babs787:

@Tidytim & FroSbel

@Tdytim, you should have allowed Frosbel to respond rather than helping him/her out but all the same, my response would be addressed to both of you. I am also sorry for my late response, my link was down yesterday as I was about sending it.

Please do enjoy.

frosbel:



And you are right , Aaron was not a prophet he was a priest.

Moses was a prophet.

Again, even the Arab Christians find this rather absurd, so let's leave it here, to avoid causing you further embarrassment.

ivoice247:

Aaron the brother of Moses was a prophet but the other Aaron the brother to Virgin Mary was not a prophet. And the quran states:-
Q4v163;- Verily, We have sent the revelation to you as We sent the revelation to Nuh (Noah) and the Prophets after him; We sent the revelation to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and Al-Asbat, 'Îsa (Jesus), Ayyub (Job), Yunus (Jonah), Harun (aaron), and Sulaiman (Solomon); and to Dawud (David) We gave the Zabur (Psalms).


@frosbel. [b]the difference between you and me is that i back up my answers with quote from quran or bible, [/b]while you just make assumptions or copy other people's opinion. 

frosbel:

I have no time for circular arguments, this subject has been addressed in a response I gave to ivoice247 a few posts up.

Typical Muslims way of debating, you pesent the facts on a particular subject , and they keep asking for a repeat of these same facts , almost as if , they never saw the previous comments you made   , I have no time for games.

This is about your Soul, and if you were to die today without the total forgiveness of your sins , thinking that with all the lies, lust and wickedness , you will be in paradise with Christ , you risk eternal damnation.

Do not kid yourself , this is serious stuff, Satan has you in his net.

And by the way , this is about ISLAM and the fraud of it, why are we talking about the bible, 

frosbel:

Another LIE , a bare faced one, my am I surprised. !!  Even after I posted dozens of bible verses to support my previous positions and to counter your twisted logic.

In my bible , there is NOTHING , to suggest in the remotest that Mary was the sister of Aaron.

Try another LIE.

I have no time for circular arguments, this subject has been addressed in a response I gave to ivoice247 a few posts up.

Typical Muslims way of debating, you pesent the facts on a particular subject , and they keep asking for a repeat of these same facts , almost as if , they never saw the previous comments you made   , I have no time for games.

This is about your Soul, and if you were to die today without the total forgiveness of your sins , thinking that with all the lies, lust and wickedness , you will be in paradise with Christ , you risk eternal damnation.

Do not kid yourself , this is serious stuff, Satan has you in his net.

And by the way , this is about ISLAM and the fraud of it, why are we talking about the bible,  

babs787:

@Frosbel

I do not really blame you because[b] your brain has been programmed to stick to yourself without confirming the truth[/b] whereas your bible said you should confirm all things all hold fast to the truth.

I did not see any facts but LIES.] You supported TRINITY but all you could do was to hide behind sayings of those that did not witness Jesus' teaching but rely on hearsay as in the case of Luke.Provide verses where Jesus preached Trinity. Mind Jesus your bible was written thousand of years after Jesus demise and [b]NOBODY witnessed his teaching. [/b]

frosbel:

I have no time for circular arguments, this subject has been addressed in a response I gave to ivoice247 a few posts up.

Typical Muslims way of debating, you pesent the facts on a particular subject , and they keep asking for a repeat of these same facts , almost as if , they never saw the previous comments you made  , I have no time for games.

This is about your Soul, and if you were to die today without the total forgiveness of your sins , thinking that with all the lies, lust and wickedness , you will be in paradise with Christ , you risk eternal damnation.

Do not kid yourself , this is serious stuff, Satan has you in his net.

And by the way , this is about ISLAM and the fraud of it, why are we talking about the bible, 

frosbel:

I have no time for circular arguments, this subject has been addressed in a response I gave to ivoice247 a few posts up.

Typical Muslims way of debating, you pesent the facts on a particular subject , and they keep asking for a repeat of these same facts , almost as if , they never saw the previous comments you made  , I have no time for games.

This is about your Soul, and if you were to die today without the total forgiveness of your sins , thinking that with all the lies, lust and wickedness , you will be in paradise with Christ , you risk eternal damnation.

Do not kid yourself , this is serious stuff, Satan has you in his net.

And by the way , this is about ISLAM and the fraud of it, why are we talking about the bible, 

ivoice247:

Your bible states Mary had no brother called Aaron, the Quran states Mary had a brother called Aaron, you believe your bible and i believe my quran. No problem because the quran states (Q2v256);-
There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path.

davidylan:

Because without it the quran is an incoherent mass of words.

the quran can "state" whatever nonsense it likes but the bible has REAL HISTORY on its side. There is no historical book out there that suggests even remotely that Aaron was the brother to mary. So just what exactly is the quran "stating"? You are proud to believe a lie? Shame on you.

LagosShia:

keep wishing blindman.history my foot-like the way the ruler of egypt in Joseph's time is addressed as "pharaoh of egypt" before the pharaonic dynasty while the Quran rightly refers to him as "king of egypt"?thats just one instance!

and are you a donkey that you keep repeating the same thing over and over?

ivoice247:

Because the quran states its been tampered and the way to recognize a book from God that has been tampered is that it would contain many contradictions. As the quran states;-

Q5:15 - O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Now has come to you Our Messenger (Muhammad) explaining to you much of that which you used to hide from the Scripture and pass over much. Indeed, there has come to you from Allah a light and a plain book (this Qur'an).

Q4:82 - Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein many a contradiction.

tomzman:

This doesn't answer any of my questions.Go through the whole of my last post and post your answers or have you run out of answers? 

You have just made a complete caricature of yourself, when you say the bible was written thousands of years after Christ you show a complete ignorance of history. The Old testament books were completed in the Year 450BC , the New testament before 100AD. So what on earth are you on about. 

To  make matters worse, saying no one witnessed the teachings of Jesus is so hilarious it will make a good comedy. If there were no witnesses, how come we have many of the stories about Jesus plagiarised, albeit in a twisted fashion , in your so called Holy book.  You and your cohorts , have made a mockery of your religion today, go get am imam to debate with me.

It seems time to dust all my bible versions has arrived

davidylan:

this takes the cake for how dumb, desperate for relevance and deluded muslims truly are. The term "king" is as generic as they come. For example the Ooni of Ife is exactly the same thing as saying the "King" of Ife. There is absolutely nothing unique about the term "king". The quran could have simply called every ruler in the bible "king" and it would have been RIGHT!

ivoice247:

Really! after reading all my posts, you still aren't convinced. That's to be expected as many people before you too didn't believe in the quran has stated (Q7v132):-

They said: "Whatever Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) you may bring to us, to work therewith your sorcery on us, we shall never believe in you."

ivoice247:

And on the Day of Judgement, Jesus(as) will say (Q5v117-118):-
"Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
"If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."

Even in the bible, Jesus(as) states One Lord and God (NLT Bible, the bk of Mark 12;29) -
Jesus replied, "The most important commandment is this: 'Listen, O Israel! The LORD our God is the one and only LORD.

Tabari VII:29 "Abu Sufyan and the horsemen of the Quraysh were returning from Syria following the coastal road. When Allah’s Apostle heard about them he called his companions together and told them of the wealth they had with them and the fewness of their numbers. The Muslims set out with no other object than Sufyan and the men with him. They did not think that this raid would be anything other than easy booty."

Bukhari:V5B59N702 "Allah did not admonish anyone who had not participated in the Ghazwa [raid] of Badr, for in fact, Allah’s Apostle had only gone out in search of the Quraysh caravan so that he could rob it. But Allah arranged for the Muslims and their enemy to meet by surprise. I was at the Aqabah pledge with Allah’s Apostle when we gave our lives in submission, but the Badr battle is more popular amongst the people. I was never stronger or wealthier than I was when I followed the Prophet on a Ghazwa.'"

Tabari VII:29/Ishaq:289 "The Apostle heard that Abu Sufyan [a Meccan merchant] was coming from Syria with a large Quraysh caravan containing their money and their merchandise. He was accompanied by only thirty men."

Ishaq:288 "Allah divided the booty stolen from the first caravan after he made spoils permissible. He gave four-fifths to those He had allowed to take it and one-fifth to His Apostle."

Ishaq:289 "The people answered the Prophet's summons; some eagerly, some reluctantly." Tabari VII:29 "When Abu Sufyan heard that Muhammad’s Companions were on their way to intercept his caravan, he sent a message to the Quraysh. 'Muhammad is going to intercept our caravan, so protect your merchandise.' When the Quraysh heard this, the people of Mecca hastened to defend their property and protect their men as they were told Muhammad was lying in wait for them."

Tabari VII:30 "Meanwhile the Prophet was praying, bowing and prostrating himself, and also seeing and hearing the treatment of the slave. When the slave told them that the Quraysh had come to meet them, they began to beat him and called him a liar. 'You are trying to conceal the whereabouts of Abu Sufyan and his caravan. They beat him severely and continued to interrogate him but they found that he had no knowledge of what they were looking for."

Ishaq:300/Tabari VII:55 "Allah’s Messenger went out to his men and incited them to fight. He promised, 'Every man may keep all the booty he takes.' Then Muhammad said, 'By Allah, if any man fights today and is killed fighting aggressively, going forward and not retreating, Allah will cause him to enter Paradise.'"

Tabari VII:65 "Allah’s Messenger came back to Medina, bringing with him the booty which had been taken from the polytheists, There were forty-four captives in the Messenger of Allah’s possession. There was a similar number of dead."
Ishaq:308 "Muhammad halted on a sandhill and divided the booty Allah had given him equally. Then Muslims from Medina met him at Rauha. They congratulated him on the victory Allah had granted. But one of the warriors replied, 'What are you congratulating us about? We only met some bald old women like the sacrificial camels who are hobbled, and we slaughtered them.' The Apostle smiled because he knew that description fit ."

Tabari VII:81 "'What do you think Khattab.' Muhammad asked. 'I say you should hand them over to me so that I can cut off their heads. Hand Hamzah's brother over to him so that he can cut off his head. Hand over Aqil to Ali so that he can cut off his brother's head. Thus Allah will know that there is no leniency in our hearts toward the unbelievers.' The Messenger liked what Abu Bakr said and did not like what I said, and accepted ransoms for the captives."

brentkruge:

Can someone tell me what this means?

Tabari VII:81 "'What do you think Khattab.' Muhammad asked. 'I say you should hand them over to me so that I can cut off their heads. Hand Hamzah's brother over to him so that he can cut off his head. Hand over Aqil to Ali so that he can cut off his brother's head. Thus Allah will know that there is no leniency in our hearts toward the unbelievers.' The Messenger liked what Abu Bakr said and did not like what I said, and accepted ransoms for the captives."

ivoice247:



[color=#990000]I now agree with LagosShia that people like you are just trying to be mischevious. What you posted above is just one paragraph from about ten paragraphs from tafsir al-tabari explaining theses events. These captives had murdered, mutilated and cut-out the heart of hazrat hamzah that's why khattab wanted the captives head cut off so as to avenge hamzah's death.
But the prophet (saw) accepted ransoms for the captives as a gesture of mercy rather than carrying out the wishes of Khattab. 

Tabari VII:81 "'What do you think Khattab.' Muhammad asked. 'I say you should hand them over to me so that I can cut off their heads. Hand Hamzah's brother over to him so that he can cut off his head. Hand over Aqil to Ali so that he can cut off his brother's head. Thus Allah will know that there is no leniency in our hearts toward the unbelievers.' The Messenger liked what Abu Bakr said and did not like what I said, and accepted ransoms for the captives."

Tabari VII:29/Ishaq:289 "The Apostle heard that Abu Sufyan [a Meccan merchant] was coming from Syria with a large Quraysh caravan containing their money and their merchandise. He was accompanied by only thirty men."

Ishaq:288 "Allah divided the booty stolen from the first caravan after he made spoils permissible. He gave four-fifths to those He had allowed to take it and one-fifth to His Apostle."

Ishaq:300/Tabari VII:55 "Allah’s Messenger went out to his men and incited them to fight. He promised, 'Every man may keep all the booty he takes.' Then Muhammad said, 'By Allah, if any man fights today and is killed fighting aggressively, going forward and not retreating, Allah will cause him to enter Paradise.'"

Tabari VII:29 "Abu Sufyan and the horsemen of the Quraysh were returning from Syria following the coastal road. When Allah’s Apostle heard about them he called his companions together and told them of the wealth they had with them and the fewness of their numbers. The Muslims set out with no other object than Sufyan and the men with him. They did not think that this raid would be anything other than easy booty."

LagosShia:

^^^^^^^^

Mr.brentkruge,

you can do yourself a very big favor and the entire world miraculous knowledge in this our age and time by telling instead what did the unbelievers of the pagan Quraysh did to Hamzah and Aqeel (as)? can you do that?

or do you think our Prophet (sa) was a niger-delta militant who was on the rampage bloodthirsty for wealth and kidnapping and killing people at will? dont quote a few sentence and mischievously like the fool you are tell us what does it mean? what do you mean?

brentkruge:

The hadiths will help us decide. Its in the court of public opinion now, pal.

LagosShia:

the hadiths will not help someone like you decide when you do not want to use your head.you present the hadiths with the[b] impression[/b] that early muslims with the lead of the Prophet (sa) were pirates and robbers who were not offended or oppressed but they were oppressing others.and that is wrong my friend.

you should present the hadiths that talk about what happened to Hamza and Aqeel (as) and who did what to them.