The Fraud of Islam - Islam for Muslims (5) - Nairaland
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| Re: The Fraud of Islam by Nobody: 3:45pm On Jan 30, 2012 |
LagosShia: So why are you deluded Liar among others, using this same bible to plagiarise some content into the Quran and also using multiple verses to prove that Muhammad is a prophet  because they were not written [b]but orally transmitted.[/b]for instance we have no evidence that Jesus (as) ever wrote anything.we keep reading "gospel of matthew","gospel of Luke","gospel of Mark" and "gospel of John" and others too not included in the bible.but we have never seen "gospel of Jesus".why? Hmm. They were orally transmitted from who and to whom  Since it has been proven that Muhammad plagiarised the Quran , this lie does not stand up to the truth. It is not divine at all. this question you have asked me,is hanging yourself with it.you are the foolish one that should face the reality and tell us why.dont act funny or rather dumb here. Ah okay , so the corruption now is not about verses removed but about verses added , right So how are you sure my dear Shia Kaffur friend , that the verses added are not the ones that falsely prove that Muhammad is a prophet. But you said 'added and not removed' and yet you confused yourself further by saying "so only God knows how many more are not included " So which is it, added or removed ?? [b]i know you have heard of the "gospel of barnabas" [/b]and how clearly it prophesied the Prophet (sa).but you will reject that book because you think it was not "inspired" for it to be included in the bible.and now you can even claim that the muslims may have forged it.so you see that you bible is made from cherry-pick;on what you selected to be "inspired".so you are more inspired than your god! Of course I know about the gospel of Barnabas, Muhammad copied word for word from many stories in this so called gospel. And this book is nothing more than a concocted gnostic pile of fairy tales written by men who were not Christians. Tell me though , was the gospel of Barnabas part of the Injil, because if your answer is yes , that makes you a liar par excellence. and as obvious,the points and allegation made were refuted and those are claims christians cannot back with facts or evidence.furthermore,we saw quite on the contrary that it is the bible that contains plagiarism and fraud. hahaha , you are lost here [b]you are cursed [/b]that is why you will never see anything called "original".you have being cursed to follow forgeries. I am blessed in Christ Jesus. Christ came to deliver me from a curse and that curse came from SATAN . i dont claim to know better.i only go by facts.the bible is witness to my words.in it you will find verses claiming to have been spoken by God,some others by prophets,some others unknown,some others historian and so on.it is a cocktail of views. What facts , you mean , plagiarised facts |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by ivoice247: 6:06pm On Jan 30, 2012 |
tomzman:Yes, all those bibles are fake. Neither jesus(as), paul nor any of the disciples spoke english, so how can you rely on the english version. That's why the bible has plenty contradictions and errors. Have you forgotten that we are dealing with a story of 14 verses and not just a verse or statement?.Ok, if we decide to close our eyes to the other verses and pretend as if there is only one verse (verse 17) in that passage then, can you give me a list of 'thy (or the) commandments' that Jesus expects me to follow so as to earn eternal life.Yes, there's only one verse (verse 17) that's clear and unambiguous. Just follow the commandments in totality just like when jesus(as) said; "follow me" ; we then follow him in totality. The commandments are listed in the bk of deut 5:1-21 I can see you are confused.At first, it was 'You must understand arabic' now its 'you must understand a bit of arabic'.Pls stick to the topic and stop being petty; Understanding a bit of arabic still means u understand arabic You see, it is not the actual translation that matters but the in depth meaning or/and the message.If the translation is wrong, the meaning is wrong. The difference between "jesus is servant of God" and "jesus is son of God" is not in the depth of meaning but solely in the translation. A car produced in France comes with a French manual, a car produced in USA comes with an English manual, a car produced in Germany comes with a German manual etc. An illiterate Nigerian mechanic can easily repair those cars without needing to go to any school to learn a bit of those languages nor trying to translate the faulty part into the language he speaks.Really! then how does the yoruba mechanic identify the parts of a car if he doesn't understand english? All mechanics in nigeria know the parts of a car in english and not in their local language. Or do you know the names of these parts like radiator, carburator, tyre, battery, fan belt etc in yoruba, hausa or igbo language? of course NOT! He doesn't even need to see the manual of the car.The major thing is for him to know the function of the faulty part and how to fix it.of course the mechanic doesn't need to see the manual since he would have been taught by his master who would have read the manual and then passed the knowledge down to him. Just like many muslims or christians don't need to read the quran/bible to understand islam/christianity since their Imams/pastors would teach them I see you all have a problem with understanding the concept of Trinity.Well, I won't bother trying to explain to you, because just like Frosbel said somewhere, trying to reason out the deep truths of salvation with an unbeliever is like trying to reason out with a pig, the merits of cleanliness.@tomzman. do you truly believe in trinity? (Father is god, jesus is god, holy trinity is god) It cannot even be found in the bible. God sent about 124,000 prophets to this world at different times, yet none of the prophets nor their followers contorted trinity, not even in the old testament, except when it came to the time of jesus(as). Let me tell you the truth about Jesus(as) which the bible does not tell;- Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allah(God) is the Messiah (Jesus), son of maryam (Mary)." But the Messiah (Jesus) said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode . And for the Zalimun (polytheists) there are no helpers. ( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #72) The Messiah (Jesus), son of maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother (Mary) was a Siddiqah [i.e. she believed in the Words of Allah and His Books] . They both used to eat food (while Allah does not eat). Look how We make the Ayat (signs,) clear to them; yet look how they are deluded away (from the truth). ( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #75) And when Allah will say : "O 'Îsa (Jesus), son of maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right. Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden . ( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #116) |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by Nobody: 6:33pm On Jan 30, 2012 |
ivoice247: What a dumb statement. Translating from a language into another for easy understanding is such a sensible thing to do, that you make yourself sound silly by suggesting otherwise. Secondly , you guys seem to have lost all shame, you call a book corrupt, yet you plagiarise it, quote it more than the Quran and try to interpose Muhammad between it's contradictory verses Wonders will never end. Which is better, reading the scriptures in a language you understand or chanting in an unknown tongue that requires a huge library of books to explain their various and often contradictory meanings. If the translation is wrong, the meaning is wrong. The difference between "jesus is servant of God" and "jesus is son of God" is not in the depth of meaning but solely in the translation. Nope , if you were not a lazy student , you would have checked the original greek for the original meaning. Let me educate you a little. Son in reference to Jesus is written in Greek as : υἱός The meaning is - son , child or son of God, Jesus What is so difficult about this. @tomzman. do you truly believe in trinity? (Father is god, jesus is god, holy trinity is god) It cannot even be found in the bible. God sent about 124,000 prophets to this world at different times, yet none of the prophets nor their followers contorted trinity, not even in the old testament, except when it came to the time of jesus(as). Stop parotting what your Imams tell you. The Trinity is found in the bible, check it out for yourself. All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit - [Matthew 28:19]. May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all [2 Corinthians 13:14]. To God’s elect. . .who have been chosen according to the[b] foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ[/b] and sprinkling by his blood [1 Peter 1:1-2]. Also consider the following verses : And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17) "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19) Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30) "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9) "He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me." (John 12:45) If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Rom. 8:9) "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 1:20) |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by Nobody: 6:44pm On Jan 30, 2012 |
Let me tell you the truth about Jesus(as) which the bible does not tell;- Which is, that he started speaking as an infant and breathed life into a bird made of clay which is even more hilarious Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allah(God) is the Messiah (Jesus), son of maryam (Mary)." But the Messiah (Jesus) said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode . And for the Zalimun (polytheists) there are no helpers. First off, Mariam is not the Mother of Jesus according to the Quran, Mariam was the sister of Moses. Mary was the Mother of Jesus. Tell me is it not rather strange , that Muhammad was talking to the children of Israel who also do not concur with the trinity It was actually Muhammad who had partners, the daughters of allah, Christians believe in 1 God. The Messiah (Jesus), son of maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother (Mary) was a Siddiqah [i.e. she believed in the Words of Allah and His Books] . They both used to eat food (while Allah does not eat). Look how We make the Ayat (signs,) clear to them; yet look how they are deluded away (from the truth). ( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #75) He was an ordinary messenger , and yet he was taken up to heaven and did not taste death , he also performed numerous miracles as the Quran confirms , he also had no sin, and you dare to compare him to that false prophet Muhammad. |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by babs787(m): 7:26pm On Jan 30, 2012 |
@Frosbel Secondly , you guys seem to have lost all shame, you call a book corrupt, yet you plagiarise it, quote it more than the Quran and try to interpose Muhammad between it's contradictory verses Could you please supply me here the part that is plagiarised? Quote Sir, Baptizing them in the name of the father, and of the Son and of the Holy spirit does not in ANY way signifies TRINITY. I would need where Jesus preaches TRINITY please or says God, So and Holy Spirit are one. May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all [2 Corinthians 13:14]. This is not Jesus talking but hearsay addressed to the corinthians. Kindly supply where Jesus preached same. To God’s elect. . .who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood [1 Peter 1:1-2]. This is also not Jesus' preaching but third party. Also consider the following verses : This is still not Jesus "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19) Baptizing them in the name of the father, son and Holy spirit is different from TRINITARIAN BELIEF. Jesus did not preach trinity please and even preached against it likewise those before him. Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30) Maybe we need to cull this out as different topic to be discussed but still did not talk on TRINITY. Christians all over believe that this statement means that they are one but forgot that Jesus speaks in parables. "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9) Did not talk of TRINITY dude "He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me." (John 12:45) Confusion is here. 'The one who sent me"  Jesus sent himself!!!If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Rom. 8:9) "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 1:20) Holy spirit's son or what are you insuniating? Please signify being my guest if you are ready to thrash the listed verses by you ONE at a time. Most of the verses you posted here are not direct saying of Jesus but mostly by Paul, the founder of Pauline Christianity in which you so much follow. I f you have been reading your bible, you would see that Paul go against Jesus' teaching in so many ways and Jesus never heard of TRINITY nr preached same |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by tidytim: 8:22pm On Jan 30, 2012 |
babs787: The following 2 plagiarised stories , courtesy of James M. Arlandson 1. Jesus turns a clay bird into a real one in Suras 3:49 and 5:110. As proof of Jesus’ miraculous start, Muhammad says that Jesus will make a clay bird fly. The Quran says in Sura 3:49 that Jesus predicts that he will turn a clay bird into a real one: 3:49 [Then Jesus says to the children of Israel:] "I will make a bird for you out of clay, then breathe into it and, with God’s permission, it will become a real bird" . . . (Haleem) The Quran says in Sura 5:110 that Jesus has done the trick: . . . By My leave, you [Jesus] fashioned the shape of a bird out of clay, breathed into it, and it became, by My leave, a bird . . . (Haleem) Where does Muhammad get the fiction about Jesus turning a clay bird into a living one? The ultimate source is found in the[b] Infancy Gospel of Thomas[/b]. The apocryphal gospel says: [Jesus] made soft clay and modeled twelve sparrows from it . . . 4. Jesus clapped his hands and cried to the sparrows, "Be gone." And the sparrows flew off chirping. (The New Testament Apocrypha, vol. 1, p. 444) 2 . Mary receives two pseudo-miracles in Sura 19:23-26. Sura 19 is named after Mary. According to Sura 19:16-26, Mary traveled to the east and secluded herself. An angel came and promised her a son. She conceived miraculously, and during the pains of childbirth she cries out. The Quran says: 19:23 . . . [A]nd, when the pain of childbirth drove her to cling to the trunk of the palm tree, she exclaimed, "I wish I had been long dead and forgotten before all this!" 24 but a voice cried to her from below, "Do not worry: your Lord has provided a stream at your feet 25 and, if you shake the trunk of the palm tree towards you, it will deliver fresh ripe dates for you, 26 so eat, drink, be glad . . . (Haleem) This story of miraculous deliverance through a palm tree and a stream of water comes from the Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew, or more accurately, The Book About the Origin of the Blessed Mary and the Childhood of the Savior. Muhammad alters a passage in this pseudo-gospel, or he heard an altered version of it (or both). He connects the miracle of the palm and the stream to Mary giving birth to Jesus, but the non-canonical gospel says that the baby Jesus worked the miracle. Joseph and Mary are concerned about food and water as they travel to Egypt. The infant Jesus overhears their conversation and solves their problem. The apocryphal gospel says: Then the child Jesus, who was sitting with a happy countenance in his mother’s lap, said to the palm: "Bend down your branches, O tree, and refresh my mother with your fruit." And immediately at this command [voice] the palm bent down to the feet of the blessed Mary, and they gathered from its fruit and they all refreshed themselves . . . [Addressing the palm, Jesus says:] "And open beneath your roots a vein of water . . . and let the waters flow" . . . And when they saw the fountain of water, they greatly rejoiced and quenched their thirst . . . (The New Testament Apocrypha, vol. 1, p. 463) Though the details differ, the broad outline of the pseudo-gospel and the Quran match up well. First, both the Quran and the pseudo-gospel share the same context: a nativity and infancy narrative—the beginning of the Messiah’s life. Second, the Quran has Mary traveling; in the pseudo-gospel Mary (and Joseph and Jesus) also travel. This travel for a teenage girl, all alone, is highly unlikely in this culture, so the Quran is creating a fiction not found in the fictional gospel. Third, the Quran says that Mary heard a voice or command; the pseudo-gospel adds that the voice or command belonged to baby Jesus. Fourth, the apocryphal gospel says that a palm tree provided food from above, and a stream of water provided refreshment from below; the Quran says the same. Finally, both books recount this fiction as a miracle, when Mary (and Joseph) needed it most. Clearly, Muhammad did not learn this fiction from a manuscript in front of him. He was not a scholar, after all. But some borrowing is undeniable—for objective readers and seekers. Muhammad is losing his epistemological challenge that we should believe his revelations no matter what, and whether he was there on the scene or not. The evidence suggests that he did not get his information from Allah, but from human sources. If Muhammad is so far off about the infancy of Jesus, should we, as reasonable persons whose minds have not been clouded by a lifetime of devotion to Islam, listen to Muhammad’s denial of the Sonship of Jesus? For more information on this fictional source in the Quran, go to this chapter written by highly qualified Islamologist William St. Clair-Tisdall of an earlier generation, who knew Islam and Arabic thoroughly. He provides details that demonstrate that the ultimate source of this Quranic fiction is Buddhist (scroll down to "Story of the Virgin Mary"  . By the seventh century, Buddhism had impacted Persia and other points farther west.Finally, according to the Quran, Mary returned to her people, who saw that she was carrying a child in her arms. They were shocked and asked what she had done, calling her the sister of Aaron, another Quranic confusion, since Aaron lived about 1,400 years before Mary. But why does this matter? Revelation trumps clear and simple facts in the mind of traditional, Quran-believing Muslims. |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by tidytim: 8:48pm On Jan 30, 2012 |
Sir, Baptizing them in the name of the father, and of the Son and of the Holy spirit does not in ANY way signifies TRINITY. I would need where Jesus preaches TRINITY please or says God, So and Holy Spirit are one. Lol. Let me help FROSBEL here But these were the very words of Jesus , making a distinction between , the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. What do you mean by preaching it This is not Jesus talking but hearsay addressed to the corinthians. Kindly supply where Jesus preached same. You Muslims love to twist logic This was not hearsay but a blessing from brother Paul to the church at Corinth , clearly depicting that the earliest church also held this concept. This is also not Jesus' preaching but third party. The SON John 1:49-50, "Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel." 50 Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You shall see greater things than these." Nathaniel calls Jesus the son of God and Jesus does not correct him. Jesus affirms Nathaniel's belief. John 10:36-37, "do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming," because I said, 'I am the Son of God?' 37 "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me." Jesus is affirming that he is the son of God. John 11:4, "But when Jesus heard it, He said, "This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified by it." Jesus calls himself the Son of God. John 19:7, "The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God." The Jews understood that to claim to be the son of God was to claimed to be equal with God - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God," (John 5:18, NASB) John 20:31, "but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name." THE FATHER Father John 20:17 (ESV) - "Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ” Jn.10:30: " I and my father are one" Matthew 11:27 - "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him HOLY SPIRIT "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you".- John 14:26 "Then Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan River. He was led by the Spirit in the wilderness "- Luke 4:1 "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." - Acts 1:8 How did almighty God the Father refer to Christ Jesus his SON "For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son,today I have begotten you”? Or again,“I will be to him a father,and he shall be to me a son”? And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds,and his ministers a flame of fire.” But of the Son he says,“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed youwith the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain;they will all wear out like a garment, like a robe you will roll them up,like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same,and your years will have no end.” And to which of the angels has he ever said, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”? (Hebrews 1:5-13 ESV) |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by tidytim: 8:58pm On Jan 30, 2012 |
How did almight God the Fathe refer to Christ Jesus his SON "For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son,today I have begotten you”? Or again,“I will be to him a father,and he shall be to me a son”? And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds,and his ministers a flame of fire.” But of the Son he says,“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed youwith the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain;they will all wear out like a garment, like a robe you will roll them up,like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same,and your years will have no end.” And to which of the angels has he ever said, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”? (Hebrews 1:5-13 ESV) |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by Judek2(m): 6:48am On Jan 31, 2012 |
If any Muslim can tell me who this old prophesies were talking about,then they can prove that Jesus is not God. Or maybe say that Christians has fabricated and corrupted the old tastaments, Or that the Prophets were under dellusion. [psalm 2:7,12] I will declare a decree: the LORD said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 12) Kiss the Son, lest he be angry,and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little.Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. [Isaiah 7:14]Therefore the Lord shall give you a sign;Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son,and shall call his name IMMANUEL. IMMANUEL means GOD WITH US. And vs 15,speaks for those who accuse that God cannot eat. .[15] Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil and choose the good. Because he was born "According to the flesh",to dwell with his people on earth. He must exhibit some human nature. Remember,God is Spirit,but the Gospel told us that "THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH,AND DWELTH AMONG US". So anybody who argues that Jesus as God wont exhibit human nature is just being foolish. [Isaiah 40:3] The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the wilderness a highway for our GOD. [Psalm 110:1] The LORD said to my Lord, sit thou at my right hand untill I make thy enemies thy footstool. (4) The LORD at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. [psalm 45:6,7] Thy Throne O God, is forever and ever: the skepter of thy kingdom is a right scepter. (7) Thou lovest righteousness,and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God hath hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by Nobody: 10:20am On Jan 31, 2012 |
^^^ Wait for more copy and paste. You have to understand, that unlike the bible, where you can quickly search for answers and respond to questions, the Quran is written in Arabic, these guys cramm this stuff from their childhood without understanding a single word, so they need their imams, so called scholars and a world size library to explain even the smallest questions/comments with regards to their faith. God will open their eyes, many will leave and embrace Jesus who came to die for their sins and make an atonement for their souls with his blood. Yes the blood of Jesus washes away all sin. Better the blood of one man shed for mankind, than a religion which promotes peace , so called , and yet sheds the blood of countless millions . |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by LagosShia: 12:16pm On Jan 31, 2012 |
frosbel: frosbel aside from that the christian beliefs you hold are irrational and you are foolish yourself with them and wasting you time,you are also a very dishonest person. talking about copy/paste,more than 50% of the threads you create are based on articles you copy and paste.have you ever taken the initiative to start a thread with your own words without copying articles from christian missionary websites verbatim? |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by LagosShia: 12:23pm On Jan 31, 2012 |
Judek2:why are you quoting jewish text and interpreting them to mean Jesus (as)? mind you you are doing the same on jewish text as you would freak out when muslims open your eyes to direct you on prophesies in the bible on Muhammad (sa). Jacob too is described in the bible as God's "begotten son"."son of God" is figurative in jewish beliefs and tradition.even in the new testament we are told: "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God".(Roman 8:14) see more: "Can God Have A Son?" https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-811919.0.html wrong translation.the word translated as "virgin" is "alma".that word means a "young lady".
do you know you and i are also the "word of God" turned into flesh? those verse are all ironically found in the old testament and jews dont believe in Jesus (as) at all. i really see no meaning or case in putting them forth.Muslims dont deny Jesus (as) was a prophet. as for the verse you put forth,are you saying God Almighty eats food? i thought in the bible we are told God is not man? |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by komole: 5:50pm On Jan 31, 2012 |
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| Re: The Fraud of Islam by ivoice247: 6:02pm On Jan 31, 2012 |
frosbel:Translating to another language is only better if you have access to the original language. That's why there are so many different versions of the bible all riddled with contradictions and omission. See some below;- WHO BEARS GUILT? GAL 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. GAL 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden. DO YOU ANSWER A FOOL PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. HOW MANY CHILDREN DID MICHAL, THE DAUGHTER OF SAUL, HAVE 2SA 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death. 2SA 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite: WHEN WAS THE LEPER HEALED Matthew 8:13 & 8:14 Jesus healed the leper before visiting the house. Mark 1:29-30 & 1:40-42 Jesus healed the leper after visiting Simon Peter’s house WHAT ANIMALS WERE BROUGHT TO JESUS(AS) Matthew 21:2-7 two of the disciples brought Jesus an ass and a colt from the village of Bethphage. Mark 11:2-7 They brought him only a colt. Nope , if you were not a lazy student , you would have checked the original greek for the original meaning. Try again! this time do not use google translator, http://translate.google.com/ Stop parotting what your Imams tell you.REALLY! IS THIS TRINITY, WHERE DOES THE ABOVE VERSES STATE GOD THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT ARE ONE? I'LL PROVE TO YOU THAT JESUS AND GOD ARE TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES. BECAUSE THE BIBLE IS FULL OF VERSES CONTRADICTING ITSELF, I'LL COUNTER YOU WITH VERSES FROM YOUR SAME BIBLE BELOW;- John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak John 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. Also consider the following verses :THIS DOESN'T MEAN "ONE" IN THE PHYSICAL SENSE BUT "ONE" IN THE IDEOLOGICAL SENSE, AS THE SAME BIBLE STATES IN THE SAME BOOK OF JOHN THAT ALL THE DISCIPLES SHOULD BE "ONE" TOO;- (New Living Translation Bible) John 17:21 I(jesus) pray that they will all be one, just as you(Father) and I are one "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9)HERE AGAIN, YOU CANNOT TAKE THIS VERSE TO MEAN GOD AND JESUS ARE ONE. BECAUSE YOUR SAME BIBLE STATES NO ONE HAS SEEN GOD, NOR DOES GOD LIVE IN MAN-MADE BUILDINGS;- Acts 7:48 "However, the Most High does not live in houses made by men 1John 4:12 No one has ever seen God "He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me." (John 12:45)STILL, WHAT'S YOUR POINT IN THESE VERSES ABOVE, THEY STILL DO NOT PROVE THAT JESUS AND GOD ARE ONE. HERE ARE MORE VERSES TO PROVE THAT JESUS AND GOD ARE NOT EQUAL BUT RATHER JESUS WAS KNOWN TO BE A SERVANT;- Matthew 19:17 "Why ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good Matthew 21:18-19 In the morning, as Jesus was returning to Jerusalem, he was hungry, and he noticed a fig tree beside the road. He went over to see if there were any figs, but there were only leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" And immediately the fig tree withered up. Mark 13:32 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father New King James Version Acts 3:26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning every one of you away from his iniquities. New International Version Bible Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus And the Qural states in Suratul al-Nisai ch4 v171; O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh ) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is One Ilah (God), glory be to Him above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs. |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by Nobody: 8:20pm On Jan 31, 2012 |
ivoice247: First question ,do you have access to the original language of the Quran, if yes, please direct me to where I can find it. Secondly , there are different english grammar translations but in context they mean the same thing. Let's compare the NIV and NLT version on the verses you quoted. Galatians 6:2 (NIV) - Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. Galatians 6:2 (NLT) - Share each other’s burdens, and in this way obey the law of Christ. The NIV was translated word for word with the original greek, whereas the NLT was translated using what we call paraphrase. Paraphrase is taking from a translation, usually The King James Bible, and putting it into the local vernacular for better understanding. Normally I prefer word for word translations like the KJV or NIV because they are direct from the original hebrew and greek , but I also use the paraphrase versions for an easy read . But in essense they both mean the thing. WHO BEARS GUILT? Gal 6:5 uses the word burden translated from the Greek φορτίον [/b]which stands for [b]phortion and means 'each believers personal work of which he is responsible to Christ.' Permit me to use the word our personal responsibility. Gal 6:2 uses the word burdens [/b]which translated from the Greek [b]βάρος [/b]which stands for [b]baros and means , heaviness, weight, trouble. Normally heavy crushing weights. DO YOU ANSWER A FOOL This one is easily explained since they both use the same word fool [/b]which in Hebrew is called [b]כְּסִיל [/b]and means fool, silly fellow, dullard, simpleton, arrogant one. In other words [b]vs4, means do not bring yourself to the level of a FOOL otherwise you will also look foolish. vs5 means , we can ocassionaly tell off a foolish person , probably when his foolishnes is tending toward his destruction or in a sensitive situation where facts are misrepresented, you rebuke him so that he realises he is foolish and if he has any sense, he might change his ways.
This is almost getting hilarious In your haste to point out mistakes you missed out the part " and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite " In other words she brought up these children for Adriel. But who was Adriel ? A quick search brings up the following verse : 1 Samuel :19 "So when the time came for Merab, Saul’s daughter, to be given to David, she was given in marriage to Adriel of Meholah. " There you have it, she looked after her sisters sons, probably because Merab had died, I am not sure. WHEN WAS THE LEPER HEALED How utterly dishonest you are , In Matthew 8:13-14 , no leper was healed. You or your imam deliberately left out the preceding verses. A Roman officer came begging Jesus , to come to his house and heal his servant who was ill and paralysed, read further : " When Jesus returned to Capernaum, a Roman officer[b] came and pleaded with him, 6 “Lord, my young servant[c] lies in bed, paralyzed and in terrible pain.” Jesus said, “I will come and heal him.” But the officer said, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come into my home. Just say the word from where you are, and my servant will be healed. 9 I know this because I am under the authority of my superior officers, and I have authority over my soldiers. I only need to say, ‘Go,’ and they go, or ‘Come,’ and they come. And if I say to my slaves, ‘Do this,’ they do it.” - Matthew 8:5-8 What did Jesus do, now let's quote your verse in the proper context. "Then Jesus said to the Roman officer, “Go back home. Because you believed, it has happened.” And the young servant was healed that same hour. When Jesus arrived at Peter’s house, Peter’s mother-in-law was sick in bed with a high fever. " - Matthew 8:13-14 So here we have Jesus going to Peter's house after the episode with the Roman officer , not the leper. Now is time to bring in Mark1:29-30 "As soon as they left the synagogue, they went with James and John to the home of Simon and Andrew. Simon’s mother-in-law was in bed with a fever, and they immediately told Jesus about her. " - Mark 1:29-30 Note here , no leper had been healed prior to visiting Peter's house. Finally we address the healing of the leper in Mark1:40-42 " A man with leprosy[h] came to him and begged him on his knees, “If you are willing, you can make me clean.” Jesus was indignant.[i] He reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cleansed. " - Mark 1:40-42 So both passages of scripture add up , the Leper was healed after Jesus Christ left Peter's house , not before. WHAT ANIMALS WERE BROUGHT TO JESUS(AS) Easy, Jesus Christ rode on a Donkey's colt to Jerusalem. Mark missed out the fact that there was also a Donkey present, probably used to carry their belongings. Remember that while these gospels corroborate each other on most events, there are also few events which were recorded in one and not the other. These men were not sitting down together in one room, at the same time, writing these gospels you know Reminds me of Jesus's rebuke to the Pharisees which goes like this : "Blind guides! You strain your water so you won't accidentally swallow a gnat, but you swallow a camel!" - Matthew 23:24 Think about it
Nope, I use the strongs concordance that defines the Greek and Hebrew words. |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by Nobody: 9:03pm On Jan 31, 2012 |
REALLY! IS THIS TRINITY, WHERE DOES THE ABOVE VERSES STATE GOD THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT ARE ONE? I'LL PROVE TO YOU THAT JESUS AND GOD ARE TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES. BECAUSE THE BIBLE IS FULL OF VERSES CONTRADICTING ITSELF, I'LL COUNTER YOU WITH VERSES FROM YOUR SAME BIBLE BELOW;- As usual you skipped my earlier quoted verses and rambled on with the above. But I have some time to help you "Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Clearly Jesus mentioned here that he existed from the beginning and used the same name that God used in Exodus " I AM". "Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. This is Christ Jesus clearly stated his divinity. But here is why , Jesus often referred to God as father , keep in mind , he came as a man, to die for our sins , in a great display of humility and love. "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[b] was put off when you were circumcised by[c] Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. " - Colossians 2:9-12 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Jesus came as a man but was fully GOD in the flesh. In the flesh he humbled himself as man for the purpose of atoning for our sins. Just to close here, this is what the Holy Spirit said concerning Christ in the book of the prophet isaiah : Isaiah 9:6 - King James Version (KJV) - "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." It is clear with these passages that not only did Jesus claim to be God , the inspired words of the bible also support this fact irrefutably. |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by Nobody: 9:12pm On Jan 31, 2012 |
And the Qural states in Suratul al-Nisai ch4 v171; Considering the explanations I have provided with biblical proof about the divinity of Christ, the above verse means zilch , especially since Muhamamd was referring to Mary as the sister of Moses, when in fact Mary , this one who gave birth to Christ came into existence centuries from the time of Moses. I expect you to go back to www to look for more contradictory verses in your own opinion, let me say quickly , I aint got no time for endless circular arguements  You need the Spirit of God to comprehend the things of God, I have only tried to help you out of kindness. Without the Spirit, you will always reach a dead end when studying the bible. "who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." - 2 Corinthians 3:6 |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by ivoice247: 9:25pm On Jan 31, 2012 |
frosbel:If God can breathe life into Adam whom He created from dust according to the bible (Genesis 2:7), then why can't jesus(as) whom you claim is God the Son or Son of God. First off, Mariam is not the Mother of Jesus according to the Quran, Mariam was the sister of Moses. Mary was the Mother of Jesus.According to the quran, maryam was the mother of Jesus(as), and below are many verses to proof it:- Q2v87;- And We gave 'Îsa (Jesus), the son of maryam, Q2v253;- and to 'Îsa (Jesus), the son of maryam, We gave clear proofs and evidence, Q4v159;- but must believe in him (Jesus), son of maryam (Mary), as only a Messenger of Allah Q5v46;- And in their footsteps, We sent 'Îsa (Jesus), son of maryam (Mary), confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel) Tell me is it not rather strange , that Muhammad was talking to the children of Israel who also do not concur with the trinityProphet Muhammed(saw) preached to all of mankind both believers, non-believers, trinitarian and non-trinitarians, as allah stated in the quran;- Q2v143;- Thus We have made you [muslims], a just nation, that you be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger (Muhammad) be a witness over you It was actually Muhammad who had partners, the daughters of allah, Christians believe in 1 God.That is not possible as the quran revealed by prophet muhammed(saw) stated it clearly that no one should ascribe partners to allah Q3v64;- Say (O Muhammad): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allah , and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allah . Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims." He was an ordinary messenger , and yet he was taken up to heaven and did not taste death , he also performed numerous miracles as the Quran confirms , he also had no sin, and you dare to compare him to that false prophet Muhammad.The quran states that Jesus was "no more than" a messenger just like all other messengers Allah sent to the people. All messengers ( ibrahim, lut, moses, jesus, muhammed) are all equal in the sight of allah and they all preached islam. Q3v84;- Say (O Muhammad) "We believe in Allah and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob) and Al-Asbat [the offspring of the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)] and what was given to Musa (Moses), 'Îsa (Jesus) and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one another among them and to Him (Allah) we have submitted ." Q19v30;- "He (jesus) said: "Verily I am a slave of Allah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet; " Q5v116:- And when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right . Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden Finally, all the miracles jesus(as) performed was by the power of God. And many other messengers too performed miracles by the power of God alone, as the quran states in suratul al-imran ch3v49;- And will make him (Jesus) a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, a figure like that of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allah's Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe. |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by ivoice247: 9:31pm On Jan 31, 2012 |
frosbel:RELAX, THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF ISLAM. ALL ANSWERS ARE IN THE QURAN AND SUNNAH (HADITH) OF THE PROPHET. THIS SAME QUESTION WAS POSED DURING THE TIME OF THE PROPHET AND HE REPLIED. According to Sahih Muslim, the hadith related by Mughirah ibn Shu`bah [5326];- When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read "O sister of Harun" (i.e. Maryam) in the Qur'an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah's Messenger(P) I asked him about that, whereupon he(prophet muhammed) said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostle and pious persons who had gone before them. You see, there were two people named harun in the quran, first one was the brother of Moses who was a prophet and the second one was the brother of Mary who was not a prophet but named after a prophet because muslims name their children after pious people, prophets or attibutes of allah. Even till today in Nigeria and all other muslim countries we still name our children after prophets e.g. isa(jesus), musa(moses) muhammed, haruna(harun) etc SECONDLY, I'LL BACK IT UP FROM THE QURAN AS WELL BECAUSE IN ISLAM UNLIKE CHRISTIANITY WE DO NOT CONJECTURE OR SPECULATE BUT RATHER THE QURAN EXPLAINS TO US IF YOU TAKE TIME TO READ IT WELL You see according to Q3v35-36; the wife of Imran gave birth to Mary , When the wife of Imran said, 'Lord, I have vowed to Thee, in dedication, what is within my womb. Receive Thou this from me; Thou hearest, and knowest.' And when she gave birth to her she said, 'Lord, I have given birth to her, a female.' (And God knew very well what she had given birth to; the male is not as the female.) 'And I have named her Mary, and commend her to Thee with her seed, to protect them from the accursed Satan.' And again, according to Q66v12; its this same Mary, who was given birth to by wife of Imran that also conceived the holy spirit;- And Mary, Imran's daughter, who guarded her virginity, so We breathed into her of Our Spirit, and she confirmed the Words of her Lord and His Books, and became one of the obedient. IT'S REALLY THAT SIMPLE! READ THE QURAN |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by Nobody: 10:08pm On Jan 31, 2012 |
ivoice247: There is nothing beautiful about ISLAM my dear friend. All the answers are in the Quran, yet you need Hadiths, various texts and a world full of books , just to explain the smallest and simplest concepts !! I have a Quran by the way . Please explain this for me : Quran mentioned (Quran: 19:28, 66:12, 3:35) Mary (Mother of Jesus) as the sister of Aaron and Moses and the daughter of Imran. This is a grave error of the history. Virgin Mary the mother of Jesus had no brother named Aaron and Mary born almost 1500 hundreds years after the Moses and Aaron was born. Thanks |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by brentkruge: 10:29pm On Jan 31, 2012 |
The hadith of Tabari and Bukhari are very revealing on the authenticity or otherwise of the Muhammed's prophethood. Here are a few out of hundreds Dubious rituals Tabari VII:26 "When the Prophet came to Yathrib he saw the Jews fasting on Ashura day. He questioned them, and they told him that it was the day upon which God drowned Pharaoh and saved Moses from the Egyptians. He said, 'We have a better right to Moses than you do.' He fasted and ordered his fellow Muslims to fast with him. When the fast of Ramadhan was prescribed, he made Ashura optional." Dubious wars that were for booty Bukhari:V5B59N360 "The total number of Muslim fighters from Mecca who fought at Badr and were given a share of the booty, were 81. When their shares were distributed, their number was 101. But Allah knows it better." Tabari VII:65 "Allah’s Messenger came back to Medina, bringing with him the booty which had been taken from the polytheists, There were forty-four captives in the Messenger of Allah’s possession. There was a similar number of dead." Merciless, cold blooded Ishaq:308 "Muhammad halted on a sandhill and divided the booty Allah had given him equally. Then Muslims from Medina met him at Rauha. They congratulated him on the victory Allah had granted. But one of the warriors replied, 'What are you congratulating us about? We only met some bald old women like the sacrificial camels who are hobbled, and we slaughtered them.' The Apostle smiled because he knew that description fit ." "When the Apostle was in Safra, Nadr was assassinated. When Muhammad reached Irq al-Zabyah he killed Uqbah. When the Holy Prophet ordered him to be killed, Uqbah said, 'Who will look after my children, Muhammad.' "Hellfire.' the Apostle replied, and he was killed." Kidnapping for Ransom Ishaq:309 "'Bind Abu Aziz tight for his mother is rich and she may ransom him for a great deal of money,'" Tabari VII:71/Ishaq:311 "Among the captives was Abu Wada. Muhammad said, 'He has a son who is a shrewd merchant with much money." The son "slipped away at night, went to Medina, ransomed his father for 4,000 dirhams." Ishaq:313 "The Muslims told Abu Sufyan to pay them a ransom to free his son, Amr. He replied, 'Am I to suffer the double loss of my blood and my money? After you have killed my son Hanzala, you want me to pay you a ransom to save Amr?'" Tabari VII:71/Ishaq:312 "The Prophet said, 'Abbas, you must ransom yourself, your two nephews, Aqil and Nawfal, and your confederate, Utbah, for you are a wealthy man.' 'Muhammad.' Abbas said, 'I was a Muslim, but the people compelled me to fight against my will.' Allah knows best concerning your Islam.' Muhammad said. 'If what you say is true, Allah will reward you for it. As for your outward appearance, you have been against us, so pay to ransom yourself.' The Messenger had previously taken twenty ounces of gold from him following the battle. So Abbas said, 'Credit me with this amount towards my ransom.' 'No.' Muhammad replied. 'That money Allah has already taken from you and given to us.'" I expect some apologetic to disown these accounts and start insults. But its there, recorded. Its impossible to defend these actions. |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by Nobody: 12:02am On Feb 01, 2012 |
brentkruge: Hmmm Merciless, cold blooded "When the Apostle was in Safra, Nadr was assassinated. When Muhammad reached Irq al-Zabyah he killed Uqbah. When the Holy Prophet ordered him to be killed, Uqbah said, 'Who will look after my children, Muhammad.' [b]"Hellfire.' [/b]the Apostle replied, and he was killed." What a merciful thing to say, so beautiful to hear. |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by Sweetnecta: 10:57am On Feb 01, 2012 |
@Frosbel: « #147 on: Yesterday at 10:08:01 PM » [Quote]Quote from: ivoice247 on Yesterday at 09:31:27 PM RELAX, THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF ISLAM. ALL ANSWERS ARE IN THE QURAN AND SUNNAH (HADITH) OF THE PROPHET. THIS SAME QUESTION WAS POSED DURING THE TIME OF THE PROPHET AND HE REPLIED. There is nothing beautiful about ISLAM my dear friend.[/Quote]Everything about Islam is beautiful and fresh and latest. As an illustration, I met a pastor last thursday. He is from west africa. I saw him on skype video, he looked old that i was thinking this man must be at least 10 years older than me. Somehow we spoke about life and I when I told him my age, he said he is around that age. I was shocked. But then I remember the benefit of Wudhu water on the skin. [Quote]All the answers are in the Quran, yet you need Hadiths, various texts and a world full of books , just to explain the smallest and simplest concepts !! Grin Grin[/Quote]All the answer were in your college textbooks, yet you needed your UI professors to lecture you, then you may need tutorial especially in the lab, but then you form study groups. Frosbel, how far? [Quote]I have a Quran by the way . Please explain this for me : Quote Quran mentioned (Quran: 19:28, 66:12, 3:35) Mary (Mother of Jesus) as the sister of Aaron and Moses and the daughter of Imran. This is a grave error of the history. Virgin Mary the mother of Jesus had no brother named Aaron and Mary born almost 1500 hundreds years after the Moses and Aaron was born. Thanks [/Quote]All children of Isreal are sons and daughters of Jacob, sons and daughters of Isaac, sons and daughters of Abraham. Read your Bibles and see how the jews referred themselves in relationship to Abraham in their dialogue with Jesus. Are the sons and daughters of Abraham not brothers and sisters? In fact Sister of Harun and daughter of Imran have shorter generational length than sisters of Isaac and daughters of Abraham. And it reflects prejudice if you permit Jesus son of David, yet question his mother being daughter of Imran!. Oh. All Igbos are brothers and sisters even to the first born or first generation born of the children of the original father of the igbo people. All igbo people in the past, now and in the future are sons and daughters to the father of igbo people. |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by Judek2(m): 10:57am On Feb 01, 2012 |
LagosShia: The Jewish text of the Old tastaments formed the base for fulfillments in the new tastaments. The old tastaments contains many prophesies of an expected saviour which were fulfilled fully in the new tastaments. Some Jews believed,while some didnt believe so stop this act of Jewish texp copying. The Old tastament is also profitable to Christians.
Why must you lie to prove your claim? The word "Begotten" in Greek means "monogenes" which its primary definitions as "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship." This is the meaning attached to its use in Hebrews 11:17 when the writer refers to Isaac as Abraham's "only begotten son." Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant.
In Jewish times, the term Virgin is not widely used. Any lady reffered to as alma is supposed to be single and still untouched. If any YOUNG LADY had been found pregnant, she would squarely face the Law. So when attributing the word to Mary, it simply means that she is not yet married and pure, so in English, she is a virgin.
Lie,and a blantant lie. We are the products of the Word,not the word its self. Through the word, we were made. Small time,you will claim that we are the breath of God too.
Funny. Were they found in the old tastaments as just a random ranting by deranged men or a prophesy by Prophets which are meant to be fulfilled? Christianity is not Judaism. Many Jews are Christians,because the believed the prophesies has been fulfilled. The appostles and many early Christians were Jews,but they dont practise judaism.
You deny the Prophesies of him,and denies his divinity. Surely, you have denied the Jesus that existed thousand years in record and accepted Isa which did not exist but was conjoured by a man for some foolish reason.
Lagoshia, pleas stop derailing the discussion. If you are knowledgable enough, please provide me with the person refered to in those verses I provided. If you fail,then you have to keep mute if I provide you with mine. Those verses are clearly talking about somebody. Its clearly Prophesies by renowned old Prophets,and any religious man must look forward to its fulfillments. I simply want you to prove to me THE PERSON WHETHER RECORDED IN HISTORY,OR ANY RELIGIOUS BOOKS,OR ANY NOTED TEXT. Who those verses is talking about. |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by LagosShia: 2:50pm On Feb 01, 2012 |
Judek2:John 1:11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. in the case of Jesus when christians refer to him as "begotten" it means "not made".it sends a literal meaning of father-son relationship like the one between you and your own biological father where your own father got you without himself making or creating you!. there is two issues in this.first there are others who were referred to as "begotten son".now you are defining the extent or type of what "begotten" means. David: Psalms 2:7 says “The Lord has said to me, you are my son, today I have begotten you". the second problem is the fact that in the new testament manuscripts Jesus is not referred to at all as "begotten".the word "begotten" is not found there.in the revised standard version of the bible,bible scholars have decided to drop the word "begotten" because according to them "begotten" is an interpolation. am i lying? here is a very good explanation on the word "monogenes" and its translation from greek:
i think we've gone through this issue of who is the first born of Abraham.at no time can Isaac (as) be considered as Abraham's (as) "only begotten son" because Ishmael is older.we've gone through this before: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-819003.0.html i as a muslim have nothing against the word translated as "virgin" because my Quran tells me Mary (as) was virgin and she conceived miraculously.however,it is fair to call a spade a spade.if the word is "young lady",then translate it as "young lady".you dont have to use "virgin".i am sure there is a word for "virgin" in hebrew. through Adam (as) we are the breath of God.the life in us is God's breath. as for the word,are you telling God created us through Jesus (as)? if that is the case,then with what word or instruction did God made Jesus to allegedly resurrect when Jesus who you say is the word himself was dead?the word in christian belief was dead.so was God rendered handicapped to make an instruction of "be"? let me cut it short and tell you what i have always said in one sentence:"Jesus is the word of God (even in Islam figuratively).but the word of God is not Jesus". a jew who believes in christianity is no longer a jew.i am only telling you what the verse in John 1:11 says.Jesus came to the jews and they rejected him with all the many prophesies christians point to in jewish scripture.in jewish teachins,they did not expect a messiah who would be a "god" or a "demi-god" as christians believe. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-847520.0.html i can confidently tell you that i have nothing against you interpreting those verses rightly or wrongly to refer to Jesus (as).but there is no where in those verses that says Jesus (as) will be A "GOD". |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by tomzman: 3:07pm On Feb 01, 2012 |
ivoice247:You have still not proven your point.I need straight-forward and convincing proof that my Bible is fake or at least where I can get the 'untampered with' Bible from or do you also want to tow the line of LagosShia?. If you keep engaging in cyclical statements with no proof, you will be ignored. ivoice247:Sorry, I am not blind.The passage contains 14 verses and those verses are VERY clear to anyone who can read between the lines. Were you not the one who said earlier on that Jesus did not say follow six or ten of the commandments and that he only said follow the commandments and now you are directing me to the ten commandments given to Moses.Can you now see you are confused? If obeying those commandments in Deut 5:1-21 alone can guarantee anyone eternal life, then why are you a muslim? Why not abandon islam and begin to obey those commandments instead of stressing yourself falling down to pray five times a day and going to the mosque every friday or what else can islam offer you that is more important than eternal life? or do you want to tell me that islam is all about obeying the commandments in Deut 5:1-21? ivoice247: Follow the order of bolding. 1) My mechanic knows those parts of a car in english but he cannot make a complete sentence in english.Can we then say that my mechanic understands english language? 2) You still don't get the issue.Let me give you an example.A baby doesn't know what a spoon means but he knows it is used for eating.That is why you would see a baby playfully put a spoon in his mouth even when there is no food in the spoon.Can he pronounce the word? Does he even know whether it is an English or arabic word?.That is what I mean when I say it is not the actual translation of some words that matter but the message or in depth meaning. 3) I agree those parts cannot be translated into Yoruba.You keep on emphasizing english,but are all cars made in English speaking countries? What about the ones made in Japan or Germany, does the mechanic need to learn Japanese or German to be able to repair those cars?.You see that is the problem.The quran was 'revealed' in arabic so everyone is compelled to understand arabic so as to truly understand it which is not meant to be.Do you now get my point? 4) You are wrong again.A good christian doesn't just depend on what he is taught by his Pastor, he also needs to read the Bible on his own to understand it and thus christianity just like a good student doesn't depend on what he is told by his teachers alone. ivoice247:Funny.Frosbel has dealt adequately with this.I don't need to waste my time on it again. Have a nice day. |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by ivoice247: 5:44pm On Feb 01, 2012 |
frosbel:Of course Virgin Mary had a brother named Aaron who had the same name of another Aaron who was the brother of Moses. The quran states;- Q19v27-28;- At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!"O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" And read the verses of the quran you quoted properly. Non of the verses state that Mary was a sister to Moses, but rather a sister to Harun (Aaron) |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by ivoice247: 6:03pm On Feb 01, 2012 |
tomzman: Because the quran states its been tampered and the way to recognize a book from God that has been tampered is that it would contain many contradictions. As the quran states;- Q5:15 - O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Now has come to you Our Messenger (Muhammad) explaining to you much of that which you used to hide from the Scripture and pass over much. Indeed, there has come to you from Allah a light and a plain book (this Qur'an). Q4:82 - Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein many a contradiction. |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by babs787(m): 6:05pm On Feb 01, 2012 |
@Tidytim & FroSbel @Tdytim, you should have allowed Frosbel to respond rather than helping him/her out but all the same, my response would be addressed to both of you. I am also sorry for my late response, my link was down yesterday as I was about sending it. Please do enjoy. The following 2 plagiarised stories , courtesy of James M. Arlandson Hold it, in case you missed it, this is what your brother Frosbel posted: Secondly , you guys seem to have lost all shame, you call a book corrupt, yet you plagiarise it, quote it more than the Quran and try to interpose Muhammad between it's contradictory verses I would not do a re-poste because of space and I also found out that you response went contrary to what your brother initially posted. BTW, Is the apocalyse you are hidind behind is part of your bible and kindly do the needful by telling me where it is in the bible and I would go check it up dude. I thought you would be smart enough to bring me a verse from your bible where you would claim plagiarization.
Good of you  But these were the very words of Jesus , making a distinction between , the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Preach to them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is different from TRINITY. Mathematically, 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 but spiritually or in the christian world: 1 + 1 + 1 = 1. Gos is God, son is God, Holy sprit is God yet they are not equal. Jesus still cannot do anything on his own without consultng God hence his statement in John 10 v 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. Also if Jesus is God, he would not be saying this statement: ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." Mark 10:18)" Also Jesus never HEARD NOR SUPPORTED TRINITY when he was alive: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. Deuteronomy 6:4 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Mark 12:29 Quote You may have a look at this please: In "The Dictionary of the Bible," John L. McKenzie, S.J., p. 899 bearing the Nihil Obstat, Imprimatur, and Imprimi Potest (official Church seals of approval), we read: "THE TRINITY OF GOD IS DEFINED BY THE CHURCH AS THE BELIEF THAT IN GOD ARE THREE PERSONS WHO SUBSIST IN ONE NATURE. THAT BELIEF AS SO DEFINED WAS REACHED ONLY IN THE 4th AND 5th CENTURIES AD AND HENCE IS NOT EXPLICITLY AND FORMALLY A BIBLICAL BELIEF. This polytheistic (believing in more than one god) Trinitarianism was intertwined with Greek religion and philosophy and slowly worked its way into Christian thought and creeds some 300 years after Jesus. The idea of "God the Son" is Babylonian paganism and mythology that was grafted into Christianity. Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third century Church in Carthage, was the first to use the word "Trinity" when he put forth the theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one being of substance with the Father. [/b] The Jews also reject the trinity, in addition to the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Corinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians never know about trinity doctrine at all. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus (peace be upon him) as a prophet of God and against the trinity. [b] John 1:49-50, "Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel." 50 Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You shall see greater things than these." This does not point to TRINITY Nathaniel calls Jesus the son of God and Jesus does not correct him. Jesus affirms Nathaniel's belief. Brother, Son of God means Servant of God in Hebrew. The below bible verses also showed same: In King James Version, we have this Acts 3:26 - Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. While in the New King James version we have this: Acts 3:26 - To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning every one of you away from his iniquities. So, you could see that Son of God is also Servant of God
That does not mean that he is God. Jesus calls himself the Son of God. Read my response up. Son and Servant are used interchangeably in Hebrew. THE FATHER Father You even nailed yourself here . Jesus said to my 'FATHER and also my God meaning there is somebody superior to him in which he is reporting to and could never be equal because he seek things from Him.Jn.10:30: " I and my father are one" Why do u pick only that verse and ignored the rest. The above verse is clearly a later insertion. Read the full verses for understanding: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I (John 14:28) 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one You may explain this to me: John 17:20-22 "That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE". HOLY SPIRIT Please your above post did not refer to TRINITY and if you want us to discuss COMFORTER, let me know please and we do that separately. How did almighty God the Father refer to Christ Jesus his SON I have explained SON/SERVANT relationship to you but the above does not support TRINITY. |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by Nobody: 6:08pm On Feb 01, 2012 |
ivoice247: My goodness , you have not only murdered the Quran , you have just told a huge LIE. Can you not see how many lies you must tell just to hold on to a lie. Mary had no brother called Aaron, even the Arab Christians agree with this, how on earth did Muhammad , who lived about 600 years after Christ , know better than the biblical and Jewish prophets , apostles , church fathers , Arab Christians, who ALL knew that it was Miriam and not Mary who had brothers called Moses and Aaron. Mary and Aaron live thousands of years apart from each other! Muhammad confused her with Miriam the sister of Moses and Aaron. Pal , if you are gonna tell a lie, try telling a better one |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by ivoice247: 6:39pm On Feb 01, 2012 |
frosbel:Are you telling me that there is only one person named Aaron that lived throughout history. Can't any other person bear that name again? The quran clearly states one Aaron who was not a prophet as the brother of Virgin Mary and another Aaron who was a prophet and the brother of Moses. What's so difficult to understand here? |
| Re: The Fraud of Islam by Nobody: 6:54pm On Feb 01, 2012 |
ivoice247: And you are right , Aaron was not a prophet he was a priest. Moses was a prophet. Again, even the Arab Christians find this rather absurd, so let's leave it here, to avoid causing you further embarrassment. |
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