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Nairaland Forum / Entertainment / Sports / European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion (8710651 Views)
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Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Nihilist: 3:33pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
coogar: I have honestly never in my life heard such a foolish utterance before. Mata is not a playmaker, but Oscar is? |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Dadehmola: 3:33pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
Nihilist: Yeah... If you were asked to pick the player who defined the word "playmaking" and you had to choose between him and mata ( during his supposed top class "playmaking" at Chelsea),who would be your choice? |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Nihilist: 3:36pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
Dadehmola: Riquelme was the daddy of all number 10s, the king of Enganches and I would obviously pick Riquelme over Mata(Subject to tactical tweak of course) But that's not saying much....Robben is one of the best wingers in the world, but I would still pick Ronaldo over him so.... |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by coogar: 3:36pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
Nihilist: go easy on her..... for a female, she tried. Nihilist: riquelme's biggest criticism was also his reluctance to track back & get his shorts dirty but he's a brilliant player. i would choose him over mata too cos of his dead ball delivery & accurate through-balls. he's one of the best to do it.
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Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 3:38pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
coogar: I didnt pay attention to this before. Carrick was dominated by team mates in other stats excpet passing. coogar: I JUST GOT TO SEE THIS NOW. I have told you that the wingers were very busy and they were the set piece takers. The following tells it all. Passes completed. Rooney almost tied Carrick (our top passer) in very many matches i listed here (one by one) few weeks ago. I also showed he was one of our best short passers. He wouldn't have achieved that from the number 9. Accurate Long balls: Rooney had one accurate long ball every 15 minutes. Carrick every 14 mins. Among the regular players, Rooney was 3rd behind Scholes and Carrick. Even Giggs had in every 24 minutes. Berba had every 171 minutes. You can see the difference. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Shirley07: 3:41pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
coogar:Nope. Chelsea team had players pulling up their weight in their CL campaign whereas City players always goes on holiday everytime they notice they have CL games but the difference is, Silva still thrive in that team whereas Mata becomes useless despite his team mates' effort. Also, Mata and Silva has had more than 1 encounter when Mata was at Chelsea and you know what happened? The usual Mata's style against good teams- becomes invisible. That said, I don't know why I was wasting my time arguing with you on Saint loss against Liverpool when it was their 1st game of the season, especially after the drama they went through in the transfer window when so many of their players left. No sane person would even question their loss in that game when so many new players were just acclimatizing to their new club. As for Morgan, he's a fine player wanted by Arsenal during the window and is Arsenal not a top club? He's even got into the french national team which is also a top team. That speaks of his fantastic ability.. As for Oscar, he's a fantastic little player. I was first enchanted with him when he played for the Brazilian team in their friendlies against Argentina and England in preparation for the olympics. I even wanted Manutd to sign him. Classy little player, better than that useless fraud. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by coogar: 3:45pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
elampiro: to be a playmaker, you get the most passes cos other team mates look up to you to do something with the ball. carrick collects it from the centre-halves & distribute with accuracy to the players that will cause havoc.
how did the ball get to the wingers - were they the ones taking them from de gea or carrick? how did the entire play also bypass rooney - he had the lowest chance creation stats in a list that included young, valencia & nani.
rooney played many games that season - having many passes was expected if you play 34 league games - that doesn't disprove the fact that he was not in the hole. united played 4-4-2 that season.
accurate long balls include set plays too. van persie wasn't in united that season & rooney took many set plays that year. you still don't know how to read stats. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 3:45pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
coogar: * I differentiated them. May be you didn't want to understand. * Rooney did not under hit the pass. Rooney gave a precise sexy pass for Di Maria to score goal of the season. * What has blocked shot got to do? A midfielder should have blocked shots than number 9s. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Shirley07: 3:51pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
leggo:Shift jor. Messi that went to waste as soon as his mum and dad (Xaviesta) started to decline. Do you watch City 2-0 loss to Barca in the CL last season? Silva was the best player on the pitch in that game. Hands down. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by coogar: 3:51pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
elampiro: go home & learn what it takes to be a DLP.
something that many pundits pointed out after i made mention of it here.....rooney made a bad pass to di maria. this is one of the easiest pass to make - di maria was right in front of rooney - and fat rooney almost messed the pass up.
frequent blocked shots means predictability. everyone knows what rooney will do once he gets the ball in opponents' area. he has no variation to his play to dummy his markers & evade last-ditch blocks.....he just shoots like a zombie & ruins the chance. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 3:57pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
coogar: You described passing not creativity. coogar: Everyone knows Rooney play diagonal passes. The play didn't bypass Rooney because he always had second or third highest passing stats in our matches. I have showed this before. I even showed where he had more passes than Carrick when they played for 90 mins. coogar: I have given you per minute figures. Rooney was among our top passers. I will find time to give this to you again. coogar: You will have to prove this. Rooney had over 5 accurate long balls per match. Nani, Young, Giggs were taking our set plays. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 4:03pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
coogar: Hahaha, that was a perfect pass. Any further force should have sent Di Maria on collusion with two defenders. But Rooney gave him a pass with an option to score or free Falcao with the goal keeper. * I have seen Rooney tuned 180 to deceive players and set Herrera free on the edge of the box, but Herrera has a weak shot. I saw him turn many times against City, sending players the wrong direction. Even in our last match. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Shirley07: 4:03pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
coogar:Dunno what you're talking about. Oscar had 80% pass success rate in that game. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 4:05pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
Talsima: Already discussed. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 4:07pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
Talsima: Talsima: The above states it all. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Shirley07: 4:08pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
Nihilist:You were the one that don Mata the playmaking cap? A player that was rarely found in the central midfield for Chelsea was their playmaker? It seems something dey eat for ya head. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Dadehmola: 4:09pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
Nihilist: I don't think the Ronaldo logic cuts it here cos Ronaldo's numbers are more impressive than robben's. Why would you choose a riquelme who's key numbers weren't as impressive as Mata's? |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by coogar: 4:10pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
elampiro: so why did a football pundit say this?
so rooney's 5 yard pass to di maria was more difficult than mata's pass to rooney leading to RVP's goal last night? Shirley07: that was the half time report..... so oscar went on to complete 80% by full time but mata completed 91% of his passes at full time. so we ask again - who's the better passer of the ball? |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by leggo: 4:13pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
Shirley07:this xaviesta line is cliche, the playmaking aspect of messi's game has been grossly understated all of Barca's best moves have him at the heart of it. Please stop arguing like you work for NTA. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 4:14pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
coogar: You have started quoting comments from those haters who were trying to make case for Rooney to be dropped. Thank God no one listen to them. That was a magnificent pass. Absolutely fantastic. Mata was not in motion with the ball, Rooney was. I will close my eyes to make that Mata's pass. Go and watch women junior world cup, you will see better passes. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by coogar: 4:18pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
elampiro: your argument is like that of a villager - so because rooney posted high number of passes in 11/12 means he operated in the hole? how do you explain this, then? 2.4 key pass per game, 13 assists - valencia 2.3 key pass per game, 10 assists - nani 1.8 key pass per game , 8 assists - giggs 1.7 key pass per game , 7 assists - young 1.5 key pass per game , 4 assists - rooney 1.1 key pass per game , 4 assists - welbeck so all our wingers with their limited number of appearances managed to post more key passes/game than rooney in 11/12 & you still continue to lie rooney played in the hole? elampiro: mata wasn't in motion when he put rooney through? are you blind? was the first pass not from a counter attack that mata started & rooney messed the cross up? if you can close your eyes to make the mata pass to rooney then rooney is a disgrace for failing to find van persie in the box. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 4:26pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
coogar: Key pass doesn't tell anything. Our wingers were involved in set plays as well as receiving diagonal passes from Rooney. Long passes from Scholes and Rooney too. * How do you explain this? Rooney had more passes than Carrick against Bolton, had a last man clearance and scored a hatrick. Yet he was the number 9. . A number 9 equaled Carrick in number of passes. * I am also waiting for you to prove Rooney's 5 long balls per match were from corner kicks. * I will also like you to prove that corner kicks are long passes. We learn every day. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Shirley07: 4:26pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
coogar:Yet Mourinho, a top coach at that says otherwise. You need to watch more Chelsea games rather than look at stats. Stats doesn't say everything in a game. Even now, the playmaking duties isn't Oscar's job, that's Fabregas' duty but still, he still does it. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Nihilist: 4:27pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
Dadehmola: [size=18pt]EHN?[/size] Post the Key numbers here for comparison. Use Riquelme's stats at El Submarino as that was his best time in Europe |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 4:28pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
coogar: You were talking about Mata's pass to RVP. Mata pass to Rooney is seen every week in the EPL when a defence plays high, it becomes easy. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by coogar: 4:33pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
elampiro: i was talking about the world class skill to get it to rooney & the selfless attitude & self control to give it to RVP. if mata pass to rooney is seen every week, how come rooney cannot deliver a simpler pass into the box when van persie was waiting at the far post? falcao delivered it on a plate for RVP at leicester in a similar position. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by coogar: 4:38pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
elampiro: key pass doesn't tell anything? so what's rooney's function in the hole? scratching his balls?
what's the meaning of number-9? we played 4-4-2 against bolton - who was number 9 when falcao & RVP were the strikers in the early part of the season? www.nairaland.com/attachments/1944712_image_jpeg9f360c5ab7736510df54c882e9dbf188 show us how rooney was in the hole in this formation?
if it's completed, it's a pass! |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 4:41pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
coogar: Rooney's pass to RVP was poorly executed. It happens. Just as RVP agonizingly shot wide what should have been a tap in from Val's pass. The way you over stress RVP and Mata's highlights sometimes baffles me. All the while RVP was wasting our chances in the first ten matches, you weren't giving us gif. Now you try so hard to make something out of the ordinary. Some of the highlights are just normal things in football. It might warrant a praise, but it shouldn't be over stressed. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Shirley07: 4:50pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
coogar:When I say Playmakers makes incisive and penetrative passes, you think it's child play. Their job is to split wall of midfield into two through their passing and intelligent movement. They're also the one required to switch play with long passes. What am I saying here? I'm saying playmakers make harder and risky passes than the attackers whose job is just to see if a pass is on and then, pass to create. But if the pass isn't on, they continue their short passing game compared to the playmakers who must find way through the wall of the midfield by fire by force. And it's not possible for a player to have 45% pass success in the 1st half and then come up with 80% pass success at full. There must be a mistake somewhere. |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Nobody: 4:57pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
elampiro:ordinary ke? seems uv not re-watched the match highlights, Liverpool's keeper already dived thinking that leg movement was for a shot on goal, thereby creating a free n empty goal post |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 5:03pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
coogar: * In Barzail, RVP was 9 for Netherlands while Robben operated far behind him, more like an attacking midfieder. That wasn't too 9s. So you can't say Rooney and Chicha played as two 9s. That was even with Sneidjer in the number 10. But in this case, Rooney was our only 10 while Chicha was 9. * Your chat is nonsense. I have proven many times that it is hardly consistent with the tactics and formation played in a match. You remeber the case of Ozil, your chart misled us. There were a few more. Zonal marking is a better representation of what transpired in matches. * Lastly, I will like to see the 5 completed corner kicks per match from Rooney. You have players corner kick stats for our season of 2011/12. Why not enlighten us and settle this case. I put it to you that Rooney did not make those long balls from corner kicks. They were made from the deep. Wayne Rooney: Accurate Long balls 181, Inaccurate long balls 47. Ryan Giggs ALB 60 ILB 40 Rooney wouldnt have completed 80% of his corner kicks while Giggs completes only 60% of his long balls . |
Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Shirley07: 5:04pm On Dec 15, 2014 |
leggo:Playmaking indeed. Why don't you say he was the Xaviesta himself? Mtchew. If you're talking of Messi's creativity, no one is disputing that fact but hello, creativity isn't playmaking. This has been discussed to death on the thread, this is what happens when kid jump into arguement uninvited. Anyway, no one is compairing both players as they are different players with different skillsets but it's quite naive to lump Messi into category of players that orchestrate play. |
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