coogar:


it's a combination of both - he did well considering the circumstance in the defence and arsënal were hopeless in the attack. their profligacy in front of goal was a disgrace.

So your thoughts on Welbeck?
For me I think he can't add anything to any side.
Giroud does in 15 minutes what he couldn't in nearly 100.
Alex is Sanchez for all his talent cant carry thr offensive burden alone.
Oxlade-chamberlain was exceptional but you cannot rely on those names to win you games and consequently titles.
Wilshere is a dunce for trying to walk in the ball when clear on goal.

Wenger will not be taken seriously till he invests in a top striker.

coogar:


it's a combination of both - he did well considering the circumstance in the defence and arsënal were hopeless in the attack. their profligacy in front of goal was a disgrace.

So your thoughts on Welbeck?
For me I think he can't add anything to any side.
Giroud does in 15 minutes what he couldn't in nearly 100.
Alex is Sanchez for all his talent cant carry thr offensive burden alone.
Oxlade-chamberlain was exceptional but you cannot rely on those names to win you games and consequently titles.
Wilshere is a dunce for trying to walk in the ball when clear on goal.

Wenger will not be taken seriously till he invests in a top striker.

coogar:


if we had all those 5 defenders fit, there's no way we would start 3 at the back. our formation would be 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2. his hands sea tied if 5 of his first team defenders are injured.

agreed. though it is to be noted that he used the 3 at b the back system to the max in Nraxil over the summer.

Wenger and his boys deserve some serious lashes for finding it so hard to score against a team fielding two rookie central defenders.Wenger won just one out of the eight games he played against the traditional top teams last season,he's towing that disgraceful lane already for this season too.
Anyway,ManU got lucky today because Arsenal's attackers decided to dish out a lesson in nediocre attacking football.
I expect the next two games to roll in some precious six points.

#GGMU

coogar:


you keep avoiding the question.
how would you have set up your team with 4 senior defenders injured? would you play rooney & RVP in the defence just to make sure you have 4 defenders?



moyes never won in any of the top 4 ground in his 12 years career in england. the difference is now clear that moyes is a baby where van gaal is concerned.



we had 4 defenders fit that day. even after smalling got sent off, we still had rafael, shaw, paddy to rally at the death of that match.



it's the way we play.....
slow, lethargic, poor ball control, etc. we don't pass the ball until we are closed down completely. even some of our technical players don't know how to turn away from tackles & marking. we invite those injuries with the way we play.

- - - - - - - - de Gea - - - - - - - -

Val - Small - McNair - Shaw

- - - - Herrera - - Carrick - - - -

di Maria - Fellaini - Rooney

- - - - - - - van Persie - - - - - - -

a line up similar to this would have served better. the first half was Glo Premier League quality & it is better imagined if that was the performance against City!

StarBoard:

So your thoughts on Welbeck?
For me I think he can't add anything to any side. Giroud does in 15 minutes what he couldn't in nearly 100.
Alex is Sanchez for all his talent cant carry thr offensive burden alone.
Oxlade-chamberlain was exceptional but you cannot rely on those names to win you games and consequently titles.
Wilshere is a dunce for trying to walk in the ball when clear on goal.

but the game had opened up by the time giroud came to the party. you can't really compare the intensity arsenal had by then to what welbz started with. danny had series of chances but they were all half-chances....wilshere had their best chance & de gea was equal to the task.

Wenger will not be taken seriously till he invests in a top striker.

they have sanogo.

agreed. though it is to be noted that he used the 3 at b the back system to the max in Nraxil over the summer.

you could argue shortage of defenders prompted that 3-5-2 then too. rafael was injured, shaw was too fat & rojo wasn't our player then.

StarBoard:

So your thoughts on Welbeck?

He works hard no doubt about that,but he's too blunt in front of goal.I foresee a situation where he will be shunted to the left side of the attack so as to accomodate the sharper Giroud.

StarBoard:

agreed. though it is to be noted that he used the 3 at b the back system to the max in Braxil over the summer.

He had Ron Vlaar's experience and Martins Indi's composure and grit to his advantage back in the summer.Also,De Jong shielded those guys with his life.He doesn't have players as good as those right now.

coogar:


you keep avoiding the question.
how would you have set up your team with 4 senior defenders injured? would you play rooney & RVP in the defence just to make sure you have 4 defenders?



moyes never won in any of the top 4 ground in his 12 years career in england. the difference is now clear that moyes is a baby where van gaal is concerned.



we had 4 defenders fit that day. even after smalling got sent off, we still had rafael, shaw, paddy to rally at the death of that match.



it's the way we play.....
slow, lethargic, poor ball control, etc. we don't pass the ball until we are closed down completely. even some of our technical players don't know how to turn away from tackles & marking. we invite those injuries with the way we play.

The same moyes that consistently destroyed many top 4 teams at everton.
Keep making excuses for van gaal.
The old fool already changed his manure resuscitation time-table from 3 months to 3 years after spending over £150m.
Jokers.

SailorXY:

- - - - - - - - de Gea - - - - - - - -

Val - Small - McNair - Shaw

- - - - Herrera - - Carrick - - - -

di Maria - Fellaini - Rooney

- - - - - - - van Persie - - - - - - -

a line up similar to this would have served better. the first half was Glo Premier League quality & it is better imagined if that was the performance against City!

we would have shipped in at least 4 goals with that formation.....di maria has a problem tracking back & valencia isn't a proper defender. the plan was to load up the midfield, absorb the pressure and counter in a clinical fashion.

formation had nothing to do with our inability to keep possession. we kept inviting pressure by trying to play out from the back when there's a much surer direct route(de gea to fellaini's chest). 4-2-3-1 will not improve ball possession.....the players have to be better than that with the ball.

F117AA:
The same moyes that consistently destroyed many top 4 teams at everton.
Keep making excuses for van gaal.
The old fool already changed his manure resuscitation time-table from 3 months to 3 years after spending over £150m.
Jokers.

any idiòtic manager can win at home....what was his result away from home?

coogar:

but the game had opened up by the time giroud came to the party. you can't really compare the intensity arsenal had by then to what welbz started with. danny had series of chances but they were all half-chances....wilshere had their best chance & de gea was equal to the task.

Welbeck is the headless chicken that never grew or evolved.
He'll never be first option if everybody else is fit.
Watch Wenger ditch him wide now that Giroud is back. Practically the same reason he legt United.

StarBoard:

Welbeck is the headless chicken that never grew or evolved.
He'll never be first option if everybody else is fit.
Watch Wenger ditch him wide now that Giroud is back. Practically the same reason he legt United.

he's scored plenty of goals for them. welbeck can play just behind a striker. that's his best position actually. his ball retention in the final third is very good & no one recovers the ball better than him. that's where wenger should play him - i agree with your general point that he's not clinical enough though.

SailorXY:

depends on available players by then
these days fit players get knocks just in time for a previously injured colleague's return

hull and stoke will be coming to Old trafford be4 we travel to southampton...ntng less than 7points abeg 4 those 3matches

coogar:

we would have shipped in at least 4 goals with that formation.....di maria has a problem tracking back & valencia isn't a proper defender. the plan was to load up the midfield, absorb the pressure and counter in a clinical fashion.
formation had nothing to do with our inability to keep possession. we kept inviting pressure by trying to play out from the back when there's a much surer direct route(de gea to fellaini's chest). 4-2-3-1 will not improve ball possession.....the players have to be better than that with the ball.

SailorXY's formation is what I would go with. I also don't think we would have shipped in 4goals with that formation. Maybe we could have reverted to the 352 formation when shaw got injured. That would have been understandable, not starting with it.

Di Maria actually helped out defensively today. Although Arsenal were chasing the game, but we looked better when we reverted to 4 at the back with Blackett Smalling McNair and valencia with fletching covering, even though we were under pressure we seemed to have been able to work the ball out more comfortably for a counter.

Its unfortunate Rooney was called off and Di Maria fluffed that chance, there were other times we broke out and caused them problems.

The 352 is new and the players are not exactly comfy with it. It shows in there lack of belief when in possession.

This win just makes the formation look good cause its our first away win and we did it at Arsenal.

Arsenal (4-3-2-1): Szczesny 5 (Martinez 59 - 5),
Chambers 6, Mertesacker 6, Monreal 5.5, Gibbs
5.5, Arteta 6.5, Ramsey 5.5 (Giroud 77 - 6.5),
Sanchez 6.5, Wilshere 7 (Cazorla 55 - 6), Oxlade-
Chamberlain 7.5, Welbeck 6.5.
Subs not used: Rosicky, Podolski, Flamini,
Bellerin.
Goal: Giroud 90+5
Booked: Cazorla, Giroud
Manager: Arsene Wenger 5
Man Utd: De Gea 8, Smalling 7, McNair 7,
Blackett 6.5, Shaw 5 (Young 16 - 7) (Fletcher 89 -
6), Carrick 7, Valencia 7, Fellaini 6.5, Rooney 7,
Di Maria 6.5, Van Persie 5.5 (Wilson 75 - 6).
Subs not used: Lindegaard, Mata, Januzaj, Ander
Herrera.
Booked: Wilson
Goals: Gibbs OG (56), Rooney 85
Manager: Louis van Gaal - 7.5
MOM: De Gea
Att: 60,074
Referee: Mike Dean (Wirral) - 7

Chris Smalling today: 3 aerial duels won, 5 interceptions, 18
clearances and 3 blocks.

codedguy1:


SailorXY's formation is what I would go with. I also don't think we would have shipped in 4goals with that formation. Maybe we could have reverted to the 352 formation when shaw got injured. That would have been understandable, not starting with it.

Di Maria actually helped out defensively today. Although Arsenal were chasing the game, but we looked better when we reverted to 4 at the back with Blackett Smalling McNair and valencia with fletching covering, even though we were under pressure we seemed to have been able to work the ball out more comfortably for a counter.

Its unfortunate Rooney was called off and Di Maria fluffed that chance, there were other times we broke out and caused them problems.

The 352 is new and the players are not exactly comfy with it. It shows in there lack of belief when in possession.

This win just makes the formation look good cause its our first away win and we did it at Arsenal.

We take each game as it comes and hope the injury situation gets better. No point looking at a stretch of games.

Young,fellani,and De Gea. Best players.
I don't if it us that isn't feeding RVP the ball but something is wrong.

De Gea-omo dada lomo yen o

coogar:


he's scored plenty of goals for them. welbeck can play just behind a striker. that's his best position actually. his ball retention in the final third is very good & no one recovers the ball better than him. that's where wenger should play him - i agree with your general point that he's not clinical enough though.

he does not possess that final touch a Costa, Aguero, even Sanchez, even Rooney, even an off-form van Persie or Hernandez for that matter to be a top striker.
Arsrne Wenger must be a hypocrite to think that he had added a new dimension to Arsenal by signing dithering danny.
Sure he's scored against the likes of hull galatasaray and aston villa but he can never be a top class striker despite his other attributes.

but away from that do you think Fellaini, for all his Importance to United thus far is inhibiting our forward play to some degree?
id like your thoughts on that given that our forwards seem to be less involved since he began his run of games in the side. I agree that the first step in winning games is to tighten it up at the back which seems to be the case since his inclusion (or so it would seem) but given that United has slways been noted as an attsck minded side over the years, our forward play still leaves a lot to be desired in my view.

Fellani is a typical moyes product.. he is not the kind of player you can trust to make a 1-2 pass or a through or any pass that could leave defenders around d 18 grassping at straws. he has a tendency of turning towards valencia or dimaria once he gets the ball.. trying to play that annoying moyes' safe ball pattern. This is Manchester united afro gangster.. if u gonna push.. please look up, he keeps thinking hes still in everton where half their goals would come from a pull out from the wing. Hes got a great height and stamina.. but if we must be clinical attackers,step in herrera.

joeace2020:
Fellani is a typical moyes product.. he is not the kind of player you can trust to make a 1-2 pass or a through or any pass that could leave defenders around d 18 grassping at straws. he has a tendency of turning towards valencia or dimaria once he gets the ball.. trying to play that annoying moyes' safe ball pattern. This is Manchester united afro gangster.. if u gonna push.. please look up, he keeps thinking hes still in everton where half their goals would come from a pull out from the wing. Hes got a great height and stamina.. but if we must be clinical attackers,step in herrera.

He is here to win the ball not thread passes through 5 people

StarBoard:

he does not possess that final touch a Costa, Aguero, even Sanchez, even Rooney, even an off-form van Persie or Hernandez for that matter to be a top striker.
Arsrne Wenger must be a hypocrite to think that he had added a new dimension to Arsenal by signing dithering danny.
Sure he's scored against the likes of hull galatasaray and aston villa but he can never be a top class striker despite his other attributes.
but away from that do you think Fellaini, for all his Importance to United thus far is inhibiting our forward play to some degree?
id like your thoughts on that given that our forwards seem to be less involved since he began his run of games in the side. I agree that the first step in winning games is to tighten it up at the back which seems to be the case since his inclusion (or so it would seem) but given that United has slways been noted as an attsck minded side over the years, our forward play still leaves a lot to be desired in my view.

important observations there

this Fellaini's situation is a dilemma for sure. our forward play has taken a dip but his presence has added that much needed presence both in defence & attack, rescuing some vital points along the way.
I believe we were overrun in midfield yesterday mainly because of Carrick. there is no way a Carrick/Fellaini partnership can yield much. the lack of pace & agility from the pair is recipe for disaster, Moyes found that out the hard way against City @ the Etihad & I was surprised van Gaal was giving it a trial.

Carrick himself is losing his passing range that kept possession or launched attacks by the snap of a finger, he should be allowed to leave @ the end of this season. what this shows is that van Gaal must still look @ two midfielders in the summer.

Fellaini won't do much in the pivot (unless his partner has great technique & the agility of a horse), he will be relevant pressing from the front & in attack/defence of setpieces. he strikes a balance somewhat in between & van Gaal should find the best way/games to feature his azz for now.

In summary Carrick is past it and Fellaini is at best a situational/squad player for any team with title ambitions.

Either we bring Herrera back into the starting eleven and drop a Fellaini or Carrick, or we drop RVP, shift Rooney uptop and play Mata or even Januzaj. We are no where near constructive enough going forward and luck along with DDG will only take us so far. Unlike most I don't see the next few games as certain wins at all. Hull maybe, but Stoke, Southampton and Liverpool won't be easy going by our current form and we won't be able to soak it up and counter against these sides, we will have to break them down.

No one will say it, but Di Maria is quite underwhelming for a British record signing, flashes here and there, but its clear he can't put this side on his back going forward, whether he is played wide or centrally. Our present set up where we are trying to rely on him isn't working. He needs help.

With the present injury situation I can't even attempt to name a back 4 beyond DDG. But in midfield and attack, I feel it is important we find a way to keep some combination of at least 3 of Herrera, Mata, Di Maria, Rooney in the midfield and attacking positions.

@montelik
We've all been saying how mediocre Maria has been so far,

I haven't heard any news about Shaw is the injury a serious one ?

Fellaini has been decent so far; giving us the steel we so needed but he is better when played upfront.

We had a perfect replacement but we allowed him leave for free.

Pogba!!!

we need to buy a new right back,2 central defenders n Kelvin Strootman in January n sell Jones n smalling...



We also need our players back from d injury table b4 d festive period cos by den we will be averaging a match every 3 days till January

^ me thinks Smalling just needs to gets his confidence back, improve on his ball retention and distribution and he will make a good CB. He was immense yesterday along with McNair, Blackett was poo all through.

who saw this yestaday?

afrodoc:
In summary Carrick is past it and Fellaini is at best a situational/squad player for any team with title ambitions.

Succinctly put...

As we know, fellaini is not a CMF - he simply lacks the qualities to perform effectively in that role. Aside his goal at westbrom and the supposed "man - marking" of fab4, his Afro has been more visible than his positive contributions to the team.

LVG's persistent decision to freeze Herrera out completely, is baffling to say the least.

montelik:
Either we bring Herrera back into the starting eleven and drop a Fellaini or Carrick, or we drop RVP, shift Rooney uptop and play Mata or even Januzaj. We are no where near constructive enough going forward and luck along with DDG will only take us so far. Unlike most I don't see the next few games as certain wins at all. Hull maybe, but Stoke, Southampton and Liverpool won't be easy going by our current form and we won't be able to soak it up and counter against these sides, we will have to break them down.

No one will say it, but Di Maria is quite underwhelming for a British record signing, flashes here and there, but its clear he can't put this side on his back going forward, whether he is played wide or centrally. Our present set up where we are trying to rely on him isn't working. He needs help.

With the present injury situation I can't even attempt to name a back 4 beyond DDG. But in midfield and attack, I feel it is important we find a way to keep some combination of at least 3 of Herrera, Mata, Di Maria, Rooney in the midfield and attacking positions.

Bros di maria became only ineffective when van gaal ditched the former midfield of blind, herrera,mata,rooney.

That midfield was creative although it left our defence weak!

Lol

SailorXY:

important observations there
this Fellaini's situation is a dilemma for sure. our forward play has taken a dip but his presence has added that much needed presence both in defence & attack, rescuing some vital points along the way.
I believe we were overrun in midfield yesterday mainly because of Carrick. there is no way a Carrick/Fellaini partnership can yield much. the lack of pace & agility from the pair is recipe for disaster, Moyes found that out the hard way against City @ the Etihad & I was surprised van Gaal was giving it a trial.

Maybe Carrick was thr reason we were overun yesterday but I think we should pause on the criticism a little bit.
He's been out since July and when he returned it was as a makeshift centre back. He's bern mostly used as a CB since his return.
I dont think he was used in the middle at the Etihad.
But I do agree that the inclusion of both players slows our play considerably irrespective of whe re they play.

SailorXY:


Carrick himself is losing his passing range that kept possession or launched attacks by the snap of a finger, he should be allowed to leave @ the end of this season. what this shows is that van Gaal must still look @ two midfielders in the summer.
Fellaini won't do much in the pivot (unless his partner has great technique & the agility of a horse), he will be relevant pressing from the front & in attack/defence of setpieces. he strikes a balance somewhat in between & van Gaal should find the best way/games to feature his azz for now.

Which means we need more athletic/mobile players in the middle who will link attacks. Now im not sure if Herrera is the answer to that given that he didnt do much when he was last used vs West Brom.

Dadehmola:

Succinctly put...
As we know, fellaini is not a CMF - he simply lacks the qualities to perform effectively in that role. Aside his goal at westbrom and the supposed "man - marking" of fab4, his Afro has been more visible than his positive contributions to the team.
LVG's persistent decision to freeze Herrera out completely, is baffling to say the least.

Not so sure this is correct about Fellaini.

Fellaini was above average against City when we played a man light
He alsodid well yesterday as well and played a part in our opener.

Herrera's last game for United was actually an indictment on his £30million sign on fee till he was hauled off and replaced by, you guessed it, Fellaini.