us their name.it is not the QQuran that made that claim.

that is obviously a trick you are using with your username.anyways the claims you made lack merit and no basis in Islam.Muslims definitely there could be among them who are bad eggs.they may have had a hand in slavery but that is un-islamic [/b]just as you see muslims drinking alcohol are committing un-islamic act.

i made it clear and provided you links to the discussiong already discussed which has evidence and proof that Islam opposes slavery.there are Quranic verses and islamic references stated there.i further went on to make it clear that it is the bible and christianity that supports slavery.you made a claim that it was the western nations who are the christian slave masters and colonialist and their presence in muslim north africa that led to the decline in slavery in north africa.[b]you brought the christians into this in an obvious way to tactically give them credit but you will always fail, and since we are either muslim or christian mostly,each time you pretend not to be a christian and you want to cage us by ignorantly engaging and wasting our time to discuss Islam to you based on your claims,then i will not hesitate at all from making sure i have enough in flogging christianity and the bible after dismissing your claims and clarifying issues from the Islamic point.it will go hand in hand,trust me.also,since you have refused to tell us what you are.it is obvious you could be another of "frosbel's" username.tell us what you are and then the suspicion would be dropped against you.

brentkruge:

The document is JUST 5 Pages. Is this how you are research averse you are and yet you engage in debates?! If you that lazy, press ctrl+F, type Khomeini and press enter as many times as will bring you to the section. You are wasting my time and yours

Met Christians and grind your axe with them. If the Quran is challenged STICK TO YOUR QURAN. Dont go, this book also says this and that. The passage Quran 8:55 is clear. Go back to my posts. Part of 8:55 from where I quoted says "animals", you said its "creatures", saying I mis-translated, I give you two Islamic websites that say 'animals' and from where i got the quote. And you are bringing silly challenges. Ok, check your dictionary. A creature can be defined as anything created, whether animate or inanimate. However a human belongs to the broad classification of an Animal (as in Animal and Plant kingdoms). If a creature can mean an inanimate object, isn't it better to be referred to as an animal within this context?

You could be right, or wrong. State your facts so you convince me and/or others

I didnt bring "Christians" into this. You did. Its a historical fact that after their own slavery the west pressured others to drop it. Do I not mention the west cos it would be misconstrued as giving Christians credit? Are you serious? So America etc are synanimous with Christians abi? In case you don't know, the west say they are in a POST RELIGIOUS era. Whatever that means. Even US president Barack was once raised as a Muslim, his father was a Muslim once and he has a middle name Hussein. A country that has voted to remove God in all its official matters. America has its big big faults but its tolerance to religious minorities, even though not perfect, is what is worthy of commendation when compared to other countries.

If you find it difficult to properly debate, just stay silent. All this "frosbel" tag makes you sound like someone who when defeated or doesn't find appropriate answers, resorts to casting aspersion on the person with whom he is debating. Its childish.

ivoice247:

It's not brentkruge's fault; Although in the verse (Q8:55), the arabic word used is "dawwaba" which means "creatures", some others have translated this word to mean "animal" or "beasts", which is the translation i'm guessing brentkrudge came across.

This is the beauty of the quran, as it's the only holy book  in existence today that everyone in every part of the world can read in it's original revealed language (arabic) any time. If you understood arabic, the meaning of this word wouldn't be a problem. 

So for argument sake, whether "dawwaba" means creatures or beasts or animal etc the verse (Q8:55) still implies that ; the worst of creatures/animals/beasts in the sight of Allah are those who've disbelieved and will not believe

Finally, according to Islam, allah created all living things (mankind, animal, jinn, angels etc) to worship HIM alone. Our primary aim of coming to this world is to worship allah, every other thing is secondary. So therefore if any creature/animal/beasts does not worship allah, then that creature is truly the worst creature. IT'S THAT SIMPLE;-

Allah states in the glorious quran "and I (Allah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone)"
(  سورة الذاريات  , Adh-Dhariyat, Chapter #51, Verse #56)

LagosShia:

i am not the one researching here.i did not beg you to give me research materials.you made a false claim or your report did.any which way,the burden of proof lies on you.im still waiting.

who is even talking about Quran 8:55? so your own game too is now trick.you made a claim that there are creatures worse than animals.i asked you to tell me their names.is it that hard for you to understand?

whatever you want from the Quran or Islam,face me.i will teach you and make you look even worse than the brain-dead christians.as for pointing at the bible and christianity,i will do it.i dont know why that pains you so much.i will do it for reference.even if you are not interested.you are interested in arguments.so be it.

are you having eye problem? did you not see the verses from the Holy Quran i presented above or may be you didn't read them?
slavery by the west did not exist in what you call "post religious era".did it?

you are hooked my friend.answer what you have refused in the above.i am not going anywhere and i will not stay silent.i'm here with you to the last breath.

ivoice247:

It's not brentkruge's fault; Although in the verse (Q8:55), the arabic word used is "dawwaba" which means "creatures", some others have translated this word to mean "animal" or "beasts", which is the translation i'm guessing brentkrudge came across.

This is the beauty of the quran, as it's the only holy book  in existence today that everyone in every part of the world can read in it's original revealed language (arabic) any time. If you understood arabic, the meaning of this word wouldn't be a problem. 

So for argument sake, whether "dawwaba" means creatures or beasts or animal etc the verse (Q8:55) still implies that ; the worst of creatures/animals/beasts in the sight of Allah are those who've disbelieved and will not believe

Finally, according to Islam, allah created all living things (mankind, animal, jinn, angels etc) to worship HIM alone. Our primary aim of coming to this world is to worship allah, every other thing is secondary. So therefore if any creature/animal/beasts does not worship allah, then that creature is truly the worst creature. IT'S THAT SIMPLE;-

Allah states in the glorious quran "and I (Allah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone)"
(  سورة الذاريات  , Adh-Dhariyat, Chapter #51, Verse #56)