brentkruge:

The Ayatollah Khomeini, who dedicated his entire life to studying Islam, said that non-Muslims rank somewhere between "feces" and the "sweat of a camel that has consumed impure food." - United Nations Human Rights Council report at http://lib.ohchr.org/HRBodies/UPR/Documents/Session7/IR/JC_UPR_IRN_S07_2010_JubileeCampaign.pdf

I made a reference and provided the link. If you believe fine, if you don't click on the link and feed your eyes. Anyway this is not just for you but the billions who have access to this page. If you don't believe and don't check it up, na you sabi

I explained how being referred to as a creature (which can mean inanimate object) within that context is worst than being called an animal (a living thing). You are still asking me to name them. Which part of the word inanimate and animal do you not understand?

Its 20/20 vision here. I am working on it; compilation in progress. Meccan verses vs Medina verses vs Naskh will equal my answer. I just don't reply as you do. I like to get my facts right. I advice you do the same.

Nooooo sir, I don't want you to be silent. If you are then the debate ends (unless someone else picks the gauntlet). But i won't be here with you to the last breath. I have more important things to do with my life other than argue with someone as bellicose as you.

ivoice247:


Although Muslims believe in Jesus(as a servant of allah) and his preaching of the gospel, we totally reject the present day bible because it has been tampered with and therefore has too many contradictions, that's why allah revealed the quran to muhammed(saw) telling us who jesus (as) truly was and that he (jesus) practised islam. One of the contradictions in the verses stated above is that of "eternal life". According to many books in the bible, Eternal life does not mean to believe in the Jesus Christ but rather to keep thy commandments;-

ivoice247:


According to many books in the bible, Eternal life does not mean to believe in the Jesus Christ but rather to keep thy commandments;- [/color]

According to the bk of Matthew 19:17 -"Why ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. But to answer your question--if you want to receive eternal life, keep the commandments."

ivoice247:

Another contradiction you quoted from the book of John, where God supposedly states that he gave is one and "only" son,   In the bible God calls different people his sons and i'll quote 2 instances where he calls Solomon and David his son.

1 Chronicles, chapter 17: verse 13;-

(God is being quoted as speaking to Nathan, regarding David)

13: I will be his Father, and he shall be my Son; I will not take my steadfast love from him, as I took it from him who was before you,



Again in the same chronicles,1 Chronicles, chapter 28: verse 6:-

(Here, David is being quoted)

He said to me, `It is Solomon your son who shall build my house and my courts, for I have chosen him to be my Son, and I will be his Father. 

tomzman:

This is laughable.You guys believe the present day Bible has been tampered with but there are verses from the same 'tampered with' Bible in your 'holy' quran.You need proof?.Compare surah 5:48 with Exodus 21:23-25, surah 21:105 with Psalm 37:29, surah 16:10-12,15-16 with Psalm 104:10,14,19-20 and Psalm 16, surah 7:40 with Matthew 19:24,Mark 10:25,Luke 18:25.You need more?.

LagosShia also posted this same thing sometime ago.Well, I think you guys generally have a problem of lack of understanding.You both failed to quote and understand the whole story.Let me help you.Here is Matthew 19:17-30

17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

27Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Finally, the excuse you gave concerning the issue of the brackets in the brackets in the quran is a lame one.Any book at all that is intended to be relevant to everyone in the world should pass the test of being translated into any language without losing its message.All the versions of the Bible carry the same message and even the ones that contain brackets, when you read the passages while ignoring the brackets, the message is still the same.That is what a Word of God should be like.   

i used brackets again

Bukhari:V4B52N220 "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been made victorious with
terror.'"

Qur'an:8:12 "[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.""

Ishaq:326 "If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify
those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make
a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah's
enemies."

Qur'an:8:67 "It is not for a prophet to have captives [of war] until he inflicts a massacre [upon Allah 's enemies] [/b]in the land. Some Muslims desire the commodities of this world, but Allah desires [for you] the Hereafter. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."

Tabari IX:42 "We have been dealt a situation from which there is no
escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done.
Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the
strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from
him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being
[b]terrorized."

Ishaq:326 "Allah said, 'No Prophet before Muhammad took booty
from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.' Muhammad
said, 'I was made victorious with terror. The earth was
made a place for me to clean. I was given the most
powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was
given the power to intercede. These five privileges were
awarded to no prophet before me.'"

Ishaq:327 "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting
captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land.
Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its
goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah
desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"

Ishaq:510 "When the Apostle looked down on Khaybar he told his
Companions, 'O Allah, Lord of the Devils and what into
terror they throw, and Lord of the winds and what they
winnow, we ask Thee for the booty of this town and its
people. Forward in the name of Allah.' He used to say
this of every town he raided."

Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer [Prayer of Fear]
near Khaybar when it was still dark. He said, 'Allahu-
Akbar!' [Allah is Greatest] Khaybar is destroyed, for
whenever we approach a hostile nation to fight, then evil
will be the morning for those who have been warned.'
Then the inhabitants came out running on their roads.
The Prophet had their men killed; their children and
woman were taken as captives."

Bukhari:V9B87N127 "The Prophet said, 'I have been given the keys of
eloquent speech and given victory with terror.'"

Ishaq:511
"So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their
property bit by bit. He conquered home by home. The
Messenger took some people captive, including Safiyah
and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for
himself."

Tabari VIII:133 "The raiding party went to Tha'labah. One of
Muhammad's slaves, said, 'Prophet, I know where
Tha'labah can be taken by surprise.' So Muhammad sent
him with 130 men. They raided the town and drove off
camels and sheep, bringing them back to Medina."

Qur'an:33:26 And He brought down those who supported them among the People of the Scripture from their fortresses and cast terror into their hearts [so that] a party you killed, and you took captive a party.

Tabari VIII:143 "In this year a twenty-four man raiding party led by
Shuja went to the Banu Amir. He launched a raid on
them and took camels and sheep. The shares of booty
came to fifteen camels for each man. Also a raid led by
Amr went to Dhat. He set out with fifteen men. He
encountered a large force whom he summoned to Islam.
They refused to respond so he killed all of them."

Bukhari:V4B52N256 "The Prophet passed by and was asked whether it was
permissible to attack infidels at night with the
probability of exposing their women and children to
danger. The Prophet replied, 'Their women and children
are from them.'"

Ishaq:576 "Allah and His servant overwhelmed every coward.
Allah honored us and made our religion victorious. We
were glorified and destroyed them all. Allah humiliated
them in the worship of Satan. By what our Apostle
recites from the Book and by our swift horses, I liked the
punishment the infidels received. Killing them was
sweeter than drink. We galloped among them panting
for the spoil. With our loud-voiced army, the Apostle's
squadron advanced into the fray."

Tabari IX:69 "He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has
protected his life and possessions from us. As for those
who disbelieve, we will fight them forever in the Cause
of Allah. Killing them is a small matter to us."

brentkruge:

the Qur'an is the central religious text of Islam, which Muslims consider the verbatim word of God. Muslims maintain the present wording of the Quranic text corresponds exactly to that revealed to Muhammad himself: as the words of God, said to be delivered to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel. Muslims consider the Quran to be a guide, a sign of the prophethood of Muhammad and the truth of the religion. They argue it is not possible for a human to produce a book like the Quran, as the Quran itself maintains.

Muslims believe the Quran to be the book of divine guidance and direction for humanity and consider the text in its original Arabic to be the literal word of God.

But the following verse appear to be those of Prophet Mohammed himself:

(Koran 1:1-7)
In the name of the Merciful and Compassionate God.
Praise belongs to God,The Lord of the worlds, the merciful, the compassionate, the ruler of the day of the day of judgement! Thee we serve and Thee we ask for aid. Guide us in the right path,the path of those Thou art gracious to;not to those Thou art wroth with, nor of those who err.

These words are clearly addressed to God, in the form of a prayer. Are they are Mohammed's words of parise to God, asking for God's help and guidance.

brentkruge:

violation and Slavery approved under Prophet Mohammed

Sunaan Abu Dawud: Book 11, Number 2126:
Narrated Basrah:
A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I
entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet). The Prophet
(peace_be_upon_him) said: She will get the dower, for you made her va-gi-na lawful for you.
[b]The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her (according to the
version of al-Hasan). [/b]


Sunaan Abu Dawud: Book 11, Number 2153:
Narrated Ruwayfi' ibn Thabit al-Ansari:
Should I tell you what I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say on the day of
Hunayn: It is not lawful for a man who believes in Allah and the last day to water what
another has sown with his water (meaning intercourse with women who are pregnant); it is
not lawful for a man who believes in Allah and the Last Day to have intercourse with a
captive woman till she is free from a menstrual course; and it is not lawful for a man who
believes in Allah and the Last Day to sell spoil till it is divided.


Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do Reproduction interruptus with them.
So we asked Allah's Apostle about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the
question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will

These female captives are those who are captured in war , their father and husband are killed by believers. I dont think these captives would agree to Be Intimate with those men who killed their husband and father . This is violation ,


Sahih Bukhari: Volume 9, Book 93, Number 506:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and
intended to have intimate relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the
Prophet about Reproduction interrupt us. The Prophet said, "It is better that you should not do it, for
Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection." Qaza'a said, "I
heard Abu Sa'id saying that the Prophet said, 'No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will
create it."

Ishaq:580 "Our strong warriors obey his orders to the letter. By us
Allah's religion is undeniably strong. You would think
when our horses gallop with bits in their mouths that the
sounds of demons are among them. The day we trod
down the unbelievers there was no deviation or turning
from the Apostle's order. During the battle the people
heard our exhortations to fight and the smashing of
skulls by swords that sent heads flying. We severed
necks with a warrior's blow. Often we have left the slain
cut to pieces and a widow crying alas over her mutilated
husband. 'Tis Allah, not man we seek to please."

brentkruge:

Terror sanctioned by the Prophet and directed by God

LagosShia:

BIBLICAL VERSES OF TERROR AND KILLING:

Numbers 31:17-18
Now kill all the boys (in Midian). And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Judges 21:10-12
10So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11“This is what you are to do,” they said. “Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin.” 12They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.

1 Samuel 6:19
And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: [/b]and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

[b]Luke 19:27
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Luke 12:49
"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

2 Peter 2:12
"These false teachers are like unthinking animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed. They scoff at things they do not understand, and like animals, they will be destroyed."

John 2:15
[Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

Psalms 137:8-9
O Babylon, you will be destroyed. Happy is the one who pays you back for what you have done to us.Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks!

Psalms 139:19-22:
"Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: Depart from me therefore, ye bloodthirsty men. For they speak against thee wickedly, And thine enemies take (thy name) in vain. Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: They are become mine enemies."

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Luke 22:36,38
[Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one, " The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

Matthew 10:35
35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

Luke 12:50-53
50 But I have a baptsm to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

Hosea 13:16
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

Revelation 2:22-23
"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."

Deuteronomy 17:2-5
If there be found among you , that , hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them , Then shalt thou , tone them with stones, till they die.

brentkruge:

the Qur'an is the central religious text of Islam, which Muslims consider the verbatim word of God. Muslims maintain the present wording of the Quranic text corresponds exactly to that revealed to Muhammad himself: as the words of God, said to be delivered to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel. Muslims consider the Quran to be a guide, a sign of the prophethood of Muhammad and the truth of the religion. They argue it is not possible for a human to produce a book like the Quran, as the Quran itself maintains.

Muslims believe the Quran to be the book of divine guidance and direction for humanity and consider the text in its original Arabic to be the literal word of God.

But the following verse appear to be those of Prophet Mohammed himself:

(Koran 1:1-7)
In the name of the Merciful and Compassionate God.
Praise belongs to God,The Lord of the worlds, the merciful, the compassionate, the ruler of the day of the day of judgement! Thee we serve and Thee we ask for aid. Guide us in the right path,the path of those Thou art gracious to;not to those Thou art wroth with, nor of those who err.

These words are clearly addressed to God, in the form of a prayer. Are they are Mohammed's words of parise to God, asking for God's help and guidance.

ivoice247:

Yes, the bible has been tampered with, and many verses have been changed or removed BUT also many verses are still intact. Therefore, its the quran that lets us know which verses are true and which verses in the bible are false. For example; the quran states Jesus was a servant and moses was given the 10 commandments, so therefore, we'll believe the verses in the bible that states the same. As allah has stated in the quran Ch 5 v 15;-

ivoice247:


still my point, the following verses 18-19 is stated by jesus(as) to support keeping to the commandments in verse 17

you see, the verses above speak for itself; the young man was sorrowful because the commandment was too great for him as he had great possessions, so jesus(as) had to reassure him and his followers by stating the following verses below

ivoice247:

and jesus tells them to follow him and abandon their properties & family which peter replied; "we have forsaken all, and followed thee". Tell me tomzman, what was jesus asking them to follow according to all the verses above? Of course it's the commandment as stated in the verses 17-19 above. 

ivoice247:


You see that's why you have different versions of the bible with different statements even in the same verse. For example; according to 1kings 4:26; this same verse gives different accounts in different versions of the bible;-

king James Version- And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
And according to New Int'l Version & New Living Translation Bible it states:-
Solomon had four thousand stalls for chariot horses, and twelve thousand horses.

Now let's give examples of two words found in the bible that cannot be translated. "Allah" this is the name GOD calls himself. None of the prophets of the past ever spoke english but today every christian calls GOD by the english name; this is wrong. God is not the correct translation of Allah, that's why we'll use bracket for people that don't understand arabic so that they can have an idea what allah means. God in english, can also mean demi god if written in small letters, or even by adding "dess" you can have a female goddess. But Allah means allah regardless of capital letters or small letters and there's no female allah.

ivoice247:

Secondly, there's no where in the quran where the words christians & jews were mentioned by that name in arabic, the actually words used were nasara and yehudi OR allu kitab; meaning the followers of jesus and the followers of moses OR people of the scripture. You see these english words do not fully explain their true meaning unless you understand the arabic word. You see in many parts of the quran, allah says that the "nisara" will enter paradise, but this means that the people that followed jesus. But this is not referring to the christians of today, because definitely they are not following jesus preachings. (Jesus definitely did not say he's son of god )  As the quran states:-

He ['Îsa (jesus)] was not more than a slave. We granted Our Favour to him, and We made him an example for the Children of Israel (i.e. his creation without a father).
( سورة الزخرف , Az-Zukhruf, Chapter #43, Verse #59)

i used brackets again

goggs:

I wonder why LagosShia dodged the posts by Brent krug?

LagosShia:

is dishonety inborn in you or is it just a trait?or may be you are blinded by evil not to read my posts?

there is nothing that hopeless loser posted is that is not countered by my posts.dodge?shamless pig.

tomzman:

Oh I see.The scribes forgot to tamper with those verses  .
Have you read your history books well?.Which one came first, the Bible or Quran.Let's even assume that the present day bible has been tampered with or is not the original Bible as Muslims claim, the next logical questions that comes to mind is Where is the 'original' or 'untampered with' Bible, What evidence do you have to back up your claim?, Why does a book that was 'revealed' from heaven contain verses from a fake or 'tampered with' book?

Alright then.But going by your method of reasoning, since Jesus stated only six commandments in those verses, then it follows that by obeying those six only, eternal life is mine.Right?     

Now, let's practicalise this.You come to me and I say to you 'ivoice, come follow me'.What do I mean?.
You see, this is why many muslim students find it hard to pass English Language and Literature.They always fail to read in between the lines.So, if this passage was given to you in an exam as comprehension and they ask you two questions
1) How can a man inherit eternal life?
2) What in your opinion do you think Jesus was asking the man and his (Jesus) disciples to follow?
      I guess your answers would be like
1) By obeying the commandments
2) The commandments 
   My dear, go through the passage again.Your answers are staring at you in the face.

By implcation, what you are saying is that for me to truly understand the quran and by extension islam, I have to learn arabic so as to be able to read the original quran abi? But do you know that the first book on Accounting was written in Italian.Imagine what it would be like if all Accountants and Accounting students are compelled to learn that language for them to be able to read and understand the book and by extension Accounting.hmm

Two questions.
1) Since you claim those parts of the quran are not referring to the Christians of today, then Christians of which era are those parts referring to?

2) Can you give me the the preachings of Jesus that are not followed by the Christans of today:

ivoice247:

Yes i agree the bible came first.
How am i supposed to know where the original untampered version of the bible is, I should be asking you? Afterall, none of the prophets and neither of the disciples (john, luke, matthew, peter etc) spoke english so you christians should be the one telling us how you can rely so much on the present day version of the bible without evening knowing the content of the original bible.

[Shakir 16:43] And We did not send before you any but men to whom We sent revelation-- so ask the followers of the Reminder if you do not know--

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 16:43]
Dhikr refers to the Quran, and it is also one of the names of the Holy Prophet. See the commentary of Al Hijr: 9 and Talaq: 10 and 11. Ahl ul dhikr (the people of dhikr) are the Ahl ul Bayt. See the commentary of al Baqarah: ' and hadith al thaqalayn on page 6.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Dhikr literally means to call back to memory, or in other words to have something in conscious mind. It has been used figuratively for a stimulus which brings an object into the focus of consciousness. To be conscious of Allah, the Quran, the other scriptures and the Holy Prophet has been described as dhikr.


Some commentators hold that here dhikr refers to the previous scriptures and ahlul dhikr refers to the Jews and the Christians, but it is certainly a bad example of misinterpretation because even an ordinary teacher of Islamic ideology would not command a Muslim to refer to the Jewish and Christian scholars to remove his doubts, leave alone the all-wise Lord of the worlds. Dhikr means to be conscious of Allah and ahl refers to those who are always conscious of Allah as asserted in An Nur: 37. Also dhikr means the Quran or the Holy Prophet and ahl refers to the people identified with the Holy Prophet (i.e. the Ahlul-Bayt a.s.) and the Quran, thoroughly purified by Allah (Ahzab: 33) and are always with the Quran as per hadith al thaqalayn.

http://quran.al-islam.org/

ivoice247:

How am i supposed to know where the original untampered version of the bible is, I should be asking you? Afterall, none of the prophets and neither of the disciples (john, luke, matthew, peter etc) spoke english so you christians should be the one telling us how you can rely so much on the present day version of the bible without evening knowing the content of the original bible.

ivoice247:

Nope, its not my method of reasoning, its what the bible states. Jesus(as) said follow thy commandments to earn eternal life, Jesus(as) didn't say follow six nor did he say follow ten of the commandments, Jesus(as) just said, follow the commandments to earn eternal life. 
Why should anyone have to read in between the lines when the statement is as clear and unambiguous as it can get.
Yes, i know the answer is starring at me and also at you in the face; Jesus stated in the bible verses i quoted earlier  that to get eternal life you should follow thy commandments.

ivoice247:

Yes, to truly understand the quran you must understand a bit of arabic. All holy books were revealed to the prophets in the language they understood. The sabur(psalms), taurah(old testament), injeel (new testament) and quran were revealed to david, moses, jesus, and muhammed(saw) respectively according to the language they understood. (Or did any of the past prophets speak english?)
Many names or vocabulary used in the holy books cannot be translated in  any other language except for the ones they were revealed in. For example in the quran, one of many such names is Allah; this word cannot be translated to any other language that correctly explains its meaning except you understand the arabic word 'Allah"
Another easy example you can try yourself is to try and translate any of the parts of a Motor Vehicle into your mother tongue;- tyre, steering wheel, floodlights, wiper, caburator, fan belt etc. You see this is impossible except you use them as they are in English language; that's because the english people developed the car and therefore name the parts in their language which you must understand. Same applies for arabic language in understanding the quran

ivoice247:

It's referring to those christians that existed during the time of jesus(as) up until the time muhammed(saw) received revelation. The true believers are those that followed the teaching of Muhammed(saw) and left that of jesus(as) as soon as muhammed became a prophet, and any christian that didn't follow muhammed was a disbeliever. Same thing for the true believers amongst the jews are those that left the preaching of Moses(as) and followed the preaching of  Jesus(as) once jesus(as) received the spirit and became a prophet and any jew that didn't follow jesus was a disbeliever.
All the prophets are paternal brothers from the lineage of Abraham(ishmael and ishaq) all preaching the same message but in different languages. As allah states in quran;-

Say (O Muslims), "We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat [the offspring of the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and 'Îsa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)."
(  سورة البقرة  , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #136)

And when it is said to them, "Believe in what Allah has sent down," they say, "We believe in what was sent down to us." And they disbelieve in that which came after it, while it is the truth confirming what is with them. , , ,
(  سورة البقرة  , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #91)

ivoice247:

Okay let me quote from the bible and quran a preaching the christians do not follow today; The christians believe "Jesus is Lord" and "God is Lord", whereas Jesus stated that there's only one Lord God;-
King James bible (Mark 12:29);-  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Q19:36:- 'Îsa (jesus) said: "And verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him. That is the Straight Path.
(  سورة مريم  , Maryam, Chapter #19, Verse #36)

LagosShia:

do muslims believe there is anything as "original bible"?

the concept of a christian asking dishonestly [/b]a muslim to produce to him the "original bible" from which the present corrupted one came from is based on the christian supposition and the muslim misunderstanding that the injil and taurat mentioned in the Quran as revelations of Allah are in fact the bible.

that is not the case.the bible is no injil and it is not taurat.[b]the bible instead contains traces of the injil and traces of the taurat that can clearly be identified in the bible as inspired verses where God Almighty is speaking.aside,the vast bulk of the bible is from man and his copying and editing and adding and subtraction.

therefore,we are to honestly understand that the bible itself in the book form we find it today is a corrupt text that stands on its own with variety of sources.

when the Quran asks the jews and christians to judge by what was revealed to them,it is what Jesus and Moses taught that could be distinguished then as divine teachings and not based on what is confusedly bundled and compiled in the bible.

so Islam does not recognize the bible at all as a revelation.it is a compilation from different sources that contains identifiable traces of divine revelations.so the bible itself is a corruption of revelation by posing itself as an "inspired" book.

you can see the thread below started by an enemy of Allah,trying to claim appraisal for the bible in the Quran and the response i posted:

frosbel:

Is there   

But why is it dishonesty to ask for the original injil and taurat, since you say the one we have is corrupted ??

why is it such a coincidence that the only verses left in the bible are those that supposedly validate Muhammad 

It's obvious as previously discussed in Davidlyan's article on Plagiarism, that Muhammad copied or should we say stole stories and scripture from other religions , poets and fairy tales.

So where is the original 

So how can you know better about what was revealed to us , since Judaism and Christianity pre-dated ISLAM by centuries.

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."- John 8:44

So the same bible that is not authentic , is what Muhammad copied from and also is the same book that false teachers like Deedat used to painstakingly wrench out of context verses to help Muhammad  ??